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CLTRampRat
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Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:38 am

Apologies if it's been discussed, I looked and Googled, didn't see it mentioned;
Doug Parker says reducing legroom on his planes has made them more comfortable.

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/amer ... -2018.html
 
TucsonDave
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:22 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
Apologies if it's been discussed, I looked and Googled, didn't see it mentioned;
Doug Parker says reducing legroom on his planes has made them more comfortable.

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/amer ... -2018.html

Doug needs to set aside the Kool-Aid. This year we have flown long haul flights on 737-800s of both AA and SW. We found SW's version far more comfortable. Time to call Bravo Sierra on Doug.
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:41 pm

I wonder if he has "empty head syndrome" instead.

Will refuse to fly AA until he is out the door.
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
hooverman
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:54 pm

These people are from another planet. They have no idea how common people live.
 
Art at ISP
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:57 pm

Doug believes everything he says. I have met with him, and he is clueless. All he cares about is shareholders. The employees and customers be damned. He attended a meeting of frequent flyers and we knew more than he did about his operation. He is an expert at the high cost of cheap--stepping over dollars to pick up nickels.

In 2007 when he was at US Airways, customers were getting fed up....I met with their then director of consumer relations at Doug's request (after Deb Thompson left),and she offered to personally call 10 customers who were high spend (average spend 18K per year), and work through their issues. I gave her 60 names to choose from--she called NONE. So I negotiated a status match with CO, and US lost over 300 high value customers overnight....estimated revenue lost between $5 and $10M per year (I know a drop in the bucket), but it sent a message which was subsequently ignored.

I am surprised the lavs don't have a coin slot on AA....
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:12 pm

Uh oh...Doug's been drinking again.

These are the times you recognize leadership vs. manager. Doug is clearly not a strong leader. I think if you look at the comments by B6's president about adding basic economy and why that direction is needed, it shows a clear explanation of why they having to do something that is against their brand. Right or wrong I think it was laid out well. Doug, conversely, shows a lack of understanding on how to get a message out effectively. It's why recent investor calls have not been as smooth. He can't articulate a strategy. In this case he can't articulate why, yes, the environment onboard has changed but it has also brought benefits.
 
ei a330-200
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:12 pm

I'm not going to claim that AA is comfortable, but I'm slightly irked by the article. It doesn't even attempt to explain the logic or "math" that Doug Parker is using here. I'll attempt to:

Let's say that the new seats are 3" thinner than the old (that seems to be the standard number used by airlines then changing seats to slimline) and pitch is reduced 1" (from 31" to 30", as referenced in the article). Because pitch is the space between identical spots on seats, customers would still have 2" of additional space, despite the reduction. So Doug could honestly make the argument.

Personally, I've always thought that measuring knee room (the distance between the end of the seat pan and the back of the seat back in front of you) would be a much more accurate of assessing passenger space and comfort.

Just my $0.02
 
N292UX
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:15 pm

Not sure what fantasy world he is living in but okay...
 
Redwood839
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:18 pm

The 738's and A32x's with no IFE on AA are fine for the distances they use them. I can manage LAX-MIA and PHX-MIA bi weekly just fine. The A321s with IFE's in Y I really just can't stand. They're just impossible to survive.
 
flyboy80
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:21 pm

I don't understand this argument. When talking main cabin, are any of the US legacy's "comfortable" in the main cabin? AA/UA/DL are pretty standard at 30" of pitch and "slimline" seats have been installed over the past 5 or 6 years adding seats to every mainline aircraft. Delta's 757-200 now seat 199 and I believe at one point they were 174 and I certainly don't think new overhead bins and blue lights have made those more comfortable, why is AA so bad and what's the big issue with AA's 737-800 and -8M, How bad can it be? United and Delta have been flying 737-900s with more passengers and the tiny lavatories for years now.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:22 pm

Doug doesn't spend much time on the newer denser planes.

First class isn't even that "comfy". The seats are so lightweight and no padding. You let me know when you see Doug in economy minus on a transcon.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:35 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
Apologies if it's been discussed, I looked and Googled, didn't see it mentioned;
Doug Parker says reducing legroom on his planes has made them more comfortable.

