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spinkid
Posts: 1918
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:50 pm

Crew paying their own way home? I guess if you have to be back in an emergency. No other carriers would let them on as a courtesy? I would have waited at least a day to work something out before paying my own way.
 
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klm617
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:19 am

adamh8297 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:

So triple the fare, 10% of the traffic and 0% of European point of sale .... hmmm maybe they would have went bankrupt mid -June


That even makes more sense then as fares from the USA to Europe are higher than those originating in Europe. At a minimum of $250 each way out of the cities I listed loads would have been at or near 90%. The people in these markets are funding all the low fares in the big market by paying $1000+ fares while people in BOS, NYC and YYZ are paying $149 each way to get to London. Bring that low cost service into those markets at half price and watch those full planes depart one after another.


Wrong - J and F fund the low fares but the fares on BOS-AMS aren't low in the summer on DL's non-stop. $1300 was the going rate on that route. Primera's average fare was probably above 250 each way too.

European point of sale is very important for a European based-carrier. No one in Europe wants to go to the midwest except for Cook County Illinois and that small rural town Chicago that steals traffic from everywhere else. Maybe FI and WW have found their niche skimming as much US point of sale as they can but hub and spoke helps there. PF needed O+D.



And that's it right there how were they going to carve out a niche for themselves in the already over crowded market filled with established carriers when they were a basically unheard of airline. But let's say they fly CLE-LGW and they are the only game in town charging $250 each way offering nonstop they lack of recognition carries less weight but if I live in Boston and I'm going down the list a budget airlines chances are PF as a relative unknown is not going to get the customers dollars over carriers like FI and DY which are well known brands. Again say what you will but the track record shows that flying into already over crowded is not a recipe for success WOW is even struggling but at least they diversified a bit and retreated from MIA and now SFO.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
hz747300
Posts: 2420
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:27 am

Wow, so fast. I thought they were filling a decent niche on the Trans-Atlantic routes. Airliners article had a nice corporate overview of them too. The curse?

Anyways, did they show enough for someone to fill the roles afterwards?
Keep on truckin'...
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:35 am

GalebG4 wrote:
JetBlue will think twice before they start new TATL ops. Who knows what will happened in future with low cost long haul but they were crazy optimistic. There is plenty of market for thin routes on TATL market.


I don't know that this failure holds any great lessons for JetBlue. It's not a new(ish) carrier - it gets plenty of respect in the NYC and BOS markets. It will have some meaningful feed.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:43 am

jbs2886 wrote:
The guy says he wasn't authorized to send the e-mail; probably should retract his name.


What are they going to do? Fire him? :o
First to fly the 787-9
 
F9Animal
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:03 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Several things to me do not add up:
- why would the Director of Flight Ops (someone ranked quite high in such a small company) would leak such dramatic information, where he admitted to not be allowed to do so but asked to keep it secret?
- Primera Air being headquartered in Denmark, why would the Director of Flight Ops write an email in English?
- besides that letter that's been reposted by a few travel websites, there's no confirmation about a possible bankruptcy, and Primera Air website shows nothing of the sort.

Call me skeptical; but this story smells fishy.

Now, plenty of people on TripAdvisor complain about not receiving compensation as promised and as required by European laws. Maybe there's some truth to it?

So, as of now, it's nothing more than a rumor.


The worst case scenario is... He gets fired. I worked for an airline that went bust, and as soon as I heard the plug was being pulled, I let every coworker know.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
jbs2886
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:22 am

zkojq wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
The guy says he wasn't authorized to send the e-mail; probably should retract his name.


What are they going to do? Fire him? :o


More like the bankruptcy estate would sue for a potential violation/damages.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:00 am

First to fly the 787-9
 
B777LRF
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:45 am

zkojq wrote:


How is that possible? A poster up thread informed us the reason they went under was because, well, 'Airbus'.

