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TK787
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Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:48 pm

Happy Fall to all Turkish Aviation fans, welcome :)
Please find last month’s thread here: Turkish Aviation September 2018



Here are some news, rumors from last month to start the conversation:

-3rd TK 77F, TC-LJN (a.net picture above) joins the TK Cargo fleet. TK Cargo now flies to 85 destinations in the world, wow!!
-Now that we have learned TK will start IST-EWR in August 2019 with Daily A333, could MCO, SEA, DFW be next?
-It was a surprise to learn that TK will have 1-2-1 "J" seating in its new 789 and 359s, using the Thompson Vantage XL.
-And with the announcement of new Italian designed TK uniforms coming in next month, maybe we might see a small change in the TK livery. I see in pictures that the new J seats have brownish accents. Maybe those could be aligned with the new uniform colors. Same thing with the headrest colors on LH equipment.
-Now some rumors :) When will TK fly to Australia and with what equipment and in what config? Bilateral situation is one problem, TK wanting to fly to SYD or MEL non-stop is another. Maybe with the arrival of 789/359 we might see a IST-PER flight. Not ideal but I just don’t see TK getting a sub category of few jets just to fly IST-SYD with a huge payload penalty with under 250 pax. It is just not in line with TK’s business plan.
-Another rumor is how did Turkey get a gift VIP 748 from Qatar. From what I heard, it was the President Erdogan who asked for the plane. TC-TRK, now, is being painted and searched for security/bugs and stuff, no interior alterations planned for the moment. But, I imagine it will eventually get some security/military options added in the coming months and it will become the number one VIP plane. 340-500 will become the backup, and they will keep the 332 just in case. During the UN meeting last week, both 345 and 332 made it to NYC, dropped off the President at JFK and eventually parked at Stewart International. Next year, expecting all 3 to make the flight.
-Finally, my latest rumor is about the Istanbul New Airport. I seriously can not believe one month out we don’t know when it will be open. One month out, we still don’t know the name. Just incredible. Reality show goes on, keep the ratings high, keep people watching/guessing. Just like here in the USA. What I heard is, about the name of the airport. The government is split if they should name it R.T.Erdogan airport or not. Again, rumors.... Next month, hopefully when I start the new thread we will know few more things... Insallah :)

Welcome and please continue with your news, views, rumors, pictures and good old sense of humor :)
Safe travels and Happy Landings to all.
 
G-CIVP
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:06 pm

The new IST aiports is supposed to open on Republic Day on the 29th October. I would like to know if the locals think whether this will realistically happen.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:18 pm

G-CIVP wrote:
The new IST aiports is supposed to open on Republic Day on the 29th October. I would like to know if the locals think whether this will realistically happen.

That is not the case.
Latest info was; (First Scenario)
Current Istanbul Airport, after serving the remaining TK Only flights between 16:00-23:00, closes on October 30th.
No flights to either the current IST or the New Airport between Oct30th 23:00-Oct31st 11:00.
Istanbul New Airport opens Oct 31st:
-From 11:00-16:00 ONLY to TK flights
-From 16:00-21:00 ONLY to TK, OnurAir and AtlasGlobal flights.
-after 21:00 OPEN to ALL.
But like you said, on Oct 29th, there will be a ribbon cutting ceremony and a handful of Domestic TK flights, maybe 3 to ESB.
That is all possible.

Second scenario says, after ribbon cutting on Oct29th and the timetable above, TK will base few planes at the new airport and will only operate few flights (maybe to ESB, ADB,....) but will keep ALL its operation at the current IST until the end of the year.
I have no idea what will other airlines do with this scenario. Most likely they will move to the new airport. Onur, Atlas and all Foreign airlines will start using the new airport starting Oct31st 21:00.

a.net member "mafaky" please help with latest info. Thank you.
 
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OA260
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:01 am

Thanks for a new thread . This will certainly be a very interesting month. Lets see what happens over the next few weeks. Im sure the media are like vultures ready to attack if things dont go right.
 
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BOEING777EK
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:38 am

Is the new airport still scheduled to open in October? Or has it shifted till December?
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:20 am

Regarding the Istanbul New Airport (INA) and the last days' developments:

One thing is for sure: There will be a ribbon cutting ceremony on the 29th of October, unless there may be some natural disaster (an eathquake, a typhoon, or the like!)

