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TC957
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:26 pm

So any info or news as to the salvage operation ? Be interested to see pics showing how they get that 738 out of the drink.
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:06 am

Very little reporting on the aftermath of this "mishap".

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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:15 pm

It has now been confirmed that the male passenger's body has be found by divers

https://twitter.com/PXPNG/status/1046741076264902656
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:22 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
An uncommanded water landing?

They didn't land where they wanted to and the airplane is under 100 feet of water. How is this not a crash?

Flightglobal seems to have settled on "splashdown" as an acceptable reference for the incident..... :| .....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... as-452304/

Air Niugini admits passenger missing after 737 splashdown
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:49 pm

Semantics
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:33 am

Last edited by AVB on Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:34 am

Vid and inside cabin found here:

https://youtu.be/oNZZJln2pkY
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:59 pm

Questions have been raised about PX's safety standards over the evacuation. Additionally the safety card on the 738 was in fact for a 73G.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/international ... ficiencies

https://www.thenational.com.pg/air-niug ... fety-card/
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:21 pm

Per the extra crew, they may have also been carrying a loadmaster, GSA, or mechanic if others are correct in saying that this route is usually an F70 and the crew at TKK may not have been trained in their 737 ops.
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:21 am

Anyone know where is this aircraft now P2-PXE? Did they fish it out of the water?
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Armadillo1
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:36 am

offtop: it will be pretty nice to have date of incident at all topics head
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:50 am

juliuswong wrote:
Anyone know where is this aircraft now P2-PXE? Did they fish it out of the water?

Written Off
 
BrianWilkes
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:34 am

Any aircraft that finds the water would be an instant right off!
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:40 am

iAmAlaska49 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Anyone know where is this aircraft now P2-PXE? Did they fish it out of the water?

Written Off


Nit picking, but that wasn't the question.

Is it still sitting in the water, or has it been lifted out ? There wouldn't be a huge amount to salvage from a submerged aircraft, but leaving it sitting in the water would be a hazard to navigation and an environmental problem.
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:52 am

An767 wrote:
I think crash is a bit of overkill. The aircraft according to news reports the aircraft overshoot the runway during a landing attempt at 09.30am local this morning. No reports of weather at the time .

AN767


Unbelievable. Involuntarily submerged 738 = crash
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:43 pm

BrianWilkes wrote:
Any aircraft that finds the water would be an instant right off!


I know it's a special case, but the last Boeing 307 Stratoliner that wound up in the Seattle-area lake was repaired.
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:50 pm

Armadillo1 wrote:
offtop: it will be pretty nice to have date of incident at all topics head


Agreed. Especially when topics get resurrected several months later, and/or when they have references like "today" in the title.
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:52 pm

mga707 wrote:
BrianWilkes wrote:
Any aircraft that finds the water would be an instant right off!


I know it's a special case, but the last Boeing 307 Stratoliner that wound up in the Seattle-area lake was repaired.


Wasn't there a JAL DC-8 that was repaired after landing in the water?
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:17 pm

goboeing wrote:
Because the brakes are garbage compared to the Airbus, and the 738 has high approach speeds which obviously does not complement a lack of effective braking.

1960s airplane being flown way, way too long in stretched versions.


Well there you have it folks...the brakes on one of the most popular and proven aircraft ever built are garbage.
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:13 pm

http://avherald.com/h?article=4be42f25/0000&opt=0

Final report released today. To give the ultra-short version, the pilots put the plane in a way-too-fast descent after going into IMC and ignored 16 warnings they were given. The dead pax was wearing no seatbelt and died of blunt force trauma, and there was a jumpseater who recorded everything from a cell phone. I wonder if we may ever actually see that footage. It would definitely be very interesting to watch, and also would probably help with pilot training
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:12 pm

OA940 wrote:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4be42f25/0000&opt=0

Final report released today. To give the ultra-short version, the pilots put the plane in a way-too-fast descent after going into IMC and ignored 16 warnings they were given. The dead pax was wearing no seatbelt and died of blunt force trauma, and there was a jumpseater who recorded everything from a cell phone. I wonder if we may ever actually see that footage. It would definitely be very interesting to watch, and also would probably help with pilot training

It sure would be interesting to see the video, but I’m not sure how it can improve pilot training. I hope pilots are already tought not to ignore 16 warnings before committing to land ;) Jokes aside, of course there may be lessons learned. Do we know why the pax that was killed had no seatbelt? Did he/she unbuckle it after touchdown or was it not even fastened to start with?

