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InnsbruckFlyer
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Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:31 pm

With most of their A320s being over 20 years old, does United have any plan to start phasing them out? Will they get some more A320s, maybe even NEOs?

Greets,

InnsbruckFlyer
Last flown aircraft: DH8D OE-LGN < DH8D OE-LGI < E195 OE-LWE < DH8D OE-LGI < A320 D-AIUR < A320 D-AIZM < B738 PH-HZJ < B737 PH-XRD < B772 N766AN < B738 N855NN < B788 N45905 < A319 N808UA < A320 N482UA < B752 N19117
 
United1
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:52 pm

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
With most of their A320s being over 20 years old, does United have any plan to start phasing them out? Will they get some more A320s, maybe even NEOs?

Greets,

InnsbruckFlyer


No current plans to retire the A320 or A319 fleet. In fact they invested in life extension packages that should take them out to 2025 at least. They have added a couple exCZ A320s and a number of exCZ A319s over the past two years. UA will be adding additional A319s from CZ and U2 over the next 3 years.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:12 pm

The life extension program and the sourcing of used aircraft are a stop-gap measure for UA as they decide what to do about that fleet. Given the Max fleet is targeted at the upper end of the narrow body capacity category, this could call for a 320 NEO type order, a 220-100 or 300 order or more maxes which are smaller models.
 
727200
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:25 pm

UA is holding off until the 797 is launched and they will be the head of the line. While they like the 320 series, there are no plans to order more of them, and the used ones are basically 'fill orders' until the new MOM is on property. .
 
739er
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:34 pm

Only Scott Kirby knows...And, he’s busy playing contract/scope games with his pilots right now because, well, he’s a “one trick pony”. Whether HP, US, AA, and now at UA, Kirby’s strategy is and always has been getting the most/biggest/heaviest RJs at Express carriers that he can squeeze out of ALPA/USAPA/APA....And then, and only then, will he determine the mainline fleet plan. In case your wondering, UAs RJ scope mirrors that of DL’s. However, DL was smart enough to order 100 seat mainline aircraft and unlock the full value of that scope agreement. As you might guess, I do in fact have a horse in this race.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:40 pm

Good replies above, especially from United1.

So beyond 2025 becomes the question. I suspect another order for 737Max will herald the beginning of the older Airbus replacement (maybe some of the older 737NGs, too). The price of fuel will be key, too.

UA leadership maintains that they can't afford to pay mainline pilots to fly the A220s or E190s, so I don't see much chance of an order there. While DL can fly them, UA seems committed to their analysis which skews against smaller mainline jets. Which in turn brings the Scope issue into play again, doesn't it? Perhaps the next UAL ALPA contract will contain some Scope language that will permit more larger RJs in exchange for a guarantee of more mainline narrow body aircraft.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
739er
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:01 pm

“Perhaps the next UAL ALPA contract will contain some Scope language that will permit more larger RJs in exchange for a guarantee of more narrow body aircraft”...

You’re talking about a group that endured some of the deepest furloughs in ALPA history (2172 + 1450) all while more and bigger RJs comprised most of UA’s miserable domestic service throughout the early 2000s. UA and DLs scope agreements are fair and workable,..as is. Kirby’s RJ model is broken, outdated, and unacceptable to UAs customers and employees alike. Ironically, the solution to the problem is right in front of his eyes....In Atlanta.
Last edited by 739er on Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
United1
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:03 pm

727200 wrote:
UA is holding off until the 797 is launched and they will be the head of the line. While they like the 320 series, there are no plans to order more of them, and the used ones are basically 'fill orders' until the new MOM is on property. .


Not exactly following why you think the A320/319s are tied to the MoM aircraft order?

MoM is too large to replace any of UAs Airbus fleet and assuming UA ordered MoM it's sized to replace the 757/767 fleet.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
RalXWB
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:27 pm

We all know which team United´s management is on so any Airbus order in the foreseeable future would be quite surprising...
 
United1
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:23 pm

RalXWB wrote:
We all know which team United´s management is on so any Airbus order in the foreseeable future would be quite surprising...


Yup...UAs management team is on United team and no one elses. There really aren't a lot of upper management left from pmCO or pmUA most were hired post merger.

United is going to do what is best for United and if that means Boeing, Airbus, Embraer or Bombardier aircraft they will order them.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:25 pm

UA is getting the 359 so they could take a narrow body order if the price were right. The MoM is a struggle to get to the offer stage for Boeing right now and incremental improvements to the NEOs make the business case on the low end of the market harder.

