In an interesting move (given the loss of a partner in CLT and the fact that AA will be launching CLT-MUC) it appears that LH will be switching CLT to the A350 from the A333 at the beginning of the LH Spring schedule on 31 March 2018. This is coincidentally the same day AA is starting CLT-MUC.

While it doesn’t necessarily compare to the A346 that used to cover the route in the summer season, this does represent a capacity increase for CLT-MUC.

Pretty cool to have a new generation aircraft coming in!

LH is also upgrading FRA-PHL to the 744 from the 333 in S19. Definitely seems like a shot at AA.

This is a tremendous response from LH. I expected them to respond in some fashion. Truly shows how committed LH is to the Charlotte area. Can’t wait to see this next gen airplane at my home airport next year.

AA has conceded JFK / MIA / ORD / PHL - Germany to LH / Star.

AA owns DFW, but LH has been in the market for over 30 years and holds its own. I think EY dropping DFW is better for LH than AA adding seasonal MUC service.

CLT will be interesting. I don’t know the market, but know the auto industry is strong.

nomorerjs wrote:

AA has conceded JFK / MIA / ORD / PHL - Germany to LH / Star.

AA owns DFW, but LH has been in the market for over 30 years and holds its own. I think EY dropping DFW is better for LH than AA adding seasonal MUC service.

CLT will be interesting. I don’t know the market, but know the auto industry is strong.

It's difficult to guess what LH is trying to do.

Naturally, the service is better on LH in both cabins, and I believe that the LH A350 YCL seat is more comfortable than the AA A330 YCL seat. However, in J, LH's seat is terrible and AA offers all-aisle access.

The German firms in the area are prodominately loyal to LH-who has most of the contracts. My guess is that LH hopes that "upgauging" the route for the season will cause both LH's CLT-MUC flight and AA's CLT-MUC flight to suffer, but LH is willing to suffer through the losses because they are the ones who hold the contracts. I'm betting that LH hopes that the AA flight won't stick around and then they will have the market to themselves once more.

LH has used the 744 at PHL in the past. IIRC it happened when US went double daily PHL-FRA even as they were alliance partners (obv they were not joint venture partners). I don’t know that there is much to fight about here.

CLT doesn’t have ALL that much that any other midsize metropolis doesn’t have. I don’t see LH succeeding directly in opposition to AA there. I think LH was lucky to take the entire PHL Germany market and AA is not being unreasonable to expect to run CLT to Germany. CLT is an incredibly focused AA hub. CLT MUC doesn’t make any more sense than MSP MUC or STL MUC, Just my view.

Every A330-300 route out of MUC will be upgauged to A359 / A346 next summer because LH will be moving all the A333s from MUC to FRA. They will be replaced by new A350s and A346s coming back from FRA.
New A350 routes from MUC in S19:
YYZ
YUL
IAD
CLT
BOM
KIX

Some routes that they prevously used the A350 on will get the A340-600 like BOS or HND.

JetBlueCLT wrote:

This is a tremendous response from LH. I expected them to respond in some fashion. Truly shows how committed LH is to the Charlotte area. Can’t wait to see this next gen airplane at my home airport next year.

Well they can’t let down that crazy lady praying whenever Lufthansa comes in

Is she still active?

B747forever wrote:

JetBlueCLT wrote:

This is a tremendous response from LH. I expected them to respond in some fashion. Truly shows how committed LH is to the Charlotte area. Can’t wait to see this next gen airplane at my home airport next year.

Well they can’t let down that crazy lady praying whenever Lufthansa comes in

Is she still active?

Sure is, saw her the other day. LH missed the high speed turn off and ended up coming almost all the way down 36C and that lady about had a heart attack she was so excited.

B747forever wrote:

JetBlueCLT wrote:

This is a tremendous response from LH. I expected them to respond in some fashion. Truly shows how committed LH is to the Charlotte area. Can’t wait to see this next gen airplane at my home airport next year.

Well they can’t let down that crazy lady praying whenever Lufthansa comes in

Is she still active?

Sure is, saw her the other day. LH missed the high speed turn off and ended up coming almost all the way down 36C and that lady about had a heart attack she was so excited.

CLTRampRat wrote:

B747forever wrote:

JetBlueCLT wrote:

This is a tremendous response from LH. I expected them to respond in some fashion. Truly shows how committed LH is to the Charlotte area. Can’t wait to see this next gen airplane at my home airport next year.

Well they can’t let down that crazy lady praying whenever Lufthansa comes in

Is she still active?

Sure is, saw her the other day. LH missed the high speed turn off and ended up coming almost all the way down 36C and that lady about had a heart attack she was so excited.

Haha, can’t believe she is still around. What is the story behind her fascination of the LH flight?

LH779 wrote:

Every A330-300 route out of MUC will be upgauged to A359 / A346 next summer because LH will be moving all the A333s from MUC to FRA. They will be replaced by new A350s and A346s coming back from FRA.
New A350 routes from MUC in S19:
YYZ
YUL
IAD
CLT
BOM
KIX

Some routes that they prevously used the A350 on will get the A340-600 like BOS or HND.

Thinking about these aircraft changes some more, they are definitely partly due to LH's fleet strategy. PHL cannot be that surprising though. AA walked away from about ~500 seats/day in the PHL-Germany market and LH added ~180 of it back with the 744.

No idea! But myself and some fellow airport buddies have speculated: She appears to be Native American, and the crane is a good luck symbol in their culture. So god forbid if AA drives LH out of CLT. On the flip side supposedly she was with someone one time and somebody asked her friend about it and they said she wasn’t even Native American. So honestly who knows.

CLTRampRat wrote:

No idea! But myself and some fellow airport buddies have speculated: She appears to be Native American, and the crane is a good luck symbol in their culture. So god forbid if AA drives LH out of CLT. On the flip side supposedly she was with someone one time and somebody asked her friend about it and they said she wasn’t even Native American. So honestly who knows.

Oh well, I just hope she likes the A350!

SAN is also seeing a partial upgauge next summer. Beginning Mar 31, LH will serve SAN 3x weekly with the A346, and the other 2 days per week with the A343.

LH started the SAN-FRA route this last March at 5x weekly using A343s. So even though they are apparently not yet ready to take the route daily, a year after the inaugural we are seeing more premium seats being offered! I'll take it!

bb

I thought LH used the A346 on the CLT-MUC route?

USAirALB wrote:

In an interesting move (given the loss of a partner in CLT and the fact that AA will be launching CLT-MUC) it appears that LH will be switching CLT to the A350 from the A333 at the beginning of the LH Spring schedule on 31 March 2018. This is coincidentally the same day AA is starting CLT-MUC.

While it doesn’t necessarily compare to the A346 that used to cover the route in the summer season, this does represent a capacity increase for CLT-MUC.

31 March 2018 already exist, you mean 31 March 2019 then?

SANMAN66 wrote:

I thought LH used the A346 on the CLT-MUC route?

They used to for a while. Recently it's been a 333 route - I don't remember if the downgauge directly correlated to US Airways getting bought by AA and subsequently pulling out of Star Alliance, but I think it might have...

I am quite sure I saw yesterday or so a posting on this thread indicating MUC-MEX was going to continue as an A346 route despite the fact that LH had already announced that MEX was getting the A359 from MUC. Maybe it got deleted? In any event, I conducted a random search for late November / early December on Google Flights, and it is showing that the aircraft is an A359. Can anyone confirm if the A359 will soon take over MUC-MEX, or if such route will stay A346 for the time being? Thanks.

B747forever wrote:

JetBlueCLT wrote:

This is a tremendous response from LH. I expected them to respond in some fashion. Truly shows how committed LH is to the Charlotte area. Can’t wait to see this next gen airplane at my home airport next year.

Well they can’t let down that crazy lady praying whenever Lufthansa comes in

Is she still active?

For those of us who don't know, could any of you give a short primer on what this is all about? Sounds like an interesting story..

Tell the crazy lady that the A346 is coming to CLT today, Dec17-Arr 16:26.

CV880 wrote:

Tell the crazy lady that the A346 is coming to CLT today, Dec17-Arr 16:26.

Why? She’s out there everyday anyways.

Boston, which had been A359 since LH debuted it, will go back to the A346 next summer. As near as I can tell, the capacity of each is nearly the same, but the A346 has four classes.

For those of us who don't know, could any of you give a short primer on what this is all about? Sounds like an interesting story..[/quote]


Well I don't know the backstory, but if you just go to Youtube and search "CLT crazy lady" she is the first hit. lol

-ATLFlyer323

SANFan wrote:

SAN is also seeing a partial upgauge next summer. Beginning Mar 31, LH will serve SAN 3x weekly with the A346, and the other 2 days per week with the A343.

LH started the SAN-FRA route this last March at 5x weekly using A343s. So even though they are apparently not yet ready to take the route daily, a year after the inaugural we are seeing more premium seats being offered! I'll take it!

bb

Hey Bob, I've heard that too, but nothing has been loaded into LH's system about that. I'm planning on flying to Germany in late September, on a Monday, but their website still says it's "only" on an A340-300.

Can you believe we're living in an era where one of San Diego's Europe flights is "only" on an A343?

Hey, LH, if you're listening: you've got two missing days - how about an A350 to MUC on those days you aren't flying to FRA?

Okay, having said that, to the topic at hand: CLT is obviously supplying LH with something profitable, as there is no connecting traffic at CLT. It's working solely off of O&D. And that's probably from the European end. Same with PHL - regardless of "hub" status, there's more demand than just one airline.

Congrats to PHL and CLT!!

German industry BMW @ GSP, Freightliner trucks in the CLT Metro & Siemens Energy...all based in MUC.

PHL must have a ton of business traffic, hence the high fares. I'm glad both PHL and CLT have other opinions and more to come hopefully

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

Okay, having said that, to the topic at hand: CLT is obviously supplying LH with something profitable, as there is no connecting traffic at CLT. It's working solely off of O&D. And that's probably from the European end. Same with PHL - regardless of "hub" status, there's more demand than just one airline.

Congrats to PHL and CLT!!

It's not all O&D. In two airports dominated by OW, LH provides an alternative connecting point (FRA & MUC) if LHR is not viable or not convenient for someone.

sturmovik wrote:

B747forever wrote:

JetBlueCLT wrote:

This is a tremendous response from LH. I expected them to respond in some fashion. Truly shows how committed LH is to the Charlotte area. Can’t wait to see this next gen airplane at my home airport next year.

Well they can’t let down that crazy lady praying whenever Lufthansa comes in

Is she still active?

For those of us who don't know, could any of you give a short primer on what this is all about? Sounds like an interesting story..

First Google hit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Charlotte/comments/28znfc/lufthansa_lady_shows_up_everday_a_lufthansa_a340/

sturmovik wrote:

B747forever wrote:

JetBlueCLT wrote:

This is a tremendous response from LH. I expected them to respond in some fashion. Truly shows how committed LH is to the Charlotte area. Can’t wait to see this next gen airplane at my home airport next year.

Well they can’t let down that crazy lady praying whenever Lufthansa comes in

Is she still active?

For those of us who don't know, could any of you give a short primer on what this is all about? Sounds like an interesting story..

First Google hit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Charlotte/comments/28znfc/lufthansa_lady_shows_up_everday_a_lufthansa_a340/

usairways85 wrote:

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

Okay, having said that, to the topic at hand: CLT is obviously supplying LH with something profitable, as there is no connecting traffic at CLT. It's working solely off of O&D. And that's probably from the European end. Same with PHL - regardless of "hub" status, there's more demand than just one airline.

Congrats to PHL and CLT!!

It's not all O&D. In two airports dominated by OW, LH provides an alternative connecting point (FRA & MUC) if LHR is not viable or not convenient for someone.

Understood, but that LH traffic is starting and ending its journey at CLT, not connecting to anything. Connections at FRA and MUC, definitely, but not at CLT.

The A350 will be a nice upgrade for CLT.

CV880 wrote:

German industry BMW @ GSP, Freightliner trucks in the CLT Metro & Siemens Energy...all based in MUC.

Correct on BMW. However, Freightliner (i.e. Daimler Trucks) is headquartered in PDX not MUC. Daimler overall is HQ'd in STR and they have a great museum if you're ever in the area.

Especially since American refuses to fly any refurbished planes into charlotte. CLT is the largest airport in the world to not have Dreamliner service. It’s true. Look it up.

Hockeyguy1181 wrote:

Especially since American refuses to fly any refurbished planes into charlotte. CLT is the largest airport in the world to not have Dreamliner service. It’s true. Look it up.

It’s not surprising. CLT ranks last, behind SLC, in local enplanements among truck hubs. It’s nearly exclusively a domestic/Caribbean hub for AA. No transpacific or South American long-haul, and limited European...

We had our first visit by an A350 to CLT today. The daily Munich flight switches this coming Sunday, but today's flight operated with the A359.

For this summer, I couldn't see a single A330 flight from MUC. Long hauls are either on A350s or A340s. Are they permanently moving the A330s to FRA whule letting A350s take over MUC long hauls?

acavpics wrote:

For this summer, I couldn't see a single A330 flight from MUC. Long hauls are either on A350s or A340s. Are they permanently moving the A330s to FRA whule letting A350s take over MUC long hauls?

yup,. 330s go to FRA. 346s come back from FRA and new 350s also join the MUC fleet.

daumueller wrote:

acavpics wrote:

For this summer, I couldn't see a single A330 flight from MUC. Long hauls are either on A350s or A340s. Are they permanently moving the A330s to FRA whule letting A350s take over MUC long hauls?

yup,. 330s go to FRA. 346s come back from FRA and new 350s also join the MUC fleet.

Are the A330s permanently leaving Munich? Or is this just for the summer?

acavpics wrote:

daumueller wrote:

acavpics wrote:

For this summer, I couldn't see a single A330 flight from MUC. Long hauls are either on A350s or A340s. Are they permanently moving the A330s to FRA whule letting A350s take over MUC long hauls?

yup,. 330s go to FRA. 346s come back from FRA and new 350s also join the MUC fleet.

Are the A330s permanently leaving Munich? Or is this just for the summer?

Given that all remaining 380s will move to Munich as well rather soon, not sure anything is predictable and permanent (the 346s coming back didn’t leave Munich too long ago).

daumueller wrote:

acavpics wrote:

daumueller wrote:

yup,. 330s go to FRA. 346s come back from FRA and new 350s also join the MUC fleet.

Are the A330s permanently leaving Munich? Or is this just for the summer?

Given that all remaining 380s will move to Munich as well rather soon, not sure anything is predictable and permanent (the 346s coming back didn’t leave Munich too long ago).

Next year 2 A380 will be moved to MUC, there's currently 5 A380s in MUC and 9 in FRA. So not the complete fleet just yet.

LH779 wrote:

daumueller wrote:

acavpics wrote:

Are the A330s permanently leaving Munich? Or is this just for the summer?

Given that all remaining 380s will move to Munich as well rather soon, not sure anything is predictable and permanent (the 346s coming back didn’t leave Munich too long ago).

Next year 2 A380 will be moved to MUC, there's currently 5 A380s in MUC and 9 in FRA. So not the complete fleet just yet.

just yet being key here.

6 380s will leave the fleet in 2022/2023 and the remaining goes to MUC as well

CV880 wrote:

German industry BMW @ GSP, Freightliner trucks in the CLT Metro & Siemens Energy...all based in MUC.

Don’t forget the Triad region of NC as well. The Volvo Group has a huge operation in Greensboro. Quite a few Swedes occupy the front seats of the LH flights from CLT to Germany, through to Sweden.

FRA-ORD will be 2 daily year round on Lufthansa:
Frankfurt – Chicago O’Hare eff 07OCT19 Seasonal 2nd daily LH432/433 extended to year-round from this date, operated by A340-300 for winter season

So excited to have the A343 coming back to O'Hare!

Btw there might even be some VFR on this route (for those of you surprised that a relatively small city can generate traffic without stateside feed) — the whole area was originally settled by Germans, the city and county are both named after Queen Charlotte Mecklenberg and cultural links are still strong.