Spindoctor
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Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:03 pm

Hi all. First ever post on here after following the board for a while.

I live close to and use Manchester Airport. Jet2 are a major airline operating there. They currently have a fleet of 11 757s which they use on some of their medium haul routes. Many of them are 30+ plus years old. My question is how long can these Renton classics continue to fly and what will Jet2 be looking at as possible replacements?
 
george77300
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:07 pm

Spindoctor wrote:
Hi all. First ever post on here after following the board for a while.

I live close to and use Manchester Airport. Jet2 are a major airline operating there. They currently have a fleet of 11 757s which they use on some of their medium haul routes. Many of them are 30+ plus years old. My question is how long can these Renton classics continue to fly and what will Jet2 be looking at as possible replacements?


As an all 737 operator (apart from the 757) and will the some older 737 classics as well as NG, I would guess they are a prime suspect for a MAX 8/MAX 10 split order at some point.
 
Spindoctor
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:21 pm

george77300 wrote:
Spindoctor wrote:
Hi all. First ever post on here after following the board for a while.

I live close to and use Manchester Airport. Jet2 are a major airline operating there. They currently have a fleet of 11 757s which they use on some of their medium haul routes. Many of them are 30+ plus years old. My question is how long can these Renton classics continue to fly and what will Jet2 be looking at as possible replacements?


As an all 737 operator (apart from the 757) and will the some older 737 classics as well as NG, I would guess they are a prime suspect for a MAX 8/MAX 10 split order at some point.


A max 10 might be a good replacement for the 757 and would make a standardised fleet. However the 757 are deployed in the winter on transatlantic trips to New York which the max 10 wouldn’t have the legs for.
 
pdp
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:28 pm

Jet2 aren't necessarily tied to Boeing from what I've heard. They're also apparently unlikely to get the MAX for a while because of the cost, much like Ryanair they got cheap NG slots and that's helped them replace the old quick change 300s. If anything I reckon they might just get newer 757s and 738s, because after all they don't need them for the range most of the time, just the seats.

Interestingly they're also not adverse to leasing aircraft to cover gaps. This summer they've had the entire Titan fleet and an Air Tanker 330 (that didn't break on its first flight this time) at various times.
 
mwhcvt
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:44 pm

If they need the capacity I really wouldn’t be surprised if they went with a few older A321, I don’t really see them going MAX or NEO within the next 10 years, it’s only in recent years that they have taken anything new off the line, as an airline Jet2 are very conservative in their business model and are more than happy to operate older aircraft with a lower CAPX but that burn a little more fuel and maybe need that extra bit of maintence.. vs new aircraft that come with a much higher CAPX but with lower fuel burn and lower maintence

It’s worth noting that the vast majority of the routes are to sun destinations from the UK and the average sector is likely under 3 hours so fuel burn efficiency might not be as bigger factor as some might think
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
Spindoctor
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:20 pm

That’s certainly Jet 2’s style. Hovering up older stock at a lower capital outlay rather than going for the latest models. They only bought the brand new 737 NGs presumably because of the favourable terms offered by Boeing.
 
bennett123
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:59 pm

I tend to agree with pep.

There are going to be plenty of used B737NG out there.

As for the B757, IMO having a split A/B fleet makes no sense.
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:16 am

Jet 2 could easily find RR POWERED 757’s with low cycles/hours. There have been late build models that have been available the last few years from European carriers.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:26 am

The Titan A321 they have been leasing might be an indicator. CFM powered and seat count the same as the 757. It also flies all their routes out to five hours (Turkey and Cyprus, the Islands, plus headwinds and diversions).

If they could pick up twelve or so it would be worth it. Second user or great condition and value. It is about the time such fleets start being turned over by the NEO and deals will be on offer.

Without getting too deep into it or long winded there are possibilities with Jet2engineering at Manchester for maintaining an Airbus subfleet. Not just yet though as LS want to get a bit longer out of the 757s.
 
by738
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:28 am

i dont think a small number of xmas charters will dictate the future fleet plans and so if they opted for 737-10 or A321 high capacity that neither could make over the Atlantic, im sure the xmas charters would just get quietly dropped. Their bulk income comes from high frequency pseudo charter Jet2 Holidays short(er) haul.
 
