DiamondFlyer
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:07 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
ScottB wrote:

The CR2s aren't leaving the Delta Connection fleet yet, but the total number in the fleet will decline.


I understand that. But you seem to imply that it’s an imminent parking of airplanes, when in actuality there is zero short term plan for removal of any CR2s


That depends on what you mean by short term. There's a plan to reduce count by about 75 by 2023.


Supply and demand of pilots will end the CR2 long before then at this rate
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jporterfi
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:16 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Fascinating to me that they are really focusing on DFW. Is that a TechOps station?


My educated guess would be they can use IAH and DFW to rotate them between the hubs without busting whatever the range cap imposed upon DL was.


What's the range capped at? If DL wants to operates routes beyond this, would they owe Bombardier/Airbus additional money for each aircraft that operates the longer routes, or for their A220 fleet as a whole?
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tlecam
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:17 pm

I'm curious about the range cap too. Wasn't there something about average stage length of 1000 miles, with Delta to pay more if they exceed that?
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indcwby
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:17 pm

I'm wondering why the A220 isn't considered for use between ATL and IAH/HOU/DFW.
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Atlwarrior
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:21 pm

The 220 give Delta a lot of flexibility. This will be fun to watch.
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:22 pm

The 220 gives Delta a lot of flexibility to try new things. This will be fun to watch.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:37 pm

indcwby wrote:
I'm wondering why the A220 isn't considered for use between ATL and IAH/HOU/DFW.


Lack of capacity
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slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:45 pm

The range limit could explain LGA-BOS at 184 miles that brings down your average quite a bit. LGA-DCA is a longer 214 miles, I wouldn't be surprised to see them make an appearance on that route too if they need to do some range average bring down routes.

I too am interested in the range limits, if still part of their deal.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:59 pm

Can someone point me to a link that explains the range cap? Seems to be too esoteric for the search function. Thanx!
 
B747forever
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:25 pm

Too bad we won't see them out on the West Coast for another while.
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NW747-400
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:38 pm

I believe the range cap is based on the A220 fleet average stage length and is defined as 1,000NM. Some segments will exceed 1,000NM while others will be well below. As long as the average is 1,000NM or less, DL is in compliance. I don't have time to find a source document right now but I will work on that later.
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:42 pm

NW747-400 wrote:
I believe the range cap is based on the A220 fleet average stage length and is defined as 1,000NM. Some segments will exceed 1,000NM while others will be well below. As long as the average is 1,000NM or less, DL is in compliance. I don't have time to find a source document right now but I will work on that later.


The mileage cap was dropped.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ia-452637/
 
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:54 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
These are some of the longest 2-class Rj routes in the system and as said eat up a lot of block time. For example a single turn requires 7+ hours of aircraft time. That frees up E70/E75/CR9 for other things.


I find this comment insightful and correct from a scheduling POV. The long routes also let Cseries (edit: oops I mean "A220") shine on cruise efficiency. It will alter these markets. Nothing can quite do what she can do.
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:09 pm

The removal of the mileage is big....begs the question what deal did Delta make with Airbus for it to be removed....may a top up order that would include the 500 .... interesting times ahead


KMCOFlyer wrote:
NW747-400 wrote:
I believe the range cap is based on the A220 fleet average stage length and is defined as 1,000NM. Some segments will exceed 1,000NM while others will be well below. As long as the average is 1,000NM or less, DL is in compliance. I don't have time to find a source document right now but I will work on that later.


The mileage cap was dropped.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ia-452637/
 
alasizon
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:10 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
NW747-400 wrote:
I believe the range cap is based on the A220 fleet average stage length and is defined as 1,000NM. Some segments will exceed 1,000NM while others will be well below. As long as the average is 1,000NM or less, DL is in compliance. I don't have time to find a source document right now but I will work on that later.


The mileage cap was dropped.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ia-452637/


My understanding of those comments are that they currently do not owe any payments, not that they never will.
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YYZYYT
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:40 pm

alasizon wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
NW747-400 wrote:
I believe the range cap is based on the A220 fleet average stage length and is defined as 1,000NM. Some segments will exceed 1,000NM while others will be well below. As long as the average is 1,000NM or less, DL is in compliance. I don't have time to find a source document right now but I will work on that later.


The mileage cap was dropped.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ia-452637/


My understanding of those comments are that they currently do not owe any payments, not that they never will.


Agreed...

The actual quote form the article is:

DL does not face "any obligation for payment of any kind to the manufacturer for routes flown beyond any mileage threshold",

This could also mean that DL doesn't owe $ if it operates the A220* on a flight beyond the range limit, because the average could still be below.

