hooverman
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AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:20 am

PHL - AMS has been around for a long time and was always considered (on A.net) a marginal route that was strugeling. However many routes from PHL where cancelled but AMS is still around. They even upgraded to 767 from a 757. I believe it is a seasonal upgrade but correct me if I am wrong.

DFW - AMS was started after KLM threw in the towel. It is a seasonal route starting with a 767 and was upgraded to a 772 this year.

My questions are:

-Can we expect AA opening new routes, if they can get slots?
-Was the Anet myth about PHL - AMS being a marginal route in fact a Anet myth? Hence the 767 upgrade and the route still being active?
-How is DFW - AMS doing and can we expect a year round service?

Would love to hear your feedback.

Excuse in advance for (spelling) errors
 
Detroit313
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:55 am

DFW - AMS did great this summer on a 777-200 with Premium Economy.

They need to bring 787s to PHL. It would be nice if PHL - AMS is on a nice 787 instead of 767.

Could ORD - AMS or CLT - AMS happen in the future?
 
hooverman
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:10 am

Detroit313 wrote:
Could ORD - AMS or CLT - AMS happen in the future?


I think ORD - AMS would happen on UA before AA because UA is bigger at AMS but would be nice though
 
FlyingHollander
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:17 am

AA on ORD-AMS won't happen. Both KL and UA already serve the route and AA doesn't do much TATL from ORD anyway.

If a destination is added I guess it would be CLT. North Carolina is unserved from AMS and CLT is great for connections.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:18 am

hooverman wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Could ORD - AMS or CLT - AMS happen in the future?


I think ORD - AMS would happen on UA before AA because UA is bigger at AMS but would be nice though


UA flies ORD-AMS daily and has for years.
 
hooverman
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:20 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
hooverman wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Could ORD - AMS or CLT - AMS happen in the future?


I think ORD - AMS would happen on UA before AA because UA is bigger at AMS but would be nice though


UA flies ORD-AMS daily and has for years.


Oops I knew that..
 
Bigant0408
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:55 am

I wonder overall if AA “struggles” in Amsterdam being that it’s a Skyteam fortress since they struggle in Germany against Star Alliance. Hence only two routes with one of them being seasonal. PHL will eventually get a 787 once the 767 are retired and I think DFW should go from seasonal to year round. Only other route I can think of to add would be CTL as others mentioned since no competition.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
factsonly
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:35 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
I wonder overall if AA “struggles” in Amsterdam being that it’s a Skyteam fortress since they struggle in Germany against Star Alliance.


If true, how come the other 'non-SKYTEAM' carrier United can do 5x daily routes USA-AMS in 2019 from: SFO, ORD, IAH, IAD, EWR.

Could it be that AA's European partner BA is less strong on the European continent than almighty LH is for UA ??

I wonder....
 
Bigant0408
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:23 pm

factsonly wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I wonder overall if AA “struggles” in Amsterdam being that it’s a Skyteam fortress since they struggle in Germany against Star Alliance.


If true, how come the other 'non-SKYTEAM' carrier United can do 5x daily routes USA-AMS in 2019 from: SFO, ORD, IAH, IAD, EWR.

Could it be that AA's European partner BA is less strong on the European continent than almighty LH is for UA ??

I wonder....


Good point in regards to United’s hubs to AM. Only thing I can think of is that all of there hubs you mentioned are destinations with a lot of O/D traffic while Some of AA hubs depends on connections (CTL, PHX and PHL) but of course who knows the real reason of limited service.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
superjeff
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:38 pm

factsonly wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I wonder overall if AA “struggles” in Amsterdam being that it’s a Skyteam fortress since they struggle in Germany against Star Alliance.


If true, how come the other 'non-SKYTEAM' carrier United can do 5x daily routes USA-AMS in 2019 from: SFO, ORD, IAH, IAD, EWR.

Could it be that AA's European partner BA is less strong on the European continent than almighty LH is for UA ??

I wonder....


Several years ago, American made a conscious decision to leverage their JV partner British Airways' massive London hub, and route a lot of service to places like Amsterdam, Paris, Munich, Berlin, Vienna, etc. over London. Because of the nature of the clock, you're still a bit limited (most flights from the U.S arrive in the early morning, so there may be one or two viable connecting flights), but I suspect that American's market share into places like AMS, FRA, etc, is stronger than you'd expect. Their passengers are just arriving and departing via code shares with BA, AY, IB, etc.
 
hooverman
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:00 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
I wonder overall if AA “struggles” in Amsterdam being that it’s a Skyteam fortress since they struggle in Germany against Star Alliance.