Which is, I suppose, yet more proof positive these pages are often infested by fanboys who hold zero knowledge but loads of prejudice.
Signature. You just read one.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:51 am

Well this was predictable. Knew they were expanding too fast to be sustainable.
情報
 
AirbusOnly
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:10 am

AirbusOnly wrote:
Icelandic travel agency HeimTours transferred all of its contracts to Travelservice and will assist Primera Air passengers to ensure that everyone arrives at the destination and to Iceland. In a press release from Heimsferðir, the travel agency will start flying with Travelservice as of tomorrow, 2 October

https://www.mbl.is/frettir/innlent/2018 ... a_islandi/


OK-SWD is on her way from PRG to KEF now:

https://www.flightradar24.com/TVS453P/1e115fff
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:12 am

spinkid wrote:
Crew paying their own way home? I guess if you have to be back in an emergency. No other carriers would let them on as a courtesy? I would have waited at least a day to work something out before paying my own way.



They got kicked out of hotels because they weren’t paid for.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:29 am

RobK wrote:
But that is nothing to do with Primera and everything to do with your lack of knowledge. The B39Ms were to have aux tanks fitted, essentially giving them BBJ range which would have made TATL ops a piece of cake. This important detail was always ignored whenever discussion of them buying B39Ms was questioned.


My point is that the current U.K. routes are considered pretty borderline for a full load for the A321neo, although the LRs should do better. Forget about cargo. I suspect the premium cabin was an attempt to reduce the risk of a tech stop (in fairness we didn’t hear of many). In their defence PF have a lot of experience flying 737s on long routes from Scandinavia. But why introduce a second type, which is less capable and fly it on longer routes?
I didn’t say the 39M’s range would preclude operations, it just seems costly to have a split fleet of 6 NEOs and 10 MAX.

It’s the planning, rather than the operations that I think let this down. They had zero slack in their fleet to cover for late deliveries. I think the A321s were themselves a stop-gap as they couldn’t get MAXs as soon as they wanted. In the meantime they had expensive repairs to a 737, their leased-in aircraft was a disaster. I hindsight it may have been better to wait a season for the MAX to be delivered.

I hope EI won’t suffer similar pain next summer, if their LRs are late.
 
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hvusslax
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:48 am

jbs2886 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
The guy says he wasn't authorized to send the e-mail; probably should retract his name.


What are they going to do? Fire him? :o


More like the bankruptcy estate would sue for a potential violation/damages.


The estate is worth something around zero so there is nothing there to feed the lawyers through a pointless lawsuit like that.
 
continental004
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:48 am

AND. THIS. IS. WHY. ONE. SHOULD. ONLY. FLY. ON. REAL. AIRLINES.

Looks like those passengers who “saved their money” only ended up wasting it. So sad for the pax and employees.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:05 am

If this is "because of Airbus Delivery delays", the airliner is paying to find solution and not airbus?

How this is supposed to work?
 
garf25
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:09 am

continental004 wrote:
AND. THIS. IS. WHY. ONE. SHOULD. ONLY. FLY. ON. REAL. AIRLINES.

Looks like those passengers who “saved their money” only ended up wasting it. So sad for the pax and employees.


And don't tell me.....only fly on Boeing machines?
What a ridiculous comment. Primera have had a good run, and have got into difficulties. Could you say the same about Monarch being a 'non-decent airline'.....or TWA....or PAN AM?

Would you mind defining a 'real' airline?
Thoughts to all the workforce - I am sure the 'stranded' pax will be home within a few days.

Garf
 
TC957
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:27 am

History tells us best to wait for new aircraft deliveries, operate them for a while on regular established services, then try and expand with new routes. I remember when Laker tried for the second time late delivery of a re-furbished DC-10-30 had them leasing in other aircraft that weren't up to what was promised when people booked and the whole adventure soon folded.
Fly Globespan is another example of launching routes before they had the aircraft for them.
 
a350lover
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:30 am

TC957 wrote:
History tells us best to wait for new aircraft deliveries, operate them for a while on regular established services, then try and expand with new routes. I remember when Laker tried for the second time late delivery of a re-furbished DC-10-30 had them leasing in other aircraft that weren't up to what was promised when people booked and the whole adventure soon folded.
Fly Globespan is another example of launching routes before they had the aircraft for them.


100% agree. However, aviation relies so much on "future plans" or plans "subject to regulatory approvals", that is certainly not uncommon to see how airlines drop routes/operations all of a sudden. Primera probably put too much at once in the mouth. The long-haul transatlantic is left now alone on the hands of Norwegian, LEVEL, who else? Joon, Eurowings.... at a different level maybe...
 
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hvusslax
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:49 am

B777LRF wrote:
The reasons Primera air put up for their demise is, I venture to suggest, more than just a tad thin. An aircraft suffering badly from corrosion and a having to lease in replacements for delayed new aircraft, doesn't quite jive.

They were due in court in Denmark, as their practice of calling crew living in Sweden buy flying out of CPH 'MMA based' didn't sit well with the union, who had a date set in labour court to challenge this practice. Chances were very good the union would win, and Primera would have to sign a CLA on Danish conditions to avoid being unable to fly from CPH (they'd be subjected to sympathy actions from other unions, making ground handling impossible). That would have meant a large number of RIX based crews on self-employment would have to get more than double their current salary, plus all the benefits which comes with a direct employment contract. The prospect of that, which would also largely undermine their move to RIX; probably played a part in the decision to shut the airline down.

It's also the age-old story of an ambitious set of owners executing an aggressive businessplan, using 'growth' as the mantra to success. In this, as in many other cases, sticking to their guns - which in Primera's case was shuttling Scandinavian tourists to and from the Med - and accepting the limited growth that market comes with, would likely have saved them.

But that wasn't enough for the Icelandic owner. It used to be banks with the Icelandics, these days it seems to be airlines. And, yes, I'm also in the group who doesn't think WOW will be around for much longer.


A similar case was hanging over their heads in Iceland. The Icelandic flight attendant union had called a strike and this matter was going to end up in labour court where Primera was mostly likely going to lose which would have forced them to triple their wages or stop operating out of Iceland altogether. Very few people working in aviation in Iceland are going to mourn this predatory company.
 
metroline2006
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:00 am

Would this not be a good time for Level to step in as surely there ops would nicely come together.
 
a350lover
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:03 am

Perfect example of why this model was due to die. We often discuss about how fair are some of the practices when it comes to labour rights in aviation. Primera was probably among the worst on that, and even so, I am still sorry for the crews which for whatever reason took those jobs in such condition.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:25 am

This does seem to cast some doubt onto the whole narrowbody-longhaul-lowcost model. It worked for the US airlines with the 757s, but those aircraft were already paid off. Now we have one airline bust after chasing this model, and WOW air looking like it might be in trouble too. Experienced players like Ryanair, EasyJet and JetBlue have so far kept well away. Will it ever make economic sense to do it with brand new and expensive planes?

a350lover wrote:
I am still sorry for the crews which for whatever reason took those jobs in such condition.


And especially since many seem to have come from Monarch, and a lot probably even had to suffer through the SAS Ireland mess.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:46 am

VSMUT wrote:
This does seem to cast some doubt onto the whole narrowbody-longhaul-lowcost model.

Not "narrobody-longhaul-lowcost" but rather "longhaul-lowcost" all together. The whole business model is questionable at best. As I have said multiple times on airliners.net, the only proven long-haul-low-cost operator is Jetstar. It does my head in to see the EU3 pouring valuable cash into LHLC operations with dubious business plans. All it achieves is to trash everyone's yields.


VSMUT wrote:
And especially since many seem to have come from Monarch, and a lot probably even had to suffer through the SAS Ireland mess.

Genuine question; how is SAIL working out at the moment?
First to fly the 787-9
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5498
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:55 am

zkojq wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
This does seem to cast some doubt onto the whole narrowbody-longhaul-lowcost model.

Not "narrobody-longhaul-lowcost" but rather "longhaul-lowcost" all together. The whole business model is questionable at best. As I have said multiple times on airliners.net, the only proven long-haul-low-cost operator is Jetstar. It does my head in to see the EU3 pouring valuable cash into LHLC operations with dubious business plans. All it achieves is to trash everyone's yields.


Indeed, even Norwegian hasn't really made any money on it.


zkojq wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
And especially since many seem to have come from Monarch, and a lot probably even had to suffer through the SAS Ireland mess.

Genuine question; how is SAIL working out at the moment?


