Ezra
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JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:04 am

No mention of Delta in today's Cuomo presser, save for the inference that the T1 consortium's plan for redeveloping the Terminal 2 and 3 site was chosen over the Delta/IAT submsisson. But surely negotiations could not have advanced this far without some provision for -- and input from -- the airport's largest airline. So, what do you think Delta's play is? Are they angling to move non-alliance airlines over to the new T1 and take over all of T4 for themselves?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:24 am

The T1 rebuild with AF mentioned a connector to T4. It mentioned a teardown of T2. Both of those are good things for Delta. If Delta wants to announce new plans for the extension of T4 or to build out the space of vacated T2, let them negotiate it.
 
sxf24
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:52 am

Delta will almost certainly get space in the new terminal that’s equivalent to the number of gates it has in T2.
 
tinpusher007
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:36 am

Ezra wrote:
No mention of Delta in today's Cuomo presser, save for the inference that the T1 consortium's plan for redeveloping the Terminal 2 and 3 site was chosen over the Delta/IAT submsisson. But surely negotiations could not have advanced this far without some provision for -- and input from -- the airport's largest airline. So, what do you think Delta's play is? Are they angling to move non-alliance airlines over to the new T1 and take over all of T4 for themselves?

What was the Delta/IAT submission???
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:52 pm

Delta gets a nice view of construction. haha

Seriously, I imagine they will get T4 A concourse without having to spend much.

They really just completed their terminal redo a few years ago.
 
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PW100
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:01 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
The T1 rebuild with AF mentioned a connector to T4.


That seems to become some serious connector . . . :

Image
Existing T4 just visible to the left
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:10 pm

It is so much bigger, T1 and T4 are next to each other.

Not much of a connector at all!
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:20 pm

Ezra wrote:
No mention of Delta in today's Cuomo presser, save for the inference that the T1 consortium's plan for redeveloping the Terminal 2 and 3 site was chosen over the Delta/IAT submsisson. But surely negotiations could not have advanced this far without some provision for -- and input from -- the airport's largest airline. So, what do you think Delta's play is? Are they angling to move non-alliance airlines over to the new T1 and take over all of T4 for themselves?

I would assume this is referring to Delta/IAT, and AA for that matter:

Additional discussions with multiple other airlines and terminal operators remain ongoing to further advance the goals of the Vision Plan.


V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
dampfnudel
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:11 pm

Maybe T5. :duck:
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5

AA AI CO CL DE DL EA HA KL LH N7 PA PQ SK RO TW UA YR
 
jrkmsp
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:18 pm

The new T1 has 2 more gates than the combined T1 and T2 have today (23 vs 21). So, presumably, Delta is entitled to 11 gates in the new terminal. However, I could see them executing a trade where they move a bunch of the cats and dogs from T4 to new T1 and get 11 gates at T4. I think it's also likely that we'll see the buildout of T4A, as is shown in some of the earlier renderings. I'd expect these things to be announced in the months ahead. Either way, there's no way JFK is going to tell Delta to pound sand. Remember, while airline groups won the development deals, they still have to accommodate other airlines.
 
gsg013
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:50 pm

Would it be possible that DL | KLM | Air France | Virgin Atlantic | Aero Mexico | Korean Air all co-locate in T4 and move Swiss South African El Al and those other non skyteam non DL partners out of T4 into the new T1. It would be great to have T4 be essentially an all skyteam terminal.
 
LondonXtreme
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:50 pm

jrkmsp wrote:
The new T1 has 2 more gates than the combined T1 and T2 have today (23 vs 21). So, presumably, Delta is entitled to 11 gates in the new terminal. However, I could see them executing a trade where they move a bunch of the cats and dogs from T4 to new T1 and get 11 gates at T4. I think it's also likely that we'll see the buildout of T4A, as is shown in some of the earlier renderings. I'd expect these things to be announced in the months ahead. Either way, there's no way JFK is going to tell Delta to pound sand. Remember, while airline groups won the development deals, they still have to accommodate other airlines.

I would see that happens, so T1 will entirely serve international flights only. Otherwise a mix of domestic and international flights will be a mess.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:04 pm

All JFK terminals (sans old T6 and T2) are domestic/international capable.
 
Ezra
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:29 pm

I may be wrong but I don't believe that T1 currently supports domestic arrivals. I don't think it has domestic baggage claim capabilities.
 
DL757NYC
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:31 pm

Delta put up a ton of cash for a half new terminal. To go from T2 which is a terribly old building dating back to the 60’s. And take a bus to T4 is ridiculous. Plus the walk from the entrance of T4 to the further gates is a looooong walk. They don’t even run T4 IAT does. Then there was the plan for the other side to be extended. The biggest airline at JFK has the oldest terminal in the airport. And a half-ass expensive T4 They should build a terminal where T3 was knock down T2 and expand out T1. The spot is tight between T1 and 2 with the A380 and 747/773 there. Planes get stuck in there or have to wait to get in. I’m not surprised NY has the highest taxes and the worst infrastructure. I’ve seen nicer airports in developing countries. 5 years ago they were using a terminal where the first jet planes used to use. 50 years ago that old Pam-Am building was built. Just a mess 10 billion is the estimate let’s see what that gets the tax payers
 
ZBA2CGX
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:39 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Delta gets a nice view of construction. haha

Seriously, I imagine they will get T4 A concourse without having to spend much.

They really just completed their terminal redo a few years ago.


The original expansion plans of JFK T4 (found at viewtopic.php?t=1353171) and image.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13870562@N05/32073250200/

If T4 keeps the configuration the same, I see 10 new wide body gates or XX narrow body.
 
tinpusher007
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:09 pm

ZBA2CGX wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Delta gets a nice view of construction. haha

Seriously, I imagine they will get T4 A concourse without having to spend much.

They really just completed their terminal redo a few years ago.


The original expansion plans of JFK T4 (found at viewtopic.php?t=1353171) and image.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13870562@N05/32073250200/

If T4 keeps the configuration the same, I see 10 new wide body gates or XX narrow body.

I would think the T4A extension would have to replace the amount of gates in T2 which is currently 10. if all the non skyteam airlines vacate T4, then DL would presumably have access to the 6 current gates on T4A as well.
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FSDan
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:40 pm

tinpusher007 wrote:
ZBA2CGX wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Delta gets a nice view of construction. haha

Seriously, I imagine they will get T4 A concourse without having to spend much.

They really just completed their terminal redo a few years ago.


The original expansion plans of JFK T4 (found at viewtopic.php?t=1353171) and image.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13870562@N05/32073250200/

If T4 keeps the configuration the same, I see 10 new wide body gates or XX narrow body.

I would think the T4A extension would have to replace the amount of gates in T2 which is currently 10. if all the non skyteam airlines vacate T4, then DL would presumably have access to the 6 current gates on T4A as well.


I'd think DL would almost have to build out T4A to avoid losing gates while T1 is being expanded. Something like: DL builds out T4A and moves out of T2 > T2 is demolished and T1 is expanded east > original T1 is knocked down and rebuilt into the new T1. Similarly, it'd be easiest on the north side of the airport if AA were to build out the east part of T8. Then BA and IB could move in while T7 is razed and rebuilt by B6.
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maverick4002
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:38 pm

Ezra wrote:
I may be wrong but I don't believe that T1 currently supports domestic arrivals. I don't think it has domestic baggage claim capabilities.


Whats the difference between internatonal and domestic baggage claim? Doest the luggage all go on the same belt lol
 
United1
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:52 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
Ezra wrote:
I may be wrong but I don't believe that T1 currently supports domestic arrivals. I don't think it has domestic baggage claim capabilities.


Whats the difference between internatonal and domestic baggage claim? Doest the luggage all go on the same belt lol


No as you claim your luggage from international flights before going through customs. You can’t combine the two passenger streams together until after that point.

Domestic: Disembark aircraft => Claim Luggage

International: Disembark Aircraft => Clear Immigration => Claim Luggage => Clear Customs
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twicearound
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:54 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
Ezra wrote:
I may be wrong but I don't believe that T1 currently supports domestic arrivals. I don't think it has domestic baggage claim capabilities.


Whats the difference between internatonal and domestic baggage claim? Doest the luggage all go on the same belt lol


No... one involves customs and one does not. Think about when you've traveled domestic vs. Intl and the difference in process from getting off the plane to picking your bags up.
 