Kirby may want to squeeze more on scope but I don't see the pilots budging. The retirement curve is increasing which will increase pilot leverage. I disagree that UA "can't afford" to fly the 220 or E195 at the mainline. The regionals are struggling as it is and even they are having to sweeten the pot for new hires plus the majors are having to consider if not move to an "academy type" model to ensure new pilots before too long.

The RJs had their day but the trend doesn't favor their continued deployment unless the pilot shortage is addressed.
 
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UAL747422
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:29 pm

727200 wrote:
UA is holding off until the 797 is launched and they will be the head of the line. While they like the 320 series, there are no plans to order more of them, and the used ones are basically 'fill orders' until the new MOM is on property. .


I think you mixed up the markets... The 797 is aimed at 757/767 replacement. A new MAX or NEO is what would replace United's A320's
Why do they call it rush hour when nothing moves?
 
727200
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:40 pm

I think you guys better go back and check again. The MOM has been proposed in 2 versions; one a NB and the other a WB. Why do you think SW is also trying to be the launch customer?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:47 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
The life extension program and the sourcing of used aircraft are a stop-gap measure for UA as they decide what to do about that fleet. Given the Max fleet is targeted at the upper end of the narrow body capacity category, this could call for a 320 NEO type order, a 220-100 or 300 order or more maxes which are smaller models.


I'm not so sure. I half expect UA to upgauge the way Delta has done, and UA replace A320s with 739s and MAX9s. Want more seats out of ops-constrained airports like EWR and SFO? Upgauge. Delta upgauged chasing lower costs per seat in markets that could support the capacity (or reduced frequency).
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:50 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
SonomaFlyer wrote:
The life extension program and the sourcing of used aircraft are a stop-gap measure for UA as they decide what to do about that fleet. Given the Max fleet is targeted at the upper end of the narrow body capacity category, this could call for a 320 NEO type order, a 220-100 or 300 order or more maxes which are smaller models.


I'm not so sure. I half expect UA to upgauge the way Delta has done, and UA replace A320s with 739s and MAX9s. Want more seats out of ops-constrained airports like EWR and SFO? Upgauge. Delta upgauged chasing lower costs per seat in markets that could support the capacity (or reduced frequency).


That was half of DL's strategy. The other half was ordering the C Series (now 220) to capture the lower end of the market, which bumped 76 seat RJs down to 50 seat markets and start to eliminate 50 seaters.

UA can certainly use their larger NBs at places like EWR and SFO. They can use the smaller NBs in IAH and DEN for example as well as point to point markets which are smaller.
 
United1
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:50 pm

727200 wrote:
I think you guys better go back and check again. The MOM has been proposed in 2 versions; one a NB and the other a WB. Why do you think SW is also trying to be the launch customer?


Obviously we don't know what the final configuration will be but the expected seat counts are 225 and 275 between the initial two models.. As UAs 320 only seat 150 that may be a touch on the larger size to replace them. Could Boeing develop a smaller MoM as a 737 replacement absolutely (in fact I think they will) but I would not expect to see that in service before 2030. I don't think the initial batch of the Airbii will make it quite that long.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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UAL747422
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:26 pm

727200 wrote:
I think you guys better go back and check again. The MOM has been proposed in 2 versions; one a NB and the other a WB. Why do you think SW is also trying to be the launch customer?


Southwest killed the 757 remember.

One of the reasons they didn't want the 757 was because of the responsibilities of taking on a new type. Why would they do that now when there are 737's with almost equal capability?
Why do they call it rush hour when nothing moves?
 
FlyHossD
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:00 pm

739er wrote:
“Perhaps the next UAL ALPA contract will contain some Scope language that will permit more larger RJs in exchange for a guarantee of more narrow body aircraft”...

You’re talking about a group that endured some of the deepest furloughs in ALPA history (2172 + 1450) all while more and bigger RJs comprised most of UA’s miserable domestic service throughout the early 2000s. UA and DLs scope agreements are fair and workable,..as is. Kirby’s RJ model is broken, outdated, and unacceptable to UAs customers and employees alike. Ironically, the solution to the problem is right in front of his eyes....In Atlanta.


It seems you missed the point of my comment.

One, I'm well aware of sUA's history of pilot furloughs and what that means to the current pilot group as nearly all of the furloughees are at UA today.