Not well at all. Pilots are running screaming away from the crooks at Parc Aviation, whom SAS allowed to run the entity. Massive cancellations this year so far, due to lack of crews. A few A320NEOs destined for SAS Ireland were delivered to proper SAS instead, and the planned base at Malaga still hasn't opened due to *drumroll* nobody willing to work for Parc Aviation. Many pilots left very shortly after joining.
I had the misfortune of ending up in a Parc Aviation contract too for a few months (for different company), they are every bit as nasty to work for as the rumours suggest.
 
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sergegva
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:59 am

According to their website, they announced their bankruptcy on September 30th at 9 PM (here).
Is it really the case? No one talked about it until the afternoon of October 1st! Is suspect a date manipulation here. Any idea why?
 
a350lover
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:43 am

VSMUT wrote:
Not well at all. Pilots are running screaming away from the crooks at Parc Aviation, whom SAS allowed to run the entity. Massive cancellations this year so far, due to lack of crews. A few A320NEOs destined for SAS Ireland were delivered to proper SAS instead, and the planned base at Malaga still hasn't opened due to *drumroll* nobody willing to work for Parc Aviation. Many pilots left very shortly after joining.
I had the misfortune of ending up in a Parc Aviation contract too for a few months (for different company), they are every bit as nasty to work for as the rumours suggest.


I don't want to be mean, but for some reason, most of this movements come from airlines in Scandinavia. Norwegian probably one of the most out-sourced airlines in Europe, then SAS, Finnair has done notable movements in the same direction... of course Primera. Probably the same happens in others... or maybe some haven't just done that because they are not big enough to need it. Ideally, the market would love to have access to low fares but in a decent labour environment. Some practices have passed the line.

SAS Malaga base... as far as I know, there are some cabin crew based there. You meant no pilots?
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:54 am

a350lover wrote:
I don't want to be mean, but for some reason, most of this movements come from airlines in Scandinavia.


As mentioned upthread, salaries and social protection costs a lot more in Scandinavia than in the Baltic states. It sounds like you could crew an entire aircraft in Lithuania for the cost of one captain in Denmark. If you can charge the same fare.....
 
VSMUT
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:09 am

a350lover wrote:
I don't want to be mean, but for some reason, most of this movements come from airlines in Scandinavia. Norwegian probably one of the most out-sourced airlines in Europe, then SAS, Finnair has done notable movements in the same direction... of course Primera. Probably the same happens in others... or maybe some haven't just done that because they are not big enough to need it. Ideally, the market would love to have access to low fares but in a decent labour environment. Some practices have passed the line.

SAS Malaga base... as far as I know, there are some cabin crew based there. You meant no pilots?


Don't know anything about cabin crew, just the pilots. Last I heard they couldn't find enough pilots to open any meaningful base in Malaga. The salary is a joke too, I make more flying ATRs. According to another forum, SAS Ireland is even having problems paying salaries now.

And yes, it is a shame what is happening... :( At least the airlines are beginning to pay for it with thousands of cancelled flights.
 
ELBOB
Posts: 374
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:10 am

hz747300 wrote:
Wow, so fast. I thought they were filling a decent niche on the Trans-Atlantic routes. Airliners article had a nice corporate overview of them too. The curse?


Any corporate article that doesn't delve into the financial aspects is just a PR piece.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:15 am

Good riddance. Mess of an airline, with no business plan, just making life more miserable for everyone flying economy TATL on any airline.
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:21 am

sergegva wrote:
According to their website, they announced their bankruptcy on September 30th at 9 PM (here).
Is it really the case? No one talked about it until the afternoon of October 1st! Is suspect a date manipulation here. Any idea why?


The actual body of the text says "Airline Primera Air and IATA codes PF and 6F have been suspended as of today, October 2nd, 2018" so I assume the date at the top is just an error. The Madrid announcement in their press releases also has a different date at the top to the body of the text.
 
hayzel777
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:41 am

B777LRF wrote:
zkojq wrote:


How is that possible? A poster up thread informed us the reason they went under was because, well, 'Airbus'.

Which is, I suppose, yet more proof positive these pages are often infested by fanboys who hold zero knowledge but loads of prejudice.

A321NEO delays and this corrosive aircraft forced them to undertake an expensive operation of wet-leasing aircraft. That is one of the reasons that the email provided for their demise. They simply could not afford the wet-leasing any longer. I would imagine that the fix for the aircraft was not cheap either!
 
londonistan
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:44 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Several things to me do not add up:
- why would the Director of Flight Ops (someone ranked quite high in such a small company) would leak such dramatic information, where he admitted to not be allowed to do so but asked to keep it secret?
- Primera Air being headquartered in Denmark, why would the Director of Flight Ops write an email in English?
- besides that letter that's been reposted by a few travel websites, there's no confirmation about a possible bankruptcy, and Primera Air website shows nothing of the sort.

Call me skeptical; but this story smells fishy.

Now, plenty of people on TripAdvisor complain about not receiving compensation as promised and as required by European laws. Maybe there's some truth to it?

So, as of now, it's nothing more than a rumor.


It's in English because a. Their staff are multi-national and b. English is the lingua franca of the World
 
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qf789
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:47 am

Norwegian is offering repatriation for affected passengers

https://twitter.com/Fly_Norwegian/statu ... 8329817089
Forum Moderator
 
f4f3a
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:07 am

Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:56 am

I think there brand was unheard of in most areas which didn’t help. Also the lack of financial backing to see trough delays etc .
I can’t see easy or Ryanair trying Atlantic on business routes. The only chance is for holiday routes down to the Caribbean or Thailand even then I doubt it
 
danipawa
Posts: 560
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:03 pm

Sad to hear, lets see who can take those A321NEO and Max orders (first one already build)

7163 737-9 Primera Air
Image7163 737-9 Primera Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr
 
eddy67
Posts: 2
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:09 pm

Has it been announced who the liquidators are, I cant seem to find anything online ?
 
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GCT64
Posts: 1915
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:38 pm

Looks like the A321N fleet are currently distributed (probably all impounded):

STN - OY-PAA, PAE & PAF
CDG - OY-PAC, PAD
XFW - OY-PAB (never delivered)
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
gunnerman
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:46 pm

It's outrageous that tickets were being sold just before bankruptcy in the knowledge that passengers would never be able to fly.

Also, think of those including crew who are stranded abroad.
 
hondah35
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:22 pm

Primera will end up being the canary in the coal mine. The great TATL low-cost experiment is unraveling and WOW and Norwegian will be the next to fold. Eventually, LEVEL will shrink back into irrelevance once IAG views the low-cost threat to be in the past, just like they did with OpenSkies once the all-biz class fad had worn away. The low-cost carriers have done their job and permanently brought forward lower-cost Basic Economy fares on many routes. The majors will take it from here....
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:55 am

continental004 wrote:
AND. THIS. IS. WHY. ONE. SHOULD. ONLY. FLY. ON. REAL. AIRLINES.

Looks like those passengers who “saved their money” only ended up wasting it. So sad for the pax and employees.


Question, what defines a "real airline"? Obviously Primera Air didn't have a fantastic organization but I really am curious on what criteria you use to determine what is a "real airline".
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
pdp
Posts: 246
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:02 am

Super80Fan wrote:
continental004 wrote:
AND. THIS. IS. WHY. ONE. SHOULD. ONLY. FLY. ON. REAL. AIRLINES.

Looks like those passengers who “saved their money” only ended up wasting it. So sad for the pax and employees.


Question, what defines a "real airline"? Obviously Primera Air didn't have a fantastic organization but I really am curious on what criteria you use to determine what is a "real airline".


I don’t understand this either, Europe’s biggest airline is the most infamous LCC of them all (Ryanair) and the fastest-expanding is one of the cheapest (Wizz).
 
airzona11
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:19 am

hondah35 wrote:
Primera will end up being the canary in the coal mine. The great TATL low-cost experiment is unraveling and WOW and Norwegian will be the next to fold. Eventually, LEVEL will shrink back into irrelevance once IAG views the low-cost threat to be in the past, just like they did with OpenSkies once the all-biz class fad had worn away. The low-cost carriers have done their job and permanently brought forward lower-cost Basic Economy fares on many routes. The majors will take it from here....