Prost
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:37 pm

In Europe Schengen and International baggage claim are the same. That may be confusing for some forum members.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:41 pm

Ezra wrote:
I may be wrong but I don't believe that T1 currently supports domestic arrivals. I don't think it has domestic baggage claim capabilities.

I believe you are correct currently

but I'd be shocked if the new T1 doesn't support domestic flying.


Of course I don't think this matters for Delta because
FSDan wrote:
tinpusher007 wrote:
ZBA2CGX wrote:

The original expansion plans of JFK T4 (found at viewtopic.php?t=1353171) and image.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13870562@N05/32073250200/

If T4 keeps the configuration the same, I see 10 new wide body gates or XX narrow body.

I would think the T4A extension would have to replace the amount of gates in T2 which is currently 10. if all the non skyteam airlines vacate T4, then DL would presumably have access to the 6 current gates on T4A as well.


I'd think DL would almost have to build out T4A to avoid losing gates while T1 is being expanded. Something like: DL builds out T4A and moves out of T2 > T2 is demolished and T1 is expanded east > original T1 is knocked down and rebuilt into the new T1. Similarly, it'd be easiest on the north side of the airport if AA were to build out the east part of T8. Then BA and IB could move in while T7 is razed and rebuilt by B6.

correct. I would be absolutely shocked if T4A isn't done and any T8 expansion isn't done first. I don't believe Delta could lose T2 for a long as it will likely take to rebuild T1 completely.

Also, I don't believe T8 currently has the gate space at peak times to fit the BA operation. Much less the terminal space for the (likely) BA clubs.
 
atlflyer
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:51 am

DL757NYC wrote:
Delta put up a ton of cash for a half new terminal. To go from T2 which is a terribly old building dating back to the 60’s. And take a bus to T4 is ridiculous. Plus the walk from the entrance of T4 to the further gates is a looooong walk. They don’t even run T4 IAT does. Then there was the plan for the other side to be extended. The biggest airline at JFK has the oldest terminal in the airport. And a half-ass expensive T4 They should build a terminal where T3 was knock down T2 and expand out T1. The spot is tight between T1 and 2 with the A380 and 747/773 there. Planes get stuck in there or have to wait to get in. I’m not surprised NY has the highest taxes and the worst infrastructure. I’ve seen nicer airports in developing countries. 5 years ago they were using a terminal where the first jet planes used to use. 50 years ago that old Pam-Am building was built. Just a mess 10 billion is the estimate let’s see what that gets the tax payers


The tax payers aren’t putting up the money. The airlines are paying for it.
 
cpl22586
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:47 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
Ezra wrote:
I may be wrong but I don't believe that T1 currently supports domestic arrivals. I don't think it has domestic baggage claim capabilities.


Whats the difference between internatonal and domestic baggage claim? Doest the luggage all go on the same belt lol



At Jetblue Terminal 5 for example they have two dedicated international baggage belts 7 and 8 where you pick up your bags and then clear customs.
 
jrkmsp
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:50 pm

On the earnings call today, Ed Bastian said Delta is negotiating with the port authority and Cuomo's office to "move T2's capacity into T4." This includes building out additional facilities. Deal isn't done yet, but clearly it's coming.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:45 pm

I would imagine Delta grows to basically taking over T4. If not for IAT owning T4, this would be a lot simpler (non-DL carriers go to T1, DL gets T4 to itself) in theory. Still a lot of work to even do that.

DL will need a make good for sure, and the easiest would remain making T4 DL's terminal as their own. I weird end for hte old JFK International Terminal.
 
atlflyer
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:47 pm

jrkmsp wrote:
On the earnings call today, Ed Bastian said Delta is negotiating with the port authority and Cuomo's office to "move T2's capacity into T4." This includes building out additional facilities. Deal isn't done yet, but clearly it's coming.


This would make the most sense. I hope they also fully renovate the old sections so everything matches.
 
Ezra
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:19 pm

I know that we've seen drawings for the liner extension of T4A, but I also wonder if that concourse could be extended in a "triangle" shape (similar to United's concourse C1 or C3 at EWR)? There seems to be room on the site for an arrangement like this to increase the gate count so that they're not merely duplicating the 10 or 11 gates that will be lost when T2 is demolished.
 
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:27 pm

What about the hardstand space DL will be losing (at least according to the rendering above) when a concourse is built over the old T3 space? Will DL receive space to compensate for that?
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Ezra
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:05 pm

OA412 wrote:
What about the hardstand space DL will be losing (at least according to the rendering above) when a concourse is built over the old T3 space? Will DL receive space to compensate for that?


This is a good point. The old T3 area is striped for at least 15 hardstands.
 
Ezra
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:08 pm

OA412 wrote:
What about the hardstand space DL will be losing (at least according to the rendering above) when a concourse is built over the old T3 space? Will DL receive space to compensate for that?


This is a good point. The old T3 area is striped for at least 15 hardstands.
 
dfdubflyer
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:25 pm

Perhaps T4 connects with new T1 the new "North Terminal" or whatever and DL takes over the pier that currently has all those random carriers on it. That should approximate what they're losing in T2, no?

The lack of even acknowledgement of T8 in this whole plan is bizarre to me
 
HVNandrew
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:32 pm

Ezra wrote:
OA412 wrote:
What about the hardstand space DL will be losing (at least according to the rendering above) when a concourse is built over the old T3 space? Will DL receive space to compensate for that?


This is a good point. The old T3 area is striped for at least 15 hardstands.

And wasn't having those hardstands available a major justification for quickly demolishing T3? I would think the parking issue would have to be addressed as a priority item.
 
blockski
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:38 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
Perhaps T4 connects with new T1 the new "North Terminal" or whatever and DL takes over the pier that currently has all those random carriers on it. That should approximate what they're losing in T2, no?

The lack of even acknowledgement of T8 in this whole plan is bizarre to me


There's no 'perhaps' about it, the new T1 clearly connects to the existing T4 in the renderings, and in all of the news articles.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/04/nyre ... cuomo.html

Mr. Cotton said that a consortium of four foreign carriers — Lufthansa, Air France, Japan Airlines and Korean Airlines — had pledged to spend $7 billion to replace Terminals 1 and 2 with a massive terminal containing 23 gates and 230,000 square feet of stores and restaurants. He said that the complex would be operated by Munich Airport International and would be connected to Terminal 4, integrating the south side of the airport.
 
jrkmsp
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:47 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
I would imagine Delta grows to basically taking over T4. If not for IAT owning T4, this would be a lot simpler (non-DL carriers go to T1, DL gets T4 to itself) in theory. Still a lot of work to even do that.

DL will need a make good for sure, and the easiest would remain making T4 DL's terminal as their own. I weird end for hte old JFK International Terminal.


Yeah, I'd say this is most likely. Delta basically gets T4 to itself and select partners, AM, VS, etc., and everyone else in T4 moves over to the new T1, which is now much bigger.

On the earnings call, Ed also talked about how this renovation would facilitate the US alliance carriers being connected to their foreign partners. So, presumably we're looking at T1 being the home of SkyTeam and maybe Star, a modestly expanded T8 (it's in the renderings if you look hard enough) being the home of OneWorld and T5/6 being the home of the cats and dogs. We could see a total reshuffling of who goes where at JFK. Exciting times.
 
atlflyer
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:11 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
Perhaps T4 connects with new T1 the new "North Terminal" or whatever and DL takes over the pier that currently has all those random carriers on it. That should approximate what they're losing in T2, no?

The lack of even acknowledgement of T8 in this whole plan is bizarre to me


It is funny how T8 is hardly visible in the renderings.
 
dfdubflyer
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:28 pm

blockski wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
Perhaps T4 connects with new T1 the new "North Terminal" or whatever and DL takes over the pier that currently has all those random carriers on it. That should approximate what they're losing in T2, no?

The lack of even acknowledgement of T8 in this whole plan is bizarre to me


There's no 'perhaps' about it, the new T1 clearly connects to the existing T4 in the renderings, and in all of the news articles.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/04/nyre ... cuomo.html

Mr. Cotton said that a consortium of four foreign carriers — Lufthansa, Air France, Japan Airlines and Korean Airlines — had pledged to spend $7 billion to replace Terminals 1 and 2 with a massive terminal containing 23 gates and 230,000 square feet of stores and restaurants. He said that the complex would be operated by Munich Airport International and would be connected to Terminal 4, integrating the south side of the airport.


Sorry I forgot to add the word “when.” Perhaps “when.” My point was primarily about the pier replacing the gate loss from T2 not whether they would connect as that’s quite obvious from everything they’ve released.
 
atlflyer
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:17 am

Per seekingalpha.com:

Edward Bastian

Hi Helane, this is Ed. We are obviously working with the Governor as we do with the Port Authority to figure out the long-term strategy at JFK. Right now, I think it's premature. A vision's been laid out. There's a long way to go between taking that vision and some of the initial commitments to actual documentation and deals.

Our goal is to unify Terminal 4. So the T2 facility will eventually be brought into Terminal 4 and we'll be building out some additional capacity for Terminal 4, which we're excited by. We don't have that in place with the port yet. We've been talking about that with them for the last couple of years and I support the Governor's vision, creating a more unified version. One of the big challenges at JFK as you appreciate is the alliances are generally not in the same airport facilities as the home carriers and I think over time hopefully, that will get resettled.

Helane Becker

Okay. And then does that in any way change – I think the last conference call you talked about $12 billion over the next decade in airport construction spend. Does that change that number at all?

Edward Bastian

Not meaningfully. A little bit of that's in there. We are anticipating that that build-out is not going to be a substantial amount.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:21 am

dfdubflyer wrote:
The lack of even acknowledgement of T8 in this whole plan is bizarre to me

T8 isn’t mentioned by name, but they have been quite clear work is ongoing with other terminal operators and airlines:

VirginFlyer wrote:
Ezra wrote:
No mention of Delta in today's Cuomo presser, save for the inference that the T1 consortium's plan for redeveloping the Terminal 2 and 3 site was chosen over the Delta/IAT submsisson. But surely negotiations could not have advanced this far without some provision for -- and input from -- the airport's largest airline. So, what do you think Delta's play is? Are they angling to move non-alliance airlines over to the new T1 and take over all of T4 for themselves?

I would assume this is referring to Delta/IAT, and AA for that matter:

Additional discussions with multiple other airlines and terminal operators remain ongoing to further advance the goals of the Vision Plan.


V/F


I posted a graphic in the other thread from the video which shows an overview of the central terminal area, and shows some work on T8, although presumably since details are still being worked out this is probably quite preliminary and shouldn’t be taken as a definitive plan:

VirginFlyer wrote:
william wrote:
Looking at the present renderings, I guess all of the parking garages are gone to make room for a "central park"? Still trying to understand a two main ring roads.

If you go to the video on the governor’s website - https://youtu.be/1QzA0iDP8dk - and go to the 16:28 mark, there is a graphic which doesn’t appear to have been published elsewhere showing the two road systems. Interestingly, it appears to show all access now via the Van Wyck Expressway, with the JFK Expressway no longer there.

Even more interestingly, it shows a built out T8, with an additional north-eastern pier coming from the main building, somewhat mirroring the shape of the new T7. Perhaps an indication of what lies ahead? There appears to be empty space between the two, but they could equally be linked. It also shows a built out T4. Interesting that this rendering hasn’t been published elsewhere from what I have seen - presumably because the work for T4 and T8 is still ongoing and so those parts may change.

Image

V/F


V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:31 am

Summing up Delta: We just built JFK. We are building LGA at governors request (pressure). We will unify at T4, but dont expect us to throw billions more into NY airport building at this time.

And that’s a totally reasonable position from Delta.

How much do they really have to pay to play in New York?

I’m sure the LaGuardia rebuild wasn’t at the top of their list until the governor made a very public campaign to get them to match the new terminal in a unified way.

They know that despite being “under review” the LGA perimeter isnt going away in any meaningful way.

They essentially got pushed into the LGA rebuild while the paint was still wet at T4.
 
blockski
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:55 pm

The nature of JFK's separate ownership makes any consolidated announcement difficult, but the outlines of the bigger plan seem quite clear.

A new T1/2/3, linked to T4 - that's one giant complex, all connected.

A new T6/7, linked to T5 - that's another giant complex, all connected.

The implied bits are: continued build-out of both T4 and T8, although neither were announced. Doing this for T4 provides Delta and others with the required swing space; and the rendering shown in the roadway slide implies a design for T8 expansion that could be linked to the new T7 - both have concourses that back onto the JFK Expressway, meaning it wouldn't be too hard to link those two terminals across that road.

Add that all together and you'd have T1-4 linked together, as well as T5-8 potentially linked together.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:15 pm

blockski wrote:
The nature of JFK's separate ownership makes any consolidated announcement difficult, but the outlines of the bigger plan seem quite clear.

A new T1/2/3, linked to T4 - that's one giant complex, all connected.

A new T6/7, linked to T5 - that's another giant complex, all connected.

The implied bits are: continued build-out of both T4 and T8, although neither were announced. Doing this for T4 provides Delta and others with the required swing space; and the rendering shown in the roadway slide implies a design for T8 expansion that could be linked to the new T7 - both have concourses that back onto the JFK Expressway, meaning it wouldn't be too hard to link those two terminals across that road.

Add that all together and you'd have T1-4 linked together, as well as T5-8 potentially linked together.

One of the renderings showed a link between T4 and T5 as well, and it is not unreasonable to assume there could be a link from T1 to T8, albeit one which would need to cross the Van Wyck.

V/F
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LXA340
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:27 pm

The reconstruction of certain parts of JFK will probably finnally bring all the Alliance Airlines together. Hence T1 should finally only be for Star Alliance, then T4 would onlyy be for DL and it's Skyteam member airlines and T7 and T8 should be AA and Oneworld as it partially is already today. They question is, what happens to the various airlines such as Air France and Korean Air that co own T1 at present?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:51 pm

TOGA has recommitted to Terminal 1. That is where the TOGA airlines will remain. No questions about KE, JAL, AF and LH.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:40 pm

LXA340 wrote:
The reconstruction of certain parts of JFK will probably finnally bring all the Alliance Airlines together. Hence T1 should finally only be for Star Alliance, then T4 would onlyy be for DL and it's Skyteam member airlines and T7 and T8 should be AA and Oneworld as it partially is already today. They question is, what happens to the various airlines such as Air France and Korean Air that co own T1 at present?


They're not giving up ownership stake, especially at an expanded T1. For KE and AF. They get the advantage of a connection to T4 I guess.

JL is the only one that is still left hanging, but with AA pulling down their JFK op not sure how many connections there will be anyway.
 
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varsity
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:34 pm

I found it weirdly amusing that all the DL planes in the rendering were not just 747s, but looked to be first-gen 747s.
AB3, DC8, DC9, DH7, D10, E90, M80, M88, 320, 321, 330, 722, 737, 733, 734, 738, 747, 744, 757, 752, 753, 772
AA, AF, B6, CO, DL, EA, EI, FI, HP, KM, LX, MS, NW, OP, PA, TW, UA, US, VS, W9, WO, YX
 
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spinotter
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:55 pm

varsity wrote:
I found it weirdly amusing that all the DL planes in the rendering were not just 747s, but looked to be first-gen 747s.


If so, then at least the drawing was somewhat based in reality, albeit past reality, because DL had 747-100's in their fleet from 1970 until 1977

https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/10/delta-boeing-747-100/
 
747superliner
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:47 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
TOGA has recommitted to Terminal 1. That is where the TOGA airlines will remain. No questions about KE, JAL, AF and LH.


What do you mean by TOGA? It certainly can't be Takeoff Go Around in this case ;).

I'm not the one up-to-speed on JFK developments so this latest expansion is interesting. Wasn't T7 supposed to get a major overhaul or expansion of some sort? I keep seeing announcements every other year of some kind of terminal expansion at JFK so it's kind of confusing lol. I guess the Port Authority decided to consolidate several expansion projects into two main ones (north side and south side)?
 
blockski
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Re: JFK Rebuild - What's Delta Getting?

Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:59 pm

747superliner wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
TOGA has recommitted to Terminal 1. That is where the TOGA airlines will remain. No questions about KE, JAL, AF and LH.


What do you mean by TOGA? It certainly can't be Takeoff Go Around in this case ;).

I'm not the one up-to-speed on JFK developments so this latest expansion is interesting. Wasn't T7 supposed to get a major overhaul or expansion of some sort? I keep seeing announcements every other year of some kind of terminal expansion at JFK so it's kind of confusing lol. I guess the Port Authority decided to consolidate several expansion projects into two main ones (north side and south side)?


TOGA is the Terminal One Group Association, the legal name for the consortium that built and operates T1

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