LAXBUR
Posts: 355
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:30 am

CobaltScar wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Those people want something that sounds sophisticated, worldly and culturally rich, they don't want their friends thinking they are boarding a flight to Anchorage or Fairbanks.


What did the State of Alaska or Alaska Airlines do to you exactly? lol

People get on a Southwest plane to fly from the Midwest to New England. For years folks didn’t get on Northwest planes only going to a dated geographical reference. Promiscuous persons get on Virgin planes.

Alaska has been used for 75 years. They’ve flown from California to Mexico, then Hawaii and Costa Rica. Their biggest hub isn’t even in Alaska. The airline isn’t even based in Alaska.


If you've been around 75 years and your claim to fame is dominating three low population sates, its time for a marketing make over.

Fact is style matters. You can get away with more , for less, with slick marketing and style. (like at jetBlue). We can't be a slave to tradition and fly into cosmopolitan world capitals with a name that conjures images akin to Siberia and other wastelands in peoples minds, and a picture of E.T. on your planes tail.


You seem a bit angry. Being offensive and immature doesn't really prove your point. Customer satisfaction surveys and profits do. Alaska was good at both. Virgin was good at one. So...I'll leave it at that.
 
NWADTWE16
Posts: 686
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:12 am

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:45 am

you all make me want to bash my head into this screen with the B6 is dead talk. B6 goes to the majors, I'd expect you all on the streets protesting our oligarch government. I do however agree that B6+AS are the perfect fit, and I never thought I'd say this but B6 mgmt. should get kicked out in that deal, but I do believe the B6 name stays, it has more global power and this carrier would be going global.

Whoever said the combined carrier would have no SW US or SE US presence, WTH are you smokin', put it down, you've had enough. Where are the cariers hubs now, FLL , where is that SOUTHEAST, and Alaska, SAN , where is that, SOUTHWEST.

While on the topic of the carrier that has everyone fooled, WN purchasing B6 should be an instant NO from any approval. There is no synergy in fleet, and a TON of seats would be taken from the sky resulting in skyrocketing prices for consumers. WN fooled regulators once, but they even stated publically the same thing would not happen again
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:02 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
you all make me want to bash my head into this screen with the B6 is dead talk. B6 goes to the majors, I'd expect you all on the streets protesting our oligarch government. I do however agree that B6+AS are the perfect fit, and I never thought I'd say this but B6 mgmt. should get kicked out in that deal, but I do believe the B6 name stays, it has more global power and this carrier would be going global.

Whoever said the combined carrier would have no SW US or SE US presence, WTH are you smokin', put it down, you've had enough. Where are the cariers hubs now, FLL , where is that SOUTHEAST, and Alaska, SAN , where is that, SOUTHWEST.

While on the topic of the carrier that has everyone fooled, WN purchasing B6 should be an instant NO from any approval. There is no synergy in fleet, and a TON of seats would be taken from the sky resulting in skyrocketing prices for consumers. WN fooled regulators once, but they even stated publically the same thing would not happen again



Man I have to agree with that.
If you want prices to really go up let SWA buy up JetBlue. BOS and JFK will be like Atlanta.
FLL would be under solid control of SWA.
The west would be even further under control of SWA.

Our management is very very slow about doing anything. I don’t agree with the article that we couldn’t feed Europe and we need big planes the 321lrs would be fine.

Now we all assume they must merge I don’t think that’s true. They will cut some city’s and get the network under control. The 220s can do a ton of stuff and can do red eyes while the current 190 fleet is sleeping due to its lack of range. They still have growth in BOS and FLL and in the future MCO.
They can also “grow” by swapping into more 321s.
I think the future JetBlue is 220s and 321s. I still think Europe happens and if this basic economy works that will help as well.

I guess we will see.
 
Buffalomatt1027
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:02 am

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:07 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Big changes are coming to JetBlue.

From someone that knows a bit more… I honestly don’t see a path forward as a standalone entity with this management team in place.

They are too cautious, risk-averse, and slow to respond and execute.

The net result is a fleet of planes and a LCC product better positioned for 2010 then 2020.

What is JetBlue today?

A small southwest?
A legacy wannabe?
An ULCC in the making?
The next Alaska?

This is the internal struggle. This is not a net fodder. It is very real.

They don’t know what they want to be.

They don’t know how to get to the place they want to be.

Their stock price reflects this as Wall Street is averse to uncertainty.

It is not too late for them to turn this around… But they have to do something already! Something, anything! And they have to do it in a timely manner.

The article rightly points out...The company could no longer sit in its current position


Jetblue also lost its "coolness" factor. I remember when jetblue first came out, the TVs / direct TV on each seat was revolutionary. Now, other air carriers have wireless internet and have an app where you can watch movies. They no longer have a unique product.
 
caljn
Posts: 258
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:37 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:29 am

BOS is close to CT; especially Greenwich where a lot of investment bankers live or have business. Plus with the gates you can start Int'l flying to the major centers of Europe. Not make it a 'hub' but a focus city that commands high fares.
Now drop over to JFK and the corporate contracts that do not want to go to EWR. Plus, with all due respect to EWR, it is not NY.


Yes UA go spend a boatload of money to acquire an airline so you may partake in the privilege of ops at a mish-mosh of buildings in the
swamps of Queens. So glamourous.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2096
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:28 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I see B6 as more likely to buy out AS than the other way around, with the desire to build up a presence on the West Coast and Alaska, and possibly give AA a challenge at DFW, especially on domestic services. That would give the USA five major national domestic airlines.


AS's market cap is nearly twice that of Jetblue.

AS historically prints money, Jetblue does not.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
impilot
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:38 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:40 am

Varsity1 wrote:

AS's market cap is nearly twice that of Jetblue.

AS historically prints money, Jetblue does not.


$8bn is not twice $6bn. And I’m pretty sure JB has been printing money historically.
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:06 am

UA would be more than happy to buy B6 and divest 75% of the JFK slots to WN, NK, and AS just to screw over DL.

If executed properly, it could make UA the transcon leader.

I doubt UA in FLL would last any longer than CLE did after the merger (and I doubt they’d even try). MCO is also a pretty big station that’d evaporate. The Caribbean? I’m not sure ... that could be interesting.

