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enilria
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AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:58 am

This seems like a conflict of interest to me for the other airlines. I have to question it. Perhaps airlines can opt out? Doesn't sound like it...

Propeller Airports announced today that it has selected McGee Air Services, Inc. for aircraft ground handling and passenger mobility services on behalf of the airlines that will serve Paine Field. The partnership is one of several that Propeller plans on announcing as construction of the new passenger terminal in Everett nears completion. The terminal, designed by leading architectural firm Fentress, is intended to provide customers a higher level of service and comfort than larger airports and to become the go-to travel option for the northern Seattle metro area.

McGee Air Services, an independent subsidiary of Alaska Airlines, will handle Paine Field's 24 daily departures and arrivals with aircraft marshaling and towing, baggage handling, loading and unloading, cabin cleaning, and passenger support and mobility services. The agreement with Propeller will create approximately 70 new union jobs for McGee's Paine Field operation.


https://pilotonline.com/business/articl ... 4c02f.html
 
Moosefire
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:04 am

What’s the conflict? Companies win contracts to be exclusive vendors all the time. McGee bid and won.
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enilria
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:06 am

Forcing airlines to be handled by a competitor is new ground for the USA. Self-handling is an option at every airport I know of in the USA except HPN, but the handler is not owned by an airline.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:23 am

Below wing exclusive contracts exist all over the U.S. I am aware of terminals at LAX, JFK, LAS and MIA that have such arrangements.

Airlines can self-handle above wing, but below must utilize an approved vendor(s) that hold concession.
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janders
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:26 am

Handling by a competitor is extremely common, especially in the regional world. Not unusual for vendors like Envoy(AA), or DGS(DL) to handle every airline at smaller stations.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
alasizon
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:27 am

Having a single handler will probably help them with running that tight of a schedule as you can move people around more freely. Now the fact it is only 70 jobs seems low.

5-7 Ramp agents for both gates
2-3 Ramp agents for the bagroom
1 agent per airline BSO
2 agents per airline ATO
3-4 agents for wheelchairs
1 agent for UA/AS turn cleaning
3 agents for RON cleaning/start-up duties.

That is a minimum of 20 agents per shift. Even FT each on 4/10s would just barely cover the minimal staffing.
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B757capt
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:30 am

Yep, common place to see this type of stuff happening. Only question is will WNs union agreements allow this?
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INFINITI329
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:59 am

B757capt wrote:
Yep, common place to see this type of stuff happening. Only question is will WNs union agreements allow this?


As long flight activity remains below 12 flights Southwest is free to use whomever this wish for under the wing servicing. Above the wing I have to get back to you on what that maximum number is.
 
superjeff
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:30 am

I think there are other cases like that. Doesn't Westchester County (White Plains, NY) do the same thing?
 
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enilria
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:35 am

LAXintl wrote:
Below wing exclusive contracts exist all over the U.S. I am aware of terminals at LAX, JFK, LAS and MIA that have such arrangements.

Airlines can self-handle above wing, but below must utilize an approved vendor(s) that hold concession.

Yes it is common for there to be one handler and yes it is common to be handled by a competitor, but is it common that the one handler option is a competitor?

Southwest does its below wing everywhere with more than like 7 round trips do they not? None of those airports apparently require a third party handler.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:37 am

Apparently some of you have ever heard of DGS...Delta Global Services. Wholly owned by Delta Airlines and provides ground services to whatever airlines choose to contract with them.

https://www.dalgs.com/about/
 
airtran737
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:01 am

B757capt wrote:
Yep, common place to see this type of stuff happening. Only question is will WNs union agreements allow this?


WN is contract ramp in GRR so this isn’t new territory.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
airtran737
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:02 am

B757capt wrote:
Yep, common place to see this type of stuff happening. Only question is will WNs union agreements allow this?


WN is contract ramp in GRR so this isn’t new territory.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Chiflyer82
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:36 am

B757capt wrote:
Yep, common place to see this type of stuff happening. Only question is will WNs union agreements allow this?

The SWA Customer Service contract calls for contract up to 6 flights, once it exceeds 6 departures it requires SWA employees as Customer Service Agents. The ramp and operations positions are contracted out until they exceed 12 departures per the CBA.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:54 am

enilria wrote:
Forcing airlines to be handled by a competitor is new ground for the USA. Self-handling is an option at every airport I know of in the USA except HPN, but the handler is not owned by an airline.

