User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 8604
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:14 pm

News coming in is that United Airlines has order an additional 9 787-9's, to be delivered from 2020

https://twitter.com/R_Wall/status/1046732474770952194

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/10 ... 0587211776

The planes will be used to replace older aircraft in the fleet

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 21566.html
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 20899
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:29 pm

This is how UA operates, incremental orders instead of huge splashy ones.

Congrats to UA and Boeing!
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1472
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:44 pm

There were rumors of a 78J top off order for 10-11 units, but that never materialized. Since that rumor, we've had 4x 789 (plus the the HA 763's to replace 7 retiring 763's) and now 9 x 789's. Any idea what "older" aircraft they will be replacing?
 
DFW17L
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:48 pm

Maybe they are replacing their 77As with the 789. Or maybe long thin routes.
 
B764er
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:19 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:30 pm

We knew this would happen, we only didn't know when.
With all those 767's they have to retire, you know the 787's are going to keep on coming, with 788's absolutely replacing the 763's. Looks like UA only loves to beat around the bush a bit.
An airline that was originally founded by Boeing:
Go figure that!
Congrats to B and UA.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2137
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:33 pm

fun2fly wrote:
There were rumors of a 78J top off order for 10-11 units, but that never materialized. Since that rumor, we've had 4x 789 (plus the the HA 763's to replace 7 retiring 763's) and now 9 x 789's. Any idea what "older" aircraft they will be replacing?


I keep saying the rumor at Willis Tower is there is still a question mark behind the A359 order. There are those who still don't believe UA needs the A359 instead the 789 and 78J can replace UA's entire 777 fleet. No final decision has been made but we have 4 on order already announced and now this morning this new announcement of an additional 9 more 789's. If these incremental orders continue to happen I may start believing the rumor mill but as it stands right now the A359 order still stands its nothing more than a rumor.

Congrats to both UA and Boeing the 789 is a great aircraft.
 
727200
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:02 pm

Revelation wrote:
This is how UA operates, incremental orders instead of huge splashy ones.

Congrats to UA and Boeing!



No, this is how co operates. UA didn't order piecemeal, instead they made large order announcements.
 
pabloeing
Posts: 579
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:10 pm

¿Some news about a 50 widebodies order that we talk about 4-5 months?.....
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:20 pm

fun2fly wrote:
There were rumors of a 78J top off order for 10-11 units, but that never materialized. Since that rumor, we've had 4x 789 (plus the the HA 763's to replace 7 retiring 763's) and now 9 x 789's. Any idea what "older" aircraft they will be replacing?


UA converted 6 78X orders to 789, because they needed these sooner. So, you would expect UA to re-order the 787-10s by now, but it looks like they have changed plans. I guess the 763 need to be replaced earlier than expected. Perhaps UA will order the 787-10 again when the final non-ER 772s and 764s are to be replaced.

Will be interesting to see how this 787-9 order will show up in Boeing's books. Perhaps as Boeing Capital lease order, just like AA's latest 787 order? As a bridge to the 797?
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
codc10
Posts: 2503
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:24 pm

727200 wrote:
No, this is how co operates. UA didn't order piecemeal, instead they made large order announcements.


UA makes orders for airplanes it can finance, to operate where it has the demand. This is in contrast to massive, costly orders which end up as albatrosses when the economy turns south and the company doesn't have enough profitable flying to deploy them and generate a ROI.

Gigantic 747/777 orders in the 90s (and the accompanying boatload of debt) were just one of a number of factors which directly led to the company's bankruptcy in 2002, wiping out tens of thousands of retirements, career prospects and billions in shareholder value. Only now is the company finally recovering.

Fortunately, this is a much more responsibly-run airline today.
 
User avatar
United787
Posts: 2838
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:37 pm

Congrats to UA. I wonder if there was a MOM available if this order would be happening. The 787 is too big for many of the 763 routes, the 763 need to be retired, 789 is so much better than the 788... they really don't have a choice...
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:37 pm

jayunited wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
There were rumors of a 78J top off order for 10-11 units, but that never materialized. Since that rumor, we've had 4x 789 (plus the the HA 763's to replace 7 retiring 763's) and now 9 x 789's. Any idea what "older" aircraft they will be replacing?


