A3801000
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Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:06 pm

Yes, again, and this time it is ...... a emotional support squirrel'

Frontier doesn't allow rodents, flight was delayed by 2 hours.

Source: https://www.businessinsider.de/ap-fligh ... ?r=UK&IR=T
 
Bricktop
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:11 pm

The whole emotional support animals concept is a punchline now. What was once a helpful process has morphed into a joke.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:13 pm

Was it carried in a cage?
 
Runway28L
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:14 pm

You beat me to posting this thread. Oh how the irony would’ve played out if the flight was operated by N232FR “Sammy the Squirrel”. :lol:



Seriously though, what an absolute degenerate. Not only needing “emotional support” from a pet squirrel(?), but having the audacity to refuse deboarding and delaying the flight for those poor passengers. I bet the police had fun dealing with this incident as well.
 
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PITingres
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:29 pm

The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
Flighty
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:31 pm

I 100% blame the airline. It is your choice to be involved in this idiotic situation to make a few bucks. What about the emotions of everybody else?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:38 pm

PITingres wrote:
The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.


Very true. We can't let these people limit the needs of people who really need them! Properly trained professional support animals would not delay a flight. True support animals are federally protected and we must accommodate them.
 
B757Forever
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:49 pm

Flighty wrote:
I 100% blame the airline. It is your choice to be involved in this idiotic situation to make a few bucks. What about the emotions of everybody else?


I was under the impression that emotional support animals flew without charge. That is why so many people all of the sudden need "emotional support".
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
crownvic
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:54 pm

I had a passenger on a Frontier LAS-MCO flight sit next to me carrying a 50-60 pd dog with no service ID of any kind . The dog sat on his lap facing me the whole flight as I was in the window seat and he had the middle seat. For the entire flight I endured drooling, dog breath and gas for 4.5 hrs and all he did was pet him and say what a good boy. When I notified Frontier of my displeasure they said there was nothing they could do. Since then, I have had at least 12 flights in Frontiers market, their fares were cheaper and I chose not to use them...I will never fly Frontier again.....
 
pjc747
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:05 pm

PITingres wrote:
The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.


No, that is b.s. Animals are unsanitary, can cause or carry allergens, and normal people shouldn't have to put up with somebody's pet on the plane while the normal person would have to check them in a carrier in baggage like a civilized person. Unless you need a professionally trained animal because you are blind, deaf, or suffer from a severe disability: paralysis, parkinson's, epilepsy, etc. And because there are so few of these, and their utility is obvious, everyone is perfectly happy to allow them to do their job wherever they may go. But just because you are unhappy does not mean you are entitled to subject everyone to your animal.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:09 pm

Emotional support animals do need to be trained and certified. They should also meet certain size requirements, and they should carry liability insurance. A small well trained/chosen dog or cat can be almost invisible to other passengers.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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spinotter
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:12 pm

PITingres wrote:
The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.


IMHO, the concept of emotional support animals is a complete aberration and should not be supported by any laws whatsoever.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:20 pm

Maybe Frontier and other LCC's should charge a fee for 'emotional support animals. :hissyfit: That would discourage them from their airline or another profit making cash in.
Maybe the US Congress could pass a law or Supreme Court make a decision to narrow the Americans with Disabilities Act as to ban 'emotional support animals' on planes, public transit, offices, ect.
 
Eurohub
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:31 pm

If you're unable to fly without taking comfort from your emotional support squirrel/peacock/pig/cat/dog etc. then you probably ought not be flying in the first place. It's about time the airlines stood firm on this and said no to emotional support animals.
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
 
Denver772
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:36 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Emotional support animals do need to be trained and certified. They should also meet certain size requirements, and they should carry liability insurance. A small well trained/chosen dog or cat can be almost invisible to other passengers.


In a perfect world, yes, they would need to be trained and certified to be allowed on the aircraft. Now days, they don't need anything with the exception of certain airlines asking for a certificate. This certificate can be easily obtained online, by answering a few multiple choice questions on a random website, with no doctor's input, then.. 15 minutes later your 50 pound dog is now an emotional support animal, can legally travel in the cabin of an aircraft and no fee is required to travel with them.