Now if we follow the Book Rules: There is a NOTAM already in effect (which was announced a couple of months ago). This NOTAM is in pretty much accordance with what TK787 has mentioned below (the first option). Unless this NOTAM is cancelled or revised (and there must be some international deadline for this...) we have to "assume" that all civil airline operations will be shifted to INA, starting afternoon hours of the 31st.

I personally think, under the given circumstances, this will be next to impossible.

However, I prefer not to comment on the alternative(s) as there are more than one scenarios. I hope one of these will clarify within the next 10 days or so.

However, I will also remain sceptic about the validity and successful conclusion of that final scenario, before it's tried and fully tested. I mean, some unpredicted things may be discovered while the testing period (as you can see, I prefer not to mention more specifics on this testing period...), this so-called "final scenario" may still be subject to new amendments and timeline. I will keep you notified, once things more clarify as per that date!

IMHO, the so-called "opening" of INA (on 29th Oct.) will serve three purposes:
1) First and foremost, it will satisfy the ego of the President Mr. Erdogan and his associates as well as millions of mostly blind followers. That "We've made it!..." satisfaction. I don't underestimate all the hard work done to reach the current stage in the construction (and even in the marketing) at INA, but I think they really need(ed) another full year. The BOTS Contract has been prepared in much short sightedness!...
2) INA will be declared"operational" at the deadline date, so IGA (the BOTS Consortium) will not pay any fines for getting delayed!
3) The Pax Guarantee Taximeter, as allocated by the State, will start tickling and INA will eventually be subsidized for an "empty airport". (More on this, later during the week; hopefully)

In conclusion: pls. bear for a few more days to find out what will happen and how...
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
gokmengs
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:09 pm

I wish everyone a great October. If you guys remember I said in September thread as "work in progress" this will accomplish few things;
the ribbon cutting ego, the promise to IGA to start the taximeter for pax guarantee, so even if 500 pax use the airport the consortium will be paid X amount promised on the contract. So this showboating will cost the taxpayers a lot of euros.
So the airport will open and operate with few flights the NOTAM will be revised, and IST will operate for a few more months till they complete (and I say this loosely) to some kind of decent level, and move IST with a big production etc, I still think the earliest that should be is around April, but they will push for January.
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:59 pm

All the best to TK and the new airport. Will be something new to experience when the 787s & A350s arrive. And with new uniforms to go as well.
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:38 pm

Interesting flight path for TK 6 - ORD-IST

Image

It however shows landed on Flightaware :)
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:33 pm

Last minute status, on INA:

1) Opening and ribbon cutting ceremony will be carried out on 29th October, as planned.
2) All airlines and associated contractors will be redeployed to INA (from Ataturk Airport) during 30-31 December 2018.

Hopefully finer details will be posted in due course.

This has been officially declared by State Airports Authority during today --- DHMI (3rd October).

Pls. refer to below (regretfully, in Turkish, only; inclusive of DHMI's announcement, also providing reasons why for the postponement. DHMI points out that this 2 months' delay period will be utilised for terminal integration and orientation tests, etc.

As it may have been posted here before: There would be 3 mini ORAT sessions at INA with fake pax. etc. The first of these was done during last week of Sept. The 2nd test scheduled for the first week of October was pulled on on 10th and yesterday it was postponed to the 16th. The third one (scheduled for the second week of October) will probably be further postponed.

On the other hand, we haven't yet head anything about the approval/international certification visits from ICAO and/o TSA/USA.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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AirbusA343
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:42 pm

Flightsimboy wrote:
Interesting flight path for TK 6 - ORD-IST


It however shows landed on Flightaware :)

Flightradar has been horrible for TK flights recently. I've seen things similar to what you've posted and as soon as flights land, tracking stops unless they go near gates 201-208. I use Planefinder along with Flightaware now, not the best quality but it'll do.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:01 pm

mafaky wrote:
Last minute status, on INA:

1) Opening and ribbon cutting ceremony will be carried out on 29th October, as planned.
2) All airlines and associated contractors will be redeployed to INA (from Ataturk Airport) during 30-31 December 2018.

Hopefully finer details will be posted in due course.

This has been officially declared by State Airports Authority during today --- DHMI (3rd October).

Pls. refer to below (regretfully, in Turkish, only; inclusive of DHMI's announcement, also providing reasons why for the postponement. DHMI points out that this 2 months' delay period will be utilised for terminal integration and orientation tests, etc.

