Luisvalero
Topic Author
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:14 pm

TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:05 am

TAP Portugal is going to launch a huge number of new destinations from it’s hub in Lisbon in 2019:
Dublin, Basel, Tel Aviv (already anounced) + Montreal, Washington, Chicago, San Francisco, Tenerife, Naples, Banjul, Conakry and Lyon & Munich from Porto

Source: https://www.dinheirovivo.pt/empresas
 
Chelsearose
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:57 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:37 am

I wonder whether they'll be able to make SFO, TFS & NAP work.
Also, I find it odd as well that no attempts are made to reopen LED, CDG (even though they serve ORY), MAO, JNB & ATH
 
santos
Posts: 531
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:46 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:49 am

There’s been a thread about it already, plus the link doesn’t work properly
 
xtra1
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:47 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:51 am

I also wonder why they could not make LIS- MFM (Macau) work. A former Portuguese colony with a large Portuguese/Chinese population. It is also a large gambling destination. The new Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau road bridge would surely be an added incentive for TP to re-introduce a service to Macau.
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:43 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:25 am

Chelsearose wrote:
ATH


I'm sure they'd like to give ATH another shot but I think that ship has sailed, at least for now until the market grows.
Aegean started service a couple of years ago and the route has been very successful for them. There will be 8 weekly flights next summer.
A3 also launched a seasonal ATH-OPO route this year which is being increased to 3 weekly next summer.

They do codeshare with TP on these routes but schedules don't really work for long-haul connections on the TP side.
 
Luisvalero
Topic Author
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:14 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:45 am

santos wrote:
There’s been a thread about it already, plus the link doesn’t work properly


Sorry, the correct link is this one:

https://jornaleconomico.sapo.pt/noticia ... ano-352378
 
Blerg
Posts: 3066
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:55 am

I thought LIS had space issues? I remember their last expansion spree ended in a disaster when they realized they didn't have enough planes to efficiently operate all flights. Let's hope they do better this time around.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4328
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:15 am

xtra1 wrote:
Macau ... a large Portuguese/Chinese population.

Eh, Macau's population is 650,000, of which just 8,000 are Macanese (mixed Portuguese / Chinese).

Macau is tiny - it's been unable to sustain intercontinental services at multiple points over the years.

Cheers,

C.
 
johnclipper
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:44 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:24 am

TP used to have a ticket/sales office in Macao. I saw it no less than 6-7 years ago...interesting to see as it had just closed.
"Flown every aircraft since the Wright Flyer" (guys, if you take this literally, then you need to get a life...)
 
a350lover
Posts: 750
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:30 am

Way too much for just a year with the current situation which has the airline affecting its on time performance due to the LIS limitations.

With oil rising, Ryanair sending a profit warning, Primera burst ... if I had an airline, I'd be quite conservative.
 
Galwayman
Posts: 800
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:45 am

This is a brilliant example of strategic thinking and network planning . Twice daily to some destinations giving excellent connections eg TLV to SFO , DUB to GRU....

Go hard or go home has always been the lesson , well done TAP
 
hz747300
Posts: 2406
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:38 am

Cool--one could argue that they could add HKG and then provide a code share bus service to Macau. However, I think this will be a bad use of resources.
Keep on truckin'...
 
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TOGA10
Posts: 261
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:54 am

Love flying, hate the alarm at 3 in the morning, love watching the sun rise at 5:30. It's all about compromises.
 
babastud
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:38 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:28 pm

Galwayman wrote:
This is a brilliant example of strategic thinking and network planning . Twice daily to some destinations giving excellent connections eg TLV to SFO , DUB to GRU....

Go hard or go home has always been the lesson , well done TAP



Are they planning twice daily to SFO? Is that what TAP is planning?
 
airbazar
Posts: 9953
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:24 pm

With the exception of the U.S. routes, it's not that massive of an expansion. They are simply returning to the levels that they once were by plugging the holes in their network. As for LIS slots, yes that airport is turning into an operational nightmare but as the largest carrier there they have some flexibility with slots, much like BA at LHR or LH at MUC.

Blerg wrote:
I thought LIS had space issues? I remember their last expansion spree ended in a disaster when they realized they didn't have enough planes to efficiently operate all flights. Let's hope they do better this time around.

The problem last year was actually lack of crew, not lack of planes. They think that problem has been solved according to an interview that I read recently.
 
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PPVLC
Posts: 266
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:31 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
xtra1 wrote:
Macau ... a large Portuguese/Chinese population.

Eh, Macau's population is 650,000, of which just 8,000 are Macanese (mixed Portuguese / Chinese).

Macau is tiny - it's been unable to sustain intercontinental services at multiple points over the years.

Cheers,

C.


Macau's population is around 610,000, similar to Las Vegas
Cabin crew L188 707 727 737 767 A300 DC10 MD11 777 747
 
runway23
Posts: 2319
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:31 pm

PPVLC wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
xtra1 wrote:
Macau ... a large Portuguese/Chinese population.