I keep saying the rumor at Willis Tower is there is still a question mark behind the A359 order. There are those who still don't believe UA needs the A359 instead the 789 and 78J can replace UA's entire 777 fleet. No final decision has been made but we have 4 on order already announced and now this morning this new announcement of an additional 9 more 789's. If these incremental orders continue to happen I may start believing the rumor mill but as it stands right now the A359 order still stands its nothing more than a rumor.

Congrats to both UA and Boeing the 789 is a great aircraft.



I'm definitely curious about the A350 orders. I don't understand why they added more to the A350 orders if they are going to order small increments of the 789 and 78J.
 
User avatar
DL757NYC
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:07 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:43 pm

Isn’t the 789 a little too much airplane for a 767 replacement.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9347
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:47 pm

DL757NYC wrote:
Isn’t the 789 a little too much airplane for a 767 replacement.

The 789s don’t have to directly replace the 763s. A 789 can be used to upgauage a 788 route and then that freed up 788 can be used to replace a 763 route for example.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 20899
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:03 pm

codc10 wrote:
727200 wrote:
No, this is how co operates. UA didn't order piecemeal, instead they made large order announcements.

UA makes orders for airplanes it can finance, to operate where it has the demand. This is in contrast to massive, costly orders which end up as albatrosses when the economy turns south and the company doesn't have enough profitable flying to deploy them and generate a ROI.

Gigantic 747/777 orders in the 90s (and the accompanying boatload of debt) were just one of a number of factors which directly led to the company's bankruptcy in 2002, wiping out tens of thousands of retirements, career prospects and billions in shareholder value. Only now is the company finally recovering.

Fortunately, this is a much more responsibly-run airline today.

I got a FB post from a cousin that's an "ex-con" FA saying the ex-CO and ex-UA FAs are now integrated.

Bit by bit UA is getting its act together.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2337
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:06 pm

Congrats to UA and Boeing. Cannot praise the 787 enough. Stunning aircraft.
 
Pendennis
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:36 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:19 pm

I keep saying the rumor at Willis Tower is there is still a question mark behind the A359 order. There are those who still don't believe UA needs the A359 instead the 789 and 78J can replace UA's entire 777 fleet. No final decision has been made but we have 4 on order already announced and now this morning this new announcement of an additional 9 more 789's. If these incremental orders continue to happen I may start believing the rumor mill but as it stands right now the A359 order still stands its nothing more than a rumor.

Congrats to both UA and Boeing the 789 is a great aircraft.[/quote]

United have now ammended their A350 order twice: the general rule is that when orders are changed, cancellation charges become more onerous.
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2494
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:32 pm

I still think the A359's will join the fleet and start replacing the 77E's as currently scheduled.
Only changes might be stretching out the deliveries a bit
 
mcdu
Posts: 1516
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:34 pm

727200 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
This is how UA operates, incremental orders instead of huge splashy ones.

Congrats to UA and Boeing!



No, this is how co operates. UA didn't order piecemeal, instead they made large order announcements.



You really need to adjust to the merger reality. At this point if you are still hung up on CO/UA legacy issues you might want to find a hobby. There is very little senior management that came from either legacy. This is their ship they are sailing. Get on board and enjoy the ride or find a new boat.

This is disciplined purchase and it makes sense. Just look at the problem with the A350 order. That’s a legacy UA decision that was too big and too far in the future to make sense.

I like the tactical purchase of the 777-300’s and the 787’s.
 
atlflyer
Posts: 670
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:13 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:55 pm

Just about a year ago... the A350s replace the 777-200s. Why all this talk of the problem with them?

