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Mortyman
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:27 pm

yowza wrote:
It's crazy to see how much Norwegian plays in the market which a few short years ago would have been 100% unthinkable. Do, however, spend a few seconds to examine the doublespeak. The biggest foreign airline would be Air Canada but the article sticks "transatlantic" in there BUUUUUT not all DY pax ex-JFK are flying transatlantic. Let's not forget 6 weekly flights to both FDF and PTP. So with some simple back of the napkin math, this claim can be shown to be demonstrably false.

2 destinations * 186 seats per flight * 2 sectors (in/out) * 0.25 load factor * 6 flights a week * 52 weeks yields = 58,032 pax carried
So if JFK-FDF-JFK and JFK-PTP-JFK are running at just 25% LF then BA still has the upper hand in what is already an idiotic comparison because 1.67M-58k < 1.63M.


I believe the flights you are mentioning are seasonal and are flown in the autumn / winter months and not July, but I could be wrong.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:50 pm

30 year old 747s on a flagship route.

Building towards the future.

Oh, and their JFK terminal is about to be torn down against their will.

It is almost comical...except it is real!
 
slowrambler
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:38 pm

JBLUA320 wrote:
So many of you are completely missing the point.

The point was that, excluding Air Canada, British Airways was the largest foreign carrier in terms of passengers flown to/from the New York City area. As of July, Norwegian bumped British Airways out of that spot. The metric is PASSENGERS FLOWN - not routes. This isn't a reflection of BA losing significant share on LON-NYC, it's that BA is no longer carrying the most passengers in/out of NYC. That's it!


The real question is why anyone should care. It's being presented as if it's a meaningful metric.
 
Arion640
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:46 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
30 year old 747s on a flagship route.

Building towards the future.



Most are closer to 20 than 30 and to be fair the high J’s are in pretty good condition. Mid J’s not so much.
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VS11
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:56 pm

Great accomplishment for Norwegian. Great for their brand recognition/promotion. IAG collectively may be bigger but IAG is not a brand. People don’t think “oh shall I fly Norwegian or IAG to Europe?”
 
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shamrock350
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:01 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
BA doesn't really offer anything to keep the masses. This will only get worse.

They nickel and dime you just like Norweigan. Norweigan offers nice new planes at fantastic prices. The legacies don't really have an answer other than forming their own LCC..........enter Level.

Someone else who has missed the point and fallen for the marketing bluff..

British Airways has seen no reduction in numbers, they are still the revenue and passenger leader on the LON-NYC market. It's just that Norwegian have launched a huge number of routes from Europe to the NYC area which has obviously resulted is large numbers.

The masses are still very much with British Airways and this is just further enhanced with IAG involvement.
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:06 pm

The real issue, of course, is customer expectations. People expect the BA brand to be great and these days tend to be rather disappointed. People don't expect much from Norwegian and, like myself, end up pleasantly surprised by how nice they are. Excellent value for the money. I think BA is wisely focusing away from highly competitive markets like LA, NYC and SF to take advantage of niche opportunities like BNA, MSY, PIT and SJC where fliers are much more grateful just to have the opportunity to fly them.
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:08 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
BA doesn't really offer anything to keep the masses. This will only get worse.

They nickel and dime you just like Norweigan. Norweigan offers nice new planes at fantastic prices. The legacies don't really have an answer other than forming their own LCC..........enter Level.


I really don't think BA/IAG could give a hoot about this metric. LHR-JFK is BA's blue riband route and is where BA put their best foot forward in the premium cabins. When they brought in the fully flat beds in Club World JFK was the first route to guarantee them. Theit most recently developed 747s operate on the route, it's where the new Club World service was first trialled.

