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qf789
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New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:24 pm

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread October 2018. Please continue to add your comments below.

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1402931
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NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:46 am

While I support trams in Auckland, it's not an airport transport option for an airport catering for more than 40m passengers in just over 20 years.

We need to think long-term on this one.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/airports/new ... 94&ref=rss
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:54 am

NZ6 wrote:
While I support trams in Auckland, it's not an airport transport option for an airport catering for more than 40m passengers in just over 20 years.

We need to think long-term on this one.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/airports/new ... 94&ref=rss

Every airport situation is different and there are very good reasons why a heavy rail connection at Puhinui would compromise the rest of the rail network. A heavy rail connection via Onehunga would be better, both for the public transport network as a whole and also for the operational efficiency of the rail network itself. But a light rail solution via Dominion Road has network benefits as well. What the proponents of the Puhinui link disregard is that this is NOT just about the airport but about a whole swathe of South Auckland which is poorly served by public transport. If it was just about the airport then the investment for the addition of just one(!) new station (as the Puhinui Link would provide) would be an outrageous extravagance.

The current light rail proposal is a perfectly adequate solution and would be by far the best for the PT network as a WHOLE. It will involve a small time penalty of a few minutes for a trip to downtown Auckland compared with a heavy rail link, yes, but seriously, that’s neither here nor there when you’ve been travelling for many hours. As to the suitability of light rail as a solution - I recently used the Edinburgh light rail airport link and was reassured by both its suitability for travellers and its travel time.

The promoters of the public meeting do not represent “public transport users” as their name suggests but have their own political and other agendas. I can elaborate . . .
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:31 am

Another thing to consider is such a light rail link would also open up that corridor to investment for the likes of businesses and hotels that want to be on a direct line to the airport. Instead of clustering everything in the CBD.

Even in a city like London I can think of only one airport that has a dedicated non-stop CBD to Airport heavy rail link. And Heathrow still has a tube connection and a stopping heavy rail service. The Gatwick Express does go from CBD to Gatwick non stop but then continues on past Gatwick so I don't count it here.

Most people will be more than happy with a super regular service where they just turn up and go. Even if it takes a bit more time than a non-stop option. In all the travel I've done in Europe the option between non-stop and stopping was a best a nice to have.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:31 am

I don't know why they don't build a new high speed line between Newmarket and Hamilton with an interchange point to a light rail line between the airport and Eastern suburbs somewhere near Manakau city. One stop AKL-Hamilton. Something that would take about 60 mins reliably between Newmarket and Hamilton - and then this feeds AKL for Hamilton passengers more easily. Manakau a 10 minute ride from Newmarket and then a 7 minute ride to the airport. Same platform transfer. Just like many airports overseas. I also recommend buying light rail that can run on the existing hard rail network like in Melbourne. My sense is they (the council) are not prepared to spend the money on the necessary infrastructure - same as in the past umpteen years, piecemeal thinking. The Auckland council and the government need to come up with a better solution. IMHO looking ahead, this sort of bold thinking is what should be on the table. Time for some brave conversations about infrastructure.
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DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:56 am

NZ321 wrote:
I don't know why they don't build a new high speed line between Newmarket and Hamilton with an interchange point to a light rail line between the airport and Eastern suburbs somewhere near Manakau city. One stop AKL-Hamilton. Something that would take about 60 mins reliably between Newmarket and Hamilton - and then this feeds AKL for Hamilton passengers more easily. Manakau a 10 minute ride from Newmarket and then a 7 minute ride to the airport. Same platform transfer. Just like many airports overseas. I also recommend buying light rail that can run on the existing hard rail network like in Melbourne. My sense is they (the council) are not prepared to spend the money on the necessary infrastructure - same as in the past umpteen years, piecemeal thinking. The Auckland council and the government need to come up with a better solution. IMHO looking ahead, this sort of bold thinking is what should be on the table. Time for some brave conversations about infrastructure.

Short answer to running light rail and heavy rail on the same rail lines: incompatible from a safety perspective. Heavy and light do not mix. And in addition, until a third and fourth main line are constructed, there isn’t the capacity. But why would you want to have the light rail duplicate the heavy rail network anyway?
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ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:16 am

NZ321 wrote:
I don't know why they don't build a new high speed line between Newmarket and Hamilton with an interchange point to a light rail line between the airport and Eastern suburbs somewhere near Manakau city. One stop AKL-Hamilton. Something that would take about 60 mins reliably between Newmarket and Hamilton - and then this feeds AKL for Hamilton passengers more easily. Manakau a 10 minute ride from Newmarket and then a 7 minute ride to the airport. Same platform transfer. Just like many airports overseas. I also recommend buying light rail that can run on the existing hard rail network like in Melbourne. My sense is they (the council) are not prepared to spend the money on the necessary infrastructure - same as in the past umpteen years, piecemeal thinking. The Auckland council and the government need to come up with a better solution. IMHO looking ahead, this sort of bold thinking is what should be on the table. Time for some brave conversations about infrastructure.


I think we should label such thoughts as Think Big.

Not trying to be too snarky but more point out there's a reason for a more phased approach. Big bang changes hurt when they go bang the wrong way.
 
Gemuser
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:56 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
I don't know why they don't build a new high speed line between Newmarket and Hamilton with an interchange point to a light rail line between the airport and Eastern suburbs somewhere near Manakau city. One stop AKL-Hamilton. Something that would take about 60 mins reliably between Newmarket and Hamilton - and then this feeds AKL for Hamilton passengers more easily. Manakau a 10 minute ride from Newmarket and then a 7 minute ride to the airport. Same platform transfer. Just like many airports overseas. I also recommend buying light rail that can run on the existing hard rail network like in Melbourne. My sense is they (the council) are not prepared to spend the money on the necessary infrastructure - same as in the past umpteen years, piecemeal thinking. The Auckland council and the government need to come up with a better solution. IMHO looking ahead, this sort of bold thinking is what should be on the table. Time for some brave conversations about infrastructure.

