bob75013
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Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:53 pm

"A Chinese spy who federal officials said tried to steal trade secrets from American aviation and aerospace companies has been charged and extradited to the United States.

The extradition of Yanjun Xu, a deputy division director of the Chinese Ministry of State Security, on Tuesday was an "unprecedented" move that "exposes the Chinese government's direct oversight of economic espionage against the (U.S.),” Bill Priestap, of the FBI's Counterintelligence division, said Wednesday."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/chinese-spy- ... -officials
 
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Revelation
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:39 am

TFA says:

A U.S. Department of Justice statement said Xu, a deputy division director for the State Security Department of China’s Jiangsu province, targeted several U.S. aerospace companies, including GE Aviation, a subsidiary of General Electric Co (GE.N).

It described another unnamed firm as “one of the world’s largest aerospace firms, and a leading manufacturer of commercial jetliners and defense, space and security systems,” and a third as a leader in unmanned aerial vehicle technology.

And Jon Ostrower ( https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 4577400833 ) tweeted:

GE Aviation confirms they are “company A” in the DOJ indictment for alleged attempted Chinese IP theft.

So one company is GE and since we only have one big player left in commercial jetliners the other is Boeing, and the third is ?

NYT ( https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/10/us/p ... rrest.html ) says:

An individual identified as an unindicted co-conspirator invited the GE Aviation employee on an all-expense trip to China to meet with scientists at Nanjing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics. Once there, the employee was introduced to Mr. Xu, who continued to be in touch by email after the trip.

In January, Mr. Xu invited the employee back to China and told him that he should bring information about GE Aviation’s “system specification, design process.” Over the next two months, Mr. Xu asked the employee for more details, including what the indictment said was proprietary information about fan blade design.

Hmm, sounds just like one of the lessons I've seen in a corporate 'business conduct' training seminar.
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mham001
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:15 am

On the face of it, what law was broken? There is no mention of money in the article, just voluntary requests for information. Enticing him to Belgium for arrest is going to piss off the Chinese to no end but clever.
 
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:31 am

mham001 wrote:
On the face of it, what law was broken? There is no mention of money in the article, just voluntary requests for information.

Right, but the NYT article says there was an "all-expense trip to China" to start, and a subsequent trip as well. So, this is "trumped up" (tm) to some degree, but there was some compensation involved.

WaPo ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html ) makes it clearer that a Chinese intellegence officer posed as an academic and offered free trips to China to get technologists from three different US companies to give presentations to universities, and once the relationship was set up, began asking for proprietary information.

mham001 wrote:
Enticing him to Belgium for arrest is going to piss off the Chinese to no end but clever.

The Chinese are going to be even more pissed off at Belgium for agreeing to extradite Mr. Xu.
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EightyFour
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:26 am

I didn't expect that from the Belgians., good on them. Now I'm waiting for the Chinese embassy, or foreign ministry, to issue a statement saying how this is a gross injustice to China and a breach of Chinese sovereignty.
 
chrisp390
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:46 am

The feelings of the Chinese people have been hurt due to the extradition
 
WorldFlier
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:36 pm

mham001 wrote:
On the face of it, what law was broken? There is no mention of money in the article, just voluntary requests for information. Enticing him to Belgium for arrest is going to piss off the Chinese to no end but clever.


Retribution for Interpol arrest.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:37 pm

chrisp390 wrote:
The feelings of the Chinese people have been hurt due to the extradition


What is the current phrase about feelings that is popular in the US right now? I can't post it, so I'll use Gone With The Wind,

"Frankly, my dear...I don't give a damn"
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:33 pm

mham001 wrote:
On the face of it, what law was broken? There is no mention of money in the article, just voluntary requests for information. Enticing him to Belgium for arrest is going to piss off the Chinese to no end but clever.


The Economic Espionage Act of 1996. This was a conspiracy to obtain proprietary and trade secret information protected under federal law. It would be a crime to ask for the information and it would be a crime to disclose it even if no money exchanged hands.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
Flighty
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:56 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
mham001 wrote:
On the face of it, what law was broken? There is no mention of money in the article, just voluntary requests for information. Enticing him to Belgium for arrest is going to piss off the Chinese to no end but clever.


Retribution for Interpol arrest.


Well spotted.

The news story ISN'T that this type of espionage takes pace frequently and at large scale. The news story is that the US and Europe collaborated to actually arrest some people involved. This is a warning shot.
 
bob75013
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:41 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
mham001 wrote:
On the face of it, what law was broken? There is no mention of money in the article, just voluntary requests for information. Enticing him to Belgium for arrest is going to piss off the Chinese to no end but clever.


Retribution for Interpol arrest.


Not really. He was arrested in Belgium in April, and has been fighting extradition since then.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:51 pm

bob75013 wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
mham001 wrote:
On the face of it, what law was broken? There is no mention of money in the article, just voluntary requests for information. Enticing him to Belgium for arrest is going to piss off the Chinese to no end but clever.