Maybe they could find a way to pull something off in BOS but I doubt it. They’d need to reassign at least 2, but probably 3, LHR slots.

Slots at DCA would certainly be helpful.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:42 am

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Big changes are coming to JetBlue.

From someone that knows a bit more… I honestly don’t see a path forward as a standalone entity with this management team in place.

They are too cautious, risk-averse, and slow to respond and execute.

The net result is a fleet of planes and a LCC product better positioned for 2010 then 2020.

What is JetBlue today?

A small southwest?
A legacy wannabe?
An ULCC in the making?
The next Alaska?

This is the internal struggle. This is not a net fodder. It is very real.

They don’t know what they want to be.

They don’t know how to get to the place they want to be.

Their stock price reflects this as Wall Street is averse to uncertainty.

It is not too late for them to turn this around… But they have to do something already! Something, anything! And they have to do it in a timely manner.

The article rightly points out...The company could no longer sit in its current position


Jetblue also lost its "coolness" factor. I remember when jetblue first came out, the TVs / direct TV on each seat was revolutionary. Now, other air carriers have wireless internet and have an app where you can watch movies. They no longer have a unique product.


I’ve found the TV’s on B6 as old as they are on some of the older builds to be more reliable than the WiFi, in flight apps, or a working power outlet on most of the majors.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
toltommy
Posts: 2735
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:52 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
Whoever said the combined carrier would have no SW US or SE US presence, WTH are you smokin', put it down, you've had enough. Where are the cariers hubs now, FLL , where is that SOUTHEAST, and Alaska, SAN , where is that, SOUTHWEST.


Feel free to report for your DOT test any time. For leaving the country FLL might work. But the combined carrier will suffer massive yield pressure from NK and WN. But it would never work to connect someone from DTW to MSY. SAN may work for Mexico, but the airport is limited in both size and capacity. And it will never work to connect someone from SLC to BUR. Both are too far south to be effective north/south hubs.
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333 / 707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753
/762/763/764/772/788/789/DC8/DC9-10/30/40/50/MD81/83/87/88/90/L1011-/250/500/CRJ200/440 /700/900/EMB135/140/145/170/175/190/328Jet/F70/SF3/BE1/J31
 
FlyinRabbit88
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:53 am

Here is the thing..... Jetblue management has been hinting at flying to Europe for over 2 years now and still “haven’t decided” if they want to be “disruptive to the high premium fares”. They don’t want to go the wide body route since if things don’t go as they want they don’t have almost half the company’s cash tied into 10-15 A330s or whatever and then trying to find a place to put them on. They don’t want to commit on the LR because the numbers don’t look good to make it in the winter without a tech stop on the way back to the US. But they might decide on the paper airplane that is the XLR. But “MAYBE” there is a chance an all mint A220 could go to London city....
I understand why Jetblue and it’s management wants to be conservative, but why leak the idea when we all know Delta, British Airways, and the other legacy airlines are just waiting to counter any move Jetblue decides to go for and have been storing cash just in case it becomes official. Jetblue caught everyone by surprise when they launched, they caught everyone by surprise with Mint, do you really think Delta with the Billions in the war chest isn’t going to be ready to counter with at least 4 year lead time?
And that’s the most frustrating part, we can’t seem to figure out things affecting the day to day ops, how can investors expect going to Europe would work especially in an IROP on the financial side of things.
All the tech ventures could be game changers, but what have they really done for the day to day ops and to continue to bring humanity to the US airline industry. Many of us are full in and buy the Jetblue brand, but many are confused on what direction we are striving to go...
Are we being set up to be sold? Are we downsizing? Are we still hurting from now winning the bid for Virgin America? Is organic growth out on the west coast a failure?
It’s confusing and frustrating.
 
Max Q
Posts: 7990
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:11 am

The least likely scenario is a combination that would challenge
the big three


And if you can’t go toe to toe with them you need to keep your head
down or be crushed
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
77H
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:17 am

Prost wrote:
Thoughts are somebody is trying to goose B6 stock price.


Well we all know how that turned out for Elon.

77H
 
77H
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:59 am

jetero wrote:
UA would be more than happy to buy B6 and divest 75% of the JFK slots to WN, NK, and AS just to screw over DL.

If executed properly, it could make UA the transcon leader.

I doubt UA in FLL would last any longer than CLE did after the merger (and I doubt they’d even try). MCO is also a pretty big station that’d evaporate. The Caribbean? I’m not sure ... that could be interesting.

Maybe they could find a way to pull something off in BOS but I doubt it. They’d need to reassign at least 2, but probably 3, LHR slots.

Slots at DCA would certainly be helpful.


A combined UA/B6 would be interesting when picturing the hub structure and network you’ve laid out. In addition to the massive divesture of slots, offering up JFK T5 to DL would likely be a money maker as well. UA and the other carriers you mentioned could use the vacated T2.

I’m not so sure FLL would go the way of CLE. The FLL/MIA CBSA is an ever growing market. Distinct enough to not be under threat from AA’s MIA and far enough away from IAD and IAH to not overlap. It would give them clear dominance in the Caribbean and allow them to tap into the huge S. FL-LatAm market.

UA is currently growing their presence in BOS, especially in the transcon market but doesn’t need 3 hubs within 415 mi of each other. I’d expect UA to cut most of the New England regional flights to BOS choosing to route those over IAD leaving the focus on TCON services and business driven O&D markets.

LGB would certainly be abandoned either voluntarily or through divestures. UA’s presents at LAX and SNA make LGB redundant and anti competitive.

Absorbing B6 also gives them a large fleet of 320s that would allow for the parking of more small RJs. The E90s would allow scope relief allowing the addition of larger RJs. The 321s would allow for the immediate parking of the pmUA 752s. The 321s could also be sold off and/or returned to the lessor as the MadMAXs arrive.

That said, while interesting to speculate, the chances of UA buying B6 are remote. 8 years after the merger and the last major work group is just now being integrated. After a tumultuous 8 years the new UA is finally coming into its own. Another merger only serves to throw a monkey wrench into everything UA has been accomplishing.
UA is growing just fine organically at a good pace in a calculated manner.