Short answer to running light rail and heavy rail on the same rail lines: incompatible from a safety perspective. Heavy and light do not mix. And in addition, until a third and fourth main line are constructed, there isn’t the capacity. But why would you want to have the light rail duplicate the heavy rail network anyway?

You ever been to Switzerland or Germany? Numerous examples in both countries.

Gemuser
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:04 pm

I think in one of the replies above the word "staged" in my proposal in terms of planning was not read. I don't support "think big" - in terms of a former prime minister's vision - for one minute, but rather having a coherent long term infrastructure vision and plan to meet projected demand rather than ad hoc piecemeal solutions which I think is what we are talking about with the current plan. Like Gemuser says, there are plenty of very workable scale able solutions in other countries. Does our understandable disdain of "think big" in the past prevent us from tackling long term solutions ? We need to have brave conversations and consider not just the immediate needs (reactionary) but the needs of those who will be using the infrastructure in 10-20 years.
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NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:49 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
While I support trams in Auckland, it's not an airport transport option for an airport catering for more than 40m passengers in just over 20 years.

We need to think long-term on this one.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/airports/new ... 94&ref=rss

Every airport situation is different and there are very good reasons why a heavy rail connection at Puhinui would compromise the rest of the rail network. A heavy rail connection via Onehunga would be better, both for the public transport network as a whole and also for the operational efficiency of the rail network itself. But a light rail solution via Dominion Road has network benefits as well. What the proponents of the Puhinui link disregard is that this is NOT just about the airport but about a whole swathe of South Auckland which is poorly served by public transport. If it was just about the airport then the investment for the addition of just one(!) new station (as the Puhinui Link would provide) would be an outrageous extravagance.

The current light rail proposal is a perfectly adequate solution and would be by far the best for the PT network as a WHOLE. It will involve a small time penalty of a few minutes for a trip to downtown Auckland compared with a heavy rail link, yes, but seriously, that’s neither here nor there when you’ve been travelling for many hours. As to the suitability of light rail as a solution - I recently used the Edinburgh light rail airport link and was reassured by both its suitability for travellers and its travel time.

The promoters of the public meeting do not represent “public transport users” as their name suggests but have their own political and other agendas. I can elaborate . . .


While I’m not set on any particular heavy rail route, dedicated airport light rail from Manukau transport centre would be a good start.

I’d imagine a new line from Onehunga, double tracking to the main branch would come at some considerable cost, all though I did state look long term.

Also the main trunk is busy, manukau via east Auckland line could be better utilised.

What bothers me is light rail is expected to near capacity during peak on residential patronage let alone airport bound / commenced passengers who will have several large cases in some scenarios.

I can’t help but think town planners have gone for a two birds one stone approach.

I personally see that 40m mark being reached early 2030’s too as apposed to AKL’s prediction of 2040’s.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:32 pm

Given that ZQN’s expansion plans are now very much in doubt, perhaps this will be the trigger for the anticipated expansion of WKA to allow for jet movements - to AKL, as already foreshadowed (and possibly Transtasman as well)?
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afterburner33
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:39 pm

NZ321 wrote:
I don't know why they don't build a new high speed line between Newmarket and Hamilton with an interchange point to a light rail line between the airport and Eastern suburbs somewhere near Manakau city. One stop AKL-Hamilton. Something that would take about 60 mins reliably between Newmarket and Hamilton - and then this feeds AKL for Hamilton passengers more easily. Manakau a 10 minute ride from Newmarket and then a 7 minute ride to the airport. Same platform transfer. Just like many airports overseas.


I've often thought that in my ideal world this would be a great thing to have as well. as it would open up daily commuting from Hamilton to Auckland. However I would have a stop in maybe Huntly and/or Pukekohe as well. But realistically it will never happen - it would really need to be dedicated lines, or a massive upgrade to the existing ones. And as such, it would probably be unaffordable for NZ. Not to mention that it's hard to imagine any government ever having the vision or political will to undertake such a massive project.

Anyway, back to planes :smile:
 
torin
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:19 am

Emirates wishes to advise the following schedule update for EK450-451 B777-300ER services via Bali (DPS) for
2019 travel. The below information supersedes the 28 September update:

• 21Jan19-15Apr19 will operate 4 x weekly
EK450 Tue, Fri, Sat, Sun DXB-DPS-AKL
EK451 Wed, Sat, Sun, Mon AKL-DPS-DXB

• 16Apr19-30May19 will operate 5 x weekly during the Dubai southern runway upgrade program
EK450 Tues, Wed, Fri, Sat, Sun DXB-DPS-AKL
EK451 Wed, Thu, Sat, Sun, Mon AKL-DPS-DXB

• From 31May19 EK450-451 services will return to daily operations.


So they jumped the gun saying services were down to 4x weekly...
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:01 am

torin wrote:
Emirates wishes to advise the following schedule update for EK450-451 B777-300ER services via Bali (DPS) for
2019 travel. The below information supersedes the 28 September update:

• 21Jan19-15Apr19 will operate 4 x weekly
EK450 Tue, Fri, Sat, Sun DXB-DPS-AKL
EK451 Wed, Sat, Sun, Mon AKL-DPS-DXB

• 16Apr19-30May19 will operate 5 x weekly during the Dubai southern runway upgrade program
EK450 Tues, Wed, Fri, Sat, Sun DXB-DPS-AKL
EK451 Wed, Thu, Sat, Sun, Mon AKL-DPS-DXB

• From 31May19 EK450-451 services will return to daily operations.


So they jumped the gun saying services were down to 4x weekly...