/Fredrik
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:23 pm

What a sad read. An absolute disgrace IMO. One must question the level of professionalism and discipline within that flight deck. The fact that on the previous flight to this very accident - this same crew flew an approach into their previous destination with up to eight GPWS warnings going off and no action taken at all to correct the flightpath, let alone the failure of a sterile cockpit, and a myriad of breaches to their Company Procedures. A shame it had to cost a life.

I shake my head in disgust.
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:38 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
OA940 wrote:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4be42f25/0000&opt=0

Final report released today. To give the ultra-short version, the pilots put the plane in a way-too-fast descent after going into IMC and ignored 16 warnings they were given. The dead pax was wearing no seatbelt and died of blunt force trauma, and there was a jumpseater who recorded everything from a cell phone. I wonder if we may ever actually see that footage. It would definitely be very interesting to watch, and also would probably help with pilot training

It sure would be interesting to see the video, but I’m not sure how it can improve pilot training. I hope pilots are already tought not to ignore 16 warnings before committing to land ;) Jokes aside, of course there may be lessons learned. Do we know why the pax that was killed had no seatbelt? Did he/she unbuckle it after touchdown or was it not even fastened to start with?

/Fredrik


The report says the deceased was NOT wearing a seatbelt at the time of impact.
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:39 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
OA940 wrote:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4be42f25/0000&opt=0

Final report released today. To give the ultra-short version, the pilots put the plane in a way-too-fast descent after going into IMC and ignored 16 warnings they were given. The dead pax was wearing no seatbelt and died of blunt force trauma, and there was a jumpseater who recorded everything from a cell phone. I wonder if we may ever actually see that footage. It would definitely be very interesting to watch, and also would probably help with pilot training

It sure would be interesting to see the video, but I’m not sure how it can improve pilot training. I hope pilots are already tought not to ignore 16 warnings before committing to land ;) Jokes aside, of course there may be lessons learned. Do we know why the pax that was killed had no seatbelt? Did he/she unbuckle it after touchdown or was it not even fastened to start with?

/Fredrik

The report indicates that the belt was never fastened. A suprise that none of the other passengers received injuries, just because they were wearing the seat belt.
The Pathologists’ reports stated: “the deceased passenger received blunt force trauma injuries to the skull and face.” The pathologists concluded that the passenger was not wearing a seat belt at the time of the impact, which allowed his body to become a projectile sustaining traumatic head and facial injuries.

There was no evidence of drowning and the Pathologists concluded that the passenger would have been severely concussed and died within the first 3 minutes of receiving the traumatic head injuries.
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:05 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
It sure would be interesting to see the video, but I’m not sure how it can improve pilot training. I hope pilots are already tought not to ignore 16 warnings before committing to land ;) Jokes aside, of course there may be lessons learned. Do we know why the pax that was killed had no seatbelt? Did he/she unbuckle it after touchdown or was it not even fastened to start with?

/Fredrik


I may be misunderstanding your question, but just in case, the plane didnt touch down and overrun the runway, it landed in the water short of the runway.

If you read the summary the final report states that, just before IMC, they were a little high (3 white PAPIs). I guess they may have believed they were either still a little high or on glide, in spite of several warnings stating the opposite. Expectation bias is quite dangerous in aviation, and we've also seen it before (see the AC incident in SFO for example). In general such footage is basically a ''what not to do in any case'' kind of thing, and could teach upcoming pilots the importance of sterile cockpit, CRM and following procedures. Obv this is just stuff me, an enthusiast, is saying and of course I have no clue wether or not it's actually a valid way to train pilots but we all can theorize

mxaxai wrote:
The report indicates that the belt was never fastened. A suprise that none of the other passengers received injuries, just because they were wearing the seat belt.


Considering the aircraft remained relatively intact after impact I get why there would be no injuries, apart from sprains, bruises and maybe a fracture or something similar. But the deceleration was probably very rapid, so I can see how the one pax died. Just goes to show the importance of seatbelts
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:44 pm

debonair wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
According to regulations, it should be 1 stewardess on 50 passengers, right? So 2 pilots and 4 stewardesses = 6 crew.


The European regulation is 1 Flight Attendant on 50 SEATS - not passengers...