How many non-LCC airlines have ceased to exist or filed BK? The legacy carriers are feeling the impact and changing their models and products due to pressure from the ULCCs. That is a good thing for passengers. Legacy carriers cut costs where they can. Regionals and brands like Level are for the lower costs. Is this a war of attrition? Yes, and that favors the large majors that are globally consolidating and have the protection with JVs. The established carriers enjoy protection from massive barriers to entry, financially and government protection (slots, JVs, local market protection, etc). You mention lower cost basic economy fares, those aren't lower costs for us travelers, they are lower cost for airlines and more room for aux fees. The majors take it from here scenario is exactly the reason why we are going to keep seeing these startups.
 
a350lover
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:51 am

hondah35 wrote:
Primera will end up being the canary in the coal mine. The great TATL low-cost experiment is unraveling and WOW and Norwegian will be the next to fold. Eventually, LEVEL will shrink back into irrelevance once IAG views the low-cost threat to be in the past, just like they did with OpenSkies once the all-biz class fad had worn away. The low-cost carriers have done their job and permanently brought forward lower-cost Basic Economy fares on many routes. The majors will take it from here....


I disagree here. The market might not be mature enough yet. For sure, with the current oil prices, those carriers willing to play a role here need cost structures very well integrated within big groups. The cost impact in IAG for operating LEVEL (which for sure must be painful!) is assumable, whereas for an airline with a scale of just 10 planes, namely Primera, the options to negotiate and to control the generated expenses are very limited. I don't think any airline these days could rely just on a low cost TATL operation, cause that'll only incur in burning money. Integrated in a bigger group (i.e Eurowings, Joon, LEVEL, etc.) I believe all these projects deserve a go and all these groups are doing well by testing them out. Even if the most pure model (maybe Norwegian) failed, someone new in a matter of some time we'd be back to try it again.
 
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ACCS300
Posts: 579
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:55 am

enilria wrote:
Media Coverage

On 1 October, at least one Primera Air Scandinavia Airbus A321 (OY-PAF) was impounded at Stansted Airport for unpaid airport charges. The aircraft was to operate flight PF41 to Newark.
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/prim ... -tomorrow/


Was at Stansted awaiting my WOW flight to KEF WW827 on Oct 1st, there were a series of announcement regarding flight delays for this Primera Flight PF41 to Newark which read something like, '...this flight is delayed, further information within the next 60 minutes...' , seemed odd but now I know the reason.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:56 am

VSMUT wrote:
This does seem to cast some doubt onto the whole narrowbody-longhaul-lowcost model. It worked for the US airlines with the 757s, but those aircraft were already paid off. Now we have one airline bust after chasing this model, and WOW air looking like it might be in trouble too. Experienced players like Ryanair, EasyJet and JetBlue have so far kept well away. Will it ever make economic sense to do it with brand new and expensive planes?


IMO the problem with the narrowbody-longhaul-lowcost model in European or American carriers is that there are few markets that are unexplored.

In TATL flights, it is basically US/Canada East Coast to the Westernmost part of Europe. And that it is. And when developing secondary routes (like Edinburg-Providence or whatever) they failed. From Europe elsewhere there is not much to fly to. Middle East? Maybe Dubai is the only place worth considering, but with so much competition from the ME3... forget about it. Europe-Africa might be interesting in the future but at the moment those are small markets in terms of PAX.
 
716131
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:07 am

Any idea where will their plane be stored at?
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:22 am

SQ789 wrote:
Any idea where will their plane be stored at?


If the closure of Air Berlin is any indication, they will find new homes so quickly that it is irrelevant to talk about storage.
 
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Polot
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Re: Primera Air bankruptcy

Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:11 pm

VSMUT wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
Any idea where will their plane be stored at?


If the closure of Air Berlin is any indication, they will find new homes so quickly that it is irrelevant to talk about storage.

Air Berlin was essentially picked apart before they ceased ops, since it was given money by the German government to ensure they continued operating until a time where it was more politically acceptable to cease ops. Everyone knew they weren’t going to last so that gave everyone time to figure out who gets what the last couple of months of Air Berlin’s life.

That said Primera’s fleet is rather small and mostly new, so the frames will be snapped up quickly.

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