A combined AS+B6 is also an interesting proposition to consider but likely too soon after the VX merger to be feasible now.

If B6 were to combine with and of the US3 or AS it would be a blow to HA. While I’m sure they don’t receive a ton of feed from B6 given their EC-centric network, a B6 acquisition would leave HA without a domestic partner which would hinder the notions of growth in markets outside of those with large O&D to/from HI.

77H
 
flyby519
Posts: 1494
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:04 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Those people want something that sounds sophisticated, worldly and culturally rich, they don't want their friends thinking they are boarding a flight to Anchorage or Fairbanks.


What did the State of Alaska or Alaska Airlines do to you exactly? lol

People get on a Southwest plane to fly from the Midwest to New England. For years folks didn’t get on Northwest planes only going to a dated geographical reference. Promiscuous persons get on Virgin planes.

Alaska has been used for 75 years. They’ve flown from California to Mexico, then Hawaii and Costa Rica. Their buggiest hub isn’t even in Alaska. The airline isn’t even based in Alaska.


If you've been around 75 years and your claim to fame is dominating three low population sates, its time for a marketing make over.

Fact is style matters. You can get away with more , for less, with slick marketing and style. (like at jetBlue). We can't be a slave to tradition and fly into cosmopolitan world capitals with a name that conjures images akin to Siberia and other wastelands in peoples minds, and a picture of E.T. on your planes tail.


Holy crap! BURN!!! :lol: :hot:
 
tphuang
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:34 pm

flyby519 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Maybe B6 should buy NK strengthen it's overall network in turn killing off ULCC.
BENZ on the JetBlue board after all he knows a thing or two about Spirit.

Flyguy


Not the craziest idea. The NK/B6 combo would lock down FLL and leave F9 without a merger partner (not that they need one, but everyone has already assumed F9/NK would happen)

Apparently, B6 execs have been showing up at F9 HQ. Take that for what you will. NK is probably too expensive for a straight purchase by B6.

Varsity1 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
I see B6 as more likely to buy out AS than the other way around, with the desire to build up a presence on the West Coast and Alaska, and possibly give AA a challenge at DFW, especially on domestic services. That would give the USA five major national domestic airlines.


AS's market cap is nearly twice that of Jetblue.

AS historically prints money, Jetblue does not.


That's not even remotely true.

JBLU market cap is around $6 billion and ALK market cap is around $8 billion. How is that double.

And circumstances are different now. AS is in a lot of trouble. Wait until those WN go into HI and see where AS profit margin goes to. AS is about to go into a more competitive environment than ever before. To expect that it can keep generating the same profit level as it did before it got VX's money loosing network, got into turf war with WN in California and entrance into HI is entirely unreasonable. And B6 is finally reaping the benefit of becoming the top dog at BOS and FLL. These are difference times. AA was almost as profitable as DL as recently as in 2015 and now it has the worst margin of any major airlines.

jetero wrote:
UA would be more than happy to buy B6 and divest 75% of the JFK slots to WN, NK, and AS just to screw over DL.

If executed properly, it could make UA the transcon leader.

I doubt UA in FLL would last any longer than CLE did after the merger (and I doubt they’d even try). MCO is also a pretty big station that’d evaporate. The Caribbean? I’m not sure ... that could be interesting.

Maybe they could find a way to pull something off in BOS but I doubt it. They’d need to reassign at least 2, but probably 3, LHR slots.

Slots at DCA would certainly be helpful.

exactly. That's entirely what would happen if UA made a purchase. Not worth $10 billion imo. But Kirby would gladly pick up B6 if it was loosing money and he could get it for cheap.
 
CaptPizzaPants
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:44 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:52 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Big changes are coming to JetBlue.

From someone that knows a bit more… I honestly don’t see a path forward as a standalone entity with this management team in place.

They are too cautious, risk-averse, and slow to respond and execute.

The net result is a fleet of planes and a LCC product better positioned for 2010 then 2020.

What is JetBlue today?

A small southwest?
A legacy wannabe?
An ULCC in the making?
The next Alaska?

This is the internal struggle. This is not a net fodder. It is very real.

They don’t know what they want to be.

They don’t know how to get to the place they want to be.

Their stock price reflects this as Wall Street is averse to uncertainty.

It is not too late for them to turn this around… But they have to do something already! Something, anything! And they have to do it in a timely manner.

The article rightly points out...The company could no longer sit in its current position


Jetblue also lost its "coolness" factor. I remember when jetblue first came out, the TVs / direct TV on each seat was revolutionary. Now, other air carriers have wireless internet and have an app where you can watch movies. They no longer have a unique product.



Eh I respectfully disagree. Compare jetBlue's entire inflight product to others and you'll see the difference. Others charge you extra for wifi (or give you limited free access - texting Wow!) while jetBlue's is free for everything. They also have a fairly good snack assortment and more legroom. Sure, others have free Tv but that's about it.
 
twinotter
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:13 am

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:54 pm

Varsity1 wrote:

AS historically prints money, Jetblue does not.


You might want to invest in Sears Roebuck. Historically, they print money.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2096
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:59 pm

impilot wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

AS's market cap is nearly twice that of Jetblue.

AS historically prints money, Jetblue does not.


$8bn is not twice $6bn. And I’m pretty sure JB has been printing money historically.



You'd be wrong. Jetblue has been a sick duck since it was founded.

Alaska's market cap was 10.9bn before taking massive write downs from the merger. Bones are still there, it will be back quite soon.

Alaska is a Legacy Airline. JB is a dorky flash in the pan.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
CaptPizzaPants
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:44 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:15 pm

From the President & COO:

“I’d call this article ‘clickbait’ that’s trying hard to stand out in a sea of news," says Joanna.

“It implies that our talk of transatlantic flying, which we know is so lucrative for the legacies (because of what Robin has noted are 'obscene fares'), is just bait to provoke one of those mega-carriers to make a move to acquire JetBlue."

"It’s pretty odd logic if you ask me!” says Joanna.

“As Robin shared in today's BlueNote we’re in a strong place to grow independently, and couldn’t be more excited by this next chapter in our story! Rest assured, we’re 100% focused on executing our organic growth plans for the continued success and long-term prosperity of JetBlue and our mission to Inspire Humanity.”

