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klm617
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Re: WW ending STL

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:17 am

N983AN wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Let's see.

Press person: "Hi Wow Air, how are you feeling about passenger response in City XXX?"

Option A: "We are pleased with the performance and look forward to building the route and our brand."

Option B: "It sucks balls and we're out of here"

Option C: "No comment" (a.k.a. "it sucks balls and we're out of here")

Please, please, **PLEASE** people ... tell me you're not surprised by the repetitive Answer A.


Generally in this business hearing “your city will remain an important part of our network” is code for looking at the transfer list.

AA hung around STL far too long in the lost decade of Arpey with mounting losses. Even TWA with its low costs and feed into STL couldn’t profitably operate transatlantic (at the time of the asset purchase TW had axed most of their STL-Europe market with just LGW and seasonal CDG left)

If STL to Europe was meant to be it would have happened already.


Can we get past this notion of if it was viable somebody would have operated by now that is just nonsense. What European network are you talking about from STL. TW only operated STL-LGW on a constant basis they tried STL-FRA but that lasted one year and like you said STL-CDG seasonably so there was never more than that operated. The only other transatlantic flight was BR to LGW and that was always combined with either ATL or DFW.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
flyguy89
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Re: WW ending STL

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:35 am

stlgph wrote:
Let's see.

Press person: "Hi Wow Air, how are you feeling about passenger response in City XXX?"

Option A: "We are pleased with the performance and look forward to building the route and our brand."

Option B: "It sucks balls and we're out of here"

Option C: "No comment" (a.k.a. "it sucks balls and we're out of here")

Please, please, **PLEASE** people ... tell me you're not surprised by the repetitive Answer A.

If that was the only indication? Sure, I'd agree. But those statements were paired with announced frequency increases, ostensibly because the flights were performing well. Obviously WOW's expansion was not successful, or they wouldn't be trimming their network accordingly, but their movements have certainly been curious.
 
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enilria
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:53 am

stl07 wrote:
WW KEF-STL JAN 0.4>0.1[0] FEB 0.4>0[0] MAR 0.4>0[0]

For those of you who don't read the STL or OAG thread, WW is canceling STL service, at least for now.
You can still book flights for these dates, but the prices are super high, which is what usually happens when a flight is being canceled.

Why was this thread renamed WOW ending CVG and CLE? What is the source that CLE and CVG aren’t coming back? That tweet from I don’t know who that is doesn’t say they aren’t coming back this Summer and WOW hasn’t said CLE/CVG aren’t coming back. Personally I don’t expect CLE to be back but that’s not official.

If the thread name change was meaning all are suspended for Winter then the thread is a dupe because there’s another thread about CLE and CVG suspended for Winter.
 
jerseyewr777
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:03 am

enilria wrote:
stl07 wrote:
WW KEF-STL JAN 0.4>0.1[0] FEB 0.4>0[0] MAR 0.4>0[0]

For those of you who don't read the STL or OAG thread, WW is canceling STL service, at least for now.
You can still book flights for these dates, but the prices are super high, which is what usually happens when a flight is being canceled.

Why was this thread renamed WOW ending CVG and CLE? What is the source that CLE and CVG aren’t coming back? That tweet from I don’t know who that is doesn’t say they aren’t coming back this Summer and WOW hasn’t said CLE/CVG aren’t coming back. Personally I don’t expect CLE to be back but that’s not official.

If the thread name change was meaning all are suspended for Winter then the thread is a dupe because there’s another thread about CLE and CVG suspended for Winter.


Here's confirmation.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 659892002/

I wonder also if JFK will be cut. The second daily EWR flight has been changed from a A321 to a A330.
 
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enilria
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:26 am

jerseyewr777 wrote:
enilria wrote:
stl07 wrote:
WW KEF-STL JAN 0.4>0.1[0] FEB 0.4>0[0] MAR 0.4>0[0]

For those of you who don't read the STL or OAG thread, WW is canceling STL service, at least for now.
You can still book flights for these dates, but the prices are super high, which is what usually happens when a flight is being canceled.

Why was this thread renamed WOW ending CVG and CLE? What is the source that CLE and CVG aren’t coming back? That tweet from I don’t know who that is doesn’t say they aren’t coming back this Summer and WOW hasn’t said CLE/CVG aren’t coming back. Personally I don’t expect CLE to be back but that’s not official.

If the thread name change was meaning all are suspended for Winter then the thread is a dupe because there’s another thread about CLE and CVG suspended for Winter.


Here's confirmation.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 659892002/

I wonder also if JFK will be cut. The second daily EWR flight has been changed from a A321 to a A330.

There’s no quote from WOW about those, but it does say WOW told them that. Odd there’s no quote for something that is such a big deal.

From a broader perspective it would appear their whole fleet plan is now a question mark because if they really don’t bring back any of this they will be defaulting on a lot of planes. It’s not like there are better places for these planes.
 
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boscmh
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:48 am

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/bo ... er-october

"WOW Air is disappointed to confirm the cancellation of service to St. Louis Lambert International Airport, and services to Cleveland Hopkins International Airport and Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport will not resume in summer 2019," the airline wrote in a statement.

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/index. ... cleve.html

According to a statement from the airline: "Unfortunately, these routes did not perform as we hoped this summer with load factors not achieving the targets that were set for the route in the beginning, and compared to other markets in our network."
 
stlgph
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Re: WW ending STL

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:53 am

flyguy89 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Let's see.

Press person: "Hi Wow Air, how are you feeling about passenger response in City XXX?"

Option A: "We are pleased with the performance and look forward to building the route and our brand."

Option B: "It sucks balls and we're out of here"

Option C: "No comment" (a.k.a. "it sucks balls and we're out of here")

Please, please, **PLEASE** people ... tell me you're not surprised by the repetitive Answer A.

If that was the only indication? Sure, I'd agree. But those statements were paired with announced frequency increases, ostensibly because the flights were performing well. Obviously WOW's expansion was not successful, or they wouldn't be trimming their network accordingly, but their movements have certainly been curious.



It's not hard to figure out. Business as usual to mask any suspicion anything is wrong for passengers and more important, work force.

If you have 1,000 employees working for you, and you're in a country where the population is 350,000, be a little hard to immediately fill the positions in the event of a mass, sudden exodous because you told a reporter "hey, things are going well except we totally expect to change our name to Air Lehman Brothers next week"

.....c'mon
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3321
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Re: WW ending STL

Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:13 am

stlgph wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Let's see.

Press person: "Hi Wow Air, how are you feeling about passenger response in City XXX?"

Option A: "We are pleased with the performance and look forward to building the route and our brand."

Option B: "It sucks balls and we're out of here"

Option C: "No comment" (a.k.a. "it sucks balls and we're out of here")

Please, please, **PLEASE** people ... tell me you're not surprised by the repetitive Answer A.

If that was the only indication? Sure, I'd agree. But those statements were paired with announced frequency increases, ostensibly because the flights were performing well. Obviously WOW's expansion was not successful, or they wouldn't be trimming their network accordingly, but their movements have certainly been curious.



It's not hard to figure out. Business as usual to mask any suspicion anything is wrong for passengers and more important, work force.

If you have 1,000 employees working for you, and you're in a country where the population is 350,000, be a little hard to immediately fill the positions in the event of a mass, sudden exodous because you told a reporter "hey, things are going well except we totally expect to change our name to Air Lehman Brothers next week"

.....c'mon

I understand that...but like I said, they also increased frequency/added capacity on some of these routes, which is not something generally done in underperforming markets.
 
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stl07
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Re: WW ending STL

Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:21 am

flyguy89 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
If that was the only indication? Sure, I'd agree. But those statements were paired with announced frequency increases, ostensibly because the flights were performing well. Obviously WOW's expansion was not successful, or they wouldn't be trimming their network accordingly, but their movements have certainly been curious.



It's not hard to figure out. Business as usual to mask any suspicion anything is wrong for passengers and more important, work force.

If you have 1,000 employees working for you, and you're in a country where the population is 350,000, be a little hard to immediately fill the positions in the event of a mass, sudden exodous because you told a reporter "hey, things are going well except we totally expect to change our name to Air Lehman Brothers next week"

.....c'mon

I understand that...but like I said, they also increased frequency/added capacity on some of these routes, which is not something generally done in underperforming markets.