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/amer ... -2018.html


That isn't actually what he said. What he said - and I cannot believe I am defending Doug Parker, but there you go - is:


Doug Parker wrote:
That 30-in. pitch, having done it myself, is much more comfortable than our existing 31-in. pitch on an MD-80. It feels like a much better product ... I think the whole definition of pitch needs to be better understood.

The fact is that a seat is an inch [narrower] and more comfortable ... The traditional measure of simply pitch, and comparing pitch to aircraft that have very different seats, doesn't really give the customer what they need to know about the amount of space they have.


What he is actually saying is that the new 737MAX are more comfortable than the MD-80, despite the on-paper reduction in seat pitch, and that measuring the seat pitch isn't necessarily an accurate measure for comfort.

You can't really argue with that, but it is spin, because what he doesn't say, and what would be an interesting comparison, is the 737MAX vs and un-reconfigured 737-823.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
hz747300
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:37 pm

AA serves Diet Dr Pepper so it's still all good. And if you want to try cramped, try Veuling, haha.

I agree though, if someone can post a cellphone snap of Doug flying 5+ in coach, I'd love to see it.
Keep on truckin'...
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:44 pm

vhtje wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
Apologies if it's been discussed, I looked and Googled, didn't see it mentioned;
Doug Parker says reducing legroom on his planes has made them more comfortable.

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/amer ... -2018.html


That isn't actually what he said. What he said - and I cannot believe I am defending Doug Parker, but there you go - is:


Doug Parker wrote:
That 30-in. pitch, having done it myself, is much more comfortable than our existing 31-in. pitch on an MD-80. It feels like a much better product ... I think the whole definition of pitch needs to be better understood.

The fact is that a seat is an inch [narrower] and more comfortable ... The traditional measure of simply pitch, and comparing pitch to aircraft that have very different seats, doesn't really give the customer what they need to know about the amount of space they have.


What he is actually saying is that the new 737MAX are more comfortable than the MD-80, despite the on-paper reduction in seat pitch, and that measuring the seat pitch isn't necessarily an accurate measure for comfort.

You can't really argue with that, but it is spin, because what he doesn't say, and what would be an interesting comparison, is the 737MAX vs and un-reconfigured 737-823.


There are people, including myself, who thought that the 2-seat side in AA’s MD-80s were the most comfortable domestic coach seats. This was discussed on A.net years ago.

I flew on an AS 738 and an AA 738 weeks apart last year. The AS ride was noticeably more comfortable and roomy. AA was cramped. That was before changing to 30” seat pitch, I assume.

This continues to be a creeping reduction in comfort. AA introduced 30” seat pitch on their new A319s stating that it was only for short haul routes, but higher pitch on other models for longer routes. Next thing you know, you have 30” pitch on routes like SEA-MIA and DFW-BOG. I don’t exactly see fares going down either.
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:53 pm

vhtje wrote:
That isn't actually what he said. What he said - and I cannot believe I am defending Doug Parker, but there you go - is:


Doug Parker wrote:
That 30-in. pitch, having done it myself, is much more comfortable than our existing 31-in. pitch on an MD-80. It feels like a much better product ... I think the whole definition of pitch needs to be better understood.

The fact is that a seat is an inch [narrower] and more comfortable ... The traditional measure of simply pitch, and comparing pitch to aircraft that have very different seats, doesn't really give the customer what they need to know about the amount of space they have.


What he is actually saying is that the new 737MAX are more comfortable than the MD-80, despite the on-paper reduction in seat pitch, and that measuring the seat pitch isn't necessarily an accurate measure for comfort.

You can't really argue with that, but it is spin, because what he doesn't say, and what would be an interesting comparison, is the 737MAX vs and un-reconfigured 737-823.



Absolutely fair on your part. I apologize.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:17 pm

The seating pitch should be fine for most people. Like other a.netters explained the seat pitch will be fine but I'm not sure about the seating width and padding on the seat. I'm more concerned about the tiny bathroom size, its tiny.
 
incitatus
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:59 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Doug doesn't spend much time on the newer denser planes.

First class isn't even that "comfy". The seats are so lightweight and no padding. You let me know when you see Doug in economy minus on a transcon.