YYZYYT

* still seems strange to call it that, instead of CS100
 
Nola
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:05 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Fascinating to me that they are really focusing on DFW. Is that a TechOps station?


My educated guess would be they can use IAH and DFW to rotate them between the hubs without busting whatever the range cap imposed upon DL was.


There was a post in another thread (I don't remember which one) that indicated that Dallas would be a midpoint/turn area for the C series rotating between East and West coasts to promote aircraft utilization, which would make sense.
 
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itripreport
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:38 pm

Does anybody know at what time does Delta update their flight schedule on Saturdays? Its because I'm planning on attending this flight but I want to purchase a seat the moment the seats go on sale in order to get a good seat, thanks!
 
CairnterriAIR
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:39 pm

Put those planes out of Key West and New Haven...see what they were designed to do!
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:36 am

Pretty disappointed none of the flights touch RDU. What’s a focus city for if not to test routes!
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oldannyboy
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:22 am

N415XJ wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Can't wait to see that beauty in DL colours!!!


It was rolled out in full DL colors a few weeks ago

https://news.delta.com/fresh-paint-shop ... first-a220


Yes, I know, my bad, thanks. What I really meant was in full airline service.
 
skymiler
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:44 am

The DL web site shows that DL 2952 LGA-DFW on Jan 31 is available for purchase and denotes A200-100 yet the seat map shows an A319. Would any DL staff on this forum have an insight as to which is correct?
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Northwest1988
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:09 pm

Looks like the first a220 flight is LGA-BOS 0600 departure.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:24 pm

The A220 will free up other aircraft and will finally allow Delta to move a CRJ900 into a SBN-LGA or JFK route for which they have a five year open RFP with the SBN DGS group for.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:59 pm

Northwest1988 wrote:
Looks like the first a220 flight is LGA-BOS 0600 departure.


still shows as a 717


my bad, disregard my post


First class and comfort plus are showing as sold out.


its also loaded on LGA-DFW the 0745 flight, only one seat left in F.
 
UALFAson
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:44 pm

Northwest1988 wrote:
Looks like the first a220 flight is LGA-BOS 0600 departure.


I just bought a one-way ticket on this flight. F and C+ are already sold out as of 1030 Central time. Seems weird to have an inaugural flight at 0600 from a media/PR standpoint, but the ticket was cheap enough that if they do something sooner (i.e. the day before), I'll just eat the cost.

Now to figure out how to get from BNA to NYC and back from BOS!
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TW870
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:02 pm

As of 1100 central, it looks like the schedule is:

3x LGA-BOS (the 0600, 1400, and 1800 departures)
2x LGA-DFW (the 1245 and 1730 departures)

This is what appears for Friday February 1st.

Interesting that LGA-BOS is a mix of E75, 220, 717, 319, and 320 on that day.

So glad to have the new plane on the schedule!
 
FlyXJtoCMX
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:20 pm

Interesting how Google Flights never got the message...

6:00 PM
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:59 pm

Note that the CS100 has the range to fly transcons if needed.

And for the Francophiles: The aircraft is coded as "WCS" in the system and has "CS100" painted below the nose for the ground crew to see.
To me, it will always be:
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itripreport
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:06 pm

Already got my ticket on the 0745 flight to Dallas, I feel like the Boston trip is too short to enjoy the aircraft.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:55 pm

I wonder where DL will do the maintenance.
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jumbojet
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:57 pm

itripreport wrote:
Already got my ticket on the 0745 flight to Dallas, I feel like the Boston trip is too short to enjoy the aircraft.


Im tempted to do the same. That 7:45 AM flight and the same day return, flight 2949, coach outbound, first inbound for $400.00.
 
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:57 pm

alasizon wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
NW747-400 wrote:
I believe the range cap is based on the A220 fleet average stage length and is defined as 1,000NM. Some segments will exceed 1,000NM while others will be well below. As long as the average is 1,000NM or less, DL is in compliance. I don't have time to find a source document right now but I will work on that later.


The mileage cap was dropped.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ia-452637/


My understanding of those comments are that they currently do not owe any payments, not that they never will.


I suspect once the CS100 became an Airbus aircraft Delta had enough leverage with Airbus with all of the A321, A321NEO, A359 and A339 on order for Airbus to just waive any ''top up'' range adjustment fees. I am sure Delta by now has probably indicated to Airbus that they will probably only take the 35 CS100 A220-100 in that size and are probably currently negotiating on switching the balance of the original order as well as the option to the CS300 A220-300 size. So if the ''top up payment'' to Bombardier for removing any self imposed operating range restrictions was lets speculate in the range of $2 or $3 million per aircraft, i.e. $70-$100 million in total, this is but a fraction of a percent of the current Delta-Airbus open order book.