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... -to-4.html
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6462
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:14 pm

Pendennis wrote:
I keep saying the rumor at Willis Tower is there is still a question mark behind the A359 order. There are those who still don't believe UA needs the A359 instead the 789 and 78J can replace UA's entire 777 fleet. No final decision has been made but we have 4 on order already announced and now this morning this new announcement of an additional 9 more 789's. If these incremental orders continue to happen I may start believing the rumor mill but as it stands right now the A359 order still stands its nothing more than a rumor.


If this rumor is true, it's a very contractionary vision of the airline. UA uses a lot of 772s (both sCO and sUA fleets) for daily TPAC services beyond the ideal range of the 787-10. Replacing all of those with 787-9s would shrink ASMs meaningfully. The 359 is bigger and would allow maintenance or very modest growth of TPAC service without additional frequencies.

I would believe that the 359 order might be a bit bigger than needed and that in an ideal world UA would turn maybe 10-15 of those 359s into 787-10s. But the two aircraft are closely matched enough that I don't image the difference would be worth eating cancellation penalties on the excess 359s. I expect to see plenty of 359s operating for UA.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1516
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:27 pm

atlflyer wrote:
Just about a year ago... the A350s replace the 777-200s. Why all this talk of the problem with them?

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... -to-4.html



If I was a betting man you won't see the A350 at UA. UAL will order the new Boeing designed plane and more 787's.
 
jfk777
Posts: 6973
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:59 pm

Will the new 787-9 have the new Polaris seats like the 787-10 ? Hoping the existing 787-9 ditch the 2-2-2 J class seats ans get Polarised. Why would United fly 787-9 nonstop to Sydney and Singapore with those awful 2-2-2 seats.
 
User avatar
adamblang
Posts: 1133
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:09 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Will the new 787-9 have the new Polaris seats like the 787-10 ? Hoping the existing 787-9 ditch the 2-2-2 J class seats ans get Polarised. Why would United fly 787-9 nonstop to Sydney and Singapore with those awful 2-2-2 seats.

The Polaris refit program should be nearly complete by the time these 789s arrive. I'd be really, really surprised if these new 789s come with anything other than Polaris and premium economy.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 2164
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:11 pm

adamblang wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Will the new 787-9 have the new Polaris seats like the 787-10 ? Hoping the existing 787-9 ditch the 2-2-2 J class seats ans get Polarised. Why would United fly 787-9 nonstop to Sydney and Singapore with those awful 2-2-2 seats.

The Polaris refit program should be nearly complete by the time these 789s arrive. I'd be really, really surprised if these new 789s come with anything other than Polaris and premium economy.


Well, given that UA has apparently already confirmed that the previous order for 4 787-9s will come with Polaris and PE, the logical assumption would be that these will, as well.

That said, I think it's a bit extreme to call the current 787 business class "awful."
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
rnav2dlrey
Posts: 321
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:10 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:14 pm

jayunited wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
There were rumors of a 78J top off order for 10-11 units, but that never materialized. Since that rumor, we've had 4x 789 (plus the the HA 763's to replace 7 retiring 763's) and now 9 x 789's. Any idea what "older" aircraft they will be replacing?


I keep saying the rumor at Willis Tower is there is still a question mark behind the A359 order. There are those who still don't believe UA needs the A359 instead the 789 and 78J can replace UA's entire 777 fleet. No final decision has been made but we have 4 on order already announced and now this morning this new announcement of an additional 9 more 789's. If these incremental orders continue to happen I may start believing the rumor mill but as it stands right now the A359 order still stands its nothing more than a rumor.

Congrats to both UA and Boeing the 789 is a great aircraft.


i’ve been saying this for well over a year, but others on here deem it heresy to speculate that the A350 won’t be taken up by UA. your post will probably be criticized, even though you’re the one in WHQ.

always appreciate your posts, btw.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 396
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:16 pm

Polot wrote:
DL757NYC wrote:
Isn’t the 789 a little too much airplane for a 767 replacement.

The 789s don’t have to directly replace the 763s. A 789 can be used to upgauage a 788 route and then that freed up 788 can be used to replace a 763 route for example.


