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LAXintl
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2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:14 pm

Orange County is out with its annual slot and seat capacity allocation for John Wayne Airport for the 2019 calendar year.

The 2019 daily departure slot allocation and annual passenger capacity allocation for each carrier is as follows:

Alaska - 17 / 1,664,400
American - 18 / 2,094,048
Compass - 4 / 200,184
Delta - 15 / 1,464,216
FedEx - .726 / 0
Frontier - 2 / 267,180
Horizon - 5 / 416,100
Southwest - 41 / 4,299,700
United - 19 / 2,144,495
UPS - .62 / 0
WestJet - 1 / 89,440

Note:
• 10 AS/QX slots shall to be operated by SkyWest
• 7 DL slots shall be operated by Skywest
• 1 UA slot shall be operated by Skywest

Overall near identical to the 2018 allocation with net-loss of 1 flight by Compass/Delta, and 1 by Southwest, while 2 QX slots moved to AS instead(operated by OO).

There are no new entrant carriers for 2019.

As previous years, County has the ability to allocate 3 hold back slots (typically used for new entrants) that can be instead be allocated to existing carriers by the mid-year point. County states at the moment it intends to allocate one of these to United for summer 2019 with the other pair to be decided at a later date. (typically go to Southwest).

Lastly, County allocates overnight parking spots due limited gate and ramp space. The 2019 allocation is:
AA – 5
AS – 3
DL – 5
CP – 1
UA – 5
WN - 8
This represents a gain of 1 for AS and loss of 1 for DL


Source: County of Orange Airport Division
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janders
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:25 pm

How close is the airport to its annual passenger cap? I know the activity is up YoY.
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golfradio
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:30 pm

With CS300 deliveries starting in 2019, I was hoping AC would restart the route.
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CobaltScar
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:40 pm

So what happened to B6 and the new entrant slots???

This is from 2016:

We’ll be asking the airport to place JetBlue on the airport’s waiting list for slots. There are currently four other airlines interested in serving SNA, putting us fifth in priority on the wait list. In order, the current list is 1) Sun Country; 2) Allegiant; 3) Volaris; and 4) Virgin America.
 
ScottB
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:47 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
So what happened to B6 and the new entrant slots???


LAXintl wrote:
As previous years, County has the ability to allocate 3 hold back slots (typically used for new entrants) that can be instead be allocated to existing carriers by the mid-year point.


If B6 wants new entrant slots, the County is holding back three slots for new entrants. But I doubt they can get an A320 or A321 off SNA's 5,700' runway with an economically viable payload non-stop to FLL, BOS, or JFK.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:52 pm

janders wrote:
How close is the airport to its annual passenger cap? I know the activity is up YoY.

Its awfully close.

The current limit is 10.8mil and in 2017 the airport saw 10.4mil pax. 2018 traffic is up 5.4% YoY.

The airport maintains right to withdraw slots and reduce capacity allocation if it becomes necessary to ensure compliance with the 10.8 million annual passenger limit.

CobaltScar wrote:
So what happened to B6 and the new entrant slots???


If they were on the list, they passed.
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janders
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:55 pm

Not sure having slots at SNA does much for B6. Where would they fly them? LAS, SLC, Bay Area ??

A320 has worse short-field performance than 737s for example. They won't make it on a transcon with a decent load.
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tphuang
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:56 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
So what happened to B6 and the new entrant slots???

This is from 2016:

We’ll be asking the airport to place JetBlue on the airport’s waiting list for slots. There are currently four other airlines interested in serving SNA, putting us fifth in priority on the wait list. In order, the current list is 1) Sun Country; 2) Allegiant; 3) Volaris; and 4) Virgin America.

My guess is that as part of the cuts after Q2 earnings, they are going to wait on SNA until they have an aircraft that can make it to JFK/BOS (A220). Otherwise, they'd have to add some west coast route out of SNA, which we know they don't want to do?
 
tphuang
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:57 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Orange County is out with its annual slot and seat capacity allocation for John Wayne Airport for the 2019 calendar year.