Looking at the pictures in this article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45674786 it seems there was enough time to deploy the life rafts. Strange however, that there is no emergency slide visible - on the B737-800 the slides can be used as floatation devices (like they did on Sullenberger's A320 ditching).


In the first photo, there are two rafts...one next to the rear of the plane (which is in the other photos) and the other off to the left of the photo, apparently floating in the water. Or are those not slides/rafts?
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:18 am

OA940 wrote:
FredrikHAD wrote:
It sure would be interesting to see the video, but I’m not sure how it can improve pilot training. I hope pilots are already tought not to ignore 16 warnings before committing to land ;) Jokes aside, of course there may be lessons learned. Do we know why the pax that was killed had no seatbelt? Did he/she unbuckle it after touchdown or was it not even fastened to start with?

/Fredrik


I may be misunderstanding your question, but just in case, the plane didnt touch down and overrun the runway, it landed in the water short of the runway.

If you read the summary the final report states that, just before IMC, they were a little high (3 white PAPIs). I guess they may have believed they were either still a little high or on glide, in spite of several warnings stating the opposite. Expectation bias is quite dangerous in aviation, and we've also seen it before (see the AC incident in SFO for example). In general such footage is basically a ''what not to do in any case'' kind of thing, and could teach upcoming pilots the importance of sterile cockpit, CRM and following procedures. Obv this is just stuff me, an enthusiast, is saying and of course I have no clue wether or not it's actually a valid way to train pilots but we all can theorize

mxaxai wrote:
The report indicates that the belt was never fastened. A suprise that none of the other passengers received injuries, just because they were wearing the seat belt.


Considering the aircraft remained relatively intact after impact I get why there would be no injuries, apart from sprains, bruises and maybe a fracture or something similar. But the deceleration was probably very rapid, so I can see how the one pax died. Just goes to show the importance of seatbelts

Ah, sorry. As always I should have read up on the subject before posting. I was assuming (from the initial posts) that the at some point they touched the runway. Some pax unbuckle at that point, not realizing they’re still going faster than they’ve ever gone in a car.

/Fredrik
 
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par13del
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:27 am

I know its the Daily Mail, but they do have footage of the cell phone video
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... liner.html
 
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OA940
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:01 pm

par13del wrote:
I know its the Daily Mail, but they do have footage of the cell phone video
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... liner.html


Not sure if it's just the video quality that makes it hard, but I'm pretty sure you can still see the water. This accident is very puzzling
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:05 am

I kinda like the NTSBs slap there. The local authorities determined that if only there was an additional warning they crash may have been avoided. The NTSB basically said look, they ignored 16 warnings, more were not going to help.
 
Dogbreath
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:39 am

Aside from the GPWS warnings, this was an instrument approach that was never stabilised at any point inside the FAF. Loads of GPWS warnings, but look at the PFD and there is a clear fly up indication on the vertical NPS scale with a PULL UP annunciation at the bottom of the display. Let alone the ridiculously high rate of descent below 1000ft for a 3 degree fight path.
It’s rule 101, that you never descend below the MDA/DA without the required visual references, and if you then lose these visual references you carry out a Missed Approach. How many accidents over the past 50+ years have ended in tragedy when continuing with an unstable approach and/or without visual reference below the MDA/DA? Unfortunately, far too many.

This particular crew has accepted a culture of committing intentional breaches of SOP with a lack of basic instrument flying skills and very poor airmanship.
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barney captain
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:11 am

"Flights Low"........ :roll: Good lord...I know it's the DM, but even the smallest amount of research would tell them it was "Glideslope".
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Q
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:09 pm

The captain is in total failure. He won't be able to back to his job anymore. I guess FAA revokes his license pilot. He did not do the right thing to push TOGA throttle full power to make go around! Failed!

Q
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:56 pm

Q wrote:
The captain is in total failure. He won't be able to back to his job anymore. I guess FAA revokes his license pilot. He did not do the right thing to push TOGA throttle full power to make go around! Failed!

Q


What the question ought to be is. WHY is he a total failure and HOW COME he was in command of a 737?
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:57 pm

airbuster wrote:
Q wrote:
The captain is in total failure. He won't be able to back to his job anymore. I guess FAA revokes his license pilot. He did not do the right thing to push TOGA throttle full power to make go around! Failed!

Q


What the question ought to be is. WHY is he a total failure and HOW COME he was in command of a 737?


