aristoenigma
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How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:57 pm

I was wondering how active the business side of KLM gets as the two or three year horizon for the 747-400 fleet retirement nears. Is it a given that they will fly as KLM birds until retired or is there a sweet spot for the balance sheet planners to get something sooner than later while switching to new aircraft? There are 15 planes including 3 relatively new freighters and a bunch of Combis and Pax.
 
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KICT
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:30 pm

The freighters will likely live on for quite some time. The passenger versions have no future life.
They will all end up parted-out/scrapped.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:56 pm

KICT wrote:
The freighters will likely live on for quite some time. The passenger versions have no future life.
They will all end up parted-out/scrapped.

I would break it down by age.
See:
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/KLM-active-b747.htm

The 2003 and 2004 delivery freighters have many years ahead as you noted.

The 1989 through 1993 delivery pax and Combi will be scrapped.

The question is about an aftermarket for the 1996 through 2002 combis. IIRC, there is a relatively low cost to make these full freighters. They are young enough that if sold soon, they could find a new home.

But once the current good times in freight end, they are doomed. They won't make it to the next good times in freight rates. So there is a short window to market these 744s in my opinion.

Pax 747 use is getting out the value if the last heavy maintenance check. The sunk cost fallacy. My calculations have more profit per flight for each A359 or 787-10 flight (with the new plane lease costs and assumed low scrap value of the 744).

What will these planes do in 3 years when:
1. Many more 787 and A350s are in the global fleet.
2. The 779 enters their market.
3. The A321LR takes away the near-TATL market.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
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747classic
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:14 pm

All active aircraft of KLM's 744 PAX and Combi fleet are scheduled to be sold for scrapping.
Some rumours suggest that AF/KL cargo had some offers for PH-MPS a 747-412BCF freighter to be sold at short notice (latest D-check completed approx one year ago)

If the cargo market remains strong : One of the last built KLM combi's could then be converted to a 747-406BDSF by IAI (Bedek) for AF/KL Cargo, replacing PH-MPS.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Dominion301
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:39 pm

What's going to happen with Martinair once the 747s are gone?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:14 pm

One 747 that should be mentioned is the PH-BFB that will be preserved. It was bought by Corendon and after it's retirement at KLM in february 2019 it will be repainted in Corendon colors. It will then be placed in the garden of the Corendon hotel near Badhoevedorp which is a stone throw away from Amsterdam Airport.

The repainting will be done in Rome, which means the aircraft will make one flight in Corendon colors (from Rome back to Amsterdam) before being towed to it's final destination.
 
IWMBH
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:41 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
What's going to happen with Martinair once the 747s are gone?


Nothing yet, the freighter 747's are not effected. But I don't see there future to bright, why keeping the Martinair brand alive when you have KLM cargo?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:50 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
One 747 that should be mentioned is the PH-BFB that will be preserved. It was bought by Corendon and after it's retirement at KLM in february 2019 it will be repainted in Corendon colors. It will then be placed in the garden of the Corendon hotel near Badhoevedorp which is a stone throw away from Amsterdam Airport.

The repainting will be done in Rome, which means the aircraft will make one flight in Corendon colors (from Rome back to Amsterdam) before being towed to it's final destination.

It went to FCO already according to Skyliner-aviation:

Boeing 747 -406 24000 732 PH-BFB KLM Royal Dutch Airlines ferried 02dec18 AMS-FCO, for paint into Corendon Air cs prior display from feb19 at AMS, the Corendon Village Hotel

Michael
 
sonicruiser
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Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:08 am

I don't think KLM is in any rush to retire its 747's like some other airlines out there. Its strategy is probably more along the lines of BA and QF who want to keep theirs flying and gradually drawdown over a few years rather than all at once.
 
aristoenigma
Topic Author
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: How active would KLM be in entertaining sales of their 744 fleet as retirement looms?

Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:24 pm

I recently saw that in early 2018 International Aerospace Group bought the retired KLM 744 Combi PH-BFB/City of Melbourne that had been stored by KLM. Would IAG they be doing anything beyond sourcing parts with that?

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