Put yourself in Kirby's shoes for a moment. The current contract allows for more large RJs IF a new small narrow body type (A220, E190) is introduced, doesn't it? Now substitute new ADDITIONAL 737s for those new narrow body aircraft types. Kirby could have an easy sell as the 737s will pay more than the A220s/E190s, won't they? So, I suspect that will be Kirby's strategy - combine that with a guarantee of fleet size at mainline along with a block hours minimum AND that higher 737 pay rate (vs the A220/E190) and then go around ALPA to the pilot group with that plan.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
739er
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:36 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
739er wrote:
“Perhaps the next UAL ALPA contract will contain some Scope language that will permit more larger RJs in exchange for a guarantee of more narrow body aircraft”...

You’re talking about a group that endured some of the deepest furloughs in ALPA history (2172 + 1450) all while more and bigger RJs comprised most of UA’s miserable domestic service throughout the early 2000s. UA and DLs scope agreements are fair and workable,..as is. Kirby’s RJ model is broken, outdated, and unacceptable to UAs customers and employees alike. Ironically, the solution to the problem is right in front of his eyes....In Atlanta.


It seems you missed the point of my comment.

One, I'm well aware of sUA's history of pilot furloughs and what that means to the current pilot group as nearly all of the furloughees are at UA today.

Put yourself in Kirby's shoes for a moment. The current contract allows for more large RJs IF a new small narrow body type (A220, E190) is introduced, doesn't it? Now substitute new ADDITIONAL 737s for those new narrow body aircraft types. Kirby could have an easy sell as the 737s will pay more than the A220s/E190s, won't they? So, I suspect that will be Kirby's strategy - combine that with a guarantee of fleet size at mainline along with a block hours minimum AND that higher 737 pay rate (vs the A220/E190) and then go around ALPA to the pilot group with that plan.


Yep,...That is exactly Kirby’s plan. So, even though UA already has a huge order for 737Max aircraft (161 hulls) and is taking on used A319 aircraft, he must convince his pilots that 737s and A319s should allow their caving on scope to allow UAX to operate 325 E175s. Maybe a promise of Max-7s or a new ratio of mainline to Express block hours might convince some of those fools. And yes, higher rates on a 737 vs NSNB rates will satisfy the $ grabbers. Still, no matter how you spin it, it would be a concession and a gift to Scott Kirby. Another plan of Kirby’s was answered in his response to an analyst’s question about UAs plan during the next economic downturn. Immediately retire older narrow body aircraft. Let’s see that’s 40 737-700s, about 100 of sub UAs oldest A320/319s. So in essence any new order for 737s or Aibuses could be seen as their replacement. And the 325 E175s (about half of UAs domestic operation) that would be on the property? Well, maybe ALPA can work out another jets for jobs deal and the next furloughees can get jobs at Mesa and Skywest again...Yay!!!
Last edited by 739er on Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
727200
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:48 pm

And if past history is an indication, the members will shoot scope down just as they have before. Lots if talk about solidarity and what they are going to do, but money talks and watch how fast it caves.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:57 pm

UA will fly the wings off of them.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:58 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
SonomaFlyer wrote:
The life extension program and the sourcing of used aircraft are a stop-gap measure for UA as they decide what to do about that fleet. Given the Max fleet is targeted at the upper end of the narrow body capacity category, this could call for a 320 NEO type order, a 220-100 or 300 order or more maxes which are smaller models.


I'm not so sure. I half expect UA to upgauge the way Delta has done, and UA replace A320s with 739s and MAX9s. Want more seats out of ops-constrained airports like EWR and SFO? Upgauge. Delta upgauged chasing lower costs per seat in markets that could support the capacity (or reduced frequency).


That was half of DL's strategy. The other half was ordering the C Series (now 220) to capture the lower end of the market, which bumped 76 seat RJs down to 50 seat markets and start to eliminate 50 seaters.

UA can certainly use their larger NBs at places like EWR and SFO. They can use the smaller NBs in IAH and DEN for example as well as point to point markets which are smaller.


Either way, it's a story of upgauging - 321s for MD-88s, and A220s for CR9s. United is unlikely to replace 150-seat 320s with 109-seat A220s. Might UA buy a 'new, small narrowbody' to be able to have more 2-class RJs plus open new mainline markets? Sure.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:17 pm

I would guess the 737-8 will replace the 319/320. There may be an order for a few 737-7 for airports where their performance is needed. But it seems UA wants to simplify their mainline fleet.

Their future fleet may look something like this:

737NG/Max
797
787
777
359 (I'm personally suspicious of this order. Very little talk of it at UA compared to their excitement with the 787 and their continued interest in a 797. And nothing it can do that the 787 and 777 can't)
 
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FA9295
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:20 pm

Didn't UA receive a whole bunch of used A319/A320 jets from CZ not too long ago? I'm sure they're not wanting to get rid of those anytime soon...
 
iahcsr
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:56 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Didn't UA receive a whole bunch of used A319/A320 jets from CZ not too long ago? I'm sure they're not wanting to get rid of those anytime soon...

14 so far. At least seven more in ‘19 and 20+ after that.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
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Veigar
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:22 pm

If they are going to be replaced, probably MAX family of planes.
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:43 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
739er wrote:
“Perhaps the next UAL ALPA contract will contain some Scope language that will permit more larger RJs in exchange for a guarantee of more narrow body aircraft”...

You’re talking about a group that endured some of the deepest furloughs in ALPA history (2172 + 1450) all while more and bigger RJs comprised most of UA’s miserable domestic service throughout the early 2000s. UA and DLs scope agreements are fair and workable,..as is. Kirby’s RJ model is broken, outdated, and unacceptable to UAs customers and employees alike. Ironically, the solution to the problem is right in front of his eyes....In Atlanta.


It seems you missed the point of my comment.

One, I'm well aware of sUA's history of pilot furloughs and what that means to the current pilot group as nearly all of the furloughees are at UA today.

Put yourself in Kirby's shoes for a moment. The current contract allows for more large RJs IF a new small narrow body type (A220, E190) is introduced, doesn't it? Now substitute new ADDITIONAL 737s for those new narrow body aircraft types. Kirby could have an easy sell as the 737s will pay more than the A220s/E190s, won't they? So, I suspect that will be Kirby's strategy - combine that with a guarantee of fleet size at mainline along with a block hours minimum AND that higher 737 pay rate (vs the A220/E190) and then go around ALPA to the pilot group with that plan.


If you are the Hoss I think you are, I can't see you advocating nor the pilot group backing anything like the Kirby scenario you describe. UA pilots has the airline right where they want them and are in a position to improve QOL, hold scope and start the long process of bringing flying back to the mainline helped in part by the increasing curve of pilot retirements.

We've seen pilots jump at cash before but I think enough folks have been down that road far enough to know that concessions to allow half of domestic flying to be outsourced to regionals is an insane idea, especially with a pilot shortage.
 
N649DL
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:50 pm

I personally don't see the oldest A320 frames making it to their 30th birthdays. Most of UA's 320s were delivered in the mid/late 1990s with some even delivered as late as 2002 so they have a range of them. The 319s are significantly younger though.
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:55 pm

Give about 5 years of time and they'll start leaving
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:59 pm

Also note that because of fleet commonality they are more likely to replace the A320s with 7M8s.

The A320s are the worst aircraft in UA's fleet, smaller proportion of FC seats compared to the 738, no seatback IFE, thinnest seats in the entire fleet, and smallest legroom out of all the aircraft as well.
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
freeze3192
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:14 am

FlyHossD wrote:
739er wrote:
“Perhaps the next UAL ALPA contract will contain some Scope language that will permit more larger RJs in exchange for a guarantee of more narrow body aircraft”...

You’re talking about a group that endured some of the deepest furloughs in ALPA history (2172 + 1450) all while more and bigger RJs comprised most of UA’s miserable domestic service throughout the early 2000s. UA and DLs scope agreements are fair and workable,..as is. Kirby’s RJ model is broken, outdated, and unacceptable to UAs customers and employees alike. Ironically, the solution to the problem is right in front of his eyes....In Atlanta.


It seems you missed the point of my comment.

One, I'm well aware of sUA's history of pilot furloughs and what that means to the current pilot group as nearly all of the furloughees are at UA today.

Put yourself in Kirby's shoes for a moment. The current contract allows for more large RJs IF a new small narrow body type (A220, E190) is introduced, doesn't it? Now substitute new ADDITIONAL 737s for those new narrow body aircraft types. Kirby could have an easy sell as the 737s will pay more than the A220s/E190s, won't they? So, I suspect that will be Kirby's strategy - combine that with a guarantee of fleet size at mainline along with a block hours minimum AND that higher 737 pay rate (vs the A220/E190) and then go around ALPA to the pilot group with that plan.