As it may have been posted here before: There would be 3 mini ORAT sessions at INA with fake pax. etc. The first of these was done during last week of Sept. The 2nd test scheduled for the first week of October was pulled on on 10th and yesterday it was postponed to the 16th. The third one (scheduled for the second week of October) will probably be further postponed.

On the other hand, we haven't yet head anything about the approval/international certification visits from ICAO and/o TSA/USA.


Thanks for the update as always. I found the link in few other sites. Looks official to me.
So, what is the ribbon cutting for, I don't get it. At least in other scenarios, there would be few flights a day. So no flights for two months, NONE??
http://www.kokpit.aero/dhmi-yeni-havalimani-tasinma (Turkish Only)
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:37 pm

Things have not been clarified and detailed, yet, dear TK787.

This coming Friday, DHMI will be briefing all parties involved: maybe after this meeting we may come to know something more...

It seems (at least to me) there will be some TK flights from INA during that 2-month period. These flights will also serve as "test beds" on the airline's side. But I have no idea about the number of flights or the number/models of TK planes to get involved. As more details surface, I will hopefully keep you updated. We also need to see, how much of the inside of the Terminal will be really ready by the 29th. and then how it will progress for any missing items.

Insiders forecast that the completion of the entire Phase 1A structure (other buildings, warehouses, some part of the Cargo City and the like....) may take till May 2019, but hopefully all commercial passenger flights at Ataturk will be terminated by Dec.31st and all will be switched over to INA.

That "ribbon cutting" ceremony will faciliate for (as already mentioned below):1) First and foremost, it will satisfy the ego of the President Mr. Erdogan and his associates as well as millions of mostly blind followers. That "We've made it!..." satisfaction. I don't underestimate all the hard work done to reach the current stage in the construction (and even in the marketing) at INA, but I think they really need(ed) another full year. The BOTS Contract has been prepared in much short sightedness!...
2) INA will be declared"operational" at the deadline date, so IGA (the BOTS Consortium) will not pay any fines for getting delayed!
3) The Pax Guarantee Taximeter, as allocated by the State, will start tickling and IGA will eventually be subsidized for a practically "empty airport".

Not to mention the slaughter of several dozens of innocent sheep! (As a Turk/Moslem you know what that precisely means!) :x :banghead:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
leftyboarder
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:59 am

The really weird thing is, no one seems to care for the passengers. If I were a passenger booking a ticket on TK (or any other airline flying to IST) I'd like to know where I'll be landing so I could make arrangements. We are talking about 25 days from now. So if I book an IST-ESB flight on November 10 for example, would I be flying out of IST or new IST and who will inform me when? This is bad PR.
 
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OA260
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:03 am

leftyboarder wrote:
The really weird thing is, no one seems to care for the passengers. If I were a passenger booking a ticket on TK (or any other airline flying to IST) I'd like to know where I'll be landing so I could make arrangements. We are talking about 25 days from now. So if I book an IST-ESB flight on November 10 for example, would I be flying out of IST or new IST and who will inform me when? This is bad PR.


I know a few people who are avoiding TK and IST purely for this reason . Its bad management .
 
B747forever
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:28 am

I understand that Mr. Erdogan really wants to do the ribbon cutting on the original date, but this whole thing is just a self made problem. The best thing for TK and everyone else would be to push back the opening date of the airport. No one benefits from the current state of uncertainty. I doubt anyone would see it as a failure to push back the opening a few months bearing in mind how big the project is, except a few persons ego. One shouldn’t rush such a massive task to replace a major airport before everything is ready.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
G-CIVP
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:57 pm

But what is the local infrastructure like? For example, are new airport hotels being built? Is there a fast transit link to the centre of Istanbul? While I appreciate that IST had issues, at least it was functional!
 
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mercure1
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:31 am

10th A330F for TK, TC-JOO (formerly with MAS) arrived in Istanbul from Marana Arizona on the 3rd.

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9082679
mercure f-wtcc
 
stylo777
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:11 am

G-CIVP wrote:
But what is the local infrastructure like? For example, are new airport hotels being built? Is there a fast transit link to the centre of Istanbul? While I appreciate that IST had issues, at least it was functional!