Respectable people, who are doing things by the rules, have to pay the airline quite a bit of extra money and their pet will be stored in the cargo hold. This is a small price to pay for people who suffer from panic attacks, PTSD or a variety of other ailments to be allowed, without harassment, to bring their emotional support animals onto the plane.

I hate to see this proliferation of bogus emotional support animal cases in the news, but I also hate how I see it in my daily life with other millennials (of which I am one) and their "I can do anything I want" attitude. Recent example, a friend of mine's girlfriend chose to go to Phoenix for dental school, but her boyfriend still lives in Denver, so she flies PHX-DEN-PHX 2x monthly, and he flies DEN-PHX-DEN 2x monthly. Well, she didn't want to come visit him in DEN without bringing her 50 pound dog because she didn't want to leave the dog behind. (Even though she has 2 roommates offer to watch the dog while she is gone for the weekend) So now 4x monthly this girl is bringing her rather large dog on WN planes to/from DEN just because 1) she could never imagine leaving her dog behind for a weekend, 2) "there's no way her dog would ever survive a trip in the cargo hold" -her words, not mine, and 3) it would be too expensive to bring her dog with her on 4 flights/month if she had to pay. These 3 reasons are why she went to a website, filled out a 15 min "survey" if you will, and then was issued an emotional support certificate, of which she has never had to show WN when booking/boarding. What a world we live in...
 
jumpjets
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:50 pm

A question if I may.

Passenger A has a bad animal fur allergy - travelling in close proximity in a confined space to say a cat would cause a bad reaction.

Passenger B needs an emotional support cat and can't travel without.

They both book seats on the same flight in the same class of travel. The allergy sufferer can't fly if the cat is on board and the emotional needs passenger can't if it isn't. How does the airline decide which passenger would have to be bumped from the flight?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:54 pm

jumpjets wrote:
A question if I may.

Passenger A has a bad animal fur allergy - travelling in close proximity in a confined space to say a cat would cause a bad reaction.

Passenger B needs an emotional support cat and can't travel without.

They both book seats on the same flight in the same class of travel. The allergy sufferer can't fly if the cat is on board and the emotional needs passenger can't if it isn't. How does the airline decide which passenger would have to be bumped from the flight?


allergies are not protected by federal law, so the allergy sufferer if it came down to it. I doubt that happens often you put one in the back and one in the front of the plane.
 
Bradin
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:54 pm

Emotional support squirrel? This is absolutely nuts... :duck:
 
Denver772
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:01 pm

jumpjets wrote:
A question if I may.

Passenger A has a bad animal fur allergy - travelling in close proximity in a confined space to say a cat would cause a bad reaction.

Passenger B needs an emotional support cat and can't travel without.

They both book seats on the same flight in the same class of travel. The allergy sufferer can't fly if the cat is on board and the emotional needs passenger can't if it isn't. How does the airline decide which passenger would have to be bumped from the flight?


Passenger A gets bumped. Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/27/trav ... -know.html

I've seen this in numerous other news stories as well, I am searching for them now.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:03 pm

Bradin wrote:
Emotional support squirrel? This is absolutely nuts... :duck:


Probably forced to deplane because the passenger behind them had a nut allergy.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:05 pm

No, that is b.s. Animals are unsanitary, can cause or carry allergens, and normal people shouldn't have to put up with somebody's pet on the plane while the normal person would have to check them in a carrier in baggage like a civilized person.


I can guarantee you that my cats are cleaner and more hygienic than the average slob flying basic economy. They're also far better behaved. :D
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:05 pm

Can I claim my husband as an "emotional support animal"? Then he can fly for free. :lol:
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:08 pm

Which one was the squirrel?
 
skystar767
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:11 pm

Am sorry but if your need an emotional support animal you need to get some mental help. Give me a brake with this nonsense. The only person that should have a support animal is a blind person.
 
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PITingres
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:19 pm

spinotter wrote:
PITingres wrote:
The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.


IMHO, the concept of emotional support animals is a complete aberration and should not be supported by any laws whatsoever.


I suggest you better educate yourself. I happen to occasionally work with a gentleman (who is, by the way, one of the most intelligent people I've met, and I work in a field full of smart people) who has intermittent emotional issues. His (properly trained!) support dog can detect a panic attack coming on and alert him to take the appropriate meds, which take time to work, or otherwise deflect the problem. Did I mention that he is a multi-million-mile flyer?

Given a choice between working with someone like this guy even with his issues, which he treats appropriately with the help of an ESA, or working with someone who makes sweeping dismissive generalizations from a lack of knowledge, I know who I'd pick. :-(
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
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GCT64
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:20 pm

Thankfully this nonsense hasn't percolated into the rest of the world. BA, for example, are pretty clear where emotional support animals belong:

"Other pets and emotional support animals
All other pets, including emotional support animals, will need to travel in the hold as cargo but don’t worry, your furry friends will be just as comfortable in the carefully controlled environment. All our cargo is handled by our sister company, IAG World Cargo. They have decades of experience transporting animals and will look after your pet as if it were their own."
Flown in: A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..55 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:24 pm

PITingres wrote:
spinotter wrote:
PITingres wrote:
The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.


IMHO, the concept of emotional support animals is a complete aberration and should not be supported by any laws whatsoever.


I suggest you better educate yourself. I happen to occasionally work with a gentleman (who is, by the way, one of the most intelligent people I've met, and I work in a field full of smart people) who has intermittent emotional issues. His (properly trained!) support dog can detect a panic attack coming on and alert him to take the appropriate meds, which take time to work, or otherwise deflect the problem. Did I mention that he is a multi-million-mile flyer?

Given a choice between working with someone like this guy even with his issues, which he treats appropriately with the help of an ESA, or working with someone who makes sweeping dismissive generalizations from a lack of knowledge, I know who I'd pick. :-(

His dog sounds more like a Medical Support Animal (medically trained to detect upcoming attacks).
An ESA is not that; it's a
An emotional support animal is an animal that provides comfort just by being with a person. Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

Source: https://usserviceanimals.org/support/faq
 
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fraspotter
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:39 pm

Nowadays for a lot of people with ESAs they just like to use the blanket term of having "anxiety" (whatever the hell that means) as the reason they can't separate from Fluffy for a few hours (when in reality they don't want to pay a kennel nor do they want to pay the fees associated with checking their pet in the hold). "Anxiety" has become the new "ADD" in that it's not even diagnosed half the time and people just claim they have it because they think they do. Blame therapists, blame social media, blame whoever but it's a problem that isn't going to go away over night.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

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ozark1
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:42 pm

PITingres wrote:
The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.

I completely agree with you, but unfortunately it has become so out of hand that they may indeed end up being victims of the ones who obtain a false document for money, on line, that indicates their pig, emu, walrus, mole, iguana...is needed for them to not have some kind of emotional breakdown. How about the emotions of the other passengers who, upon seeing a squirrel, probably put away their mixed nuts as quickly as possible. One problem is the carriers these creatures can be put in allows them to pass the agent undetected, since they look very much like a normal carry on with mesh sides. But potty trained dogs or cats. That's it. Enough of this. They need to see a doctor for anxiety medication or else find some other form of transportation.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:44 pm

I hope the passengers on that flight file a class action lawsuit against Frontier for that ridiculous delay.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
Redwood839
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:11 pm

crownvic wrote:
I had a passenger on a Frontier LAS-MCO flight sit next to me carrying a 50-60 pd dog with no service ID of any kind . The dog sat on his lap facing me the whole flight as I was in the window seat and he had the middle seat. For the entire flight I endured drooling, dog breath and gas for 4.5 hrs and all he did was pet him and say what a good boy. When I notified Frontier of my displeasure they said there was nothing they could do. Since then, I have had at least 12 flights in Frontiers market, their fares were cheaper and I chose not to use them...I will never fly Frontier again.....


Frontier had nothing to do with this. The law allows dogs to be carried like that. If it was a 50-60 lbs dog then it would've been a service animal. No airline would allow such a large animal in the cabin without being a service animal.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:16 pm

Emotional Support Animals: what started out as therapy animals for veterans and others with PTSD from traumatic events has morphed into a three-ring circus because some entitled jerk found a way to game the system and bring any kind of animal, big or small, onto an airplane for free.