Eh, Macau's population is 650,000, of which just 8,000 are Macanese (mixed Portuguese / Chinese).

Macau is tiny - it's been unable to sustain intercontinental services at multiple points over the years.

Cheers,

C.


Macau's population is around 610,000, similar to Las Vegas


Barely anyone speaks Portuguese in Macau anymore, little business going on there too. TP are better off concentrating on flights to the Americas and West/South Africa rather than doing Asia which would involve significant backtracking from anything other than the Iberian peninsula.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9953
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:42 pm

Having been to Macau myself I can tell you that it's not true than non one speaks Portuguese in Macau. However only the older generations speak Portuguese.
The new management at TAP has categorically said NO to flights to China. Whether that includes Macau and Hong Kong, it remains to be seen.
However, former colony or not the market between Portugal and Macau is tiny. It's not zero but it's tiny. the fact that neither of the ME3 airlines flies to Macau should tell you how irrelevant that market is for anyone outside of Asia.
Honk Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, Tokyo, Seoul, Bangkok, are all much larger markets from Portugal, Brazil, and Africa, and possibly worthy of service. But not Macau.

From what I've been reading, TP's near term strategy is to use their privileged geographic location to become a relevant airline on 2 new fronts: U.S.-Europe and Europe-West Africa. I think we will see new African destinations added as more NEOs arrive.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3896
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:27 pm

There is very few airlines that fly into Macau. When you can fly into hkg and take a ferry into Macau, there is no actual need to use the small Macau airport.
 
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49Paralell
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:47 pm

Much has been said as to why no Macau here with some good stats. Plus Portuguese economy for the flyers of scale, I do not believe it's there, however, what really peaked my interest was Lisbon San Francisco. Being in Vancouver it makes for an interesting connection if I go home (either that or Montreal).

I will be interested to see how it's going to work but with projected growth of this magnitude, they will have to address Airport issues or they forever will be late for every destination.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1008
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:02 pm

I wonder if they gonna consider LAX, LAS, YVR, OR IAH for further expansion.

What I found surprising is that they don't have ANY connections to Asia. HKG, NRT, ICN, PEK, PVG, CAN, DEL, BOM, SIN, they used to flew to old BKK as well.

Also, Cairo?
 
simpv
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:19 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:11 pm

airbazar wrote:
Having been to Macau myself I can tell you that it's not true than non one speaks Portuguese in Macau. However only the older generations speak Portuguese.
The new management at TAP has categorically said NO to flights to China. Whether that includes Macau and Hong Kong, it remains to be seen.
However, former colony or not the market between Portugal and Macau is tiny. It's not zero but it's tiny. the fact that neither of the ME3 airlines flies to Macau should tell you how irrelevant that market is for anyone outside of Asia.
Honk Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, Tokyo, Seoul, Bangkok, are all much larger markets from Portugal, Brazil, and Africa, and possibly worthy of service. But not Macau.

From what I've been reading, TP's near term strategy is to use their privileged geographic location to become a relevant airline on 2 new fronts: U.S.-Europe and Europe-West Africa. I think we will see new African destinations added as more NEOs arrive.


Portugal also has a privileged location for the US-West Africa, provided the timing is right.
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1432
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:22 pm

And the product should be right. No more A320 flights with European business class to destinations such as Accra etc. people who pay for business class seat don't expect on such sector a regular economy class seat. This will be specially important if they want to attract U.S. to West Africa
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
There is very few airlines that fly into Macau. When you can fly into hkg and take a ferry into Macau, there is no actual need to use the small Macau airport.


And with the HK-Zhuhai-Macau Bridge opening this month, it'll be even more convenient to go from HKG to Macau proper.

Also, TP did flew LIS-MFM first via BRU, then via BKK, back in its final days as colonial master of Macau (around 1995 or so, when Macau Airport opened). Loads were abysmal and not surprisingly, the route lasted less than a year. The business tie between Portugal and Macau are also minimal, nor there's any VFR traffic to speak of. If anything, there are probably more demand from Macau to US or UK than Portugal, and there is probably more business tie between HK and Portugal vs. Macau and Portugal.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:05 pm

santos wrote:
There’s been a thread about it already, plus the link doesn’t work properly


My malware protection gave me a trojan warning when I clicked on it.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9953
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:33 pm

simpv wrote:
Portugal also has a privileged location for the US-West Africa, provided the timing is right.

They are however, due to severe airport constraints they have to pick and chose what markets they want to connect.
Flights from N.America arrive early in the morning so they can connect to other European destinations. But flights to Africa depart in the afternoon and evening, making for a very long connection.

Delta777Jet wrote:
And the product should be right. No more A320 flights with European business class to destinations such as Accra etc. people who pay for business class seat don't expect on such sector a regular economy class seat. This will be specially important if they want to attract U.S. to West Africa

Being able to serve those destinations with a narrowbody is an advantage so that is exactly what you will continue to see. By flying smaller planes TP can offer more non-stop frequencies than any other European carrier besides AF and TK.
 
incitatus
Posts: 3336
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:47 pm

PPVLC wrote:

Macau's population is around 610,000, similar to Las Vegas


Aracaju, Brazil is 650,000 people too. Which one do we compare to Macao?
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:37 am

Any news on the JV with Azul? and JetBlue?
I believe it's hard to compete in the TATL routes against Lufthansa group/United, AF/KLM/Delta and BA/Iberia/AA without being part of a JV...thoughts?
 
PA12
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:54 am

Didn’t they mention EZE for 2019 a couple of months ago?
 
Kikko19
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:48 am

PA12 wrote:
Didn’t they mention EZE for 2019 a couple of months ago?

EZE is still a "secret" ;)
 
airbazar
Posts: 9953
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:22 pm

incitatus wrote:
PPVLC wrote:

Macau's population is around 610,000, similar to Las Vegas


Aracaju, Brazil is 650,000 people too. Which one do we compare to Macao?


Boston is ~680,000 people and the airport handles over 40 million annual passengers of which 95% are O&D.
That right there should tell you that the size of the population is completely irrelevant.
 
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PPVLC
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:47 pm

incitatus wrote:
PPVLC wrote:

Macau's population is around 610,000, similar to Las Vegas


Aracaju, Brazil is 650,000 people too. Which one do we compare to Macao?


I had no idea Aracaju was world-renowned for its casinos...to live is to learn...
Cabin crew L188 707 727 737 767 A300 DC10 MD11 777 747
 
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PPVLC
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:49 pm

airbazar wrote:
incitatus wrote:
PPVLC wrote:

Macau's population is around 610,000, similar to Las Vegas


Aracaju, Brazil is 650,000 people too. Which one do we compare to Macao?


Boston is ~680,000 people and the airport handles over 40 million annual passengers of which 95% are O&D.
That right there should tell you that the size of the population is completely irrelevant.


that was exactly my point
Cabin crew L188 707 727 737 767 A300 DC10 MD11 777 747
 
PA12
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Boston 680k, but what is the metro pop? That’s what counts. People from the metro area (suburbs, etc.) most probably use Boston’s airport too, or do they not?
 
Armaghman
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:40 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong–Zhuhai–Macau_Bridge

Why anyone would fly long haul to Macau given the motorway goes straight from HK airport would be beyond me!

Europeans all go to Las Vegas so no market there for TP either
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1243
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:47 pm

I wonder why they haven't eyed MEX as a destination.
It is an airport with over 44M pax and a booming activity to Europe.

TP will not have the problems EK, TK and QR have regarding distance to their hubs. LIS-MEX is short and LIS offers a very convenient connection from every single European airport (except maybe KEF).
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
Kikko19
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:58 pm

Mex, Hav and Cun. I would love it. Of course low yield and IB and air Europa as competitors
 
B8887
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:34 pm

@Blerg

You are correct. The problem at LIS is space, and more specifically aircraft parking spaces.

It's almost a miracle the airport handles 26 million pax in such a tight environment.

Macau will not happen..

Regards.

B8887
 
Planeflyer
Posts: 1445
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:49 am

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:21 pm

Is TAP trying to be super mini ek between NA and West Africa? Have they ever played this role ?
 
airbazar
Posts: 9953
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Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:41 pm

Planeflyer wrote:
Is TAP trying to be super mini ek between NA and West Africa? Have they ever played this role ?

No, and no. The airport does not allow for a single connection bank so flights have to be spread out over the day making for lengthy connection times between certain city pairs.
To quote their CEO, "TAP wants to be relevant in the Transatlantic market". In other words, they want to expand U.S./Canada - Europe.
Please see the other thread mentioned in an above post. There's a lot of good discussions there about TAP and LIS, and Portugal in general.
 
B8887
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:06 pm

The point about the possibility of being a mini EK is a valid one though..

LIS is indeed a strategic location and it's a pity they do not take more advantages out of it.

On the other hand, Portugal is not the UAE and there are more differences that may explain that.

TP in the US is really surprising me though, on the positive.

I suppose the promotion of Portugal as an excellent holiday destination (which it is) is really paying off.

Way to go TP..

Regards.

B8887
 
airbazar
Posts: 9953
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal incredible expansion

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:53 pm

B8887 wrote:
The point about the possibility of being a mini EK is a valid one though..
LIS is indeed a strategic location and it's a pity they do not take more advantages out of it.

They can't because they have no airport to suport such operation and the political establishment in Portugal is too narrow-minded to see things that way.
Had they gone ahead with the former plan to build a new airport, it would have opened 2 years ago if on schedule and today's conversation would be completely different. But as it stands, there's a huge list of airlines that want to start new routes or increase flights to LIS and can't, TAP included. And that is money being thrown out the window, and lots of it.

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