“Even the author calls out the very same regulatory hurdles we’ve been long said would be an impediment to any of the legacy carriers getting another merger deal done.”

“File this one under: 'Bizarre.'"
 
tphuang
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:21 pm

FlyinRabbit88 wrote:
Here is the thing..... Jetblue management has been hinting at flying to Europe for over 2 years now and still “haven’t decided” if they want to be “disruptive to the high premium fares”. They don’t want to go the wide body route since if things don’t go as they want they don’t have almost half the company’s cash tied into 10-15 A330s or whatever and then trying to find a place to put them on. They don’t want to commit on the LR because the numbers don’t look good to make it in the winter without a tech stop on the way back to the US. But they might decide on the paper airplane that is the XLR. But “MAYBE” there is a chance an all mint A220 could go to London city....
I understand why Jetblue and it’s management wants to be conservative, but why leak the idea when we all know Delta, British Airways, and the other legacy airlines are just waiting to counter any move Jetblue decides to go for and have been storing cash just in case it becomes official. Jetblue caught everyone by surprise when they launched, they caught everyone by surprise with Mint, do you really think Delta with the Billions in the war chest isn’t going to be ready to counter with at least 4 year lead time?

A couple of reasons I think for them waiting on Europe outside the general conservative nature/slowness of the management.
1) engine issues with GTF A321NEOs. They might be afraid that it won't be ready with pip by then and LR gets delayed. Not a unreasonable belief based on all the issue we've seen.
2) waiting for XLR. Wait another year or 2 and get an aircraft capable of reaching Central Europe from Boston and anywhere in South America from FLL.
3) waiting on A220 to get ETOPS cert and then go all J into LCY.

There is really nothing Delta can do to prevent JetBlue from launching a low cost premium product in TATL market. I don't see how cash has anything to do with it. You think the investors are going to take it kindly if they loose money to fight JetBlue in TATL? And they don't have the slots or pricing power at London to do anything other than continuing their current service level. DL had years to prepare for B6 entrance into ATL and MSP and the results so far are about what anyone would expect. They had several years to prepare mint entrance on JFK-SEA/SAN/LAS and have now seen their yield tank in these markets.

And that’s the most frustrating part, we can’t seem to figure out things affecting the day to day ops, how can investors expect going to Europe would work especially in an IROP on the financial side of things.
All the tech ventures could be game changers, but what have they really done for the day to day ops and to continue to bring humanity to the US airline industry. Many of us are full in and buy the Jetblue brand, but many are confused on what direction we are striving to go...
Are we being set up to be sold? Are we downsizing? Are we still hurting from now winning the bid for Virgin America? Is organic growth out on the west coast a failure?
It’s confusing and frustrating.


IRROP to Europe would actually be easier than IRROP in continental USA since they can reacommodate people on EI/TP/FI flights as part of the interline agreement.

"Bring humanity" is dead. It can't make money in today's airline industry.

As for tech ventures, you have to think of it as any VC. If even one project hits, it will make a lot of money and be worth all the investments in projects that failed.

"not winning" VX bid was the best thing that could've happened to B6. Can you imagine where their finances would be if they got distracted by a merger and have to fight off DL in BOS and WN in FLL? I wouldn't worry about organic growth out West right now. Continue building up BOS/FLL (and JFK if slots go away) and maintain above average margin. When the next economy depression hits, there will be plenty of opportunities for B6 to gain if they have better finances than other airlines. And I think we are going into a down cycle in airline industry.

fastmover wrote:

Our management is very very slow about doing anything. I don’t agree with the article that we couldn’t feed Europe and we need big planes the 321lrs would be fine.

Now we all assume they must merge I don’t think that’s true. They will cut some city’s and get the network under control. The 220s can do a ton of stuff and can do red eyes while the current 190 fleet is sleeping due to its lack of range. They still have growth in BOS and FLL and in the future MCO.
They can also “grow” by swapping into more 321s.
I think the future JetBlue is 220s and 321s. I still think Europe happens and if this basic economy works that will help as well.

I guess we will see.


I understand there is a lot of frustration out there for slowness of the management, but there are many slow moving management out there that have managed to stand alone for years. AS just comfortably stayed in PNW for decades. Primera and Norwegian have the most ambitious management in the industry and one has gone belly up and the other is in grave danger.

For me the frustration with Europe is that they've spent the past few months telling everyone in the planet that they can do great things going to Europe and just keep us waiting on it! For an airline that hasn't made a decision, they have sure talked about it a lot.

Not winning VX has worked out great for them. Taking forever on the A220 vs E2 competition worked out for them. Swapping A321CEO/NEO delivery times worked out for them. Waiting forever on the A321NEO engine decision look to have worked out for them. Maybe they think taking all the time in the world on Europe will work out for them too. I think it's a bad idea to wait until DL is building up in BOS.

People keep forgetting they just got 6 more gates at BOS and 5 more gates at FLL and many more gates at MCO. That's a lot of growth in the next few years. In fact, they are expanding more than any of the non-ULCC carriers. Let's see how the network redeployment work out. I hope to see they finally cut some of the Cuba flying.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:49 pm

We're hitting a lot of old favorites in this thread, let's add anther.

IAG for 25% share to feed it's TATL flights. You see, it does but hate to be about courting one of the big three... :duck:
Last edited by NameOmitted on Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
fastmover
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:51 pm

tphuang wrote:
FlyinRabbit88 wrote:
Here is the thing..... Jetblue management has been hinting at flying to Europe for over 2 years now and still “haven’t decided” if they want to be “disruptive to the high premium fares”. They don’t want to go the wide body route since if things don’t go as they want they don’t have almost half the company’s cash tied into 10-15 A330s or whatever and then trying to find a place to put them on. They don’t want to commit on the LR because the numbers don’t look good to make it in the winter without a tech stop on the way back to the US. But they might decide on the paper airplane that is the XLR. But “MAYBE” there is a chance an all mint A220 could go to London city....
I understand why Jetblue and it’s management wants to be conservative, but why leak the idea when we all know Delta, British Airways, and the other legacy airlines are just waiting to counter any move Jetblue decides to go for and have been storing cash just in case it becomes official. Jetblue caught everyone by surprise when they launched, they caught everyone by surprise with Mint, do you really think Delta with the Billions in the war chest isn’t going to be ready to counter with at least 4 year lead time?

