boeing737max
Topic Author
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:07 pm

WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:34 pm

Hello, was wondering if WN might eventually add these routes. The MAX 7 could do both routes no problem nonstop. Just a thought and wondered what Anet thinks.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4375
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:48 pm

Not sure it will be in range westbound with those winds. Additionally, you realize there is no diversion airports between Cali and Hawaii? You really want to be on a plane running low on fuel cruising into hawaii? I really doubt it has range for either of these thats seems unrealistic missions for a 737 westbound.
 
kiowa
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:49 pm

That would be a painful flight in any 737. Yuk!
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1675
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:51 pm

I think DEN,LAS and PHX will be the only markets beyond California for the MAX7.
While it's in the Estimated Range of the MAX7. I Don't think once you factor in full payload and western headwinds will you see that long of ETOPS flight.

The MAX7 will definitely be used on South America long range flights from FLL and HOU.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
77H
Posts: 1458
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:55 pm

Not unless WN's plans radically change. My understanding is that their 7M7s will not be ETOPS certified which makes the idea a nonstarter. The 7M8 doesn't have nearly enough range, especially with WN's configurations. DAL and HOU are both further East than DEN which needs a 752 at minimum. Beyond that, I would expect WN to add stations like LAS and PHX long before DAL or HOU even enter their minds.

77H
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2774
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:57 pm

"Within Theoretical Range" is one thing, real operation is another. Headwinds is also definitely an issue westbound (HNL-IAH or DFW takes 1 hr longer to HNL right now).

Plus, do you really want to seat in a 737 for 7.5 hrs?

EDIT:
77H wrote:
Not unless WN's plans radically change. My understanding is that their 7M7s will not be ETOPS certified which makes the idea a nonstarter. The 7M8 doesn't have nearly enough range, especially with WN's configurations. DAL and HOU are both further East than DEN which needs a 752 at minimum. Beyond that, I would expect WN to add stations like LAS and PHX long before DAL or HOU even enter their minds.

77H


I thought MAX7 come ETOPS-certified as built? i.e. WN doesn't really get to pick whether to have them "ETOPS certified" or not.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
User avatar
adamblang
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:13 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
I thought MAX7 come ETOPS-certified as built? i.e. WN doesn't really get to pick whether to have them "ETOPS certified" or not.

Both the plane and the airline's maintenance and operations have to be certified. Buying an ETOPS plane doesn't mean you get to fly it on ETOPS missions.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
alggag
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:34 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:23 pm

Highly doubt it. WN still isn't even that big on trans cons so I can't really see a route like that coming along any time soon.

Also, as long as WN refuses to do red eye flying then Hawaii to DAL/HOU would not have many connections to work with.
Last edited by alggag on Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1518
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:36 pm

boeing737max wrote:
Hello, was wondering if WN might eventually add these routes. The MAX 7 could do both routes no problem nonstop. Just a thought and wondered what Anet thinks.


Long and thin routes are generally not money makers. They would have to charge a very heavy premium for this to make sense. Not to mention adding flights that long are so far out of the ordinary for the WN model.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2715
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:00 pm

While I do not expect WN to serve DAL nonstop from HNL anytime soon, WN might likely add one-stop, same-plane direct flights to DAL from HNL with a stop in California in between HNL and DAL. WN has a maintenance base at DAL, and adding one-stop, same-plane direct flights to DAL would allow WN to more easily get planes back to DAL for any necessary maintenance work that can't be performed at a WN station in Hawaii or California.

WN will likely have one-stop, same-plane direct flights from Hawaii to a few destinations other than OAK, SJC, SAN, and SMF.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:11 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Not sure it will be in range westbound with those winds. Additionally, you realize there is no diversion airports between Cali and Hawaii? You really want to be on a plane running low on fuel cruising into hawaii? I really doubt it has range for either of these thats seems unrealistic missions for a 737 westbound.


The fuel issue will be depressurization diverts from the ETP, it won’t be running low into HNL, if the ETP fuel is covered.


GF
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1593
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:19 pm

kiowa wrote:
That would be a painful flight in any 737. Yuk!



....or A320/321.

