stylo777
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Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:20 pm

It has been agreed today that Lufthansa subsidiary for regional feeder flying Lufthansa CityLine will receive a total of 6 A319's.
Earlier this month news came out that the whole Embraer fleet is going to be transferred to Air Dolomiti (9x E90 and 5x E95) and with the transfer of the A340's to mainline LH, this would have reduced the CityLine fleet to CRJ900 only.

Certainly some relief I guess for the crews and employees as their future was marked by uncertainty. A new cockpit collective agreement negotiated between the management and the pilot's union made this possible.

Kickoff for the A319 will be spring 2019 in MUC.

(source in German only: Aerotelegraph: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/lufthansa ... irbus-a319)
 
deltadudejg
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:52 am

My question is now that they're wrapping up the A340 operation within Cityline, what is the advantage of operating A319s under the Cityline group. It made sense when they still ran Dash 8s and CRJs as a regional carrier but to continue from here on out as an A319/CR9 carrier?
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LAX772LR
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:20 am

stylo777 wrote:
with the transfer of the A340's to mainline LH

Will they maintain the "Jump" high-density configuration, or are they going to be reconfigured to what the current fleet is at now?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Blerg
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:12 am

Was the dotted livery dropped from LH CityLine?
 
TWA1985
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:20 am

Wait, maybe I’m going to sound dumb here, but Lufthansa’s regional airline operates widebodies (the A340)?!
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mxaxai
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:40 am

TWA1985 wrote:
Wait, maybe I’m going to sound dumb here, but Lufthansa’s regional airline operates widebodies (the A340)?!

So did Swiss' until April 2018. Swiss "Global" Airlines - initially Swiss "European" - operated the ERJ-145, the Avro, the CSeries and the Boeing 777-300ER for Swiss.
Similar situation at Austrian: Tyrolean Airways used to be the regional feeder for them but de-facto took over Austrian's fleet entirely, then rebranded themselves as Austrian and eventually properly merged back into Austrian.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:36 am

TWA1985 wrote:
Wait, maybe I’m going to sound dumb here, but Lufthansa’s regional airline operates widebodies (the A340)?!


Not anymore, but they did in the past. It was used on some low-yielding destinations that wouldn't be profitable on expensive Lufthansa mainline but were profitable on cheaper Lufthansa CityLine. This has to do with wages, the staff at Lufthansa CityLine gets paid less than the staff at Lufthansa mainline.

However the A340 has now been returned to Lufthansa mainline.
 
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fraspotter
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:40 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
TWA1985 wrote:
Wait, maybe I’m going to sound dumb here, but Lufthansa’s regional airline operates widebodies (the A340)?!


Not anymore, but they did in the past. It was used on some low-yielding destinations that wouldn't be profitable on expensive Lufthansa mainline but were profitable on cheaper Lufthansa CityLine. This has to do with wages, the staff at Lufthansa CityLine gets paid less than the staff at Lufthansa mainline.

However the A340 has now been returned to Lufthansa mainline.


True. I believe they were operated to SJC, TPA, NBO among a few others? The Cityline A340s were distinguishable from the mainline A340s by being painted in the Star Alliance livery but without the Lufthansa titles on the forward fuselage.
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airevents
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:05 am

Cityline still operates these A340s as of now but they will be brought back onto LH´s AOC in the coming years.
 
LxBsl
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:58 am

Now that Lh Cityline only operates Crj‘s and A319‘s I am wondering with what aircraft type they will operate the flights to Lcy, as their whole fleet is not capable of doing so.
 
ushermittwoch
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:19 am

LxBsl wrote:
Now that Lh Cityline only operates Crj‘s and A319‘s I am wondering with what aircraft type they will operate the flights to Lcy, as their whole fleet is not capable of doing so.


My guess would be that the flights will be operated by Air Dolomiti.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:20 am

LxBsl wrote:
Now that Lh Cityline only operates Crj‘s and A319‘s I am wondering with what aircraft type they will operate the flights to Lcy, as their whole fleet is not capable of doing so.


Don't forget they also got a number of E-190s and E-195s. The E-jets are capable of London City flights.
 
axiom
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:44 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
LxBsl wrote:
Now that Lh Cityline only operates Crj‘s and A319‘s I am wondering with what aircraft type they will operate the flights to Lcy, as their whole fleet is not capable of doing so.


Don't forget they also got a number of E-190s and E-195s. The E-jets are capable of London City flights.


Did you read the OP? The E Jets are being transferred to Air Dolomiti.

Your characterisation of the CL A340 routes as "low yielding" is also inaccurate, at best. Premium configuration =\= high yield. The CL long haul strategy has been discussed at length in LH threads, but this idea about yield doesn't seem to die.
 
LH779
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:45 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
LxBsl wrote:
Now that Lh Cityline only operates Crj‘s and A319‘s I am wondering with what aircraft type they will operate the flights to Lcy, as their whole fleet is not capable of doing so.


Don't forget they also got a number of E-190s and E-195s. The E-jets are capable of London City flights.