The 2019 daily departure slot allocation and annual passenger capacity allocation for each carrier is as follows:

Alaska - 17 / 1,664,400
American - 18 / 2,094,048
Compass - 4 / 200,184
Delta - 15 / 1,464,216
FedEx - .726 / 0
Frontier - 2 / 267,180
Horizon - 5 / 416,100
Southwest - 41 / 4,299,700
United - 19 / 2,144,495
UPS - .62 / 0
WestJet - 1 / 89,440

Note:
• 10 AS/QX slots shall to be operated by SkyWest
• 7 DL slots shall be operated by Skywest
• 1 UA slot shall be operated by Skywest

Overall near identical to the 2018 allocation with net-loss of 1 flight by Compass/Delta, and 1 by Southwest, while 2 QX slots moved to AS instead(operated by OO).

There are no new entrant carriers for 2019.

As previous years, County has the ability to allocate 3 hold back slots (typically used for new entrants) that can be instead be allocated to existing carriers by the mid-year point. County states at the moment it intends to allocate one of these to United for summer 2019 with the other pair to be decided at a later date. (typically go to Southwest).

Lastly, County allocates overnight parking spots due limited gate and ramp space. The 2019 allocation is:
AA – 5
AS – 3
DL – 5
CP – 1
UA – 5
WN - 8
This represents a gain of 1 for AS and loss of 1 for DL


Source: County of Orange Airport Division

any idea what's the allocation for JetSuitex? I know they are operating about 3 flights a day now to LAS/OAK as well launching a seasonal service to MMH. I wonder if they have restriction for more than that?
 
master14225
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:58 pm

AC should get those 3 slots and do flights to YVR and YYZ. Those hubs have international connection traffic if people want to avoid LAX.
 
nine4nine
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:59 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
So what happened to B6 and the new entrant slots???

This is from 2016:

We’ll be asking the airport to place JetBlue on the airport’s waiting list for slots. There are currently four other airlines interested in serving SNA, putting us fifth in priority on the wait list. In order, the current list is 1) Sun Country; 2) Allegiant; 3) Volaris; and 4) Virgin America.



You’ll possibly see B6 In SNA once the A220 comes online I’d imagine. No way the 320/321 would make this run without a major payload hit and a bunch of blocked out seats.

The A220 will also have a premium offering what what I’ve read and I’d easily see B6 move whatever is left at LGB down to the higher yielding SNA eventually.
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gmcc
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:05 pm

The county held back on new entrants as the total number of passengers allocated to the existing carrier was around 12 million so there currently no room in the 10.8 million passenger cap for new carrier. If all the carrier went out at 90% load factor, which they won't but it could happen , the airport would reach the passenger cap. If that looked like it was going to happen I believe the county has the right to limit the count in the following way.


Section 6 of the Phase 2 Access Plan provides provisions, which permit the County to withdraw operational capacity at such times, on such conditions, and for such reasons as the County, in its sole and exclusive discretion, determines are appropriate to ensure that the MAP limitation is not exceeded during any Plan Year, or for any other reason. Whenever the Airport Director determines that there is a substantial risk that Regularly Scheduled Commercial Users operating at JWA will exceed the MAP limitation during any Plan Year for any reason other than the violation of the Phase 2 Access Plan by any specific Air Carrier or Commuter Carrier, the Airport Director will advise all Air Carriers of recommendations for capacity withdrawals. In formulating and presenting recommendations for capacity withdrawals, the Airport Director will attempt to formulate recommendations which, to the extent practical and feasible: (i) maintain an appropriate level of equity and fairness among all approved users of JWA; (ii) will best serve the interests of the air traveling public using JWA; and (iii) which are consistent with the policies and objectives of the County in its management and operation of JWA.