Both would be equally terrible. On the other hand, I love flying, so I'd be happy to take either.
Last edited by FriscoHeavy on Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whatever
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1593
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:21 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Not sure it will be in range westbound with those winds. Additionally, you realize there is no diversion airports between Cali and Hawaii? You really want to be on a plane running low on fuel cruising into hawaii? I really doubt it has range for either of these thats seems unrealistic missions for a 737 westbound.


That's a flawed way of thinking about it. If it has the range to get there, it will arrive with the same fuel load as a plane leaving the west coast.

The planned trip fuel, no matter where it's from on the mainland, will have the same contingency reserves in place.
Whatever
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1593
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:23 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
"Within Theoretical Range" is one thing, real operation is another. Headwinds is also definitely an issue westbound (HNL-IAH or DFW takes 1 hr longer to HNL right now).

Plus, do you really want to seat in a 737 for 7.5 hrs?

EDIT:
77H wrote:
Not unless WN's plans radically change. My understanding is that their 7M7s will not be ETOPS certified which makes the idea a nonstarter. The 7M8 doesn't have nearly enough range, especially with WN's configurations. DAL and HOU are both further East than DEN which needs a 752 at minimum. Beyond that, I would expect WN to add stations like LAS and PHX long before DAL or HOU even enter their minds.

77H


I thought MAX7 come ETOPS-certified as built? i.e. WN doesn't really get to pick whether to have them "ETOPS certified" or not.



You've got it backwards. HNL-IAH/DFW is about an hour shorter than westbound (IAH/DFW-Hawaii).
Whatever
 
WNCrew
Posts: 977
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:22 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:37 pm

If memory serves... originally it was reported the MAX8 wouldn't be ETOPS either... so things can change with the MAX7 I'd assume.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
bob75013
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:53 pm

Only after WN starts flying 797s with folding wingtips and 220 seats out of DAL
 
joeblow10
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:35 pm

And lets not forget the very obvious problem of runway length - 7600 at HOU, 8000 at DAL. Even if WN thought to run it, I'd imagine a fully-laden 737 bound for an 8 hour flight to Hawaii would come awfully close to using that entire thing up, especially during Summer months
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20474
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:40 pm

Just because something COULD be done does not mean it SHOULD. It is bad enough there is bare bones 321NEO service from SFO and LAX to HNL. I did not even think of the logistics of getting that payload off the ground. From a passenger comfort stand, it would be awful. We can eat only so many packs of peanuts.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3193
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:50 pm

kiowa wrote:
That would be a painful flight in any 737. Yuk!


Not as much on WN as it would be on Delta's & AA's 30" seats on the 737/A319's.
 
77H
Posts: 1458
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:57 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
"Within Theoretical Range" is one thing, real operation is another. Headwinds is also definitely an issue westbound (HNL-IAH or DFW takes 1 hr longer to HNL right now).

Plus, do you really want to seat in a 737 for 7.5 hrs?

EDIT:
77H wrote:
Not unless WN's plans radically change. My understanding is that their 7M7s will not be ETOPS certified which makes the idea a nonstarter. The 7M8 doesn't have nearly enough range, especially with WN's configurations. DAL and HOU are both further East than DEN which needs a 752 at minimum. Beyond that, I would expect WN to add stations like LAS and PHX long before DAL or HOU even enter their minds.

77H


I thought MAX7 come ETOPS-certified as built? i.e. WN doesn't really get to pick whether to have them "ETOPS certified" or not.


Most modern aircraft come ETOPS-certified out of the box. That doesn't mean the airline that buys that aircraft can use it on an ETOPS flights. The airline has to certify every type individually.

77H
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3193
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:58 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
"Within Theoretical Range" is one thing, real operation is another. Headwinds is also definitely an issue westbound (HNL-IAH or DFW takes 1 hr longer to HNL right now).

Plus, do you really want to seat in a 737 for 7.5 hrs?

EDIT:
77H wrote:
Not unless WN's plans radically change. My understanding is that their 7M7s will not be ETOPS certified which makes the idea a nonstarter. The 7M8 doesn't have nearly enough range, especially with WN's configurations. DAL and HOU are both further East than DEN which needs a 752 at minimum. Beyond that, I would expect WN to add stations like LAS and PHX long before DAL or HOU even enter their minds.