I'd rather see these positions go to a vendor that is a wholly-owned subsidiary of an airline such as McGee, UGE, Envoy, DGS, etc... than a 3rd party like Menzies et al. It gives the employees a chance to move up in the parent company, better benefits, and better job/contract stability.
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LAXBUR
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:54 am

I would imagine that this was part of the package when airlines signed up that the airport operator would be choosing who handles some or all services. I would highly doubt this is new information to Southwest, etc.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:57 am

alasizon wrote:
Having a single handler will probably help them with running that tight of a schedule as you can move people around more freely. Now the fact it is only 70 jobs seems low.

5-7 Ramp agents for both gates
2-3 Ramp agents for the bagroom
1 agent per airline BSO
2 agents per airline ATO
3-4 agents for wheelchairs
1 agent for UA/AS turn cleaning
3 agents for RON cleaning/start-up duties.

That is a minimum of 20 agents per shift. Even FT each on 4/10s would just barely cover the minimal staffing.


70 likely implies that some or all of the airlines will staff above the wing ops in house.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:19 am

enilria wrote:
Forcing airlines to be handled by a competitor is new ground for the USA. Self-handling is an option at every airport I know of in the USA except HPN, but the handler is not owned by an airline.


Various airlines at multiple airports do ground handling for their competitors. They have for years.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:55 am

rbavfan wrote:
enilria wrote:
Forcing airlines to be handled by a competitor is new ground for the USA. Self-handling is an option at every airport I know of in the USA except HPN, but the handler is not owned by an airline.


Various airlines at multiple airports do ground handling for their competitors. They have for years.

I think the key question enilria is getting at... is this the only airport in the USA where the one, mandated ground service provider is airline owned? As in, everywhere else, it appears, you have the option to use your competitor's GSP, while here you will be required to.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:59 am

janders wrote:
Handling by a competitor is extremely common, especially in the regional world. Not unusual for vendors like Envoy(AA), or DGS(DL) to handle every airline at smaller stations.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe DGS handles all airlines here at FAT. That would be one example.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:00 am

WN732 wrote:
janders wrote:
Handling by a competitor is extremely common, especially in the regional world. Not unusual for vendors like Envoy(AA), or DGS(DL) to handle every airline at smaller stations.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe DGS handles all airlines here at FAT. That would be one example.

They may handle all airlines, but does the airport exclusively allow that one ground service provider, or if another wanted to enter, could it?
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:17 am

WN732 wrote:
janders wrote:
Handling by a competitor is extremely common, especially in the regional world. Not unusual for vendors like Envoy(AA), or DGS(DL) to handle every airline at smaller stations.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe DGS handles all airlines here at FAT. That would be one example.


Not quite, Alaska’s flights are handled by Horizon cross-utilized agents. Yet another example of a competitor handling a competitor’s flights as most of Alaska in FAT is operated by SkyWest.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:32 am

Dominion301 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Having a single handler will probably help them with running that tight of a schedule as you can move people around more freely. Now the fact it is only 70 jobs seems low.

5-7 Ramp agents for both gates
2-3 Ramp agents for the bagroom
1 agent per airline BSO
2 agents per airline ATO
3-4 agents for wheelchairs
1 agent for UA/AS turn cleaning
3 agents for RON cleaning/start-up duties.

That is a minimum of 20 agents per shift. Even FT each on 4/10s would just barely cover the minimal staffing.


70 likely implies that some or all of the airlines will staff above the wing ops in house.


All, most likely. I don't know of a single station where McGee does anything above-wing, save for aircraft cleaning.
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:49 am

jonair8 wrote:
Not quite, Alaska’s flights are handled by Horizon cross-utilized agents. Yet another example of a competitor handling a competitor’s flights as most of Alaska in FAT is operated by SkyWest.


In the case you're citing, that's not really a competitor handling another competitor's flights, given that Alaska Air Group owns Horizon, so the SkyWest flights operated on Alaska's behalf by SkyWest are being handled by a subsidiary of Alaska.

WN732 wrote:
janders wrote:
Handling by a competitor is extremely common, especially in the regional world. Not unusual for vendors like Envoy(AA), or DGS(DL) to handle every airline at smaller stations.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe DGS handles all airlines here at FAT. That would be one example.


It would only be similar if FAT required all carriers to use DGS for ground handling. If DGS happens to be the only vendor which has chosen to enter the market or has won all the contracts, with entry open to other ground handlers, then it's not really the same thing.

EA CO AS wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
70 likely implies that some or all of the airlines will staff above the wing ops in house.


All, most likely. I don't know of a single station where McGee does anything above-wing, save for aircraft cleaning.


enilria wrote:
McGee Air Services, an independent subsidiary of Alaska Airlines, will handle Paine Field's 24 daily departures and arrivals with aircraft marshaling and towing, baggage handling, loading and unloading, cabin cleaning, and passenger support and mobility services. The agreement with Propeller will create approximately 70 new union jobs for McGee's Paine Field operation.


Seems pretty clear which services exactly will be provided by the AAG subsidiary.

LAXintl wrote:
Below wing exclusive contracts exist all over the U.S. I am aware of terminals at LAX, JFK, LAS and MIA that have such arrangements.


But having an exclusive contract for a terminal is one thing. An entire airport isn't quite the same.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:55 am

Having one company running all 3 airlines will probably help the flow of the operation better since you will have 3 airlines using 2 gates. it's a small terminal as a whole this eliminates the need for multiple brake rooms for each airlines staffing.
Just because it's an AlaskaAir subsidiary it's required to remain neutral in the operating environment. Less conflict during Delays between staffing. Each airline will have it's own company manager over seeing the operation.

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my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:38 pm

enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Below wing exclusive contracts exist all over the U.S. I am aware of terminals at LAX, JFK, LAS and MIA that have such arrangements.

Airlines can self-handle above wing, but below must utilize an approved vendor(s) that hold concession.

Yes it is common for there to be one handler and yes it is common to be handled by a competitor, but is it common that the one handler option is a competitor?



Name the U.S. airports with scheduled commercial service that are privately owned and/or privately operated. There you go.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:42 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
enilria wrote:
Forcing airlines to be handled by a competitor is new ground for the USA. Self-handling is an option at every airport I know of in the USA except HPN, but the handler is not owned by an airline.

I'd rather see these positions go to a vendor that is a wholly-owned subsidiary of an airline such as McGee, UGE, Envoy, DGS, etc... than a 3rd party like Menzies et al. It gives the employees a chance to move up in the parent company, better benefits, and better job/contract stability.


DGS was formed for the exact opposite reason. Lower wages, lower benefits, almost impossible to move up. Job stability? None at all. When DGS gets too expensive, they'll close it down and start a new division, hiring all the same people at year 1 pay.
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:56 pm

WN732 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe DGS handles all airlines here at FAT. That would be one example.


Unless it changed since I worked in Ops at FAT, DGS handled Delta Connection and United (Express), while Piedmont handled AA, Allegiant handled its own flights, and QX handled AS.
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:02 pm

When I worked at American Eagle in FNT, we ground handled American and United flights, and same to friends at Eagle in AZO at one point they handled American and Delta flights. Heck I think at one point American Eagle in GRR had American, United, and Air Canada ground handling contracts.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:07 pm

airliner371 wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
enilria wrote:
Forcing airlines to be handled by a competitor is new ground for the USA. Self-handling is an option at every airport I know of in the USA except HPN, but the handler is not owned by an airline.


Various airlines at multiple airports do ground handling for their competitors. They have for years.

I think the key question enilria is getting at... is this the only airport in the USA where the one, mandated ground service provider is airline owned? As in, everywhere else, it appears, you have the option to use your competitor's GSP, while here you will be required to.

That's the core of it. AS is going to prioritize their own flights in the real world. They may not admit it, but they will. Self-handling should ALWAYS be an option, and frankly there should be an FBO or somebody else allowed to do handling. Monopolies are "easier to manage", so are monarchies.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:44 pm

I’m sure if there’s a problem UA and WN will make it known.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
evank516
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:59 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Below wing exclusive contracts exist all over the U.S. I am aware of terminals at LAX, JFK, LAS and MIA that have such arrangements.

Airlines can self-handle above wing, but below must utilize an approved vendor(s) that hold concession.

Yes it is common for there to be one handler and yes it is common to be handled by a competitor, but is it common that the one handler option is a competitor?



Name the U.S. airports with scheduled commercial service that are privately owned and/or privately operated. There you go.


Branson. F9 flies there, albeit seasonally.

enilria wrote:
Forcing airlines to be handled by a competitor is new ground for the USA. Self-handling is an option at every airport I know of in the USA except HPN, but the handler is not owned by an airline.


I had no idea that this existed in HPN. What's the situation there?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:15 pm

You guys are really getting worked up about something pretty minor.

The deal is the airport authority is in charge of ground handling. They in turn opted to run an RFP and bring a vendor in to do this. McGee Air Services won this contract. Could have been DGS, Menzies, Swissport, Envoy, or any other company that competed.

This same situation exist in multiple airports around the country. For example, this is the exact situation at several cities where Allegiant operates to including in Florida and in the Plains where airport authority in charge of ground service and either has its own staff, or have partnered with a vendor to service all flights.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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enilria
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:37 pm

evank516 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Yes it is common for there to be one handler and yes it is common to be handled by a competitor, but is it common that the one handler option is a competitor?



Name the U.S. airports with scheduled commercial service that are privately owned and/or privately operated. There you go.


Branson. F9 flies there, albeit seasonally.

enilria wrote:
Forcing airlines to be handled by a competitor is new ground for the USA. Self-handling is an option at every airport I know of in the USA except HPN, but the handler is not owned by an airline.


I had no idea that this existed in HPN. What's the situation there?

Branson is basically the only private airport in the USA with commercial service and it appears that they have financial involvement in all their air services, so that means they are probably offering free ground handling through a unit of the airport. Even if not, since they are involved financially involved they will probably make certain everybody is treated well.

White Plains is "slot" controlled, except they use a scheme that is based upon passenger terminal throughput. When they opened this terminal they argued that since the hourly throughput is fixed it was most efficient to have a single handler. To my knowledge it is not an airline owned handler, or at least it wasn't when the terminal opened.
 
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enilria
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:39 pm

LAXintl wrote:
You guys are really getting worked up about something pretty minor.

The deal is the airport authority is in charge of ground handling. They in turn opted to run an RFP and bring a vendor in to do this. McGee Air Services won this contract. Could have been DGS, Menzies, Swissport, Envoy, or any other company that competed.

This same situation exist in multiple airports around the country. For example, this is the exact situation at several cities where Allegiant operates to including in Florida and in the Plains where airport authority in charge of ground service and either has its own staff, or have partnered with a vendor to service all flights.

The difference remains that the forced handler is one of the airlines operating from the airport. The question is whether that exists anywhere else in the USA? It probably exists in Chengdu, but anywhere else in the USA?
 
Bald1983
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:46 pm

enilria wrote:
This seems like a conflict of interest to me for the other airlines. I have to question it. Perhaps airlines can opt out? Doesn't sound like it...

Propeller Airports announced today that it has selected McGee Air Services, Inc. for aircraft ground handling and passenger mobility services on behalf of the airlines that will serve Paine Field. The partnership is one of several that Propeller plans on announcing as construction of the new passenger terminal in Everett nears completion. The terminal, designed by leading architectural firm Fentress, is intended to provide customers a higher level of service and comfort than larger airports and to become the go-to travel option for the northern Seattle metro area.

McGee Air Services, an independent subsidiary of Alaska Airlines, will handle Paine Field's 24 daily departures and arrivals with aircraft marshaling and towing, baggage handling, loading and unloading, cabin cleaning, and passenger support and mobility services. The agreement with Propeller will create approximately 70 new union jobs for McGee's Paine Field operation.


https://pilotonline.com/business/articl ... 4c02f.html


In ancient times, Continental and America West had an agreement that America West would service Continental planes in western airports and Continental would service America West planes in the east. Seemed to work. I suspect this will as well. It makes sense in that the operations at Everett, at least for the start, are pretty small. I hope they grow. Particularly given that abhorrent traffic situation in the Seattle area, having an option of not going through Seattle to get to Sea Tac is a desirable thing.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:50 pm

enilria wrote:
The difference remains that the forced handler is one of the airlines operating from the airport. The question is whether that exists anywhere else in the USA? It probably exists in Chengdu, but anywhere else in the USA?


McGee is not an airline. Neither is DGS, Menzies, Swissport or ACME handling.

Would you not use Swissport when it was owned partially Swissair once? How about LSG Skychef for catering because of Lufthansa stake? Or how about not flying to Frankfurt because there is only a single ground handler FRAport which Lufthansa has a stake in.

And yes there are airports in the US with solely single authorized vendor. LAXINTL actually jars my memory that is indeed the case as many smaller cities Allegiant serves where airport operator takes on ground handling responsibility (as with this situation in Paine) and then brings in a vendor to do the work.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:54 pm

enilria wrote:
airliner371 wrote:
rbavfan wrote:

Various airlines at multiple airports do ground handling for their competitors. They have for years.

I think the key question enilria is getting at... is this the only airport in the USA where the one, mandated ground service provider is airline owned? As in, everywhere else, it appears, you have the option to use your competitor's GSP, while here you will be required to.

That's the core of it. AS is going to prioritize their own flights in the real world. They may not admit it, but they will. Self-handling should ALWAYS be an option, and frankly there should be an FBO or somebody else allowed to do handling. Monopolies are "easier to manage", so are monarchies.


Which would cause the other airlines to complain to the airport owner, who would investigate. If they were found guilty, I am sure the airport contact has an escape clause that would allow for termination of the contract with just cause and penalties. Ultimately McGee needs to generate a profit or it will be axed by the accountants at AS. The best way to do that is to provide exception service to their client, the airport, and their client's clients, AS, UA and WN. Additionally being the small fry at airports that are handled by any of the big 3 could easily expose them to retaliation which would then hurt AS. From a pure business standpoint acting like you are assuming they will would be counterproductive.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:33 pm

I don’t think anyone is being “forced”. I am sure this was a stipulation of serving this airport. Everyone had to know McGee would bid. If it wasn’t disclosed, then I could see some friction. But for the moment, it appears folks are looking for a problem.

Forced or not, many airlines handle other operations. I noticed Horizon ground handles American in Boise the last time I was there. They’re being paid for a service and if they prioritize their own aircraft enough, they’ll lose their contract.
 
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usxguy
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:45 pm

Orlando Sanford is ran by TBI - you can't use anyone but them.

And I believe in Las Vegas, you have to use Swissport or another handler for international flights.
xx
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:48 pm

McGee is not a subsidiary AS. They are both communities owned by ALK.

Yeah, it's a detail, but it costs us nothing to get the details correct.
 
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:30 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
McGee is not a subsidiary AS. They are both communities owned by ALK.

Yeah, it's a detail, but it costs us nothing to get the details correct.

Is this a typo or did you really refer to each company as a community.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2005
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:28 pm

Ground handling vendors favor some clients over others all the time. If F9 is handled by AA in ORD and needs to be de-iced you can bet that the AA aircraft are higher on the priority list. Happens all the time everywhere. That said, PAE will be such a small operation...everyone will know everyone and that'll keep it all honest and above board.
 
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enilria
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Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:32 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
I don’t think anyone is being “forced”. I am sure this was a stipulation of serving this airport.

That's the definition of forced. The airport is not private. It's paid for with tax dollars.
usxguy wrote:
And I believe in Las Vegas, you have to use Swissport or another handler for international flights.

Sure, but still nobody has posted a single example where the required handler is a competitor.

janders wrote:
How about LSG Skychef for catering because of Lufthansa stake? Or how about not flying to Frankfurt because there is only a single ground handler FRAport which Lufthansa has a stake in.

That's catering. We are talking about ground handling. Also, I specifically said the USA. Yes, it is not uncommon where the flag airline is owned by the State to have forced handling by a competitor. The U.S. has been more free market than that up until now. BTW, FRAPORT is only 8% owned by LH. McGee is 100% owned by Alaska Air Group. The only reason it is a subsidiary is to sidestep union contracts.
 
gmcc
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:54 am

Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:11 pm

enilria wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
I don’t think anyone is being “forced”. I am sure this was a stipulation of serving this airport.

That's the definition of forced. The airport is not private. It's paid for with tax dollars.
usxguy wrote:
And I believe in Las Vegas, you have to use Swissport or another handler for international flights.

Sure, but still nobody has posted a single example where the required handler is a competitor.

janders wrote:
How about LSG Skychef for catering because of Lufthansa stake? Or how about not flying to Frankfurt because there is only a single ground handler FRAport which Lufthansa has a stake in.

That's catering. We are talking about ground handling. Also, I specifically said the USA. Yes, it is not uncommon where the flag airline is owned by the State to have forced handling by a competitor. The U.S. has been more free market than that up until now. BTW, FRAPORT is only 8% owned by LH. McGee is 100% owned by Alaska Air Group. The only reason it is a subsidiary is to sidestep union contracts.



Not sure how McGee is sidestepping union contracts. All McGee employees are covered by a union contract with the IAM

http://www.iam720.org/
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:17 pm

LAXintl wrote:
You guys are really getting worked up about something pretty minor.

The deal is the airport authority is in charge of ground handling. They in turn opted to run an RFP and bring a vendor in to do this. McGee Air Services won this contract. Could have been DGS, Menzies, Swissport, Envoy, or any other company that competed.

This same situation exist in multiple airports around the country. For example, this is the exact situation at several cities where Allegiant operates to including in Florida and in the Plains where airport authority in charge of ground service and either has its own staff, or have partnered with a vendor to service all flights.


This is how I see it. Furthermore, the airport authority is selecting them to fulfill a service their customer requires. Alaska could hypothetically pressure McGee to inappropriately prioritize Alaska movements, but if WN or UA complain and Propeller doesn't bring their contractor in line, Propeller is hurting themselves by lowering the value of operating from Paine Field.

At the latest, that would bite them when their contracts with WN and UA come up for renewal and neither airline wants to pay as much as the slots and space are worth if supported by good ground crews.
 
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NameOmitted
Posts: 653
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:59 pm

Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:54 pm

32andBelow wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
McGee is not a subsidiary AS. They are both communities owned by ALK.

Yeah, it's a detail, but it costs us nothing to get the details correct.

Is this a typo or did you really refer to each company as a community.


Typo... So much for getting the details correct. :splat:
 
WkndWanderer
Posts: 263
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:56 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Having a single handler will probably help them with running that tight of a schedule as you can move people around more freely. Now the fact it is only 70 jobs seems low.

5-7 Ramp agents for both gates
2-3 Ramp agents for the bagroom
1 agent per airline BSO
2 agents per airline ATO
3-4 agents for wheelchairs
1 agent for UA/AS turn cleaning
3 agents for RON cleaning/start-up duties.

That is a minimum of 20 agents per shift. Even FT each on 4/10s would just barely cover the minimal staffing.


70 likely implies that some or all of the airlines will staff above the wing ops in house.


Some of those functions are overlapped with the same people, people that are working flights are also going to be doing some work in the bagroom and for RON/ first flight duties. I would be surprised if there are 7 ramp agents ever dedicated to working one 76 seat E175 flight. The agent doing baggage service claims for each airline will also probably be one of it's own customer service agents. Plenty of small airports don't even have dedicated baggage service offices and bag claims are simply handled at the ticket counter.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:40 pm

enilria wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
I don’t think anyone is being “forced”. I am sure this was a stipulation of serving this airport.

That's the definition of forced. The airport is not private. It's paid for with tax dollars.
usxguy wrote:
And I believe in Las Vegas, you have to use Swissport or another handler for international flights.

Sure, but still nobody has posted a single example where the required handler is a competitor.

janders wrote:
How about LSG Skychef for catering because of Lufthansa stake? Or how about not flying to Frankfurt because there is only a single ground handler FRAport which Lufthansa has a stake in.


That's catering. We are talking about ground handling. Also, I specifically said the USA. Yes, it is not uncommon where the flag airline is owned by the State to have forced handling by a competitor. The U.S. has been more free market than that up until now. BTW, FRAPORT is only 8% owned by LH. McGee is 100% owned by Alaska Air Group. The only reason it is a subsidiary is to sidestep union contracts.


Again, I can assume that each airline was informed of the ground handling situation prior to agreeing to serve the airport. That’s what I mean by they aren’t being forced to use a competitor as they likely agreed to have the airport operator choose one ground handler whoever that would be. I’m sure they could have negotiated this out and/or thrown a public fit about it. I could be wrong about how it went down. If this didn’t happen then the airport management company and/or airlines aren’t very good at what they do.

It may not be common, but I don’t seeing it be unethical, illegal, or whatever point you’re driving at as long as everyone knew what they were getting into and McGee meets their obligations. McGee would be quite stupid to openly prioritize Alaska related operations. I don’t know their business plan, but I can assume they want positive feedback to expand their footprint beyond AAG related operations.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: AS Subsidiary Will Perform Ground Handling for All Airlines at PAE

Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:03 pm

I’m sure if WN and UA would like to pay more to Propeller, they would be happy to consider their options. :-)
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.

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