AirCalSNA
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:49 am

Thanks Flyguy!
 
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Web500sjc
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:28 am

kitplane01 wrote:
Why does SNA have a passenger cap and not a movement cap? If the point is to reduce noise .. a per airplane cap might work better. So what is the passenger cap's goal? And is this the best way to get that goal?



SNA has both a passenger cap and a movement cap.
Boiler Up!
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:50 am

kitplane01 wrote:
Why does SNA have a passenger cap and not a movement cap? If the point is to reduce noise .. a per airplane cap might work better. So what is the passenger cap's goal? And is this the best way to get that goal?


Per the OP:

LAXintl wrote:
Orange County is out with its annual slot and seat capacity allocation for John Wayne Airport for the 2019 calendar year.

The 2019 daily departure slot allocation and annual passenger capacity allocation for each carrier is as follows:

Alaska - 17 / 1,664,400
American - 18 / 2,094,048
Compass - 4 / 200,184
Delta - 15 / 1,464,216
FedEx - .726 / 0
Frontier - 2 / 267,180
Horizon - 5 / 416,100
Southwest - 41 / 4,299,700
United - 19 / 2,144,495
UPS - .62 / 0
WestJet - 1 / 89,440


It's an interesting approach but it seems to have settled into a pretty predictable routine each year of allocating the slots (movements) and passenger allowances. I assume the passenger cap goal is to keep the airport from being overrun with 100 daily A321 flights full of people. This allows both a broad allocation of movements while also keeping overall numbers in check for the airport/community.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
amcnd
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:00 am

gmcc wrote:
metaldirtnskin wrote:
chrisair wrote:

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe each carrier has to do a series of test flights to show they can comply with the noise regs. Just because an OO CR9 can, doesn't mean a 9E CR9 can (using your example above).


At the risk of sounding stupid: is this also the reason why Horizon and Compass have separately allocated slots but SkyWest doesn't (e.g. OO operates flights for DL, UA and AA)?


I think that is correct. OO does not get any mainline slots but operates "mainline" flights on 76 seat E175s as associate for the main carrier, ie AS, UA or DL. Some OO slots are actually commuter slot with 70 seat CRJ flying for united express. In addition OO flies e175s for several mainline carrier. This could make for a very interesting situation which was brought up at one of the airport commission meeting. If OO had a series of noise events with 175 operating for AS that caused it to be banned from operating that type of aircraft at the airport, all of a sudden there would be no OO 175 flights for any mainline carrier.



Didn’t OO just win the “quiet” award at SNA not that long ago...
 
gmcc
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:44 pm

amcnd wrote:
gmcc wrote:
metaldirtnskin wrote:

At the risk of sounding stupid: is this also the reason why Horizon and Compass have separately allocated slots but SkyWest doesn't (e.g. OO operates flights for DL, UA and AA)?


I think that is correct. OO does not get any mainline slots but operates "mainline" flights on 76 seat E175s as associate for the main carrier, ie AS, UA or DL. Some OO slots are actually commuter slot with 70 seat CRJ flying for united express. In addition OO flies e175s for several mainline carrier. This could make for a very interesting situation which was brought up at one of the airport commission meeting. If OO had a series of noise events with 175 operating for AS that caused it to be banned from operating that type of aircraft at the airport, all of a sudden there would be no OO 175 flights for any mainline carrier.



Didn’t OO just win the “quiet” award at SNA not that long ago...


They might have. They were the only airline I could think of that operated for multiple mainline carriers out of SNA to illustrate the fear one of the mainline carriers had about grouping all the operations together. The mainline was arguing that the noise profile for a multi mainline carrier like OO should be broken up and associated with each mainline.
 
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janders
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:47 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
It's an interesting approach but it seems to have settled into a pretty predictable routine each year of allocating the slots (movements) and passenger allowances. I assume the passenger cap goal is to keep the airport from being overrun with 100 daily A321 flights full of people. This allows both a broad allocation of movements while also keeping overall numbers in check for the airport/community.


Passenger allocation cap is there because the airport operates under a court settlement that limits maximimum annual passenger to 10.8 million.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
FATFlyer
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:05 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
It's an interesting approach but it seems to have settled into a pretty predictable routine each year of allocating the slots (movements) and passenger allowances. I assume the passenger cap goal is to keep the airport from being overrun with 100 daily A321 flights full of people. This allows both a broad allocation of movements while also keeping overall numbers in check for the airport/community.


LAXIntl will probably remember the history, reason and details better than I do.

But if I recall correctly, the passenger cap portion was included in the 1985 Settlement Agreement due to growth projections for SNA. At that time the airport master plan called for passenger counts to double in 10 years.

What isn't mentioned in this discussion is that the SNA Settlement Agreement also has included limits on terminal square footage, number of bridges/gates, number of vehicle parking spaces, etc.. Additionally the Agreement has been amended by all parties involved since the original 1985 date to allow increases at SNA.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:22 pm

janders wrote:
Passenger allocation cap is there because the airport operates under a court settlement that limits maximimum annual passenger to 10.8 million.


Correct but that is the current limit. There are changes to that number over the years.

1985-1990 - 4.75 million annual passengers
1990-2005 - 8.4 million annual passengers
2005-2010 - 10.3 million annual passengers
2011-2015 - 10.8 million annual passengers
2016-2020 - 10.8 million annual passengers
2021-2025 - 11.8 million annual passengers
2026-2030 - either 12.2 or 12.5 million annual passengers depending upon stated conditions
http://www.ocair.com/newsroom/facts/default?facts=settlement-agreement
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
laca773
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:41 am

All Mexico service ended up doing poorly correct? I know Internet ceased SNA service not long after they started to much fan fare in the media. WN also had some Mexico flights. Passengers prefer the multiple options, better fares from LAX?
 
Mcmax
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Re: 2019 SNA Slot Allocation Released

Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:57 am

laca773 wrote:
All Mexico service ended up doing poorly correct? I know Internet ceased SNA service not long after they started to much fan fare in the media. WN also had some Mexico flights. Passengers prefer the multiple options, better fares from LAX?


Alaska still flies from SNA to Puerto Vallarta and Cabo San Lucas, while Southwest still flies to Cabo San Lucas. Southwest used to also fly to Mexico City and Puerto Vallarta as well, but pulled those flights in early 2017 officially due to the loss of slot allocations. Whether these two flights were doing well or not, I don't know.

--Max
De minimis non curat lex tamen ego curao

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