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planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:44 am

Australia and Fiji are renegotiating their ASA, and there will be a 20% increase in designated capacity. Really interesting. Could this pave the way for FJ to launch PER? Or maybe a SUV - MEL service? I assume this is more of an FJ thing rather than a VA/JQ thing, given that Fiji previously said it wasn't interested in renegotiating the ASA, because FJ wasn't interested in further Australian expansion?

See: http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/1 ... agreement/.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:45 am

Australia is renegotiating its ASA with the Philippines - any thoughts on what potential airline expansion we may see?

See: http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/1 ... agreement/.

Cheers,

C.
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:41 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Australia and Fiji are renegotiating their ASA, and there will be a 20% increase in designated capacity. Really interesting. Could this pave the way for FJ to launch PER? Or maybe a SUV - MEL service? I assume this is more of an FJ thing rather than a VA/JQ thing, given that Fiji previously said it wasn't interested in renegotiating the ASA, because FJ wasn't interested in further Australian expansion?

See: http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/1 ... agreement/.

Cheers,

C.


What will actually happen is FJ will put the increased capacity entirely onto SYD/MEL/BNE-NAN route with either aircraft upgauges or additional frequencies. As for the Australia-side... expect much of the same with either JQ/VA increasing capacity on existing routes to NAN.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:43 am

Qantas16 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Australia and Fiji are renegotiating their ASA, and there will be a 20% increase in designated capacity. Really interesting. Could this pave the way for FJ to launch PER? Or maybe a SUV - MEL service? I assume this is more of an FJ thing rather than a VA/JQ thing, given that Fiji previously said it wasn't interested in renegotiating the ASA, because FJ wasn't interested in further Australian expansion?

See: http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/1 ... agreement/.

Cheers,

C.


What will actually happen is FJ will put the increased capacity entirely onto SYD/MEL/BNE-NAN route with either aircraft upgauges or additional frequencies. As for the Australia-side... expect much of the same with either JQ/VA increasing capacity on existing routes to NAN.


I didn’t realise they were maxed out, I did always wonder why FJ didn’t fly a 330 to MEL, especially on the overnight sector. Was ADL part of the previous bilateral?
 
HM7
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:07 am

VH-OEI just went maintenance. Assuming that means shes probably safe from retirement for some time
CRJ200, Q400, E175, E195, MD88, MD90, A320, A332, A380, B717, B734, B738, B739, B752, B762, B763ER, B789, B744, B744ER
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:17 am

QF to upgrade SYD-DPS to A332 from 17 Dec 18 to 29 Jan 19, looks like EBG and EBL will operate these flights

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-upgrade ... irbus-a330
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:20 am

CX to go 6 weekly to ADL from 28 Oct 18, ADL will now see a split schedule operated

https://www.ausbt.com.au/cathay-pacific ... ng-flights
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oskarclare
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:10 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
planemanofnz wrote:
Australia is renegotiating its ASA with the Philippines - any thoughts on what potential airline expansion we may see?

See: http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/1 ... agreement/.

Cheers,

C.


CEBU-BNE was talked about so hopefully this eventuates. Also more capacity on BNE-MNL might happen, loads working out very well now wirh the A321neo.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:17 pm

A couple of equipment changes at PER for Saturday

TG operated by 789, it’s also delayed arriving at 930am
SA operating A332 instead of usual A340

QF64 also stopping off at PER, current ETA 1200 pm
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planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:34 pm

smi0006 wrote:
Was ADL part of the previous bilateral?

No - IIRC SYD, MEL, BNE and PER were/are restricted.

Cheers,

C.
 
VHZNE
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:07 am

QF 747 OEI positioned to HKG yesterday for a D Check.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:37 am

VHZNE wrote:
QF 747 OEI positioned to HKG yesterday for a D Check.

So there goes the idea that the 747-400ERs will be retired as their heavy maintenance comes due.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
travelhound
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:48 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
VHZNE wrote:
QF 747 OEI positioned to HKG yesterday for a D Check.

So there goes the idea that the 747-400ERs will be retired as their heavy maintenance comes due.