I am not going to get into the merit of the thread - these planes are probably cramped like most are. For the record, I had a friend flying from Buenos Aires to the US and he said Doug Parker was in seating in coach a few rows from him.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:03 pm

vhtje wrote:
What he is actually saying is that the new 737MAX are more comfortable than the MD-80, despite the on-paper reduction in seat pitch, and that measuring the seat pitch isn't necessarily an accurate measure for comfort.


A nice technicality, like stating a prostate exam is more comfortable than a root canal.
 
NZ321
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:07 pm

Actually I did AA trans con DCA-PHX-SEA a couple of months back in business. It wasn't flash and as an international traveler in business I couldn't even access the lounge without paying a large fee.I was miffed. But the crew were okay. Better than United IMHO. Even so, I decided to stay clear of AA in future. Should have gone for the AS flight at an earlier time but pleased for a break from UA my all time least favourite US domestic carrier. The seat pitch was poor to put it mildly.
Plane mad!
 
planecane
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:07 pm

ei a330-200 wrote:
I'm not going to claim that AA is comfortable, but I'm slightly irked by the article. It doesn't even attempt to explain the logic or "math" that Doug Parker is using here. I'll attempt to:

Let's say that the new seats are 3" thinner than the old (that seems to be the standard number used by airlines then changing seats to slimline) and pitch is reduced 1" (from 31" to 30", as referenced in the article). Because pitch is the space between identical spots on seats, customers would still have 2" of additional space, despite the reduction. So Doug could honestly make the argument.

Personally, I've always thought that measuring knee room (the distance between the end of the seat pan and the back of the seat back in front of you) would be a much more accurate of assessing passenger space and comfort.

Just my $0.02


Having flown within a couple of days of each other on AA's 737 with the old and new interior config, it honestly felt like I had the same amount of room. The issue is that the "current" configuration is tighter than ideal. All I know is that on a WN 737, if I drop something on the floor by my feet, I can bend over and pick it up. On an AA 737 in either configuration, it is impossible to do. I have to slide to the adjacent seen to be able to get down to the floor.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:43 pm

hooverman wrote:
These people are from another planet. They have no idea how common people live.


I'm very curious what exactly you mean by the above. Who is so lacking in knowledge about the common people, and how does that affect this discussion of whether closer quarters might be more comfortable?
 
hooverman
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:25 pm

spinotter wrote:
hooverman wrote:
These people are from another planet. They have no idea how common people live.


I'm very curious what exactly you mean by the above. Who is so lacking in knowledge about the common people, and how does that affect this discussion of whether closer quarters might be more comfortable?


Corporate managers seem to loose sight of reality after some time. They have no empathy with common people.
Of course there are exceptions.
 
Tack
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:43 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
I don't understand this argument. When talking main cabin, are any of the US legacy's "comfortable" in the main cabin? AA/UA/DL are pretty standard at 30" of pitch and "slimline" seats have been installed over the past 5 or 6 years adding seats to every mainline aircraft. Delta's 757-200 now seat 199 and I believe at one point they were 174 and I certainly don't think new overhead bins and blue lights have made those more comfortable, why is AA so bad and what's the big issue with AA's 737-800 and -8M, How bad can it be? United and Delta have been flying 737-900s with more passengers and the tiny lavatories for years now.


The 738? Not bad at all. I’m EP so I’ve been in all the seats on the 800. First class is actually very comfortable including the Airbus Jets. Especially compared to UA FC. However the MAX? It’s a torture rack everywhere. I’m 6’5 and I don’t care what DP says. The MAX layout sucks. The FC seats don’t even allow for under seat storage of a back pack due to some “seat pan” for want of a better description slung under there. And the loss of that just 1” inch of space is, in fact noticeable. Same goes for every seat in YC. Even the MCE seats are tight. Once the MAX config is adopted fleet wide I expect I’ll be on the move to find a new carrier. It’s too bad, I’m one of those that has zero probs with AA. I find them as good or better than UA/DL/WN and the AAdvantage program still has a lot of value.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:03 pm

Tack, welcome to a.nut. AA's attaction for me (EP) is discounted F on domestic triple-7 routes. Much better on the HNL/CONUS pairs I fly, and I prefer the 738 on the CONUS tag over DL's maddogs (738 means less competition for the "deep side" of the overhead bins on the maddog).
Last edited by WPvsMW on Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
musman9853
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:07 pm

vhtje wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
Apologies if it's been discussed, I looked and Googled, didn't see it mentioned;
Doug Parker says reducing legroom on his planes has made them more comfortable.

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/amer ... -2018.html


That isn't actually what he said. What he said - and I cannot believe I am defending Doug Parker, but there you go - is:


Doug Parker wrote:
That 30-in. pitch, having done it myself, is much more comfortable than our existing 31-in. pitch on an MD-80. It feels like a much better product ... I think the whole definition of pitch needs to be better understood.

The fact is that a seat is an inch [narrower] and more comfortable ... The traditional measure of simply pitch, and comparing pitch to aircraft that have very different seats, doesn't really give the customer what they need to know about the amount of space they have.


What he is actually saying is that the new 737MAX are more comfortable than the MD-80, despite the on-paper reduction in seat pitch, and that measuring the seat pitch isn't necessarily an accurate measure for comfort.

You can't really argue with that, but it is spin, because what he doesn't say, and what would be an interesting comparison, is the 737MAX vs and un-reconfigured 737-823.



i buy it 100%. put me in a densified 737max over a mad dog, 757, or 767 anyday. there is more to passenger comfort that the 1/2 inch difference.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
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neomax
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:09 pm

planecane wrote:
All I know is that on a WN 737, if I drop something on the floor by my feet, I can bend over and pick it up. On an AA 737 in either configuration, it is impossible to do. I have to slide to the adjacent seen to be able to get down to the floor.


This is by far the best description I’ve heard. Agree 100%.
 
N649DL
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:46 pm

In a really odd way he's actually right. I'll explain why:

I live around LAX and used to live near DEN. Over the last 2 years when DL couldn't fly me at the right price or completely out of the way I bit my tongue and chose AA. I did this with the criteria that I used to be elite with them (and they sucked back in the recession days), they may have got better with the merger, and I'll choose the devil I know then one I don't especially in DEN (UA, F9, WN) for a nonstop to say DFW. At this point for a nonstop on DEN-DFW I was done with UA completely.

Both ways were on aircraft with IFE. The 737s overhead were fun as they broadcasted inflight messages that he F/As would usually do and they still had looped radio in the armrest. That said it was tight as hell. The seats were comfortable and had the new covers but the configuration was so tight that the F/A's seemed to have issues moving the carts down the isles.

In the end, comfortable especially with the dated IFE but on a 4+ hour flight that would've been brutal. Flights were on-time and bags delivered timely. To me I'll take this over UA any day of the week.
 
Samrnpage
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:54 pm

N649DL wrote:
In a really odd way he's actually right. I'll explain why:

I live around LAX and used to live near DEN. Over the last 2 years when DL couldn't fly me at the right price or completely out of the way I bit my tongue and chose AA. I did this with the criteria that I used to be elite with them (and they sucked back in the recession days), they may have got better with the merger, and I'll choose the devil I know then one I don't especially in DEN (UA, F9, WN) for a nonstop to say DFW. At this point for a nonstop on DEN-DFW I was done with UA completely.

Both ways were on aircraft with IFE. The 737s overhead were fun as they broadcasted inflight messages that he F/As would usually do and they still had looped radio in the armrest. That said it was tight as hell. The seats were comfortable and had the new covers but the configuration was so tight that the F/A's seemed to have issues moving the carts down the isles.

In the end, comfortable especially with the dated IFE but on a 4+ hour flight that would've been brutal. Flights were on-time and bags delivered timely. To me I'll take this over UA any day of the week.


I didnt understand this at all, are you saying it is comfortable or not ?
 
N649DL
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:56 pm

Samrnpage wrote:
N649DL wrote:
In a really odd way he's actually right. I'll explain why:

I live around LAX and used to live near DEN. Over the last 2 years when DL couldn't fly me at the right price or completely out of the way I bit my tongue and chose AA. I did this with the criteria that I used to be elite with them (and they sucked back in the recession days), they may have got better with the merger, and I'll choose the devil I know then one I don't especially in DEN (UA, F9, WN) for a nonstop to say DFW. At this point for a nonstop on DEN-DFW I was done with UA completely.

Both ways were on aircraft with IFE. The 737s overhead were fun as they broadcasted inflight messages that he F/As would usually do and they still had looped radio in the armrest. That said it was tight as hell. The seats were comfortable and had the new covers but the configuration was so tight that the F/A's seemed to have issues moving the carts down the isles.

In the end, comfortable especially with the dated IFE but on a 4+ hour flight that would've been brutal. Flights were on-time and bags delivered timely. To me I'll take this over UA any day of the week.


I didnt understand this at all, are you saying it is comfortable or not ?


I sat in my seat and listened to the 80s station for 90 minutes and didn't get up. I was comfortable but for others like the F/A's it didn't look like it.
 
TangoandCash
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:22 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
There are people, including myself, who thought that the 2-seat side in AA’s MD-80s were the most comfortable domestic coach seats. This was discussed on A.net years ago.



Agree completely--at least on the MD-80s, there was some semblance of proper curvature and a hint of padding, along with a true seat back pouch large enough to put a magazine in. The new slimline seats are like sitting on boards, and good luck getting anything into those silly net seat back pouches.

I may actually miss the Mad Dog when the last one flies off to the desert.
 
spacecadet
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:26 pm

The narrowest seat you could make would be one out of plywood. That doesn't make it comfortable.

His argument is essentially saying "we removed a bunch of padding and now our seats are more comfortable as a result!" That doesn't pass the smell test.

The mistake is in thinking it's *all* about pitch. But it's about pitch *too*.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
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stl07
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:29 pm

Not gonna lie, my long F9 trip was better than my long AA trip that I didn't get F on
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
737max8
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:45 pm

AA coach seats are far more uncomfortable than any carrier I've flown around the world, including Vueling.

I'll stick with WN and 32" pitch all day long on the 737-800 and MAX8. Seems even greater with the new seat design.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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Chemist
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:03 pm

737max8 wrote:
AA coach seats are far more uncomfortable than any carrier I've flown around the world, including Vueling.

I'll stick with WN and 32" pitch all day long on the 737-800 and MAX8. Seems even greater with the new seat design.


My current job assignment has me flying repeatedly LAX-PHL. I did fly AA once but now I'm choosing WN with a connection. I like the extra room and I get points that can be redeemed on any flight with no blackout dates.
And I'm lifetime AA Gold Million-Miler.
 
winginit
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:20 pm

neomax wrote:
planecane wrote:
All I know is that on a WN 737, if I drop something on the floor by my feet, I can bend over and pick it up. On an AA 737 in either configuration, it is impossible to do. I have to slide to the adjacent seen to be able to get down to the floor.


This is by far the best description I’ve heard. Agree 100%.


Wow, I love this, and wholeheartedly agree. Get that over to the FAA as a consideration now that they've been tasked with regulating seat pitch.
 
AAplat4life
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:32 pm

Yes, the vast consensus is that the new seats are awful, But will the passengers go elsewhere? A lot of anecdotal evidence that loyal customers are leaving, but the planes are full even though management admits it has a problem attracting premium revenue. Making the product worse for customers is not helping the stock price much. On a related note, this has been a pretty bad week for the stock.
 
hondah35
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:40 pm

TucsonDave wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
Apologies if it's been discussed, I looked and Googled, didn't see it mentioned;
Doug Parker says reducing legroom on his planes has made them more comfortable.

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/amer ... -2018.html

Doug needs to set aside the Kool-Aid. This year we have flown long haul flights on 737-800s of both AA and SW. We found SW's version far more comfortable. Time to call Bravo Sierra on Doug.


Unfortunately, history suggests that when he makes asinine statements such as these he's been drinking more than just Kool-Aid
 
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tlecam
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Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:43 pm

It’s just such a weird (and unnecessary) argument for him to make - “The whole definition of pitch needs to be better understood.”

If he wants to say - he we reduced pitch, but the new seats are more comfortable for reasons x, y and z- go for it. I’m not sure I’ll buy it but whatever. But pitch, at the end of the day, is math. If my body doesn’t fit in the 30” seat, it’s not going to be comfortable.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
oneskyjet
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:53 pm

This is an extremely misleading thread starter extrapolated from an absurd article by Bill Murphy.

Doug Parker never said "our crowded planes are much more comfortable".

What he did say, and it happens to be true, is that new generation slimline seats at 30 inches of pitch provide more legroom than older generation seats at 31 or even 32 inch pitch older generation seats.

Pitch measures the distance at the same point on an armrest on a column of seats.
Leg and knee comfort is determined by the distance between the space where the passenger's lower back rests on his seat and the back of the seat in front of him.
The difference is the thickness of the seat itself as well as its shape.

New generation seats use denser, thinner padding and curvature to maximize the knee and legroom of passengers. The result is that a 30 inch current generation seat is more comfortable than an older seat at higher pitch.

The statement happens to be true. It is irresponsible of the original article author, Bill Murphy, and this thread's original poster to take Parker's comments out of context. Notwithstanding all the comments maligning Doug Parker's sanity, there is a simple truth. Passengers are voting with their feet and increasingly choosing the discomfort of 28 inches of pitch on ULCCs such as Frontier, Spirit and Allegiant over the relative comfort of legacy carrier offerings.
Customers want lower fares. In order to produce lower fares, legacy carriers are having to unbundle fares and put more seats on planes.
 
hondah35
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 1:55 pm

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:10 pm

oneskyjet wrote:
This is an extremely misleading thread starter extrapolated from an absurd article by Bill Murphy.

Doug Parker never said "our crowded planes are much more comfortable".

What he did say, and it happens to be true, is that new generation slimline seats at 30 inches of pitch provide more legroom than older generation seats at 31 or even 32 inch pitch older generation seats.

Pitch measures the distance at the same point on an armrest on a column of seats.
Leg and knee comfort is determined by the distance between the space where the passenger's lower back rests on his seat and the back of the seat in front of him.
The difference is the thickness of the seat itself as well as its shape.

New generation seats use denser, thinner padding and curvature to maximize the knee and legroom of passengers. The result is that a 30 inch current generation seat is more comfortable than an older seat at higher pitch.

The statement happens to be true. It is irresponsible of the original article author, Bill Murphy, and this thread's original poster to take Parker's comments out of context. Notwithstanding all the comments maligning Doug Parker's sanity, there is a simple truth. Passengers are voting with their feet and increasingly choosing the discomfort of 28 inches of pitch on ULCCs such as Frontier, Spirit and Allegiant over the relative comfort of legacy carrier offerings.
Customers want lower fares. In order to produce lower fares, legacy carriers are having to unbundle fares and put more seats on planes.



Yes, but that's the typical mentality of the airlines these days. Sure, legroom is important, but the airlines latch onto that one dimension of comfort and if they are able to preserve that dimension or even add to it as they squeeze 47 more seats onto the plane, they declare it a success. Legroom is important, but like others have said I want to be able to bend down and access my bag under the seat in front of me, or not have to stare at the person's head in front of me that is shoved into my face when they recline. Acting like the redesigned planes are better when in reality this is all done in the name of squeezing a few more cents of profit at the expense of customer comfort, is in my mind, disingenuous.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5366
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:31 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
Apologies if it's been discussed, I looked and Googled, didn't see it mentioned;
Doug Parker says reducing legroom on his planes has made them more comfortable.

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/amer ... -2018.html

*face palm*

Less talking more drinking Doug.
 
User avatar
sergegva
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:12 pm

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:54 pm

oneskyjet wrote:
New generation seats use denser, thinner padding and curvature to maximize the knee and legroom of passengers. The result is that a 30 inch current generation seat is more comfortable than an older seat at higher pitch.


Reading the messages from members over the past few years, I don't have that impression. It seems to me that for the majority of them, the slimline seats are less comfortable than the "regular" ones.

Whatever the airlines may say, seat pitch measuring remains a good way of estimating on-board comfort, because it combines, in a way, two parameters: the legroom and the seat comfort itself. If legroom measurement were to become the new standard, we would end up sitting on 5 mm bare carbon plates in no time. And we will be told "this 25'' pitch is not so bad! Try it, you'll see!" :lol:

oneskyjet wrote:
Customers want lower fares. In order to produce lower fares, legacy carriers are having to unbundle fares and put more seats on planes.


Frequent travellers often do not have the choice of airline. Occasional travellers do not have the slightest idea of the pitch in the plane they are going to buy the ticket for. Let's discuss this again the day when the comfort of the seat will be indicated next to the price of the ticket. As far as I know, the sale of rows with extra legroom is working well with low-cost airlines.
 
Lexy
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:05 am

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:04 am

He fly’s Economy on all his flights. He also has to purchase his tickets like any normal traveler. He is not offered flight benefits like a regular employee.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
FlyMKG
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:49 am

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:27 am

No wonder AA is in last place with no real hope of catching the leader.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:30 am

incitatus wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Doug doesn't spend much time on the newer denser planes.

First class isn't even that "comfy". The seats are so lightweight and no padding. You let me know when you see Doug in economy minus on a transcon.


I am not going to get into the merit of the thread - these planes are probably cramped like most are. For the record, I had a friend flying from Buenos Aires to the US and he said Doug Parker was in seating in coach a few rows from him.


Not at all comparable. As 777 are used on Buenos Aires & maybe the A330.
It's an 18" wide seat at 31-33" on a A330 or 17" wide seat at 31-32."
It's a 17" wide seat at 30" on a 737.
We want to see him transcon on a seat around 2" closer together on the same length flight. Bet he would not like it.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:36 am

spinotter wrote:
hooverman wrote:
These people are from another planet. They have no idea how common people live.


I'm very curious what exactly you mean by the above. Who is so lacking in knowledge about the common people, and how does that affect this discussion of whether closer quarters might be more comfortable?


Many execs & politicians that live the high life that 95% of the population will never see. They do not hang out with those below them & are totally lacking knowledge most of the time.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 949
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:32 am

There are people, including myself, who thought that the 2-seat side in AA’s MD-80s were the most comfortable domestic coach seats. This was discussed on A.net years ago.


I completely agree! I used to fly AA and CO Mad Dogs quite regularly, and the two seat side was primo, even in coach. I really miss the Mad Dogs!!!

Having flown several 737s from several airlines over the past couple of years, I'm not a fan of the 737 - slimline seat combination. They're just not comfy and I wind up getting off of the plane feeling like a pretzel, back aching. AA in particular has not been my friend in this regard!
 
pgh234
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 12:48 pm

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:11 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Tack, welcome to a.nut. AA's attaction for me (EP) is discounted F on domestic triple-7 routes. Much better on the HNL/CONUS pairs I fly, and I prefer the 738 on the CONUS tag over DL's maddogs (738 means less competition for the "deep side" of the overhead bins on the maddog).


My wife and I will take all of DL's two seat planes (MD-88,90,717's,767's,330's) any day over a 737, 787, 777 where we share with a stranger. We frequently pay more to DL for the privilege..
 
pgh234
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 12:48 pm

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:15 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Tack, welcome to a.nut. AA's attaction for me (EP) is discounted F on domestic triple-7 routes. Much better on the HNL/CONUS pairs I fly, and I prefer the 738 on the CONUS tag over DL's maddogs (738 means less competition for the "deep side" of the overhead bins on the maddog).


My wife and I will take all of DL's two seat planes (MD-88,90,717's,767's,330's) any day over a 737, 787, 777 where we share with a stranger. We frequently pay more to DL for the privilege..
 
User avatar
fsx98
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:57 am

Re: Doug Parker: "Our crowded planes are much more comfortable."

Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:41 am

737max8 wrote:
AA coach seats are far more uncomfortable than any carrier I've flown around the world, including Vueling.

I'll stick with WN and 32" pitch all day long on the 737-800 and MAX8. Seems even greater with the new seat design.


I have flown AA as my primary carrier and seldom do I have any problems with the airline; however, in some of the flights I've taken on AA, the seats are very uncomfortable in their CRJs, the legacy US 757s, and to a lesser extent, their B738s (non-MAX model), based on hip room; in most cases, the legroom was okay. I have recently flown the MD80 and their seats may be outdated, but at least comfortable. Legroom is plentiful, IMO, but you're right about WN's seating, as I have recently flown with them a week ago and their seats are a bit more comfortable with a little more hip room and legroom.

The only other airline that is much more uncomfortable than AA's, in my experience, is NK, in which both legroom and hip room are much crammed. NK is okay for a short flight of around two hours or less, but I had only flown their A319s, which have outdated seating. I have no say on the A320 or A321s, but nonetheless, I have no intention in flying with them in the near future. I wouldn't mind flying AA again for convenient flying out of my hometown in lieu of driving two hours to either MCI or STL, but WN is now my go-to airline (and also my secondary carrier) for any leisure traveling, as I had better experiences with them.

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