Although there is no capacity withdrawal priority among the operational categories set forth below, and as further described in Section 6 of the Phase 2 Access Plan, in many circumstances, JWA presently expects that it generally will prefer and recommend capacity withdrawals, to the extent necessary and required, in the following order: (i) Seat Blocks; (ii) Supplemental Authorized Departures; (iii) Supplemental Passenger Capacity; (iv) Regulated ADDs; and then (v) Passenger Capacity. However, if capacity withdrawals are required by the County, any withdrawal recommendations will be structured in a manner that best serves the interests of the County, local communities, and the air traveling public; and the withdrawal will be structured in light of then-existing circumstances, facts and commercial operation patterns at JWA.
full text can be found at the below link
http://cams.ocgov.com/Web_Publisher/Age ... 000877.HTM
 
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LAXintl
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:07 pm

tphuang wrote:
any idea what's the allocation for JetSuitex? I know they are operating about 3 flights a day now to LAS/OAK as well launching a seasonal service to MMH. I wonder if they have a restriction for more than that?


JetSuiteX is not a regular air carrier, they are a public charter. They operate from the ACI Jet FBO.

However, to comply with Noise Ordinance they fall under the banner of a "Commuter Air Carrier" so they are limited to 95,070 pax 2019., but can come and go as a bizjet activity wise.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MIflyer12
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:09 pm

master14225 wrote:
AC should get those 3 slots and do flights to YVR and YYZ. Those hubs have international connection traffic if people want to avoid LAX.


What could AC fly off a 5,700' runway that has the range to YYZ?
 
burnsie28
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:10 pm

Hold on so SNA can tell carriers who can fly the flights?

IE it says 7 of the 15 flights for DL are to be operated by OO. What if DL wanted 9E to fly those routes? Why can't DL operated all 15 at mainline level? But AA can operate all 18 at whatever level they want? Also it's not adding up:

If 7 are to be operated by OO, that would basically mean that Delta is going to lose big on this. Eff Oct 15 DL has 23 flights a day (between OO, CP and DL). According to this they will then have 19 flights (net loss of 4).

With 7 required to be operated by OO now I guess their schedule will look like:

Mainline- 8

3x ATL 757 (drop the 4th flight in favor of JFK)
3x MSP 319
1x DTW 757
1x JFK 73W

SkyWest- 7
5x- SLC (large downgrade, currently all 717's)
2x LAS (net loss 2)

Compass- 4
4x SEA (net loss 1)


Perhaps I am reading it wrong. Slots I get, but putting seat capacities etc seems anti-competitive. Especially with the heavily favored Southwest getting 41 flights. Does the county say, well Southwest you can only fly the -700, no 800's allowed, I guess that would be equivalent to them telling DL/AS/AA etc that some of their flights have to be flown by XXX carrier.
 
tphuang
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:11 pm

LAXintl wrote:
tphuang wrote:
any idea what's the allocation for JetSuitex? I know they are operating about 3 flights a day now to LAS/OAK as well launching a seasonal service to MMH. I wonder if they have a restriction for more than that?


JetSuiteX is not a regular air carrier, they are a public charter. They operate from the ACI Jet FBO.

However, to comply with Noise Ordinance they fall under the banner of a "Commuter Air Carrier" so they are limited to 95,070 pax 2019., but can come and go as a bizjet activity wise.

Is that one way or both ways?
95070 / 365 / 30 = 8.68. I guess they can do 4 flights a day out if both directions are counted. If only going out is counted, they can do 8 flights a day.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:19 pm

I see that WN has a disproportionate amount of flights compared to all the other carriers combined...41 to 81. Is Southwest allowed more flights because they fly mostly intra-California routes? Also, does the County determine flights allocation based on aircraft capacity? DL has several 757s (DTW & ATL) that come in daily and they have less flights than UA, AS and AA.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:20 pm

burnsie28 wrote:
Hold on so SNA can tell carriers who can fly the flights?

Perhaps I am reading it wrong. Slots I get, but putting seat capacities etc seems anti-competitive. Especially with the heavily favored Southwest getting 41 flights. Does the county say, well Southwest you can only fly the -700, no 800's allowed, I guess that would be equivalent to them telling DL/AS/AA etc that some of their flights have to be flown by XXX carrier.


Maybe you missed the point that the airport has a passenger cap - 10.8mil.

Hence airlines are allocated both a slot for a movement and total annual seat capacity limitation.

Its been like this for decades in agreement with airlines and affirmed by Feds and courts.