V/F

Is a d check on the 744 required every six or eight years. These aircraft are 2002/2003 vintage
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:46 am

travelhound wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
VHZNE wrote:
QF 747 OEI positioned to HKG yesterday for a D Check.

So there goes the idea that the 747-400ERs will be retired as their heavy maintenance comes due.

V/F

Is a d check on the 744 required every six or eight years. These aircraft are 2002/2003 vintage


It does seem odd timing given a 2003 delivery, a 744 D check is every 6 years give or take. Are we sure it’s not a C check which is every 2 years? Maybe it’s out of sink with this aircraft atleast?

Yes some were saying they thought OEI could be the next to go.
 
VHZNE
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:58 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
travelhound wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
So there goes the idea that the 747-400ERs will be retired as their heavy maintenance comes due.

V/F

Is a d check on the 744 required every six or eight years. These aircraft are 2002/2003 vintage


It does seem odd timing given a 2003 delivery, a 744 D check is every 6 years give or take. Are we sure it’s not a C check which is every 2 years? Maybe it’s out of sink with this aircraft atleast?

Yes some were saying they thought OEI could be the next to go.


I'm pretty sure it is a D Check as I read that at another fairly trustworthy source, although it could be a C Check. Although, in saying that, OEH appeared to have just had one done as it was in HKG for nearly 2 months where as one would expect a C Check to take about one month.

On another note, OEJ must not be too far off either.
 
TasFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:23 am

qf789 wrote:
QF to upgrade SYD-DPS to A332 from 17 Dec 18 to 29 Jan 19, looks like EBG and EBL will operate these flights

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-upgrade ... irbus-a330


Let's hope they redeploy this 737 on SYD-HBA for peak season; although, in the words of General Gray from Independence Day: "we have sufficient aircraft for the battle plan, but pilots are coming up short".
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:59 am

Seems Perth Airport and Qantas are talking again.

https://thewest.com.au/business/aviatio ... b88981686z
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:50 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
It does seem odd timing given a 2003 delivery, a 744 D check is every 6 years give or take. Are we sure it’s not a C check which is every 2 years? Maybe it’s out of sink with this aircraft atleast?


My understanding is that they brought a whole bunch of maintenance work forward to coincide with the reconfigurations in 2011-12. Certainly there was mention at the time of the 744 fleet entering a "maintenance honeymoon" period with no major work required for several years.
 
mh124
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:31 pm

waoz1 wrote:
Seems Perth Airport and Qantas are talking again.

https://thewest.com.au/business/aviatio ... b88981686z


I think the fact that their renegotiating the T3/T4 domestic terminal lease is critical - and it certainly puts all the recent blustery headlines into context. Now it all makes sense. Unfortunately, looking at the irritation qantas has for very nice terminals like CBR, I fear storm clouds are ahead. If it comes to it, I guess the airport can threaten renew the QF lease, and with QF forced to move to T1, they won't want to look crap with the excellent Virgin Pier just a literal stones throw away.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:17 am

Forget about PER-CDG, if SAA goes bankrupt QF needs to be ready to step in with PER-JNB right away.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:22 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Forget about PER-CDG, if SAA goes bankrupt QF needs to be ready to step in with PER-JNB right away.


Which they won’t do with a 789, they would use an A332, if PER sorts itself out there’s probably a few routes QF could add there.
 
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JBusworth
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:44 am

If and when PER sorts out their issues with QF, flights to AKL and CDG year round as well as JNB seasonally are sure to follow. It is clear that QF wants to expand ops in PER
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:48 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Forget about PER-CDG, if SAA goes bankrupt QF needs to be ready to step in with PER-JNB right away.

Which they won’t do with a 789, they would use an A332, if PER sorts itself out there’s probably a few routes QF could add there.


It's already been reported how close QF came to launching PER-JB with an A330 but then 'pulled the plug' due to PER's intransigence over T1 vs T3/T4.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-scraps- ... rg-flights
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:53 am

mh124 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
Seems Perth Airport and Qantas are talking again.

https://thewest.com.au/business/aviatio ... b88981686z


I think the fact that their renegotiating the T3/T4 domestic terminal lease is critical - and it certainly puts all the recent blustery headlines into context. Now it all makes sense. Unfortunately, looking at the irritation qantas has for very nice terminals like CBR, I fear storm clouds are ahead. If it comes to it, I guess the airport can threaten renew the QF lease, and with QF forced to move to T1, they won't want to look crap with the excellent Virgin Pier just a literal stones throw away.