It was only till March 30th before, demand to DPS itself is at its highest in NS April- October, part of me thinks they could add an extra 3 weekly non stop DXB/AKL over NW to increase capacity there over our peak. Probably not likely given their crew shortage however.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:31 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
While I support trams in Auckland, it's not an airport transport option for an airport catering for more than 40m passengers in just over 20 years.

We need to think long-term on this one.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/airports/new ... 94&ref=rss

Every airport situation is different and there are very good reasons why a heavy rail connection at Puhinui would compromise the rest of the rail network. A heavy rail connection via Onehunga would be better, both for the public transport network as a whole and also for the operational efficiency of the rail network itself. But a light rail solution via Dominion Road has network benefits as well. What the proponents of the Puhinui link disregard is that this is NOT just about the airport but about a whole swathe of South Auckland which is poorly served by public transport. If it was just about the airport then the investment for the addition of just one(!) new station (as the Puhinui Link would provide) would be an outrageous extravagance.

The current light rail proposal is a perfectly adequate solution and would be by far the best for the PT network as a WHOLE. It will involve a small time penalty of a few minutes for a trip to downtown Auckland compared with a heavy rail link, yes, but seriously, that’s neither here nor there when you’ve been travelling for many hours. As to the suitability of light rail as a solution - I recently used the Edinburgh light rail airport link and was reassured by both its suitability for travellers and its travel time.

The promoters of the public meeting do not represent “public transport users” as their name suggests but have their own political and other agendas. I can elaborate . . .


Yeah and my agenda is as an airport user. I'm not interested in "network benefits" or economic development along a particular corridor. I'm interested in getting to and from the airport quickly, reliably and in a manner that accounts for the specific needs of airport users (aka bags). None of which a lengthy, semi grade separated tram delivers.

The rest is just guff espoused by the 'Greater Auckland' crowd, who appear to have an outsized influence over recent decisions. Only in Auckland could the "experts" think a 46 minute commute (all going well) from downtown to the airport is an acceptable outcome. Hopeless.

Do one thing and do it right.
 
Deepinsider
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:13 am

Pretty well every reader here will have been to a great variety of
airports around the world. How many would have chosen a tram
through the suburbs, vs a real train to downtown?
Let's imagine Auckland airport 30 years from now and then trying
go through all the land/resource consent stuff, it just wouldn't be
possible with the land use by then. Do it properly...now!
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:58 am

Thank you Deep Insider. Insightful thinking!
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:20 pm

Deepinsider wrote:
Pretty well every reader here will have been to a great variety of
airports around the world. How many would have chosen a tram
through the suburbs, vs a real train to downtown?
Let's imagine Auckland airport 30 years from now and then trying
go through all the land/resource consent stuff, it just wouldn't be
possible with the land use by then. Do it properly...now!

Agree. HR has much more capacity especially when considering that LR will have a lot of its capacity already used up along Dom Rd etc.
Best option would be Onehunga - but expensive.
Cheapest option would be Puhinui. - does a pretty good job (rest of network issues can be resolved in other ways - as for frequency, a HR shuttle can be run back and forth between the airport and Puhinui/Manukau on every second service meaning 6 trains per hour total with 3 of those being 1 seat journeys to the city). This option could also be built and operating the fastest - 2 years.
Alternative option - Otahuhu - cheaper than Onehunga, less network issues than Puhinui. Urban redevelopment of the area around stations.
All 3 casesyou would still build LR along Dom Rd, just not to the airport (at least not right away).
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DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:21 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
Yeah and my agenda is as an airport user. I'm not interested in "network benefits" or economic development along a particular corridor. I'm interested in getting to and from the airport quickly, reliably and in a manner that accounts for the specific needs of airport users (aka bags). None of which a lengthy, semi grade separated tram delivers.

I'm picking that in future you'll probably take a cab, or have someone pick you up - to continue using whatever means of transport you choose to get to the airport now. Even heavy rail was only going to come in a few minutes under the time for LR; time/speed is not the issue. LR will never be the personal transport choice for everyone, but is squarely targeted at getting the most bums on seats out of the Airport and neighbouring suburbs, basically to shift people, efficiently. With reduced traffic there's a good chance that your taxi will have a clearer run to and from the airport and that your journey time will also come down. Problem solved!
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Gemuser
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:33 pm

Deepinsider wrote:
Pretty well every reader here will have been to a great variety of
airports around the world. How many would have chosen a tram
through the suburbs, vs a real train to downtown?
Let's imagine Auckland airport 30 years from now and then trying
go through all the land/resource consent stuff, it just wouldn't be
possible with the land use by then. Do it properly...now!

That depends entirely on the airport, city & your final destination. As an example, I have been through ZRH a few of time in the last 18 months and used both the heavy rail and tram services between the airport & city. If staying at my usual hotel below the Poly Technic, the tram is a better bet as you get on/off the number 10 tram within 30 m of the hotel. If I was going outside Zurich or to the west side of the city the heavy rail is a better choice. Another factor is the main station itself, while fine outside peak hours it is a rat run at peak hours [it's absolutely huge] and best avoided unless just changing trains.
The point of this comment is that you really cannot compare different airport/cities in general like this, every case is different due to many factors. IMHO AKL needs both, heavy rail from the south line and the proposed light rail. BTW the population of Canton Zurich is only marginally more than AKL.

Gemuser
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:30 am

Do the new fuel taxes (like the Auckland Council-sponsored regional fuel tax) apply to aviation fuel at Auckland Airport?

Cheers,

C.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:27 am

Deepinsider wrote:
Pretty well every reader here will have been to a great variety of
airports around the world. How many would have chosen a tram
through the suburbs, vs a real train to downtown?
Let's imagine Auckland airport 30 years from now and then trying
go through all the land/resource consent stuff, it just wouldn't be
possible with the land use by then. Do it properly...now!