Retribution for Interpol arrest.


Not really. He was arrested in Belgium in April, and has been fighting extradition since then.


Not the arrest, my friend. The fact that his extradition happened so quickly after the Interpol arrest. Extraditions of nationals from powerful countries, especially from the heart of Europe to America have lots of things going on behind the scenes.

I truly believe they're related.
 
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EightyFour
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:52 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
The feelings of the Chinese people have been hurt due to the extradition


What is the current phrase about feelings that is popular in the US right now? I can't post it, so I'll use Gone With The Wind,

"Frankly, my dear...I don't give a damn"


Oh, you should give a damn, but not perhaps for the reason you might think. In short "hurting the feelings of the Chinese people" is a go-to phrase used when anyone does anything that the PRC government doesn't approve of. https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/02/16/h ... spleasure/
 
WorldFlier
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:24 pm

EightyFour wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
The feelings of the Chinese people have been hurt due to the extradition


What is the current phrase about feelings that is popular in the US right now? I can't post it, so I'll use Gone With The Wind,

"Frankly, my dear...I don't give a damn"


Oh, you should give a damn, but not perhaps for the reason you might think. In short "hurting the feelings of the Chinese people" is a go-to phrase used when anyone does anything that the PRC government doesn't approve of. https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/02/16/h ... spleasure/


I know exactly what it means. My wife is Chinese and we get into geopolitical arguments all the time. Right now the U.S. is in open economic warfare with the China, so a little extra feather ruffling isn't very important at the moment. It will be interesting how many deferrals this will result in for Boeing, new orders for Airbus, how many ARJs will take to the sky, and if Russia can sneak in an Superjet/MC-21 sale in there...

I see you're Taiwanese, and I love that island it is one of my favorite places to visit in the world. I am sure this will also generate some extra defense deals for the U.S.
 
global2
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:33 pm

Is the West finally ready to wake up to the realities of the Chinese government's activities?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... nd=premium
 
global2
Posts: 359
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:34 pm

Is the West finally ready to wake up to the realities of the Chinese government's activities?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... nd=premium
Last edited by global2 on Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
global2
Posts: 359
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:38 pm

Is the West finally ready to wake up to the realities of the Chinese government's activities?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... nd=premium
 
neutronstar73
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:56 pm

global2 wrote:
Is the West finally ready to wake up to the realities of the Chinese government's activities?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... nd=premium


I don't know why this is such a shock. I was sounding the alarm bells (I was a young one, then, but still) when McDonnell-Douglas contracted with China to build parts of their MD-95 series aircraft there, as well as letting China assemble MD-80 series aircraft for Chinese aviation companies. I was told by many older folks "ah, don't worry about it. China is so far behind, and this is only assembly of airplanes or building parts. They'll never get close to us"

Is that right? Well, look what we have here.....China stealing tech, demanding tech transfer if you want to sell in their country, and everything else. Oh, by the way, they are using their influence and money to buy themselves influence in Africa, China, South/Central America, etc.... and they are getting very aggressive in their own neighbourhood, so much so that former adversaries (Vietnam and US) are now starting to act like allies as a bulwark against China.

But Agent Orange decided to kill TPP only because the black President signed it, which really would have hemmed China in throughout Asia, and checked their behavior. But, anything Obama did that was good, Trump will destroy just to spite Obama, even if it is detrimental to the country as a whole.
 
wingman
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:57 pm

This guy will probably turn into a useful chip to trade for the Interpol chief. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised one bit if that's why the Chinese picked up the guy in the first place, knowing their aviation pawn was about to get taken in Belgium.
 
global2
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:00 pm

Sorry Mods--did not mean to post multiple times; there was some server error. Please delete the duplicates (I've tried but it's not letting me).
 
Flighty
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Re: Chinese spy charged with trying to steal US aviation trade secrets

Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:20 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:

Retribution for Interpol arrest.


Not really. He was arrested in Belgium in April, and has been fighting extradition since then.


Not the arrest, my friend. The fact that his extradition happened so quickly after the Interpol arrest. Extraditions of nationals from powerful countries, especially from the heart of Europe to America have lots of things going on behind the scenes.

I truly believe they're related.


Of course it is related. He was a bargaining chip and he got cashed in (we'll arrest as many more as we need). At the end of the day, civilization needs to stand up now and then. Either China imprisoned a good Interpol chief, which would be an outrage, or they appointed a corrupt guy to be a big security minister and Interpol chief. Which is outrageous also. China could have at least waited until his term was complete. What message were they meaning to send by his arrest? Cessation of friendly relations with the West?

If we were on the same page / good friends that would be one thing. But having that type of relationship with Communist Party China is inconcievable.

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