77H


I thought MAX7 come ETOPS-certified as built? i.e. WN doesn't really get to pick whether to have them "ETOPS certified" or not.


Yes they do. A plane gets ETOPS for the plane itself from Boeing. Airlines have their own certification for each model from the FAA. Just because the 7M7 is ETOPS does not mean any old airline can buy one and fly ETOPS routes.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2774
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:21 am

rbavfan wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
"Within Theoretical Range" is one thing, real operation is another. Headwinds is also definitely an issue westbound (HNL-IAH or DFW takes 1 hr longer to HNL right now).

Plus, do you really want to seat in a 737 for 7.5 hrs?

EDIT:
77H wrote:
Not unless WN's plans radically change. My understanding is that their 7M7s will not be ETOPS certified which makes the idea a nonstarter. The 7M8 doesn't have nearly enough range, especially with WN's configurations. DAL and HOU are both further East than DEN which needs a 752 at minimum. Beyond that, I would expect WN to add stations like LAS and PHX long before DAL or HOU even enter their minds.

77H


I thought MAX7 come ETOPS-certified as built? i.e. WN doesn't really get to pick whether to have them "ETOPS certified" or not.


Yes they do. A plane gets ETOPS for the plane itself from Boeing. Airlines have their own certification for each model from the FAA. Just because the 7M7 is ETOPS does not mean any old airline can buy one and fly ETOPS routes.


Thanks all for the clarification. Guess you do learn something new everyday.

FriscoHeavy wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
"Within Theoretical Range" is one thing, real operation is another. Headwinds is also definitely an issue westbound (HNL-IAH or DFW takes 1 hr longer to HNL right now).

Plus, do you really want to seat in a 737 for 7.5 hrs?

EDIT:
77H wrote:
Not unless WN's plans radically change. My understanding is that their 7M7s will not be ETOPS certified which makes the idea a nonstarter. The 7M8 doesn't have nearly enough range, especially with WN's configurations. DAL and HOU are both further East than DEN which needs a 752 at minimum. Beyond that, I would expect WN to add stations like LAS and PHX long before DAL or HOU even enter their minds.

77H


I thought MAX7 come ETOPS-certified as built? i.e. WN doesn't really get to pick whether to have them "ETOPS certified" or not.



You've got it backwards. HNL-IAH/DFW is about an hour shorter than westbound (IAH/DFW-Hawaii).


I just phrased it weirdly. I try to say "HNL-IAH and HNL-DFW takes one hour longer to HNL (vs. from HNL)", should have been more clear :white:
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
kiowa
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:26 am

rbavfan wrote:
kiowa wrote:
That would be a painful flight in any 737. Yuk!


Not as much on WN as it would be on Delta's & AA's 30" seats on the 737/A319's.


I have the option of buying a better seat on both AA and Delta. It is still way too far in a 737 for me.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2031
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:42 am

kiowa wrote:
I have the option of buying a better seat on both AA and Delta. It is still way too far in a 737 for me.



I frequently fly AS to Hawaii...it doesn't feel any different than any other flight or aircraft. Free streamed movies pass the time. You just have to plan your visits to the bathroom in case the crew are in the aisle.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4375
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:53 am

rbavfan wrote:
kiowa wrote:
That would be a painful flight in any 737. Yuk!


Not as much on WN as it would be on Delta's & AA's 30" seats on the 737/A319's.


WN seats are super comfortable compared to DL and AA more room, it's more that the 737 wouldnt make it westbound. The winds are too strong.
 
DDR
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:05 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
kiowa wrote:
That would be a painful flight in any 737. Yuk!



....or A320/321.

Both would be equally terrible. On the other hand, I love flying, so I'd be happy to take either.


Exactly. This is supposed to be a site for people who love flying and airliners. I laugh at the people who think they are to good for this plane, or this airline. They lose credibility with me.
 
737max8
Posts: 522
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:35 am

You guys realize that you can choose to buy the plane with or without equipment needed for ETOPS?

It would not be very difficult for WN to have ETOPS MAX 7's. In fact I'll be very shocked if they aren't quickly after the -800s and MAX 8's are ready to go.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A343 A359 A388
 
Busyboy2
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:57 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:18 am

joeblow10 wrote:
And lets not forget the very obvious problem of runway length - 7600 at HOU, 8000 at DAL. Even if WN thought to run it, I'd imagine a fully-laden 737 bound for an 8 hour flight to Hawaii would come awfully close to using that entire thing up, especially during Summer months


Southwest has a Take-off flaps setting modification on the -800's to increase the wing camber for all the short runways. AFAIK, its a Boeing Mod specific to SWA. Take off at Flaps 25 pretty often in the -800's
 
739er
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:53 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:32 am

Or,...you could just ride on a 777 nonstop from IAH or DFW to HNL, on airlines that have operated to the Hawaiian islands since the days when propliners flew the pineapple tracks. Maybe even upgrade to 1st class. Of course, peanuts may not be available.
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 679
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:43 am

I don’t see WN adding flights to Hawaii outside of the west coast for a while. I think they already have a (presumably) robust Hawaii route network to begin with, and I think they’ll need time to get acqautinted with the market after commencing ops there. It will be interesting to see if they time flights to offer connections for those outside of CA. If they were to fly between all 4 cities in CA and HI that are slated to receive flights, that’s a potential 16 routes right off the bat. Let’s wait and see how those routes perform initially.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:43 pm

Take five years to build up Hawaii from the west coast. Add potential 797 for heavy traffic routes, Transcon and mid America to Hawaii.

Would DAL handle a 797? That is one way to consolidate some frequencies add add new cities like HNL.
 
bob75013
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:57 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Take five years to build up Hawaii from the west coast. Add potential 797 for heavy traffic routes, Transcon and mid America to Hawaii.

Would DAL handle a 797? That is one way to consolidate some frequencies add add new cities like HNL.


DAL has handled 747s and 777s. I suspect it can handle 797s.

I've long said WN is about out of places to expand.If it wants to grow long term, It has two options (1) an aircraft smaller than a 737 for smaller US cities or (2) something 797 sized with more range for international destinations, and use at gate constrained fields that have runways capable handling the bigger aircraft.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2715
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:08 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Take five years to build up Hawaii from the west coast. Add potential 797 for heavy traffic routes, Transcon and mid America to Hawaii.

Would DAL handle a 797? That is one way to consolidate some frequencies add add new cities like HNL.


All 20 gates at DAL can handle the 737 MAX 9, 737 MAX 10, A321, and MD-80. There might be a few gates at DAL that can't handle the 757 and MD-90, but at least some of the 20 gates at DAL can handle the 757 and MD-90.

I am unsure if DAL would actually be able to handle the 797 since Boeing is considering a 2-aisle design for the 797.
 
bob75013
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:12 pm

jplatts wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
Take five years to build up Hawaii from the west coast. Add potential 797 for heavy traffic routes, Transcon and mid America to Hawaii.

Would DAL handle a 797? That is one way to consolidate some frequencies add add new cities like HNL.


All 20 gates at DAL can handle the 737 MAX 9, 737 MAX 10, A321, and MD-80. There might be a few gates at DAL that can't handle the 757 and MD-90, but at least some of the 20 gates at DAL can handle the 757 and MD-90.

I am unsure if DAL would actually be able to handle the 797 since Boeing is considering a 2-aisle design for the 797.


The only way a 797 fits at DAL is if it comes with folding wingtips. The airport was specifically designed to only allow narrow body aircraft.
 
evank516
Posts: 1954
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:29 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
And lets not forget the very obvious problem of runway length - 7600 at HOU, 8000 at DAL. Even if WN thought to run it, I'd imagine a fully-laden 737 bound for an 8 hour flight to Hawaii would come awfully close to using that entire thing up, especially during Summer months


I knew HOU had relatively short runways, but I thought DAL had one runway that was about 10,000 feet, didn't realize their longest was 8,800.
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1593
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:40 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
And lets not forget the very obvious problem of runway length - 7600 at HOU, 8000 at DAL. Even if WN thought to run it, I'd imagine a fully-laden 737 bound for an 8 hour flight to Hawaii would come awfully close to using that entire thing up, especially during Summer months


DAL runway (one of them) is 8,800 ft. That is plenty for a 737, even on a warm day.