I don’t need to look 30 years ahead to see those problems. They exist today in my opinion.

There really is only 3 options for heavy rail

1. extend onehunga line to the airport. Issues are getting quick elevation to cross the harbour from the current Onehunga line or costly tunnel operation to Mangere.
2. Dedicated line - will never happen due to cost
3. Use Manukau/Puhinui line either as a heavy rail branch or dedicated light rail or similar

I travelled as a backpacker to JFK many years ago, when I arrived I look the sky train to Jamaica Street station and got the Long Island railway from there!

Was perfect and a system I could see Auckland adopting.

Unfortunately AIAL is some distance from any existing rail lines and to join then you’d need to go through entire subdivisions except around Puhunui area but I’d also imagine that would be an engineering nightmare.

Like I said in my earlier post. Creating some super transport hub in Manukau, connect into dedicated airport driverless trains 1-3 cars, sky train style. Stop at car parks, car rental and terminals.

Perhaps even allow domestic checkin at the Manukau station!
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:29 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Do the new fuel taxes (like the Auckland Council-sponsored regional fuel tax) apply to aviation fuel at Auckland Airport?

Cheers,

C.


I can’t see how it would.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:04 am

NZ6 wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
Pretty well every reader here will have been to a great variety of
airports around the world. How many would have chosen a tram
through the suburbs, vs a real train to downtown?
Let's imagine Auckland airport 30 years from now and then trying
go through all the land/resource consent stuff, it just wouldn't be
possible with the land use by then. Do it properly...now!


I don’t need to look 30 years ahead to see those problems. They exist today in my opinion.

There really is only 3 options for heavy rail

1. extend onehunga line to the airport. Issues are getting quick elevation to cross the harbour from the current Onehunga line or costly tunnel operation to Mangere.
2. Dedicated line - will never happen due to cost
3. Use Manukau/Puhinui line either as a heavy rail branch or dedicated light rail or similar

I travelled as a backpacker to JFK many years ago, when I arrived I look the sky train to Jamaica Street station and got the Long Island railway from there!

Was perfect and a system I could see Auckland adopting.

Unfortunately AIAL is some distance from any existing rail lines and to join then you’d need to go through entire subdivisions except around Puhunui area but I’d also imagine that would be an engineering nightmare.

Like I said in my earlier post. Creating some super transport hub in Manukau, connect into dedicated airport driverless trains 1-3 cars, sky train style. Stop at car parks, car rental and terminals.

Perhaps even allow domestic checkin at the Manukau station!

The issue of how HR would travel over or under or through the SW Motorway en route to Puhinui is not an academic one. Whichever option was selected, it would come with a price tag in the hundreds of millions just for that alone.

One thing that’s missing from this debate is an appreciation that such PT decisions will NEVER be taken on the basis of a linear analysis based on just one factor - in this case how to get people to and from the airport most efficiently. You’re well versed in the complexity of airline route/operating decisions and how you can’t just do a back of the envelope calculation and then just extrapolate to a decision. Believe me when I suggest that it’s just the same in other transport areas - there are many, many (and often contradictory) factors involved. In fact a PT network is vastly more complex because you have to build a system to take everyone from everywhere to everywhere else, without codeshare partners. And if you fail to be able to take everyone from everywhere to everywhere else then you get publicly humiliated and with calls for someone to be held publicly accountable.

Heaps of great ideas out there, yes, but Auckland is building a network, not just a single rail line.
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:15 am

DavidByrne wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
Yeah and my agenda is as an airport user. I'm not interested in "network benefits" or economic development along a particular corridor. I'm interested in getting to and from the airport quickly, reliably and in a manner that accounts for the specific needs of airport users (aka bags). None of which a lengthy, semi grade separated tram delivers.

I'm picking that in future you'll probably take a cab, or have someone pick you up - to continue using whatever means of transport you choose to get to the airport now. Even heavy rail was only going to come in a few minutes under the time for LR; time/speed is not the issue. LR will never be the personal transport choice for everyone, but is squarely targeted at getting the most bums on seats out of the Airport and neighbouring suburbs, basically to shift people, efficiently. With reduced traffic there's a good chance that your taxi will have a clearer run to and from the airport and that your journey time will also come down. Problem solved!

The LR times are optimistic. The HR times used were pessimistic and didn’t include things like the 3rd/4th main, general track speed improvements, dwell time improvements etc. Instead of HR being a few minutes faster, in reality it would be closer to 10 minutes faster. If limited stop Services were implemented that would shave even more off that time.
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:17 am

I am booked on the A321NEO in late November, and the aircraft was swapped from 772 on the original booking.
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GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:48 am

This is the New Zealand Aviation thread or have I got it wrong .To be honest the issues around Auckland Airport are of only mild interest or maybe amusement to the rest of New Zealand.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:25 pm

I can't imagine us not discussing access to WLG or any other airport with access issues. Seems relevant to me but not strictly on the topic of aviation I agree. But certainly related. If we started a what-if discussion about functional access to the airport and suggestions for a second airport would you then be interested? Unfortunately this is not on the table. Hence the relevance argument. Surely these elements of access and viability of airport are closely connected? Please correct me if I am wrong. But willing now that the issue has been highlighted to participate in other more aviation related discussion.
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NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:28 pm

I see DL is holding off announcing A330 Neo routes and has put A359 on LAX-HND and SEA-NRT. But 4 aircraft for delivery in 2019. Any hope for an LAX-AKL service and tie-up with VA? Any news on the QF-AA joint venture? When is the deadline?
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Kiwirob
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:14 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
While I support trams in Auckland, it's not an airport transport option for an airport catering for more than 40m passengers in just over 20 years.