But the most ridiculous part of this - and there are a LOT of ridiculous things about "emotional support animals" (versus licensed and trained service animals) - is that the problem could be fixed in literally three minutes by the U.S. congress by saying that Emotional Support Animals can only be dogs or cats (I'll leave the details to others), must be licensed and trained, and must fit within a certain amount of space. Federal regulation, signed into law, no exceptions. No more squirrels, no more peacocks, and no elephants. If it doesn't fit, you and it don't fly, period, end of discussion.

In this era of utterly dysfunctional politics, it is going to take a major incident to change this system. Until that happens, I guess we should all prepare for the next bubonic plague started by fleas from your seatmates emotional support squirrel.
 
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747d10
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:23 pm

If Frontier does not allow rodents, why did they board her in the first place?
I smell a rat. :duck:
flown: E145/190;F100;L10/15;DC8;D8S;D10;M11;D91/S/5;M80;M90;717;727;72S;732/3/4/5/G/8/9;
741/2/3/4;752;762/3/4;77E/L;A300;310;319;320;321;330;Concorde
 
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Slug71
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:24 pm

Policy needs to be changed to SERVICE animals only.
No more ESAs. This is getting ridiculous now.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:24 pm

pjc747 wrote:
PITingres wrote:
The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.


No, that is b.s. Animals are unsanitary, can cause or carry allergens, and normal people shouldn't have to put up with somebody's pet on the plane while the normal person would have to check them in a carrier in baggage like a civilized person. Unless you need a professionally trained animal because you are blind, deaf, or suffer from a severe disability: paralysis, parkinson's, epilepsy, etc. And because there are so few of these, and their utility is obvious, everyone is perfectly happy to allow them to do their job wherever they may go. But just because you are unhappy does not mean you are entitled to subject everyone to your animal.

Being unhappy is completely different to being clinically depressed. Fun fact: Humans are far less sanitary than animals.
 
PI4EVER
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:26 pm

I just flew on AA last Sat with a cabin pet. A 10 pound dog. I had to show him physically to the AA agent who had to create a "pet record" at the counter. A service animal at a kiosk position beside me was on a lease, wearing a vest and again an agent verified the pet status and paperwork with the passenger. This incident is on F9 for failure to apply a pet policy or rules for acceptance of a service animal and not inspecting what the critter was.
As well, many confuse an emotional support animal with a certified trained service animal such as accompanying a blind, deaf or physically handicapped person that never leaves their side. An emotional support animal may ride in the passengers lap or in a cabin kennel.
My dog, an everyday Fido simply going home with me for a family emergency rode in a cabin kennel, under the seat in front of me. The passengers seated beside me didn't even know my carry-on backpack looking kennel contained a dog. He never made a sound, unlike several groups of unruly and screaming children with mindless parents who simply ignored them in the gate and on the plane.
watch what you want. you may get it.
 
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ER757
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:28 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Emotional Support Animals: what started out as therapy animals for veterans and others with PTSD from traumatic events has morphed into a three-ring circus because some entitled jerk found a way to game the system and bring any kind of animal, big or small, onto an airplane for free.

But the most ridiculous part of this - and there are a LOT of ridiculous things about "emotional support animals" (versus licensed and trained service animals) - is that the problem could be fixed in literally three minutes by the U.S. congress by saying that Emotional Support Animals can only be dogs or cats (I'll leave the details to others), must be licensed and trained, and must fit within a certain amount of space. Federal regulation, signed into law, no exceptions. No more squirrels, no more peacocks, and no elephants. If it doesn't fit, you and it don't fly, period, end of discussion.

In this era of utterly dysfunctional politics, it is going to take a major incident to change this system. Until that happens, I guess we should all prepare for the next bubonic plague started by fleas from your seatmates emotional support squirrel.

Bingo!!! You nailed it - could not agree more. You know it's gotten past the point of silliness when peacocks and squirrels are brought in. And please don't even get me started on the "service dogs" that really aren't. The real, legitimate service dogs are getting a very bad rap because of all the dirtbags passing off their run of the mill house pet as a trained professional. Makes my blood boil
 
btbx11
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:49 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Emotional support animals do need to be trained and certified. They should also meet certain size requirements, and they should carry liability insurance. A small well trained/chosen dog or cat can be almost invisible to other passengers.


Nope. So called emotional support animals require no training or certification. All the passenger needs a note from their therapist (actual or online) and their pet is good to fly on a commercial airline per the Air Carrier Access Act. Many people have also decided (wrongly) that this note gives their pet free roam of restaurants, food stores, and hospitals as well - places where pets are prohibited by law.

Service Animals as defined by the Americans with Disabilities Act however are trained to provide a specific service and are allowed anywhere their
handlers are allowed.

It's really a shame to see people with a legitimate need for a service animal taken advantage of by all these people with so called "emotional support animals".
 
ltbewr
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:50 pm

Perhaps the rule needs to be defined as what are considered 'domesticated' animals, not 'wild' animals. To me a squirrel is a wild animal, can carry rabies or other infections diseases that can be a serious hazard to others so shouldn't be allowed. A well defined 'service' animal category needs to exist to recognize legitimate health, safety and mental health needs and keep off the frivolous and potentially hazardous ones.
I would also note the serious issues of an ESA if an emergency on a plane. If a large or 'wild' animal, who knows how it will react and likely the person who has them would make sure they evacuated with them, even if caused deaths to others.
 
btbx11
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:58 pm

ER757 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Emotional Support Animals: what started out as therapy animals for veterans and others with PTSD from traumatic events has morphed into a three-ring circus because some entitled jerk found a way to game the system and bring any kind of animal, big or small, onto an airplane for free.

But the most ridiculous part of this - and there are a LOT of ridiculous things about "emotional support animals" (versus licensed and trained service animals) - is that the problem could be fixed in literally three minutes by the U.S. congress by saying that Emotional Support Animals can only be dogs or cats (I'll leave the details to others), must be licensed and trained, and must fit within a certain amount of space. Federal regulation, signed into law, no exceptions. No more squirrels, no more peacocks, and no elephants. If it doesn't fit, you and it don't fly, period, end of discussion.


Thanks, I agree 100%! Except, keep in mind that dogs trained to assist with PTSD ARE Service Animals as defined by the ADA. And actual Service Animals don't need to be licensed. They do need to be trained to perform a specific task.
 
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ER757
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Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:45 pm

btbx11 wrote:
ER757 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Emotional Support Animals: what started out as therapy animals for veterans and others with PTSD from traumatic events has morphed into a three-ring circus because some entitled jerk found a way to game the system and bring any kind of animal, big or small, onto an airplane for free.

But the most ridiculous part of this - and there are a LOT of ridiculous things about "emotional support animals" (versus licensed and trained service animals) - is that the problem could be fixed in literally three minutes by the U.S. congress by saying that Emotional Support Animals can only be dogs or cats (I'll leave the details to others), must be licensed and trained, and must fit within a certain amount of space. Federal regulation, signed into law, no exceptions. No more squirrels, no more peacocks, and no elephants. If it doesn't fit, you and it don't fly, period, end of discussion.


Thanks, I agree 100%! Except, keep in mind that dogs trained to assist with PTSD ARE Service Animals as defined by the ADA. And actual Service Animals don't need to be licensed. They do need to be trained to perform a specific task.

Yes, they definitely are service animals - ones that I include in my "legitimate, real service animals" category. I can spot a phony service animal at the airport in about two seconds flat. To anyone with a modicum of dog training experience, it's easy to separate properly trained service dogs from fakes where the owner went on line and bought a vest stating "service dog." I'll stop here before I go into rant mode......
 
pjc747
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:50 pm

Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:02 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
pjc747 wrote:
PITingres wrote:
The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.


No, that is b.s. Animals are unsanitary, can cause or carry allergens, and normal people shouldn't have to put up with somebody's pet on the plane while the normal person would have to check them in a carrier in baggage like a civilized person. Unless you need a professionally trained animal because you are blind, deaf, or suffer from a severe disability: paralysis, parkinson's, epilepsy, etc. And because there are so few of these, and their utility is obvious, everyone is perfectly happy to allow them to do their job wherever they may go. But just because you are unhappy does not mean you are entitled to subject everyone to your animal.

Being unhappy is completely different to being clinically depressed. Fun fact: Humans are far less sanitary than animals.


Classic straw man argument. To say that "humans are far less sanitary" has no basis in fact. The bacteria which live in the mouths of cats and dogs can cause serious infection, the kinds of which our own biology is not equipped to deal with like theirs are. There is simply no reason why animals, especially people's personal pets, should be introduced an accommodated in an airline cabin, unless they provide a vital and necessary service to that person, i.e. they are blind or epileptic. These animals are professionally trained from infancy to be quiet, patient, obedient, well-behaved, continent, and oblivious to stressful situations. If you really need to keep your personal pet with you at all times to not jump at the sight of your own shadow in public, that's your problem. It is the height of selfishness to subject people to your pet for your own personal problems.
 
smartplane
Posts: 1024
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:37 pm

Don't understand how the same people, who can't fly domestically in the USA without their pet or pets, are miraculously able to fly to Australia, NZ, Asia and Europe without them. What do they know about US aircraft and crew that visitors don't?
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9485
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:43 pm

pjc747 wrote:
PITingres wrote:
The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.


No, that is b.s. Animals are unsanitary, can cause or carry allergens, and normal people shouldn't have to put up with somebody's pet on the plane while the normal person would have to check them in a carrier in baggage like a civilized person. Unless you need a professionally trained animal because you are blind, deaf, or suffer from a severe disability: paralysis, parkinson's, epilepsy, etc. And because there are so few of these, and their utility is obvious, everyone is perfectly happy to allow them to do their job wherever they may go. But just because you are unhappy does not mean you are entitled to subject everyone to your animal.

How is it possible they got rid of peanuts because people have allergies, but SO MANY MORE PEOPLE are allergic to animal dander and NOBODY CARES one iota?
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:00 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
No, that is b.s. Animals are unsanitary, can cause or carry allergens, and normal people shouldn't have to put up with somebody's pet on the plane while the normal person would have to check them in a carrier in baggage like a civilized person.


I can guarantee you that my cats are cleaner and more hygienic than the average slob flying basic economy. They're also far better behaved. :D


And smarter too, probably. I have three cats and agree with you 100%. However, it would be pure emotioal torture for any cat I have met to go on a plane with me, and I can assure you that the role of my felines in their minds is definitely NOT to supply me with emotional support. I say if these people cannot fly without an emotional support animal, then they should not fly at all. Take Greyhound, but I wonder whether Greyhound even accepts them. The airlines should not. Cargo only for animals.
 
Bald1983
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:10 pm

Here is how to deal with squirrels:

The Derby itself might gallop by in a matter of minutes, but you'll need plenty of time to let this meaty stew simmer down to the proper consistency. It freezes well but also provides the perfect excuse to have a few dozen friends over to watch the race, sip mint juleps and feast on this traditional Kentucky treat. Note: Many classic recipes include squirrel, but if you don't have a reliable source, your guests will likely forgive you.



To learn more, read "Derby Dancing."


Brooklyn Burgoo


Recipe adapted from Kat Kinsman, Editor in Chief






Yield: 20 to 30 servings





Prep Time: 1 hour

Cook Time: 8 hours

Total Time: 9 hours




Ingredients

2 pounds pork ribs

2 pounds veal shank

2 pounds beef shank

2 pounds lamb shank

One 4-pound whole chicken

8 quarts cold water

2 medium russet potatoes, peeled and chopped

2 medium yellow onions, chopped

5 medium carrots, chopped

2 green peppers, chopped

3 cups chopped cabbage

2 cups whole kernel corn, fresh or canned

2 cups diced fresh or frozen okra

3 celery stalks, chopped

2 ancho chiles

1 quart tomato purée

Kosher salt, cayenne pepper and Worcestershire sauce, to taste

Tabasco sauce, for serving


Directions

1. In a large pot, combine all the meat and cover with the water. Bring to a boil, then reduce the heat to medium and simmer, skimming the scum that rises to the top, until you notice some of the bones beginning to fall off, 2 to 3 hours.

2. Remove the meat and discard the bones and chicken skin. Pick and cut the meat into bite-size pieces. Place the meat back into the stock along with the chopped vegetables, chiles and tomato purée. Simmer over medium heat until the vegetables are very tender and begin to break down, 1½ to 2 hours. As the stew begins to thicken, stir it more frequently to prevent it from sticking to the bottom. Continue to simmer until the meat becomes shredded and the stew takes on a uniform consistency, another 3 to 4 hours. Remove the ancho chiles (if they are visible), and season the stew with salt, cayenne and Worcestershire sauce.

3. Serve the burgoo with more Worcestershire sauce and Tabasco

I do not believe I would care for squirrel but it would discourage people from bringing their rodents to fly in the cabin.
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:49 pm

Denver772 wrote:
jumpjets wrote:
A question if I may.

Passenger A has a bad animal fur allergy - travelling in close proximity in a confined space to say a cat would cause a bad reaction.

Passenger B needs an emotional support cat and can't travel without.

They both book seats on the same flight in the same class of travel. The allergy sufferer can't fly if the cat is on board and the emotional needs passenger can't if it isn't. How does the airline decide which passenger would have to be bumped from the flight?


Passenger A gets bumped. Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/27/trav ... -know.html

I've seen this in numerous other news stories as well, I am searching for them now.


What if:

Passenger A is Global Services
Passenber B is on Economy Basic

Can you imagine the poor soul who has to tell the GS he has to get off the plane?
 
Armodeen
Posts: 1176
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:08 pm

This. I fully agree.the concept of someone needing nutkins the fking squirrel in order to fly is bizzare. If that’s the case then you aren’t meant to be flying, sorry.

Genuinely professionally trained animals (guide dog etc) are entirely different to a random bloody squirrel.



pjc747 wrote:
PITingres wrote:
The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.


No, that is b.s. Animals are unsanitary, can cause or carry allergens, and normal people shouldn't have to put up with somebody's pet on the plane while the normal person would have to check them in a carrier in baggage like a civilized person. Unless you need a professionally trained animal because you are blind, deaf, or suffer from a severe disability: paralysis, parkinson's, epilepsy, etc. And because there are so few of these, and their utility is obvious, everyone is perfectly happy to allow them to do their job wherever they may go. But just because you are unhappy does not mean you are entitled to subject everyone to your animal.
 
727200
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:12 pm

So Passenger A brings on their squirrel. And since the emo-squirrel will be hungry at some point, A also brings along emo-squirrel's favorite nuts. Not just any nuts, but A says specially bred nuts that can only be bought in some far away land and cost $1 Bajillion dollars.

But true to form in today's world, Passenger V, AKA 'helicopter mom," in the back of the plane traveling with her 4 kids, suddenly claims one of them is allergic to this particular type of nut. Now she refuses to deplane, wont let them close the door, and is screaming how little what's his name, is going to die because the nuts, the squirrel, and her kid are all in the same closed environment.

(A) You see where I am going with this and (B) Now who is getting off the plane?
 
CantbeGrounded
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: Emotional support animal again, woman removed, flight delayed

Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:12 pm

pjc747 wrote:
PITingres wrote:
The part that really makes me angry is that there are people with valid emotional issues who fly with properly trained support animals. This sort of nonsense makes their life that much harder, since now they are lumped in with the jerks.


No, that is b.s. Animals are unsanitary, can cause or carry allergens, and normal people shouldn't have to put up with somebody's pet on the plane while the normal person would have to check them in a carrier in baggage like a civilized person. Unless you need a professionally trained animal because you are blind, deaf, or suffer from a severe disability: paralysis, parkinson's, epilepsy, etc. And because there are so few of these, and their utility is obvious, everyone is perfectly happy to allow them to do their job wherever they may go. But just because you are unhappy does not mean you are entitled to subject everyone to your animal.


"normal" and "civilized" vs just "unhappy". Your compassion knows no bounds!

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