Clydenairways
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:57 am

I think the Max 8 200 would be the perfect size for them. No need for them to keep two types in the fleet anymore. The 757 was more needed back when they just had the 733 in the fleet. The Max 200 is a perfect all rounder for them. While the capacity of the max 10 might be useful but they can still lease in large capacity aircraft for the peak season demand.
 
ewt340
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:07 am

They are currently leasing 3 A321 and 1 A330. One could argue that they are currently Trialling airbus aircraft to see if it's really worth it.

Looking at A321 LOPAS, we know that they are certified by EASA and FAA to carry maximum of 230 passengers. Which is 5 less seat compared to B757-200.

And there are many used A321 compared to newer B757-200.1
 
Chaostheory
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:26 pm

ewt340 wrote:
They are currently leasing 3 A321 and 1 A330. One could argue that they are currently Trialling airbus aircraft to see if it's really worth it.

Looking at A321 LOPAS, we know that they are certified by EASA and FAA to carry maximum of 230 passengers. Which is 5 less seat compared to B757-200.

And there are many used A321 compared to newer B757-200.1


Some of the 757s have in the region of 90k flight hours. Not to mention 321s are a lot cheaper to maintain (engines) and burn a third less fuel. I reckon they'll be shopping for replacements in the next couple of years.

With monarch out of the picture, it's worth keeping an eye on the Dart Group's numbers too.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:11 pm

Do all you people not understand how LS has become so successful?

Buying aircraft cheap.

That does NOT include Max200 this or 737-10 that. All of which will fetch top dollar for the next ten to fifteen years. The 737-8MG fleet was a sweetheart deal for the end of the line, and Dart Group is out there buying secondhand 738s again.

A little bit of common sense please.
 
GalebG4
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:42 pm

Jet 2 uses older jets so looks like their business plan works, makes profit which is most important thing. If we look at numbers, number of passengers per 737 we will see that jet2 uses jets like Allegiant in US. 737-900 might be answer to 757-200 with 20 passengers less, lower fuel burn, fleet commonality and of course bunch of jets available when airlines start upgrading fleet to max.
 
Nickd92
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:18 pm

To look at a future 757 replacement for this airline you've first got to look at where this aircraft operates from; LBA & MAN only.

Whilst a 737-900/max200/max10 will have no problem operating in/out of MAN it will out of LBA. If you don't know why; do some research about Leeds Bradford International airport and you'll soon learn why. Quick overview; Shortish Runway; on a hill; crosswind landings when windy; and a displaced threshold at one end of the runway with that said runway the only one equipped for a CAT3 landing. The 757 is perfect for this airport and is one of the reasons why Jet2 bought the aircraft. I suggest you all go and learn about it.

As Channex757 has pointed out; the airline bought new aircraft due to a sweet deal offered by Boeing at the end of their production of the NG aircraft. This has allowed the company to quickly expand into BHX and STN and changed the airline as a whole for the better. They are now back to buying 2nd life aircraft which is why they have been so successful over the last decade which will aid expansion in the next couple of years.

I can see an order of new aircraft coming soon. I think Airbus may offer them a sweet deal for A321CEO's at the end of their production line and with this they won't just use them for replacement of the aircraft in MAN/LBA but also expansion for seat count in BHX and STN. An order of between 24-30 would probably allow enough 'newer' modelled 737-800 to be displaced thus allowing them to open up in new base in the southwest (the long rumour of BRS/CWL). I have a feeling however, despite the opinion they won't go long haul, it is the inventible way to go for this company. The A321 deal will coincide with a A330 deal.
 
Chaostheory
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:53 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Do all you people not understand how LS has become so successful?

Buying aircraft cheap.

That does NOT include Max200 this or 737-10 that. All of which will fetch top dollar for the next ten to fifteen years. The 737-8MG fleet was a sweetheart deal for the end of the line, and Dart Group is out there buying secondhand 738s again.

