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GalebG4
Topic Author
Posts: 241
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:49 pm

Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:08 pm

They fly to France, Spain, Holland and Germany but only to and From UK. Why don’t they fly in rest of Europe. EU opend markets for everyone but to me flybe looks like has only concentrated one country with some exemptions. There is bunch of unserved point to point traffic In Europe so why not tapping into that.
 
jubaexpress
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 10:51 am

Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:15 pm

Because they can barely do what they do properly...
They are a small British company focusing mostly on regional and domestic flights and codeshares.
 
konkret
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:27 pm

They tried flying from Hannover to Lyon and Milan and closed those routes really quick.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:29 pm

They've had a franchise in the Baltic countries a few years ago, but they had to pull out because it wasn't profitable.

The strongest market is always the home market, that's where you got brand awareness. That's where people know you. In another country you got to build up that brand awareness all over again, which is very tough. Outside the UK Flybe is basically unknown, or only known for flights to the UK.

Another British airline, Jet2, sticks to the UK for the same reason. It's their home market, it's where they got brand awareness. Outside the UK people don't know them.
 
DalRiada
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Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:55 pm

They also fly from the U.K. to six locations in Ireland.
 
TC957
Posts: 3871
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:37 pm

When they put in that original massive order for 70 firm plus 70 options for the E-175's a few years back, the plan was for a pan-European LCC operation service from secondary regional airport hubs. Reality soon set in as we all know. FR, U2 and others muscled in on many of Flybe's target routes and that huge E175 order was whittled down to just 24 and then they cancelled deliveries after the 11 already taken.
There's still much they can do to improve efficiency and reliability on UK domestic and local routes.
A few more UK point-to-point routes could be tried first before any more expansion to Europe, LGW-MAN and LCY - LPL perhaps.
Fares are too high for a lot of travelers. I wanted to use them for SOU - GLA in November for my company annual conference weekend but despite booking months ahead easyJet from LGW was less than half the cost.
 
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EGTESkyGod
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Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:35 am

jubaexpress wrote:
Because they can barely do what they do properly...
They are a small British company focusing mostly on regional and domestic flights and codeshares.


This pretty much hits the nail on the head. The "Brand Awareness" argument holds water too, and while there is a niche market for those European routes to tap into it would perhaps make sense for a European based airline to do so. That they don't already may speak volumes. Could the Brexit negotiations also have an effect? Genuine question.
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Cunard
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Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:01 pm

GalebG4 wrote:
They fly to France, Spain, Holland and Germany but only to and From UK. Why don’t they fly in rest of Europe. EU opend markets for everyone but to me flybe looks like has only concentrated one country with some exemptions. There is bunch of unserved point to point traffic In Europe so why not tapping into that.


Flybe have an extensive network within the United Kingdom as that is where the airlines history lies having previously been known as Jersey European Airways before rebranding into BEA British European Airways and finally in 2002 to it's current name of Flybe.

Flybe have scheduled flights from the United Kingdom to several European countries and more than the four that you have listed, they are,

Austria
Belgium (Stobart franchise)
Croatia (Stobart franchise)
France
Germany
Ireland
Italy
Netherlands
Portugal
Spain
Switzerland
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:07 pm

Cunard wrote:
Flybe have scheduled flights from the United Kingdom to several European countries and more than the four that you have listed, they are,


True, but each of their flights touches the UK at at least one point. They don't fly any routes from outside the UK to outside the UK. And for good reason, lack of brand awareness.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:09 pm

FlyBe's business model is ultimately based around a series of combined niches;

Islands with no other fast transport option
Regional airports, with catchment areas / runways that cannot support major mainline / LCC operations
Geographically constrained regions (think water) with poor overland transport links

Now apply this 'success' formula to Europe, and you have some problems. In Spain you have Air Nostrum occupying FlyBe's role, in France you have HOP, Germany has Eurowings etc... plus you have HSR as a highly viable alternative. And being part of the European mainland, there are fewer regions which are geographically constrained and suffer from poor road links. Regions like Scandinavia and Finland would, on the face of it, be more more suitable, but they already have well established carriers... plus FlyBe tried operations in Finland with FlyBe Nordic and it was so successful that they ended up selling their 60% stake for a whole 1 Euro.

So to throw the question back to you @GalebG4, where are all these unserved P2P routes which would be suitable for their business model?
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
konkret
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:54 pm

AFAIK Flybe Nordic was just a way for Finnair to try lower the cost of its regional flying, it took over Finnair's regional aircraft and routes and flew on its behalf, so it had nothing to do with FlyBe business strategy as an independent airline.
 
GalebG4
Topic Author
Posts: 241
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:49 pm

Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:02 am

PlymSpotter wrote:
FlyBe's business model is ultimately based around a series of combined niches;

Islands with no other fast transport option
Regional airports, with catchment areas / runways that cannot support major mainline / LCC operations
Geographically constrained regions (think water) with poor overland transport links

Now apply this 'success' formula to Europe, and you have some problems. In Spain you have Air Nostrum occupying FlyBe's role, in France you have HOP, Germany has Eurowings etc... plus you have HSR as a highly viable alternative. And being part of the European mainland, there are fewer regions which are geographically constrained and suffer from poor road links. Regions like Scandinavia and Finland would, on the face of it, be more more suitable, but they already have well established carriers... plus FlyBe tried operations in Finland with FlyBe Nordic and it was so successful that they ended up selling their 60% stake for a whole 1 Euro.

So to throw the question back to you @GalebG4, where are all these unserved P2P routes which would be suitable for their business model?


For example many small airports in Balkans don’t have connection to London because of small demand Tuzla airport or Niš. In Tuzla wizz air tried to Luton but there wasn’t enough of demand so e190 or e175 would fit perfectly. If you look at Croatian cost there’s a lot of small airports that needed to be served. For example Brač would be perfect because of small runway and alternative to Split. Zadar, Pula, also Osijek in which small demand on some routes would be key to save them from big LCC’s. I think there’s a lot of routes that are under 20000 passengers not enough for lcc’s but enough for regional players like flybe. They can also try seasonal routes that are not served in winter by big lcc’s but there is still demand to fill regional jet. But biggest issue that Flybe has I think is extremely high CASK. Might be wrong but Volotea showed us that brand doesn’t always play big role and 135 seat boeing 717 can work . Volotea is serving routes that big players can’t so that is probably biggest key to success. 186-239 seats airlines are extremely difficult to fill during autumn and winter so that might be answer.
 
GalebG4
Topic Author
Posts: 241
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:49 pm

Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:42 am

PlymSpotter wrote:
FlyBe's business model is ultimately based around a series of combined niches;

Islands with no other fast transport option
Regional airports, with catchment areas / runways that cannot support major mainline / LCC operations
Geographically constrained regions (think water) with poor overland transport links

Now apply this 'success' formula to Europe, and you have some problems. In Spain you have Air Nostrum occupying FlyBe's role, in France you have HOP, Germany has Eurowings etc... plus you have HSR as a highly viable alternative. And being part of the European mainland, there are fewer regions which are geographically constrained and suffer from poor road links. Regions like Scandinavia and Finland would, on the face of it, be more more suitable, but they already have well established carriers... plus FlyBe tried operations in Finland with FlyBe Nordic and it was so successful that they ended up selling their 60% stake for a whole 1 Euro.

So to throw the question back to you @GalebG4, where are all these unserved P2P routes which would be suitable for their business model?


Look at Ryanair second biggest base Dublin: Seasonal Bremen, Lublin, Memmingen, Salzburg, Tallinn and Tourin. Laudamotion Innsbruck so here are the answers. Fly e175 in winter seasonal on this routes. All of this are European continental routes without of enough demand for full year service so there’s niche market for Flybe. St.John is not served during winter so why not to try. Around Europe there is a lot of routes like these, so why not using only advantage of small cabin if it maksa sense. But if people from flybe don’t care so why should I care.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 961
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:40 pm

A route to somewhere like Brac is highly seasonal. Great for 3 months of the year, but lousy in the other 9 months.

Wizzair has considerably lower CASK with an A320 / A321 that has approx 200 seats compared to Flybe. Routes to places like Tuzla and Nis or Osijek are very price sensitive - VFR pax travelling to/from low or middle income regions are often happy to spend a bit longer travelling if it keeps the price down as opposed to Flybe's core market of people who prefer to pay more for a shorter journey time

Flybe as a business model generally tries the routes with low seasonality - eg connecting island or routes lik Southampton-Edinburgh with year round demand.

If by St John you mean the airport in Canada, I think Flybe would find profitability to be highly challenging
 
kanye
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:32 am

Re: Why Flybe is just concentrated on UK isles?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:17 pm

They are also flying 5 ATR72-600s out of Stockholm for SAS.

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