Listen he didn’t intentionally want to crash his 737 in the sea.
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:04 pm

Q wrote:
The captain is in total failure. He won't be able to back to his job anymore. I guess FAA revokes his license pilot. He did not do the right thing to push TOGA throttle full power to make go around! Failed!

Q

Your post is in total failure: given the Captain is a PNG national holding a PNG ATPL, I imagine the FAA, a regulatory authority of the USA, will have precisely zero to do with his licence.

Perhaps have a read of the report, it may allow a bit more of a nuanced understanding: http://www.aic.gov.pg/pdf/FinRpts/2019/ ... Report.pdf

Something that stands out to me is around crew rest and fatigue (see pages 7-9 and 49) - particularly that the summary paints some classic fatigue risk factors (busted duty time limits and less than 8 hour’s sleep for both crew - 5.5 hours for the captain and 6.6 hours for the first officer) then states

The AIC obtained the services of an aviation investigation medical practitioner who has specialised in aircraft accident and serious incident medical and psychological investigations for more than 20 years. Under the provisions of the Civil Aviation Act 2000 (as amended) and the Commissions of Inquiry Act, this expert examined ALL relevant evidence and provided the AIC with assessment and findings. No evidence of fatigue was presented.


I would be intrigued to know whether other agencies reviewing the accident equally felt there was no evidence of fatigue.

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Dominion301
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:20 pm

They are so lucky that they hit shallow water and the aircraft remained just about fully intact save for what appears part of the engine cowling.

Sad their inaction led to one person dying. Even sadder that the only person that died is the one that wasn’t wearing their seatbelt.
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:05 pm

airbuster wrote:
airbuster wrote:
Q wrote:
The captain is in total failure. He won't be able to back to his job anymore. I guess FAA revokes his license pilot. He did not do the right thing to push TOGA throttle full power to make go around! Failed!

Q


What the question ought to be is. WHY is he a total failure and HOW COME he was in command of a 737?


Listen he didn’t intentionally want to crash his 737 in the sea.


Did you watch the video? They're lucky they aren't all dead. Negligence was off the charts.
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cat3appr50
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:40 pm

From looking at the final report video, the Vref40 speed was 134 knots. With the report stated total block fuel loaded of 13,800 kgs / 30,424 lbs, with only 35 passengers, assuming normal passenger weights and normal passenger baggage loading and minimal other cargo (IMO 1,000 lbs would seem reasonable), the Vref40 speed of 134 seems high. The report doesn’t discuss baggage and cargo loading, and therefore ZFW. What was the ZFW?

The crew had a RNAV (GPS) 04 approach in the FMC to use with the respective crossing waypoints/altitudes (FIGBI IAF and FASPO FAF and HAMAX MAP), but used manual vertical control and LNAV. If one has the available RNAV procedure and heading into heavy rain (WX radar painting red at the MAP per the video- BTW shouldn’t have entered this WX anyway), why not use LNAV/VNAV/A’P all the way from just before CAVRI to before the MDA? Don’t understand their need to use manual vertical control which obviously resulted in a quite non-stabilized approach. Especially considering there was definitely a lack of skill in manual vertical control in maintaining the G/S anyway, based on the data (including the unbelievable ignoring of reported 17 EGPWS alerts), given as noted in the report that they didn’t face updrafts, downdrafts, wind shear, etc. on the approach that would significantly affect manual vertical control.
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:03 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
They are so lucky that they hit shallow water and the aircraft remained just about fully intact save for what appears part of the engine cowling.

Sad their inaction led to one person dying. Even sadder that the only person that died is the one that wasn’t wearing their seatbelt.


If I recall, weren't two of the three killed in Asiana 214 at SFO not wearing their seatbelts?
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:14 pm

An767 wrote:
I think crash is a bit of overkill.


When the plane hits the water and sinks to the bottom due to a complete departure from the proper glide path, which was being presented to the crew,

It's a crash.
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:27 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
They are so lucky that they hit shallow water and the aircraft remained just about fully intact save for what appears part of the engine cowling.

Sad their inaction led to one person dying. Even sadder that the only person that died is the one that wasn’t wearing their seatbelt.


If I recall, weren't two of the three killed in Asiana 214 at SFO not wearing their seatbelts?

