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DeltaRules
Posts: 5181
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:56 am

N649DL wrote:
Interesting it's DFW and IAH focused for DL. I wonder what the catch is considering they aren't hub or focus cities?


Rotation between DL's Eastern and Western hubs.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:28 am

Anyone want to meet up on the 0745 LGA-DFW flight? I'll be way in the back. F and C+ is already sold out!
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:35 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
I'm hoping CVG will benefit once all of the C Series are on property and larger rj's are freed up. CVG is in desperate need of resumption of service to cities like MSY, MEM, BNA, PIT. They need at least two flights a day to work properly. CVG is the sole remaining connection point that is actually pleasant. I try and connect there whenever possible but DL really screws up timings for connection on some routes.

Not sure the CSeries will help for these routes. Unfortunately DL has decided to par down connections at CVG and focus on O&D. As a result, low PDEW routes like PIT/BNA are not viable even on the CRJ-200. MEM/MSY have the PDEW to work on O&D, but these are CRJ/7/9 routes.

At CVG, the CSeries would be useful on routes currently being operated by CR9/E175. Routes that come to mind are DFW, IAH, AUS, MCI, NYC, BOS, DTW, MSP, etc. I'd love to see PDX/SAN again, but I imagine DL will wait until the 737 will work on these routes given the pilot base.
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 3139
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:57 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
I wonder where DL will do the maintenance.

Any current Delta Line station will do the A check work. So it could be just about every station listed in this thread. Most of the stations mentioned have a Line Mtc station. Each of the stations that it will operate through have sent at least a couple of mechanics to school to be engine run and autoland qualified on the aircraft.

As far as c check, who knows. That is two years away.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:02 pm

cvgComair wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I'm hoping CVG will benefit once all of the C Series are on property and larger rj's are freed up. CVG is in desperate need of resumption of service to cities like MSY, MEM, BNA, PIT. They need at least two flights a day to work properly. CVG is the sole remaining connection point that is actually pleasant. I try and connect there whenever possible but DL really screws up timings for connection on some routes.

Not sure the CSeries will help for these routes. Unfortunately DL has decided to par down connections at CVG and focus on O&D. As a result, low PDEW routes like PIT/BNA are not viable even on the CRJ-200. MEM/MSY have the PDEW to work on O&D, but these are CRJ/7/9 routes.

At CVG, the CSeries would be useful on routes currently being operated by CR9/E175. Routes that come to mind are DFW, IAH, AUS, MCI, NYC, BOS, DTW, MSP, etc. I'd love to see PDX/SAN again, but I imagine DL will wait until the 737 will work on these routes given the pilot base.


Good points. It really frustrated me to see the timing of the PHX flight. It really needs to be timed for some connections to be successful.
 
audidudi
Posts: 2357
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:42 pm

It's nice to see all the airports, including ATL, DAB, DFW, HSV, JAN, and MOB, that N101DU has been doing proving flights to this month!

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N101DU
 
audidudi
Posts: 2357
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:55 pm

The second aircraft for DL, N103DU, was delivered last Saturday:

Bombardier CS100 50022 N103DU Delta Air Lines delivery 08 December 2018 YMX-ATL ex C-FOWY
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:35 pm

I get that it’s a new plane to North America and that’s really cool!
But why the excitement about this plane from a customer experience standpoint?
Nobody seems overly sad about 2-3 seating on md-80(90) going away?
First class on the delta a220 has 36” pitch. For reference, the maligned aa 737-MAX8 is 37”
The Delta A220 comes with 30” pitch in Y on every plane, like the maligned MAX. Not all Y rows, but every plane has 30” pitch.
There’s less customer comfort on this plane the way Delta set it up than nearly any other UA/AA/DL mainline plane... why all the celebration about a degradation in customer comfort?
 
evank516
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:51 pm

How many more deliveries can we expect through 2019? When do you think we'll see more A220 routes announced?
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5284
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:43 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
I get that it’s a new plane to North America and that’s really cool!
But why the excitement about this plane from a customer experience standpoint?
Nobody seems overly sad about 2-3 seating on md-80(90) going away?
First class on the delta a220 has 36” pitch. For reference, the maligned aa 737-MAX8 is 37”
The Delta A220 comes with 30” pitch in Y on every plane, like the maligned MAX. Not all Y rows, but every plane has 30” pitch.
There’s less customer comfort on this plane the way Delta set it up than nearly any other UA/AA/DL mainline plane... why all the celebration about a degradation in customer comfort?


It's 37" in first class.

Ed Bastian has stated that as long as he is CEO pitch won't go below 31". Since the CS1/221 was done before he became CEO I would imagine any other plane moving forward wont see 30" pitch. On the flip side there is quite a bit of 32" in main cabin on the CS1.

http://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/delta-seat-pitch-below-31/
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:54 pm

Hey Burnsie, :)
It’s 36”
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta ... 0-100.php#

Ed Says 31”, but take a look at nearly any Delta narrowbody on seatguru, most aircraft (including airbus retrofits) have a few rows of 30” pitch. 31” pitch is a “standard” that’s trying to be PR’d out of the public domain.
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:05 pm

burnsie28 wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
I get that it’s a new plane to North America and that’s really cool!
But why the excitement about this plane from a customer experience standpoint?
Nobody seems overly sad about 2-3 seating on md-80(90) going away?
First class on the delta a220 has 36” pitch. For reference, the maligned aa 737-MAX8 is 37”
The Delta A220 comes with 30” pitch in Y on every plane, like the maligned MAX. Not all Y rows, but every plane has 30” pitch.
There’s less customer comfort on this plane the way Delta set it up than nearly any other UA/AA/DL mainline plane... why all the celebration about a degradation in customer comfort?


It's 37" in first class.

Ed Bastian has stated that as long as he is CEO pitch won't go below 31". Since the CS1/221 was done before he became CEO I would imagine any other plane moving forward wont see 30" pitch. On the flip side there is quite a bit of 32" in main cabin on the CS1.

http://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/delta-seat-pitch-below-31/

DL ordered the C Series 1 month before Ed Bastian became CEO (and when it was already known he would become CEO- DL didn’t even bother putting Richard Anderson in the order PR). I doubt cabin configuration was finalized before he became CEO, and certainly not done without any input from the then incoming CEO.
 
LawAndOrder
Posts: 262
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:55 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
I get that it’s a new plane to North America and that’s really cool!
But why the excitement about this plane from a customer experience standpoint?
Nobody seems overly sad about 2-3 seating on md-80(90) going away?
First class on the delta a220 has 36” pitch. For reference, the maligned aa 737-MAX8 is 37”
The Delta A220 comes with 30” pitch in Y on every plane, like the maligned MAX. Not all Y rows, but every plane has 30” pitch.
There’s less customer comfort on this plane the way Delta set it up than nearly any other UA/AA/DL mainline plane... why all the celebration about a degradation in customer comfort?