Well I was actually questioning the fact they are struggling. I don’t think they are because the route is still there and being upgraded.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:37 pm

hooverman wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I wonder overall if AA “struggles” in Amsterdam being that it’s a Skyteam fortress since they struggle in Germany against Star Alliance.


Well I was actually questioning the fact they are struggling. I don’t think they are because the route is still there and being upgraded.


You’re probably right I was just thinking more so as to why they only have two hubs serving this route and not more of not all of them.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
hooverman
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:50 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
hooverman wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I wonder overall if AA “struggles” in Amsterdam being that it’s a Skyteam fortress since they struggle in Germany against Star Alliance.


Well I was actually questioning the fact they are struggling. I don’t think they are because the route is still there and being upgraded.


You’re probably right I was just thinking more so as to why they only have two hubs serving this route and not more of not all of them.


AA never served AMS untill they inherited the US Airways PHL route a few years ago. The opening of DFW was a surprise (to me). I have always seen AA as conservative opening new international routes to non allianced hubs.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:03 pm

factsonly wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I wonder overall if AA “struggles” in Amsterdam being that it’s a Skyteam fortress since they struggle in Germany against Star Alliance.


If true, how come the other 'non-SKYTEAM' carrier United can do 5x daily routes USA-AMS in 2019 from: SFO, ORD, IAH, IAD, EWR.

Could it be that AA's European partner BA is less strong on the European continent than almighty LH is for UA ??

I wonder....


I wondered that too! There are definitely some transatlantic quirks out there. I would have to venture a guess and say that enough business flying is done into AMS on United to drive these flights from five different hubs, especially since connecting traffic at AMS onto United flights isn't going to be much. If premium demand is there, then the route planners say "it's going to happen". If the premium traffic comes and goes, then the flights might disappear.

Now, as to my own personal speculation: AA kind of withdrew from European routes in the JV with British Airways, with many flights one checks to Europe on aa.com are via LHR. Perhaps they are satisfied routing everyone they can through LHR and sharing the costs with BA. I don't know. Same with United - lots to AMS, lots to LHR, and lots to Germany, but where else in Europe has more than just a "spoke" or two to the U.S. on UA? Even Stuttgart only has a Delta transatlantic flight to Atlanta - the mighty Star Alliance couldn't make a STG-EWR flight in Germany work, so I am speculating again that very specific local demand plays a big part in Europe-US flights.

Also, remember the correct term is "upgauge" or "downgauge" when a smaller or larger plane is substituted. Upgrade or downgrade refers to class of service on board.
 
Boston757
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:45 pm

LAA has been flying PHL-AMS for several years, However, it now will be crew with LUS PHL crews,as of NOV because of the Oct. FOI completion with FA's. Being able to be fortunate to fly that trip for the few months I would talk with
the AMS agents. so my last trip, they told me DFW-AMS is doing exceptionally well, beyond expectations. Lots of cargo so it was up gagged to a 777-200. AA was going back and forth with making DFW year round and PHL seasonal vice versa. Anyway, they obviously kept the original plan. However the agent said that its can change and there may be a 3rd AMS trip in the near future. Love to See a 3rd flight to AMS but ORD wasn't mentioned.
 
hooverman
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:58 pm

Boston757 wrote:
LAA has been flying PHL-AMS for several years, However, it now will be crew with LUS PHL crews,as of NOV because of the Oct. FOI completion with FA's. Being able to be fortunate to fly that trip for the few months I would talk with
the AMS agents. so my last trip, they told me DFW-AMS is doing exceptionally well, beyond expectations. Lots of cargo so it was up gagged to a 777-200. AA was going back and forth with making DFW year round and PHL seasonal vice versa. Anyway, they obviously kept the original plan. However the agent said that its can change and there may be a 3rd AMS trip in the near future. Love to See a 3rd flight to AMS but ORD wasn't mentioned.


Good to hear that DFW is doing well.
What other hubs besides the already mentioned CLT could be the third destination? PHX or MIA?
 
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chepos
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:04 pm

If a 3rd hub were ever to be added out of AMS it would be CLT.
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flyguy84
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:29 pm

Boston757 wrote:
LAA has been flying PHL-AMS for several years, However, it now will be crew with LUS PHL crews,as of NOV because of the Oct. FOI completion with FA's. Being able to be fortunate to fly that trip for the few months I would talk with
the AMS agents. so my last trip, they told me DFW-AMS is doing exceptionally well, beyond expectations. Lots of cargo so it was up gagged to a 777-200. AA was going back and forth with making DFW year round and PHL seasonal vice versa. Anyway, they obviously kept the original plan. However the agent said that its can change and there may be a 3rd AMS trip in the near future. Love to See a 3rd flight to AMS but ORD wasn't mentioned.

Because the contracted ground agent has all the inside information... :roll:
SFO
 
CLT704
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:48 pm

I would not be shocked to see a summer seasonal CLT-AMS added sooner rather than later imo. Obviously, S19 is out the question but maybe S20/S21 could see it.
 
hooverman
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:59 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

Also, remember the correct term is "upgauge" or "downgauge" when a smaller or larger plane is substituted. Upgrade or downgrade refers to class of service on board.


Going from a AA 767 to 772 seems like an upgrade to me ;)
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:39 pm

hooverman wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

Also, remember the correct term is "upgauge" or "downgauge" when a smaller or larger plane is substituted. Upgrade or downgrade refers to class of service on board.


Going from a AA 767 to 772 seems like an upgrade to me ;)


In the old days, I might agree, but with "slim seating" these days, I'd have to know the seating before saying for sure!
 
soflaflyer
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:55 pm

factsonly wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I wonder overall if AA “struggles” in Amsterdam being that it’s a Skyteam fortress since they struggle in Germany against Star Alliance.


If true, how come the other 'non-SKYTEAM' carrier United can do 5x daily routes USA-AMS in 2019 from: SFO, ORD, IAH, IAD, EWR.

Could it be that AA's European partner BA is less strong on the European continent than almighty LH is for UA ??

I wonder....


Exactly, and we hear the same rationale for AA in Germany. Skyteam competes effectively against Star in Germany so what is the real issue. Questioning AA's willingness to effectively market and fight in what are my opinion, fundamental markets for global carriers, i.e. FRA, AMS. MEX is a huge business market for the U.S. yet service from PHL and CLT has always been sub-par even in LUS days.
 
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RWA380
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:00 pm

hooverman wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
hooverman wrote:

Well I was actually questioning the fact they are struggling. I don’t think they are because the route is still there and being upgraded.


You’re probably right I was just thinking more so as to why they only have two hubs serving this route and not more of not all of them.


AA never served AMS untill they inherited the US Airways PHL route a few years ago. The opening of DFW was a surprise (to me). I have always seen AA as conservative opening new international routes to non allianced hubs.


Correct, but they had obtained the route authority & had opened for sale an ORD-AMS flight early 00's, I had tickets on it & ended up flying to BRU & taking the Thalys, after it was abruptly cancelled before they started the route. Was going to be flown on a 762.
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Boston757
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:41 pm

hooverman wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
LAA has been flying PHL-AMS for several years, However, it now will be crew with LUS PHL crews,as of NOV because of the Oct. FOI completion with FA's. Being able to be fortunate to fly that trip for the few months I would talk with
the AMS agents. so my last trip, they told me DFW-AMS is doing exceptionally well, beyond expectations. Lots of cargo so it was up gagged to a 777-200. AA was going back and forth with making DFW year round and PHL seasonal vice versa. Anyway, they obviously kept the original plan. However the agent said that its can change and there may be a 3rd AMS trip in the near future. Love to See a 3rd flight to AMS but ORD wasn't mentioned.


Good to hear that DFW is doing well.
What other hubs besides the already mentioned CLT could be the third destination? PHX or MIA?


The agents in AMS mentioned CLT, if so PHL and CLT would most likely be seasonal and DFW would be year round. They did say that AMS is in the top 5 European markets for AA. Flying this market, the tourist passengers on board are definatly more well healed. Viking and Avalon cruise leave from the city. The MIA-PHL leg of the trip on the 767-300 was full of conx to AMS, LIS, BUD and PRG.
 
Boston757
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:48 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
LAA has been flying PHL-AMS for several years, However, it now will be crew with LUS PHL crews,as of NOV because of the Oct. FOI completion with FA's. Being able to be fortunate to fly that trip for the few months I would talk with
the AMS agents. so my last trip, they told me DFW-AMS is doing exceptionally well, beyond expectations. Lots of cargo so it was up gagged to a 777-200. AA was going back and forth with making DFW year round and PHL seasonal vice versa. Anyway, they obviously kept the original plan. However the agent said that its can change and there may be a 3rd AMS trip in the near future. Love to See a 3rd flight to AMS but ORD wasn't mentioned.

Because the contracted ground agent has all the inside information... :roll:



The agent that I would speak with weekly was LUS previously based in BDL, when the agent position opened she was able to transfer home to AMS and works for AA,
 
Judge1310
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:25 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
DFW - AMS did great this summer on a 777-200 with Premium Economy.



And you know this to be the case because...? Not being snarky, just curious; are you going by anecdotal or quantitative evidence here?
 
acentauri
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:27 pm

CLT704 wrote:
I would not be shocked to see a summer seasonal CLT-AMS added sooner rather than later imo. Obviously, S19 is out the question but maybe S20/S21 could see it.

I'd be shocked if AA flew both CLT-AMS and DFW-AMS.
 
usairways85
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Re: AA to AMS

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:42 pm

And while I wouldn't be shocked if DFW-AMS went year round in favor of PHL-AMS, there becomes a point where how can PHL be called the main TA gateway when 65+% of the PHL TA destinations are seasonal
 
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chepos
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Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:09 am

soflaflyer wrote:
factsonly wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I wonder overall if AA “struggles” in Amsterdam being that it’s a Skyteam fortress since they struggle in Germany against Star Alliance.


If true, how come the other 'non-SKYTEAM' carrier United can do 5x daily routes USA-AMS in 2019 from: SFO, ORD, IAH, IAD, EWR.

Could it be that AA's European partner BA is less strong on the European continent than almighty LH is for UA ??

I wonder....


Exactly, and we hear the same rationale for AA in Germany. Skyteam competes effectively against Star in Germany so what is the real issue. Questioning AA's willingness to effectively market and fight in what are my opinion, fundamental markets for global carriers, i.e. FRA, AMS. MEX is a huge business market for the U.S. yet service from PHL and CLT has always been sub-par even in LUS days.


AA does fly to FRA (from DFW and CLT) and to MEX (from LAX, PHX, MIA, DFW, PHL and CLT).
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:35 am

Boston757 wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
LAA has been flying PHL-AMS for several years, However, it now will be crew with LUS PHL crews,as of NOV because of the Oct. FOI completion with FA's. Being able to be fortunate to fly that trip for the few months I would talk with
the AMS agents. so my last trip, they told me DFW-AMS is doing exceptionally well, beyond expectations. Lots of cargo so it was up gagged to a 777-200. AA was going back and forth with making DFW year round and PHL seasonal vice versa. Anyway, they obviously kept the original plan. However the agent said that its can change and there may be a 3rd AMS trip in the near future. Love to See a 3rd flight to AMS but ORD wasn't mentioned.

Because the contracted ground agent has all the inside information... :roll:



The agent that I would speak with weekly was LUS previously based in BDL, when the agent position opened she was able to transfer home to AMS and works for AA,

All the AA staff in Amsterdam except for the station manager work for Swissport. Also, due to labour contracts, AA does not do international transfers of non-managerial staff. I think you have been duped...
 
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chepos
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Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:57 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
Because the contracted ground agent has all the inside information... :roll:



The agent that I would speak with weekly was LUS previously based in BDL, when the agent position opened she was able to transfer home to AMS and works for AA,

All the AA staff in Amsterdam except for the station manager work for Swissport. Also, due to labour contracts, AA does not do international transfers of non-managerial staff. I think you have been duped...


AA has some insourced staff other than the GM, most year round stations do (even some seasonal stations). Yes, most of the ticketing staff and gate staff are outsourced but there are other employees there that are AA (other than the GM). For example, the current GM for LIS was a sup in AMS and later transferred to LIS as she is a native Portuguese speaker.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
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chepos
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Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:00 am

I believe CDG, MAD and LHR are the European stations with all insourced AA customer service above the wing.
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usflyer msp
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Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:18 am

chepos wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Boston757 wrote:


The agent that I would speak with weekly was LUS previously based in BDL, when the agent position opened she was able to transfer home to AMS and works for AA,

All the AA staff in Amsterdam except for the station manager work for Swissport. Also, due to labour contracts, AA does not do international transfers of non-managerial staff. I think you have been duped...


AA has some insourced staff other than the GM, most year round stations do (even some seasonal stations). Yes, most of the ticketing staff and gate staff are outsourced but there are other employees there that are AA (other than the GM). For example, the current GM for LIS was a sup in AMS and later transferred to LIS as she is a native Portuguese speaker.


That must be a relatively new thing. I have flown AA from AMS at least 5x and have never encountered an AA employee, even the supervisors I when I had a delayed flight and had to be rebooked were Swissport staff with Swissport uniforms and name tags.
 
acentauri
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Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:23 am

usairways85 wrote:
And while I wouldn't be shocked if DFW-AMS went year round in favor of PHL-AMS, there becomes a point where how can PHL be called the main TA gateway when 65+% of the PHL TA destinations are seasonal

Huh?? "main TA gateway" refers to number of current and projected destinations, regardless of seasonality. PHL has significantly MORE TA flights than any other AA Hub and the number continues to grow. ZRH and EDI were moved from JFK; BUD and PRG were added this year and AA (Vasu Raja) mentioned during a recent podcast that both have done extremely well out of PHL; BER (Berlin), BLQ (Bologna Italy) and DBV (Dubrovnik) were recently announced for 2019, with 1 or 2 more potentials. I'd say that AA considers PHL its "main TA Gateway". Additionally, MEX was moved from CLT to PHL, where O&D is expected to be significantly improved. AA PHL-FRA is moved to CLT-FRA and replaced with an upguaged mainline LH PHL-FRA flight. PHL-MUC is moved to CLT-MUC with some speculation that LH CLT-MUC may not continue; however my understanding from a few years ago is that LH CLT-MUC is significantly supported with commercial contracts.

Also, IMO, it's becoming more and more evident with AA's route adjustment announcements, that CLT's main competitor for continuing/new international services is DFW, not PHL. During the early days of the merger, it was a frequent discussion that PHL could not survive (internationally) with the 10 ton Gorilla up the road (JFK). Well the actual result has turned out far different. However, the still open ? is, will CLT grow or even maintain its current level of international service with the 10 ton Gorilla down the road (DFW), particularly if the industry takes a significant downturn.
 
soflaflyer
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Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:28 am

chepos wrote:
soflaflyer wrote:
factsonly wrote:

If true, how come the other 'non-SKYTEAM' carrier United can do 5x daily routes USA-AMS in 2019 from: SFO, ORD, IAH, IAD, EWR.

Could it be that AA's European partner BA is less strong on the European continent than almighty LH is for UA ??

I wonder....


Exactly, and we hear the same rationale for AA in Germany. Skyteam competes effectively against Star in Germany so what is the real issue. Questioning AA's willingness to effectively market and fight in what are my opinion, fundamental markets for global carriers, i.e. FRA, AMS. MEX is a huge business market for the U.S. yet service from PHL and CLT has always been sub-par even in LUS days.


AA does fly to FRA (from DFW and CLT) and to MEX (from LAX, PHX, MIA, DFW, PHL and CLT).


I am aware that they fly to FRA from CLT and DFW, however the point is that they should be able to support at least one flight to such an important city from their primary TA gateway. As I mentioned in my post, my comments regarding MEX are specifically targeted at inadequate CLT and PHL service which has been the case since LUS.
 
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chepos
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Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:33 am

usflyer msp wrote:
chepos wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
All the AA staff in Amsterdam except for the station manager work for Swissport. Also, due to labour contracts, AA does not do international transfers of non-managerial staff. I think you have been duped...


AA has some insourced staff other than the GM, most year round stations do (even some seasonal stations). Yes, most of the ticketing staff and gate staff are outsourced but there are other employees there that are AA (other than the GM). For example, the current GM for LIS was a sup in AMS and later transferred to LIS as she is a native Portuguese speaker.


That must be a relatively new thing. I have flown AA from AMS at least 5x and have never encountered an AA employee, even the supervisors I when I had a delayed flight and had to be rebooked were Swissport staff with Swissport uniforms and name tags.


Nopers, this dates back to LUS days. Some stations like PRG and BUD only have an ASM as the sole AA employee but the larger more established stations have more than just the GM.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
hooverman
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Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:35 am

usairways85 wrote:
And while I wouldn't be shocked if DFW-AMS went year round in favor of PHL-AMS, there becomes a point where how can PHL be called the main TA gateway when 65+% of the PHL TA destinations are seasonal


Why would they make PHL-AMS seasonal? The flight has been around forever and has been upgauged this season. As I said in the OP, I think it’s an Anet myth that this route is marginal.
 
hooverman
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:20 pm

Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:58 am

RWA380 wrote:
hooverman wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:

You’re probably right I was just thinking more so as to why they only have two hubs serving this route and not more of not all of them.


AA never served AMS untill they inherited the US Airways PHL route a few years ago. The opening of DFW was a surprise (to me). I have always seen AA as conservative opening new international routes to non allianced hubs.


Correct, but they had obtained the route authority & had opened for sale an ORD-AMS flight early 00's, I had tickets on it & ended up flying to BRU & taking the Thalys, after it was abruptly cancelled before they started the route. Was going to be flown on a 762.


Yes I remember reading about that. I always thought it had to do with 9/11 but I guess it was before that.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3096
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:08 am

chepos wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
chepos wrote:

AA has some insourced staff other than the GM, most year round stations do (even some seasonal stations). Yes, most of the ticketing staff and gate staff are outsourced but there are other employees there that are AA (other than the GM). For example, the current GM for LIS was a sup in AMS and later transferred to LIS as she is a native Portuguese speaker.


That must be a relatively new thing. I have flown AA from AMS at least 5x and have never encountered an AA employee, even the supervisors I when I had a delayed flight and had to be rebooked were Swissport staff with Swissport uniforms and name tags.


Nopers, this dates back to LUS days. Some stations like PRG and BUD only have an ASM as the sole AA employee but the larger more established stations have more than just the GM.


Im not sure about that. US was quite low budget when it came to European staffing. They even had had smaller/seasonal European stations sharing station managers. I know the GM for AMS was also the GM for EDI and DUB and SNN also shared a GM in the US days.
 
hooverman
Topic Author
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:20 pm

Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:56 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
hooverman wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

Also, remember the correct term is "upgauge" or "downgauge" when a smaller or larger plane is substituted. Upgrade or downgrade refers to class of service on board.


Going from a AA 767 to 772 seems like an upgrade to me ;)


In the old days, I might agree, but with "slim seating" these days, I'd have to know the seating before saying for sure!


You are right. The oldies are often more comfortable.
But AA’s 767 has some reliability issues as last year the 767 on the DFW route where often delayed.
 
usairways85
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:25 pm

hooverman wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
And while I wouldn't be shocked if DFW-AMS went year round in favor of PHL-AMS, there becomes a point where how can PHL be called the main TA gateway when 65+% of the PHL TA destinations are seasonal


Why would they make PHL-AMS seasonal? The flight has been around forever and has been upgauged this season. As I said in the OP, I think it’s an Anet myth that this route is marginal.

I do not believe there has been any published statement about PHL-AMS performance so it is all A.net armchair rumor. But IIRC, PHL-AMS was a LUS 762, then 752, then LAA 752, and now LAA 763. It received an upgrade to a 763 but none of these aircraft choices scream out that this route is a bread winner. PHL-PRG on the second season of operation received an upgauge to 332 over any consideration for AMS
 
Boston757
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:39 pm

Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:48 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
Because the contracted ground agent has all the inside information... :roll:



The agent that I would speak with weekly was LUS previously based in BDL, when the agent position opened she was able to transfer home to AMS and works for AA,

All the AA staff in Amsterdam except for the station manager work for Swissport. Also, due to labour contracts, AA does not do international transfers of non-managerial staff. I think you have been duped...


Ill let her know that next time. Two of the agents reffred to themselvs as AA agents.We will have to chatt with them again next week, since I get the opportunity to be at the boarding door thruout the entire boarding. Station manger was on at the end of Sept. greeting the NASA cockpit JS, and has been on before so next time we will get even moee scopp,since we know who to look for.
.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6377
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:04 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
chepos wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

That must be a relatively new thing. I have flown AA from AMS at least 5x and have never encountered an AA employee, even the supervisors I when I had a delayed flight and had to be rebooked were Swissport staff with Swissport uniforms and name tags.


Nopers, this dates back to LUS days. Some stations like PRG and BUD only have an ASM as the sole AA employee but the larger more established stations have more than just the GM.


Im not sure about that. US was quite low budget when it came to European staffing. They even had had smaller/seasonal European stations sharing station managers. I know the GM for AMS was also the GM for EDI and DUB and SNN also shared a GM in the US days.


I know for a fact the GLA GM at least this past season shared responsibility over EDI, don’t recall AMS having oversight over EDI (he did has oversight at some
point over LIS and over OSL and now PRG). Many times the seasonal locations had oversight from another GM but they still had staff based there. For example, this past season ZRH GM has oversight over BUD, but there was an AA employee there that served as ASM. In BUD all above wing Customer service staff except the ASM are outsourced. As to SNN they actually have a GM, she has oversight over KEF. Either way not the subject at hand.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
hooverman
Topic Author
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:20 pm

Re: AA to AMS

Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:15 pm

usairways85 wrote:
hooverman wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
And while I wouldn't be shocked if DFW-AMS went year round in favor of PHL-AMS, there becomes a point where how can PHL be called the main TA gateway when 65+% of the PHL TA destinations are seasonal


Why would they make PHL-AMS seasonal? The flight has been around forever and has been upgauged this season. As I said in the OP, I think it’s an Anet myth that this route is marginal.

I do not believe there has been any published statement about PHL-AMS performance so it is all A.net armchair rumor. But IIRC, PHL-AMS was a LUS 762, then 752, then LAA 752, and now LAA 763. It received an upgrade to a 763 but none of these aircraft choices scream out that this route is a bread winner. PHL-PRG on the second season of operation received an upgauge to 332 over any consideration for AMS


I don’t think it’s a goldmine but it probably makes a decent profit. I looked it up and the 767 and 332 have the same amount of bussiness class seats but the 332 has more economy seats so probably AMS has a healthy premium demand and less need for more economy seats.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5094
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: AA to AMS

Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:13 pm

hooverman wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
hooverman wrote:

AA never served AMS untill they inherited the US Airways PHL route a few years ago. The opening of DFW was a surprise (to me). I have always seen AA as conservative opening new international routes to non allianced hubs.


Correct, but they had obtained the route authority & had opened for sale an ORD-AMS flight early 00's, I had tickets on it & ended up flying to BRU & taking the Thalys, after it was abruptly cancelled before they started the route. Was going to be flown on a 762.


Yes I remember reading about that. I always thought it had to do with 9/11 but I guess it was before that.


It wasn't due to 9/11 & here is how I know, my cousin landed in Amsterdam, the same morning I & my partner were leaving AMS to fly to LHR for 4 nights, then we headed home to Portland.

Her & her BF, went onwards after a few days in Amsterdam to Italy, She was flying home from Rome on 9/11, ended up in Amsterdam & were grounded. They waited 4 days to get on a KL flight to YVR, then they took a ride-share limo from YVR to SEA, where my Dad picked her up in what was then, my brand new 2001 Jetta.
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Boston757
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:39 pm

Re: AA to AMS

Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:33 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
Because the contracted ground agent has all the inside information... :roll:



The agent that I would speak with weekly was LUS previously based in BDL, when the agent position opened she was able to transfer home to AMS and works for AA,

All the AA staff in Amsterdam except for the station manager work for Swissport. Also, due to labour contracts, AA does not do international transfers of non-managerial staff. I think you have been duped...



Just back from Ams, 3 of the agents are AA and the rest are Swissport.
 
redwingspilot
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: AA to AMS

Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:45 pm

Boston757 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Boston757 wrote:


The agent that I would speak with weekly was LUS previously based in BDL, when the agent position opened she was able to transfer home to AMS and works for AA,

All the AA staff in Amsterdam except for the station manager work for Swissport. Also, due to labour contracts, AA does not do international transfers of non-managerial staff. I think you have been duped...



Just back from Ams, 3 of the agents are AA and the rest are Swissport.


The GM of AMS also oversees LIS and PRG, at AMS there's 2 Customer Service Supervisors, 3 Customer Service Agents, and 1 Station Security Coordinator, all work for AA.
Last edited by redwingspilot on Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
redwingspilot
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: AA to AMS

Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:48 pm

Boston757 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Boston757 wrote:


The agent that I would speak with weekly was LUS previously based in BDL, when the agent position opened she was able to transfer home to AMS and works for AA,

All the AA staff in Amsterdam except for the station manager work for Swissport. Also, due to labour contracts, AA does not do international transfers of non-managerial staff. I think you have been duped...



Just back from Ams, 3 of the agents are AA and the rest are Swissport.


The GM of AMS also oversees LIS and PRG, at AMS there's 2 Customer Service Supervisors, 3 Customer Service Agents, and 1 Station Security Coordinator, all work for AA.

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