In fairness CBR within the industry is known as the worst airport to work with, they have astronomical fees to hold the port simply as a diversion port! Be fascinating to know if the snow family released their grip on the airport how much more traffic could be stimulated.

Given PAPLs ability to deliver projects on time, and collaborate operationally, I can certainly appreciate QFs desire to control their own terminal....
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:53 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Forget about PER-CDG, if SAA goes bankrupt QF needs to be ready to step in with PER-JNB right away.

Which they won’t do with a 789, they would use an A332, if PER sorts itself out there’s probably a few routes QF could add there.


It's already been reported how close QF came to launching PER-JB with an A330 but then 'pulled the plug' due to PER's intransigence over T1 vs T3/T4.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-scraps- ... rg-flights


Exactly. Why don’t you think they will do CDG aswell? I find it pretty ridiculous that the airport company in PER can block the biggest airline or any airline for that matter launching a route over which terminal they use, I get they are concerned it could affect SA but it could also grow the route.
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:56 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Which they won’t do with a 789, they would use an A332, if PER sorts itself out there’s probably a few routes QF could add there.


It's already been reported how close QF came to launching PER-JB with an A330 but then 'pulled the plug' due to PER's intransigence over T1 vs T3/T4.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-scraps- ... rg-flights


Exactly. Why don’t you think they will do CDG aswell? I find it pretty ridiculous that the airport company in PER can block the biggest airline or any airline for that matter launching a route over which terminal they use, I get they are concerned it could affect SA but it could also grow the route.



If SA did go under if QF had to fill the void would that work with AirNZ even with new alliance or could they do it instead of QF

As SA and NZ codeshare through in both directions
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:01 am

waoz1 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:

It's already been reported how close QF came to launching PER-JB with an A330 but then 'pulled the plug' due to PER's intransigence over T1 vs T3/T4.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-scraps- ... rg-flights


Exactly. Why don’t you think they will do CDG aswell? I find it pretty ridiculous that the airport company in PER can block the biggest airline or any airline for that matter launching a route over which terminal they use, I get they are concerned it could affect SA but it could also grow the route.



If SA did go under if QF had to fill the void would that work with AirNZ even with new alliance or could they do it instead of QF

As SA and NZ codeshare through in both directions



The QF/NZ alliance is only domestic. NZ wouldn’t do it, they would only consider JNB if it could be done non stop from AKL. I’d say QF would jump in pretty quickly.
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:08 am

NZ doesn’t have the capacity available to open a new route like PER-JNB in the short term, do they? And if we are looking longer term then chances are QF will have already entered the market so it will be a simple ramp up for them if SA were to bow out (which I think is probably unlikely to happen anyway).

Hopefully we will see the route launched for NW19 if the airport can get its act together.
 
travelhound
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:13 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Which they won’t do with a 789, they would use an A332, if PER sorts itself out there’s probably a few routes QF could add there.


It's already been reported how close QF came to launching PER-JB with an A330 but then 'pulled the plug' due to PER's intransigence over T1 vs T3/T4.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-scraps- ... rg-flights


Exactly. Why don’t you think they will do CDG aswell? I find it pretty ridiculous that the airport company in PER can block the biggest airline or any airline for that matter launching a route over which terminal they use, I get they are concerned it could affect SA but it could also grow the route.


I suspect the agreements Perth Airport have with QANTAS are subject to fair completion laws with regards to access and as such any negotiations for extra flights / use of alternative terminals would have quite a few hurdles to cross.

In short, Perth Airport can't be seen to give QANTAS preferencial treatment or make allowances that give QANTAS a competitive commercial advantage over other airlines.

I think we have to remember QANTAS are asking Perth Airport to essentially be a risk partner and be treated differently.

There is a fair amount of rhetoric around these issues. I think we need this to play out and make judgement once some type of agreement has been made.
Last edited by travelhound on Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:14 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Forget about PER-CDG, if SAA goes bankrupt QF needs to be ready to step in with PER-JNB right away.

Which they won’t do with a 789, they would use an A332, if PER sorts itself out there’s probably a few routes QF could add there.


It's already been reported how close QF came to launching PER-JB with an A330 but then 'pulled the plug' due to PER's intransigence over T1 vs T3/T4.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-scraps- ... rg-flights


Does QF have much 330 capacity add any additional routes? Seems they are pretty tightly run atm too. Wonder if that has impacted the PER-AKL season route, is it returning this year?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:43 am

smi0006 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Which they won’t do with a 789, they would use an A332, if PER sorts itself out there’s probably a few routes QF could add there.


It's already been reported how close QF came to launching PER-JB with an A330 but then 'pulled the plug' due to PER's intransigence over T1 vs T3/T4.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-scraps- ... rg-flights


Does QF have much 330 capacity add any additional routes? Seems they are pretty tightly run atm too. Wonder if that has impacted the PER-AKL season route, is it returning this year?


PER-AKL isn’t returning this year after there was talk of it going year round to connect to The LHR service, no idea why. They can take more A330’s off domestic which they have been doing already.
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:54 am

Surely Qantas only has a long term lease on T4 and not T3 which they run international services out of.
After VA left T3 the airport must have more control, I think the airport is just trying to get consolidated terminals which you cannot blame them.

With a new train line being built outside international side of the airport at a cost of around $2 billion the longer Qantas drag it out the more tax payers will have to fork out for an underused rail line which will be ready in next couple of years.
 
log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:55 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:

It's already been reported how close QF came to launching PER-JB with an A330 but then 'pulled the plug' due to PER's intransigence over T1 vs T3/T4.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-scraps- ... rg-flights


Does QF have much 330 capacity add any additional routes? Seems they are pretty tightly run atm too. Wonder if that has impacted the PER-AKL season route, is it returning this year?


PER-AKL isn’t returning this year after there was talk of it going year round to connect to The LHR service, no idea why. They can take more A330’s off domestic which they have been doing already.


They can't remove them from domestic services because they need them to cover uncrewed 737s which are facing a significant pilot shortage due to training bottlenecks
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:43 am

log0008 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

Does QF have much 330 capacity add any additional routes? Seems they are pretty tightly run atm too. Wonder if that has impacted the PER-AKL season route, is it returning this year?


PER-AKL isn’t returning this year after there was talk of it going year round to connect to The LHR service, no idea why. They can take more A330’s off domestic which they have been doing already.


They can't remove them from domestic services because they need them to cover uncrewed 737s which are facing a significant pilot shortage due to training bottlenecks


Hence 744’s on SYD-PER up to 2-3 daily, I think this is only until late October?
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:58 am

waoz1 wrote:
Surely Qantas only has a long term lease on T4 and not T3 which they run international services out of.
After VA left T3 the airport must have more control, I think the airport is just trying to get consolidated terminals which you cannot blame them.

With a new train line being built outside international side of the airport at a cost of around $2 billion the longer Qantas drag it out the more tax payers will have to fork out for an underused rail line which will be ready in next couple of years.


But isn’t PAPL to blame for that? They haven held off investment in expanding the international precinct and the new QF pier on the other side of international? I’m sure once the new domestic pier is built QF would move straight over, didn’t original plans have it due to be finished last year?

I know in the ASA at MEL and SYD Despite agreement on capacity expansion and investment the airports are the ones to define the triggers before building can commence- thus why MEL international is a mess. As such I would assume QF have agreed to the investment, but PAPL is the one holding off on the build. As such why should QF move? Border force and quarantine charges should be captured in the passenger movement charge, and in taxes applied to tickets, as such PAPL shouldn’t be subsiding these.
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:01 am

smi0006 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
Surely Qantas only has a long term lease on T4 and not T3 which they run international services out of.
After VA left T3 the airport must have more control, I think the airport is just trying to get consolidated terminals which you cannot blame them.