Correct


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barney captain
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:59 pm

I don't understand why there were "Glideslpoe" alerts from the EGPWS - they were on the RNAV GPS approach to runway 4 - there was no glideslpoe. In fact. there is no ILS approach at all in TKK. The 737 will not generate a "Glideslope" alert on anything but an ILS.

Where was the "Glidslope" alert coming from? Something is missing from that final report.
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:19 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
They are so lucky that they hit shallow water and the aircraft remained just about fully intact save for what appears part of the engine cowling.

Sad their inaction led to one person dying. Even sadder that the only person that died is the one that wasn’t wearing their seatbelt.


If I recall, weren't two of the three killed in Asiana 214 at SFO not wearing their seatbelts?


And wasn’t the third tragically killed not by the crash itself but by one of the emergency response vehicles?
 
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:27 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
They are so lucky that they hit shallow water and the aircraft remained just about fully intact save for what appears part of the engine cowling.

Sad their inaction led to one person dying. Even sadder that the only person that died is the one that wasn’t wearing their seatbelt.


If I recall, weren't two of the three killed in Asiana 214 at SFO not wearing their seatbelts?


And wasn’t the third tragically killed not by the crash itself but by one of the emergency response vehicles?

If I remember correctly, one person was hit by a firefighter vehicle, but it was forensically shown that that person was already deceased when that happened.
 
hugoandres1984
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:43 pm

barney captain wrote:
I don't understand why there were "Glideslpoe" alerts from the EGPWS - they were on the RNAV GPS approach to runway 4 - there was no glideslpoe. In fact. there is no ILS approach at all in TKK. The 737 will not generate a "Glideslope" alert on anything but an ILS.

Where was the "Glidslope" alert coming from? Something is missing from that final report.



I think that the 737NG has the IAN (integrated approach navigation) option, it creates a computerized glide slope so this is why they got “glide slope” on the GPWS
 
zuckie13
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:47 pm

barney captain wrote:
I don't understand why there were "Glideslpoe" alerts from the EGPWS - they were on the RNAV GPS approach to runway 4 - there was no glideslpoe. In fact. there is no ILS approach at all in TKK. The 737 will not generate a "Glideslope" alert on anything but an ILS.

Where was the "Glidslope" alert coming from? Something is missing from that final report.


In RNAV with LNAV and VNAV modes, the plane can provide what is essentially a virtual glideslope. It knows where the glideslope should be, and where you are by usual RNAV position tracking.
 
barney captain
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:23 pm

zuckie13 wrote:
barney captain wrote:
I don't understand why there were "Glideslpoe" alerts from the EGPWS - they were on the RNAV GPS approach to runway 4 - there was no glideslpoe. In fact. there is no ILS approach at all in TKK. The 737 will not generate a "Glideslope" alert on anything but an ILS.

Where was the "Glidslope" alert coming from? Something is missing from that final report.


In RNAV with LNAV and VNAV modes, the plane can provide what is essentially a virtual glideslope. It knows where the glideslope should be, and where you are by usual RNAV position tracking.


I'm aware - but it won't generate a "Glideslope" alert on a VNAV deviation during a GPS approach.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
barney captain
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:24 pm

hugoandres1984 wrote:
barney captain wrote:
I don't understand why there were "Glideslpoe" alerts from the EGPWS - they were on the RNAV GPS approach to runway 4 - there was no glideslpoe. In fact. there is no ILS approach at all in TKK. The 737 will not generate a "Glideslope" alert on anything but an ILS.

Where was the "Glidslope" alert coming from? Something is missing from that final report.



I think that the 737NG has the IAN (integrated approach navigation) option, it creates a computerized glide slope so this is why they got “glide slope” on the GPWS



That could be - we don't have that on our a/c but that would certainly explain it. Thanks!
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: Plane Crash at TKK (Chuuk, FSM) - Air Niugini

Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:54 pm

If you are flying an LNAV/VNAV approach you have level offs in some cases, with IAN it smooths those out to give you a "glideslope" type approach. Instead of the PFD displaying G/S it displays G/P (Glide Path). You select the "APP" button just as you would for an ILS approach. As long as the approach is listed in the FMC, you can use IAN. Your minimum altitude is increased by 50 ft to account for the difference in the profile. If you're manually flying the IAN approach it will give you "glideslope" callouts if you're off profile. If you leave the autopilot on down to 100 ft is gives you a caution message -- it's single channel and not autoland capable.

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