A little bit of common sense please.


I'm aware of all that.

I was just expanding on the rationale of why the 321 would be a good fit for them, new or used. As was the case for their factory built 737s, I can see them follow the same example (just as Allegiant did with the 320) and pick up some end of the line 321s if the price is right.

For those who find the numbers game interesting, an engine shop visit with a full new set of LLPs costs $5.5m for the cfm56-5b (A321). The RB211-535 which is the lowest maintenance option on the 757 would cost over $9m for an overhaul with new LLPs.

Something else worth considering is the procurement of used 330-200s as their lease prices continue to drop. I've seen 10 year old examples being offered for less than 400k/month.
 
ewt340
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:29 pm

Chaostheory wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
Do all you people not understand how LS has become so successful?

Buying aircraft cheap.

That does NOT include Max200 this or 737-10 that. All of which will fetch top dollar for the next ten to fifteen years. The 737-8MG fleet was a sweetheart deal for the end of the line, and Dart Group is out there buying secondhand 738s again.

A little bit of common sense please.


I'm aware of all that.

I was just expanding on the rationale of why the 321 would be a good fit for them, new or used. As was the case for their factory built 737s, I can see them follow the same example (just as Allegiant did with the 320) and pick up some end of the line 321s if the price is right.

For those who find the numbers game interesting, an engine shop visit with a full new set of LLPs costs $5.5m for the cfm56-5b (A321). The RB211-535 which is the lowest maintenance option on the 757 would cost over $9m for an overhaul with new LLPs.

Something else worth considering is the procurement of used 330-200s as their lease prices continue to drop. I've seen 10 year old examples being offered for less than 400k/month.


Mostly because of the capacity, better fuel efficiency,
cheaper price for the used aircraft, range and capability that B737-900ER doesn't offer and the fact that their B757-200 can't stay in their fleet forever.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to use A320, it could carry 186 seating in 28" seat pitch.
They already fitted their A321 with 28" seat pitch.
Their B737-800 have 189 seat in 30" seat pitch.

They wouldn't replace their B737-800 for now. But they could add A320 and A321 base on commonality. As long as they operate big enough number of these aircraft family (50+ combined) then it would be worth it to add new type into their future operations.
 
Nickd92
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:36 pm

ewt340 wrote:

Mostly because of the capacity, better fuel efficiency,
cheaper price for the used aircraft, range and capability that B737-900ER doesn't offer and the fact that their B757-200 can't stay in their fleet forever.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to use A320, it could carry 186 seating in 28" seat pitch.
They already fitted their A321 with 28" seat pitch.
Their B737-800 have 189 seat in 30" seat pitch.

They wouldn't replace their B737-800 for now. But they could add A320 and A321 base on commonality. As long as they operate big enough number of these aircraft family (50+ combined) then it would be worth it to add new type into their future operations.


What would the A320 add to Jet2 over what the 737-800 can offer? It offers 189 seats; 3 over the maximum of a A320.

They've operated the 757 as a separate sub fleet of 11 aircraft. If they were to operate Airbus A320 family it will be the A321; and in my opinion will be double the fleet they have now as they have shown they can fill the STN & BHX flights. They won't operate a sub-fleet of 50+ A321/20 unless they replace the whole 737-800 fleet too.

As for their A321 - they are Titan or Smart-lynx operated.
 
ewt340
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:56 pm

Nickd92 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:

Mostly because of the capacity, better fuel efficiency,
cheaper price for the used aircraft, range and capability that B737-900ER doesn't offer and the fact that their B757-200 can't stay in their fleet forever.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to use A320, it could carry 186 seating in 28" seat pitch.
They already fitted their A321 with 28" seat pitch.
Their B737-800 have 189 seat in 30" seat pitch.

They wouldn't replace their B737-800 for now. But they could add A320 and A321 base on commonality. As long as they operate big enough number of these aircraft family (50+ combined) then it would be worth it to add new type into their future operations.


What would the A320 add to Jet2 over what the 737-800 can offer? It offers 189 seats; 3 over the maximum of a A320.

They've operated the 757 as a separate sub fleet of 11 aircraft. If they were to operate Airbus A320 family it will be the A321; and in my opinion will be double the fleet they have now as they have shown they can fill the STN & BHX flights. They won't operate a sub-fleet of 50+ A321/20 unless they replace the whole 737-800 fleet too.

As for their A321 - they are Titan or Smart-lynx operated.


Because logically speaking, A320 would offer better fuel efficiency based on the shorter fuselage and less seat pitch. Both A320 and B737-800 are certified to carry maximum of 189 seat. A320 carry mostly maximum of 186 seat with 28" seat pitch while B737-800 carry 189 seat with around 30" seat pitch because of the longer fuselage. And since they are not a premium airline, they wouldn't care about seat pitch.

They would wanted to operate A320 IF they operate A321 too. Since they could positioned both aircraft in the same airport base. Commonality helps the operation and transition. Hence the crew on the same airport base couls transition from A320 to A321 easily than to transition to B737-800.

They could use the A320/A321 for growth. Mind you, they carry 9.6 millions of passengers in 2017, up from 6.7 millioms of passengers. It's a big growth and they need more plane.
 
OMAAbound
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:07 pm

Word I've heard from a few friends that work at Jet2 is that within the next 12-18 months, expect too see some second hand A321's arriving. As hasten said, the seat count and range for the is an ideal replacement for the 757.

OMAA
Right hand seat of a 787. Also can be found eating sandwiches, drinking coffee and attempting to understand Chinese ATC!
 
Spindoctor
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:33 pm

OMAAbound wrote:
Word I've heard from a few friends that work at Jet2 is that within the next 12-18 months, expect too see some second hand A321's arriving. As hasten said, the seat count and range for the is an ideal replacement for the 757.

OMAA


That would seem logical, if they are looking for the nearest replacement for the 757 and are following their previous trends of picking from the secondhand \ late build heavily discounted market instead of new latest models.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:59 pm

The A321neo or A321LR could be had from lessors; either could be able to fly to Newark, which is likely a requirement for a 757 replacement. If Jet2 wants to remain an all-Boeing operation, the B39M could be a possibility if Jet2 acts quickly to be able to acquire some of the frames that Primera Air was intending to lease...they would need 6 frames with the auxiliary tank. Remember, a replacement must be able to reach EWR. (The Christmas flight origin points are between 2820 and 2960 nmi from EWR.)

That said, I don't believe 3550 nmi (the advertised range) can be achieved with a Y220 configuration. With Y198, however, it could be possible with SWF or PHL as the declared alternate, given that the heavy loads would likely be on the return flights from EWR back to the UK.
 
Zidane
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:36 pm

Taking some B757s off Thompson's hands could work, they're in great shape and soon leaving the fleet.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:20 am

Nickd92 wrote:
To look at a future 757 replacement for this airline you've first got to look at where this aircraft operates from; LBA & MAN only.

Whilst a 737-900/max200/max10 will have no problem operating in/out of MAN it will out of LBA. If you don't know why; do some research about Leeds Bradford International airport and you'll soon learn why. Quick overview; Shortish Runway; on a hill; crosswind landings when windy; and a displaced threshold at one end of the runway with that said runway the only one equipped for a CAT3 landing. The 757 is perfect for this airport and is one of the reasons why Jet2 bought the aircraft. I suggest you all go and learn about it.

As Channex757 has pointed out; the airline bought new aircraft due to a sweet deal offered by Boeing at the end of their production of the NG aircraft. This has allowed the company to quickly expand into BHX and STN and changed the airline as a whole for the better. They are now back to buying 2nd life aircraft which is why they have been so successful over the last decade which will aid expansion in the next couple of years.