Which means they are lying to cover something else up... check out the link in the STL thread
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
flyguy89
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Re: WW ending STL

Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:28 am

stl07 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
stlgph wrote:


It's not hard to figure out. Business as usual to mask any suspicion anything is wrong for passengers and more important, work force.

If you have 1,000 employees working for you, and you're in a country where the population is 350,000, be a little hard to immediately fill the positions in the event of a mass, sudden exodous because you told a reporter "hey, things are going well except we totally expect to change our name to Air Lehman Brothers next week"

.....c'mon

I understand that...but like I said, they also increased frequency/added capacity on some of these routes, which is not something generally done in underperforming markets.

Which means they are lying to cover something else up... check out the link in the STL thread

I don't think it's necessarily a conspiracy, or anything like that. It's possible there's more to the story, but I think it more likely just demonstrates that they make poor business decisions.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:47 am

I'm shocked that service to Iceland from secondary cities on a two-bit airline didn't print money. Really, you could knock me over with a feather.
 
hjulicher
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:32 am

Since it's the white elephant in the room:

Why was DTW was spared the axe? I don't believe DTW or the WCAA offered any incentives for WOW to fly to DTW as they never really do. Could this bode that the shorter flight time combined with (implied) higher yields means that the service for WOW is worthwhile, even given all their debt ratio? I wonder if DL will act on their weakness now and try to eliminate them out of the market?

Does the 4x weekly slot that DTW has combine with a 3x weekly slot from another city, or could we expect WOW to round out the schedule to be daily? DTW this year has had tremendous growth in international travelers.

@KLM617: please do not hijack this thread or derail it. PLEASE
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stlgph
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:42 am

At this rate, Delta doesn't have to do anything other than simply show up and get people from Point A to Point B.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:38 am

So WOW is shedding routes at quite a pace. No word yet on getting rid of airplanes? The route cuts so far would indicate a lot of idle airplanes in a short while.
 
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klm617
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:39 am

hjulicher wrote:
Since it's the white elephant in the room:

Why was DTW was spared the axe? I don't believe DTW or the WCAA offered any incentives for WOW to fly to DTW as they never really do. Could this bode that the shorter flight time combined with (implied) higher yields means that the service for WOW is worthwhile, even given all their debt ratio? I wonder if DL will act on their weakness now and try to eliminate them out of the market?

Does the 4x weekly slot that DTW has combine with a 3x weekly slot from another city, or could we expect WOW to round out the schedule to be daily? DTW this year has had tremendous growth in international travelers.

@KLM617: please do not hijack this thread or derail it. PLEASE



As of right now it is loaded at 4 weekly through October 2019.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
pmanni1
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:51 am

WW is a disaster and will be just the latest LCC to go under in the next year or two. They ranked last of 72 airlines in cust service https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/22/wow-air ... pains.html which is an amazing feat. The writing is on the wall for JFK, DFW and PIT as their schedules are closed off for spring. It does not bode well for them if their competitors all have their spring/summer schedules open and have a big head start on selling tickets.
 
Yossarian22
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:20 pm

hjulicher wrote:
Since it's the white elephant in the room:

Why was DTW was spared the axe? I don't believe DTW or the WCAA offered any incentives for WOW to fly to DTW as they never really do. Could this bode that the shorter flight time combined with (implied) higher yields means that the service for WOW is worthwhile, even given all their debt ratio? I wonder if DL will act on their weakness now and try to eliminate them out of the market?

Does the 4x weekly slot that DTW has combine with a 3x weekly slot from another city, or could we expect WOW to round out the schedule to be daily? DTW this year has had tremendous growth in international travelers.

@KLM617: please do not hijack this thread or derail it. PLEASE


I don’t really see a need for Delta to eliminate less than 200 seats, sub daily, to Europe. Different markets. Wow is at ORD and I don’t see UA working especially hard to drive them out.
 
GSM605
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:00 pm

Remember the old adage “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn’t”? By all accounts, the aircraft out of all of these cities seemed to be fairly full. At a price of $200-300 r/t why wouldn’t they be? Here in Cincinnati, there was a huge buzz about it from the moment it was announced. Cheap, nonstop to Iceland and one stop to many major cities in a Europe from there. They promoted the idea of spending a few days enjoying Iceland and going on to Europe from there, if you desired. At those fares, of course there was interest. Even with departure times after 1am local.

But...see the above adage. On this route at those frequencies, WW wasn’t going to ever make money. I’m not sure what the game plan was there but it should have been obvious from the start. And no, FI is not going to swoop into places like CVG or STL or PIT to fill the void. At least not at WW’s fares and without the low cost of admission, Iceland suddenly becomes much less interesting, despite that everyone I know who’s been there raves about its beauty. It’s simply a matter of economics. It always is.
 
kavok
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:59 pm

hjulicher wrote:
Since it's the white elephant in the room:

Why was DTW was spared the axe? I don't believe DTW or the WCAA offered any incentives for WOW to fly to DTW as they never really do. Could this bode that the shorter flight time combined with (implied) higher yields means that the service for WOW is worthwhile, even given all their debt ratio? I wonder if DL will act on their weakness now and try to eliminate them out of the market?

Does the 4x weekly slot that DTW has combine with a 3x weekly slot from another city, or could we expect WOW to round out the schedule to be daily? DTW this year has had tremendous growth in international travelers.

@KLM617: please do not hijack this thread or derail it. PLEASE


I can’t see DL acting for the simple reason that WW may eliminate itself before too long anyway. Why would DL waste valuable frames on a DTW-KEF route with no onward connections, just to eliminate competition that could end on its own? There is a good chance WW won’t be around in another year or two. My guess is that DL will be smart, just sit back, and watch to see if WW survives.
 
EBiafore99
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:08 pm

hjulicher wrote:
Since it's the white elephant in the room:

Why was DTW was spared the axe? I don't believe DTW or the WCAA offered any incentives for WOW to fly to DTW as they never really do. Could this bode that the shorter flight time combined with (implied) higher yields means that the service for WOW is worthwhile, even given all their debt ratio? I wonder if DL will act on their weakness now and try to eliminate them out of the market?

Does the 4x weekly slot that DTW has combine with a 3x weekly slot from another city, or could we expect WOW to round out the schedule to be daily? DTW this year has had tremendous growth in international travelers.

@KLM617: please do not hijack this thread or derail it. PLEASE


Local news here has been DTW-KEF will remain at 4x per week; however, the flight time was switched from a 12:30 am departure to a 5:30 pm departure. Also, it has been reported the DTW-KEF is to be timed to connect with Wow's new service to India.

Also, on the incentive thing, I hope DTW did not offer an incentive. I read about these incentives cities offer for airline service and frankly, it seems the incentives are given to satisfy some politician's ego for their city so the city can say "we have a nonstop flight to..." The airline business is so competitive that if there is a market for a route, an airline is going to pick it up without an incentive. Also, incentives can have unintended consequences. I believe it was Pittsburgh where DL cancelled it's Paris service after other airlines got incentives to start services.
 
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klm617
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:48 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
hjulicher wrote:
Since it's the white elephant in the room:

Why was DTW was spared the axe? I don't believe DTW or the WCAA offered any incentives for WOW to fly to DTW as they never really do. Could this bode that the shorter flight time combined with (implied) higher yields means that the service for WOW is worthwhile, even given all their debt ratio? I wonder if DL will act on their weakness now and try to eliminate them out of the market?

Does the 4x weekly slot that DTW has combine with a 3x weekly slot from another city, or could we expect WOW to round out the schedule to be daily? DTW this year has had tremendous growth in international travelers.

@KLM617: please do not hijack this thread or derail it. PLEASE


Local news here has been DTW-KEF will remain at 4x per week; however, the flight time was switched from a 12:30 am departure to a 5:30 pm departure. Also, it has been reported the DTW-KEF is to be timed to connect with Wow's new service to India.

Also, on the incentive thing, I hope DTW did not offer an incentive. I read about these incentives cities offer for airline service and frankly, it seems the incentives are given to satisfy some politician's ego for their city so the city can say "we have a nonstop flight to..." The airline business is so competitive that if there is a market for a route, an airline is going to pick it up without an incentive. Also, incentives can have unintended consequences. I believe it was Pittsburgh where DL cancelled it's Paris service after other airlines got incentives to start services.


There are many markets with potential that are not being operated for one reason or another. Incentives are good if used correctly to benefit the traveling public in any given market but sadly as you say they are used on one end to bolster one's ego and on the other end as a money grab. When the incentive runs out then so does the service. The incentives should be used to help get a new route of the ground that might be marginal at first but as we know once a route starts the demand increases. MSP-KEF is a good example of the at first it was summer only on FI and now it has worked it's way up to year round with almost three flights in the summer. Yes Detroit gave out incentives not sure exactly how much WOW got but they got some support in starting DTW-KEF as any other airline would when opening up a new link at DTW
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:50 pm

kavok wrote:
hjulicher wrote:
Since it's the white elephant in the room:

Why was DTW was spared the axe? I don't believe DTW or the WCAA offered any incentives for WOW to fly to DTW as they never really do. Could this bode that the shorter flight time combined with (implied) higher yields means that the service for WOW is worthwhile, even given all their debt ratio? I wonder if DL will act on their weakness now and try to eliminate them out of the market?

Does the 4x weekly slot that DTW has combine with a 3x weekly slot from another city, or could we expect WOW to round out the schedule to be daily? DTW this year has had tremendous growth in international travelers.

@KLM617: please do not hijack this thread or derail it. PLEASE


I can’t see DL acting for the simple reason that WW may eliminate itself before too long anyway. Why would DL waste valuable frames on a DTW-KEF route with no onward connections, just to eliminate competition that could end on its own? There is a good chance WW won’t be around in another year or two. My guess is that DL will be smart, just sit back, and watch to see if WW survives.


Not to mention that the passengers WOW Air attracts aren't even going to fly Delta any way.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:59 pm

GSM605 wrote:
Remember the old adage “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn’t”? By all accounts, the aircraft out of all of these cities seemed to be fairly full. At a price of $200-300 r/t why wouldn’t they be? Here in Cincinnati, there was a huge buzz about it from the moment it was announced. Cheap, nonstop to Iceland and one stop to many major cities in a Europe from there. They promoted the idea of spending a few days enjoying Iceland and going on to Europe from there, if you desired. At those fares, of course there was interest. Even with departure times after 1am local.

But...see the above adage. On this route at those frequencies, WW wasn’t going to ever make money. I’m not sure what the game plan was there but it should have been obvious from the start. And no, FI is not going to swoop into places like CVG or STL or PIT to fill the void. At least not at WW’s fares and without the low cost of admission, Iceland suddenly becomes much less interesting, despite that everyone I know who’s been there raves about its beauty. It’s simply a matter of economics. It always is.


Sample of one, but when I flew CVG-KEF in June (Yes, it's peak season...), the flight was full both direction. And yes, not necessarily happy customers with the flight being delayed (It was the week when one of their plane went tech IIRC), but hey, can't beat USD450 (with luggages and everything) to Paris and back during peak season when my alternative is to fly on DL, who's charging 1000+ USD.

Between WW's own financial issue (Am I surprised that they can't make money at those fare? I'm not), increasing fuel cost, overexpansion, etc., I'm not too surprised they pull back a little bit. IMHO, though, the whole India experiment will be the nail in the coffin.
 
cvgComair
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:17 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
GSM605 wrote:
Remember the old adage “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn’t”? By all accounts, the aircraft out of all of these cities seemed to be fairly full. At a price of $200-300 r/t why wouldn’t they be? Here in Cincinnati, there was a huge buzz about it from the moment it was announced. Cheap, nonstop to Iceland and one stop to many major cities in a Europe from there. They promoted the idea of spending a few days enjoying Iceland and going on to Europe from there, if you desired. At those fares, of course there was interest. Even with departure times after 1am local.

But...see the above adage. On this route at those frequencies, WW wasn’t going to ever make money. I’m not sure what the game plan was there but it should have been obvious from the start. And no, FI is not going to swoop into places like CVG or STL or PIT to fill the void. At least not at WW’s fares and without the low cost of admission, Iceland suddenly becomes much less interesting, despite that everyone I know who’s been there raves about its beauty. It’s simply a matter of economics. It always is.


Sample of one, but when I flew CVG-KEF in June (Yes, it's peak season...), the flight was full both direction. And yes, not necessarily happy customers with the flight being delayed (It was the week when one of their plane went tech IIRC), but hey, can't beat USD450 (with luggages and everything) to Paris and back during peak season when my alternative is to fly on DL, who's charging 1000+ USD.

Between WW's own financial issue (Am I surprised that they can't make money at those fare? I'm not), increasing fuel cost, overexpansion, etc., I'm not too surprised they pull back a little bit. IMHO, though, the whole India experiment will be the nail in the coffin.

Sounds like the "poor performance" statement is just their cover-up for financial issues. CVG was reporting WW with 99% LFs in the summer. If that "doesn't meet expectations" WW is doing something wrong, not STL/CVG/CLE/JFK/DTW/etc.
 
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hvusslax
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:10 pm

WOW CEO Skúli Mogensen was interviewed by Icelandic media today and said that they are expanding the route network by 15% in the next year. Much of that will be increased frequencies to existing destinations but he also teased that a new North American destination was in the works and might be announced next week.
 
GSM605
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:04 pm

Anybody know what incentives, if any, Wow got from CVG?
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:01 pm

hvusslax wrote:
WOW CEO Skúli Mogensen was interviewed by Icelandic media today and said that they are expanding the route network by 15% in the next year. Much of that will be increased frequencies to existing destinations but he also teased that a new North American destination was in the works and might be announced next week.


I have to think LAS would be an excellent fit for them. Unlike STL/CVG/CLE it is a place that Europeans want to go, and it could be operated seasonally in conjunction with SFO (use that A330 to San Francisco during the warmer months, and then send it to Las Vegas when SF isn't nearly as attractive of a destination). PHX could be another interesting opportunity for them.
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stl07
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:53 pm

hjulicher wrote:
Since it's the white elephant in the room:

Why was DTW was spared the axe? I don't believe DTW or the WCAA offered any incentives for WOW to fly to DTW as they never really do. Could this bode that the shorter flight time combined with (implied) higher yields means that the service for WOW is worthwhile, even given all their debt ratio? I wonder if DL will act on their weakness now and try to eliminate them out of the market?

Does the 4x weekly slot that DTW has combine with a 3x weekly slot from another city, or could we expect WOW to round out the schedule to be daily? DTW this year has had tremendous growth in international travelers.

@KLM617: please do not hijack this thread or derail it. PLEASE

They don't overnight at DTW so they don't have to have the route perform as well
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Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
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stl07
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:57 pm

boscmh wrote:
https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/boone-county/hebron-community/wow-air-will-halt-operations-out-of-cvg-after-october

"WOW Air is disappointed to confirm the cancellation of service to St. Louis Lambert International Airport, and services to Cleveland Hopkins International Airport and Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport will not resume in summer 2019," the airline wrote in a statement.

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/index. ... cleve.html

According to a statement from the airline: "Unfortunately, these routes did not perform as we hoped this summer with load factors not achieving the targets that were set for the route in the beginning, and compared to other markets in our network."

That's a load of crap

Between May 17th and September 30th nearly 28,000 people hopped on board. News 4 obtained an email sent to local leaders from WOW airlines on September 5th.

A WOW official said, "I just wanted to let you know that we are planning a big thank you to the people of St. Louis next Monday. WOW Air is really happy with the St. Louis route this summer."

Just more than a month later, the airline announced it was leaving, and released a totally different narrative.

"It's entirely them. Their model does not work," Boyd said. "It doesn't work in Cleveland, it doesn't work in Cincinnati."
https://www.kmov.com/news/wow-air-pulli ... a06ef.html
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Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
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klm617
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:27 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
hvusslax wrote:
WOW CEO Skúli Mogensen was interviewed by Icelandic media today and said that they are expanding the route network by 15% in the next year. Much of that will be increased frequencies to existing destinations but he also teased that a new North American destination was in the works and might be announced next week.


I have to think LAS would be an excellent fit for them. Unlike STL/CVG/CLE it is a place that Europeans want to go, and it could be operated seasonally in conjunction with SFO (use that A330 to San Francisco during the warmer months, and then send it to Las Vegas when SF isn't nearly as attractive of a destination). PHX could be another interesting opportunity for them.



That would require an A330 and I believe they are all spoken for in the summer of 2019. Also most of the major cities in Europe already have low fare nonstop service to Las Vegas so there might not be a market there for them to capture. I would say anything they add would be something where they could turn the aircraft the same day rather than overnighting an aircraft for 20 hours. My thoughts would be ATL, CMH or YHZ all can be done with the A321 with same day turns.
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Lapplander800
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:51 am

klm617 wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
hvusslax wrote:
WOW CEO Skúli Mogensen was interviewed by Icelandic media today and said that they are expanding the route network by 15% in the next year. Much of that will be increased frequencies to existing destinations but he also teased that a new North American destination was in the works and might be announced next week.


I have to think LAS would be an excellent fit for them. Unlike STL/CVG/CLE it is a place that Europeans want to go, and it could be operated seasonally in conjunction with SFO (use that A330 to San Francisco during the warmer months, and then send it to Las Vegas when SF isn't nearly as attractive of a destination). PHX could be another interesting opportunity for them.



That would require an A330 and I believe they are all spoken for in the summer of 2019. Also most of the major cities in Europe already have low fare nonstop service to Las Vegas so there might not be a market there for them to capture. I would say anything they add would be something where they could turn the aircraft the same day rather than overnighting an aircraft for 20 hours. My thoughts would be ATL, CMH or YHZ all can be done with the A321 with same day turns.


Depends on if their lenders want them to take delivery of the - now delayed - four frames of A330-900NEO. Regardless they haven't shown any fear in changing their plans until now. I just really hope they have a solid plan to find a way to stay around for the long term and find a way to fill planes WITH a positive yield. The O&D market needs it
 
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:00 am

Delete
 
thegreatRDU
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:12 am

It seems it's more of WOW Air's operating issues/costs that were these routes downfall. For example FI can afford to have their payed off 757s sit at MCI for 14+ hours and then have them return and coincide nicely with a connecting bank with minimal layover times.

With all this talk about WOW Air leaving DFW I wonder if AA will pull the flight too or re-orient it to PHL?

Hopefully we can get FI to take a chance on us at RDU, seasonally it could work if the 7M8 has the legs for it.
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airberlin2017
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:21 am

The booked Pax on CVG/CLE/STL/DFW from today ...

10/18/18 KEF-STL 123/208
10/18/18 STL-KEF 153/208

10/18/18 KEF-CLE 147/208
10/18/18 CLE-KEF 167/208

+

10/19/18 KEF-DFW 237/345
10/20/18 DFW-KEF 237/345

10/19/18 KEF-CVG 184/208
10/20/19 CVG-KEF 141/208

10/20/18 KEF-STL 162/208
10/20/18 STL-KEF 121/208

10/20/18 KEF-CLE 149/208
10/21/18 CLE-KEF 54/208

10/21/18 KEF-CVG 181/208
10/22/18 CVG-KEF 75/208

10/21/18 KEF-CLE 182/208
10/22/18 CLE-KEF 45/208

10/22/18 KEF-DFW 246/345
10/23/18 DFW-KEF 130/345
 
mfe777
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:02 am

airberlin2017 wrote:
The booked Pax on CVG/CLE/STL/DFW from today ...

10/18/18 KEF-STL 123/208
10/18/18 STL-KEF 153/208

10/18/18 KEF-CLE 147/208
10/18/18 CLE-KEF 167/208

+

10/19/18 KEF-DFW 237/345
10/20/18 DFW-KEF 237/345

10/19/18 KEF-CVG 184/208
10/20/19 CVG-KEF 141/208

10/20/18 KEF-STL 162/208
10/20/18 STL-KEF 121/208

10/20/18 KEF-CLE 149/208
10/21/18 CLE-KEF 54/208

10/21/18 KEF-CVG 181/208
10/22/18 CVG-KEF 75/208

10/21/18 KEF-CLE 182/208
10/22/18 CLE-KEF 45/208

10/22/18 KEF-DFW 246/345
10/23/18 DFW-KEF 130/345


Next week is the last week of the scheduled DFW seasonal service, with the last flight departing Oct 25. Not surprised that the loads are trailing off on the last few flights. In the DFW foreign carrier report thread, the WOW Air DFW flight has enjoyed over 90% load factors on the A330 in the months they've been operating. We'll see if the yields are enough to continue to grow the market.
 
Jshank83
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:10 am

airberlin2017 wrote:
The booked Pax on CVG/CLE/STL/DFW from today ...

10/18/18 KEF-STL 123/208
10/18/18 STL-KEF 153/208

10/18/18 KEF-CLE 147/208
10/18/18 CLE-KEF 167/208

+

10/19/18 KEF-DFW 237/345
10/20/18 DFW-KEF 237/345

10/19/18 KEF-CVG 184/208
10/20/19 CVG-KEF 141/208

10/20/18 KEF-STL 162/208
10/20/18 STL-KEF 121/208

10/20/18 KEF-CLE 149/208
10/21/18 CLE-KEF 54/208

10/21/18 KEF-CVG 181/208
10/22/18 CVG-KEF 75/208

10/21/18 KEF-CLE 182/208
10/22/18 CLE-KEF 45/208

10/22/18 KEF-DFW 246/345
10/23/18 DFW-KEF 130/345


where do you get these numbers?
 
Jshank83
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Re: WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:31 pm

Found this interesting. Seems like speculated they will focus on bigger cities with more frequency to help enhance their India demand. A lot more questions than I copied and pasted but I wanted to put a few down.

Is this a sign of a bigger shakeup to WOW’s U.S. footprint?

What we really are doing, is it’s also part of our India launch. We are seeing great demand from North America to India, but primarily from our bigger existing destinations. So we will add capacity and frequency as a result of this to some of the existing destinations.

Mutzabaugh: That means flying more days a week on routes that you fly less than daily, or maybe offering more than one flight a day on some routes. Is that right? And, does that capacity growth include any new destinations here?

Mogensen: Correct.
We are going to announce one new major destination in North America next week. I can’t specify beyond that.

Mutzabaugh: For the Midwest cities being dropped, is it safe to call that an "experiment" to fly to smaller destinations there? Maybe one that didn’t go as well as you hoped it could?

Mogensen: I think that’s a fair assessment.
The fact that we made this decision today doesn’t mean that we will not revisit some of these destinations going forward. As our network continues to grow, we get more feeder points from Europe. Our feed continues to grow.

Mutzabaugh: So you are saying it’s possible they made money, but you thought you could do better somewhere else?

Mogensen: Correct.

Mutzabaugh: Is it possible that the three Midwestern routes would have stayed if fuel prices had remained relatively unchanged?

Mogensen: It’s possible, sure.

Mutzabaugh: Reading between the lines on that last statement, it sounds like one of the things that may be working against St. Louis, Cincinnati and Cleveland is that I would guess there is an outsized demand for India travel that’s probably coming more from places like New York, Montreal, Toronto and Boston than the mid-size markets in the U.S. Midwest.

Mogensen: That’s certainly one important component in this sort of decision process.

Mutzabaugh: Some of the airport officials in those three Midwest cities said they were surprised to learn WOW was leaving. Should they have been surprised?

Mogensen: One of the important elements for us – and other airlines – flying across the Atlantic is the seasonality. (Demand for U.S.-Europe travel typically peaks in the summer but softens in the winter). The other factor that’s important here is that while we might be able to fly during the summer months, it’s also very important for us to find and build up the destinations that have the year-round capabilities and to support those cities. Especially now that we add something like India to the mix, which is to some extent counter-cyclical to Europe.

There are a number of issues to be considered when you are scaling up. Of course, I would have loved to have continued to have served those markets. I do believe they are underserved. I do believe there are opportunities there going forward. But for us, at this moment, I think this is unfortunately the right decision.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 684201002/

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