Nope, all of those have not been built yet or they just started with the construction.
In fact, the main road leading to the airport is not even ready. Really bad management. Instead of coming with his aircraft or flying over with helicopter, he (erdogan) really should come via roads and see.
 
gokmengs
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:05 am

The infamous "presidential" 748 is out of paint hangar.
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-h ... cikti.html
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
aldrigsomandre
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:28 am

gokmengs wrote:
The infamous "presidential" 748 is out of paint hangar.
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-h ... cikti.html


What a waste of taxpayer money..
 
stylo777
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:58 am

Any news from the important meeting of DHMI regarding the opening of INA?
 
pzurita1
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:38 pm

TK finally lands in Mexico City.
Though it is not passanger service, Turkish Cargo started linking IST and MEX last 3rd October.
Flights are 4x.
Westbound flights are always via MAD.
Eastbound flights are sometimes via BOG-CUR-Maastricht and some others via IAH.


I wish this is the first step into very much expected passenger services.
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:16 pm

September total pax numbers are out and I find the following stat rather incredible:
-IST: 6,134,375
-SAW: 3,076, 360


SAW with only one runway, and limited wide-body service is serving 1/2 number of IST Total pax and still growing faster than IST and had 14% more domestic pax.
Maybe they should have closed/moved SAW, instead of IST? :)
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:56 pm

Will be interesting to watch SAW in the years to come especially once the 2nd runway opens.

I saw in a market study also that the opening of the Osmangazi suspension bridge greatly increased the airport's catchment area and large volume of travelers from places like Bursa and Yalova provinces now utilize the airport much easier and frequently.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
UAEflyer
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:13 pm

Can we compare DXB with IST in term of passengers & aircraft movement
 
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mercure1
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:16 pm

gokmengs wrote:
The infamous "presidential" 748 is out of paint hangar.
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-h ... cikti.html


What a gorgeous plane.
mercure f-wtcc
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:07 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Any news from the important meeting of DHMI regarding the opening of INA?

http://www.kokpit.aero/yeni-havalimani- ... tisi-bitti (Turkish Only)
This article confirms the dates. 29Oct ribbon cutting, 30-31Dec the move, now called "The Big Bang"
New details... there will be few flights from the new airport starting 29October to ESB, ADB, AYT, ECN and GYD...
Again, dates/times and how will the pax know which airport they are flying from/to???

Oooops, not so quick....

Well, just few minutes later this article: http://www.airporthaber.com/dhmi-haberl ... lanti.html (Turkish Only)
says, TK wanted to fly at least once a day to ESB, ECN and GYD but the airport management did not like the idea.

to be continued ...... :)
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:35 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Any news from the important meeting of DHMI regarding the opening of INA?


IGA Delegation firmly opposed and objected the idea of a soft operational scenario. They claim they do not have "adequate infrastructure to handle both traffics". They supposedly say: either immediately after 29th, the transition promptly takes place as already planned & announced and all airlines inc. TK settles down at the New Airport. Otherwise the New Airport remains unoperational, "until the time comes!"

But the fact is that IGA is not responsible of the air traffic control at all: that part of the business will still be handled by DHMI and ironically the air traffic control center will still remain at Ataturk Airport for the next couple of years. In that sense and in my understanding IGA is BS'ing, bullying & bluffing!

Will be fun to follow how this opposition will end up: IGA vs. DHMI & TK!!!
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
EduardoL
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:01 am

What's New in the 748 TC-TRK? Has it been repainted?
 
MeCe
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:00 am

mercure1 wrote:
gokmengs wrote:
The infamous "presidential" 748 is out of paint hangar.
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-h ... cikti.html


What a gorgeous plane.



Unnecessarily expensive to get and maintain. Think about a country just have 40% devaluation and have this plane just after an economic shakedown. Even it is a gift (which I never believe) it is a huge load on taxpayers.
 
MeCe
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:02 am

mercure1 wrote:
gokmengs wrote:
The infamous "presidential" 748 is out of paint hangar.
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-h ... cikti.html


What a gorgeous plane.



Unnecessarily expensive to get and maintain. Think about a country just have 40% devaluation and have this plane just after an economic shakedown. Even it is a gift (which I never believe) it is a huge load on taxpayers.
 
stylo777
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:29 am

seems like they finally came to an agreement.
according to Samsunlu, CEO of Istanbul New Airport:
- official opening 29Oct
- few TK domestic/international flights
- big bang transition 29-31Dec
- until then Ataturk keeps it's code IST and the new Airport will operate under code ISL
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:19 am

stylo777 wrote:
seems like they finally came to an agreement.
according to Samsunlu, CEO of Istanbul New Airport:
- official opening 29Oct
- few TK domestic/international flights
- big bang transition 29-31Dec
- until then Ataturk keeps it's code IST and the new Airport will operate under code ISL

and 3rd runway 16 months later, early 2020. Question, this 3rd runway still N/S direction right? Thank you.
 
B747forever
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:24 am

stylo777 wrote:
seems like they finally came to an agreement.
according to Samsunlu, CEO of Istanbul New Airport:
- official opening 29Oct
- few TK domestic/international flights
- big bang transition 29-31Dec
- until then Ataturk keeps it's code IST and the new Airport will operate under code ISL


In my opinion 29-31DEC is not a optimal time to make this change. Right in the middle of the busy Christmas/New Years travel period, with most flights probably full. Some 2 weeks later, in mid January would be easier to handle in case the transition doesn't go as planned.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:37 am

stylo777 wrote:
seems like they finally came to an agreement.
according to Samsunlu, CEO of Istanbul New Airport:
- official opening 29Oct
- few TK domestic/international flights
- big bang transition 29-31Dec
- until then Ataturk keeps it's code IST and the new Airport will operate under code ISL


Yes the New Airport (INA) will get the Old (Ataturk) Airport's IATA Code which is IST on 31st December midnight and will transfer its "preliminary" IATA Code (designated as ISL) to Ataturk. Probably this kind of switching back & forth will be a first in civil aviation, in the last 50 years. (???)
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:41 am

TK787 wrote:
and 3rd runway 16 months later, early 2020. Question, this 3rd runway still N/S direction right? Thank you.

Yes, best at early 2020 if not mid 2020, or so. A much bigger (costwise & timewise) ground levelling and rehab work here, so it's not really comparable to the first two runways' construction paces. Again this one will be in N/S direction. In fact there will be 5 runways, in almost parallel, in the N/S direction when the project ultimately will be completed. Plus a sixth (and shortest) runway in the E/W direction.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:15 pm

Well, the number of flights will be pretty much limited at INA during this 2 month's "testing period". Whenever, there will be flights from there, the take-offs will be to the north, to Black Sea direction. So INA's two N/S runways will be closed for southern direction take-offs but in any case this will be the standard practice for 70-80% of the take-offs whenever INA will be fully operational.

As for Ataturk Airport: Take-offs from its 17/35 runways will be halted whenever there will be activity at INA (but as said, there will not be full 24 hr. activity there; possibly only one flight departing every 60-90 min.) and will be diverted to 05/23 runway which is mostly used for landings in daily practice.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:16 pm

I kind of understand the symbolic meaning of opening it on OCT29.
But I do not understand opening it exactly "60" days later on a busy New Years Eve.
Opening it on a "historically least busy period + suitable weather conditions" would have made more sense.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:41 pm

TK787 wrote:
I kind of understand the symbolic meaning of opening it on OCT29.
But I do not understand opening it exactly "60" days later on a busy New Years Eve.
Opening it on a "historically least busy period + suitable weather conditions" would have made more sense.


Ahh, well: common sense is one thing, ego satisfaction and greedy eyes for starting the business is another...

But maybe IGA also have their reasons and excuses: what will they tell to all those people who have leased space from them, for a variety of sales activities if this opening (or rather, 100% operationality) gets more and more delayed? :? :evil:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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ankaraflyjet
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:34 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:38 am

THY international expansion from ESB to continue with 3 new direct flights from Ankara to Rome, London and Baku in the next 60 days as Ankara Chamber of Commerce and Italian Ambassador in Ankara disclosed, TK announcement is expected as to service commencement frequency/times etc.

https://www.sabah.com.tr/ekonomi/2018/0 ... ekt-ucacak
https://www.sabah.com.tr/ankara-baskent ... -tesekkuru

I wonder how TK will find available slots at LHR to reinstate ESB LHR ESB as I think TK's LHR slots are fully utilized for IST at present and very unlikely to relinquish some existing slots for ESB. Another alternative that comes to mind is for TK to launch ESB LGW of course that may be more likely. In fact THY never flew between LHR and ESB and the route was always served by BA historically as well as by BA's franchise partner BMED before it was acquired by BD ("BMI") and BD also operated the route for a short time before BD was acquired and liquidated by LH in 2008.
 