I can see an order of new aircraft coming soon. I think Airbus may offer them a sweet deal for A321CEO's at the end of their production line and with this they won't just use them for replacement of the aircraft in MAN/LBA but also expansion for seat count in BHX and STN. An order of between 24-30 would probably allow enough 'newer' modelled 737-800 to be displaced thus allowing them to open up in new base in the southwest (the long rumour of BRS/CWL). I have a feeling however, despite the opinion they won't go long haul, it is the inventible way to go for this company. The A321 deal will coincide with a A330 deal.


If the idea is a 757 replacement, it has to be able to make EWR nonstop for Christmas shopping trips, unless LS plans to lease in wide-body capacity for those trips. However, it would be more expensive than flying a 116t Boeing 757-200. If Jet2 orders soon, it could spec its B39Ms as 3605-nmi versions for a 2022 delivery with 198-200 seats (to keep it at 4 flight attendants).
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:42 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Nickd92 wrote:
To look at a future 757 replacement for this airline you've first got to look at where this aircraft operates from; LBA & MAN only.

Whilst a 737-900/max200/max10 will have no problem operating in/out of MAN it will out of LBA. If you don't know why; do some research about Leeds Bradford International airport and you'll soon learn why. Quick overview; Shortish Runway; on a hill; crosswind landings when windy; and a displaced threshold at one end of the runway with that said runway the only one equipped for a CAT3 landing. The 757 is perfect for this airport and is one of the reasons why Jet2 bought the aircraft. I suggest you all go and learn about it.

As Channex757 has pointed out; the airline bought new aircraft due to a sweet deal offered by Boeing at the end of their production of the NG aircraft. This has allowed the company to quickly expand into BHX and STN and changed the airline as a whole for the better. They are now back to buying 2nd life aircraft which is why they have been so successful over the last decade which will aid expansion in the next couple of years.

I can see an order of new aircraft coming soon. I think Airbus may offer them a sweet deal for A321CEO's at the end of their production line and with this they won't just use them for replacement of the aircraft in MAN/LBA but also expansion for seat count in BHX and STN. An order of between 24-30 would probably allow enough 'newer' modelled 737-800 to be displaced thus allowing them to open up in new base in the southwest (the long rumour of BRS/CWL). I have a feeling however, despite the opinion they won't go long haul, it is the inventible way to go for this company. The A321 deal will coincide with a A330 deal.


If the idea is a 757 replacement, it has to be able to make EWR nonstop for Christmas shopping trips, unless LS plans to lease in wide-body capacity for those trips. However, it would be more expensive than flying a 116t Boeing 757-200. If Jet2 orders soon, it could spec its B39Ms as 3605-nmi versions for a 2022 delivery with 198-200 seats (to keep it at 4 flight attendants).


While I'm sure this is something they'll keep in mind, I think if a sensible, cost efficient option is available and it means they can't do the NA flights they'll just drop them. Not important enough in the grand scheme of things IMO.
 
jacoblaurie04
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:19 am

What I heard that the plan is to replace them with a330’s.
 
FB330
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:56 am

I'm with another poster on here. I can't see an order for new MAX or NEO aircraft. I suspect we'll see them getting used 321s or end of line new CEOs.

I can't see them going widebody yet and I don't think buying an aircraft specifically to accommodate a dozen shopping trips to New York is a wise move.

My guess is 321s.
 
User001
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:13 am

I can't see them going widebody yet


Given they have had one A330 for the past 2 summers, and now getting a second one this summer as well as keeping its first one year round, Clearly they can see it.
 
APYu
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:32 am

The winter New York trips were dreamt up as they had spare aircraft in the low season which could operate it. I doubt they will base any fleet decision too much on what is a dozen round trips per year. They know what their bread and butter is, and will base their fleet decision on hauling package tour pax in large number to the euro hot spots.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:06 am

APYu wrote:
The winter New York trips were dreamt up as they had spare aircraft in the low season which could operate it. I doubt they will base any fleet decision too much on what is a dozen round trips per year. They know what their bread and butter is, and will base their fleet decision on hauling package tour pax in large number to the euro hot spots.

It isn't a decision for this year anyway. Three A321s are being leased in and the first 3 757s will only go at the end of this summer. None of which are ETOPS birds.

If LS want a limited JFK program they could just extend the A330 flying a little and use one aircraft up until December. As I said, not this year as ETOPS capable aircraft are unaffected.
 
MADPYRO
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:57 am

Channex757 wrote:
APYu wrote:
The winter New York trips were dreamt up as they had spare aircraft in the low season which could operate it. I doubt they will base any fleet decision too much on what is a dozen round trips per year. They know what their bread and butter is, and will base their fleet decision on hauling package tour pax in large number to the euro hot spots.

It isn't a decision for this year anyway. Three A321s are being leased in and the first 3 757s will only go at the end of this summer. None of which are ETOPS birds.

If LS want a limited JFK program they could just extend the A330 flying a little and use one aircraft up until December. As I said, not this year as ETOPS capable aircraft are unaffected.


Aren't these the non-WL birds that are going first? (The ex-China Southern ones)
A319/A320/A321/A388/B737/B738/B744/B752/B772/E190/F70
 
meesh42
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:14 am

Wouldn't something like the A321LR be viable for them, slightly more capacity than a 757 and could go further? obviously have to wait and see if they can actualyl afford to get some that is
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:14 am

New frames seem to be out. So no 737MAX and no A320neo family frames.

I assume that for the near future used 737 will be rather expensive, because 737 airlines have to replace grounded or later compensate for late arrival of MAX frames. 737-900ER are also runway hogs, not suitable for all airports.

Used A321ceo seems to be a reasonable guess for replacement of the 757.
 
Nickd92
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:54 am

Believe the plan is for the 330 to do all but the LBA EWR trips for Winter 19.

So i can see an A321 NEO or CEO (could be NEO) order soon. Probably all depends on how Brexit affects the country. But no one knows and will know until the most useless politicians in nearly forever make a decision.
 
FB330
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:11 pm

My comment on wide bodies is around long term ownership/lease. Leasing 330s over the summer is one thing; buying them or taking out 10 year finance leases is another.
 
User001
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:16 pm

FB330 wrote:
My comment on wide bodies is around long term ownership/lease. Leasing 330s over the summer is one thing; buying them or taking out 10 year finance leases is another.


They have taken one on a year round deal for 2 or 3 years IIRC from Air Tanker. This could pave the way for leasing their own once they have that year round data to decide if it will be viable.

The point is though, that clearly widebody ops are currently a ‘thing’ and look to be a feature for the foreseeale, to which your original comment insinuated that they were not under consideration.
 
FlapsOne
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:21 pm

There’s nothing to say that NYC will always be served. Look at SYD-South Africa. When the 747 and A380 are retired it’s possible that the route will be dropped and passengers sent elsewhere. TUI and Thomas Cook sell tickets on other airlines, so I can see TCX block booking of seats and the route not being served by Jet2. Its one route that served for a few dozen rotations. It’s not central to their strategy nor their survival.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 205
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:02 pm

And while all of you are trying to find an answer about the 757s, i was wondering what will happen once the 733s are gone...Will LS have only 738s? They're great but the 733s were and still are deployed on thinner routes where the 738s might be a bit too big..Should they look for second-hand 737-700s in the market? KLM is slowly phasing them out,SAS too, i dont; know about Westjet and Southwest..but still they could find some. Is it too burdensome a solution financially considering they had the 733s all these years?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
bennett123
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:17 pm

If we are seriously looking at newer B757, the options are quite limited.

To get a batch to a common standard that are significantly newer than what they have, you have the US3 and FI. However, there is no sign that the latter are going to retire theirs anytime soon. The other issue is that planes meeting this requirement are much in demand for cargo. As the oldest cargo B757 are retired, this will also push up costs. IMO it is a non starter.

There has been a lot of talk about the A321CEO, either used or end of production. Personally, I do not see it happening for reasons of commonality. The side stick is IMO an additional factor. The LS pilots do not currently use it, and I think this will create an additional complexity if you want pilots to be dual qualified rather than have separate pilot pools.

I reckon the best option is the B737NG. Once the present B737MAX issue is resolved, which should be by the end of 2019 then cheap used B737NG will be available in bulk. Not sure how many new B737NG slots are left. According to Wikipedia, (I know) there are currently about 40 orders not yet fulfilled, (excluding P8).

Resolves the commonality issue, leaving a single fleet which is a major advantage in terms of scheduling, flight crew and mechanic training and spare parts holdings.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:33 pm

I'm kindof surprised that they didn't take some of the ex Air Berlin A321SLs.

Chaostheory wrote:
For those who find the numbers game interesting, an engine shop visit with a full new set of LLPs costs $5.5m for the cfm56-5b (A321). The RB211-535 which is the lowest maintenance option on the 757 would cost over $9m for an overhaul with new LLPs.

Very interesting, thanks.

Chaostheory wrote:
Something else worth considering is the procurement of used 330-200s as their lease prices continue to drop. I've seen 10 year old examples being offered for less than 400k/month.

I'm sure that in three to five years time we will see a lot of used A332s on the market coming from the CN3. I'm sure there's going to be plenty of deals to be had.
First to fly the 787-9
 
FB330
Posts: 65
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:14 pm

User001 wrote:
FB330 wrote:
My comment on wide bodies is around long term ownership/lease. Leasing 330s over the summer is one thing; buying them or taking out 10 year finance leases is another.


They have taken one on a year round deal for 2 or 3 years IIRC from Air Tanker. This could pave the way for leasing their own once they have that year round data to decide if it will be viable.

The point is though, that clearly widebody ops are currently a ‘thing’ and look to be a feature for the foreseeale, to which your original comment insinuated that they were not under consideration.


Good point. I still think it’s a completely different ball game to use them with your own crews on a long term basis. That said, maybe the gently gently approach we see now is them testing things out.

As for the 733s, not sure there is an obvious replacement. Suspect they will just upgauge to 738 ops for now.
 
Nickd92
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:01 pm

Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:46 pm

bennett123 wrote:
If we are seriously looking at newer B757, the options are quite limited.

To get a batch to a common standard that are significantly newer than what they have, you have the US3 and FI. However, there is no sign that the latter are going to retire theirs anytime soon. The other issue is that planes meeting this requirement are much in demand for cargo. As the oldest cargo B757 are retired, this will also push up costs. IMO it is a non starter.

There has been a lot of talk about the A321CEO, either used or end of production. Personally, I do not see it happening for reasons of commonality. The side stick is IMO an additional factor. The LS pilots do not currently use it, and I think this will create an additional complexity if you want pilots to be dual qualified rather than have separate pilot pools.

I reckon the best option is the B737NG. Once the present B737MAX issue is resolved, which should be by the end of 2019 then cheap used B737NG will be available in bulk. Not sure how many new B737NG slots are left. According to Wikipedia, (I know) there are currently about 40 orders not yet fulfilled, (excluding P8).

Resolves the commonality issue, leaving a single fleet which is a major advantage in terms of scheduling, flight crew and mechanic training and spare parts holdings.



They don't dual qualify the 757 and the 737 fleet (only the 800/300). So Jet2 are very much used to the training required when running two fleets side by side from Scheduling, flight crews, engineers training & spare parts holdings. They have 14 years of experience of this.

Get the 73NG but it all depends on where you gong to send these. For example when, (not if), when they go back to Egypt the 737-800 will struggle from bases such as NCL, LBA - and potentially when (again not if), BRS or CWL. The A321 is brilliant as a people mover which they have consistently filled out of LBA and out of MAN even in winter. To counteract the huge loss of 757's and 46 seat per aircraft twice a day for 7 days a week you'd need a lot more slots for additional frequencies for the loss. I'm sure even MAN doesn't have the amount required.

They are having great success of filling the A321 out of BHX and STN during summer and probably wouldn't struggle filling them in winter down to the Canaries.

I foresee A321 order soon.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:05 pm

I can see a strong rationale for Jet2 working towards a fleet plan with a backbone of the B738, supported by a decent sized fleet of A321ceo and perhaps a handful of A332 for their trunk routes (such as Alicante, Palma, Tenerife).
 
juliuswong
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:56 am

There are many A321 went to storage recently, I can see Jet2 picking up a few now with A320neo family prodduciton in full swing, those A320ceo family should come cheap. Are there still many RR 757 going around? I was under impression most 757 are PW powered and those are picked up for freighter conversion fast.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 594
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:38 am

juliuswong wrote:
There are many A321 went to storage recently, I can see Jet2 picking up a few now with A320neo family prodduciton in full swing, those A320ceo family should come cheap. Are there still many RR 757 going around? I was under impression most 757 are PW powered and those are picked up for freighter conversion fast.


Xiamen recently dumped their lat four RB211 birds, and they're all built between '01 and '04.

TUI is also dumping the rest of theirs next year and many are this age.

Crazy how a 1982 aircraft was built during those years :o
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
juliuswong
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:12 am

1989worstyear wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
There are many A321 went to storage recently, I can see Jet2 picking up a few now with A320neo family prodduciton in full swing, those A320ceo family should come cheap. Are there still many RR 757 going around? I was under impression most 757 are PW powered and those are picked up for freighter conversion fast.


Xiamen recently dumped their lat four RB211 birds, and they're all built between '01 and '04.

TUI is also dumping the rest of theirs next year and many are this age.

Crazy how a 1982 aircraft was built during those years :o

Xiamen aircraft most probably will be picked up for freighter conversion since SF Airlines is mopping up every available 757. They are expanding massively. Other possibility is China Air Cargo.

TUI 757 could be a possibility but they aren't young anymore, mostly average around 19 years old. But with right price, Jet2 might bite them!

Current available 757 on the market: https://www.myairtrade.com/fleetintel/B757
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:56 am

juliuswong wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
There are many A321 went to storage recently, I can see Jet2 picking up a few now with A320neo family prodduciton in full swing, those A320ceo family should come cheap. Are there still many RR 757 going around? I was under impression most 757 are PW powered and those are picked up for freighter conversion fast.


Xiamen recently dumped their lat four RB211 birds, and they're all built between '01 and '04.

TUI is also dumping the rest of theirs next year and many are this age.

Crazy how a 1982 aircraft was built during those years :o

Xiamen aircraft most probably will be picked up for freighter conversion since SF Airlines is mopping up every available 757. They are expanding massively. Other possibility is China Air Cargo.

TUI 757 could be a possibility but they aren't young anymore, mostly average around 19 years old. But with right price, Jet2 might bite them!

Current available 757 on the market: https://www.myairtrade.com/fleetintel/B757


I thought TUI still had several from 2003-04? Those were the ones I was referring to.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
juliuswong
Moderator
Posts: 1647
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Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:02 am

1989worstyear wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:

Xiamen recently dumped their lat four RB211 birds, and they're all built between '01 and '04.

TUI is also dumping the rest of theirs next year and many are this age.

Crazy how a 1982 aircraft was built during those years :o

Xiamen aircraft most probably will be picked up for freighter conversion since SF Airlines is mopping up every available 757. They are expanding massively. Other possibility is China Air Cargo.

TUI 757 could be a possibility but they aren't young anymore, mostly average around 19 years old. But with right price, Jet2 might bite them!

Current available 757 on the market: https://www.myairtrade.com/fleetintel/B757


I thought TUI still had several from 2003-04? Those were the ones I was referring to.

They do:
32447/ 951 G-OOBB Delivered: 6 Feb 2001
33098/ 1026 G-OOBC Delivered: 28 Mar 2003
33099/ 1028 G-OOBD Delivered: 31 Mar 2003
33100/ 1029 G-OOBE Delivered: 19 May 2003
33101/ 1041 G-OOBF Delivered: 19 Apr 2004

Source: https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... nt&sort=ln
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
bennett123
Posts: 8865
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Jet2 757 Fleet Replacement

Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:42 am

TUI have also just retired G-OOBG and G-OOBH both built in 1999.

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