I tend to agree. Upguage SFO-OSA, DEN-NRT, and a few of the IAD - TATL and IAD-Deep South with a 789 and free up the 788s to replace or supplement 763 flying. Also, does anyone know how much the trip cost difference is between the 788 and 789 on a mid-range TATL or Deep South America where UA deploys the 763 today? In other words, is it so minimal that it doesn’t matter whether you deploye the 788 or 789 to replace a 763?
 
jfk777
Posts: 6973
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:18 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
adamblang wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Will the new 787-9 have the new Polaris seats like the 787-10 ? Hoping the existing 787-9 ditch the 2-2-2 J class seats ans get Polarised. Why would United fly 787-9 nonstop to Sydney and Singapore with those awful 2-2-2 seats.

The Polaris refit program should be nearly complete by the time these 789s arrive. I'd be really, really surprised if these new 789s come with anything other than Polaris and premium economy.


Well, given that UA has apparently already confirmed that the previous order for 4 787-9s will come with Polaris and PE, the logical assumption would be that these will, as well.

That said, I think it's a bit extreme to call the current 787 business class "awful."


What some airlines call "First Class" is bad, flew BA Firs from LHR to Philadelphia in August and was awful. Seats were old and so was the 747-400. BA needs new First and J class like 5 years ago.
 
User avatar
adamblang
Posts: 1133
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:35 pm

jfk777 wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
adamblang wrote:
The Polaris refit program should be nearly complete by the time these 789s arrive. I'd be really, really surprised if these new 789s come with anything other than Polaris and premium economy.


Well, given that UA has apparently already confirmed that the previous order for 4 787-9s will come with Polaris and PE, the logical assumption would be that these will, as well.

That said, I think it's a bit extreme to call the current 787 business class "awful."


What some airlines call "First Class" is bad, flew BA Firs from LHR to Philadelphia in August and was awful. Seats were old and so was the 747-400. BA needs new First and J class like 5 years ago.

I don't know what first class has to do with this – United's 787s top out at business class – or what British Airways has to do with this – United isn't British Airways.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
Bald1983
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:56 pm

United is continuing the policy of Continental, namely fund the future. Since Bethune ran Continental, the Go Forward Plan was used and UAL adopted it after the merger. One prong of that plan is to fund the future. Continental seemed to have an ongoing program of fleet modernization and had the youngest of the mainline carriers. The old United made no orders, until the simultaneous orders for 787's and A-350's. I believe it is a good thing that UAL is continuing to upgrade the fleet.
 
Max Q
Posts: 7545
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:49 am

Those A350’s are needed, in fact UAL probably needs twice as many to replace their substantial 777 fleet


Besides it’s not good to have a one
manufacturer fleet
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
VC10er
Posts: 4033
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:01 am

I’ve flown 44 segments so far this year and on Wednesday to Monday I’m doing 4 more. A mix of domestic and international. I’m pretty darn sure every single flight started with the announcement “we have a completely full flight today”
So, I’m all for these 9 new 789’s, they will fill them!
And if you are trying to get a Polaris seat or domestic F within 4/5 days of the flight, the cabin is either already full or the price makes your eyes water!
So if my 763 to Geneva or Rio or Lisbon is a 788 or 789 I am going to LOVE IT (and I’m a HUGE 767 fan)
Bravo to United and “keep up the good work” and hats off to Boeing!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
UALMMFlyer
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:51 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:16 am

Can anyone tell when was the last time an Airbus plane was delivered to UA (not ordered but delivered)?

Love the 787 as well as impressed with the A350. Flew enough to love both, but those lousy SQ business class seats made my A359 experience less satisfying. On the other hand, I wish Polaris seats could be on the UA 787 to improve flying experience.

If a combination of 787 and A350 is making up the UA long haul fleet for the next decade, we should have nothing to complain about.
Treat others like you'd like to be treated!
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6757
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:21 am

Good move. I can see current 788 routes being upgauged to 789 or 77E routes downgauged to the 789. I think the 789 would do great on DEN-NRT, it's doing really well for UA.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2110
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:23 am

VC10er wrote:
I’ve flown 44 segments so far this year and on Wednesday to Monday I’m doing 4 more. A mix of domestic and international. I’m pretty darn sure every single flight started with the announcement “we have a completely full flight today”


I find that airlines say that as a preface to getting people to properly store their carry-on luggage.