A couple of reasons I think for them waiting on Europe outside the general conservative nature/slowness of the management.
1) engine issues with GTF A321NEOs. They might be afraid that it won't be ready with pip by then and LR gets delayed. Not a unreasonable belief based on all the issue we've seen.
2) waiting for XLR. Wait another year or 2 and get an aircraft capable of reaching Central Europe from Boston and anywhere in South America from FLL.
3) waiting on A220 to get ETOPS cert and then go all J into LCY.

There is really nothing Delta can do to prevent JetBlue from launching a low cost premium product in TATL market. I don't see how cash has anything to do with it. You think the investors are going to take it kindly if they loose money to fight JetBlue in TATL? And they don't have the slots or pricing power at London to do anything other than continuing their current service level. DL had years to prepare for B6 entrance into ATL and MSP and the results so far are about what anyone would expect. They had several years to prepare mint entrance on JFK-SEA/SAN/LAS and have now seen their yield tank in these markets.

And that’s the most frustrating part, we can’t seem to figure out things affecting the day to day ops, how can investors expect going to Europe would work especially in an IROP on the financial side of things.
All the tech ventures could be game changers, but what have they really done for the day to day ops and to continue to bring humanity to the US airline industry. Many of us are full in and buy the Jetblue brand, but many are confused on what direction we are striving to go...
Are we being set up to be sold? Are we downsizing? Are we still hurting from now winning the bid for Virgin America? Is organic growth out on the west coast a failure?
It’s confusing and frustrating.


IRROP to Europe would actually be easier than IRROP in continental USA since they can reacommodate people on EI/TP/FI flights as part of the interline agreement.

"Bring humanity" is dead. It can't make money in today's airline industry.

As for tech ventures, you have to think of it as any VC. If even one project hits, it will make a lot of money and be worth all the investments in projects that failed.

"not winning" VX bid was the best thing that could've happened to B6. Can you imagine where their finances would be if they got distracted by a merger and have to fight off DL in BOS and WN in FLL? I wouldn't worry about organic growth out West right now. Continue building up BOS/FLL (and JFK if slots go away) and maintain above average margin. When the next economy depression hits, there will be plenty of opportunities for B6 to gain if they have better finances than other airlines. And I think we are going into a down cycle in airline industry.

fastmover wrote:

Our management is very very slow about doing anything. I don’t agree with the article that we couldn’t feed Europe and we need big planes the 321lrs would be fine.

Now we all assume they must merge I don’t think that’s true. They will cut some city’s and get the network under control. The 220s can do a ton of stuff and can do red eyes while the current 190 fleet is sleeping due to its lack of range. They still have growth in BOS and FLL and in the future MCO.
They can also “grow” by swapping into more 321s.
I think the future JetBlue is 220s and 321s. I still think Europe happens and if this basic economy works that will help as well.

I guess we will see.


I understand there is a lot of frustration out there for slowness of the management, but there are many slow moving management out there that have managed to stand alone for years. AS just comfortably stayed in PNW for decades. Primera and Norwegian have the most ambitious management in the industry and one has gone belly up and the other is in grave danger.

For me the frustration with Europe is that they've spent the past few months telling everyone in the planet that they can do great things going to Europe and just keep us waiting on it! For an airline that hasn't made a decision, they have sure talked about it a lot.

Not winning VX has worked out great for them. Taking forever on the A220 vs E2 competition worked out for them. Swapping A321CEO/NEO delivery times worked out for them. Waiting forever on the A321NEO engine decision look to have worked out for them. Maybe they think taking all the time in the world on Europe will work out for them too. I think it's a bad idea to wait until DL is building up in BOS.

People keep forgetting they just got 6 more gates at BOS and 5 more gates at FLL and many more gates at MCO. That's a lot of growth in the next few years. In fact, they are expanding more than any of the non-ULCC carriers. Let's see how the network redeployment work out. I hope to see they finally cut some of the Cuba flying.




It’s not the slow part it’s the total lack of communication. During that call they all said how excited they were about the future and the great plan they have. Good now the problem is the employees have no clue what that plan is. Maybe they do have one and I hope so but the regular guys a jetblue are sitting around saying what are we doing?

I don’t think jetblue is dead far far from it. What we need is a clear direction with clear defined goals we can achieve. They are sitting on a ton of potential they just need to let it out. It’s one thing to be cautious but at some point you must act.
 
twaconnie
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:52 pm

The JetBlue saga is starting to sound like the Air Berlin story.Don't know witch way to go.
 
evank516
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:59 pm

727200 wrote:
adtall wrote:
I'll reask the question, what does UA get out of merging with B6 that they want? FLL is not a southern hub, it's a Florida/Caribbean/Latin America hub. Nice to have, but worth $10 billion when IAH exists as an ok substitute, not to mention the Caribbean and Latin American coverage from EWR and IAD? Speaking of, UA already has EWR and IAD in the northeast with absolutely no need for a JFK hub or a BOS focus city/hub. BOS, I'm not sure they care anyways. Fleet similarity has been shown to not be a big factor. Measuring contests also are not good reasons to merge. What is the $10 billion reason for UA to buy B6?


You do not see the big picture.

BOS is close to CT; especially Greenwich where a lot of investment bankers live or have business. Plus with the gates you can start Int'l flying to the major centers of Europe. Not make it a 'hub' but a focus city that commands high fares.


Just so you know, the airport code for LAGUARDIA is LGA, and the airport code for Westchester County is HPN. These are the two closest airports with lots of commercial air service (not really going to count HVN here). BOS is the code for Boston which is nowhere within reach of Greenwich.
 
Flighty
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:07 pm

enilria wrote:
I also don't think AA/DL/UA would be allowed to buy them (I pray). WN maybe, but then the Europe argument is moot.


Agreed, Big3 are off the table. I don't think WN/AirTran merger was even legal, considering the way AirTran led pricing across most of the populated USA. It was a case study in mergers that materially harm consumers (mergers that are not supposed to be approved).

So, I would even argue WN cannot buy B6 because it would harm consumers (so it would be illegal). I suppose AS/B6 is the merger I am looking for. I don't think Spirit uses a compatible business model.
 
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enilria
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:16 pm

Flighty wrote:
enilria wrote:
I also don't think AA/DL/UA would be allowed to buy them (I pray). WN maybe, but then the Europe argument is moot.


Agreed, Big3 are off the table. I don't think WN/AirTran merger was even legal, considering the way AirTran led pricing across most of the populated USA. It was a case study in mergers that materially harm consumers (mergers that are not supposed to be approved).

So, I would even argue WN cannot buy B6 because it would harm consumers (so it would be illegal). I suppose AS/B6 is the merger I am looking for. I don't think Spirit uses a compatible business model.

I don't want anybody else to merge, but given the route networks AS/B6 are now inevitable. The pullback of B6 from LGB and AS from routes like LAS-JFK and FLL-JFK seem to be almost positioning to prepare.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:31 pm

enilria wrote:
Flighty wrote:
enilria wrote:
I also don't think AA/DL/UA would be allowed to buy them (I pray). WN maybe, but then the Europe argument is moot.


Agreed, Big3 are off the table. I don't think WN/AirTran merger was even legal, considering the way AirTran led pricing across most of the populated USA. It was a case study in mergers that materially harm consumers (mergers that are not supposed to be approved).

So, I would even argue WN cannot buy B6 because it would harm consumers (so it would be illegal). I suppose AS/B6 is the merger I am looking for. I don't think Spirit uses a compatible business model.

I don't want anybody else to merge, but given the route networks AS/B6 are now inevitable. The pullback of B6 from LGB and AS from routes like LAS-JFK and FLL-JFK seem to be almost positioning to prepare.



I agree 100 percent. Both are pulling back out of each others respective territories and concentrating on their own back yards. Throw Hawaii into the mix to help profit/yields to Hawaii for everyone and gain some wide-bodies for pacific out of SEA, Atlantic out of BOS/JFK, and S. America out of FLL. This is the next global airline in the making.

The writing is on the wall.
 
EarlyLateORD
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:42 pm

I know this is all a pipe dream, but you could make a case for a 4-way combination of SY/B6/AS and HA.

As one airline you would have widebodies for the Pacific and perhaps a few leftovers to begin Atlantic service.

You would have strong hubs at SEA-PDX-JFK-BOS-MSP-HNL-FLL.

All this combination lacks is a major SE hub.

Adam
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:49 pm

EarlyLateORD wrote:
I know this is all a pipe dream, but you could make a case for a 4-way combination of SY/B6/AS and HA.

As one airline you would have widebodies for the Pacific and perhaps a few leftovers to begin Atlantic service.

You would have strong hubs at SEA-PDX-JFK-BOS-MSP-HNL-FLL.

All this combination lacks is a major SE hub.

Adam


One word: Austin
 
tphuang
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:52 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
impilot wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

AS's market cap is nearly twice that of Jetblue.

AS historically prints money, Jetblue does not.


$8bn is not twice $6bn. And I’m pretty sure JB has been printing money historically.



You'd be wrong. Jetblue has been a sick duck since it was founded.

Alaska's market cap was 10.9bn before taking massive write downs from the merger. Bones are still there, it will be back quite soon.

Alaska is a Legacy Airline. JB is a dorky flash in the pan.


That was back in early 2016. JetBlue was at $8 billion back then. In fact, all airline stocks were higher back then. Historical performance doesn't mean much when market dynamics are quickly changing. AS has been printing money on HI flights for the past decade. Now with HA having A321NEO and WN entering, that's going to crash substantially. SEA profit is down with DL adding so much capacity. West Coast operation is getting squeezed by WN. SFO expansion has been loss leading. They make money at SEA/PDX/ANC/HI and loose money everywhere else. So unless they are pulling back from California, where is this great profit coming from?
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:57 pm

Interesting that it always comes back to AS in JetBlue threads. Is it not possible to talk about JetBlue without dragging Chester into it?

AS and JetBlue = different strokes for different folks. Comparing them seems silly and pointless, as they are entirely different carriers and business models.

B6+F9 seems odd at this stage aside from getting a DEN hub and perhaps eliminating an ULCC competitor. Shades of PE+FL. That didn’t work out well but maybe this time will be different. Perhaps it’s a poison pill to be too big to acquire later?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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madpropsyo
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:03 pm

Just to play devil’s advocate here against the a.net conclusion that AS + B6 is not only logical but inevitable because of their route networks, I don’t think they are as complementary as everyone thinks.

Essentially you have two carriers who do the same thing on opposite coasts. A big % of North/South market share and point to point transcon service to the opposite side of the country. To gain network utility for either carrier you would have to offer increased connections and service to cities the other airline doesn’t serve. The problem there is they serve almost all of the same big cities from their respective coasts, and the other cities they would add utility to are either already served by each airline’s respective partners or not really useful for gaining passengers in the combined network. Really the only advantages I could see would be to introduce AS’s regional aircraft to serve smaller markets on the east coast that B6 doesn’t already serve, adding midcontinent service from the east coast to places AS serves, or adding TATL/TPAC service to leverage the larger customer base, but doing that would damage the partnerships that help make both airlines successful.

I know it’s fun from an enthusiast point of view to think about having a 5th national carrier but I don’t think it would be the raging success everyone here assumes it would be. On the other hand, I do see there being opportunity for AS and B6 to become close partners. You’d get most of the benefit of a merger, but none of the headache or heartache of losing either brand, or the inevitable difficulties of a merger.
 
Abeam79
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:48 pm

727200 wrote:
Hey UA,

-Since your the only one not flying into JFK.
-Since you both fly 320s and 319s.
-Since you are short of DL and AA by 150 and 200 aircraft, and B6 has 189 planes.
-Since they have hubs where you don't and would compliment your existing ones, plus give you a Southern one you have been looking for.

Any questions who would be the major candidate for their purchase?