We need to think long-term on this one.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/airports/new ... 94&ref=rss

Every airport situation is different and there are very good reasons why a heavy rail connection at Puhinui would compromise the rest of the rail network. A heavy rail connection via Onehunga would be better, both for the public transport network as a whole and also for the operational efficiency of the rail network itself. But a light rail solution via Dominion Road has network benefits as well. What the proponents of the Puhinui link disregard is that this is NOT just about the airport but about a whole swathe of South Auckland which is poorly served by public transport. If it was just about the airport then the investment for the addition of just one(!) new station (as the Puhinui Link would provide) would be an outrageous extravagance.

The current light rail proposal is a perfectly adequate solution and would be by far the best for the PT network as a WHOLE. It will involve a small time penalty of a few minutes for a trip to downtown Auckland compared with a heavy rail link, yes, but seriously, that’s neither here nor there when you’ve been travelling for many hours. As to the suitability of light rail as a solution - I recently used the Edinburgh light rail airport link and was reassured by both its suitability for travellers and its travel time.

The promoters of the public meeting do not represent “public transport users” as their name suggests but have their own political and other agendas. I can elaborate . . .


It’s not a viable solution it’s a terrible solution. We know this because when the tram solution was confirmed it went from and airport line to a Mangere PT solition which the Govt and Auckland Council then told people it wouldn’t really be used by tourists using the airport but by locals and airport staff.

We have been sold a lie and people like you David have bought into it. PT lobbying groups like Greater Auckland have done us all a massive disservice by supporting this daft solution.

I changed my opinion a little, I used to support the line via Onehunga but I’ve changed to thinking a spur from Puhinui is the correct solution. Once the third main line is completed this will be a no brainier, and with regional rail trains could access the airport from Hamilton and Tauranga.

We already have heavy rail in Auckland, we are years away from breaking ground on the Britomart to Mt Roskill tram line and ever further away from that line linking to the airport. Whereas a heavy rail line from Puhinui would be much quicker to build and would likely be in operation before the tram to Mt Roskill is completed.

This is a big undertaking, we have to get it right from the start, getting it right isn’t light rail to AKL.

Funny you should mention the Edinburgh tram, it’s a terrible advertisement for an airport rail line, it’s slow, it fills up at the airport end and often is so full it can’t collect people at other stations. It has limited luggage space, it really is a poor solution. Edinburgh went cheap the canned the planned heavy rail link and went with this, which came in well over budget, many years late its length was cut short.
 
brons2
Posts: 2480
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:28 pm

I have removed New Zealand from my bucket list due to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/03/asia/new ... index.html

I mean, I could back up my phone whilst still in the US and then wipe it while we were taxiing for takeoff, but why bother? There's lots of other places I want to visit in my lifetime that don't involve this sort of hassle.

If anyone can supply the email of an MP in your parliament, I would be happy to email them a similar message.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:45 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
Given that ZQN’s expansion plans are now very much in doubt, perhaps this will be the trigger for the anticipated expansion of WKA to allow for jet movements - to AKL, as already foreshadowed (and possibly Transtasman as well)?
u

Or more sensibly build a brand new Central Otago airport. Making WKA jet capable would be pretty expensive, I’ve read the existing runway has to be reinforced to make it ATR ready. ATR’s can use it for the odd flight but not multiple daily flights.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:51 pm

brons2 wrote:
I have removed New Zealand from my bucket list due to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/03/asia/new ... index.html

I mean, I could back up my phone whilst still in the US and then wipe it while we were taxiing for takeoff, but why bother? There's lots of other places I want to visit in my lifetime that don't involve this sort of hassle.

If anyone can supply the email of an MP in your parliament, I would be happy to email them a similar message.


So you’re happy for TSA and US customs doing the same to foreigners but as an American you’re offended if another country wants to treat you like your country treats others.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/16/us/borde ... index.html
 
Kiwirob
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:19 pm

NZ6 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Do the new fuel taxes (like the Auckland Council-sponsored regional fuel tax) apply to aviation fuel at Auckland Airport?

Cheers,

C.


I can’t see how it would.


I can’t see how they could apply the tax to jet fuel but they do apply to boat fuel which has really pissed of boat owners.
 
NYKiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:50 pm

Just to add my 2 cents.

AKL Airport - If 40M passengers is reached how many are transit and transfer, head south by car, tour bus etc....The actual amount going into AKL CBD is a lot smaller. To me LR seems the best option kills 2 birds with one stone, this can be supplemented by bus. AKL does not have a substantial rail network to draw on so HR does not make economical sense to me we need to be wise with investments. To me the more important thing is to consolidate domestic and Intl into one and have sufficient gates. I live in NY and use LGA mostly and guess what we do not have a dedicated rail line, sure some subways come close but still require bus or taxi. I know they are working on AirTran but that's a couple years away.

Privacy - Agree they do here in the US, and the world is changing, if you are doing nothing wrong then they will not just check your phone, but if are doing something wrong they should have all means to check your phone and see who else maybe involved etc.

Wanaka / Queenstown - I don't think when Ansett started flying the whisper jets into Queenstown they knew what they really started I few into Queenstown a long time ago on Mt Cook from Rotorua and it was like 3 hours plus....but really is not Invercargill not a better airport that has room to grow and keep Wanaka and Queenstown limited otherwise these pristine areas will be spoiled.

PS....Air NZ....when are you placing the A350 order so I can fly home non-stop
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:02 pm

brons2 wrote:
I have removed New Zealand from my bucket list due to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/03/asia/new ... index.html

I mean, I could back up my phone whilst still in the US and then wipe it while we were taxiing for takeoff, but why bother? There's lots of other places I want to visit in my lifetime that don't involve this sort of hassle.



No different to many counties we're customs have the right to inspect anything arriving into the country.

In fact customs already had the ability to search digital devices, just was more of an long process e.g. sezing the device then getting it search by experts. This will allow the process to be more instant and streamlined when needed.

And yes New Zealand is probably one of the worlds hardest countries to get into.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:32 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
The LR times are optimistic. The HR times used were pessimistic and didn’t include things like the 3rd/4th main, general track speed improvements, dwell time improvements etc. Instead of HR being a few minutes faster, in reality it would be closer to 10 minutes faster. If limited stop Services were implemented that would shave even more off that time.


This is due to those who decide how to spend money also get to report on these studies so it's reported in a way which supports their direction and investment wish list.

To use the Puhunui corridor. Heavy rail to Manukau has growth capacity not just in the current services but also additional services. If a dedicated light rail line was built from there to the terminals, it may cost several hundred million but wouldn't be in the billions which a tunnel would or new heavy rail corridor would likely cost. Also, the likes gradient and crossing SH20 are much more achieveable and services overall would be much more reliable than buses who are still heavily restricted by things like traffic lights and driver behaviour.

LamboAston wrote:
I thought this was the aviation thread, not the AT thread. At the moment this thread is all bickering about something better discussed elsewhere.

GW54 wrote:
This is the New Zealand Aviation thread or have I got it wrong .To be honest the issues around Auckland Airport are of only mild interest or maybe amusement to the rest of New Zealand.

Isn't an airport aviation related?

If you follow this thread you would've seen something was in the Herald earlier in the week about AIAL and transport. I can't stand the Herald personally, however, it was a talking point as the monthly thread hadn't kicked off, It seemed to spark interest for a few which is nice as it's always good to share thoughts on a common interest.

These monthly topics are designed for all things NZ aviation, there are topics like airframe movements/deliveries which have little interest to me, however, I frequently read these and allow those who are interested to have that conversation.

My view is that AIAL is an essential asset to the NZ economy and shortly will be servicing 40 million passengers a year. If anyone has travelled State Highway 20 at 6pm on a weeknight will know, it's congested to a standstill.

Have a look at what MEL has been considering for heavy rail. Without looking it up, it's about $15B AU by memory. If we use light rail as our 50-year plan. When will it reach capacity and what would an alternative cost at this point?
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:07 pm

Further to my comments on transport to AIAL.

You will all have seen the Air NZ announcement last month regarding the new regional lounge, ready mid next year at a cost of $60M. It looks to be an awesome lounge and I'm pleased NZ's doing it.

However, I don't think this was picked up last month how this signals the length of time NZ (and JQ) are likely to remain in these terminals and they know it.

I suspect you'll see these two carriers are still in there beyond 2030. I hope I'm wrong but AIAL hasn't even finalised the plans for the new Domestic/Short Haul pier let alone moved the deck chairs around to commence any work including any enabling works.

Why is this an issue? By design, the NZ domestic terminal was at capacity over 10 years ago and now operates over capacity during the week. JQ, as you know, have to bus for all Q300 services and NZ is struggling to add services but the terminal will see more passengers as result of schedule adjustments, longer operating days and larger aircraft A321and widebody use via bus.

With this, however, comes an ever increasing risk of delays as we see in poorly developed airports offshore.

I'm also aware NZ has spoken to AIAL about more remote domestic gates as well.

I'm also hoping all narrowbody short haul services are moved into one terminal (Domestic and AU/PI) with regional off to one side. This will enable greater network connectivity and be futureproofed for when NZ/AU citizens can travel without passports between the two countries.

imagine, WLGAKLCNS or CHCAKLNAN with a 45-minute connection which can be spent in the shelter of one building.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:04 pm

NZ6 wrote:
Further to my comments on transport to AIAL.

You will all have seen the Air NZ announcement last month regarding the new regional lounge, ready mid next year at a cost of $60M. It looks to be an awesome lounge and I'm pleased NZ's doing it.

However, I don't think this was picked up last month how this signals the length of time NZ (and JQ) are likely to remain in these terminals and they know it.

I suspect you'll see these two carriers are still in there beyond 2030. I hope I'm wrong but AIAL hasn't even finalised the plans for the new Domestic/Short Haul pier let alone moved the deck chairs around to commence any work including any enabling works.

Why is this an issue? By design, the NZ domestic terminal was at capacity over 10 years ago and now operates over capacity during the week. JQ, as you know, have to bus for all Q300 services and NZ is struggling to add services but the terminal will see more passengers as result of schedule adjustments, longer operating days and larger aircraft A321and widebody use via bus.

With this, however, comes an ever increasing risk of delays as we see in poorly developed airports offshore.

I'm also aware NZ has spoken to AIAL about more remote domestic gates as well.

I'm also hoping all narrowbody short haul services are moved into one terminal (Domestic and AU/PI) with regional off to one side. This will enable greater network connectivity and be futureproofed for when NZ/AU citizens can travel without passports between the two countries.

imagine, WLGAKLCNS or CHCAKLNAN with a 45-minute connection which can be spent in the shelter of one building.

My understanding is that the plan has always been that when the domestic jet pier gets built, the regional airline end of the terminal will remain more or less as is until a future date where a regional airline pier is built, connected to the same landside building as the domestic jet pier. One question is where the Jetstar regional flights will go when construction starts on the domestic jet pier, since that will eliminate stands 70-73 which they currently use. There definitely isn’t gate space at the Air New Zealand/Air Chathams/Barrier Air/FlyMySky end of the terminal, unless the stands on the other side of taxiway C5 can be used, but that will in turn create a problem of finding space for Barrier Air and FlyMySky; the former has 2 and soon to be 3 Caravans to park there, while the latter has 4 Islanders. Another option could be the Air NZ hardstand area around the corner, in front of Hangar 1, but I’m not sure how willing Air NZ would be to part with that space which they use to park aircraft going to and coming from hangar visits.

Thinking shorter term, the regional boarding experience can be pretty miserable in the tin shed walkways, with exposure to noise and weather, so I would really hope that is addressed sooner rather than later. A good start would be properly enclosing the walkways so that they are more weather- and sound-proof. This could and should be done pretty much right away independent of changes related to the the shifting Air NZ lounge and the eventual domestic jet pier.

Thinking a bit further ahead, with the movement of the Air New Zealand regional lounge to the first floor (is there any idea where that will be - above the regional waiting area, or further along adjacent to the existing domestic lounge?) that could free up space to extend the terminal building east over the valet parking area right to where the walkway to gates 47-50 is, and potentially have more than one landside gate, the set up of which currently creates a fair amount of congestion and confusion. From what I can tell, you could potentially have three landside gates: one serving stands 34, 35, 36, 39, 40; one serving stands 41, 42, 43, 45, 46, 47; and one serving stands 48, 49, 50 and 50C. Instead of one linked walkway system, where seeing people looking lost and confused is a daily occurrence, you could then have three separate walkways which would greatly enhance the passenger experience and also the security of the airside area, and you could also have some windows in the terminal building which again would enhance the passenger experience and help people realise they are in the gate lounge already and their aircraft await them right outside; it is quite funny the number of people who you will hear asking the departure staff “when can I go through to wait at the gate?”, often looking quite worried that they are going to miss their flight because it is five minutes until boarding and they are still in what feels like the general terminal area some way away from where their gate must be.

Meanwhile, I don’t know how much this is related to enabling works for the eventual terminal reconfiguration, but the Cargo Central buildings between Leonard Stevens Drive and Tom Pearce Drive are currently in the process of being demolished.

V/F
Last edited by VirginFlyer on Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:09 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
We have been sold a lie and people like you David have bought into it. PT lobbying groups like Greater Auckland have done us all a massive disservice by supporting this daft solution.

I guess it all depends on what is the "problem" that the "solution" addresses. The proposed airport link was never sold solely as an airport link, with Mangere tacked on afterward; Mangere was always upfront in thinking. It's true that AT did itself no favours by initially highlighting airport connectivity, and the media latched onto the airport as well as being the main focus. However, from early on the project was titled the "SouthWest Multimodal Airport Rapid Transit" (SMART), and this study examined multiple options for serving the wider south-west region, including a mix of articulated and double deck buses on the corridor. Thankfully that option was not chosen or I'd be joining the chorus of those who claim we have been short-changed.

Kiwirob wrote:
I changed my opinion a little, I used to support the line via Onehunga but I’ve changed to thinking a spur from Puhinui is the correct solution. Once the third main line is completed this will be a no brainier, and with regional rail trains could access the airport from Hamilton and Tauranga.

Politically, the Puhinui link is not going to happen, as it would mean that the whole chunk of Mangere that would otherwise have been served by the "airport" line would not be served - not politically acceptable. Already there are projects in motion for significant housing redevelopment along the Mangere section to capitalise on the line. And yes, the construction of the Third Main would certainly ease rail congestion on the Southern Line (and a Fourth Main would probably also be required) but the real bottleneck would then shift to the CRL, which at two tracks only, would either (a) run into congestion issues or (b) be seriously limited as to frequency expansion for the rest of the rail network. Or both. Having a completely separate corridor is a "plus" for the longer-term health of the Auckland rail network.

Kiwirob wrote:
We already have heavy rail in Auckland, we are years away from breaking ground on the Britomart to Mt Roskill tram line and ever further away from that line linking to the airport. Whereas a heavy rail line from Puhinui would be much quicker to build and would likely be in operation before the tram to Mt Roskill is completed.

As noted elsewhere, Puhinui gives a very poor "bang-for-buck" because it adds just one station (and that aimed squarely at just one set of users, airline passengers, not even the staff working in the wider industrial area) and comes with very significant/expensive technical (crossing SH20) and operational (impact on the rest of the rail network) issues.

Kiwirob wrote:
Funny you should mention the Edinburgh tram, it’s a terrible advertisement for an airport rail line, it’s slow, it fills up at the airport end and often is so full it can’t collect people at other stations. It has limited luggage space, it really is a poor solution. Edinburgh went cheap the canned the planned heavy rail link and went with this, which came in well over budget, many years late its length was cut short.

Not my experience at all. If that occurs, it sounds like a capacity issue, which is easier to fix on a light rail network. As for luggage capacity - surely that's an issue that could be taken into account in the design! A recent article showed that the Edinburgh light rail network was performing way ahead of expectations and had actually made a profit (almost unheard of for a PT project). Suggest they might bring the airport surcharge there down a bit!

The crux of this whole "rail to the airport" discussion is whether the airport rail connection is viewed (1) as a single-destination, stand-alone venture, but linking into an existing rail network, or (2) as a fully-integrated part of a wider and more comprehensive PT network. Much though we might prefer an aviation-only focus on this issue, that's never going to fly (no pun intended). The political realities and the needs of South Aucklanders (correctly, in my view) outweigh the needs of airline passengers. Let's not forget that there are already multiple other ways of accessing the airport from the city, and that these will not just go away because there's a new option added.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
Kiwirob
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:47 pm

I think you’ll find most South Aucklanders work in South Auckland, these people don’t have a lot of money I doubt many of them travel into the CBD. IMO the main users of this airport line will be airport passengers. It’s what happens I’m most other airports why would AKL be any different?

I’ve been going to EDI fairly frequently for the past few years, I have given up on the tram, taxi is faster pretty much any time of the day.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:50 pm

brons2 wrote:
I have removed New Zealand from my bucket list due to this:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/03/asia/new ... index.html

I mean, I could back up my phone whilst still in the US and then wipe it while we were taxiing for takeoff, but why bother? There's lots of other places I want to visit in my lifetime that don't involve this sort of hassle.

If anyone can supply the email of an MP in your parliament, I would be happy to email them a similar message.

Misleading. It gives customs the power to get your password so they can search your phone IF there is a reasonable justification to do so (ie you are doing something wrong/suspicious). It doesn’t mean that your average Joe public is going to have their phone searched when crossing the border - unlike the USA I might add which allows searches of anyone.
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:38 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
I think you’ll find most South Aucklanders work in South Auckland, these people don’t have a lot of money I doubt many of them travel into the CBD. IMO the main users of this airport line will be airport passengers. It’s what happens I’m most other airports why would AKL be any different?

I’ve been going to EDI fairly frequently for the past few years, I have given up on the tram, taxi is faster pretty much any time of the day.

I think you’ll find there are a reasonable number of people from South Auckland who do work in and around the city, as well as many others who study at the universities. I imagine that many of those who “don’t have a lot of money” might also appreciate the opportunity to be better connected to centres of employment rather than being told “please remain poor in your poor neighbourhood”...

There are also a lot of people who work at the airport, and who don’t live in the CBD. Both of these realities would seem to point to a need to a networked system which connects the airport and South Auckland to the public transport network, including but not limited to the CBD, as opposed to a limited-stops or non-stop service from the Airport to the CBD.

As a very regular traveller to the airport, my needs would be best served by something which links in to the public transport network seemlessly and enables me to get from where I live to the airport and back without a significant hassle.

Personally, I think the light rail down to Mangere and the airport is one part of the solution. I don’t think it is the only part. I would like to see an automated light metro (similar to the JFK AirTrain) between Puhinui Station and the airport, running at high frequency (say at least every 5 minutes). This would enable a decent connection to the entire public transport network; indeed depending on running patterns Puhinui could enable a single seat journey to every other station on the rail network. Also it could link the proposed Regional Rapid Rail ( https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2017 ... apid-rail/ ) with the airport, which makes more sense than diverting Hamilton and Tauranga trains via the airport and the Onehunga line and increasing journey times between points south and Auckland CBD as a result, thereby reducing the attraction of the RRR.

At present there seems to be talk of using a bus or light rail service from Puhinui to the airport, but buses are going to struggle with the traffic unless given their own right of way, and the passenger experience of using a bus particular if carrying a suitcase is sub-optimal. Light rail is an improvement in that sense, but given there is only one other site between Puhinui and the Airport which would be connected in (the cemetery), I think it is reasonable to ask whether other modes could do a better jon of linking Puhinui Station with the Airport, instead of piggybacking on modes used elsewhere in the network. An automated light metro between Puhinui and the terminal would be quick, grade separated, and relatively inexpensive to operate by not needing drivers. It could also connect with remote parking areas, and other sites on the airport away from the terminal, such as the shopping centre. It could even be extended to Mangere Town Centre as an alternative to bringing light rail all the way into the airport, although that may not be ideal if you still want to offer the option of a single-seat journey to the CBD.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:46 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
I think you’ll find most South Aucklanders work in South Auckland, these people don’t have a lot of money I doubt many of them travel into the CBD. IMO the main users of this airport line will be airport passengers. It’s what happens I’m most other airports why would AKL be any different?

I’ve been going to EDI fairly frequently for the past few years, I have given up on the tram, taxi is faster pretty much any time of the day.

True that many South Aucklanders live and work in South Auckland. But if you ever use the Southern Line at peak hours (which I was doing for most of this year, but in the reverse direction) you'll be aware just how many people DO use that line for travel further into the isthmus. I can't think that an Airport-Mangere-City line will be any different (and it's not just about the CBD, after all, but also about employment in industrial zones in the Onehunga and Mt Roskill areas).

Re travel times: heavy rail to the airport will also not be comparable to a taxi. I suspect that people for whom time is critical will continue to use the taxi, leaving other airport passengers for whom time is not so critical to use the light rail. Good to have choices.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4296
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:21 am

HKG being downgraded from a 300+ seat 772 to a 275 seat code 2 789 - fleet resourcing issues, or is there something more to this? HX has dropped back its AKL presence, so that should be supportive of NZ at HKG. Could a 3rd daily year-round flight be on the cards?

See: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -nov-2018/.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:24 am

Very interesting to see LA codesharing with TN now on PPT - AKL. I'm not sure what the point of this is - IIRC, the IPC - PPT and PPT - AKL flights don't connect well, and I doubt many Aussies and Kiwis would be going to Easter Island this way? Am I missing something?

See: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -aug-2018/.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:26 am

The NZ and SQ alliance has been approved for extension through 2024. Very interesting that CHC was less supportive of this than AKL was. It would be nice to see SQ boost CHC to 10x weekly year-round, boosting connection opportunities (particularly to/from Europe).

See: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/new ... d=12137655.

Cheers,

C.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:27 am

First good pic of A321 ZK-NNA I could find:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielkoe ... 911982745/
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:30 am

Dave the goose making a return to NZ. I'm personally not a fan of the talking animals that NZ has used over the years, but as the article notes - supposedly - "Winning Aussies’ hearts and a swag of awards, Dave has since starred in five of the airline’s Australian campaigns."

See: http://www.bandt.com.au/campaigns/air-n ... dave-goose.

Cheers,

C.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3268
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:33 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Dave the goose making a return to NZ. I'm personally not a fan of the talking animals that NZ has used over the years, but as the article notes - supposedly - "Winning Aussies’ hearts and a swag of awards, Dave has since starred in five of the airline’s Australian campaigns."

See: http://www.bandt.com.au/campaigns/air-n ... dave-goose.

Cheers,

C.


Atleast they haven't used Dave in the New Zealand market, think they learnt there lessions from RIco.
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Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos