OAG Changes 10/7/2018:AA +CLTRAP,+DFW-HRL/EYW, Drops CLTTUS,CZMMIA;AI Drops EWRLHR;B6 +BOSPSP;DE Drops AUS;DL +DTWLSE

FA9295 · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:09 pm

enilria wrote:
*DE FRA-PDX MAY 0.3>0[0.3]

So is this route getting dropped altogether, or is it just a temporary suspension...?

sldispatcher · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:12 pm

hoya wrote:
For UA at DEN, many of the flight times have changed too. Is this the launch of the DEN rebank that has been mentioned in many articles about UA? This article mentions a launch in February 2019. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 796251002/

I think so.
We (SHV) are getting a much more user friendly schedule in late Winter. Haven’t checked others yet.

LAX772LR · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:23 pm

flyPIT wrote:
As for DE I'll trust their website over anything else for now.

Even AFTER you've already been informed that (1) their website is frequently an inaccurate depiction of their schedules this far out, and (2) been shown a screenshot of DE's Sabre filings for the route, which was just updated last week?

...that's not particularly rational behavior, but I guess to each his own.

flyPIT · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:32 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
As for DE I'll trust their website over anything else for now.

Even AFTER you've already been informed that (1) their website is frequently an inaccurate depiction of their schedules this far out, and (2) been shown a screenshot of DE's Sabre filings for the route, which was just updated last week?

...that's not particularly rational behavior, but I guess to each his own.

So that screenshot is from last week, or shows data from last week, correct?

What is it showing for PHX-FRA for S19 in terms of frequency?

LAX772LR · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:37 pm

flyPIT wrote:
What is it showing for PHX-FRA for S19 in terms of frequency?

FIIK.

I don't have Sabre access, an acquaintance in NOLA pulled the filing.

compensateme · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:42 pm

DanDun wrote:
The AA flights from JFK-ATL will only run Feb 1-4, two flights a day on the A321T. I’m guessing these are super bowl adds. Interesting marketing idea.

If it’s for “The Big Game” (don’t want to get sued by the NFL

), then it’s pretty typical — there’s usually a crap ton of service from NYC (mix of schedule and chartered).

flyPIT · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:51 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
What is it showing for PHX-FRA for S19 in terms of frequency?

FIIK.

I don't have Sabre access, an acquaintance in NOLA pulled the filing.

So you are using Sabre data from a week ago and ignoring the website booking changes that were done within the past day or so? I don't think it's me being irrational here.

The reason I mention PHX is DE announced an increase in service for 2019 several months ago. However their website has been showing service reduced to 1x weekly to PHX for a little while now, so I'm wondering if Sabre matches that frequency. If so then I think the website is not the inaccurate mess being portrayed here.

lhpdx · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:51 pm

[photoid][/photoid]

FA9295 wrote:
enilria wrote:
*DE FRA-PDX MAY 0.3>0[0.3]

So is this route getting dropped altogether, or is it just a temporary suspension...?

Nope just with a later starting date June 7th.............

AAtakeMeAway · Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:47 pm

The TUS-JFK flight was subsidized by the Chamber. Was the CLT route also subsidized?

LAX772LR · Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:59 pm

flyPIT wrote:
So you are using Sabre data from a week ago and ignoring the website booking changes that were done within the past day or so?

You speak of ignoring, *while* you ignore the fact that that's what their website did last year as well-- before them commencing exactly what they filed: 2xWk.

Not really sure what else to tell you dude; if you wish to perpetuate your own (odd) denial, then I guess that's just your prerogative.

hiflyeras · Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:06 pm

Nice to see AS is returning to daily LAX-MZT. They'd had some bleak times down there the last ten years but it's a beautiful city and I hope this means things are picking up for them.

BoeingGuy · Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:26 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Nice to see AS is returning to daily LAX-MZT. They'd had some bleak times down there the last ten years but it's a beautiful city and I hope this means things are picking up for them.

AS dropped SFO-MZT and the seasonal SEA-MZT years ago. Will those come back?

usflyer msp · Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:31 am

enilria wrote:
enilria wrote:
**AA CZM-MIA APR 0.9>0.0[0.9] MAY 0.8>0[0.8] JUN 1.0>0[1.0] JUL 1.0>0[1.0]

To me this was a big surprise. Particularly with other Caribbean islands still depleted from past hurricanes. I realize it will probably be seasonal, but amazing it can't support yearround into the biggest Latin hub...not even on weekends!

Interesting, especially as the year round weekend flights to CLT are still loaded. Will CZM be the only LatAm/Caribbean destination with CLT service but no MIA flights?

bnatraveler · Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:32 am

flyPIT wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
As for DE I'll trust their website over anything else for now.

Even AFTER you've already been informed that (1) their website is frequently an inaccurate depiction of their schedules this far out, and (2) been shown a screenshot of DE's Sabre filings for the route, which was just updated last week?

...that's not particularly rational behavior, but I guess to each his own.

So that screenshot is from last week, or shows data from last week, correct?

What is it showing for PHX-FRA for S19 in terms of frequency?

PHX-FRA

S08JULPHXFRA./D/ES«                                             
 08JUL  MON - 22JUL  MON   PHX/MST     FRA/‡9                   
1DE 2027 C  D  I  P  Y  O  A *PHXFRA 2055 1700‡1 76W 0 1 DC /E  
         B  M  H  V  K  E  T  U                                 
06MAY - 21OCT                                                   
2DE 2027 C  D  I  P  Y  O  A *PHXFRA 2055 1700‡1 76W 0 36 DC /E 
         B  M  H  V  K  E  T  U                                 
12JUN - 19OCT                                                   
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX.

AUS-FRA (no DE, only LH)

S08JULAUSFRA./D/ES«                                             
 08JUL  MON - 22JUL  MON   AUS/CDT     FRA/‡7                   
1LH  469 J  C  D  Z  P  G *AUSFRA 1605 0910‡1 333 M 0 X24 DC /E 
         E  N  Y  B  M  U  H  Q  V                              
14JUN - 08SEP                                                   
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX.

SumChristianus · Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:45 am

UA has definitely launched the rebanked DEN schedule and I really like the new flight times especially the earlier departures from Midwest/Eastern destinations to DEN.
I would have preferred that they also have a late night expanded 10 pm westbound bank and a similar 8-10 pm eastbound bank but overall it's a good start although mainline seems to be on the wrong DEN-IND-DEN flight so far from next summer.
I'll have a super high level summary of the new bank structure in a bit.

Chasensfo · Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:29 am

WOW Air was daily all summer on KEF-SFO, even with Iceland Air on the route. I hope that WOW at least keeps SFO summer seasonal, their big purple A330s are one of the most interesting movements in my opinion, and the crews are very cool. For now, anyway, they plan an April return:

https://www.sfgate.com/chris-mcginnis/article/Routes-WOW-cuts-SFO-13284513.php

SumChristianus · Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:44 am

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1383689&p=20769273#p20769273

Here is some brief information on the new bank-structure for DEN on UA.
Pretty massive changes for the morning flights, evenings look pretty similar to what is currently being operated, I hope more is planned.
Could this be only a partial load of UA's changes for some reason?

Begins February 14th, 2019

EarlyLateORD · Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:11 am

Please delete if this question was already asked (i didnt see that it was)..what aircraft is LH using on Austin-FRA?

Adam

Bigant0408 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:15 am

EarlyLateORD wrote:
Please delete if this question was already asked (i didnt see that it was)..what aircraft is LH using on Austin-FRA?

Adam

A330-300

Sancho99504 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:10 am

TUSDawg23 wrote:
CLT-TUS going away next year is unfortunate, but not unexpected. I just don't think AA could get enough connecting traffic from TUS flowing to CLT when they have DFW and ORD to fill that void. So far AA has failed to make JFK and now CLT work from TUS. I'd love to see DL or B6 offer a seasonal JFK route, but it's just tough to make anything east of the Mississippi work for TUS that isn't ATL or CHI.

Didn't B6 operate and drop JFK-TUS a couple of years ago?

Sancho99504 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:14 am

usairways85 wrote:
A lot of AA PHL cuts in January. Some just a carry over from last year, some not. Not all that surprising. But I still don't understand less than daily flights on PHL-DEN/SEA.

I think PHL-SEA operated less than daily 2 or 3 months the last 2 winters. Still interesting since they operate up to 3 daily during from April/May to September/October.
I think they might be able to move connecting passengers thru ORD-SEA and DFW-SEA with higher yields. Even CLT-SEA has more than 1 daily during the winter most days.

Sancho99504 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:17 am

Adipocere wrote:
More cuts from PHX, with at least BOI and BUR increasing to DFW at the same time....

I wouldn't look too much into that. Expect to see those frequency changes flip flop in the spring.

chepos · Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:24 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
TUSDawg23 wrote:
CLT-TUS going away next year is unfortunate, but not unexpected. I just don't think AA could get enough connecting traffic from TUS flowing to CLT when they have DFW and ORD to fill that void. So far AA has failed to make JFK and now CLT work from TUS. I'd love to see DL or B6 offer a seasonal JFK route, but it's just tough to make anything east of the Mississippi work for TUS that isn't ATL or CHI.

Didn't B6 operate and drop JFK-TUS a couple of years ago?

Yes they did, dropped in 2008. I do not see DL adding JFK, even MSP is seasonal and they do not even fly DTW out of TUS.

crownvic · Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:49 am

enilria wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I think we all saw Condor dropping the Austin route at some point.

I feel bad for Condor. They are being used as R&D by the other carriers.
usairways85 wrote:
A lot of AA PHL cuts in January. Some just a carry over from last year, some not. Not all that surprising. But I still don't understand less than daily flights on PHL-DEN/SEA.

I expect more cuts to fund all the new routes.

That "R&D" has been going on at LAS for 25 years

sagechan · Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:49 am

TYSflyer wrote:
Kind of hate seeing the loss in frequency on DCA-CRW. It appears to be a permanent drop to daily service. I guess the route recently changed to CRJ-200 couldn’t sustain the frequency previously operated by the Dash.

It's been reduced each time there has been a change in aircraft in the last few years. 3x Colgan Saab 340, 2x Piedmont DH1, now 1x PSA CRJ. New schedule is CRW-DCA early morning with evening return. It's typically a terrible performer with loads, wouldn't be surprised to see it dropped eventually. Would have liked to see a similar scheduled PHL rotation added in though.

lavalampluva · Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:00 am

CLT-RAP seems an odd addition.

mtnwest1979 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:02 am

lavalampluva wrote:
CLT-RAP seems an odd addition.

Why? Summer season add from a lage hub to a vacation spot. Probably a few seniors in the SE that want to visit Mt Rushmore.

As for BOI-PHX/DFW on AA, lately they seem to have multiple Mesa CR9 swapping with 2A319/320. Hopefully the two DFW will do well enough w the 175s

tlecam · Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:41 am

AA BOS-DFW JAN 7>5[6] FEB 7>6[6]
AA BOS-JFK JAN 5>4[2.0]
AA BOS-LAX JAN 6>4[5] FEB 6>5[5]
AA BOS-ORD JAN 10>6[7] FEB 10>8[7]
AA BOS-PHX JAN 4>3[4]

Interesting; BOS must be fairly weak across the board for AA in Jan. The trimmed a flight a day YoY in January, but resumed normal levels in Feb for the most part. Added another daily flight to ORD.

I wonder if any of it is offset with upgauges?

JFK does see two more flights a day; I wonder if that is sitting on slots.

jfklganyc · Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:19 pm

Sure is sitting on slots

Tailwinds13 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:43 pm

AI dropping the lucrative metro NYC-LON I see. I flew the route and wasn’t the most impressed, however was a cheap alternative to other EWR/PHL options.

kcrwflyer · Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:55 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
Kind of hate seeing the loss in frequency on DCA-CRW. It appears to be a permanent drop to daily service. I guess the route recently changed to CRJ-200 couldn’t sustain the frequency previously operated by the Dash.

If you can's sustain a service you shouldn't have it. I wish my home town's economy had a pulse.

TYSflyer · Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:17 pm

kcrwflyer wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
Kind of hate seeing the loss in frequency on DCA-CRW. It appears to be a permanent drop to daily service. I guess the route recently changed to CRJ-200 couldn’t sustain the frequency previously operated by the Dash.

If you can's sustain a service you shouldn't have it. I wish my home town's economy had a pulse.

I know exactly what you mean. I have spent a significant amount of time in the state through the years. West Virginia is near and dear to my heart. It is an absolutely beautiful state but definitely has its share of economical struggles. With the national economy right now most state capitals should be gaining air service but that does not seem to be the case for CRW.

enilria · Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:23 pm

n2dru wrote:
AA ATL-JFK FEB 0>0.3[0]

American starting ATLJFK hmm. They are already on the LGA route. Now JFK. Up against DL and B6. Should be interesting. ATL NYC is a large market though.

That appears to be a few one-offs. No idea...

FA9295 wrote:
So is this route getting dropped altogether, or is it just a temporary suspension...?

Delayed start

mtnwest1979 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
CLT-RAP seems an odd addition.

Why? Summer season add from a lage hub to a vacation spot. Probably a few seniors in the SE that want to visit Mt Rushmore.

It's a non-traditional market from the SE.

hiflyeras · Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:27 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
AS dropped SFO-MZT and the seasonal SEA-MZT years ago. Will those come back?

I'd be really shocked to see SEA-MZT return...it only operated on weekends if I recall. I could see SFO-MZT but AS seems unwilling to take risks right now out of SFO with the price of fuel pretty high. It's the Canadians that seem to have an endless love for MZT more so than U.S. people. As long as there's service from YVR I don't see AS adding much.

evank516 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:58 pm

CIDFlyer wrote:
DFW - HRL is a good add, surprised it took this long. They didn’t serve BRO either until the past few years and that’s up to CR7 service now. It’s probably come at the expense of MFE though used to be all mainline but now RJs

DL LSE-DTW a good add as well going east

This is so ironic. I'm flying JFK-MSP-LSE in December. I have a potential client that lives near by so this will be helpful flying there from NYC.

SunsetLimited · Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:10 pm

flyPIT wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
What is it showing for PHX-FRA for S19 in terms of frequency?

FIIK.

I don't have Sabre access, an acquaintance in NOLA pulled the filing.

So you are using Sabre data from a week ago and ignoring the website booking changes that were done within the past day or so? I don't think it's me being irrational here.

The reason I mention PHX is DE announced an increase in service for 2019 several months ago. However their website has been showing service reduced to 1x weekly to PHX for a little while now, so I'm wondering if Sabre matches that frequency. If so then I think the website is not the inaccurate mess being portrayed here.

SiTA DCS (similar to Sabre it’s a GDS) shows both PHX and MSY as twice-weekly to FRA.

MSY is Mon/Thu though PHX goes from Mon/Fri to Wed/Sat at some point.

Also as a test I did a dummy booking on Orbitz and MSY is for sale on Mondays and Thursdays.

So I presume like last year, the DE website is slow to catch up, for whatever reason.

chepos · Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:13 pm

SunsetLimited wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
FIIK.

I don't have Sabre access, an acquaintance in NOLA pulled the filing.

So you are using Sabre data from a week ago and ignoring the website booking changes that were done within the past day or so? I don't think it's me being irrational here.

The reason I mention PHX is DE announced an increase in service for 2019 several months ago. However their website has been showing service reduced to 1x weekly to PHX for a little while now, so I'm wondering if Sabre matches that frequency. If so then I think the website is not the inaccurate mess being portrayed here.

SiTA DCS (similar to Sabre it’s a GDS) shows both PHX and MSY as twice-weekly to FRA.

MSY is Mon/Thu though PHX goes from Mon/Fri to Wed/Sat at some point.

Also as a test I did a dummy booking on Orbitz and MSY is for sale on Mondays and Thursdays.

So I presume like last year, the DE website is slow to catch up, for whatever reason.

Glad to see PHX coming back next year, it was a route US should have started while in Star.

FSDan · Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:14 pm

CLT-RAP on AA and LAX-BZN on UA are seasonal resumptions of routes flown last year...

It's too bad to see TUS-CLT dropped (assuming it's a year-round drop). I'm taking that flight later this month as it provided the best schedule option for a long weekend in Savannah. Red eyes are no fun (especially a 3-hour flight like TUS-CLT), but to me they can be worth it for shorter trips where otherwise you'd lose a day traveling.

ericm2031 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:22 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1383689&p=20769273#p20769273

Here is some brief information on the new bank-structure for DEN on UA.
Pretty massive changes for the morning flights, evenings look pretty similar to what is currently being operated, I hope more is planned.
Could this be only a partial load of UA's changes for some reason?

Begins February 14th, 2019

Might only be partially loaded as they just announced DEN-ACV/CHS today as part of the re-banking, which will be loaded on the regular Saturday release. Could be more to come, but maybe it's just these 2 flights that will be put in.

RushmoreAir · Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:33 pm

FSDan wrote:
CLT-RAP on AA and LAX-BZN on UA are seasonal resumptions of routes flown last year...

CLT-RAP was Sat/Sun only this past summer (its first season) so exciting to see it go daily for next summer!

Now, on weekends in summer, RAP will have: ATL, CLT, DEN, DFW, EWR, IAH*, MSP, ORD, SLC, plus the sub-daily G4 service to AZA / LAS other days of the week. Not bad for a place that two decades ago only saw 6x total daily flights and 100k enplanements.

*IAH not loaded yet for 2019 but was a late load the last two years

UpNAWAy · Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:51 am

Keep in mind for any AA reductions they have almost all of the domestic fleet going through interior conversions this winter and spring. Not to mention Wi-Fi upgrade to broadband.

RamblinMan · Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:38 am

DanDun wrote:
The AA flights from JFK-ATL will only run Feb 1-4, two flights a day on the A321T. I’m guessing these are super bowl adds. Interesting marketing idea.

With only Y-inventory for sale at a cool $1900 r/t. No business or first listed for sale at all.

KD5MDK · Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:59 am

Wonder if that's already sold to premium partners.

NolaMD88fan · Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:56 am

SunsetLimited wrote:
SiTA DCS (similar to Sabre it’s a GDS) shows both PHX and MSY as twice-weekly to FRA.

MSY is Mon/Thu though PHX goes from Mon/Fri to Wed/Sat at some point.

Also as a test I did a dummy booking on Orbitz and MSY is for sale on Mondays and Thursdays.

So I presume like last year, the DE website is slow to catch up, for whatever reason.

The DE website also finally shows the 2x weekly flights to MSY. The typically slow updates of the DE website continue. They still have AUS listed as a US destination even though it's been zeroed out.

freakyrat · Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:05 pm

SBN-EWR is suspended for three months and will return in April.

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