This!
The comments of AS 'Buying" B6 are so laughable, they are barely making ends meet with the VX buyout which was 1/4 of the price and size of b6, they have loaded a tonne of debt with that purchase there is no way they can 'acquire" b6 especially since B6 is really in terms of real mainline pilots and aircraft is quite larger than AS. Now if you mean "merger" then thats different, that I can maybe see after United., If anything B6 has more financial gusto to make a move for AS, not I think ultimately they would agree to merge.
WN..forget it, they will not break their bank at the price for lack of synergies that won't work and a B6 pilot group that want nothing to do with WN. They will just scoop up a bunch of gates at EWR is my guess as UA wold move a good deal but not all ops to JFK.
Lets stop saying that the DOJ won't allow it, are you even watching the news? Sprint/Tmobile, CVS/Aetna, Disney/21st century fox, AT&T/Time warner, they will keep rolling in according to analyst, a UAL/B6 buy wouldn't even be as close to these, so I doubt the DOJ wold even blink. https://www.businessinsider.com/wall-st ... 18-2017-12
DL/AA wouldn't win a reasonable proposition over UAL, and the argument that UA with their EWR base they wouldn't allow to also have a JFK base wold not fly since both DL/AA both have NYC bases hubs in JFK and LGA, why would UA not be allowed 2 NYC area airport bases as well?
HA would also work, but there would be little incetive outside of B6 getting A330's and 787's asia/pacific and HA getting a large domestic/Caribean/LATAM and future TATL network and more A320's. But I would see UA vastly outbid HA for a move for B6 IMO.
In the end I think the occams razor mentality is the true story here, which is that B6 I think is just moving slowly and carefully to not overextend themselves, Its as simple as that. They have a product that has insanely strong loyalty especially east coast, a newer hip product attracting new generations, and in core financially strong markets. Don't forget lots of upper management are UK guys from BA, they know how to slowly build up a fight over time if they have a good product.
 
khinstorff
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:26 pm

I doubt B6 wants to introduce the 737 to the fleet, but it’d be interesting to see them purchase Sun Country and make a mid-continent hub at MSP. I don’t think DL is unbeatable there.
 
nine4nine
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:15 pm

khinstorff wrote:
I doubt B6 wants to introduce the 737 to the fleet, but it’d be interesting to see them purchase Sun Country and make a mid-continent hub at MSP. I don’t think DL is unbeatable there.



I doubt B6 would ever consider some menial carrier with a small fleet of planes like SY or even a HUB in MSP. That’s pretty pointless for them so don’t see that happening.

They already have 2 northeast hubs that have performance issues due to WX. Why add a 3rd?

B6 will either continue to offer a niche product and continue a slow organic growth, or as a few pointed out above an eventual tie up with AS so that it can be a combined carrier with a strong east/west operation.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:24 pm

How about Air Canada?
 
Kikko19
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:53 pm

Hawaiian!
 
LAXtoATL
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:22 pm

Flighty wrote:
enilria wrote:
I also don't think AA/DL/UA would be allowed to buy them (I pray). WN maybe, but then the Europe argument is moot.


Agreed, Big3 are off the table. I don't think WN/AirTran merger was even legal, considering the way AirTran led pricing across most of the populated USA. It was a case study in mergers that materially harm consumers (mergers that are not supposed to be approved).

So, I would even argue WN cannot buy B6 because it would harm consumers (so it would be illegal). I suppose AS/B6 is the merger I am looking for. I don't think Spirit uses a compatible business model.


Flighty / Enilria:

Why do you think the Big3 are off the table? I doubt AA wants to acquire B6 (especially since they just finished integrated US), but for a regulatory perspective why do you think this would not pass?
(This is a genuine question and just want to hear a little more about it)
My understanding of anti-trust law is there is no such thing as too big, so the fact that AA is already the largest wouldn't be an issue. Certainly combining AA & B6 in NYC & BOS would not be a competitive issue. In fact, it would probably make the combination a stronger competitor to the two market leaders DL & UA. I could see an issue with MIA/FLL, but i would assume that could be easily addressed as AA would most likely agree to divest most if not all of FLL as they would certainly want to focus on MIA. If you have some thoughts / ideas I am not thinking of please share.
 
LAXtoATL
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:30 pm

Abeam79 wrote:


and the argument that UA with their EWR base they wouldn't allow to also have a JFK base wold not fly since both DL/AA both have NYC bases hubs in JFK and LGA, why would UA not be allowed 2 NYC area airport bases as well?
[/quote]

It's not the number of bases that are operated that is the issue. It is the market share in the area. Combining UA & B6 would be a dominate concentrate of market share in the NYC area. I think this would be problematic for regulators and I can't imagine UA wanting B6 for any other reason than their JFK portfolio.
 
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adambrau
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:52 pm

caljn wrote:
BOS is close to CT; especially Greenwich where a lot of investment bankers live or have business. Plus with the gates you can start Int'l flying to the major centers of Europe. Not make it a 'hub' but a focus city that commands high fares.
Now drop over to JFK and the corporate contracts that do not want to go to EWR. Plus, with all due respect to EWR, it is not NY.


Yes UA go spend a boatload of money to acquire an airline so you may partake in the privilege of ops at a mish-mosh of buildings in the
swamps of Queens. So glamourous.



Greenwich is in the SW corner of CT, close to JFK and LGA. Not BOS. Where do you come up with your geography?
Friendly Skies
 
VS11
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:28 am

This author does not seem very credible to me. Claiming that "But as a stretched single-aisle plane the A321 is a significantly less-than-ideal aircraft for serving such long-haul routes." when the same plane is deployed massively on transcon routes where AA even has a dedicated A321T fleet with special first class. BOS-LAX is only 654 miles shorter than BOS-LHR. I see zero difference in customer experience in ANY CLASS between flying a 321 transcon and TATL. It is true that TATL markets are more than just London but let's face it London is the most lucrative and popular.

The entire premise that jetBlue has no place to grow but the Big 3 do is laughable just like the idea that jetBlue has cost issues but the Big 3 don't. AA has long-term debt of $22 billion, UA has $13 billion - who is going to lend them another $6B to buy another airline? These airlines need to invest in themselves. AA is flying crappy B757s and B767s across major European markets like MAD and AMS. The last thing they need is buying another airline.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:41 am

tphuang wrote:
AS is in a lot of trouble.