boun
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:23 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:14 pm

ankaraflyjet wrote:
THY international expansion from ESB to continue with 3 new direct flights from Ankara to Rome, London and Baku in the next 60 days as Ankara Chamber of Commerce and Italian Ambassador in Ankara disclosed, TK announcement is expected as to service commencement frequency/times etc.

https://www.sabah.com.tr/ekonomi/2018/0 ... ekt-ucacak
https://www.sabah.com.tr/ankara-baskent ... -tesekkuru

I wonder how TK will find available slots at LHR to reinstate ESB LHR ESB as I think TK's LHR slots are fully utilized for IST at present and very unlikely to relinquish some existing slots for ESB. Another alternative that comes to mind is for TK to launch ESB LGW of course that may be more likely. In fact THY never flew between LHR and ESB and the route was always served by BA historically as well as by BA's franchise partner BMED before it was acquired by BD ("BMI") and BD also operated the route for a short time before BD was acquired and liquidated by LH in 2008.


Perfect coincidence as the very same LH is announcing the end of the MUC-ESB flights... dunno if it's a seasonal halt or a permanent goodbye. With the Ukranian and Turkish/Sun Express p2p flights the competition there must be getting stiff.

Alitalia had also announced flights to Ankara in the past, not sure if they were materialized though... I am personally supporting anything from Italy as with no direct competition, ITA-TR flights are very costly in general.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4261
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:44 pm

boun wrote:
ankaraflyjet wrote:
THY international expansion from ESB to continue with 3 new direct flights from Ankara to Rome, London and Baku in the next 60 days as Ankara Chamber of Commerce and Italian Ambassador in Ankara disclosed, TK announcement is expected as to service commencement frequency/times etc.

https://www.sabah.com.tr/ekonomi/2018/0 ... ekt-ucacak
https://www.sabah.com.tr/ankara-baskent ... -tesekkuru

I wonder how TK will find available slots at LHR to reinstate ESB LHR ESB as I think TK's LHR slots are fully utilized for IST at present and very unlikely to relinquish some existing slots for ESB. Another alternative that comes to mind is for TK to launch ESB LGW of course that may be more likely. In fact THY never flew between LHR and ESB and the route was always served by BA historically as well as by BA's franchise partner BMED before it was acquired by BD ("BMI") and BD also operated the route for a short time before BD was acquired and liquidated by LH in 2008.


Perfect coincidence as the very same LH is announcing the end of the MUC-ESB flights... dunno if it's a seasonal halt or a permanent goodbye. With the Ukranian and Turkish/Sun Express p2p flights the competition there must be getting stiff.

Alitalia had also announced flights to Ankara in the past, not sure if they were materialized though... I am personally supporting anything from Italy as with no direct competition, ITA-TR flights are very costly in general.



It makes you think about the future of LH Group in Turkey, seems like they don't perform as well when faced with Turkish competition. Maybe we could see Eurowings launch ESB-VIE/MUC/FRA?
 
B747forever
Posts: 13858
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:09 pm

Blerg wrote:
boun wrote:
ankaraflyjet wrote:
THY international expansion from ESB to continue with 3 new direct flights from Ankara to Rome, London and Baku in the next 60 days as Ankara Chamber of Commerce and Italian Ambassador in Ankara disclosed, TK announcement is expected as to service commencement frequency/times etc.

https://www.sabah.com.tr/ekonomi/2018/0 ... ekt-ucacak
https://www.sabah.com.tr/ankara-baskent ... -tesekkuru

I wonder how TK will find available slots at LHR to reinstate ESB LHR ESB as I think TK's LHR slots are fully utilized for IST at present and very unlikely to relinquish some existing slots for ESB. Another alternative that comes to mind is for TK to launch ESB LGW of course that may be more likely. In fact THY never flew between LHR and ESB and the route was always served by BA historically as well as by BA's franchise partner BMED before it was acquired by BD ("BMI") and BD also operated the route for a short time before BD was acquired and liquidated by LH in 2008.


Perfect coincidence as the very same LH is announcing the end of the MUC-ESB flights... dunno if it's a seasonal halt or a permanent goodbye. With the Ukranian and Turkish/Sun Express p2p flights the competition there must be getting stiff.