Plus, if they flew to Hawaii, it would leave in the AM (prior to noon), which would be the coolest part of the day in the summer.
Whatever
 
User avatar
fraspotter
Posts: 2229
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:20 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
And lets not forget the very obvious problem of runway length - 7600 at HOU, 8000 at DAL. Even if WN thought to run it, I'd imagine a fully-laden 737 bound for an 8 hour flight to Hawaii would come awfully close to using that entire thing up, especially during Summer months


DAL runway (one of them) is 8,800 ft. That is plenty for a 737, even on a warm day.

Plus, if they flew to Hawaii, it would leave in the AM (prior to noon), which would be the coolest part of the day in the summer.


I'm not too familiar with the runway construction history of DAL but how did those Braniff 747s ever take off from DAL to HNL back in the early 70s? Those surely took a bit of runway length no?
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
monster74
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:29 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:26 pm

This is a moot point. There still is a restriction in place that commercial flights can only fly within the continental US. So, it's not legal for WN to fly to Hawaii from DAL.
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1593
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:52 pm

monster74 wrote:
This is a moot point. There still is a restriction in place that commercial flights can only fly within the continental US. So, it's not legal for WN to fly to Hawaii from DAL.


Nowhere have I been able to find that it states flights have to be within the 'Continental US'. Everything I've found indicates 'Domestic', which would include Hawaii and Alaska.

If I'm not accurate, please provide the official statute stating otherwise.

Thanks
Whatever
 
jplatts
Posts: 2715
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:02 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
monster74 wrote:
This is a moot point. There still is a restriction in place that commercial flights can only fly within the continental US. So, it's not legal for WN to fly to Hawaii from DAL.


Nowhere have I been able to find that it states flights have to be within the 'Continental US'. Everything I've found indicates 'Domestic', which would include Hawaii and Alaska.

If I'm not accurate, please provide the official statute stating otherwise.

Thanks


Here is the text Section 3 of the Wright Amendment Reform Act of 2006:
"No person shall provide, or offer to provide, air transportation of passengers for compensation or hire between Love Field, Texas, and any point or points outside the 50 States or the District of Columbia on a nonstop basis, and no official or employee of the Federal Government may take any action to make or designate Love Field as an initial point of entry into the United States or a last point of departure from the United States."

The Wright Amendment Reform Act of 2006 prohibits nonstop service to destinations other than the 50 states or the District of Columbia out of DAL, but does not prohibit nonstop service to Hawaii from DAL.
 
bob75013
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:21 pm

fraspotter wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
And lets not forget the very obvious problem of runway length - 7600 at HOU, 8000 at DAL. Even if WN thought to run it, I'd imagine a fully-laden 737 bound for an 8 hour flight to Hawaii would come awfully close to using that entire thing up, especially during Summer months


DAL runway (one of them) is 8,800 ft. That is plenty for a 737, even on a warm day.

Plus, if they flew to Hawaii, it would leave in the AM (prior to noon), which would be the coolest part of the day in the summer.


I'm not too familiar with the runway construction history of DAL but how did those Braniff 747s ever take off from DAL to HNL back in the early 70s? Those surely took a bit of runway length no?


Braniff 747s? You do know that Trump took Air Force One into DAL earlier this year? So did Obama during his time in office.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:27 pm

bob75013 wrote:
fraspotter wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:

DAL runway (one of them) is 8,800 ft. That is plenty for a 737, even on a warm day.

Plus, if they flew to Hawaii, it would leave in the AM (prior to noon), which would be the coolest part of the day in the summer.


I'm not too familiar with the runway construction history of DAL but how did those Braniff 747s ever take off from DAL to HNL back in the early 70s? Those surely took a bit of runway length no?


Braniff 747s? You do know that Trump took Air Force One into DAL earlier this year? So did Obama during his time in office.


Trump was on a 757...
 
Victorville
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:56 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:40 pm

WN is reluctant to operate flights with long stage lengths (e.g. transcons) and overnight flights, both of which would be required to make this work.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:41 pm

BN’s 747 service was run out of DFW and LAX.