Or so you keep saying. Wait for the full benefits of this acquisition to start paying off and I think you'll feel otherwise.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Buffalomatt1027
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:03 am

CaptPizzaPants wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Big changes are coming to JetBlue.

From someone that knows a bit more… I honestly don’t see a path forward as a standalone entity with this management team in place.

They are too cautious, risk-averse, and slow to respond and execute.

The net result is a fleet of planes and a LCC product better positioned for 2010 then 2020.

What is JetBlue today?

A small southwest?
A legacy wannabe?
An ULCC in the making?
The next Alaska?

This is the internal struggle. This is not a net fodder. It is very real.

They don’t know what they want to be.

They don’t know how to get to the place they want to be.

Their stock price reflects this as Wall Street is averse to uncertainty.

It is not too late for them to turn this around… But they have to do something already! Something, anything! And they have to do it in a timely manner.

The article rightly points out...The company could no longer sit in its current position


Jetblue also lost its "coolness" factor. I remember when jetblue first came out, the TVs / direct TV on each seat was revolutionary. Now, other air carriers have wireless internet and have an app where you can watch movies. They no longer have a unique product.



Eh I respectfully disagree. Compare jetBlue's entire inflight product to others and you'll see the difference. Others charge you extra for wifi (or give you limited free access - texting Wow!) while jetBlue's is free for everything. They also have a fairly good snack assortment and more legroom. Sure, others have free Tv but that's about it.


Originally when Jetblue came out years ago..... before inflight wifi. The direct Tv / in flight tvs in every seat was the thing that made them a "cool" airline to fly.

Right now, yes .... wifi snacks etc. are pretty good.
 
Moosefire
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Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:12 am

CaptPizzaPants wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Big changes are coming to JetBlue.

From someone that knows a bit more… I honestly don’t see a path forward as a standalone entity with this management team in place.

They are too cautious, risk-averse, and slow to respond and execute.

The net result is a fleet of planes and a LCC product better positioned for 2010 then 2020.

What is JetBlue today?

A small southwest?
A legacy wannabe?
An ULCC in the making?
The next Alaska?

This is the internal struggle. This is not a net fodder. It is very real.

They don’t know what they want to be.

They don’t know how to get to the place they want to be.

Their stock price reflects this as Wall Street is averse to uncertainty.

It is not too late for them to turn this around… But they have to do something already! Something, anything! And they have to do it in a timely manner.

The article rightly points out...The company could no longer sit in its current position


Jetblue also lost its "coolness" factor. I remember when jetblue first came out, the TVs / direct TV on each seat was revolutionary. Now, other air carriers have wireless internet and have an app where you can watch movies. They no longer have a unique product.



Eh I respectfully disagree. Compare jetBlue's entire inflight product to others and you'll see the difference. Others charge you extra for wifi (or give you limited free access - texting Wow!) while jetBlue's is free for everything. They also have a fairly good snack assortment and more legroom. Sure, others have free Tv but that's about it.


That’s part of the heart of the issue... all of those goodies come with a cost but not necessarily enough of a RASM premium to generate the EPS shareholders are looking for.
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
Moosefire
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:15 am

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
CaptPizzaPants wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

Jetblue also lost its "coolness" factor. I remember when jetblue first came out, the TVs / direct TV on each seat was revolutionary. Now, other air carriers have wireless internet and have an app where you can watch movies. They no longer have a unique product.



Eh I respectfully disagree. Compare jetBlue's entire inflight product to others and you'll see the difference. Others charge you extra for wifi (or give you limited free access - texting Wow!) while jetBlue's is free for everything. They also have a fairly good snack assortment and more legroom. Sure, others have free Tv but that's about it.


Originally when Jetblue came out years ago..... before inflight wifi. The direct Tv / in flight tvs in every seat was the thing that made them a "cool" airline to fly.

Right now, yes .... wifi snacks etc. are pretty good.


Ha, yup. Just one mans option here but I value the free WiFi far for than the TVs anymore. They’re neat when there’s something big going on that you want to follow but more of then than not I find myself struggling to find anything I wanna watch, especially during daytime flights. Pretty awesome for sports though
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
Moosefire
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:19 am

CobaltScar wrote:
EarlyLateORD wrote:
I know this is all a pipe dream, but you could make a case for a 4-way combination of SY/B6/AS and HA.

As one airline you would have widebodies for the Pacific and perhaps a few leftovers to begin Atlantic service.

You would have strong hubs at SEA-PDX-JFK-BOS-MSP-HNL-FLL.

All this combination lacks is a major SE hub.

Adam


One word: Austin


Delete
Last edited by Moosefire on Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
Moosefire
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:20 am

CobaltScar wrote:
EarlyLateORD wrote:
I know this is all a pipe dream, but you could make a case for a 4-way combination of SY/B6/AS and HA.

As one airline you would have widebodies for the Pacific and perhaps a few leftovers to begin Atlantic service.

You would have strong hubs at SEA-PDX-JFK-BOS-MSP-HNL-FLL.

All this combination lacks is a major SE hub.

Adam


One word: Austin


They couldn’t make a six city quasi-focus city work in Austin circa 2010... and Austin has only become more competitive since then
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
tphuang
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:20 am

EA CO AS wrote:
tphuang wrote:
AS is in a lot of trouble.


Or so you keep saying. Wait for the full benefits of this acquisition to start paying off and I think you'll feel otherwise.


Let's just say that I was a little peeved by the other guy. AS will be fine, but they are definitely experiencing pain in the short term. There is simply no reason to call another airline "sick duck" or "dorky flash in the pan" when it has great balance sheet.
 
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airportugal310
Posts: 3531
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

Re: Forbes' Dan Reed: "JetBlue is For Sale!"

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:23 am

tphuang wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
tphuang wrote:
AS is in a lot of trouble.


Or so you keep saying. Wait for the full benefits of this acquisition to start paying off and I think you'll feel otherwise.


Let's just say that I was a little peeved by the other guy. AS will be fine, but they are definitely experiencing pain in the short term. There is simply no reason to call another airline "sick duck" or "dorky flash in the pan" when it has great balance sheet.


I agree...there is a REALLY weird obsession with some people on here wanting to see airlines go bankrupt, or secretly hoping they do.
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”

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