Alitalia had also announced flights to Ankara in the past, not sure if they were materialized though... I am personally supporting anything from Italy as with no direct competition, ITA-TR flights are very costly in general.



It makes you think about the future of LH Group in Turkey, seems like they don't perform as well when faced with Turkish competition. Maybe we could see Eurowings launch ESB-VIE/MUC/FRA?


Who can even compete with TK to/from IST? It seems all the EU3 (BA/IAG, AFKL and LH group) struggle to serve IST.

EDIT: and why would you as a pax choose someone else over TK? Take IST-LHR for instance. BA narrow body with BOB or TK wide body with full service?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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TK105
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:40 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:45 pm

boun wrote:
LH is announcing the end of the MUC-ESB flights... dunno if it's a seasonal halt or a permanent goodbye.

Wow. End of an era for Ankara and also for Turkey. Everyday I feel more distant to Europe some how. I used this flight many times and will miss the Franziskaner Weissbier I drank at LH Senator Lounge @ MUC.
The future is in the skies.
 
aldrigsomandre
Posts: 346
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:30 am

Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:18 pm

TK105 wrote:
boun wrote:
LH is announcing the end of the MUC-ESB flights... dunno if it's a seasonal halt or a permanent goodbye.

Wow. End of an era for Ankara and also for Turkey. Everyday I feel more distant to Europe some how. I used this flight many times and will miss the Franziskaner Weissbier I drank at LH Senator Lounge @ MUC.


Just checked the loads for this flight, never below 90 percent.
I don't understand the reasoning for this.
 
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TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4564
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:04 pm

aldrigsomandre wrote:
TK105 wrote:
boun wrote:
LH is announcing the end of the MUC-ESB flights... dunno if it's a seasonal halt or a permanent goodbye.

Wow. End of an era for Ankara and also for Turkey. Everyday I feel more distant to Europe some how. I used this flight many times and will miss the Franziskaner Weissbier I drank at LH Senator Lounge @ MUC.


Just checked the loads for this flight, never below 90 percent.
I don't understand the reasoning for this.

It is never the load factor but the profit margin of both Pax and Cargo.
 
JUANTRIPPEJR
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:31 am

Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:14 pm

Does anyone know why TK is planning a triangular IST-NDJ-FIH-IST flight once a week? Flying from Ndjamena to IST via Kinshasa seems very odd.
 
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ankaraflyjet
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:34 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:03 pm

Thanks for the load factor, very interesting situation indeed. In any case that is a great opportunity for TK and others to step into the market now. Ever since LH bought other airlines they immediately scrapped ESB, this was the case for Swissair as they went bust, Austrian who served daily VIE ESB, SN operated BRU ESB and also went bust, LH bought British Midland they also axed LHR ESB, likewise with SAS that served CPH ESB seasonally, so a very harsh Germany biased consolidation took place over the years leaving ESB to TK and LH only. I do not expect OS, LX, SK etc. to reinstate ESB at the time LH is pulling out so we should look at a wider TK international expansion and/or other LCC's to step in from Europe...Let's see how this is going to play out but TK should definitely include ESB MUC among the recent attempt to add London, Rome and Baku from ESB in my opinion.


This means AC and UA codeshare services to ESB also are going to be terminated so AC and UA should make a new codeshare arrangement with TK to continue to include ESB in their network, I wonder if TK would include ESB CDG or ESB FRA for AC and UA codeshares as they codeshare IST CDG and IST FRA already to AC and UA. TK usually avoids codeshare arrangements except IST in order not to promote secondary hubs form secondary markets but they should well reconsider this policy...

aldrigsomandre wrote:
TK105 wrote:
boun wrote:
LH is announcing the end of the MUC-ESB flights... dunno if it's a seasonal halt or a permanent goodbye.

Wow. End of an era for Ankara and also for Turkey. Everyday I feel more distant to Europe some how. I used this flight many times and will miss the Franziskaner Weissbier I drank at LH Senator Lounge @ MUC.


Just checked the loads for this flight, never below 90 percent.
I don't understand the reasoning for this.
 
cmoltay
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:22 am

Re: Turkish Aviation October 2018

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:17 pm

It is in the news today that Ataturk Havalimanı (soon to be former IST) will continue to operate as a general aviation terminal, exhibition grounds for events related to aviation and an academic facility for aviation.

Don't you think this issue would deserve a discussion topic of its own? What can be done with a former hub?

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