All the remaining E-Jets will be transferred to Air Dolomiti.
 
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conaly
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:48 am

Not sure if this is really good for the Cityline employees. They do have lower wages than mainline but still higher than Eurowings. And of course it's all about money. After Eurowings took over all routings outside of FRA and MUC, Cityline is currently operating only feeders to the hubs and will reduce its fleet more and more. Some people still fear at some point Cityline will disappear completely like Contact Air, Augsburg Airways and some other former Regional-partners. There is a contracted 6,5% quota, which is the maximum capacity LH mainline can offer by using wet-leased planes. This is the little gap LH used to operate LH-flights with LH cabin crew but Cityline pilots (the said A340s). And I assume that they will do the same with the A319s, once the A340s are back.

Lufthansa tries to lower all wages within the collective agreement for years now, which includes mainline, older employees at Germanwings and Cargo. As the current agreement expires 2023, Lufthansa already stated, that they will send some widebodies again to Cityline, in case the company can't get a satisfying (lower) wage agreement with the unions.

That's actually one of the reasons I stopped my plans to enter LH's flight school, despite finally having saved enough money to pay for the training by myself without any loans or binding contracts. Too much risk of ending up at either Germanwings, where new pilots will no longer be payed by LH mainline agreement but only with lower wages based on the Eurowings agreements, or even worse directly at Eurowings/Eurowings Europe. No wonder LH expects a shortage on flight crews in the future and is even luring new recruits with a 20.000€ discount for the 80.0000€ MPL or 60.000€ ATPL-training...
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KLDC10
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:00 am

Blerg wrote:
Was the dotted livery dropped from LH CityLine?


Yes. Cityline aircraft will be repainted in the new Lufthansa livery, with small "Lufthansa Cityline" titles unter the windows, although I think the dotted livery was a relic from when some of the regional jets were operated by Eurowings:

See this photograph of D-ACNM, a former Eurowings aircraft, as an example, which was transferred from Eurowings to Lufthansa in 2017 and went straight from the dotted, Eurowings, scheme to the new, Lufthansa, scheme:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthan ... /5109393/L

And here's a photograph of D-ACKJ in the old Lufthansa scheme. This aircraft was never operated by Eurowings, so never wore the dotted scheme:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthan ... /5216075/L

(Sorry, not sure how to embed photographs from the A.Net database).
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DUSZRH
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:27 am

conaly wrote:
Not sure if this is really good for the Cityline employees. They do have lower wages than mainline but still higher than Eurowings. And of course it's all about money. After Eurowings took over all routings outside of FRA and MUC, Cityline is currently operating only feeders to the hubs and will reduce its fleet more and more. Some people still fear at some point Cityline will disappear completely like Contact Air, Augsburg Airways and some other former Regional-partners. There is a contracted 6,5% quota, which is the maximum capacity LH mainline can offer by using wet-leased planes. This is the little gap LH used to operate LH-flights with LH cabin crew but Cityline pilots (the said A340s). And I assume that they will do the same with the A319s, once the A340s are back.


The 6.5% quota is not applicable for Cityline anymore. With their new mainline agreement last year they locked in a minimum number of planes that have to be flown by mainline crew. Additionally, they allowed a fixed number of short haul planes to be operated by a subsidiary (read 4U or CL). LH however needed to define the terms with the crews in question, which has happened now.
 
Pottok
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:23 am

Do we knwow the cn of the A319 transferred to Lufthansa Cityline ?
 
stylo777
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:04 pm

Pottok wrote:
Do we knwow the cn of the A319 transferred to Lufthansa Cityline ?

Still too early to tell, but what does it really matter?!? They have plenty of them in their fleet.
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:48 pm

Image
 
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A321Lufthansa
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:07 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Pottok wrote:
Do we knwow the cn of the A319 transferred to Lufthansa Cityline ?

Still too early to tell, but what does it really matter?!? They have plenty of them in their fleet.

I guess the 6 that are pretty old-painted and still have bold texted regs:
D-AILB
D-AILD
D-AILH
D-AILK
D-AILL
D-AILW

Like this
Image

Instead of
Image
Last flown aircrafts: A320 OE-LBL < A320 OE-LBU < A319 OE-LDE < A320 OE-LBZ < A320 D-AIPL < A319 D-AIBA < E190 HB-JVL < A320 HB-IJR < A321 VP-BKQ < A321 VP-BAV < A320 HB-JLP < BCS3 HB-JCB < A319 D-AILF < A320 D-AIPM
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:20 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
with the transfer of the A340's to mainline LH

Will they maintain the "Jump" high-density configuration, or are they going to be reconfigured to what the current fleet is at now?


Eurowings is also a possibility. These planes are fully paid off. EW kept the CityLine configuration.
 
deltadudejg
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:03 pm

This site will have the info in good time

https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/home
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Blerg
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:27 pm

A321Lufthansa wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
Pottok wrote:
Do we knwow the cn of the A319 transferred to Lufthansa Cityline ?

Still too early to tell, but what does it really matter?!? They have plenty of them in their fleet.

I guess the 6 that are pretty old-painted and still have bold texted regs:
D-AILB
D-AILD
D-AILH
D-AILK
D-AILL
D-AILW

Like this
Image

Instead of
Image


I flew on D-AILB about two and a half months ago, the plane really seemed old inside, much worse than the newer aircraft.
 
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A321Lufthansa
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:13 pm

Blerg wrote:
A321Lufthansa wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
Still too early to tell, but what does it really matter?!? They have plenty of them in their fleet.

I guess the 6 that are pretty old-painted and still have bold texted regs:
D-AILB
D-AILD
D-AILH
D-AILK
D-AILL
D-AILW

Like this
Image

Instead of
Image


I flew on D-AILB about two and a half months ago, the plane really seemed old inside, much worse than the newer aircraft.


By LH it is just the matter of overhead bins and not seats I guess.
Last flown aircrafts: A320 OE-LBL < A320 OE-LBU < A319 OE-LDE < A320 OE-LBZ < A320 D-AIPL < A319 D-AIBA < E190 HB-JVL < A320 HB-IJR < A321 VP-BKQ < A321 VP-BAV < A320 HB-JLP < BCS3 HB-JCB < A319 D-AILF < A320 D-AIPM
 
MikeAlpha95
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:18 pm

Normally the a/c of LH are quit modern inside. They are doing a really good job, when it comes keeping the fleet up to date. To be honest, I really cant see any difference when flying with a NEO or a 30 years old 320. Quite unique in Europe.
 
beechnut
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:23 pm

fraspotter wrote:
I believe they were operated to SJC, TPA, NBO among a few others? The Cityline A340s were distinguishable from the mainline A340s by being painted in the Star Alliance livery but without the Lufthansa titles on the forward fuselage.


Also YUL-FRA. Flew them last month, YUL-FRA then FRA-AMS, same routing back. LH mainline on FRA-AMS and back, A320 out, A321 back.

Beech
 
axiom
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:43 pm

beechnut wrote:
fraspotter wrote:
I believe they were operated to SJC, TPA, NBO among a few others? The Cityline A340s were distinguishable from the mainline A340s by being painted in the Star Alliance livery but without the Lufthansa titles on the forward fuselage.


Also YUL-FRA. Flew them last month, YUL-FRA then FRA-AMS, same routing back. LH mainline on FRA-AMS and back, A320 out, A321 back.

Beech


And ATL and PHL, among others at points.
 
danipawa
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:38 pm

340 to leave fleet ? what about plans to fly to Caribbean on Cityline ?
 
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conaly
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:49 am

MikeAlpha95 wrote:
To be honest, I really cant see any difference when flying with a NEO or a 30 years old 320. Quite unique in Europe.


It's actually quite easy to spot the difference. The older A320s have different (smaller) overhead bins and different fairings on the sides and on the top:
Old style:


New style:
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CRJ900
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:23 am

Will LH Group consider densifying the A319s flying for CityLine? They currently have 138 seats and 144 is max with one pair of overwing exits, so they can either tighten the pitch in the forward part of the cabin and remove closets to add one row, or space-flex the aft galley and add one row where the aft toilets are now. Or is that too much work for too little gain?

What is CityLine's future? Their CRJ900s are flying eight short flights every day, racking up a lot of cycles per year. Are 90 seats just right for a lot of routes, and thus we will see a top-up order for more CRJ900 (or even CRJ1000) to replace worn out CRJ900s? Or are 145-seat A220-300 the future for CityLine?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
GianiDC
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:48 am

CRJ900 wrote:
Will LH Group consider densifying the A319s flying for CityLine? They currently have 138 seats and 144 is max with one pair of overwing exits, so they can either tighten the pitch in the forward part of the cabin and remove closets to add one row, or space-flex the aft galley and add one row where the aft toilets are now. Or is that too much work for too little gain?

What is CityLine's future? Their CRJ900s are flying eight short flights every day, racking up a lot of cycles per year. Are 90 seats just right for a lot of routes, and thus we will see a top-up order for more CRJ900 (or even CRJ1000) to replace worn out CRJ900s? Or are 145-seat A220-300 the future for CityLine?


According to the LH cost-saving program SCORE flying planes with < 100 seats is not ideal. However, they will distribute their E-Jets to LH partner airlines, which have roughly 100 seats. So given that CityLine will remain in its current role, they will likely get more A 319s from mainline as NEOs will start arriving there. If they ever order new jets, those need to have +120 seats I think. But I don´t think LH will invest any serious capital into CityLine.
 
Blerg
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:27 pm

Does CityLine operate some longer short-haul flights? I mostly see them flying flights that are not longer than 2 hours. Is it to have as many daily segments as possible?
 
airbuster
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Re: Lufthansa CityLine to fly the A319

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:41 am

So I’m curious as to where the CityLine A340 pilots will end up? Back on the crj/319? Or offered a different package?
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