Regardless, glad to see the 789 top up order.
 
iahcsr
Posts: 4777
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:31 am

UALMMFlyer wrote:
Can anyone tell when was the last time an Airbus plane was delivered to UA (not ordered but delivered)?

Two ex CZ A320s and several 319s were delivered this year. But new from Airbus.... 2002 apparently. :old:
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
Bald1983
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:42 am

Max Q wrote:
Those A350’s are needed, in fact UAL probably needs twice as many to replace their substantial 777 fleet


Besides it’s not good to have a one
manufacturer fleet


Why? Southwest has an all 737 fleet. Alaska did as well until it purchased Virgin America. Continental was successful with all Boeing. Others with all Airbus. It really comes down to which aircraft best suit your needs.
 
EChid
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:44 am

UALMMFlyer wrote:
Can anyone tell when was the last time an Airbus plane was delivered to UA (not ordered but delivered)?


Delivered? There was one in June of 2018, but it was an older leased aircraft. Most of UA's most recent A319/20 deliveries have been of older leased aircraft (but have continued all through 2016-18) so I'm not sure that really counts.

On the topic of the A359, there seems to be a subset of anetters that are completely convinced that an airline can't possibly use a 789/78J/A359 combo. I'm not sure why this is the case. Many airlines operate the 789 and 77W around the world, and this is essentially the same pairing - just the newer (and better) Airbus equivalent. The Dreamliner is the best in its class, and the A350 is arguably the best in its class as well - so UA is just taking the best. The 78J may look, seat count-wise, a little like an A359 - but when you consider its range limitations they don't fulfil the same role. Range is key for UA, since it easily holds the most dominance of the big three legacy airlines in the Pacific, where they are busy using every bit of the 789s legs.

And for those praising UA's "strategic" purchase of the 77Ws, it was only barely strategic. As far as I recall, the whole deal started with UA looking for a new smaller a/c a la Airbus A223 but Boeing, wanting to snuff out the competition, came in with an absolute bottom-of-the-barrel offer on some 738s that UA absolutely did not need but accepted for a ridiculous price. When management changed, they realized the stupidity of the deal and swapped their 738s for some end-of-the-line (well, almost) 77Ws for a good price. I call that turning a sow's ear into a silk purse, not wonderfully "strategic." The 77Ws have worked well as a flagship debut for the Polaris hard product, do there's that.

As for the seating in these new 789s, it would have to be the new seats. The only reason the previous Dreamliners (pre 78J) have the old seats is because the contract for the old interiors was already signed. New order, new seats.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
EChid
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:55 am

Bald1983 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Those A350’s are needed, in fact UAL probably needs twice as many to replace their substantial 777 fleet


Besides it’s not good to have a one
manufacturer fleet


Why? Southwest has an all 737 fleet. Alaska did as well until it purchased Virgin America. Continental was successful with all Boeing. Others with all Airbus. It really comes down to which aircraft best suit your needs.


I don't think these are comparable examples. Southwest just isn't the same type of company/fleet, they have the same damn plane across their whole fleet. Same goes for Easyjet, Ryanair, etc. But while these companies are almost guaranteed to buy a certain plane - they'll do it in such massive quantities that they have negotiation power. Plus, they make up such large numbers for the manufacturer that the desire is high to keep them happy when developing new products - or else risk losing a HUGE customer. UA is buying fewer planes of one type but more planes of various types, which means they don't have as much negotiating power because they make smaller orders (witness this one). In that scenario, it's more within their interest play the two major manufacturers off of each other when deciding on a new type - even if the order is small. This means, naturally, that either can win.

Besides all that, what happened to loving the free market? This is already essentially a global duopoly. Why the heck would UA *NOT* want to do everything in its power to encourage competition, innovation, and aggressive pricing? It's not UA's job to prop up Boeing just 'cause.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
iahcsr
Posts: 4777
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:03 am

It was 73Gs, not 738s, but you are absolutely correct these were not a really good idea and the new deal was much, much better.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
EChid
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:10 am

iahcsr wrote:
It was 73Gs, not 738s, but you are absolutely correct these were not a really good idea and the new deal was much, much better.


Ah, right! Thanks for the correction.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
WkndWanderer
Posts: 263
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:21 am

EChid wrote:
And for those praising UA's "strategic" purchase of the 77Ws, it was only barely strategic. As far as I recall, the whole deal started with UA looking for a new smaller a/c a la Airbus A223 but Boeing, wanting to snuff out the competition, came in with an absolute bottom-of-the-barrel offer on some 738s that UA absolutely did not need but accepted for a ridiculous price. When management changed, they realized the stupidity of the deal and swapped their 738s for some end-of-the-line (well, almost) 77Ws for a good price. I call that turning a sow's ear into a silk purse, not wonderfully "strategic." The 77Ws have worked well as a flagship debut for the Polaris hard product, do there's that.


United's initial 77W order was a year before the sweetheart 737 deal, which was for 73G's, the initial 10 were 787 conversions I think. The 73G order ended up converted to 61 MAX's.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1495
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:27 am

Was reading talking about initial 7810 routes being EWR-SFO/LAX, that will be great route where they can test PY. As posted above, would be great to see the789s in a new layout.
 
KICT
Posts: 815
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:31 am

Max Q wrote:
Besides it’s not good to have a one manufacturer fleet

You should apply for a fleet planning job at Southwest before it's too late!
People are saying. Believe me.
 
EChid
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:31 am

WkndWanderer wrote:
United's initial 77W order was a year before the sweetheart 737 deal, which was for 73G's, the initial 10 were 787 conversions I think. The 73G order ended up converted to 61 MAX's.


Actually, one source I've found seems to indicate they were converted to a mix of 739s and MAXs.

The 77Ws (at least some of them) got converted from the 78J order apparently, possibly because UA got tired of waiting for their Dreamliners and realized they could get a sweet deal on the 777s and get them delivered quickly OR because they just need the extra lift. Ack, this story his hard to track.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
tpaewr
Posts: 693
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:25 am

mcdu wrote:
727200 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
This is how UA operates, incremental orders instead of huge splashy ones.

Congrats to UA and Boeing!



No, this is how co operates. UA didn't order piecemeal, instead they made large order announcements.



You really need to adjust to the merger reality. At this point if you are still hung up on CO/UA legacy issues you might want to find a hobby.


That should be true, but if you think it is you’re very out of touch. The f/a group of course are at Day 1 of their merger. But the rest of the company still struggles to bridge tribal boundaries. I worked a bit with a consultant company this summer that was brought in to help with our corporate culture and the UA/CO divide is still the dominant issue they encounter.


Shifting gears. I really like the Polaris seat personally. I think it delivers 85% of the value of the 3 cabin F seat in a much smaller foot print. I am disappointed to see the catering has descended to PMUA levels but oh well I’ll take the better seat over CO style catering any day. No airplane food is really that good regardless.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2137
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:42 pm

EChid wrote:
Actually, one source I've found seems to indicate they were converted to a mix of 739s and MAXs.

The 77Ws (at least some of them) got converted from the 78J order apparently, possibly because UA got tired of waiting for their Dreamliners and realized they could get a sweet deal on the 777s and get them delivered quickly OR because they just need the extra lift. Ack, this story his hard to track.



UA never intended to replace the entire 744 fleet with Dreamliners, originally UA wanted to replace the 744 fleet with A359s which was then changed to the A35J after the merger because A359 wasn't large enough to meet UA's needs especially out of SFO. On a side note how could UA get tired of waiting for an aircraft that didn't exist in 2015? The 78J which had officially been launch wasn't expected to be in service until 2018. The reason why UA order the original 10 77W's then topped off the order later was because UA wanted to accelerate the retirement of the 744 fleet. I believe (and I could be wrong) but I think Airbus tried again to get UA to take a hard look at the A380 and Boeing originally offer up the 748-i. Once current management made it clear they were not interested in 4 engine aircraft Airbus at that point had nothing to offer except the A35J, which UA couldn't get its hands on until late Q3 2018. This left the door wide open for Boeing and the 77W. Not only did Boeing supposedly offer UA an unbelievable deal but UA would have the the 77W in the fleet by the Q4 2016. I distinctly remember people asking how Boeing was able to guarantee UA a delivery slot so quickly in Q4 2016 when UA order the 77W in Q2 2015.
Boeing saw an opportunity to get the 77W in our fleet and took it in an effort to close the deal and perhaps block Airbus's A35J which we were supposed to start taking delivery of this year late 3rd quarter. United current management team got what they wanted the accelerated retirement of the 744 fleet. Boeing got what they wanted another 77W operator which extended the production line. So far it seem as though Boeing and United won and and which these additional orders for a total of 13 more 789 frames it seem as though Boeing isn't letting up while Airbus is sitting on the sidelines waiting for 2022 to arrive.

If I'm Airbus I would be desperately looking for any opening to get my A359 into UA's fleet as early as possible and stop these incremental Dreamliner orders.
 
User avatar
AA777223
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:12 am

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:22 pm

In UA config, there is a 13 Y (1.5 rows) and 2 J (equivalent of a lav) seat delta in seat count between the 789 and similarly configured 2-class PMCO (GE powered) 772. Essentially, the 789 is the direct 772 replacement at UA with greater range and far better CASM. All this talk of significant down gauges when routes move from 772 to 789 is simply a logical fallacy. I believe these 789s will be very much replacing 772s throughout the network.
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175/190, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
Bald1983
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:46 pm

EChid wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Those A350’s are needed, in fact UAL probably needs twice as many to replace their substantial 777 fleet


Besides it’s not good to have a one
manufacturer fleet


Why? Southwest has an all 737 fleet. Alaska did as well until it purchased Virgin America. Continental was successful with all Boeing. Others with all Airbus. It really comes down to which aircraft best suit your needs.


I don't think these are comparable examples. Southwest just isn't the same type of company/fleet, they have the same damn plane across their whole fleet. Same goes for Easyjet, Ryanair, etc. But while these companies are almost guaranteed to buy a certain plane - they'll do it in such massive quantities that they have negotiation power. Plus, they make up such large numbers for the manufacturer that the desire is high to keep them happy when developing new products - or else risk losing a HUGE customer. UA is buying fewer planes of one type but more planes of various types, which means they don't have as much negotiating power because they make smaller orders (witness this one). In that scenario, it's more within their interest play the two major manufacturers off of each other when deciding on a new type - even if the order is small. This means, naturally, that either can win.

Besides all that, what happened to loving the free market? This is already essentially a global duopoly. Why the heck would UA *NOT* want to do everything in its power to encourage competition, innovation, and aggressive pricing? It's not UA's job to prop up Boeing just 'cause.


United has orders of large numbers of planes. Most are from Boeing. Your comment "the same damn plane across their whole fleet" says it all. Your issue is not economics but ascetics. You want to see different aircraft. UAL had 161 737 Max s on order with seven delivered. This was a top off order and UAL still has 14 787-10 to be delivered and 12 787-9's. They are buying those planes because they need those planes. Although not followed as much today, it does cost more to operate multiple aircraft that do the same mission as each other. Manufactures do get played but it does not mean that airlines keep a few examples of every aircraft.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 396
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Airlines orders 9 787-9's

Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:11 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
I’ve flown 44 segments so far this year and on Wednesday to Monday I’m doing 4 more. A mix of domestic and international. I’m pretty darn sure every single flight started with the announcement “we have a completely full flight today”


I find that airlines say that as a preface to getting people to properly store their carry-on luggage.

Regardless, glad to see the 789 top up order.


Ha yea. I think the completely full piece has just become part of their stock announcement, regardless of whether it will be full or not

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos