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CLTRampRat
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What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:52 am

Perhaps a somewhat hypothetical question, word on the ramp is that once Phase 2 of the new Concourse A is complete Delta will take all of the gates which is said to be between 12 and 16.

I work on airplanes and am pretty familiar with how airlines work and run, but only just. What would Delta do with 12 gates at CLT? Focus city? Possible TATL flights (like they do at RDU or PIT)?

Just curious, cheers.
 
Detroit313
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:54 am

They won't do anything with CLT. Just fly to their hubs.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:58 am

ATL isn’t that far and RDU is a focus city. Not much more for CLT than upguages or shuttle service to the next focus city / mega hub in the making AUS!
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:15 am

CLTRampRat wrote:
Perhaps a somewhat hypothetical question, word on the ramp is that once Phase 2 of the new Concourse A is complete Delta will take all of the gates which is said to be between 12 and 16.


This is why "word on the ramp" is not a reliable source of info. I wouldn't expect DL (or UA) to fly anywhere but to hubs from a fortress hub like CLT.
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HPAEAA
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:31 am

Nothing, CLT is pretty small from an O&d perspective, the only reason to grab that many gates would be to sublease them out at super cheap rated to ULCCs to further cut AAs margins at the hub.... funny thing is from an o&d perspective it’s only 1/3 larger than CLE (about 12mm vs 9mm) - just can’t see that much room for growth..
1.4mm and counting...
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:33 am

HPAEAA wrote:
Nothing, CLT is pretty small from an O&d perspective, the only reason to grab that many gates would be to sublease them out at super cheap rated to ULCCs to further cut AAs margins at the hub.... funny thing is from an o&d perspective it’s only 1/3 larger than CLE (about 12mm vs 9mm) - just can’t see that much room for growth..



Thanks for an actual response. That is interesting and I didn’t know Airlines did that. Funny thing is Spirit is a name that keeps getting kicked around. Time will tell.
 
rbavfan
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:51 am

HPAEAA wrote:
Nothing, CLT is pretty small from an O&d perspective, the only reason to grab that many gates would be to sublease them out at super cheap rated to ULCCs to further cut AAs margins at the hub.... funny thing is from an o&d perspective it’s only 1/3 larger than CLE (about 12mm vs 9mm) - just can’t see that much room for growth..


Where did 12mm & 9mm come into this response and also after reading the response, HUH?
 
HPAEAA
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:54 am

CLTRampRat wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
Nothing, CLT is pretty small from an O&d perspective, the only reason to grab that many gates would be to sublease them out at super cheap rated to ULCCs to further cut AAs margins at the hub.... funny thing is from an o&d perspective it’s only 1/3 larger than CLE (about 12mm vs 9mm) - just can’t see that much room for growth..



Thanks for an actual response. That is interesting and I didn’t know Airlines did that. Funny thing is Spirit is a name that keeps getting kicked around. Time will tell.


Every airport is different, but their are various tiers of lease holders on the councils which direct which vendors are approved and on some capital projects, without knowledge of CLTs setups, it could be in their interest to become a signatory carrier for the concourse and sublet our to other carriers..
1.4mm and counting...
 
jplatts
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:04 am

DL could add nonstop service to its LAX and SEA hubs out of CLT since AA is currently the only airline to have nonstop service to the West Coast out of CLT. There are also additional connecting opportunities at LAX and SEA on DL and its codeshare partners to Asia, Australia, Alaska, Hawaii, Western Canada, and the Pacific Northwest.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:31 am

rbavfan wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
Nothing, CLT is pretty small from an O&d perspective, the only reason to grab that many gates would be to sublease them out at super cheap rated to ULCCs to further cut AAs margins at the hub.... funny thing is from an o&d perspective it’s only 1/3 larger than CLE (about 12mm vs 9mm) - just can’t see that much room for growth..


Where did 12mm & 9mm come into this response and also after reading the response, HUH?


CLT sees abou 12mm annual local passengers vs CLE which sees approx 9mm, for DL to grow from its current 5 gates setup (similar to CLE) to 12-14 gates as the original poster was asking there would have to be significant expansion planned, given the low local passenger count and the fact that CLT is a AA fortress hub this is highly unlikely and thus there could be another business incentive at play beyond a lot more delta flights.
1.4mm and counting...
 
CV880
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:03 am

DL has always played 2nd in CLT since the beginning of time, first to EA, then PI/US/AA

As previously stated, maybe LAX & SEA could be a possibility, with maybe a 2nd SLC late afternoon departure. As long as AA continues as is, it doesn't make sense to do otherwise except possibly BOS.
 
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N717TW
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:14 am

Some of the answer will depend on how BofA does it corporate travel. I've sat next to a number of Merrill Lynch folks out of NYC and BofA international banking folks from their BOS (former BankBoston/Fleet) office over the last year...a lot more than I used to or remember. It could just be people who are allowed to book travel on whatever airline they want as I am. Or it could be a sign that DL is targeting some BofA corporate travel. If they are targeting BofA, I would expect to see flights to BOS and LAX as those are large historical bases to BofA and DL hubs. Not sure SEA does much as Asia traffic can be routed over DTW and BofA isn't as big from a corporate operations perspective in Washington State as compared to California.

I really doubt you'd see anything to anyplace other than a DL hub.
Wouldn't be surprised to see a DL lounge through. Its an important enough financial center to justify a premium travel experience.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:50 am

No
DL will build a new linear terminal (similar to the one for Gatwick 2nd runway proposal) between runway 18c/36c and 18r/36l.They will also build a new runway west of runway 18r/36l and eventually DL will relocate 1/2 operation and most of the transatlantic flight from ATL to CLT.
 
flyguy84
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:03 am

I highly doubt Delta is going to take 12-16 gates. It’s just not going to happen.
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Cointrin330
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:07 pm

Why does DL need to develop CLT further? It's a fortress hub, practically owned by AA. It has a strong business base, but it is nowhere near as big as metro Atlanta but I guess that's not really the point. Yes, DL could add a nonstop to CLT from its western US bases, but beyond hub flying, why would they want more of CLT, which would just lead to heavy discounting on routes it competes with AA.
 
johns624
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:21 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
No
DL will build a new linear terminal (similar to the one for Gatwick 2nd runway proposal) between runway 18c/36c and 18r/36l.They will also build a new runway west of runway 18r/36l and eventually DL will relocate 1/2 operation and most of the transatlantic flight from ATL to CLT.

I want some of whatever you have.
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:37 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
No
DL will build a new linear terminal (similar to the one for Gatwick 2nd runway proposal) between runway 18c/36c and 18r/36l.They will also build a new runway west of runway 18r/36l and eventually DL will relocate 1/2 operation and most of the transatlantic flight from ATL to CLT.


Lay off the ‘shrooms sauce boss.
 
afcjets
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:38 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
They will also build a new runway west of runway 18r/36l and eventually DL will relocate 1/2 operation and most of the transatlantic flight from ATL to CLT.


CLT has two new runways planned, one between 18R/36L and 18C/36C and one east of 18L/36R.


CV880 wrote:
DL has always played 2nd in CLT since the beginning of time, first to EA, then PI/US/AA.


For over 10 years up until EA dehubbed CLT in 1986, DL was third behind EA and PI. EA was the biggest until soon after PI started building their CLT hub in 1980.


Cointrin330 wrote:
Why would DL develop CLT further?


Because they are building a Sky Club and will have more gates. Compared to AA and UA, DL does a lot of non hub flying.
 
CLTDAL
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:51 pm

I think with that many gates, it will become a focus city/ small crew base. People in Charlotte would benefit from another carrier other than AA. And many more travelers prefer Delta over AA. Also- SO MANY people from the Charlotte area go back and forth from the ATL area on a daily basis. With that many gates, a club and all of their hub flying and even non hub flying, a sizeable focus city is eminent. It would take some pressure off of ATL and allow them to grow in another southern market that isn't economically struggling, like MEM. Charlotte is growing rapidly....they must be aware and want a piece of the pie.
 
afcjets
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:18 pm

afcjets wrote:


CV880 wrote:
DL has always played 2nd in CLT since the beginning of time, first to EA, then PI/US/AA.


For over 10 years up until EA dehubbed CLT in 1986, DL was third behind EA and PI. EA was the biggest until soon after PI started building their CLT hub in 1980.


EDIT:

Even after EA dehubbed CLT in 1986, DL stayed in third place as EA still had a few more flights than DL, one more to ATL than DL, a MIA flight, and their moonlight flight to IAH. In the end though, DL and EA were tied with each having only six ATL flights.
 
tphuang
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:23 pm

Why do these questions always get asked? clt is the most dominated hub in the country. Why would delta want to loose money on a place like that?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:45 pm

CLTDAL wrote:
I think with that many gates, it will become a focus city/ small crew base. People in Charlotte would benefit from another carrier other than AA. And many more travelers prefer Delta over AA. Also- SO MANY people from the Charlotte area go back and forth from the ATL area on a daily basis. With that many gates, a club and all of their hub flying and even non hub flying, a sizeable focus city is eminent. It would take some pressure off of ATL and allow them to grow in another southern market that isn't economically struggling, like MEM. Charlotte is growing rapidly....they must be aware and want a piece of the pie.


C'mon now, think about what you are saying:

You really think American Airlines would let its biggest competitor, build a "sizeable focus city" in one of their fortress hubs? Do I understand that correctly?

Keep in mind that this is the same AA that when Volaris (an ultra low-cost carrier) announced CLT-GDL 2x weekly, they almost immediately responded by adding CLT-GDL daily. Imagine what they would do if DL even thought about adding any non-hub cities from CLT.

AA's point of sale strength in CLT is immense, and likely too much for DL to overcome anyway. Plus, DL doesn't even fly SEA/LAX/BOS-CLT yet, which shows their interest in the market

BTW, "It would take some pressure off of ATL," DL is fine the size of ATL, they don't want to "take pressure off" their most profitable hub.
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Clipper2Heavy
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:01 pm

Midwestindy wrote:

C'mon now, think about what you are saying:

You really think American Airlines would let its biggest competitor, build a "sizeable focus city" in one of their fortress hubs? Do I understand that correctly?

Keep in mind that this is the same AA that when Volaris (an ultra low-cost carrier) announced CLT-GDL 2x weekly, they almost immediately responded by adding CLT-GDL daily. Imagine what they would do if DL even thought about adding any non-hub cities from CLT.

AA's point of sale strength in CLT is immense, and likely too much for DL to overcome anyway. Plus, DL doesn't even fly SEA/LAX/BOS-CLT yet, which shows their interest in the market

BTW, "It would take some pressure off of ATL," DL is fine the size of ATL, they don't want to "take pressure off" their most profitable hub.


Exactly this...spot on.

Outside of connecting some of their western hubs...I can't see delta having many plans at all for CLT. Certainly not taking 12 to 16 gates or transitioning anything away from ATL. AA 'owns' CLT...no other carrier is going to do anything sizable from that market.

A skyclub....maybe (a very big maybe) as I do tend to agree if DL has corporate contracts they might want to spend the money on upgrading the travel experience for their O&D passengers at CLT...but that is a big stretch.
 
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chepos
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:22 pm

Word on the ramp, that sure is a reliable source. Almost as reliable as the flight attendant rumor mill.
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toltommy
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:28 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
I highly doubt Delta is going to take 12-16 gates. It’s just not going to happen.


Perhaps the OP means gates A12 through A16? That's more likely. The only thing I could see happening is incremental additions to their current service. But that only happens if it doesn't harm existing yields. A SkyClub would be a good addition, depending on how many local members already exist.
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panamair
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:32 pm

N717TW wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised to see a DL lounge through. Its an important enough financial center to justify a premium travel experience.


It does appear that DL has been going after the financial services crowd though with the increases they have put through in the NYC-CLT market. I didn’t realize that LGA-CLT is now up to 8x a day (on various 76 seaters) which puts it on par with LGA-RDU..while JFK-CLT is now at 4x a day with two of those being on mainline 717s compared to 5x daily on JFK-RDU (all on 76 seaters) -so JFK-CLT capacity is only 8 seats short of JFK-RDU on a daily basis...
 
Runway28L
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:51 pm

I hate to be “that guy”, but we already had a thread on this topic a little over a month ago.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1401805&p=20652079&hilit=Delta+CLT#p20652079
 
willenglish
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:01 pm

It seems like this question is asked weekly on here.

Although they have lots of gates, it won’t turn into much due to the close proximity of its fortress at ATL. MAYBE a SEA flight is possible but I doubt it. If any TATL would happen I could see AMS though since it’s unserved by AA and the DL JV with AF/KL.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:30 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
CLTDAL wrote:
I think with that many gates, it will become a focus city/ small crew base. People in Charlotte would benefit from another carrier other than AA. And many more travelers prefer Delta over AA. Also- SO MANY people from the Charlotte area go back and forth from the ATL area on a daily basis. With that many gates, a club and all of their hub flying and even non hub flying, a sizeable focus city is eminent. It would take some pressure off of ATL and allow them to grow in another southern market that isn't economically struggling, like MEM. Charlotte is growing rapidly....they must be aware and want a piece of the pie.


C'mon now, think about what you are saying:

You really think American Airlines would let its biggest competitor, build a "sizeable focus city" in one of their fortress hubs? Do I understand that correctly?

Keep in mind that this is the same AA that when Volaris (an ultra low-cost carrier) announced CLT-GDL 2x weekly, they almost immediately responded by adding CLT-GDL daily. Imagine what they would do if DL even thought about adding any non-hub cities from CLT.

AA's point of sale strength in CLT is immense, and likely too much for DL to overcome anyway. Plus, DL doesn't even fly SEA/LAX/BOS-CLT yet, which shows their interest in the market

BTW, "It would take some pressure off of ATL," DL is fine the size of ATL, they don't want to "take pressure off" their most profitable hub.


I never think AA/DL/CLT operator will do so but i think OP want the answer like this when reading the first line
 
JetBlueCLT
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:43 pm

I’m reading posts that CLT needs DL and they should add a myriad of routes? Are you kidding me? DL serves CLT well from all the hubs. The only airline CLT needs, is AA. The more competition that stays away from Charlotte the better we’ll be.

I could definitely see DL take the whole phase 2 leg once it’s competed. Which will be about 7 gates. There’s no way they keep the 6 gates on The old Acon and get 7 more on the new “leg”. You got to be kidding me on that.

I could see maybe 1 of these routes happen..... SEA, LAX or BOS. Even one of those is pushing it tbh.

Speak for yourself, “that many Charlotte travelers prefer delta”. I know a myriad of people back home, delta would never cross their mind.

How many times are we going to see this question?
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MIflyer12
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:36 pm

afcjets wrote:
afcjets wrote:


CV880 wrote:
DL has always played 2nd in CLT since the beginning of time, first to EA, then PI/US/AA.


For over 10 years up until EA dehubbed CLT in 1986, DL was third behind EA and PI. EA was the biggest until soon after PI started building their CLT hub in 1980.


EDIT:

Even after EA dehubbed CLT in 1986, DL stayed in third place as EA still had a few more flights than DL, one more to ATL than DL, a MIA flight, and their moonlight flight to IAH. In the end though, DL and EA were tied with each having only six ATL flights.


Market share of 30 years ago is in no way relevant today. Hubs are a lot more concentrated than they used to be. A better question would be, 'How many seats did Delta+NW have on a daily basis 30 years ago, and has the count even grown as fast as the metro (MSA) population?' DFW didn't have 900 AA flights in 1986, nor CLT 700 AA flights.
Last edited by MIflyer12 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:36 pm

duplicate
 
tphuang
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:17 pm

panamair wrote:
N717TW wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised to see a DL lounge through. Its an important enough financial center to justify a premium travel experience.


It does appear that DL has been going after the financial services crowd though with the increases they have put through in the NYC-CLT market. I didn’t realize that LGA-CLT is now up to 8x a day (on various 76 seaters) which puts it on par with LGA-RDU..while JFK-CLT is now at 4x a day with two of those being on mainline 717s compared to 5x daily on JFK-RDU (all on 76 seaters) -so JFK-CLT capacity is only 8 seats short of JFK-RDU on a daily basis...


It's pretty mind boggling how much money DL looses on those 2 routes.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:26 pm

JetBlueCLT wrote:
I’m reading posts that CLT needs DL and they should add a myriad of routes? Are you kidding me? DL serves CLT well from all the hubs. The only airline CLT needs, is AA. The more competition that stays away from Charlotte the better we’ll be.

I could definitely see DL take the whole phase 2 leg once it’s competed. Which will be about 7 gates. There’s no way they keep the 6 gates on The old Acon and get 7 more on the new “leg”. You got to be kidding me on that.

I could see maybe 1 of these routes happen..... SEA, LAX or BOS. Even one of those is pushing it tbh.

Speak for yourself, “that many Charlotte travelers prefer delta”. I know a myriad of people back home, delta would never cross their mind.

How many times are we going to see this question?

The only airline CLT needs is AA? Do you realize how crazy that sounds?
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
routeplanner
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:52 pm

Is there a solid source stating that DL will be taking on this many gates at CLT, or is it just heresay? I would think Charlotte-Douglas would have some clauses in new gate leases that prohibit gate squatting and subletting.
 
stlgph
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:23 pm

tphuang wrote:
panamair wrote:
N717TW wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised to see a DL lounge through. Its an important enough financial center to justify a premium travel experience.


It does appear that DL has been going after the financial services crowd though with the increases they have put through in the NYC-CLT market. I didn’t realize that LGA-CLT is now up to 8x a day (on various 76 seaters) which puts it on par with LGA-RDU..while JFK-CLT is now at 4x a day with two of those being on mainline 717s compared to 5x daily on JFK-RDU (all on 76 seaters) -so JFK-CLT capacity is only 8 seats short of JFK-RDU on a daily basis...


It's pretty mind boggling how much money DL looses on those 2 routes.


Please enlighten us with an exact figure.
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WPvsMW
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:52 am

routeplanner wrote:
Is there a solid source stating that DL will be taking on this many gates at CLT, or is it just heresay? I would think Charlotte-Douglas would have some clauses in new gate leases that prohibit gate squatting and subletting.


Airport operators cannot prohibit "gate squatting and subletting". See 49 USC § 47106(f). Parsing more closely, gate squatting is not illegal unless an incumbent or new entrant wants to expand its gate access, and requests access to the squatted gate (whether leased or subleased) and there are no other available gates. The airport operator must then resolve the issue.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:35 am

N717TW wrote:
Some of the answer will depend on how BofA does it corporate travel. I've sat next to a number of Merrill Lynch folks out of NYC and BofA international banking folks from their BOS (former BankBoston/Fleet) office over the last year...a lot more than I used to or remember. It could just be people who are allowed to book travel on whatever airline they want as I am. Or it could be a sign that DL is targeting some BofA corporate travel. If they are targeting BofA, I would expect to see flights to BOS and LAX as those are large historical bases to BofA and DL hubs. Not sure SEA does much as Asia traffic can be routed over DTW and BofA isn't as big from a corporate operations perspective in Washington State as compared to California.

I really doubt you'd see anything to anyplace other than a DL hub.
Wouldn't be surprised to see a DL lounge through. Its an important enough financial center to justify a premium travel experience.


For the majority, BofA expects employees to find the lowest cost option. Like most major companies.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:37 am

N717TW wrote:
Some of the answer will depend on how BofA does it corporate travel. I've sat next to a number of Merrill Lynch folks out of NYC and BofA international banking folks from their BOS (former BankBoston/Fleet) office over the last year...a lot more than I used to or remember. It could just be people who are allowed to book travel on whatever airline they want as I am. Or it could be a sign that DL is targeting some BofA corporate travel. If they are targeting BofA, I would expect to see flights to BOS and LAX as those are large historical bases to BofA and DL hubs. Not sure SEA does much as Asia traffic can be routed over DTW and BofA isn't as big from a corporate operations perspective in Washington State as compared to California.

I really doubt you'd see anything to anyplace other than a DL hub.
Wouldn't be surprised to see a DL lounge through. Its an important enough financial center to justify a premium travel experience.


For the majority, BofA expects employees to find lowest fares.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:50 am

TWFlyGuy wrote:
N717TW wrote:
Some of the answer will depend on how BofA does it corporate travel. I've sat next to a number of Merrill Lynch folks out of NYC and BofA international banking folks from their BOS (former BankBoston/Fleet) office over the last year...a lot more than I used to or remember. It could just be people who are allowed to book travel on whatever airline they want as I am. Or it could be a sign that DL is targeting some BofA corporate travel. If they are targeting BofA, I would expect to see flights to BOS and LAX as those are large historical bases to BofA and DL hubs. Not sure SEA does much as Asia traffic can be routed over DTW and BofA isn't as big from a corporate operations perspective in Washington State as compared to California.

I really doubt you'd see anything to anyplace other than a DL hub.
Wouldn't be surprised to see a DL lounge through. Its an important enough financial center to justify a premium travel experience.


For the majority, BofA expects employees to find lowest fares.


Some companies have preferred carriers based on the city pair & corporate contracts, I worked for one that would ask you choose the preferred carrier on the route and then on price. Coincidentally the preferred carriers often had fares lower than the published fares via kayak which made it pretty easy.
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TWFlyGuy
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:00 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
N717TW wrote:
Some of the answer will depend on how BofA does it corporate travel. I've sat next to a number of Merrill Lynch folks out of NYC and BofA international banking folks from their BOS (former BankBoston/Fleet) office over the last year...a lot more than I used to or remember. It could just be people who are allowed to book travel on whatever airline they want as I am. Or it could be a sign that DL is targeting some BofA corporate travel. If they are targeting BofA, I would expect to see flights to BOS and LAX as those are large historical bases to BofA and DL hubs. Not sure SEA does much as Asia traffic can be routed over DTW and BofA isn't as big from a corporate operations perspective in Washington State as compared to California.

I really doubt you'd see anything to anyplace other than a DL hub.
Wouldn't be surprised to see a DL lounge through. Its an important enough financial center to justify a premium travel experience.


For the majority, BofA expects employees to find lowest fares.


Some companies have preferred carriers based on the city pair & corporate contracts, I worked for one that would ask you choose the preferred carrier on the route and then on price. Coincidentally the preferred carriers often had fares lower than the published fares via kayak which made it pretty easy.


BofA is more rigorous about hotel and meal spending. For flights, yes they don't want you on the most expensive flight if you don't need to be but carrier isn't as big of a selection factor. People in CLT generally end up on AA for obvious reasons but lots will take WN to BWI for Wilmington trips or DL to ATL/NYC. Price is a bigger factor, not carrier. A lot of the leadership team is based in Boston so DL is a big carrier for BofA.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:48 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

C'mon now, think about what you are saying:

You really think American Airlines would let its biggest competitor, build a "sizeable focus city" in one of their fortress hubs? Do I understand that correctly?

Keep in mind that this is the same AA that when Volaris (an ultra low-cost carrier) announced CLT-GDL 2x weekly, they almost immediately responded by adding CLT-GDL daily. Imagine what they would do if DL even thought about adding any non-hub cities from CLT.

AA's point of sale strength in CLT is immense, and likely too much for DL to overcome anyway. Plus, DL doesn't even fly SEA/LAX/BOS-CLT yet, which shows their interest in the market

BTW, "It would take some pressure off of ATL," DL is fine the size of ATL, they don't want to "take pressure off" their most profitable hub.


Exactly this...spot on.

Outside of connecting some of their western hubs...I can't see delta having many plans at all for CLT. Certainly not taking 12 to 16 gates or transitioning anything away from ATL. AA 'owns' CLT...no other carrier is going to do anything sizable from that market.

A skyclub....maybe (a very big maybe) as I do tend to agree if DL has corporate contracts they might want to spend the money on upgrading the travel experience for their O&D passengers at CLT...but that is a big stretch.


Even if DL adds LAX/SEA service, I would only expect 1, MAYBE 2 flights, a day. The market isn't that big and it would likely be relying heavily on connections through those hubs. Most of the local traffic is likely more aligned with AA. The additional gates CLT is adding on A are intriguing. The market would not suggest it could sustain a hub given how other 2-3 million person cities have fared post-mergers. It's very profitable for AA mostly due to low costs and a favorable revenue sharing program. If those gates open up opportunities for Spirit or more F9 service, is that helping the airport long term? Granted the expansion into basic economy products has helped carriers match the ULCCs but I see limited opportunity here. The only thing DL would have going for them is given AA's fleet transition constraints, they would be hard pressed to retaliate with additional ATL/MSP/DTW/NYC flights. Maybe they could pull some M80's out of the desert?
 
USAirALB
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:58 pm

There has never been anything that has said DL will take all of the gates in Phase II. I suspect that some gates in Phase II will ultimately be utilized by some airlines currently using Phase I as the current new concourse is already quite crowded at times.


Also, it has not been confirmed if they are bringing a SkyClub to CLT. There would be no point in building one now in the current concourse they are in if they are going to be vacating it within the next few years.


As for expansion, the only thing reallistically possible would be perhaps a token flight to BOS and maybe a flight to SEA.
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evank516
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:58 pm

They'll stick to flights to their hubs, maybe some mainline upgauges to NYC though?
 
Boof02671
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:10 pm

AA is getting at least seven gates when A remodel is done.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:33 pm

tphuang wrote:
Why do these questions always get asked? clt is the most dominated hub in the country. Why would delta want to loose money on a place like that?

Exactly. Why would DL add a bunch of flights to one of the most overserved airports in the country that is of no real strategic value to them. DL will continue to offer CLT as a destination to their customers from their hubs and (some strategically important) focus cities. That's it.
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Av8rDAL
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:43 pm

JetBlueCLT wrote:
I’m reading posts that CLT needs DL and they should add a myriad of routes? Are you kidding me? DL serves CLT well from all the hubs. The only airline CLT needs, is AA. The more competition that stays away from Charlotte the better we’ll be.



Careful what you wish for unless you want sky-high fares charged by the dominating carrier to the major markets, domestic and transatlantic. See: ATL.

My suspicion would be that DL would jump on the leases to keep its competitor's growth in check, and eventually sublease them to the highest bidder. CLT does siphon off a fair amount of traffic from ATL as a connecting point to AA's network. They do this with attractive fares which appeal to corporate travelers like me who usually must provide justification for spending ~30-50% more to book an out-of-policy non-stop.
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Gsasala
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:52 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
Nothing, CLT is pretty small from an O&d perspective, the only reason to grab that many gates would be to sublease them out at super cheap rated to ULCCs to further cut AAs margins at the hub.... funny thing is from an o&d perspective it’s only 1/3 larger than CLE (about 12mm vs 9mm) - just can’t see that much room for growth..

Just curious where did you find this information? I'm not surprised that a city as small as Charlotte would only have about 12 m passengers who are actually starting or ending in Charlotte. I'm just interested in statistics
 
HPAEAA
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:36 pm

Gsasala wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
Nothing, CLT is pretty small from an O&d perspective, the only reason to grab that many gates would be to sublease them out at super cheap rated to ULCCs to further cut AAs margins at the hub.... funny thing is from an o&d perspective it’s only 1/3 larger than CLE (about 12mm vs 9mm) - just can’t see that much room for growth..

Just curious where did you find this information? I'm not surprised that a city as small as Charlotte would only have about 12 m passengers who are actually starting or ending in Charlotte. I'm just interested in statistics


Honestly I don't have a golden source sadly, for CLT, I had to look through a few articles to find various quotes to figure out the O&D break down. I gave them the benefit of the doubt & used the higher percentage (27% Local), using the 2017 total of 45.9 million total passengers I worked out the total number. Honestly that number may be a lot lower though, a few of the news outlets say that the number is closer to 20% which would put them down at about 9 million passengers annually.

CLE was much easier, without a hub almost all of their passengers in 2017 were O&D, according to CLE's website, it was 96% in 2017.

Articles I found:
1. Forbes quoted 25k local vs 100k connecting each day (about 20%) in July 2018. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... ac93f74648
2. Charolette Business Journal: Quoted 27% based on 2016 data. https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/n ... -2016.html
3. Charolette Observer: Quotes 20% pretty consistently over the years. https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/ ... 15919.html
4. CLE Airport: http://www.clevelandairport.com/clevela ... r-activity
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LovePrunesAnet
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Re: What is Deltas plan for CLT?

Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:30 am

um why must DL have a "plan" for Charlotte? AA certainly does. the others "plan" is likely not to get slaughtered, and that's as much of a plan as they have. It's not like Delta is going to build up some big presence at AA's 2nd largest hub

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