With a new train line being built outside international side of the airport at a cost of around $2 billion the longer Qantas drag it out the more tax payers will have to fork out for an underused rail line which will be ready in next couple of years.


But isn’t PAPL to blame for that? They haven held off investment in expanding the international precinct and the new QF pier on the other side of international? I’m sure once the new domestic pier is built QF would move straight over, didn’t original plans have it due to be finished last year?

I know in the ASA at MEL and SYD Despite agreement on capacity expansion and investment the airports are the ones to define the triggers before building can commence- thus why MEL international is a mess. As such I would assume QF have agreed to the investment, but PAPL is the one holding off on the build. As such why should QF move? Border force and quarantine charges should be captured in the passenger movement charge, and in taxes applied to tickets, as such PAPL shouldn’t be subsiding these.


Perth airport have been focusing more in T1 international expansion. Not sure how long QF lease has on t4 so they might not want to move, not sure Perth airport could force them. However they have the upperhand when it comes to T3.

The T1 expansion has been spoken about for atleast 10 years and still no start date or formal plan.
 
redroo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:02 pm

Fundamentally there isn’t the space on the T1 side of PER for all of qantas operations. So until PAPL build a new terminal there isn’t much that can be done... unless they’re trying to get qantas to pay for it, which wouldn’t surprise me.
 
mh124
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:10 pm

My guess it would be a similar arrangement to PAPL's deal with Virgin for the Virgin Pier?
I presume Virgin didn't pay up front. Does it add the fee onto its ticket costs over a prolonged number of years?
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:18 am

MH149 KUL-MEL diverted to PER this morning for medical emergency onboard


https://thewest.com.au/news/perth/malay ... b88983844z
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:32 am

Re SA, sorry if ive missed it but is it actually close to going under? Or is that speculative? I cant see why the SA Govt wouldn't bail it like it always does....

OTOH, i do see if QF entered PER-JNB it would probably have a major impact on SA given that is probably one of the better performing routes it has. QF would wipe out its profitability and put further pressure on it....
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:37 am

redroo wrote:
Fundamentally there isn’t the space on the T1 side of PER for all of qantas operations. So until PAPL build a new terminal there isn’t much that can be done... unless they’re trying to get qantas to pay for it, which wouldn’t surprise me.


I doubt PER are wanting QF to pay for their new terminal in T1. It is not in the airport operator's interest to have an airline controlling the long-term operations of terminals which is why T1 at MEL will revert to APAM at the conclusion of the current lease term.

It seems the main sticking points between QF and PER are the timing as to when QF will move across to an extended T1 and that PER is not really interested in investing any further in T3/4 which are not part of the airport's long-term plans.
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keithball288
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:57 am

Just Wondering If anyone knows why Cathay Pacific CX162 is so late taking off From SYD. It was suppose to take off at 11.05am and now Estimated at 1.05pm.
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:35 am

tullamarine wrote:
redroo wrote:
Fundamentally there isn’t the space on the T1 side of PER for all of qantas operations. So until PAPL build a new terminal there isn’t much that can be done... unless they’re trying to get qantas to pay for it, which wouldn’t surprise me.


I doubt PER are wanting QF to pay for their new terminal in T1. It is not in the airport operator's interest to have an airline controlling the long-term operations of terminals which is why T1 at MEL will revert to APAM at the conclusion of the current lease term.

It seems the main sticking points between QF and PER are the timing as to when QF will move across to an extended T1 and that PER is not really interested in investing any further in T3/4 which are not part of the airport's long-term plans.


I confess I’m not familiar in the details - whilst not a lease, this is what airport companies expect. They will hike the prices prior to ddevelopment to fund construction.

Melbourne tried this with their new runway. Prices for carriers increased this July.... yet no confirmed date for construction.

I’d say development is the key challenge with QF PER debate. Maybe by not using T1 QF have a locked in price for their domestic operations, cheaper than international operations - causing a budget hole for PAPL to fund construction??
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:20 am

travelhound wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:

It's already been reported how close QF came to launching PER-JB with an A330 but then 'pulled the plug' due to PER's intransigence over T1 vs T3/T4.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-scraps- ... rg-flights


Exactly. Why don’t you think they will do CDG aswell? I find it pretty ridiculous that the airport company in PER can block the biggest airline or any airline for that matter launching a route over which terminal they use, I get they are concerned it could affect SA but it could also grow the route.


I suspect the agreements Perth Airport have with QANTAS are subject to fair completion laws with regards to access and as such any negotiations for extra flights / use of alternative terminals would have quite a few hurdles to cross.

In short, Perth Airport can't be seen to give QANTAS preferencial treatment or make allowances that give QANTAS a competitive commercial advantage over other airlines.

I think we have to remember QANTAS are asking Perth Airport to essentially be a risk partner and be treated differently.

There is a fair amount of rhetoric around these issues. I think we need this to play out and make judgement once some type of agreement has been made.


There is a fair bit of rhetoric. However, QF is PER's biggest customer and therefore they are in a position to demand better "terms" and be treated differently. This is standard business practice. The same way Coca Cola offers better terms to Woolworths than to your local IGA. However, airports in Australia are monopolies so they can usually dictate and make airlines pay for anything. Profit margins for airports 50-70%. Compared to 5-15% for QF and VA.

QF's biggest gripe with Australian airports, PER especially, is that it doesn't want to pay for upgrades where there's little incentive for them and whereby QF is essentially funding terminal expansion and improvements for competitors.

One advantage QF has is that Australian airports are becoming very reliant on international passenger growth. This growth helps airports get better terms from retailers. However, this growth is starting to slow down, and in PER's case falling. So it's quite possible QF are starting to use its own market power in the same way Australian airports use theirs, hence the stalemate and why QF is playing this out through the media.
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:12 pm

JBusworth wrote:
If and when PER sorts out their issues with QF, flights to AKL and CDG year round as well as JNB seasonally are sure to follow. It is clear that QF wants to expand ops in PER


Its all good and well if these routes come into fruition however there is one major problem with operating all these routes and that is gate space. Assuming that as agreed between Perth Airport and QF prior to LHR starting that QF would relocate to T1 by the end of 2025 between now and then QF would want to add a few routes namely JNB, AKL and CDG at least, maybe even FRA and HKG. One would presume CDG and a FRA service would be timed similar to LHR so all 3 flights operate under the western hub which has been talked up previously by QF. AKL has normally departed around the same time as flights to LHR and in the future CDG and FRA would depart, JNB would arrive and depart around the same time as flights from Europe arrive and then depart to their respective east coast cities. Under the current arrangement of the swing area at T3 there are 3 gates being 18,19 and 20 however all 3 gates being used at the same time can only happen with narrowbodies, when widebodies are parked at gates 18 and 20, gate 19 can not be used. Essentially it would be the same at T1 if Virgin used gates 43,44,45 or 46 for an A332, it would wipe out the gate on either side. Perth Airport know that growth is limited by using T3 and would be reluctant to spend any more money to accommodate this particularly when (from who I have spoken to) that Terminal 5 would start construction in the next year or two.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:59 pm

qf789 wrote:
QF to upgrade SYD-DPS to A332 from 17 Dec 18 to 29 Jan 19, looks like EBG and EBL will operate these flights

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-upgrade ... irbus-a330


When are they scheduled to be refitted? Qantas is really dragging the chain on this one.
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moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:32 pm

I think on fleet thread it had been suggested one this year (noting EBL is currently in BNE) and one early next.

Normally scheduled alongside other major maintenance that also needs the bulk of the cabin removed.

If they restrict these birds to domestic, AKL or DPS I think that's reasonable - don't really need flat beds on those routes

Whereas in the past week EBG has done HKGx4, PEKx2, MNL and CGK. An unwelcome surprise on the return overnight legs.
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:51 pm

As a slight aside to the QF / PER discussion, has there been anything to say whether QF will again operate PER-AKL over summer?
 
a7ala
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:07 pm

DeltaB717 wrote:
As a slight aside to the QF / PER discussion, has there been anything to say whether QF will again operate PER-AKL over summer?


They wont be.
 
patschwarz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:56 am

Just saw this on routesonline, can anyone confirm: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -nov-2018/

Thanks
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