Economy seat pitch is 31 there will be no 30. That coupled with the widest narrow body seats and three large bathrooms for 109 seats is what makes it great for the customer experience especially economy. AA Max isn’t bad up front it’s the backs hats the issue.
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5284
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:55 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
Hey Burnsie, :)
It’s 36”
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta ... 0-100.php#

Ed Says 31”, but take a look at nearly any Delta narrowbody on seatguru, most aircraft (including airbus retrofits) have a few rows of 30” pitch. 31” pitch is a “standard” that’s trying to be PR’d out of the public domain.


Seat guru isn't correct. Secondly, all of the other planes were planned before he was CEO. The first plane to come after he becomes CEO is the A330 NEO. But for narrowbody the first one that will have been approved as him under CEO would be the A321NEO.
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5284
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:58 pm

LawAndOrder wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
I get that it’s a new plane to North America and that’s really cool!
But why the excitement about this plane from a customer experience standpoint?
Nobody seems overly sad about 2-3 seating on md-80(90) going away?
First class on the delta a220 has 36” pitch. For reference, the maligned aa 737-MAX8 is 37”
The Delta A220 comes with 30” pitch in Y on every plane, like the maligned MAX. Not all Y rows, but every plane has 30” pitch.
There’s less customer comfort on this plane the way Delta set it up than nearly any other UA/AA/DL mainline plane... why all the celebration about a degradation in customer comfort?


Economy seat pitch is 31 there will be no 30. That coupled with the widest narrow body seats and three large bathrooms for 109 seats is what makes it great for the customer experience especially economy. AA Max isn’t bad up front it’s the backs hats the issue.


There is 30" pitch on the A220-100
 
LawAndOrder
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:56 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:07 pm

burnsie28 wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
I get that it’s a new plane to North America and that’s really cool!
But why the excitement about this plane from a customer experience standpoint?
Nobody seems overly sad about 2-3 seating on md-80(90) going away?
First class on the delta a220 has 36” pitch. For reference, the maligned aa 737-MAX8 is 37”
The Delta A220 comes with 30” pitch in Y on every plane, like the maligned MAX. Not all Y rows, but every plane has 30” pitch.
There’s less customer comfort on this plane the way Delta set it up than nearly any other UA/AA/DL mainline plane... why all the celebration about a degradation in customer comfort?


Economy seat pitch is 31 there will be no 30. That coupled with the widest narrow body seats and three large bathrooms for 109 seats is what makes it great for the customer experience especially economy. AA Max isn’t bad up front it’s the backs hats the issue.


There is 30" pitch on the A220-100


You are right there are a couple rows of 30. But with 18.6 wife seats there goes your basic economy customers lol. Are we really comparing the c series to AA max.
 
Sooner787
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:12 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Guessing this is just the first round? Hoping to see these on LGA-MCI and LGA/JFK-ORD too.
Seems like DL is putting these on routes that use RJs, but face competition from AA or UA. It would become the defacto "best plane" on those routes, so maybe DL is able to capture a premium over their competitors.

I think it also highlights DL's inherent weakness in Texas.


We've been telling our DL reps for years when they've visited our travel agency in DFW we know DL has an amazing product,
but our clients don't like the RJ's. This new bird could be a real game changer for DL at DFW :)
 
LawAndOrder
Posts: 262
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:14 pm

burnsie28 wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
I get that it’s a new plane to North America and that’s really cool!
But why the excitement about this plane from a customer experience standpoint?
Nobody seems overly sad about 2-3 seating on md-80(90) going away?
First class on the delta a220 has 36” pitch. For reference, the maligned aa 737-MAX8 is 37”
The Delta A220 comes with 30” pitch in Y on every plane, like the maligned MAX. Not all Y rows, but every plane has 30” pitch.
There’s less customer comfort on this plane the way Delta set it up than nearly any other UA/AA/DL mainline plane... why all the celebration about a degradation in customer comfort?


Economy seat pitch is 31 there will be no 30. That coupled with the widest narrow body seats and three large bathrooms for 109 seats is what makes it great for the customer experience especially economy. AA Max isn’t bad up front it’s the backs hats the issue.


There is 30" pitch on the A220-100


You are right there are a couple rows of 30. But with 18.6 wife seats there goes your basic economy customers lol. Are we really comparing the c series to AA max.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:02 pm

Lawandorder,
Not really, No. not specifically comparing it to the Max plane for plane. Frankly, just comparing Delta’s a220 to the industry.
Simply wondering how anyone (including Delta marketing) can consider this plane an enhanced customer experience?
First class pitch: 36” or 37” (if Burnsie is correct) regardless: industry worst. Closest on the worst product is Delta’s own a319, a320, and a321 at 36” pitch. If it’s 37” pitch, you’d have to look at Delta’s own industry-worst F pitch on the 717, 73G, 739 and many 757 variants. AA would tie here at 37” on the MAX. United would never get anywhere close to this low of F seat pitch. AA wouldn’t on most of their aircraft either.
Y pitch on the a220: 30-31” is tied for industry lowest with the aa MAX as well as Delta’s 30” pitch on several rows on the a319, a320, 73G, 739, MD90, and several 757 seat variants
AA has the MAX that low. I guess the new 737 interiors too.
United never touches 30” pitch

Just a simple look at SeatGuru and it seems to show 30” pitch in Y is a relative standard across most narrow bodies in several rows for Delta that Ed Bastian doesn’t want to fix despite the rhetoric. The worst industry First class pitch seems to be the new standard as well, whether 36” or 37”

As a frequent flier, on hard product alone, I’m struggling why I’d fly the worst legroom/plane in the industry? Is their some huge marketing disconnect with Delta? I totally get that they run a great operation and excel at marketing their planes, just not sure why they’re leading the charge on the lowest seat pitch in F and probably have the most 30” flying in Y currently given how few aa planes have it
Given where I live, im more likely to fly aa or UA, but what’s up with the delta planes reducing pitch F/Y significantly ahead of the industry and no one calling it out?
Putting a tv in front of my face doesn’t make my knees less close to the seat in front of me.
I mean... so many people on this site rant about the aa a319 but it has significantly more room in F and Y than this a220 layout. What gives?
 
User avatar
zululima
Posts: 476
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:12 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
...the worst legroom/plane in the industry...


You know AA, UA, and DL don't constitute "the industry", right? There is worse seat pitch than Delta, even in the USA.

Seat Pitch is also a somewhat useless metric, as it doesn't account for the thickness of the seats themselves.
I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:48 pm

Pitch doesn't mean the same thing today as it used to. Seat design has evolved significantly. I flew a couple of Westjet Q400's recently. Seat pitch is reported to be 30-31 inches and I was astounded how much legroom I had.

I'm 6'1" tall. I could easily stretch out my legs and my knees never came close to touching the seat in front of me. Clever, long past due, ideas like moving the annoying magazine pocket from the bottom of the backrest to above the seat tray, and thinner seat backs have made a world of difference in passenger comfort while allowing airlines to increase seating in aircraft.

Win/win.

The seats were more comfortable than some long haul seats I've had to suffer with.
What the...?
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:59 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
Pitch doesn't mean the same thing today as it used to. Seat design has evolved significantly. I flew a couple of Westjet Q400's recently. Seat pitch is reported to be 30-31 inches and I was astounded how much legroom I had.

I'm 6'1" tall. I could easily stretch out my legs and my knees never came close to touching the seat in front of me. Clever, long past due, ideas like moving the annoying magazine pocket from the bottom of the backrest to above the seat tray, and thinner seat backs have made a world of difference in passenger comfort while allowing airlines to increase seating in aircraft.

Win/win.

The seats were more comfortable than some long haul seats I've had to suffer with.


Hey Joe,
Totally agree that pitch doesn't mean exactly the same as in the past (given seat changes), but I do think the pitch Delta chose for this aircraft is pertinent in this instance since it's competing with similar redesigned seats from AA and UA. UA has seats at 31" even with the new slimline. Just think the marketing is weird for Delta and that they're leading the way on reduced pitch on narrow bodies. That's all. I guess I'm biased, but United seems to be the only airline that is actually keeping a real 31" standard and a real F pitch on all their aircraft.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5359
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:09 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
Lawandorder,
Not really, No. not specifically comparing it to the Max plane for plane. Frankly, just comparing Delta’s a220 to the industry.
Simply wondering how anyone (including Delta marketing) can consider this plane an enhanced customer experience?
First class pitch: 36” or 37” (if Burnsie is correct) regardless: industry worst. Closest on the worst product is Delta’s own a319, a320, and a321 at 36” pitch. If it’s 37” pitch, you’d have to look at Delta’s own industry-worst F pitch on the 717, 73G, 739 and many 757 variants. AA would tie here at 37” on the MAX. United would never get anywhere close to this low of F seat pitch. AA wouldn’t on most of their aircraft either.
Y pitch on the a220: 30-31” is tied for industry lowest with the aa MAX as well as Delta’s 30” pitch on several rows on the a319, a320, 73G, 739, MD90, and several 757 seat variants
AA has the MAX that low. I guess the new 737 interiors too.
United never touches 30” pitch

Just a simple look at SeatGuru and it seems to show 30” pitch in Y is a relative standard across most narrow bodies in several rows for Delta that Ed Bastian doesn’t want to fix despite the rhetoric. The worst industry First class pitch seems to be the new standard as well, whether 36” or 37”

As a frequent flier, on hard product alone, I’m struggling why I’d fly the worst legroom/plane in the industry? Is their some huge marketing disconnect with Delta? I totally get that they run a great operation and excel at marketing their planes, just not sure why they’re leading the charge on the lowest seat pitch in F and probably have the most 30” flying in Y currently given how few aa planes have it
Given where I live, im more likely to fly aa or UA, but what’s up with the delta planes reducing pitch F/Y significantly ahead of the industry and no one calling it out?
Putting a tv in front of my face doesn’t make my knees less close to the seat in front of me.
I mean... so many people on this site rant about the aa a319 but it has significantly more room in F and Y than this a220 layout. What gives?

everyone in this thread "JAMBOJET seat guru isn't right"
JAMBOJET "yeah well seat guru says" :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Seatguru is all over the place. They have done a better job of cleaning the Delta side up(it use to be a real mess) but it is still off in several areas. (I honestly didn't even realize people still use it as a source)

If a Delta aircraft has 30in pitch on it, it is literally 3-4 seats at most. The vast majority of seats in Y are 31 or higher, across the fleet.

Also why is everyone excited over this airplane? Well its a mainline product when United and American would be giving you at best a 76 seater, in some cases 50 seaters. The width of the seats are by far the biggest in the industry. Its a new airplane that is going to allow quite a few routes to go from mostly or all DCI to mostly or all mainline. The airplane is going to mean more F and more Y+ in markets (generally). Shall I go on?
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5359
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:10 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:
Pitch doesn't mean the same thing today as it used to. Seat design has evolved significantly. I flew a couple of Westjet Q400's recently. Seat pitch is reported to be 30-31 inches and I was astounded how much legroom I had.

I'm 6'1" tall. I could easily stretch out my legs and my knees never came close to touching the seat in front of me. Clever, long past due, ideas like moving the annoying magazine pocket from the bottom of the backrest to above the seat tray, and thinner seat backs have made a world of difference in passenger comfort while allowing airlines to increase seating in aircraft.

Win/win.

The seats were more comfortable than some long haul seats I've had to suffer with.


Hey Joe,
Totally agree that pitch doesn't mean exactly the same as in the past (given seat changes), but I do think the pitch Delta chose for this aircraft is pertinent in this instance since it's competing with similar redesigned seats from AA and UA. UA has seats at 31" even with the new slimline. Just think the marketing is weird for Delta and that they're leading the way on reduced pitch on narrow bodies. That's all. I guess I'm biased, but United seems to be the only airline that is actually keeping a real 31" standard and a real F pitch on all their aircraft.

I don't fly United but I don't believe you that they don't have a single seat in the fleet at under 31 in pitch. Do you have a real source for this? (aka not seat guru or wiki)
 
micstatic
Posts: 766
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:07 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:16 pm

Seat width. That’s why the plane is better. People traveling alone or with a companion prefer two side aircraft to 3
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:38 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Lawandorder,
Not really, No. not specifically comparing it to the Max plane for plane. Frankly, just comparing Delta’s a220 to the industry.
Simply wondering how anyone (including Delta marketing) can consider this plane an enhanced customer experience?
First class pitch: 36” or 37” (if Burnsie is correct) regardless: industry worst. Closest on the worst product is Delta’s own a319, a320, and a321 at 36” pitch. If it’s 37” pitch, you’d have to look at Delta’s own industry-worst F pitch on the 717, 73G, 739 and many 757 variants. AA would tie here at 37” on the MAX. United would never get anywhere close to this low of F seat pitch. AA wouldn’t on most of their aircraft either.
Y pitch on the a220: 30-31” is tied for industry lowest with the aa MAX as well as Delta’s 30” pitch on several rows on the a319, a320, 73G, 739, MD90, and several 757 seat variants
AA has the MAX that low. I guess the new 737 interiors too.
United never touches 30” pitch

Just a simple look at SeatGuru and it seems to show 30” pitch in Y is a relative standard across most narrow bodies in several rows for Delta that Ed Bastian doesn’t want to fix despite the rhetoric. The worst industry First class pitch seems to be the new standard as well, whether 36” or 37”

As a frequent flier, on hard product alone, I’m struggling why I’d fly the worst legroom/plane in the industry? Is their some huge marketing disconnect with Delta? I totally get that they run a great operation and excel at marketing their planes, just not sure why they’re leading the charge on the lowest seat pitch in F and probably have the most 30” flying in Y currently given how few aa planes have it
Given where I live, im more likely to fly aa or UA, but what’s up with the delta planes reducing pitch F/Y significantly ahead of the industry and no one calling it out?
Putting a tv in front of my face doesn’t make my knees less close to the seat in front of me.
I mean... so many people on this site rant about the aa a319 but it has significantly more room in F and Y than this a220 layout. What gives?

everyone in this thread "JAMBOJET seat guru isn't right"
JAMBOJET "yeah well seat guru says" :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Seatguru is all over the place. They have done a better job of cleaning the Delta side up(it use to be a real mess) but it is still off in several areas. (I honestly didn't even realize people still use it as a source)

If a Delta aircraft has 30in pitch on it, it is literally 3-4 seats at most. The vast majority of seats in Y are 31 or higher, across the fleet.

Also why is everyone excited over this airplane? Well its a mainline product when United and American would be giving you at best a 76 seater, in some cases 50 seaters. The width of the seats are by far the biggest in the industry. Its a new airplane that is going to allow quite a few routes to go from mostly or all DCI to mostly or all mainline. The airplane is going to mean more F and more Y+ in markets (generally). Shall I go on?

Can’t wait to see any sources from you backing up your assumptions about seat pitch on delta or United aircraft. Just saying i’m wrong with zero sourcing helps no one. Burnsie said he believes the 36” F pitch is incorrect. He thinks it’s 37”. Fine. Still the lowest in the industry.
Any public sources will do. :)

And remind me again where Delta is currently deploying this plane against AA/UA regional? It’s actually the opposite. Delta was largely using regional on those routes and now utilizing a mainline plane with lower/equal seat pitch in F/Y vs their old regional product and an inferior hard product against the mainline product of aa and ua, not to mention aa/ua regional hard product.

Micro— fair point about seat width. But if 2-3 preference seating had any revenue premium truth, we’d see aa and delta falling over themselves to keep the md-80 series. The opposite is true. They can’t leave the fleets fast enough.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:53 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Lawandorder,
Not really, No. not specifically comparing it to the Max plane for plane. Frankly, just comparing Delta’s a220 to the industry.
Simply wondering how anyone (including Delta marketing) can consider this plane an enhanced customer experience?
First class pitch: 36” or 37” (if Burnsie is correct) regardless: industry worst. Closest on the worst product is Delta’s own a319, a320, and a321 at 36” pitch. If it’s 37” pitch, you’d have to look at Delta’s own industry-worst F pitch on the 717, 73G, 739 and many 757 variants. AA would tie here at 37” on the MAX. United would never get anywhere close to this low of F seat pitch. AA wouldn’t on most of their aircraft either.
Y pitch on the a220: 30-31” is tied for industry lowest with the aa MAX as well as Delta’s 30” pitch on several rows on the a319, a320, 73G, 739, MD90, and several 757 seat variants
AA has the MAX that low. I guess the new 737 interiors too.
United never touches 30” pitch

Just a simple look at SeatGuru and it seems to show 30” pitch in Y is a relative standard across most narrow bodies in several rows for Delta that Ed Bastian doesn’t want to fix despite the rhetoric. The worst industry First class pitch seems to be the new standard as well, whether 36” or 37”

As a frequent flier, on hard product alone, I’m struggling why I’d fly the worst legroom/plane in the industry? Is their some huge marketing disconnect with Delta? I totally get that they run a great operation and excel at marketing their planes, just not sure why they’re leading the charge on the lowest seat pitch in F and probably have the most 30” flying in Y currently given how few aa planes have it
Given where I live, im more likely to fly aa or UA, but what’s up with the delta planes reducing pitch F/Y significantly ahead of the industry and no one calling it out?
Putting a tv in front of my face doesn’t make my knees less close to the seat in front of me.
I mean... so many people on this site rant about the aa a319 but it has significantly more room in F and Y than this a220 layout. What gives?

everyone in this thread "JAMBOJET seat guru isn't right"
JAMBOJET "yeah well seat guru says" :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Seatguru is all over the place. They have done a better job of cleaning the Delta side up(it use to be a real mess) but it is still off in several areas. (I honestly didn't even realize people still use it as a source)

If a Delta aircraft has 30in pitch on it, it is literally 3-4 seats at most. The vast majority of seats in Y are 31 or higher, across the fleet.

Also why is everyone excited over this airplane? Well its a mainline product when United and American would be giving you at best a 76 seater, in some cases 50 seaters. The width of the seats are by far the biggest in the industry. Its a new airplane that is going to allow quite a few routes to go from mostly or all DCI to mostly or all mainline. The airplane is going to mean more F and more Y+ in markets (generally). Shall I go on?

Tell ya what. I’ll help. You’re right. SeatGuru is wrong sometimes. It says the delta a321 is 31” pitch in Y. Turns out it’s 30 or 31” per Delta, coupled with f pitch at AA Max-tying 37”.
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a321.html

Take a scroll. The a220 isn’t up yet. But the rest of the Delta fleet is littered with 30-31” pitch in Y and industry-lowest First class pitch. Let’s call a spade a spade. United is the only airline maintaining 31” pitch and keeping the extra few inches in F pitch. I guess their marketing department isn’t as good at crowing...
 
jb1087xna
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:11 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:11 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Lawandorder,
Not really, No. not specifically comparing it to the Max plane for plane. Frankly, just comparing Delta’s a220 to the industry.
Simply wondering how anyone (including Delta marketing) can consider this plane an enhanced customer experience?
First class pitch: 36” or 37” (if Burnsie is correct) regardless: industry worst. Closest on the worst product is Delta’s own a319, a320, and a321 at 36” pitch. If it’s 37” pitch, you’d have to look at Delta’s own industry-worst F pitch on the 717, 73G, 739 and many 757 variants. AA would tie here at 37” on the MAX. United would never get anywhere close to this low of F seat pitch. AA wouldn’t on most of their aircraft either.
Y pitch on the a220: 30-31” is tied for industry lowest with the aa MAX as well as Delta’s 30” pitch on several rows on the a319, a320, 73G, 739, MD90, and several 757 seat variants
AA has the MAX that low. I guess the new 737 interiors too.
United never touches 30” pitch

Just a simple look at SeatGuru and it seems to show 30” pitch in Y is a relative standard across most narrow bodies in several rows for Delta that Ed Bastian doesn’t want to fix despite the rhetoric. The worst industry First class pitch seems to be the new standard as well, whether 36” or 37”

As a frequent flier, on hard product alone, I’m struggling why I’d fly the worst legroom/plane in the industry? Is their some huge marketing disconnect with Delta? I totally get that they run a great operation and excel at marketing their planes, just not sure why they’re leading the charge on the lowest seat pitch in F and probably have the most 30” flying in Y currently given how few aa planes have it
Given where I live, im more likely to fly aa or UA, but what’s up with the delta planes reducing pitch F/Y significantly ahead of the industry and no one calling it out?
Putting a tv in front of my face doesn’t make my knees less close to the seat in front of me.
I mean... so many people on this site rant about the aa a319 but it has significantly more room in F and Y than this a220 layout. What gives?

everyone in this thread "JAMBOJET seat guru isn't right"
JAMBOJET "yeah well seat guru says" :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Seatguru is all over the place. They have done a better job of cleaning the Delta side up(it use to be a real mess) but it is still off in several areas. (I honestly didn't even realize people still use it as a source)

If a Delta aircraft has 30in pitch on it, it is literally 3-4 seats at most. The vast majority of seats in Y are 31 or higher, across the fleet.

Also why is everyone excited over this airplane? Well its a mainline product when United and American would be giving you at best a 76 seater, in some cases 50 seaters. The width of the seats are by far the biggest in the industry. Its a new airplane that is going to allow quite a few routes to go from mostly or all DCI to mostly or all mainline. The airplane is going to mean more F and more Y+ in markets (generally). Shall I go on?

Tell ya what. I’ll help. You’re right. SeatGuru is wrong sometimes. It says the delta a321 is 31” pitch in Y. Turns out it’s 30 or 31” per Delta, coupled with f pitch at AA Max-tying 37”.
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a321.html

Take a scroll. The a220 isn’t up yet. But the rest of the Delta fleet is littered with 30-31” pitch in Y and industry-lowest First class pitch. Let’s call a spade a spade. United is the only airline maintaining 31” pitch and keeping the extra few inches in F pitch. I guess their marketing department isn’t as good at crowing...


To your point about SeatGuru, American's website is listing the pitch of the A319 in Y at 30", yet SG is saying 31".
 
micstatic
Posts: 766
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:07 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:14 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Lawandorder,
Not really, No. not specifically comparing it to the Max plane for plane. Frankly, just comparing Delta’s a220 to the industry.
Simply wondering how anyone (including Delta marketing) can consider this plane an enhanced customer experience?
First class pitch: 36” or 37” (if Burnsie is correct) regardless: industry worst. Closest on the worst product is Delta’s own a319, a320, and a321 at 36” pitch. If it’s 37” pitch, you’d have to look at Delta’s own industry-worst F pitch on the 717, 73G, 739 and many 757 variants. AA would tie here at 37” on the MAX. United would never get anywhere close to this low of F seat pitch. AA wouldn’t on most of their aircraft either.
Y pitch on the a220: 30-31” is tied for industry lowest with the aa MAX as well as Delta’s 30” pitch on several rows on the a319, a320, 73G, 739, MD90, and several 757 seat variants
AA has the MAX that low. I guess the new 737 interiors too.
United never touches 30” pitch

Just a simple look at SeatGuru and it seems to show 30” pitch in Y is a relative standard across most narrow bodies in several rows for Delta that Ed Bastian doesn’t want to fix despite the rhetoric. The worst industry First class pitch seems to be the new standard as well, whether 36” or 37”

As a frequent flier, on hard product alone, I’m struggling why I’d fly the worst legroom/plane in the industry? Is their some huge marketing disconnect with Delta? I totally get that they run a great operation and excel at marketing their planes, just not sure why they’re leading the charge on the lowest seat pitch in F and probably have the most 30” flying in Y currently given how few aa planes have it
Given where I live, im more likely to fly aa or UA, but what’s up with the delta planes reducing pitch F/Y significantly ahead of the industry and no one calling it out?
Putting a tv in front of my face doesn’t make my knees less close to the seat in front of me.
I mean... so many people on this site rant about the aa a319 but it has significantly more room in F and Y than this a220 layout. What gives?

everyone in this thread "JAMBOJET seat guru isn't right"
JAMBOJET "yeah well seat guru says" :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Seatguru is all over the place. They have done a better job of cleaning the Delta side up(it use to be a real mess) but it is still off in several areas. (I honestly didn't even realize people still use it as a source)

If a Delta aircraft has 30in pitch on it, it is literally 3-4 seats at most. The vast majority of seats in Y are 31 or higher, across the fleet.

Also why is everyone excited over this airplane? Well its a mainline product when United and American would be giving you at best a 76 seater, in some cases 50 seaters. The width of the seats are by far the biggest in the industry. Its a new airplane that is going to allow quite a few routes to go from mostly or all DCI to mostly or all mainline. The airplane is going to mean more F and more Y+ in markets (generally). Shall I go on?

Can’t wait to see any sources from you backing up your assumptions about seat pitch on delta or United aircraft. Just saying i’m wrong with zero sourcing helps no one. Burnsie said he believes the 36” F pitch is incorrect. He thinks it’s 37”. Fine. Still the lowest in the industry.
Any public sources will do. :)

And remind me again where Delta is currently deploying this plane against AA/UA regional? It’s actually the opposite. Delta was largely using regional on those routes and now utilizing a mainline plane with lower/equal seat pitch in F/Y vs their old regional product and an inferior hard product against the mainline product of aa and ua, not to mention aa/ua regional hard product.

Micro— fair point about seat width. But if 2-3 preference seating had any revenue premium truth, we’d see aa and delta falling over themselves to keep the md-80 series. The opposite is true. They can’t leave the fleets fast enough.


If you really think the md is being retired because it is a 2-3 there is no hope for you. I made no claim on revenue. I’m speaking about a preference I and most have.
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:19 pm

jb1087xna wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
everyone in this thread "JAMBOJET seat guru isn't right"
JAMBOJET "yeah well seat guru says" :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Seatguru is all over the place. They have done a better job of cleaning the Delta side up(it use to be a real mess) but it is still off in several areas. (I honestly didn't even realize people still use it as a source)

If a Delta aircraft has 30in pitch on it, it is literally 3-4 seats at most. The vast majority of seats in Y are 31 or higher, across the fleet.

Also why is everyone excited over this airplane? Well its a mainline product when United and American would be giving you at best a 76 seater, in some cases 50 seaters. The width of the seats are by far the biggest in the industry. Its a new airplane that is going to allow quite a few routes to go from mostly or all DCI to mostly or all mainline. The airplane is going to mean more F and more Y+ in markets (generally). Shall I go on?

Tell ya what. I’ll help. You’re right. SeatGuru is wrong sometimes. It says the delta a321 is 31” pitch in Y. Turns out it’s 30 or 31” per Delta, coupled with f pitch at AA Max-tying 37”.
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a321.html

Take a scroll. The a220 isn’t up yet. But the rest of the Delta fleet is littered with 30-31” pitch in Y and industry-lowest First class pitch. Let’s call a spade a spade. United is the only airline maintaining 31” pitch and keeping the extra few inches in F pitch. I guess their marketing department isn’t as good at crowing...


To your point about SeatGuru, American's website is listing the pitch of the A319 in Y at 30", yet SG is saying 31".

Good call. Point taken
On the a319, looks like:
Aa went 38/30
DL went 36/30-31
Delta put 132 seats on it with the tiny Max lavs
Aa put 128 with normal lavs
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:23 pm

micstatic wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
everyone in this thread "JAMBOJET seat guru isn't right"
JAMBOJET "yeah well seat guru says" :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Seatguru is all over the place. They have done a better job of cleaning the Delta side up(it use to be a real mess) but it is still off in several areas. (I honestly didn't even realize people still use it as a source)

If a Delta aircraft has 30in pitch on it, it is literally 3-4 seats at most. The vast majority of seats in Y are 31 or higher, across the fleet.

Also why is everyone excited over this airplane? Well its a mainline product when United and American would be giving you at best a 76 seater, in some cases 50 seaters. The width of the seats are by far the biggest in the industry. Its a new airplane that is going to allow quite a few routes to go from mostly or all DCI to mostly or all mainline. The airplane is going to mean more F and more Y+ in markets (generally). Shall I go on?

Can’t wait to see any sources from you backing up your assumptions about seat pitch on delta or United aircraft. Just saying i’m wrong with zero sourcing helps no one. Burnsie said he believes the 36” F pitch is incorrect. He thinks it’s 37”. Fine. Still the lowest in the industry.
Any public sources will do. :)

And remind me again where Delta is currently deploying this plane against AA/UA regional? It’s actually the opposite. Delta was largely using regional on those routes and now utilizing a mainline plane with lower/equal seat pitch in F/Y vs their old regional product and an inferior hard product against the mainline product of aa and ua, not to mention aa/ua regional hard product.

Micro— fair point about seat width. But if 2-3 preference seating had any revenue premium truth, we’d see aa and delta falling over themselves to keep the md-80 series. The opposite is true. They can’t leave the fleets fast enough.


If you really think the md is being retired because it is a 2-3 there is no hope for you. I made no claim on revenue. I’m speaking about a preference I and most have.

:)
I get your point and it’s well taken. Just noting that there are an awful lot of 3-3 planes being sold in the world if there was any truth to customers paying more for 2-3 seating which is the only preference that matters to airlines.
Just so we’re all clear on my opinions here, the a220 is an amazing plane and Bombardier did an incredible job on the engineering. I’m simply talking about the way Delta outfitted the plane in Y and F and how it conflicts with their marketing and stated 31” pitch “standard”, a standard that doesn’t really exist on their planes in reality.
 
jb1087xna
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:11 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:33 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
jb1087xna wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Tell ya what. I’ll help. You’re right. SeatGuru is wrong sometimes. It says the delta a321 is 31” pitch in Y. Turns out it’s 30 or 31” per Delta, coupled with f pitch at AA Max-tying 37”.
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a321.html

Take a scroll. The a220 isn’t up yet. But the rest of the Delta fleet is littered with 30-31” pitch in Y and industry-lowest First class pitch. Let’s call a spade a spade. United is the only airline maintaining 31” pitch and keeping the extra few inches in F pitch. I guess their marketing department isn’t as good at crowing...


To your point about SeatGuru, American's website is listing the pitch of the A319 in Y at 30", yet SG is saying 31".

Good call. Point taken
On the a319, looks like:
Aa went 38/30
DL went 36/30-31
Delta put 132 seats on it with the tiny Max lavs
Aa put 128 with normal lavs


Additionally,
SG has the pitch of UA's MAX 9 in Y as 31" while UA's website lists it as 30-31". Similarly, SG lists the seat width in UA's MAX 9 in Y as 18" while UA's website lists it as 17-17.5". And not to beat a dead horse, but SG has the F pitch in the same plane as 38" while UA's own website says 37". Clearly there are different public sources available that seem to be at odds.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:43 pm

jb1087xna wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
jb1087xna wrote:

To your point about SeatGuru, American's website is listing the pitch of the A319 in Y at 30", yet SG is saying 31".

Good call. Point taken
On the a319, looks like:
Aa went 38/30
DL went 36/30-31
Delta put 132 seats on it with the tiny Max lavs
Aa put 128 with normal lavs


Additionally,
SG has the pitch of UA's MAX 9 in Y as 31" while UA's website lists it as 30-31". Similarly, SG lists the seat width in UA's MAX 9 in Y as 18" while UA's website lists it as 17-17.5". And not to beat a dead horse, but SG has the F pitch in the same plane as 38" while UA's own website says 37". Clearly there are different public sources available that seem to be at odds.

Good catch :) I stand corrected. Everyone is sinking to 30” pitch and lowering F pitch. I’d still suggest Delta led the way with their airbus retrofits but I’m happy to be wrong :)
Over and Out.
 
TW870
Posts: 1224
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:51 pm

The original question that spawned this back and forth was why people are excited about the A220. I think the reason is that it is a total clean sheet design the solidifies the 100-130 seat category as a new and comfortable segment of the market between the E75 and 319/73G. Yes it is comfortable, but the attraction to the aircraft is because it may greatly improve the economics of service to thinner markets. It will both help mitigate rising fuel and labor costs while being a win for passengers. This minutia about seat size feels like a pointless conversation.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5359
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:21 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Lawandorder,
Not really, No. not specifically comparing it to the Max plane for plane. Frankly, just comparing Delta’s a220 to the industry.
Simply wondering how anyone (including Delta marketing) can consider this plane an enhanced customer experience?
First class pitch: 36” or 37” (if Burnsie is correct) regardless: industry worst. Closest on the worst product is Delta’s own a319, a320, and a321 at 36” pitch. If it’s 37” pitch, you’d have to look at Delta’s own industry-worst F pitch on the 717, 73G, 739 and many 757 variants. AA would tie here at 37” on the MAX. United would never get anywhere close to this low of F seat pitch. AA wouldn’t on most of their aircraft either.
Y pitch on the a220: 30-31” is tied for industry lowest with the aa MAX as well as Delta’s 30” pitch on several rows on the a319, a320, 73G, 739, MD90, and several 757 seat variants
AA has the MAX that low. I guess the new 737 interiors too.
United never touches 30” pitch

Just a simple look at SeatGuru and it seems to show 30” pitch in Y is a relative standard across most narrow bodies in several rows for Delta that Ed Bastian doesn’t want to fix despite the rhetoric. The worst industry First class pitch seems to be the new standard as well, whether 36” or 37”

As a frequent flier, on hard product alone, I’m struggling why I’d fly the worst legroom/plane in the industry? Is their some huge marketing disconnect with Delta? I totally get that they run a great operation and excel at marketing their planes, just not sure why they’re leading the charge on the lowest seat pitch in F and probably have the most 30” flying in Y currently given how few aa planes have it
Given where I live, im more likely to fly aa or UA, but what’s up with the delta planes reducing pitch F/Y significantly ahead of the industry and no one calling it out?
Putting a tv in front of my face doesn’t make my knees less close to the seat in front of me.
I mean... so many people on this site rant about the aa a319 but it has significantly more room in F and Y than this a220 layout. What gives?

everyone in this thread "JAMBOJET seat guru isn't right"
JAMBOJET "yeah well seat guru says" :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Seatguru is all over the place. They have done a better job of cleaning the Delta side up(it use to be a real mess) but it is still off in several areas. (I honestly didn't even realize people still use it as a source)

If a Delta aircraft has 30in pitch on it, it is literally 3-4 seats at most. The vast majority of seats in Y are 31 or higher, across the fleet.

Also why is everyone excited over this airplane? Well its a mainline product when United and American would be giving you at best a 76 seater, in some cases 50 seaters. The width of the seats are by far the biggest in the industry. Its a new airplane that is going to allow quite a few routes to go from mostly or all DCI to mostly or all mainline. The airplane is going to mean more F and more Y+ in markets (generally). Shall I go on?

Can’t wait to see any sources from you backing up your assumptions about seat pitch on delta or United aircraft. Just saying i’m wrong with zero sourcing helps no one. Burnsie said he believes the 36” F pitch is incorrect. He thinks it’s 37”. Fine. Still the lowest in the industry.
Any public sources will do. :)

Sources are I have been on the planes and checked?

For example, the 739 has all of (IIRC) 4 seats in Y that are 30 in pitch, the rest are higher.
On the 321 I believe it will be down to 2 seats once the configs are standard (If they aren't already, too lazy to look)
etc. etc.


JAMBOJET wrote:
And remind me again where Delta is currently deploying this plane against AA/UA regional? It’s actually the opposite. Delta was largely using regional on those routes and now utilizing a mainline plane with lower/equal seat pitch in F/Y vs their old regional product and an inferior hard product against the mainline product of aa and ua, not to mention aa/ua regional hard product.

LAX-AUS is an example. LAX-DFW would be an example vs United but IIRC they are cutting that one lose.
Of course we have just started the roll out of the airplane with 120 or so airplanes to go.

JAMBOJET wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Lawandorder,
Not really, No. not specifically comparing it to the Max plane for plane. Frankly, just comparing Delta’s a220 to the industry.
Simply wondering how anyone (including Delta marketing) can consider this plane an enhanced customer experience?
First class pitch: 36” or 37” (if Burnsie is correct) regardless: industry worst. Closest on the worst product is Delta’s own a319, a320, and a321 at 36” pitch. If it’s 37” pitch, you’d have to look at Delta’s own industry-worst F pitch on the 717, 73G, 739 and many 757 variants. AA would tie here at 37” on the MAX. United would never get anywhere close to this low of F seat pitch. AA wouldn’t on most of their aircraft either.
Y pitch on the a220: 30-31” is tied for industry lowest with the aa MAX as well as Delta’s 30” pitch on several rows on the a319, a320, 73G, 739, MD90, and several 757 seat variants
AA has the MAX that low. I guess the new 737 interiors too.
United never touches 30” pitch

Just a simple look at SeatGuru and it seems to show 30” pitch in Y is a relative standard across most narrow bodies in several rows for Delta that Ed Bastian doesn’t want to fix despite the rhetoric. The worst industry First class pitch seems to be the new standard as well, whether 36” or 37”

As a frequent flier, on hard product alone, I’m struggling why I’d fly the worst legroom/plane in the industry? Is their some huge marketing disconnect with Delta? I totally get that they run a great operation and excel at marketing their planes, just not sure why they’re leading the charge on the lowest seat pitch in F and probably have the most 30” flying in Y currently given how few aa planes have it
Given where I live, im more likely to fly aa or UA, but what’s up with the delta planes reducing pitch F/Y significantly ahead of the industry and no one calling it out?
Putting a tv in front of my face doesn’t make my knees less close to the seat in front of me.
I mean... so many people on this site rant about the aa a319 but it has significantly more room in F and Y than this a220 layout. What gives?

everyone in this thread "JAMBOJET seat guru isn't right"
JAMBOJET "yeah well seat guru says" :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Seatguru is all over the place. They have done a better job of cleaning the Delta side up(it use to be a real mess) but it is still off in several areas. (I honestly didn't even realize people still use it as a source)

If a Delta aircraft has 30in pitch on it, it is literally 3-4 seats at most. The vast majority of seats in Y are 31 or higher, across the fleet.

Also why is everyone excited over this airplane? Well its a mainline product when United and American would be giving you at best a 76 seater, in some cases 50 seaters. The width of the seats are by far the biggest in the industry. Its a new airplane that is going to allow quite a few routes to go from mostly or all DCI to mostly or all mainline. The airplane is going to mean more F and more Y+ in markets (generally). Shall I go on?

Tell ya what. I’ll help. You’re right. SeatGuru is wrong sometimes. It says the delta a321 is 31” pitch in Y. Turns out it’s 30 or 31” per Delta, coupled with f pitch at AA Max-tying 37”.
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a321.html

Take a scroll. The a220 isn’t up yet. But the rest of the Delta fleet is littered with 30-31” pitch in Y and industry-lowest First class pitch. Let’s call a spade a spade. United is the only airline maintaining 31” pitch and keeping the extra few inches in F pitch. I guess their marketing department isn’t as good at crowing...

as I said above, Delta lists it as 30-31 because some (I think all, but I can't remember on the 73W/738) of the modded aircraft have 2-6 seats or so that are in fact 30 in.

but in general Delta is still at average of 31 in pitch.
 
evank516
Posts: 2138
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:21 pm

TW870 wrote:
The original question that spawned this back and forth was why people are excited about the A220. I think the reason is that it is a total clean sheet design the solidifies the 100-130 seat category as a new and comfortable segment of the market between the E75 and 319/73G. Yes it is comfortable, but the attraction to the aircraft is because it may greatly improve the economics of service to thinner markets. It will both help mitigate rising fuel and labor costs while being a win for passengers. This minutia about seat size feels like a pointless conversation.


Also because it means some routes that are flown on RJs will see upgauges to mainline which means better reliability since DL is less likely to cancel a mainline flight over an RJ flight.
 
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fanoftristars
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:51 pm

Could be wrong but I think JAMBOJET actually works for AA... Will be interesting to see why he/she is so adamant that the A220 is not a great experience. I think we can safely say that the future of the domestic fleet for the big three airlines, AA, UA and DL will show that DL has the overall best product out there. They are adding TVs, not taking away. They are adding mainline, not taking away. They are adding 2KU to every plane, not keeping the ATG systems. While not perfect, DL's "remodel" of the Airbus 319 and 320 blows away what AA and UA are flying from a passenger perspective. Huge bins, TVs, 2KU wifi - I'd wager it's one of the best domestic planes in the fleet, even with the smaller lavs in the back. I maybe use the bathroom once on a 3hr flight - who cares if it's a little small? If it's just too awful, use the lav up front. DL FAs don't seem to mind at all. Back on topic, the A220 will be an excellent addition to DL's fleet and while it may have 2" less legroom in F class, 36-37" is plenty of room for these flights. Hands down beats AA and UA's future planes - Max 8 especially.

And as for 30" seats, as said above multiple times, there are maybe a hand full of seats at most with 30" pitch, the rest are 31" or higher, and DL leads with their comfort plus with free alcohol and premium snacks.
Last edited by fanoftristars on Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
jordanh
Posts: 325
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:52 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
Could be wrong but I think JAMBOJET actually works for AA... Will be interesting to see why he/she is so adamant that the A220 is not a great experience. I think we can safely say that the future of the domestic fleet for the big three airlines, AA, UA and DL will show that DL has the overall best product out there. They are adding TVs, not taking away. They are adding mainline, not taking away. While not perfect, DL's "remodel" of the Airbus 319 and 320 blows away what AA and UA are flying from a passenger perspective. Huge bins, TVs, 2KU wifi - I'd wager it's one of the best domestic planes in the fleet, even with the smaller lavs in the back. I maybe use the bathroom once on a 3hr flight - who cares if it's a little small? If it's just to awful, use the lav up front. DL FAs don't seem to mind at all. Back on topic, the A220 will be an excellent addition to DL's fleet and while it may have 2" less legroom in F class, 36-37" is plenty of room for these flights. Hands down beats AA and UA's future planes - Max 8 especially.
And as for 30" seats, as said above multiple times, there are maybe a hand full of seats at most with 30" pitch, the rest are 31" or higher, and DL leads with their comfort plus with free alcohol and premium snacks.


And it looks like he joined less than 24 hours ago... just to bash a competitor?
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:12 pm

jordanh wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
Could be wrong but I think JAMBOJET actually works for AA... Will be interesting to see why he/she is so adamant that the A220 is not a great experience. I think we can safely say that the future of the domestic fleet for the big three airlines, AA, UA and DL will show that DL has the overall best product out there. They are adding TVs, not taking away. They are adding mainline, not taking away. While not perfect, DL's "remodel" of the Airbus 319 and 320 blows away what AA and UA are flying from a passenger perspective. Huge bins, TVs, 2KU wifi - I'd wager it's one of the best domestic planes in the fleet, even with the smaller lavs in the back. I maybe use the bathroom once on a 3hr flight - who cares if it's a little small? If it's just to awful, use the lav up front. DL FAs don't seem to mind at all. Back on topic, the A220 will be an excellent addition to DL's fleet and while it may have 2" less legroom in F class, 36-37" is plenty of room for these flights. Hands down beats AA and UA's future planes - Max 8 especially.
And as for 30" seats, as said above multiple times, there are maybe a hand full of seats at most with 30" pitch, the rest are 31" or higher, and DL leads with their comfort plus with free alcohol and premium snacks.


And it looks like he joined less than 24 hours ago... just to bash a competitor?

Oh calm down :)
No. Just a long time reader and getting a bit sick of all the PR nonsense on 31” that gets pushed out as fact here when very public data is out there on these topics.
Anyway. Enjoy your day fellas.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:33 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
For example, the 739 has all of (IIRC) 4 seats in Y that are 30 in pitch, the rest are higher.
On the 321 I believe it will be down to 2 seats once the configs are standard (If they aren't already, too lazy to look)
etc. etc.

Which four seats? Were you down there with a tape measure?

DL is the tightest slimline 31" I've ever felt....
 
Prost
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:50 pm

I’m surprised you ever step on a DL plane MSPNWA.
 
baldwin8
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:37 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:28 pm

A co worker of mine, well experienced in flying for an airline, flew on the A220 in Europe for the first time and was amazed at the quiet take off and climb. He suffers from being sensitive on climbing and descent with his ears and found the flight extremely good for pressurization changes. And from what I've seen on videos, the windows are very large and offer great viewing(who doesn't like looking out the windows during flight?).
If you just want to argue seat pitch for customer comfort, that's black and white, but I see now there is more to comfort than seat pitch.
 
audidudi
Posts: 2357
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:13 am

Two more A220-300 deliveries last week. The ninth for Korean Air and the first for Air Tanzania:

Airbus A220-300 55037 HL8315 Korean Air delivery 20-22 December 2018 YMX-ANC-CTS-GMP ex C-FPAI

Airbus A220-300 55047 5H-TCH Air Tanzania delivery 21-23 December 2018 YMX-SMA-ACC-DAR ex C-FOWU
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3641
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:34 am

Themotionman wrote:
LGA-BOS suprises me somewhat. Surely this route is extremely frequency sensitive.

The others however don't surprise me- lots of mid-range routes going into AA/UA fortresses. I'm also surprised there's no action in LA.


There may be a few reasons, but pilot training could be one. If Bombardier is providing some training pilots, LGA-BOS will allow 4 cycles per day to help Delta builds its crew training schedule. LGA-Texas only allows for two landings.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8967
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:06 am

Absolutely asinine to say that "people aren't upset about 3/2 going away on the MD80/90."

Hello...nothing we can do about it. Do you think that people LIKE 3/3 more than 3/2? C'mon.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6038
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:23 am

I can guarantee BBD is not training DL pilots. Would. Not. Happen. They might have an entry—into-service pilot riding the jump seat, but not training.

GF
 
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tlecam
Posts: 1498
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:34 pm

Looks like the January dates could be at risk due to the government shutdown:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -l-454800/
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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Midwestindy
Topic Author
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Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:38 pm

tlecam wrote:
Looks like the January dates could be at risk due to the government shutdown:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -l-454800/


How did FAA not already do that? DL has had the A220 since October
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
USAirKid
Posts: 645
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:22 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Looks like the January dates could be at risk due to the government shutdown:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -l-454800/


How did FAA not already do that? DL has had the A220 since October


Its covered in the article:
The FAA's process of adding aircraft types to operating certificates involves a review of a carrier's ability to operate the type safety. Inspectors ensure pilots have completed approved training programmes and that airlines have adequate maintenance support, Goglia says. The FAA also ensures the aircraft carry all required safety equipment.

Though much paperwork is involved, the process culminates with a physical aircraft inspection by FAA officials, he says. They "open everything up and spot check" to ensure the aircraft meets the FAA's requirements.


AFAIK, They're allowed to own the planes and start to do hands on work with them, but they're not allowed to put passengers on them until the FAA has finished their work.
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 882
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:39 pm

Aren't the carry on luggage bins relatively large on the A220 compared to other aircraft? That would be a major upgrade in passenger ease of travel. Every flight I've been on lately overflows the overhead luggage bins. Super annoying to have to fight people for space.

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