For BA the JFK route is extremely important for premium revenue, somewhere that Norwegian don't even bother to compete. BA chase a completely different customer on the JFK route than DY. I think if BA flew empty Y cabins between LHR and JFK they wouldn't really care, as long as the premium revenue holds.
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airzona11
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:12 pm

Impressive Norwegian growth. Not all bad for BA. The legacy carriers are optimizing for yield. It is why the A380 is not selling like hotcakes. BA operates low density/heavy premium configs. BA wants the highest yielding. Their model isn't dependent on max capacity / CASM.

Shows the beauty of competition.
 
hooverman
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:29 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
hooverman wrote:
The fierce reactions are a surprise.


Not really. People on this site are very attached to their favorite and/or employer airline so it's understandable even when it's irrational.

The article is saying that Norwegian is now the largest foreign transatlantic carrier. BA previously held that spot. Who else would they compare them to?


Yeah it’s a article with a silly comparison.
It happens all the time by airports, airliners and manufacturers. They scamble with numbers for publicity.
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:37 pm

rbavfan wrote:
Always wondered when Brexit is done, how will Norwegian still operate US-UK? The way they do it now is based on the EU regs. Those fly out the window when the exit is done. Why would UK allow those ops at that point. They will not have to.

Long haul out of LGW to the US since March this year has been on G registered 789s with a UK AOC (DI), in that case Brexit wouldn't put these services in jeopardy. (This in comparison to say PF, which unlike DY, U2 or W6, had shown no indications of any UK or cross-EU-UK entity prior to shutdown whilst having a base at STN, or planning one at BHX.)

BFS/EDI to SWF/PVD on the other hand are done with Irish 737 MAXs and an Irish AOC (D8), but TATL from BFS and EDI will by gone by next summer where expansion has already been going to DUB.
Last edited by mooseofspruce on Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:41 pm

I understand all of the above. And with all the BA rhetoric I hear, they've treated me well over the years. BUT as a person paying for my own flights, I still am in awe that the legacies (BA, KL, AF, LH, AC, AA, UA, DL) charge high one way prices to force you to buy rt whereas someone like Norwegian (or Icelandair, WOW, etc.) provide reasonable one-way fares. This draws me to them so that I can mix and match, open-jaw etc. IF BA offered reasonable one-way fares, I'd be booking them more often.
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:53 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
I think BA is wisely focusing away from highly competitive markets like LA, NYC and SF to take advantage of niche opportunities like BNA, MSY, PIT and SJC where fliers are much more grateful just to have the opportunity to fly them.


Are you seriously suggesting that BA should scale back at NYC/LA/SF, arguably the 3 most important US markets, and probably with NYC being BAs single most important destination. Yeah, maybe they should shut down the whole airline then.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:02 pm

Mortyman wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Mortyman wrote:


That’s a lot of bollocked data you are using. To lump all of the various Norwegian alias Airlines together to get that headline and not allow BA to include its other carries of IAG is a bad comparison.



I am not using anything. New York Port authority is presenting the airlines this way. How you read their pdf, is is a different matter.


Why are you taking this out on me ?

Glad to see you are still here mcdu …. I have almost missed you … :-)


You have a Norwegian avatar. Should we be surprised that you are biased?

But really, the #1 carrier should be a US carrier, not an EU carrier. After all, each of the US3 is larger than any EU carrier, even the entire IAG.
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:28 pm

Swadian wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
mcdu wrote:

That’s a lot of bollocked data you are using. To lump all of the various Norwegian alias Airlines together to get that headline and not allow BA to include its other carries of IAG is a bad comparison.



I am not using anything. New York Port authority is presenting the airlines this way. How you read their pdf, is is a different matter.


Why are you taking this out on me ?

Glad to see you are still here mcdu …. I have almost missed you … :-)


You have a Norwegian avatar. Should we be surprised that you are biased?

But really, the #1 carrier should be a US carrier, not an EU carrier. After all, each of the US3 is larger than any EU carrier, even the entire IAG.


You know we are talking largest FOREIGN airline. The US3s numbers are in this case irrelevant.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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Mortyman
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:31 pm

Swadian wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
mcdu wrote:

That’s a lot of bollocked data you are using. To lump all of the various Norwegian alias Airlines together to get that headline and not allow BA to include its other carries of IAG is a bad comparison.



I am not using anything. New York Port authority is presenting the airlines this way. How you read their pdf, is is a different matter.


Why are you taking this out on me ?

Glad to see you are still here mcdu …. I have almost missed you … :-)


You have a Norwegian avatar. Should we be surprised that you are biased?

But really, the #1 carrier should be a US carrier, not an EU carrier. After all, each of the US3 is larger than any EU carrier, even the entire IAG.


No one is questioning the size of US carriers. As pointed out in original post and also in article, this is about non US carriers.


I have the Norwegian flag as avatar yes, just like some others has the US flag or various airlines that they have a special liking to . It's that really the best you got ?

You'll be happy to know that I try to fly as many airlines from various countries as I can.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:40 pm

mcdu wrote:
That’s a lot of bollocked data you are using. To lump all of the various Norwegian alias Airlines together to get that headline and not allow BA to include its other carries of IAG is a bad comparison.

Mortyman isn't using anything. He didn't write the press bulletin.

To the general public Norwegian is one company, all its aircraft carry the name Norwegian. British Airways is another company, just like Aer Lingus and Iberia.

Norwegian flies more passengers to the New York area than British Airways. That's just the way it is.

This is not about revenue or airline groups, but about passengers numbers. There is no need to get upset.
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:57 pm

mcdu wrote:
planesarecool wrote:
The anti-Norwegian rhetoric on this forum is both hilarious and embarrassing. The fact that people are so offended by the company is laughable.

Not sure offended is a proper term. (...) I only hope jet fuel continues to rise. That will hopefully end the Norwegian experiment more quickly.

What a sad reply. I hope jet fuel goes down again. And that Norwegian keeps flying. As an aircraft spotter I think planes are cool. ;) So I enjoy seeing British Airways and Norwegian, hopefully for a long time.
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:14 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
30 year old 747s on a flagship route.

Personally, as an aviation enthusiast, I will always take a 747 flight over a 787 flight.
 
jumpjets
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:14 pm

I can’t understand why there is so much angst going on. The article takes one statistic and draws a valid conclusion from that one statistic. A.netters can criticise the value of the statistic but we can’t deny the truth of the conclusion - Norwegian flys more people to New York than BA.

If people want to prove that BA are more profitable/fly more people to the USA as a whole etc there are plenty more statistics out there that will prove your point.

Don’t forget the old saying ‘there are lies, damned lies and statistics’.
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:30 pm

I've flown both. I will never set foot onto a Norwegian flight again. BA has some service glitches from time to time, but in the 10ish times I've flown them, there is no comparison to Norwegian. Sooner or later, all this expansion is going to bite Norwegian in the butt.
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:34 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
mcdu wrote:
planesarecool wrote:
The anti-Norwegian rhetoric on this forum is both hilarious and embarrassing. The fact that people are so offended by the company is laughable.

Not sure offended is a proper term. (...) I only hope jet fuel continues to rise. That will hopefully end the Norwegian experiment more quickly.

What a sad reply. I hope jet fuel goes down again. And that Norwegian keeps flying. As an aircraft spotter I think planes are cool. ;) So I enjoy seeing British Airways and Norwegian, hopefully for a long time.


With all my respects to the whole community, this is the greatest post I have read in quite a few weeks here. Bravo!
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:38 pm

Where is this crown that Norwegian took from BA and when is the ceremony?
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:41 pm

BA generates more revenue in F and J than DY does across every seat. Just because they carry more economy passengers than BA from multiple cities, in multiple countries to the New York area doesn't mean jack.
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JayBCNLON
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:17 pm

After Brexit the role of the UK and BA will further diminish:
- UK being less of a „bridgehead“ or convenient entry into the EU
- UK being seen as nationalist country
- UK politics and politicians preoccupied with a theme that really fiesnt best fruit
Xetbm cv
 
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sergegva
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:22 pm

You can't blame newspapers for comparing Norwegian to British Airways. For the general public, Norwegian is one and the same airline, regardless of its financial arrangements. There's one name, one livery, one website. British Airways, Iberia and Aer Lingus are three airlines with three names, three liveries and three websites. Simple as that.

Reuters is not an agency specialized in aviation, but a generalist agency.
 
VS11
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:27 pm

mcdu wrote:
I only hope jet fuel continues to rise. That will hopefully end the Norwegian experiment more quickly.


Higher jet fuel gives advantage to airlines flying newer and more fuel efficient planes. BA flies a lot of older generation B747 and B777 over the Atlantic. So not sure how higher jet fuel helps your cause - compared to the competition, Norwegian's cost will be lower.....
 
skipness1E
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:12 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
The real issue, of course, is customer expectations. People expect the BA brand to be great and these days tend to be rather disappointed. People don't expect much from Norwegian and, like myself, end up pleasantly surprised by how nice they are. Excellent value for the money. I think BA is wisely focusing away from highly competitive markets like LA, NYC and SF to take advantage of niche opportunities like BNA, MSY, PIT and SJC where fliers are much more grateful just to have the opportunity to fly them.

They are not focussing away from anywhere, they’re adding in capacity elsewhere as an addition.
 
skipness1E
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:15 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
After Brexit the role of the UK and BA will further diminish:
- UK being less of a „bridgehead“ or convenient entry into the EU
- UK being seen as nationalist country
- UK politics and politicians preoccupied with a theme that really fiesnt best fruit
Xetbm cv

Claptrap.
Politics hasn’t even dented Turkish Airlines, good service and reliable aircraft trump all. Can we stop blaming EVERYTHING on Brexit? If it’s such an awful place to live, the amazing EU is a mere hop over the channel, have a word as Sangatte and pass the word on your way x
 
mcdu
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:09 am

VS11 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
I only hope jet fuel continues to rise. That will hopefully end the Norwegian experiment more quickly.


Higher jet fuel gives advantage to airlines flying newer and more fuel efficient planes. BA flies a lot of older generation B747 and B777 over the Atlantic. So not sure how higher jet fuel helps your cause - compared to the competition, Norwegian's cost will be lower.....


An airline like BA can raise prices to cover a
rise in fuel. An “airline” like Norwegian that relies on cheap tickets to get passenger numbers won’t be able to pass on cost increases. Gas prices have killed many carriers over the years. Norwegian May be a future victim.
 
tphuang
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:32 am

one airline cares about making money and the other one cares about market share. You can always find people willing to cross the atlantic ocean at basement fares.
 
VS11
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:41 am

mcdu wrote:
VS11 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
I only hope jet fuel continues to rise. That will hopefully end the Norwegian experiment more quickly.


Higher jet fuel gives advantage to airlines flying newer and more fuel efficient planes. BA flies a lot of older generation B747 and B777 over the Atlantic. So not sure how higher jet fuel helps your cause - compared to the competition, Norwegian's cost will be lower.....


An airline like BA can raise prices to cover a
rise in fuel. An “airline” like Norwegian that relies on cheap tickets to get passenger numbers won’t be able to pass on cost increases. Gas prices have killed many carriers over the years. Norwegian May be a future victim.


You really need to check your reasoning. Norwegian can raise prices and still be lower than BA. B77W is 34% more expensive to operate than a B789 and B747 is 83% more expensive than a B789. (This is per this thread: viewtopic.php?t=1355819).

For a 7-hour flight LON-NYC, translated into USD based on current prices (https://www.iata.org/publications/econo ... index.aspx), this means $10,320 more for the 77W and $25,150 more for the 747 compared to the 789.
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:09 am

VS11 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
VS11 wrote:

Higher jet fuel gives advantage to airlines flying newer and more fuel efficient planes. BA flies a lot of older generation B747 and B777 over the Atlantic. So not sure how higher jet fuel helps your cause - compared to the competition, Norwegian's cost will be lower.....


An airline like BA can raise prices to cover a
rise in fuel. An “airline” like Norwegian that relies on cheap tickets to get passenger numbers won’t be able to pass on cost increases. Gas prices have killed many carriers over the years. Norwegian May be a future victim.


You really need to check your reasoning. Norwegian can raise prices and still be lower than BA. B77W is 34% more expensive to operate than a B789 and B747 is 83% more expensive than a B789. (This is per this thread: viewtopic.php?t=1355819).

For a 7-hour flight LON-NYC, translated into USD based on current prices (https://www.iata.org/publications/econo ... index.aspx), this means $10,320 more for the 77W and $25,150 more for the 747 compared to the 789.


But at the same time, BA's 77W has 38% more seats then 789 and 744 has 30-60% more seats then 789, ignoring the fact that both have more seats in F & J then 789, which generally generate higher yield and revenue. The room for Norwegian to raise prices is not as big as BA.
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:18 am

You're all missing the point here.

This isn't about Norwegian vs. British Airways.

This is about Norwegian doing what it is doing and continues to do, and hasn't vanished from the skies.

Norwegian is no longer in the "oh, aren't they cute" category.
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:21 am

parapente wrote:
Tesla is very good at selling cars at a loss.Norwegian is also very good at selling airline tickets at a loss.The same fate will befall both of them.
Making money is the tricky bit!


And this is what ultimately matters. Norwegian isn't good at making money. This will soon catch up to them no matter how "good" their service is.
 
ramzi
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:30 am

To be fair, BA's NYC traffic includes a lot of connecting passengers, so it is not totally insane to compare them to all of DY as BA is (albeit in a different manner) collecting passengers from several European cities. In reality, however, DY is making money off of only DY flights to New York. BA, on the other hand, factually makes money off of New York flights flown by BA, AA, and AY, nevermind EI, IB, and LEVEL. Additionally, they are making money on the intra-European flights bringing passengers to LHR/LGW/LCY to then fly to NYC. Furthermore, BA's aircraft have much more premium seats than Norwegian, meaning on average they probably make at least double per passenger than DY do, probably more. Finally, if any other single city is added to this calculation, BA will outdo DY.

So yes, DY has been able to challenge BA in an unprecedented way, and it is impressive if it sustains, but they are a long, long way from from taking BA's crown.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:34 am

The Reuters article is slick marketing copy.... probably written by DY's marketing dept (or outside agency). Truthful and misleading and the same time, like most litigators' briefs when both D and P share fault.
 
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:08 am

tphuang wrote:
one airline cares about making money and the other one cares about market share. You can always find people willing to cross the atlantic ocean at basement fares.


By that metric, why don’t airlines only offer full fare tickets? This is patently false. You are conflating passengers taking the fare the airline offers with the airline business model. BA is focused on high value customers. Norwegian is going after the back of the bus. Still important to BA. So important that they are making changes to their service offerings.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:08 am

neomax wrote:
but the future belongs to DY.

Uh, let's see DY/DU/DI actually survive a market downturn, before we start making proclamations like that.

THAT would be far more shocking than them surpassing a larger airline in basic capacity.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
pa747sp
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:18 am

The comparison is problematic, but not necessarily invalid.

It's true that BA only flies LON - NYC. However, a lot of those flights will be made up of connecting traffic, so they are effectively flying from multiple EU (and non-EU ) countries to NYC. The comparison is how much transatlantic traffic is being carried. In this case, it appears DY is carrying more.
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Themotionman
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:07 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
After Brexit the role of the UK and BA will further diminish:
- UK politics and politicians preoccupied with a theme that really fiesnt best fruit
Xetbm cv


There was a whole new department for Exiting The European Union - You don't see Matt Hancock and Chris Grayling being involved with the negotiations. There is plenty going on outside of Brexit within government if you look beyond the front pages of the papers.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:07 am

neomax wrote:
It's a testament to how far BA has fallen. Even if BA still makes more money, there was a time not that long ago where the thought of somebody outdoing BA at their own game, NYC to LON was ridiculous because it was BA and they were the kings.


Except they're not. They are, in fact, comparing apples to oranges... DY fly from a multitude of airports, BA only from London.
 
duboka
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Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:17 am

I didn't know, that DY was that big in NY. How many flights do they have per day?
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:11 am

FWIW, I don't wish any harm to Norwegian. I'm actually rather annoyed that they are in the position they are in since DY is my favorite short haul airline in Europe. I'm not all that bothered with BA either. The people that complain about being upsold things like seat selection in Club are not BA's target market. IIRC, a single Club World return should get you basic status which gets you free selection within a week of departure and two should be at Silver which is free selection all the time. The process means more seats are open to their status customers who often book at higher fares close to departure. It's a perfectly valid business decision.

I'm mostly annoyed with Reuters for basically running with a puff piece that has no real substance behind it without so much as bothering to call the other side to see what they have to say about it (you know...journalism)
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3253
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 12:37 am

Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:10 pm

mcdu wrote:
planesarecool wrote:
The anti-Norwegian rhetoric on this forum is both hilarious and embarrassing. The fact that people are so offended by the company is laughable.


I only hope jet fuel continues to rise. That will hopefully end the Norwegian experiment more quickly.


I hope you lose your job, can't pay your mortgage and lose your house too.

Pathetic thing to say.
 
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SANFan
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Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:22 pm

JBLUA320 wrote:
So many of you are completely missing the point.

The point was that, excluding Air Canada, British Airways was the largest foreign carrier in terms of passengers flown to/from the New York City area. As of July, Norwegian bumped British Airways out of that spot. The metric is PASSENGERS FLOWN - not routes. This isn't a reflection of BA losing significant share on LON-NYC, it's that BA is no longer carrying the most passengers in/out of NYC. That's it!

Exactly! I was going to post the very same thing and am glad I slogged thru this whole thread to finally see yours!

The article is a simple comparison of which carrier carried the most pax in and out of the NYC area. And Norwegian carried the most for the time period cited.. Period.

bb
 
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AirlineCritic
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Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:40 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
DY fly from a multitude of airports, BA only from London.


As a frequent customer of BA flights to North America, I can guarantee you that the BA planes are collecting people from all over Europe, and funneling them to their 747s that fly to JFK and other places.

Norwegian's statistic is just that, a statistics, and like with all others, they've chosen the one that puts them in good light. I wouldn't give it too much notice.

But at the same time, it is not necessarily wrong either. But it certainly is wrong to claim that BA only flies people from London to NYC, they do it for all of Europe. And make a lot of money from that service.
 
Planeflyer
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:49 am

Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:46 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
mcdu wrote:
planesarecool wrote:
The anti-Norwegian rhetoric on this forum is both hilarious and embarrassing. The fact that people are so offended by the company is laughable.

Not sure offended is a proper term. (...) I only hope jet fuel continues to rise. That will hopefully end the Norwegian experiment more quickly.

What a sad reply. I hope jet fuel goes down again. And that Norwegian keeps flying. As an aircraft spotter I think planes are cool. ;) So I enjoy seeing British Airways and Norwegian, hopefully for a long time.



Fully agree, the vitriol of some posters against Norwegian Is amazing.

What have they done?

Lowered fares which has enabled more people to fly and many to visit places that would have been out if their reach. Isn’t this one of the core benefits of aviation?

And yes at the same time provided more point to point options!

And for those that prefer legacies and all they provide they’re still there.

Norwegian has only provided more options and their passenger growth says they have largely delivered. Sure they might not last but breaking into established markets is not cheap nor for the front of heart.
 
incitatus
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: British Airways loses New York crown to low cost rival Norwegian

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:10 pm

I realize the Port Authority reports them together, but isn't Norwegian service to the New York area actually made by two different carriers - DY and D8?
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal

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