User avatar
LoganTheBogan
Topic Author
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:49 am

Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:26 pm

When Qatar ordered the five additional A350-1000s, we all assumed they were just standard -1000s but FlightGlobal is reporting them to be increased MTOW, Long Range models.
Ring a bell? Qatar was talking about these during FIA2018. Perhaps things are developing, although nothing official from Airbus yet.

Al Baker says the A350-1000 "becomes a very potent aeroplane when that [new weight] happens".

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ge-452407/
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12409
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:04 pm

Hope the carpet is up to standard. :roll:

That said, one to watch will be CX... this is similar to what they said they wanted, in order to make HKG-MIA economically feasible.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2531
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:43 am

Hey guys,
Looks like Qantas' "Project Sunrise" might benefit other airlines as well ... Am I right that Airbus fast-forwarded these developments of the -1000 in response to the QF competition?
I can also see AirNZ being highly interested in this as a 777-300ER replacement and supplement for a -900ULR/-900 order to replace 777-200ERs and open up nonstop New York flights.
Cheers,
Bunumuring
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
sibibom
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:21 am

Does Qatar really need longer range A350-1000 with B777-8X coming in a few years?

I can see the Auckland/LAX and South America routes needing them, but why 2 different types to do a similar job?
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 3831
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:21 am

sibibom wrote:
Does Qatar really need longer range A350-1000 with B777-8X coming in a few years?

I can see the Auckland/LAX and South America routes needing them, but why 2 different types to do a similar job?

Maybe there's an intention to convert their -8xs to -9xs?
First to fly the 787-9
 
WIederling
Posts: 8746
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:00 pm

sibibom wrote:
Does Qatar really need longer range A350-1000 with B777-8X coming in a few years?

I can see the Auckland/LAX and South America routes needing them, but why 2 different types to do a similar job?


ONE type :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
RandWkop
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 10:56 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:02 pm

zkojq wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Does Qatar really need longer range A350-1000 with B777-8X coming in a few years?

I can see the Auckland/LAX and South America routes needing them, but why 2 different types to do a similar job?

Maybe there's an intention to convert their -8xs to -9xs?


Will they need any 777X if the A350-1000 and -900 can already do the job for them?
How much extra passengers and cargo can the -9X carry?
 
raylee67
Posts: 687
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:11 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Hope the carpet is up to standard. :roll:

That said, one to watch will be CX... this is similar to what they said they wanted, in order to make HKG-MIA economically feasible.


Can't they do that with -900ULR? They do not have that on order but that should be a convenient addition if they want.

The -1000 may be a bit too large for MIA. They started IAD with the -1000 and it seems that the premium cabin was not selling well. MIA would probably be less of a premium destination than IAD.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 351 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
Kikko19
Posts: 525
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:40 pm

raylee67 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Hope the carpet is up to standard. :roll:

That said, one to watch will be CX... this is similar to what they said they wanted, in order to make HKG-MIA economically feasible.


Can't they do that with -900ULR? They do not have that on order but that should be a convenient addition if they want.

The -1000 may be a bit too large for MIA. They started IAD with the -1000 and it seems that the premium cabin was not selling well. MIA would probably be less of a premium d estination than IAD.

What is too large? 30?50? Seats more per flight? I understand that traffic could grow eventually.
 
mig17
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:34 am

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:59 pm

RandWkop wrote:
zkojq wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Does Qatar really need longer range A350-1000 with B777-8X coming in a few years?

I can see the Auckland/LAX and South America routes needing them, but why 2 different types to do a similar job?

Maybe there's an intention to convert their -8xs to -9xs?


Will they need any 777X if the A350-1000 and -900 can already do the job for them?
How much extra passengers and cargo can the -9X carry?

Don't think so. They have 141 widebodies on order while around 150 widebodies on active duty, some of them (787, A350 & some 77W) brand new. The 60 77X seems odd even if the intend is to grow fast.
With the blockade and Etihad suffering, Qatar airways may not want to take all on order and considering the "not so firm" status of the 77X I would not be supprise to see some cancellations and some conversions to 787-9 and 10.
727 AT, 737 UX/SK/TO/SS, 747 UT/AF/SQ/BA/SS, 767 UA, 777 AF, A300 IW/TG, A310 EK, A318/19/20/21 AF/U2/VY, A332/3 EK/QR/TX, A343 AF, A388 AF, E145/170/190 A5/WF, Q400 WF, ATR 72 A5/TX, CRJ100/700/1000 A5, C-150/172, PC-6.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 17929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:53 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Hope the carpet is up to standard. :roll:

That said, one to watch will be CX... this is similar to what they said they wanted, in order to make HKG-MIA economically feasible.

Obviously QR is hedging carpet quality. :duck:

I'm more impressed when profitable airlines order a type. Yes, QR did well with them embargo, but without it they needed periodic investment...

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12409
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:29 pm

raylee67 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
That said, one to watch will be CX... this is similar to what they said they wanted, in order to make HKG-MIA economically feasible.

Can't they do that with -900ULR?

With anything remotely resembling a load mix that could give MIA a snowball's chance of being profitable?
....probably not, or else they'd be looking at that aircraft, and not asking for one that hasn't yet been built or even decided upon.

Remember, an A359ULR can't do anything a high-MTOW A359standard couldn't, without taking a significant payload hit in exchange for fuel tankage. That won't be the case (at least to the same extent) for what's being floated around as the potential capabilities for an A35K-ULR
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
WIederling
Posts: 8746
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:58 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Remember, an A359ULR can't do anything a high-MTOW A359standard couldn't, without taking a significant payload hit in exchange for fuel tankage.


That is a misrepresentation.

correct would be:
"today's high-MTOW A359 ( 12t more than the
type was originally offered with ) can _now_ do anything the ULR can do."

( limited by 135somethingkl fuel versus 165kl fuel on the ULR. )
compare to enhanced MTOW A333 that got the center tank enabled.

those 12t should expand the full payload range by ~~two hours.
(MZFW hasn't grown that much.
Murphy is an optimist
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2531
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:39 am

Hey guys,
Just a thought....
Qatar has a big interest in AIr Italy ... Perhaps some of these planes are headed there eventually? I know that the stated plan if for 787s to supplement the MAXs, but maybe by the time the 777Xs and A350-1000ULRs come online and QR has accepted enough to initiate service, some could be sent to Italy to start larger capacity, longer range flights?
Or alternatively, perhaps At least five of the 'conditionally ordered' 777-8s could be converted into a launch order for the 777-8F which is widely expected to follow in the medium future?!?!
Cheers,
Bunumuring
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1668
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:01 am

RandWkop wrote:
zkojq wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Does Qatar really need longer range A350-1000 with B777-8X coming in a few years?

I can see the Auckland/LAX and South America routes needing them, but why 2 different types to do a similar job?

Maybe there's an intention to convert their -8xs to -9xs?


Will they need any 777X if the A350-1000 and -900 can already do the job for them?
How much extra passengers and cargo can the -9X carry?

It's difficult to say right now as the 777X hasn't flown yet, and the A35K with higher MTOW isn't defined yet. Perhaps the 777-8 could carry a bit more payload, we'll have wait and see.
The 777X on order are to replace QR's current 77L/77W fleet, and were ordered quite some time after QR ordered their A350s (including earlier conversions to A350-1000), so yes I expect QR does need the 777X. QR's A35K has 327 seats and the 77W with Qsuites 360 seats, a 10% difference. The 777-9 would seat 4-6 Q-suites or 18-20 Y seats extra. Enough difference to warrant an additional aircraft type, IMO.

Despite my personal feeling about Qatar, one has to conclude they are doing well, at least a lot better than EY. Despite the blockade. I expect them to continue growing.

mig17 wrote:
They have 141 widebodies on order while around 150 widebodies on active duty, some of them (787, A350 & some 77W) brand new. The 60 77X seems odd even if the intend is to grow fast.
With the blockade and Etihad suffering, Qatar airways may not want to take all on order and considering the "not so firm" status of the 77X I would not be supprise to see some cancellations and some conversions to 787-9 and 10.


QR is not EY. And with EY suffering, this would only be an opportunity for QR, not a threat. As said, the 777X will replace the current 777 fleet, and over a 10 year period. The 787-9 will replace the 788s, which will go to Air Italy eventually. AAB has said QR is not interested in the 787-10, although of course his nickname U-turn Al is for a reason ;)
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1668
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:13 am

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
Just a thought....
Qatar has a big interest in AIr Italy ... Perhaps some of these planes are headed there eventually? I know that the stated plan if for 787s to supplement the MAXs, but maybe by the time the 777Xs and A350-1000ULRs come online and QR has accepted enough to initiate service, some could be sent to Italy to start larger capacity, longer range flights?
Or alternatively, perhaps At least five of the 'conditionally ordered' 777-8s could be converted into a launch order for the 777-8F which is widely expected to follow in the medium future?!?!
Cheers,
Bunumuring

Very interesting thoughts. If Air Italy is a success, we may indeed see them taking 787-9s directly instead of QR's 788s - of course unless QR absolutely needs those for themselves.
Alternatively, I can see QR shifting some 77W to Air Italy. Don't think QR would let A350s or 777-9s go to Air Italy.
Will be very interested to see when Boeing will launch the 777X-F. I guess when they are sure it's not viable to keep the 'old' 777 production open for just a handful of 77F. QR surely would be interested in the 777X-F, perhaps as a conversion from their 777-8s.
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
sibibom
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:26 am

frigatebird wrote:
RandWkop wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Maybe there's an intention to convert their -8xs to -9xs?


Will they need any 777X if the A350-1000 and -900 can already do the job for them?
How much extra passengers and cargo can the -9X carry?

It's difficult to say right now as the 777X hasn't flown yet, and the A35K with higher MTOW isn't defined yet. Perhaps the 777-8 could carry a bit more payload, we'll have wait and see.
The 777X on order are to replace QR's current 77L/77W fleet, and were ordered quite some time after QR ordered their A350s (including earlier conversions to A350-1000), so yes I expect QR does need the 777X. QR's A35K has 327 seats and the 77W with Qsuites 360 seats, a 10% difference. The 777-9 would seat 4-6 Q-suites or 18-20 Y seats extra. Enough difference to warrant an additional aircraft type, IMO.


I don't doubt -9x's need cos it will fit right in, -8x is the concern, if -1000ULH does the job cheaply, why order -8x? They honestly don't have very challenging routes unless they want to start MEX.
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1668
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:40 am

sibibom wrote:
I don't doubt -9x's need cos it will fit right in, -8x is the concern, if -1000ULH does the job cheaply, why order -8x? They honestly don't have very challenging routes unless they want to start MEX.

I agree, that's why I find Bunumuring's suggestion of a possible conversion to the future 777X-F very interesting.
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
User avatar
Faro
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:08 am

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:01 pm

lightsaber wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Hope the carpet is up to standard. :roll:

That said, one to watch will be CX... this is similar to what they said they wanted, in order to make HKG-MIA economically feasible.

Obviously QR is hedging carpet quality. :duck:

I'm more impressed when profitable airlines order a type. Yes, QR did well with them embargo, but without it they needed periodic investment...

Lightsaber



Absolutely...profitable airlines without very deep-pocketed shareholders...this is like a millionaire who decides he must have one of each, a Ferrari and a Lamborghini too...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
sabby
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:29 pm

frigatebird wrote:
QR's A35K has 327 seats and the 77W with Qsuites 360 seats, a 10% difference. The 777-9 would seat 4-6 Q-suites or 18-20 Y seats extra. Enough difference to warrant an additional aircraft type, IMO....
.... The 787-9 will replace the 788s, which will go to Air Italy eventually. AAB has said QR is not interested in the 787-10, although of course his nickname U-turn Al is for a reason ;)


Their A35K have 4 extra J seats than in 77W, so the seat difference is really 20Y, almost negligible for a ~350 seater plane. However, I do think they'd take the 777-9 aircrafts as some of their bilateral ASAs are restricted to number of flights per week and they could really use the extra seats, especially on low yield routes with few dozens more Y seats.

As for 788 vs 789, I think Qatar may retain some of the 788 for their unique network planning. Just last week I took the OSL-DOH flight which is flown by 788 twice daily. I took the afternoon flight and the LF was barely 60% although this is off season. To maintain their multiple frequencies and keep full flat J seats, they'd need 788 for those 6-8 hr flights like OSL / ARN / PRG / MAD / DPS etc. QR rotate their A359s on short-mid haul flights to the south Asia destinations as well as shorter EU cities which require higher seats than 788 but not as much as 77W so they wouldn't need the 787-10. They use their A359s efficiently that eliminates the use of 789 as well as 78J. EK is a different case as they have only 2 types of very large planes.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12409
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:28 am

WIederling wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Remember, an A359ULR can't do anything a high-MTOW A359standard couldn't, without taking a significant payload hit in exchange for fuel tankage.


That is a misrepresentation.

There's no "misrepresentation"... the statement is accurate as presented.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
WIederling
Posts: 8746
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:46 am

LAX772LR wrote:
WIederling wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Remember, an A359ULR can't do anything a high-MTOW A359standard couldn't, without taking a significant payload hit in exchange for fuel tankage.


That is a misrepresentation.

There's no "misrepresentation"... the statement is accurate as presented.


OK, alternative facts then.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12409
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Qatar's A350-1000 top-up order reportedly the long range model

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:51 am

WIederling wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
WIederling wrote:
That is a misrepresentation.

There's no "misrepresentation"... the statement is accurate as presented.

OK, alternative facts then.

Repeating it isn't going to make it any less nonsensical than the first time you said it.

Not sure what your purpose in babbling about A333s and first-iteration low-MTOW A350s actually was, since the statement directly pointed out that only a high MTOW A359standard was being compared; but again, there's essentially nil an A359ULR can do that it couldn't, without swapping payload for fuel in order to do so.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos