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codyul
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:04 pm

EChid wrote:
I'm sure AC is the mystery Hi-Fly A380 operator for the summer in light of this incident ;)

I'm thinking not. But that would be epic haha.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4483
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:27 pm

CFM565A1 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:

    Any news on the condition of this plane? Hasn’t flown since that day...


    I was actually just thinking about that today. I’ve heard rumours that it’s being repaired, I’ve also heard that the damage was extreme and it’s being written off, which would be disasterous for AC, they need all the 777s they can for the summer.


    I'm no expert with write-offs and such but typically if the pressure bulkhead is toast then it's a write off... I guess we'll see...

    Erm...where is the information coming from making the assumption that C-FITW has been written off? I assume it's with HAECO who are making an engineering assesment?
    If the pressure bulkhead is damaged then, don't they just repair it? Boeing know how to do this, and there's a lot of material on how NOT to do it, ref JL123 and CI611 sping to mind.
     
    matt
    Posts: 740
    Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:56 pm

    So just to recap the latest changes...

    AC029/AC030 YVR-PEK/PEK-YVR going from 77W to 77L

    Just noticed the following equipment change as well:

    AC824/AC825 YYZ-AMS/AMS-YYZ going from 789 to 77W (400 pax version)

    Wondering now if AC876/AC877 YYZ-FRA/FRA-YYZ might go from 77L to 789.

    I've also noticed several minor adjustments to the flight times for S19 peak season.
    Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
     
    whywhyzee
    Posts: 1032
    Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:03 pm

    matt wrote:
    So just to recap the latest changes...

    AC029/AC030 YVR-PEK/PEK-YVR going from 77W to 77L

    Just noticed the following equipment change as well:

    AC824/AC825 YYZ-AMS/AMS-YYZ going from 789 to 77W (400 pax version)

    Wondering now if AC876/AC877 YYZ-FRA/FRA-YYZ might go from 77L to 789.

    I've also noticed several minor adjustments to the flight times for S19 peak season.


    I'm not sure about the yyz-fra, that flight rotates through YYC, so it'll depend on what frame makes the most sense for both. The challenge is they might not have enough 789 slack for both.
     
    matt
    Posts: 740
    Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:15 pm

    whywhyzee wrote:
    matt wrote:
    So just to recap the latest changes...

    AC029/AC030 YVR-PEK/PEK-YVR going from 77W to 77L

    Just noticed the following equipment change as well:

    AC824/AC825 YYZ-AMS/AMS-YYZ going from 789 to 77W (400 pax version)

    Wondering now if AC876/AC877 YYZ-FRA/FRA-YYZ might go from 77L to 789.

    I've also noticed several minor adjustments to the flight times for S19 peak season.


    I'm not sure about the yyz-fra, that flight rotates through YYC, so it'll depend on what frame makes the most sense for both. The challenge is they might not have enough 789 slack for both.


    I thought of the same thing... I think there are more changes to come. The one thing I can't wrap my head around is YVR-PEK going 77L. The flight times are the following:

    AC 029 YVR-PEK 1200-1405+
    AC 030 PEK-YVR 1605-1140

    One frame is not enough. But it can't be rotated with anything else at the moment through YVR (e.g. the flight time for YYZ-YVR-SYD-YVR-YYZ don't allow for this). So maybe more changes are to come.
    Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
     
    briguychau
    Posts: 246
    Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:48 pm

    whywhyzee wrote:
    matt wrote:
    So just to recap the latest changes...

    AC029/AC030 YVR-PEK/PEK-YVR going from 77W to 77L

    Just noticed the following equipment change as well:

    AC824/AC825 YYZ-AMS/AMS-YYZ going from 789 to 77W (400 pax version)

    Wondering now if AC876/AC877 YYZ-FRA/FRA-YYZ might go from 77L to 789.

    I've also noticed several minor adjustments to the flight times for S19 peak season.


    I'm not sure about the yyz-fra, that flight rotates through YYC, so it'll depend on what frame makes the most sense for both. The challenge is they might not have enough 789 slack for both.


    Theoretically, YYC-FRA-YYC could move from 77L to 789 (while YYZ-FRA-YYZ AC876/877 stays on 77L). It could rotate off of the LHR-YYC-LHR 789 flights.

    matt wrote:
    I thought of the same thing... I think there are more changes to come. The one thing I can't wrap my head around is YVR-PEK going 77L. The flight times are the following:

    AC 029 YVR-PEK 1200-1405+
    AC 030 PEK-YVR 1605-1140

    One frame is not enough. But it can't be rotated with anything else at the moment through YVR (e.g. the flight time for YYZ-YVR-SYD-YVR-YYZ don't allow for this). So maybe more changes are to come.


    It's true that one frame is not enough, but perhaps AC34 YVR-YYZ could be operated by something else (causing SYD-YVR-YYZ to have a change of gauge - passengers need to clear customs, so it's not like they can stay on the plane anyway) while the 77L waits to operate the YVR-PEK-YVR flights. Afterwards it could go back to YYZ on AC118. The theoretical rotations for the YVR-YYZ widebody changes would be AC34 77L->789, AC118 77W->77L, and AC112 789->77W. This would make the 77L schedules work out, but unless AC877's schedule is adjusted, it'll leave a single 77L operating AC876/877 every single day while the other five 77Ls operate YYZ-YVR-SYD-YVR-PEK-YVR-YYZ-HKG-YYZ on a 5-day rotation, therefore I don't like it as much.
     
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    JakubH
    Posts: 138
    Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:15 pm

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:10 pm

    How does Prague fit into AC's strategy? Will it go mainline soon?
    Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less.
    C. S. Lewis
     
    matt
    Posts: 740
    Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:24 pm

    briguychau wrote:
    whywhyzee wrote:
    matt wrote:
    So just to recap the latest changes...

    AC029/AC030 YVR-PEK/PEK-YVR going from 77W to 77L

    Just noticed the following equipment change as well:

    AC824/AC825 YYZ-AMS/AMS-YYZ going from 789 to 77W (400 pax version)

    Wondering now if AC876/AC877 YYZ-FRA/FRA-YYZ might go from 77L to 789.

    I've also noticed several minor adjustments to the flight times for S19 peak season.


    I'm not sure about the yyz-fra, that flight rotates through YYC, so it'll depend on what frame makes the most sense for both. The challenge is they might not have enough 789 slack for both.


    Theoretically, YYC-FRA-YYC could move from 77L to 789 (while YYZ-FRA-YYZ AC876/877 stays on 77L). It could rotate off of the LHR-YYC-LHR 789 flights.

    matt wrote:
    I thought of the same thing... I think there are more changes to come. The one thing I can't wrap my head around is YVR-PEK going 77L. The flight times are the following:

    AC 029 YVR-PEK 1200-1405+
    AC 030 PEK-YVR 1605-1140

    One frame is not enough. But it can't be rotated with anything else at the moment through YVR (e.g. the flight time for YYZ-YVR-SYD-YVR-YYZ don't allow for this). So maybe more changes are to come.


    It's true that one frame is not enough, but perhaps AC34 YVR-YYZ could be operated by something else (causing SYD-YVR-YYZ to have a change of gauge - passengers need to clear customs, so it's not like they can stay on the plane anyway) while the 77L waits to operate the YVR-PEK-YVR flights. Afterwards it could go back to YYZ on AC118. The theoretical rotations for the YVR-YYZ widebody changes would be AC34 77L->789, AC118 77W->77L, and AC112 789->77W. This would make the 77L schedules work out, but unless AC877's schedule is adjusted, it'll leave a single 77L operating AC876/877 every single day while the other five 77Ls operate YYZ-YVR-SYD-YVR-PEK-YVR-YYZ-HKG-YYZ on a 5-day rotation, therefore I don't like it as much.


    Interesting scenario, but that would throw the 789 and 77W rotations out of whack, no? I've been trying to imagine rotations for the 77L as well, but I'm just waiting to see what changes may be reflected in the schedule soon.
    Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
     
    ac33e
    Posts: 83
    Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:14 pm

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:27 pm

    JakubH wrote:
    How does Prague fit into AC's strategy? Will it go mainline soon?



    PRG seems like it will continue on the same track of being summer seasonal 6/7 weekly. There is simply not enough winter demand or business ties between Czech Republic and North America to make this flight viable. Given that LH is just around the corner, AC's strategy of feeding the LHG hubs year-round (such as YYZ-VIE) is much more viable.

    Think of PRG in conjunction with BUD & WAW, which were all launched more or less around the same time. Just enough to compete with LO without bothering them too much in their expansion plans, but no way in the Canadian Great White North of a Winter.
     
    whywhyzee
    Posts: 1032
    Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:02 pm

    Now that YVR-BNE/MEL are pretty well established, it could be possible that AC33/34 goes entirely 789, spreads the wealth a little more around their Australian services. The question still remains as to what is going to happen, their 77L and 789 fleets seem to be absolutely maxed out.
     
    chrisa330
    Posts: 583
    Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 10:24 am

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:47 pm

    whywhyzee wrote:
    Now that YVR-BNE/MEL are pretty well established, it could be possible that AC33/34 goes entirely 789, spreads the wealth a little more around their Australian services. The question still remains as to what is going to happen, their 77L and 789 fleets seem to be absolutely maxed out.


    Capacity between the 789 and 77L are largely the same with the 77L having a larger J cabin. Moving to the 789 doesn’t give any extra room in the bilateral to operate MEL more frequently.
     
    YYZORD
    Posts: 324
    Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:23 am

    I get why YVR-SYD is daily from AC but YVR-BNE is a much smaller market compared to YVR-MEL. If YVR-BNE is daily already too, shouldn't YVR-MEL already become daily instead of 4X weekly? Is it that Canada-Australia bilateral is filled from the Canadian carrier side or other issues?

    chrisa330 wrote:
    whywhyzee wrote:
    Now that YVR-BNE/MEL are pretty well established, it could be possible that AC33/34 goes entirely 789, spreads the wealth a little more around their Australian services. The question still remains as to what is going to happen, their 77L and 789 fleets seem to be absolutely maxed out.


    Capacity between the 789 and 77L are largely the same with the 77L having a larger J cabin. Moving to the 789 doesn’t give any extra room in the bilateral to operate MEL more frequently.
     
    briguychau
    Posts: 246
    Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:21 am

    chrisa330 wrote:
    Moving to the 789 doesn’t give any extra room in the bilateral to operate MEL more frequently.


    YYZORD wrote:
    Is it that Canada-Australia bilateral is filled from the Canadian carrier side or other issues?


    The bilateral is not the limiting factor.

    The bilateral is currently at 9000 seats per week for Brisbane/Melbourne/Perth/Sydney, per country. Air Canada has a daily 77L for SYD (7x 300 = 2100 seats), a daily 788 for BNE (7x 255 = 1785 seats), and up to 4x weekly 789 for MEL (4x 298 = 1192). This adds up to only 5077 seats per direction per week, way below the 9000 limit.
     
    FabienA380
    Posts: 18
    Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:46 pm

    Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

    Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:30 am

    CFM565A1 wrote:
      whywhyzee wrote:
      Mods, I recommend changing this to an AC changes thread, not just summer. I feel like it would be better served that way.

      On that note, C-FITW had a tailstrike at HKG as AC15 from YYZ. Will be interesting to see how they manage having a 77W down for a little while.


      Any news on the condition of this plane? Hasn’t flown since that day...


      Right now on HKG-YYZ.

      https://www.flightradar24.com/ACA2328/
       
      inAjet
      Posts: 5
      Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:37 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:48 am

      Seems C-FITW is back in service. Operated AC125/10 after being ferried to YYZ from HKG, and is about to depart as AC126/10.

      Phew, can finally extinguish that scheduling helmet fire!!
       
      runway23
      Posts: 2273
      Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:02 am

      inAjet wrote:
      Seems C-FITW is back in service. Operated AC125/10 after being ferried to YYZ from HKG, and is about to depart as AC126/10.

      Phew, can finally extinguish that scheduling helmet fire!!


      Replaced by C-GHKR that is tech since yesterday at GVA. Took off and returned after hydraulic problems and the tower noticing smoke coming out of both engines.
       
      whywhyzee
      Posts: 1032
      Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:48 am

      With 733 back, and AMS moving to 77W, seems all of the 400 seat 77Ws are fully allocated to YYZ routes, there is a chance they don't touch any other base barring any changes.
       
      runway23
      Posts: 2273
      Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:44 pm

      whywhyzee wrote:
      With 733 back, and AMS moving to 77W, seems all of the 400 seat 77Ws are fully allocated to YYZ routes, there is a chance they don't touch any other base barring any changes.


      They are still scheduled on YUL-CDG this summer.
       
      alexdelzotto1
      Posts: 39
      Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:15 pm

      runway23 wrote:
      whywhyzee wrote:
      With 733 back, and AMS moving to 77W, seems all of the 400 seat 77Ws are fully allocated to YYZ routes, there is a chance they don't touch any other base barring any changes.


      They are still scheduled on YUL-CDG this summer.


      Both YUL-CDG and YUL-FCO are operated by the 450 seat 77W.
       
      westaust
      Posts: 29
      Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:05 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:49 pm

      matt wrote:

      Wondering now if AC876/AC877 YYZ-FRA/FRA-YYZ might go from 77L to 789.

      I've also noticed several minor adjustments to the flight times for S19 peak season.


      That would seem unlikely, the loss of 10 business class seats (25%) on such a route is big for this flight.
       
      User avatar
      CFM565A1
      Posts: 381
      Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:04 pm

      skipness1E wrote:
      CFM565A1 wrote:
      whywhyzee wrote:

      I was actually just thinking about that today. I’ve heard rumours that it’s being repaired, I’ve also heard that the damage was extreme and it’s being written off, which would be disasterous for AC, they need all the 777s they can for the summer.


      I'm no expert with write-offs and such but typically if the pressure bulkhead is toast then it's a write off... I guess we'll see...

      Erm...where is the information coming from making the assumption that C-FITW has been written off? I assume it's with HAECO who are making an engineering assesment?
      If the pressure bulkhead is damaged then, don't they just repair it? Boeing know how to do this, and there's a lot of material on how NOT to do it, ref JL123 and CI611 sping to mind.


      First of all I direct you to the part where I say I’m no expert in write offs... that means I’m no expert :roll:

      Really it all depends on the cost of repairs vs residual value. While the plane in question is now flying, if it were appraised to be worth more part it out, they’d cut a cheque for it. That’s what I’ve been told about how the insurance works.
      Flown: C172-M/N/P/R/S , P2006T, PA-34-200T, DH8A/C Been on: B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
       
      whywhyzee
      Posts: 1032
      Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:36 pm

      westaust wrote:
      matt wrote:

      Wondering now if AC876/AC877 YYZ-FRA/FRA-YYZ might go from 77L to 789.

      I've also noticed several minor adjustments to the flight times for S19 peak season.


      That would seem unlikely, the loss of 10 business class seats (25%) on such a route is big for this flight.


      While you make a valid point, remember AC still has a daily 40J 77W and LH has a daily 744. The route could and probably should stay 77L for the second daily, they could well cut 10 J per day and just sell less discounted fares/route them through other places for connecting purposes.

      The one route that could really benefit from the 77L is ZRH, J last year was always full in the summer, and Y was always wide open, typical load was full J and PY and about almost 100 Y open, the 77L would be perfect, or even better, Swiss. The Lx 77W would have done a good job, their A333s are likely a little small. The extra J would likely have sold reasonably well on people moving up from Py into a lower fare class J, and F could have sold to those who would pay/upgrade top status elites from J.
       
      Dominion301
      Posts: 2210
      Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:47 am

      whywhyzee wrote:
      With 733 back, and AMS moving to 77W, seems all of the 400 seat 77Ws are fully allocated to YYZ routes, there is a chance they don't touch any other base barring any changes.


      Don’t the 400 seat 77Ws normally fly 1 or 2 YYZ-YVR rotations during the summer?
       
      codyul
      Posts: 64
      Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:53 am

      Anyone else thinking that they'll be getting more 330ceos off the used market? Or could they be waiting for ye2018 financials to announce taking Dreamliner options.
      YUL PNC :weightlifter:
       
      whywhyzee
      Posts: 1032
      Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:17 am

      codyul wrote:
      Anyone else thinking that they'll be getting more 330ceos off the used market? Or could they be waiting for ye2018 financials to announce taking Dreamliner options.


      I would say the former is very likely. Used A333s are readily available and will continue to be in 2019 in light of WOW dumping theirs, and other carriers like SQ actively retiring them. The timing is excellent to pick up used widebodies right now, which is coincidentally exactly what AC needs. Coupled with relatively low fuel prices that aren’t likely to move to such a degree that it renders current generation aircraft uneconomical, it makes a ton of sense to save the capital and buy used.

      The 787 options are probably best to be saved, they are like an investment in their future fleet, with long term potential. I think it makes sense to sit on them and exercise them in the future for 787-10s for delivery in 3-4 years. The A333s will help them grow and expand, the 787-10s can represent the next round of growth and expansion as the older A333s begin to age out or are moved to Rouge. The biggest goal right now IMO should be securing a couple more A333s for peak demand times, and growing non-daily winter routes to daily, such as DUB/MAD/ZRH/CPH/MXP/AMS. If they can steadily build these markets, adding one additional weekly frequency per year let’s say, by the time they can take 787-10s, they will all be daily. Slow market development to build the foundation for larger aircraft as their guns grow more and more congested. Look at the US3 as am example of gradual building of markets and sustained year round services.

      Aggregate demand is seasonal, but through marketing, connections, and local promotions, airlines can effectively manufacture demand to help sustain greater frequency, which ultimately helps build higher yielding traffic long term.
       
      codyul
      Posts: 64
      Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:20 am

      That sounds like a likely plan. I just don't know until when they can keep those 787 options, but I'm sure they have a great relationship with Boeing, and can manoeuvre it.
      I'm hoping that with ye2018 results they announce picking up more used 330s. That would be reassuring for not only growth but just to have some safety net for summer season.
      YUL PNC :weightlifter:
       
      whywhyzee
      Posts: 1032
      Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:02 pm

      codyul wrote:
      That sounds like a likely plan. I just don't know until when they can keep those 787 options, but I'm sure they have a great relationship with Boeing, and can manoeuvre it.
      I'm hoping that with ye2018 results they announce picking up more used 330s. That would be reassuring for not only growth but just to have some safety net for summer season.


      They are keeping more than 2 767 this summer, and get 2 more A333s next fall. The 767s retire next winter, unless they want to cut flying for S20, they will get more of something. I think it's a very likely scenario. Helped by the fact that their A333s are absolutely stunning in the new livery, and the new cabins will bring them up to standard with the rest of the fleet. (Ok, maybe the first part was for me)
       
      sixtyseven
      Posts: 807
      Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:23 pm

      whywhyzee wrote:
      codyul wrote:
      Anyone else thinking that they'll be getting more 330ceos off the used market? Or could they be waiting for ye2018 financials to announce taking Dreamliner options.


      I would say the former is very likely. Used A333s are readily available and will continue to be in 2019 in light of WOW dumping theirs, and other carriers like SQ actively retiring them. The timing is excellent to pick up used widebodies right now, which is coincidentally exactly what AC needs. Coupled with relatively low fuel prices that aren’t likely to move to such a degree that it renders current generation aircraft uneconomical, it makes a ton of sense to save the capital and buy used.

      The 787 options are probably best to be saved, they are like an investment in their future fleet, with long term potential. I think it makes sense to sit on them and exercise them in the future for 787-10s for delivery in 3-4 years. The A333s will help them grow and expand, the 787-10s can represent the next round of growth and expansion as the older A333s begin to age out or are moved to Rouge. The biggest goal right now IMO should be securing a couple more A333s for peak demand times, and growing non-daily winter routes to daily, such as DUB/MAD/ZRH/CPH/MXP/AMS. If they can steadily build these markets, adding one additional weekly frequency per year let’s say, by the time they can take 787-10s, they will all be daily. Slow market development to build the foundation for larger aircraft as their guns grow more and more congested. Look at the US3 as am example of gradual building of markets and sustained year round services.

      Aggregate demand is seasonal, but through marketing, connections, and local promotions, airlines can effectively manufacture demand to help sustain greater frequency, which ultimately helps build higher yielding traffic long term.


      Pretty solid theory. Only thing is the 330 won’t replace the 767 at Rouge. It’s too big. I can say there is no replacement for the 767, certainly nothing bigger. Hence them keeping it another 10 years. I wonder what may happen to Rouge then. Spin it off? Who knows.

      As for expansion, I don’t think management is as aggressive with their plans as those on this site may think they are. I think they are trying to increase weekly frequencies in certain places versus opening new markets and will do so gingerly with the seasonality of the Canadian market. They have tapped into connecting traffic from the US and how much more they can siphon remains to be seen.

      Personally I think AC is about to enter a very modest stage. Tinkering here and there but I don’t see a bunch of orders at all. They have set the airline up for a potential economic downturn and are more concerned with weathering that storm and perhaps keeping what they have going strong vice growing for the sake of growing. Of course they will be keen observers of the Team Teal expansion and do what they can to squash it in place as any competitor would want to do.
      Stand-by for new ATIS message......
       
      User avatar
      longhauler
      Posts: 6309
      Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:33 pm

      sixtyseven wrote:
      Personally I think AC is about to enter a very modest stage. Tinkering here and there but I don’t see a bunch of orders at all. They have set the airline up for a potential economic downturn and are more concerned with weathering that storm and perhaps keeping what they have going strong vice growing for the sake of growing. Of course they will be keen observers of the Team Teal expansion and do what they can to squash it in place as any competitor would want to do.

      That has always been my opinion. As soon as new 787s were deferred in favour of used A330s, I figured that Air Canada was preparing for the next economic low cycle. I have been acquainted with this business far too long to ignore which has always happened ... namely following an economic rise, the nadir always followed.

      In fact, looking at most airlines, they seem to be doing the same thing. Heck, even the GTAA is doing the same thing and slowing expansion of YYZ.

      It is funny you mention Team Teal. They appear to be the only airline doing the exact opposite ... just like YYC! Who knows, maybe Alberta fortunes may return to past highs and both WS and YYC will be the ones laughing.
      Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
       
      codyul
      Posts: 64
      Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:00 pm

      sixtyseven wrote:
      whywhyzee wrote:
      codyul wrote:
      Anyone else thinking that they'll be getting more 330ceos off the used market? Or could they be waiting for ye2018 financials to announce taking Dreamliner options.


      I would say the former is very likely. Used A333s are readily available and will continue to be in 2019 in light of WOW dumping theirs, and other carriers like SQ actively retiring them. The timing is excellent to pick up used widebodies right now, which is coincidentally exactly what AC needs. Coupled with relatively low fuel prices that aren’t likely to move to such a degree that it renders current generation aircraft uneconomical, it makes a ton of sense to save the capital and buy used.

      The 787 options are probably best to be saved, they are like an investment in their future fleet, with long term potential. I think it makes sense to sit on them and exercise them in the future for 787-10s for delivery in 3-4 years. The A333s will help them grow and expand, the 787-10s can represent the next round of growth and expansion as the older A333s begin to age out or are moved to Rouge. The biggest goal right now IMO should be securing a couple more A333s for peak demand times, and growing non-daily winter routes to daily, such as DUB/MAD/ZRH/CPH/MXP/AMS. If they can steadily build these markets, adding one additional weekly frequency per year let’s say, by the time they can take 787-10s, they will all be daily. Slow market development to build the foundation for larger aircraft as their guns grow more and more congested. Look at the US3 as am example of gradual building of markets and sustained year round services.

      Aggregate demand is seasonal, but through marketing, connections, and local promotions, airlines can effectively manufacture demand to help sustain greater frequency, which ultimately helps build higher yielding traffic long term.


      Pretty solid theory. Only thing is the 330 won’t replace the 767 at Rouge. It’s too big. I can say there is no replacement for the 767, certainly nothing bigger. Hence them keeping it another 10 years. I wonder what may happen to Rouge then. Spin it off? Who knows.

      As for expansion, I don’t think management is as aggressive with their plans as those on this site may think they are. I think they are trying to increase weekly frequencies in certain places versus opening new markets and will do so gingerly with the seasonality of the Canadian market. They have tapped into connecting traffic from the US and how much more they can siphon remains to be seen.

      Personally I think AC is about to enter a very modest stage. Tinkering here and there but I don’t see a bunch of orders at all. They have set the airline up for a potential economic downturn and are more concerned with weathering that storm and perhaps keeping what they have going strong vice growing for the sake of growing. Of course they will be keen observers of the Team Teal expansion and do what they can to squash it in place as any competitor would want to do.


      I don't disagree with you here. No doubt Mr Smith was the driving force and visionary for the expansion. CR is a numbers guy and more fiscally conservative from what I can see. Not a bad thing, but I do believe that they will need to place an order for at least a few WB aircraft. They cannot operate at +0, well they can but I would not find that responsable. But I guess I'm not in their shoes.

      All this to say, I'm definitely hoping for an order for 10 more 330ceo and then slight expansion or more daily frequency on successful routes like MEL BNE, maybe expand to Vietnam. Use the 330s for tatl. But those are just my wishful thoughts.
      YUL PNC :weightlifter:
       
      whywhyzee
      Posts: 1032
      Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:24 pm

      They are investing pretty heavily in the narrow body guage right now, so I think that. Continue to be the driver for expansion, long haul wise, like I said before, drip feed of a few more A333s each year is by far the most sensible option.

      As Longhaul said, YYZ expansion has been gradual, however, the new pier is now underway, there is certainly some optimism going forward. I would say they are both in a cautiously optimistic place.
       
      smallmj
      Posts: 148
      Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:39 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:34 pm

      codyul wrote:
      All this to say, I'm definitely hoping for an order for 10 more 330ceo and then slight expansion or more daily frequency on successful routes like MEL BNE, maybe expand to Vietnam. Use the 330s for tatl. But those are just my wishful thoughts.


      10 A330's? That's a lot more than I was thinking.

      How's the market for used A330-200s? I wonder if AC might pick up a few of these to replace some of the 767 capacity. They are still a fair bit bigger than the 767-300, but nothing else on the used market really fits, and there would be enough commonality with the A330-300 to help reduce costs. The 787-8 is the closest in capacity, but those things are expensive and may be better used on longer range flights.
       
      YYZLGA
      Posts: 355
      Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:40 pm

      It makes perfect sense that they're hunkering down for the recession that seems likely to come in the next little while. They can easily park the mainline 767s and even some of the 330s and some of the Rouge 767s if people stop going on vacations for a while. We've been in an economic expansion for a long time now. When you read their investor presentations, though, one thing they always highlight is how tiny a proportion of the US-to-overseas market they actually have. That means their growth opportunity is near-limitless in that area. Of course it's also extremely competitive. Their future growth is going to depend on how much market share they can wrest away from the US3 and overseas airlines.

      In terms of replacing 767s, I don't think AC minds replacing them with aircraft that don't have exactly the same capacity. I think for the thinner routes, we'll continue to see them taken over by 7M8s, ideally with frequency improvements. On the busier routes, a 330 is a reasonable upgauge. They're a bit better on fuel, so the trip cost isn't that much higher.
      Last edited by YYZLGA on Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
       
      codyul
      Posts: 64
      Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:41 pm

      smallmj wrote:
      10 A330's? That's a lot more than I was thinking.

      How's the market for used A330-200s? I wonder if AC might pick up a few of these to replace some of the 767 capacity. They are still a fair bit bigger than the 767-300, but nothing else on the used market really fits, and there would be enough commonality with the A330-300 to help reduce costs. The 787-8 is the closest in capacity, but those things are expensive and may be better used on longer range flights.

      Yeah it's likely too optimistic on my part. But then again, getting 4 330s for 6 out to pasture 767s may be equal in seat count but not in route coverage. And adding Algiers and mainline Dublin from yvr as well as upguaging yul (both currently summer only routes). And there are constant, persistent rumors of Athens returning to mainline service (all rumors, but when you hear them over and over from different departments..)
      So I'm hopeful for an announcement.
      YUL PNC :weightlifter:
       
      codyul
      Posts: 64
      Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:44 pm

      YYZLGA wrote:
      It makes perfect sense that they're hunkering down for the recession that seems likely to come in the next little while. They can easily park the mainline 767s and even some of the 330s and some of the Rouge 767s if people stop going on vacations for a while. We've been in an economic expansion for a long time now. When you read their investor presentations, though, one thing they always highlight is how tiny a proportion of the US-to-overseas market they actually have. That means their growth opportunity is near-limitless in that area. Of course it's also extremely competitive. Their future growth is going to depend on how much market share they can wrest away from the US3 and overseas airlines.

      In terms of replacing 767s, I don't think AC minds replacing them with aircraft that don't have exactly the same capacity. I think for the thinner routes, we'll continue to see them taken over by 7M8s, ideally with frequency improvements. On the busier routes, a 330 is a reasonable upgauge. They're a bit better on fuel, so the trip cost isn't that much higher.

      Definitely poaching US to overseas is the key to intl expansion. 7m8 and 220-300 will help a lot.
      YUL PNC :weightlifter:
       
      whywhyzee
      Posts: 1032
      Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:19 pm

      http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthr ... 6&page=373

      Huge increases for summer including some long haul.

      The 77L problem has been solved, YYZ-FRA and YYC-FRA revert to 789 coming from LA which goes to 77L.
       
      sixtyseven
      Posts: 807
      Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:10 pm

      codyul wrote:
      sixtyseven wrote:
      whywhyzee wrote:

      I would say the former is very likely. Used A333s are readily available and will continue to be in 2019 in light of WOW dumping theirs, and other carriers like SQ actively retiring them. The timing is excellent to pick up used widebodies right now, which is coincidentally exactly what AC needs. Coupled with relatively low fuel prices that aren’t likely to move to such a degree that it renders current generation aircraft uneconomical, it makes a ton of sense to save the capital and buy used.

      The 787 options are probably best to be saved, they are like an investment in their future fleet, with long term potential. I think it makes sense to sit on them and exercise them in the future for 787-10s for delivery in 3-4 years. The A333s will help them grow and expand, the 787-10s can represent the next round of growth and expansion as the older A333s begin to age out or are moved to Rouge. The biggest goal right now IMO should be securing a couple more A333s for peak demand times, and growing non-daily winter routes to daily, such as DUB/MAD/ZRH/CPH/MXP/AMS. If they can steadily build these markets, adding one additional weekly frequency per year let’s say, by the time they can take 787-10s, they will all be daily. Slow market development to build the foundation for larger aircraft as their guns grow more and more congested. Look at the US3 as am example of gradual building of markets and sustained year round services.

      Aggregate demand is seasonal, but through marketing, connections, and local promotions, airlines can effectively manufacture demand to help sustain greater frequency, which ultimately helps build higher yielding traffic long term.


      Pretty solid theory. Only thing is the 330 won’t replace the 767 at Rouge. It’s too big. I can say there is no replacement for the 767, certainly nothing bigger. Hence them keeping it another 10 years. I wonder what may happen to Rouge then. Spin it off? Who knows.

      As for expansion, I don’t think management is as aggressive with their plans as those on this site may think they are. I think they are trying to increase weekly frequencies in certain places versus opening new markets and will do so gingerly with the seasonality of the Canadian market. They have tapped into connecting traffic from the US and how much more they can siphon remains to be seen.

      Personally I think AC is about to enter a very modest stage. Tinkering here and there but I don’t see a bunch of orders at all. They have set the airline up for a potential economic downturn and are more concerned with weathering that storm and perhaps keeping what they have going strong vice growing for the sake of growing. Of course they will be keen observers of the Team Teal expansion and do what they can to squash it in place as any competitor would want to do.


      I don't disagree with you here. No doubt Mr Smith was the driving force and visionary for the expansion. CR is a numbers guy and more fiscally conservative from what I can see. Not a bad thing, but I do believe that they will need to place an order for at least a few WB aircraft. They cannot operate at +0, well they can but I would not find that responsable. But I guess I'm not in their shoes.

      All this to say, I'm definitely hoping for an order for 10 more 330ceo and then slight expansion or more daily frequency on successful routes like MEL BNE, maybe expand to Vietnam. Use the 330s for tatl. But those are just my wishful thoughts.


      Hey. I sure hope you’re right! 10 more wide bodies would please me to no end!!

      Ben Smith was extremely aggressive and had the fortune and timing of being on solid enough economic footing to execute his plan. A plan that was nothing less than stunning, both in scope and speed. I’d love to see more widebody growth (responsibly), but as another user suggests the narrow body programs will be running at full tilt with the balance of MAXs coming and the EIS of the A220.

      I’m really interested in seeing where they deploy the 220 beyond the EMJ and 319 structure for which it is replacing.
      Stand-by for new ATIS message......
       
      whywhyzee
      Posts: 1032
      Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:53 pm

      sixtyseven wrote:
      codyul wrote:
      sixtyseven wrote:

      Pretty solid theory. Only thing is the 330 won’t replace the 767 at Rouge. It’s too big. I can say there is no replacement for the 767, certainly nothing bigger. Hence them keeping it another 10 years. I wonder what may happen to Rouge then. Spin it off? Who knows.

      As for expansion, I don’t think management is as aggressive with their plans as those on this site may think they are. I think they are trying to increase weekly frequencies in certain places versus opening new markets and will do so gingerly with the seasonality of the Canadian market. They have tapped into connecting traffic from the US and how much more they can siphon remains to be seen.

      Personally I think AC is about to enter a very modest stage. Tinkering here and there but I don’t see a bunch of orders at all. They have set the airline up for a potential economic downturn and are more concerned with weathering that storm and perhaps keeping what they have going strong vice growing for the sake of growing. Of course they will be keen observers of the Team Teal expansion and do what they can to squash it in place as any competitor would want to do.


      I don't disagree with you here. No doubt Mr Smith was the driving force and visionary for the expansion. CR is a numbers guy and more fiscally conservative from what I can see. Not a bad thing, but I do believe that they will need to place an order for at least a few WB aircraft. They cannot operate at +0, well they can but I would not find that responsable. But I guess I'm not in their shoes.

      All this to say, I'm definitely hoping for an order for 10 more 330ceo and then slight expansion or more daily frequency on successful routes like MEL BNE, maybe expand to Vietnam. Use the 330s for tatl. But those are just my wishful thoughts.


      Hey. I sure hope you’re right! 10 more wide bodies would please me to no end!!

      Ben Smith was extremely aggressive and had the fortune and timing of being on solid enough economic footing to execute his plan. A plan that was nothing less than stunning, both in scope and speed. I’d love to see more widebody growth (responsibly), but as another user suggests the narrow body programs will be running at full tilt with the balance of MAXs coming and the EIS of the A220.

      I’m really interested in seeing where they deploy the 220 beyond the EMJ and 319 structure for which it is replacing.


      It’s easy to forget the narrowbody expansion, it isn’t as sexy as long haul, but it’s important, and has a huge impact on the company bottom lime and net system capacity. This year, AC is adding 18 737max, 2 A320, 4 A321 and 1 cs300, with only a few retirements planned, their capacity is increasing significantly, just not as visibly.
       
      sixtyseven
      Posts: 807
      Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:03 pm

      whywhyzee wrote:
      sixtyseven wrote:
      codyul wrote:

      I don't disagree with you here. No doubt Mr Smith was the driving force and visionary for the expansion. CR is a numbers guy and more fiscally conservative from what I can see. Not a bad thing, but I do believe that they will need to place an order for at least a few WB aircraft. They cannot operate at +0, well they can but I would not find that responsable. But I guess I'm not in their shoes.

      All this to say, I'm definitely hoping for an order for 10 more 330ceo and then slight expansion or more daily frequency on successful routes like MEL BNE, maybe expand to Vietnam. Use the 330s for tatl. But those are just my wishful thoughts.


      Hey. I sure hope you’re right! 10 more wide bodies would please me to no end!!

      Ben Smith was extremely aggressive and had the fortune and timing of being on solid enough economic footing to execute his plan. A plan that was nothing less than stunning, both in scope and speed. I’d love to see more widebody growth (responsibly), but as another user suggests the narrow body programs will be running at full tilt with the balance of MAXs coming and the EIS of the A220.

      I’m really interested in seeing where they deploy the 220 beyond the EMJ and 319 structure for which it is replacing.


      It’s easy to forget the narrowbody expansion, it isn’t as sexy as long haul, but it’s important, and has a huge impact on the company bottom lime and net system capacity. This year, AC is adding 18 737max, 2 A320, 4 A321 and 1 cs300, with only a few retirements planned, their capacity is increasing significantly, just not as visibly.


      You’re completely right. Tons of narrow bodies coming in is huge. Just not as glamorous as the biggies.
      Stand-by for new ATIS message......
       
      codyul
      Posts: 64
      Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:44 pm

      sixtyseven wrote:
      whywhyzee wrote:
      sixtyseven wrote:

      Hey. I sure hope you’re right! 10 more wide bodies would please me to no end!!

      Ben Smith was extremely aggressive and had the fortune and timing of being on solid enough economic footing to execute his plan. A plan that was nothing less than stunning, both in scope and speed. I’d love to see more widebody growth (responsibly), but as another user suggests the narrow body programs will be running at full tilt with the balance of MAXs coming and the EIS of the A220.

      I’m really interested in seeing where they deploy the 220 beyond the EMJ and 319 structure for which it is replacing.


      It’s easy to forget the narrowbody expansion, it isn’t as sexy as long haul, but it’s important, and has a huge impact on the company bottom lime and net system capacity. This year, AC is adding 18 737max, 2 A320, 4 A321 and 1 cs300, with only a few retirements planned, their capacity is increasing significantly, just not as visibly.


      You’re completely right. Tons of narrow bodies coming in is huge. Just not as glamorous as the biggies.

      It certainly is huge. But they are gonna be used to feed what flights? Getting higher traffic from the US to fill the current intl network sure. But I'm thinking they need to add routes and seek intl opportunities.
      YUL PNC :weightlifter:
       
      whywhyzee
      Posts: 1032
      Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 pm

      codyul wrote:
      sixtyseven wrote:
      whywhyzee wrote:

      It’s easy to forget the narrowbody expansion, it isn’t as sexy as long haul, but it’s important, and has a huge impact on the company bottom lime and net system capacity. This year, AC is adding 18 737max, 2 A320, 4 A321 and 1 cs300, with only a few retirements planned, their capacity is increasing significantly, just not as visibly.


      You’re completely right. Tons of narrow bodies coming in is huge. Just not as glamorous as the biggies.

      It certainly is huge. But they are gonna be used to feed what flights? Getting higher traffic from the US to fill the current intl network sure. But I'm thinking they need to add routes and seek intl opportunities.


      They currently hold about 1% of USA international traffic, so USA- country x (not Canada). They want to double that, which would be huge, especially considering their connection percentages are generally pretty low. YYZ was sitting at 29% connection traffic through Q3.

      They are at Routes America right now in YWB and gave a speech, they said they anticipate gradually slowing their growth and trying to increase utilization and develop the routes they have, which basically confirms the theories we have been discussing on here. Long story short, gradual expansion as it is warranted to anchor their ops and solidify their key routes.
       
      1989worstyear
      Posts: 615
      Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:50 pm

      YYZLGA wrote:
      It makes perfect sense that they're hunkering down for the recession that seems likely to come in the next little while. They can easily park the mainline 767s and even some of the 330s and some of the Rouge 767s if people stop going on vacations for a while. We've been in an economic expansion for a long time now. When you read their investor presentations, though, one thing they always highlight is how tiny a proportion of the US-to-overseas market they actually have. That means their growth opportunity is near-limitless in that area. Of course it's also extremely competitive. Their future growth is going to depend on how much market share they can wrest away from the US3 and overseas airlines.

      In terms of replacing 767s, I don't think AC minds replacing them with aircraft that don't have exactly the same capacity. I think for the thinner routes, we'll continue to see them taken over by 7M8s, ideally with frequency improvements. On the busier routes, a 330 is a reasonable upgauge. They're a bit better on fuel, so the trip cost isn't that much higher.


      That's fuel per pax regarding the A330, I'm assuming :scratchchin:
      Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
       
      sixtyseven
      Posts: 807
      Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:15 pm

      longhauler wrote:
      sixtyseven wrote:
      Personally I think AC is about to enter a very modest stage. Tinkering here and there but I don’t see a bunch of orders at all. They have set the airline up for a potential economic downturn and are more concerned with weathering that storm and perhaps keeping what they have going strong vice growing for the sake of growing. Of course they will be keen observers of the Team Teal expansion and do what they can to squash it in place as any competitor would want to do.

      That has always been my opinion. As soon as new 787s were deferred in favour of used A330s, I figured that Air Canada was preparing for the next economic low cycle. I have been acquainted with this business far too long to ignore which has always happened ... namely following an economic rise, the nadir always followed.

      In fact, looking at most airlines, they seem to be doing the same thing. Heck, even the GTAA is doing the same thing and slowing expansion of YYZ.

      It is funny you mention Team Teal. They appear to be the only airline doing the exact opposite ... just like YYC! Who knows, maybe Alberta fortunes may return to past highs and both WS and YYC will be the ones laughing.


      As excited as I have been about the tremendous growth; I was pleased to see the deferral of 87s. To me it showed that cost control was being utilized at the highest level. They have done a great job, but to me prudence at the top seemed to show me as much of their leadership as the aggressiveness did.

      Many on this site, not in this particular thread, would have an airline grabbing new metal as if were a sample at Costco.

      Then they’d just as likely lambaste said company for financial irresponsibility the second those planes start getting parked.

      Money means little if it’s not yours you’re talking about.
      Stand-by for new ATIS message......
       
      YYZLGA
      Posts: 355
      Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:56 pm

      1989worstyear wrote:
      YYZLGA wrote:
      It makes perfect sense that they're hunkering down for the recession that seems likely to come in the next little while. They can easily park the mainline 767s and even some of the 330s and some of the Rouge 767s if people stop going on vacations for a while. We've been in an economic expansion for a long time now. When you read their investor presentations, though, one thing they always highlight is how tiny a proportion of the US-to-overseas market they actually have. That means their growth opportunity is near-limitless in that area. Of course it's also extremely competitive. Their future growth is going to depend on how much market share they can wrest away from the US3 and overseas airlines.

      In terms of replacing 767s, I don't think AC minds replacing them with aircraft that don't have exactly the same capacity. I think for the thinner routes, we'll continue to see them taken over by 7M8s, ideally with frequency improvements. On the busier routes, a 330 is a reasonable upgauge. They're a bit better on fuel, so the trip cost isn't that much higher.


      That's fuel per pax regarding the A330, I'm assuming :scratchchin:


      Yes.

      I also agree AC's approach has been excellent. The high-low mix, to borrow from a different type of aviation, makes a lot of sense since it allows them to rapidly ramp up and down capacity with the economic cycle by leasing and parking cheap used frames.
       
      briguychau
      Posts: 246
      Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:36 am

      Update:

      YYZ-FRA (AC876/877) and YYC-FRA are now on the 789. YYZ-YVR AC103 and YVR-YYZ AC186 are now operated by 77L to feed YVR-PEK.
      YYZ-LAX (AC793/788) are also moved from 789 to 77L, while YYZ-SFO AC737/738 is changed from 789 to 77W.
       
      matt
      Posts: 740
      Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:51 pm

      briguychau wrote:
      Update:

      YYZ-FRA (AC876/877) and YYC-FRA are now on the 789. YYZ-YVR AC103 and YVR-YYZ AC186 are now operated by 77L to feed YVR-PEK.
      YYZ-LAX (AC793/788) are also moved from 789 to 77L, while YYZ-SFO AC737/738 is changed from 789 to 77W.


      Thank you. This makes a lot more sense in terms of rotations through the schedule. I can connect all the pieces of the puzzle.

      I also see that two more YYZ-YYC rotations will be added with the 763. How many mainline 763s will be in service for the summer 2019 period? I had understood five, but it may be six. It looks like they would need six.
      Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
       
      ShamrockBoi330
      Posts: 78
      Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:28 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:36 pm

      When did YUL - DUB revert back to Rouge 767? Did i miss that announcement? Last i saw it was moving from 7M8 to 330?

      I have my father coming to visit me in Toronto in June and he is going to YUL first for a few days, but i was expecting it to be mainline 7M8?

      What gives, Rouge is rough TA!
       
      matt
      Posts: 740
      Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:51 pm

      ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
      When did YUL - DUB revert back to Rouge 767? Did i miss that announcement? Last i saw it was moving from 7M8 to 330?

      I have my father coming to visit me in Toronto in June and he is going to YUL first for a few days, but i was expecting it to be mainline 7M8?

      What gives, Rouge is rough TA!


      Rouge? Where did you see that? YUL-DUB will be operated by mainline A330-300 four times a week this summer. YVR-DUB will also be operated by same aircraft three times a week.
      Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
       
      Thomaas
      Posts: 651
      Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:52 pm

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:10 am

      matt wrote:
      ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
      When did YUL - DUB revert back to Rouge 767? Did i miss that announcement? Last i saw it was moving from 7M8 to 330?

      I have my father coming to visit me in Toronto in June and he is going to YUL first for a few days, but i was expecting it to be mainline 7M8?

      What gives, Rouge is rough TA!


      Rouge? Where did you see that? YUL-DUB will be operated by mainline A330-300 four times a week this summer. YVR-DUB will also be operated by same aircraft three times a week.


      Rouge 767s will operate both YUL-DUB and YVR-DUB from mid-May to mid-June, after which it goes to mainline. It is mostly probably due to a delivery delay for the A330s.
       
      ShamrockBoi330
      Posts: 78
      Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:28 am

      Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

      Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:16 am

      matt wrote:
      ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
      When did YUL - DUB revert back to Rouge 767? Did i miss that announcement? Last i saw it was moving from 7M8 to 330?

      I have my father coming to visit me in Toronto in June and he is going to YUL first for a few days, but i was expecting it to be mainline 7M8?

      What gives, Rouge is rough TA!


      Rouge? Where did you see that? YUL-DUB will be operated by mainline A330-300 four times a week this summer. YVR-DUB will also be operated by same aircraft three times a week.


      DUB - YUL June 4th AC1937

      that was what i thought too! I first saw it on my fathers itinerary when he sent it to me, so checked online and its on all the search engines including Air. Canada., downloaded their timetable and same.

      I'd attach a screenshot but not figured that out yet!
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