As of September 30, 2018 Delta has an aircraft commitment position of about $15.5bn. About $1bn of this is for the remaining 26 B737-900ER still to be delivered. About $400mm of this is for the 19 CR9's Delta ordered from what remains of Bombardier Aircraft for Skywest to operate, leaving fully $14bn in Airbus aircraft on order. without even counting the value of any options. A $70-$100million A220-100 adjustment clause is a pretty minor thing for Airbus to waive in the scheme of their overall business relationship. Plus we are not privy to what the CS100 contract provided for in late delivery allowances, and we know CS100 A220-100 deliveries are behind schedule. In the overall relationship waiving this type of range adjustment fee falls under the category ''chump change''!
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9252fly
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:03 pm

Is it hypothetically possible that if a potential A220-500 exists in design that DL could find good use for it?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:03 pm

UALFAson wrote:
Northwest1988 wrote:
Looks like the first a220 flight is LGA-BOS 0600 departure.


weird to have an inaugural flight at 0600 from a media/PR standpoint, but the ticket was cheap enough that if they do something sooner (i.e. the day before), I'll just eat the cost.

Now to figure out how to get from BNA to NYC and back from BOS!


I don't think the media really cares. why would anyone in the general public care?? it's not like CBS nightly news is going to show up to see the departure. Delta will make a hoopla for their employees etc but it's not really something the general media will care about.
 
N649DL
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:33 am

Interesting it's DFW and IAH focused for DL. I wonder what the catch is considering they aren't hub or focus cities?
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:52 am

I’m confused, I thought the mileage threshold was a design specification of the a220 ordered by Delta, not a legal limit imposed by then Bombardier.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:37 am

coronado wrote:
Plus we are not privy to what the CS100 contract provided for in late delivery allowances, and we know CS100 A220-100 deliveries are behind schedule. In the overall relationship waiving this type of range adjustment fee falls under the category ''chump change''!


It was a mutually agreed to deferral. I think DL expected BBD & DL to lose their case in front of the ITC against Boeing, so DL sought a guarantee that all their frames would be manufactured in the United States to avoid any potential tariffs. Then boom.. they won. No need for the US manufacture guarantee. So delivery could begin as soon as practical for both DL & BBD.

CarlosSi wrote:
I’m confused, I thought the mileage threshold was a design specification of the a220 ordered by Delta, not a legal limit imposed by then Bombardier.


There has not been the concrete answer regarding 1,000-2,000 nm limit on DL's CS100s. Some speculate its software restricted and others speculate in just contractual. Sooner or later we will we'll get the real answer from either BBD or DL.
 
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itripreport
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:34 am

I feel like the majority of the media will be onboard the LGA trip, just like back when united debuted the MAX, majority of the media attended the flight to Anchorage instead of the flight to Orlando, which was technically the first one.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:16 pm

9252fly wrote:
Is it hypothetically possible that if a potential A220-500 exists in design that DL could find good use for it?


Yes and yes.

Imho, this is why Boeing did their dumping claim. Fear. CS500/A220-500 will be a fantastic 149 seat aircraft when (not if) it appears.

I expect Delta to order another 100-150 A220s in the next 12-18 months. They're gonna have to pay real money this time, and they will gladly do so.

The only problem with the A220 right now is getting them fast enough.....I'm sure there are plenty of routes to come. RDU/BNA/TPA to west coast/SLC. Texas (incl AUS) to east and west coast hubs. A220 will be perfect for the SLC, LAX, and SEA hubs,

I wonder how long AA and UAL can sit on the sidelines, but then again, never underestimate the stupidity of their management.
 
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:45 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
Northwest1988 wrote:
Looks like the first a220 flight is LGA-BOS 0600 departure.


weird to have an inaugural flight at 0600 from a media/PR standpoint, but the ticket was cheap enough that if they do something sooner (i.e. the day before), I'll just eat the cost.

Now to figure out how to get from BNA to NYC and back from BOS!


I don't think the media really cares. why would anyone in the general public care?? it's not like CBS nightly news is going to show up to see the departure. Delta will make a hoopla for their employees etc but it's not really something the general media will care about.


I disagree. I was thinking less CBS Evening News and more like "Today in the Sky" from USA Today, the Points Guy, and other travel bloggers. We're talking about the first flight of a completely new airplane model--that's a decent story. I could even see the local NYC TV stations at least sending a cameraperson to get some footage for a 30-60 second voiceover piece.
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ual777newpaint
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:23 pm

I'm really tempted to fly the 0600 LGA-BOS on 1/31...
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:27 pm

SteelChair wrote:
9252fly wrote:
Is it hypothetically possible that if a potential A220-500 exists in design that DL could find good use for it?


Yes and yes.

Imho, this is why Boeing did their dumping claim. Fear. CS500/A220-500 will be a fantastic 149 seat aircraft when (not if) it appears.

I expect Delta to order another 100-150 A220s in the next 12-18 months. They're gonna have to pay real money this time, and they will gladly do so.

The only problem with the A220 right now is getting them fast enough.....I'm sure there are plenty of routes to come. RDU/BNA/TPA to west coast/SLC. Texas (incl AUS) to east and west coast hubs. A220 will be perfect for the SLC, LAX, and SEA hubs,

I wonder how long AA and UAL can sit on the sidelines, but then again, never underestimate the stupidity of their management.

I do not expect a top off until after the first c-check. If before, DL will be buying at heavy discount.

That said, the A220 business case is much improved since DL ordered thanks to JetBlue and the LOI from Moxie.

Production needs to accelerate for economics of scale. Every doubling cuts the cost per unit 13% above 25 per year.

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TW870
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:28 pm

ual777newpaint wrote:
I'm really tempted to fly the 0600 LGA-BOS on 1/31...


Tempting to be on the first flight for sure, but I think it is too early and too short. I am thinking of getting on one of the early DFW flights, then overnighting in DFW and doing some spotting.
 
ytz
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:32 pm

SteelChair wrote:
9252fly wrote:
Is it hypothetically possible that if a potential A220-500 exists in design that DL could find good use for it?


Yes and yes.

Imho, this is why Boeing did their dumping claim. Fear. CS500/A220-500 will be a fantastic 149 seat aircraft when (not if) it appears.

I expect Delta to order another 100-150 A220s in the next 12-18 months. They're gonna have to pay real money this time, and they will gladly do so.

The only problem with the A220 right now is getting them fast enough.....I'm sure there are plenty of routes to come. RDU/BNA/TPA to west coast/SLC. Texas (incl AUS) to east and west coast hubs. A220 will be perfect for the SLC, LAX, and SEA hubs,

I wonder how long AA and UAL can sit on the sidelines, but then again, never underestimate the stupidity of their management.


Fully agree. The combination of the CSeries and 321NEO would be killer for DL short-haul. May not even need the MOM to be competitive.I could even see DL being the launch customer for 225.

Will be interesting to see what top up order shows up when they exercise the 50 options they have. The 221 let's them replace RJs. The 223s will let them replace the 319s and 73Gs. But I would think they'd have wanted something bigger like the 225 for this replacement. Or would have stuck with 320NEOs and 7M8s. They'd need another 90 223s to everyday replace those 717s. Might be too early for that order.

The 225 is all a question of how many 320NEO sales Airbus is willing to cannibalize. Hopefully a 150 frame launch order from DL to replace their 32Os and 738s can tempt Airbus into pulling the trigger.

I actually think passengers will notice the difference. And hopefully, will help boost premiums for DL while cutting costs.
Last edited by ytz on Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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spinkid
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:36 pm

I wouldn't put that much stock into the initial routes they are planning. They are keeping them close to their hubs so they can get crew trained on them first and work out mx issues. Once they see their actual performance and more of the planes in the fleet we'll see where they wind up.
 
N212R
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:09 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I do not expect a top off until after the first c-check. If before, DL will be buying at heavy discount.


It would appear Delta (and Airbus) are treading lightly with their new "orphaned" model. The lack of hoopla for the inaugural would lend credence to that strategy.
 
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:13 am

N212R wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I do not expect a top off until after the first c-check. If before, DL will be buying at heavy discount.


It would appear Delta (and Airbus) are treading lightly with their new "orphaned" model. The lack of hoopla for the inaugural would lend credence to that strategy.


What are you talking about? I don't see a "lack of hoopla". We're months out from actual service launch. If they don't have "hoopla" at their first revenue flight, you can claim why you just did.

Seems to me both Airbus and DL look appropriately excited for this launch.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1575
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:44 am

I'm hoping CVG will benefit once all of the C Series are on property and larger rj's are freed up. CVG is in desperate need of resumption of service to cities like MSY, MEM, BNA, PIT. They need at least two flights a day to work properly. CVG is the sole remaining connection point that is actually pleasant. I try and connect there whenevee possible but DL really screws up timings for connection on some routes.
 
teachpdx
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:51 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:50 am

I just bought tix for the first day, the morning DFW-LGA and then the following LGA-BOS. Surprisingly affordable, actually. I’ve been a fanboy of this plane since the very beginning, so I’m more than a little excited for this.
Up Next: AS PDX-LAX | MU LAX-PVG-BKK | DD DMK-KBV | FD KBV-DMK-HAN | FD HAN-CNX | MU CNX-PVG-YVR

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