GF
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:59 pm

Lest we not forget that some Texans have been flying WN for decades now. WN FFers in Dallas may remember the days when flying from DAL meant not just a stop at someplace like ABQ, AUS, BHM, ELP, MSY or OKC but the need to have two tickets - one within the Wright Amendment region (comprising Texas and a few adjacent states), and then another from that waypoint to the destination beyond. Folks in Houston weren't legally prohibited from flying nonstop to either coast, though in reality most WN fliers grew accustomed to making one or two stops to get to such places anyways. A HOU-LAX traveler, for instance, may well have stopped in ELP and then connected at PHX...

Although DAL and HOU have both seen a dramatic increase in nonstop destinations in recent years, many WN fliers still do not mind making stops or connections en route. There is absolutely no need for nonstop service between Texas and Hawaii. I'll never forget my parents' friends coming to visit in Fort Myers, Florida from the Chicago suburbs. Although MKE has quite a bit of nonstop service to RSW, they opted for a quirky routing that only WN would think to offer: MKE-LGA-CAK-RSW. "Oh, what a wonderful day. We got to fly over New York City and see the Statue of Liberty, then when the crew found out we would be with them all the way to Florida, we started getting free drinks!" Believe me, WN won't have any trouble getting folks from Texas to stop in one or even two Western cities en route to/from Hawaii. I can absolutely see WN selling something like DAL-BUR-OAK-HNL and the young honeymooners raving the whole way - "How cool! We got to step off the plane by stairs in Burbank to stretch our legs, then we flew over the Golden Gate Bridge leaving Oakland!" "Can you see the Hollywood sign?" etc. WN fans are an interesting breed of traveler that tend to prioritize adventure and simply enjoying the travel experience over "Are we there yet?!? My time is money". It's a refreshing change from other airlines, that's for sure!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
jplatts
Posts: 2715
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:04 pm

WN is likely to increase HOU-SAN nonstop service to at least 3 daily nonstops from 2 daily nonstops in order to more easily connect passengers from HOU to Hawaii and in order to more easily connect passengers to Florida and international destinations from SAN.
 
DarthLobster
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:40 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:18 pm

Capability not withstanding, no one else operates 737s from the mainland to Hawaii from anywhere but on or close to the west coast. WN isn’t about to make a risky/pioneering leap like that when they’re already skittish about starting HI in the first place, especially when larger carriers are already offering service to HI from Dallas and Houston with superior products.
 
User avatar
deltacto
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:49 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:10 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN’s 747 service was run out of DFW and LAX.

GF


True ... but Braniff flew the 747 from Love Field to Honolulu starting January 15, 1971

Here's N601BN at Love in 1973

 
jagraham
Posts: 880
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:17 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Not sure it will be in range westbound with those winds. Additionally, you realize there is no diversion airports between Cali and Hawaii? You really want to be on a plane running low on fuel cruising into hawaii? I really doubt it has range for either of these thats seems unrealistic missions for a 737 westbound.


The fuel issue will be depressurization diverts from the ETP, it won’t be running low into HNL, if the ETP fuel is covered.


GF



737s have been coming out here for quite some time (Aloha, Alaska, and now the US3), so it is quite possible.

But as others have said, the configuration may take a hit. Certainly with an ACT, a MAX7 can do anything west of the Mississippi . . but that's 140 or so pax and no cargo. Southwest doesn't keep many transcons despite the demonstrated demand and price premiums seen on other airlines, so to add 2 or 3 hours beyond the west coast seems quite unlikely. "Let them transfer" seems to be the Southwest motto.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3883
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: WN Hawaii from DAL & HOU?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:44 pm

kiowa wrote:
That would be a painful flight in any 737. Yuk!


I don't see why it would be different from any other plane. To me it doesn't matter how big the plane is, what matters is how big my seat is. And on Southwest they're rather big. It's a myth that you need wide bodies for such distances, you really don't. What does it matter how much space you got ahead, behind and next to you? You don't sit there anyway, so why bother?

This reminds me of that guy who went to buy a car. He only used the car to get to work every day, nothing else. Nevertheless he thought that, since he was rather tall, he needed a big car. The dealer had two cars of the same type, one hatchback and one station. He bought the station because it was bigger. What he failed to see was that the only part that was bigger was the trunk, the rest of the car was identical. It was fitted with the same seat, same distance from the dashboard, same steering wheel, etc.

Now let's get back to airplanes. If you have the same seat at the same seat pitch mounted in a different aircraft, does it make any difference? You sit in it just the same.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos