aristoenigma
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How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:57 pm

I was wondering how active the business side of KLM gets as the two or three year horizon for the 747-400 fleet retirement nears. Is it a given that they will fly as KLM birds until retired or is there a sweet spot for the balance sheet planners to get something sooner than later while switching to new aircraft? There are 15 planes including 3 relatively new freighters and a bunch of Combis and Pax.
 
KICT
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:30 pm

The freighters will likely live on for quite some time. The passenger versions have no future life.
They will all end up parted-out/scrapped.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:56 pm

KICT wrote:
The freighters will likely live on for quite some time. The passenger versions have no future life.
They will all end up parted-out/scrapped.

I would break it down by age.
See:
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/KLM-active-b747.htm

The 2003 and 2004 delivery freighters have many years ahead as you noted.

The 1989 through 1993 delivery pax and Combi will be scrapped.

The question is about an aftermarket for the 1996 through 2002 combis. IIRC, there is a relatively low cost to make these full freighters. They are young enough that if sold soon, they could find a new home.

But once the current good times in freight end, they are doomed. They won't make it to the next good times in freight rates. So there is a short window to market these 744s in my opinion.

Pax 747 use is getting out the value if the last heavy maintenance check. The sunk cost fallacy. My calculations have more profit per flight for each A359 or 787-10 flight (with the new plane lease costs and assumed low scrap value of the 744).

What will these planes do in 3 years when:
1. Many more 787 and A350s are in the global fleet.
2. The 779 enters their market.
3. The A321LR takes away the near-TATL market.

Lightsaber
You know nothing John Snow.
 
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747classic
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:14 pm

All active aircraft of KLM's 744 PAX and Combi fleet are scheduled to be sold for scrapping.
Some rumours suggest that AF/KL cargo had some offers for PH-MPS a 747-412BCF freighter to be sold at short notice (latest D-check completed approx one year ago)

If the cargo market remains strong : One of the last built KLM combi's could then be converted to a 747-406BDSF by IAI (Bedek) for AF/KL Cargo, replacing PH-MPS.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Dominion301
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:39 pm

What's going to happen with Martinair once the 747s are gone?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:14 pm

One 747 that should be mentioned is the PH-BFB that will be preserved. It was bought by Corendon and after it's retirement at KLM in february 2019 it will be repainted in Corendon colors. It will then be placed in the garden of the Corendon hotel near Badhoevedorp which is a stone throw away from Amsterdam Airport.

The repainting will be done in Rome, which means the aircraft will make one flight in Corendon colors (from Rome back to Amsterdam) before being towed to it's final destination.
 
IWMBH
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:41 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
What's going to happen with Martinair once the 747s are gone?


Nothing yet, the freighter 747's are not effected. But I don't see there future to bright, why keeping the Martinair brand alive when you have KLM cargo?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:50 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
One 747 that should be mentioned is the PH-BFB that will be preserved. It was bought by Corendon and after it's retirement at KLM in february 2019 it will be repainted in Corendon colors. It will then be placed in the garden of the Corendon hotel near Badhoevedorp which is a stone throw away from Amsterdam Airport.

The repainting will be done in Rome, which means the aircraft will make one flight in Corendon colors (from Rome back to Amsterdam) before being towed to it's final destination.

It went to FCO already according to Skyliner-aviation:

Boeing 747 -406 24000 732 PH-BFB KLM Royal Dutch Airlines ferried 02dec18 AMS-FCO, for paint into Corendon Air cs prior display from feb19 at AMS, the Corendon Village Hotel

Michael
 
sonicruiser
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:08 am

I don't think KLM is in any rush to retire its 747's like some other airlines out there. Its strategy is probably more along the lines of BA and QF who want to keep theirs flying and gradually drawdown over a few years rather than all at once.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:24 pm

I recently saw that in early 2018 International Aerospace Group bought the retired KLM 744 Combi PH-BFB/City of Melbourne that had been stored by KLM. Would IAG they be doing anything beyond sourcing parts with that?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:42 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
I don't think KLM is in any rush to retire its 747's like some other airlines out there. Its strategy is probably more along the lines of BA and QF who want to keep theirs flying and gradually drawdown over a few years rather than all at once.


Indeed, two and a half year of gradual drawdown is planned, as of now:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=597241&hilit=klm+747&start=300#p20184937
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
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keesje
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:48 pm

After a few 747-300s were surprizingly sold out of storage and ended up in strange places , back to craddle maintenance documentation had to be provided. KLM became very carefull in getting a few bucks for worn out airframes. They'll avoid the risks.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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thekorean
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:45 pm

Arent some of them combis? Whats replacing those?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:53 pm

The way KLM uses these frames, they’ll be too high time to be worth anything other than parts, or they’ll be needing to undergo a major heavy check that isn’t economical.

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