In regards to DL specifically, yes they will reduce some activity at SNA. This was posted in a recent OAG thread.

tphuang wrote:
Is that one way or both ways?
95070 / 365 / 30 = 8.68. I guess they can do 4 flights a day out if both directions are counted. If only going out is counted, they can do 8 flights a day.


95,070 is total. Enplanements and arrivals.
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LAXintl
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:25 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
I see that WN has a disproportionate amount of flights compared to all the other carriers combined...41 to 81. Is Southwest allowed more flights because they fly mostly intra-California routes? Also, does the County determine flights allocation based on aircraft capacity? DL has several 757s (DTW & ATL) that come in daily and they have less flights than UA, AS and AA.


WN slot holdings are actually way down. Was 49 as recently as 2017.

Historically Southwest has been very willing to backfill any loss in capacity by other airlines and hence grew its slot portfolio over the many years. For example, WN most years will pick up any mid-year allocations of slots not used by other airlines, and even willing to operate slots for brief periods.

Yes the County very much looks at aircraft capacity. They must determine airlines do not over allocate seat capacity and risk busting the 10.8mil cap.
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asteriskceo
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:25 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
I see that WN has a disproportionate amount of flights compared to all the other carriers combined...41 to 81. Is Southwest allowed more flights because they fly mostly intra-California routes? Also, does the County determine flights allocation based on aircraft capacity? DL has several 757s (DTW & ATL) that come in daily and they have less flights than UA, AS and AA.


WN had almost 70 flights per day at their peak and have been forced to cut back almost 50% in their daily departures due to allocations.
 
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UPlog
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:32 pm

SNA one of my fave airports. Super nice and convenient to visit family in OC.

master14225 wrote:
AC should get those 3 slots and do flights to YVR and YYZ. Those hubs have international connection traffic if people want to avoid LAX.


Lets remember AC previously served both SNA and ONT. Obviously, they did not do too well. Even WS that came in as a new entrant(with 3 slots) to SNA is down to single Disneyland express flight from YYC.

Not sure AC will bother with SNA again when they have a large operation 40miles up the road at LAX.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:34 pm

asteriskceo wrote:

WN had almost 70 flights per day at their peak and have been forced to cut back almost 50% in their daily departures due to allocations.
LAXintl wrote:

WN slot holdings are actually way down. Was 49 as recently as 2017.

Historically Southwest has been very willing to backfill any loss in capacity by other airlines and hence grew its slot portfolio over the many years. For example, WN most years will pick up any mid-year allocations of slots not used by other airlines, and even willing to operate slots for brief periods.

Yes the County very much looks at aircraft capacity. They must determine airlines do not over allocate seat capacity and risk busting the 10.8mil cap.


Thanks to you both. I had no idea that Southwest had such a stronghold in SNA at one time. It's kind of like their current situation at DAL...and to a lesser degree MDW (ironically, which they don't fly P2P from SNA) & HOU.
 
master14225
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:35 pm

If UA and AA can fly to ORD and DL can fly to DTW and JFK, then YYZ is in range for SNA to YYZ.

MIflyer12 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
AC should get those 3 slots and do flights to YVR and YYZ. Those hubs have international connection traffic if people want to avoid LAX.


What could AC fly off a 5,700' runway that has the range to YYZ?
 
ScottB
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:01 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Thanks to you both. I had no idea that Southwest had such a stronghold in SNA at one time. It's kind of like their current situation at DAL...and to a lesser degree MDW (ironically, which they don't fly P2P from SNA) & HOU.


Eh, it's not much like DAL/MDW/HOU at all. Back about 20 years ago, WN had maybe 15 daily flights out of OAK and they served something like two routes -- I'm pretty sure OAK was one and I don't recall if the other was SJC, PHX, or LAS. AA used to have a much larger presence at SNA as a result of their purchase of AirCal. As LAXintl pointed out, WN was happy to grab any slots made available by other carriers over the years as they reduced service to SNA -- often they were the only party interested.

Neither MDW nor HOU has slots. There's not much of an analogy with DAL, either -- they were the only carrier at DAL for many years unlike SNA which had seen service from most or all major carriers post-deregulation.
 
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janders
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:01 pm

AC has had trouble trying to make SAN work with years of yo-yo schedules adding and dropping frequencies.

Not sure SNA should be on their map. Stick with LAX and trying to make SAN work better. No need to splinter markets.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
NickLAX
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:12 pm

AC tried and failed with YYZ - YVR is covered by WestJet and the Intl feed wouldn't be as big of a draw. For how much people hate LAX the crummy drive in traffic is still ALWAYS quicker for an Intl nonstop vs connecting. SFO with UA is the best bet for connections (with DL/AS @ SEA) secondary but many regulars who fly out of SNA I know they stick to LAX for Intl due to SFO UA issues. I did the SFO connection for 10 years and missed connections 40% of the time due to weather at SFO. When AC did run YYZ I took it twice and loads were really light mid week and didn't seem many Intl connections (e.g. didn't see many people off our flight going to connections vs immigration)

So looking at current data it appears that AS/Horizon is larger than AA and UA on slots and just under AA on total pax - impressive growth for AS over the years.
 
rbavfan
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:20 pm

master14225 wrote:
If UA and AA can fly to ORD and DL can fly to DTW and JFK, then YYZ is in range for SNA to YYZ.

MIflyer12 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
AC should get those 3 slots and do flights to YVR and YYZ. Those hubs have international connection traffic if people want to avoid LAX.


What could AC fly off a 5,700' runway that has the range to YYZ?



UA and delta used to use 757-200's on those route. That plane was designed for short field operations. 738 & A320 have limits on range due to T-O performance.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:53 pm

rbavfan wrote:
master14225 wrote:
If UA and AA can fly to ORD and DL can fly to DTW and JFK, then YYZ is in range for SNA to YYZ.

MIflyer12 wrote:

What could AC fly off a 5,700' runway that has the range to YYZ?



UA and delta used to use 757-200's on those route. That plane was designed for short field operations. 738 & A320 have limits on range due to T-O performance.


AA flies the 738 SNA-ORD. DL has gone back and forth between the 73G and 757 for SNA-ATL. I'm not aware if they've ever flown the 738 on that route.

AC flew the A319 SNA-YYZ.
 
nine4nine
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:12 pm

Doesn’t LGB release they’re slot allocation in the next day or so as well?
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janders
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:29 pm

LGB does not do annual allocations. Only when carriers vacate slots do they get reallocated.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
nine4nine
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:32 pm

janders wrote:
LGB does not do annual allocations. Only when carriers vacate slots do they get reallocated.



Maybe I phrased that wrong by saying an allocation, sorry. I had seen a post on another thread mentioning the 2019 slots for LGB to be released in the next few days. I’m curious as to that to see if WN was adding more at LGB due to being down to 41 at SNA and if B6 was making further cuts leaving more slots up for grabs.
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OzarkD9S
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:39 pm

nine4nine wrote:
janders wrote:

LGB does not do annual allocations. Only when carriers vacate slots do they get reallocated.



Maybe I phrased that wrong by saying an allocation, sorry. I had seen a post on another thread mentioning the 2019 slots for LGB to be released in the next few days. I’m curious as to that to see if WN was adding more at LGB due to being down to 41 at SNA and if B6 was making further cuts leaving more slots up for grabs.


I'm actually more interested in the far more limited opportunities at LGB than SNA. When WN first got LGB slots I commented that this was do or die for B6 @ LGB and others concurred. LGB and SNA are so close I could see WN making up some of the lost flights at SNA @ LGB if the slots @ LGB come their way. Stay tuned.... :cool2:
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Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:24 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
MDW (ironically, which they don't fly P2P from SNA)


Ironic indeed. WN has operated nonstop SNA-MDW on and off for years - seemingly whenever the county comes up with a slot for them to use. I believe this route is currently operated "seasonally". WN did just cut all SNA-SFO service, though, so maybe they can once again resume MDW while still showing their displeasure with the powers that be in Orange County...
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wnflyguy
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:41 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
MDW (ironically, which they don't fly P2P from SNA)


Ironic indeed. WN has operated nonstop SNA-MDW on and off for years - seemingly whenever the county comes up with a slot for them to use. I believe this route is currently operated "seasonally". WN did just cut all SNA-SFO service, though, so maybe they can once again resume MDW while still showing their displeasure with the powers that be in Orange County...


I believe this last flight schedule change that the are currently flying I believe.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:03 am

master14225 wrote:
If UA and AA can fly to ORD and DL can fly to DTW and JFK, then YYZ is in range for SNA to YYZ.

MIflyer12 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
AC should get those 3 slots and do flights to YVR and YYZ. Those hubs have international connection traffic if people want to avoid LAX.


What could AC fly off a 5,700' runway that has the range to YYZ?

only in a made up world where all airplanes are the same.

DL/UA are able to routes like ATL/JFK/EWR-SNA because they have 752s and super powerful 73Gs.

AC could use a 319, its the only thing in their fleet that could do it, but it will depend on the engines/weight packages to the specific frames.

BoeingGuy wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
master14225 wrote:
If UA and AA can fly to ORD and DL can fly to DTW and JFK, then YYZ is in range for SNA to YYZ.




UA and delta used to use 757-200's on those route. That plane was designed for short field operations. 738 & A320 have limits on range due to T-O performance.


AA flies the 738 SNA-ORD. DL has gone back and forth between the 73G and 757 for SNA-ATL. I'm not aware if they've ever flown the 738 on that route.

AC flew the A319 SNA-YYZ.

DL hasn't operated the 738 on ATL-SNA unless it was a one-off sub.
 
chrisair
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:50 pm

burnsie28 wrote:
Hold on so SNA can tell carriers who can fly the flights?

IE it says 7 of the 15 flights for DL are to be operated by OO. What if DL wanted 9E to fly those routes?


Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe each carrier has to do a series of test flights to show they can comply with the noise regs. Just because an OO CR9 can, doesn't mean a 9E CR9 can (using your example above).
 
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LAXintl
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:10 pm

Correct. Each operator/type must go through noise validation flight testing as part of the airports permitting process.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
DFW17L
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:14 pm

If an airline start-up with 757s buys SNA slots, I'll buy a seat for that E-Ticket ride. Woohoo.
 
metaldirtnskin
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:45 pm

chrisair wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
Hold on so SNA can tell carriers who can fly the flights?

IE it says 7 of the 15 flights for DL are to be operated by OO. What if DL wanted 9E to fly those routes?


Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe each carrier has to do a series of test flights to show they can comply with the noise regs. Just because an OO CR9 can, doesn't mean a 9E CR9 can (using your example above).


At the risk of sounding stupid: is this also the reason why Horizon and Compass have separately allocated slots but SkyWest doesn't (e.g. OO operates flights for DL, UA and AA)?
 
gmcc
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:54 am

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:26 pm

metaldirtnskin wrote:
chrisair wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
Hold on so SNA can tell carriers who can fly the flights?

IE it says 7 of the 15 flights for DL are to be operated by OO. What if DL wanted 9E to fly those routes?


Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe each carrier has to do a series of test flights to show they can comply with the noise regs. Just because an OO CR9 can, doesn't mean a 9E CR9 can (using your example above).


At the risk of sounding stupid: is this also the reason why Horizon and Compass have separately allocated slots but SkyWest doesn't (e.g. OO operates flights for DL, UA and AA)?


I think that is correct. OO does not get any mainline slots but operates "mainline" flights on 76 seat E175s as associate for the main carrier, ie AS, UA or DL. Some OO slots are actually commuter slot with 70 seat CRJ flying for united express. In addition OO flies e175s for several mainline carrier. This could make for a very interesting situation which was brought up at one of the airport commission meeting. If OO had a series of noise events with 175 operating for AS that caused it to be banned from operating that type of aircraft at the airport, all of a sudden there would be no OO 175 flights for any mainline carrier.
 
socalflyer00
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:19 am

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:50 pm

Does anyone know the determination ATC makes for allowing reverse op takeoffs at SNA?

I drive by SNA every morning pretty much right at 7:00 am (when curfew ends). However, once or twice a week I notice a plane (usually a UA A320 headed to Chicago - this morning it was UA flt# 230) take off using 20L instead of 2R

I have also seen a DL 757 occasionally take off using 2R mid-day.

This isn't a matter of shifting winds as, for instance this morning, UA 230 was the only aircraft to take off into the East and a long line of departing planes all took off into the west.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1678
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:39 pm

socalflyer00 wrote:
Does anyone know the determination ATC makes for allowing reverse op takeoffs at SNA?

I drive by SNA every morning pretty much right at 7:00 am (when curfew ends). However, once or twice a week I notice a plane (usually a UA A320 headed to Chicago - this morning it was UA flt# 230) take off using 20L instead of 2R

I have also seen a DL 757 occasionally take off using 2R mid-day.

This isn't a matter of shifting winds as, for instance this morning, UA 230 was the only aircraft to take off into the East and a long line of departing planes all took off into the west.


90% of those taking off the other way during what's considered normal operations at SNA are the results of being "Heavy" normally associated with weather at their final destination. The eastbound departures DO NOT require the noise cut back like the do for the Rich Newport/CostaMesa people. I've seen it several times we're swapping runways helped out on over Gross situations. During Santa Ana winds it made for easy days in terms weight and balance number because it always gave you the extra wiggle room.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
gmcc
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:54 am

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:31 pm

socalflyer00 wrote:
Does anyone know the determination ATC makes for allowing reverse op takeoffs at SNA?

I drive by SNA every morning pretty much right at 7:00 am (when curfew ends). However, once or twice a week I notice a plane (usually a UA A320 headed to Chicago - this morning it was UA flt# 230) take off using 20L instead of 2R

I have also seen a DL 757 occasionally take off using 2R mid-day.

This isn't a matter of shifting winds as, for instance this morning, UA 230 was the only aircraft to take off into the East and a long line of departing planes all took off into the west.


I think one of the determining factors for reverse takeoffs during normal operations is if the on shore breezes have kicked in. Was in the SNA terminal waiting for a flight with most takeoffs happening on 20R when a UA flight took off using 2L. Was curious about that so I checked the winds and saw there was none. I would think once the on shore winds start, normally around noon, there might be too much of a tailwind component for a departure off 2L.
 
iflyalexair
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:54 am

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:23 pm

So, where is DL reallocating the JFK service to?
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2902
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:34 pm

iflyalexair wrote:
So, where is DL reallocating the JFK service to?


It isn't. It lost seats so that is the route it cut to make up for it.
 
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kitplane01
Posts: 1350
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:58 am

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:07 pm

Why does SNA have a passenger cap and not a movement cap? If the point is to reduce noise .. a per airplane cap might work better. So what is the passenger cap's goal? And is this the best way to get that goal?
 
Jayce
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 10:36 am

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:14 pm

UPlog wrote:
Lets remember AC previously served both SNA and ONT. Obviously, they did not do too well. Even WS that came in as a new entrant(with 3 slots) to SNA is down to single Disneyland express flight from YYC.


WestJet flies SNA-YVR once a day. SNA-YYC was tried but dropped in favour of routing passengers through YVR.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
iflyalexair
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:54 am

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:26 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
iflyalexair wrote:
So, where is DL reallocating the JFK service to?


It isn't. It lost seats so that is the route it cut to make up for it.


Yeah, but they still have 15 ops YOY...
 
AirCalSNA
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:53 pm

I was curious if anyone has any insight into why WN is dropping nonstop SNA-SFO ... probably the route I fly most often. The flights seem to be very popular and after often booked-up months in advance. I'm not sure what the strategy is here. Thanks!
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1678
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:02 pm

AirCalSNA wrote:
I was curious if anyone has any insight into why WN is dropping nonstop SNA-SFO ... probably the route I fly most often. The flights seem to be very popular and after often booked-up months in advance. I'm not sure what the strategy is here. Thanks!


They're losing more slots in 2019 from 49 to 41.
With the SFO delays mixed with SNA curfew and the 3 way battle between UA,WN and AS.
WN decided to cut it's losses and Double Down on it's strongest market SNA-SJC against AS.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.

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