Going around ALPA and straight to the pilot group? You're dreaming. The pilot group would be so outraged it would probably cause a riot. The pilots aren't going to give one inch of scope back. Too many people affected negatively by UAL giving up scope in the first place back in the 90s. Then on top of that, 9/11, age 65, concessionary contracts, 2008, etc.. Also called the lost decade. You could pay each and every UAL mainline pilot $500/hr but it doesn't matter if there are no aircraft to fly. Every single UAL pilot on property realizes that. This discussion is moot anyway because Kirby has already backed down. First he said a 100 seat aircraft has no place at UAL, now he says they are looking into it. That tells me he's realized that ALPA isn't going to give any scope back and UAL needs to get a 100 seater yesterday in order to compete and unlock the extra RJs.

Any sort of guaranteed deliveries doesn't mean squat. UAL did this back in the late 90's and that guarantee was gutted by bankruptcy after 9/11. Sure UAL bought new mainline jets in exchange for RJs...only to park all of the 727s and DC-10s. The RJs kept on coming though.
"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:28 am

My prediction is that the oldest A320s will start leaving around 2020, around when the MAX-10s come on board. Keeping the A320 past then is too much capacity in that time frame if you ask me, so something has to give, and that's the oldest planes in need of a replacement cycle. The MAX-10 will be a healthy capacity increase at just 1 for 1.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I would guess the 737-8 will replace the 319/320. There may be an order for a few 737-7 for airports where their performance is needed. But it seems UA wants to simplify their mainline fleet.

Their future fleet may look something like this:

737NG/Max
797
787
777
359 (I'm personally suspicious of this order. Very little talk of it at UA compared to their excitement with the 787 and their continued interest in a 797. And nothing it can do that the 787 and 777 can't)

It seems like UA is moving to all Boeing fleet for mainline services. Could this be because of the American Airlines's Most-Favoured-Customer Clause with Airbus that UA is moving towards buying more Boeing aircraft? Sorry for asking, I am not really familiar with fleet management with US Big 3.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:41 am

juliuswong wrote:
It seems like UA is moving to all Boeing fleet for mainline services. Could this be because of the American Airlines's Most-Favoured-Customer Clause with Airbus? Sorry for asking, I am not really familiar with fleet management with US Big 3.


I think its likely more complex than that given the size of United's fleet and the different missions they fly. Boeing doesn't have a plane smaller than the -7 in their fleet which is heavier than the A220 for example. UA could order something like that plane to fit between the 76 seat E175 and their next smallest planes (which seat around 118 people).

It all revolves around price, interest rates, fuel economic, expected costs of servicing, engines etc. I'd bet that UA is also considering that we might be towards the end of a economic boom and there may be a correction coming at some point soon which could soften demand. Lots to consider.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:55 am

FA9295 wrote:
Didn't UA receive a whole bunch of used A319/A320 jets from CZ not too long ago? I'm sure they're not wanting to get rid of those anytime soon...

From various sources, they have currently 12 pre-loved A319 from CZ, two more coming to complete the initial 14-aircraft order. Another 20 coming between 2020 and 2021. Conclusively, used A319 fleet will be 34. All are leased from AerCap and ex-CZ.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
UA777FO
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Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:18 am

juliuswong wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Didn't UA receive a whole bunch of used A319/A320 jets from CZ not too long ago? I'm sure they're not wanting to get rid of those anytime soon...

From various sources, they have currently 12 pre-loved A319 from CZ, two more coming to complete the initial 14-aircraft order. Another 20 coming between 2020 and 2021. Conclusively, used A319 fleet will be 34. All are leased from AerCap and ex-CZ.

Actually we are getting 7 more from CZ next year plus the the 20 Cfm powered ones from Easyjet starting in 2020
 
juliuswong
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:59 am

UA777FO wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Didn't UA receive a whole bunch of used A319/A320 jets from CZ not too long ago? I'm sure they're not wanting to get rid of those anytime soon...

From various sources, they have currently 12 pre-loved A319 from CZ, two more coming to complete the initial 14-aircraft order. Another 20 coming between 2020 and 2021. Conclusively, used A319 fleet will be 34. All are leased from AerCap and ex-CZ.

Actually we are getting 7 more from CZ next year plus the the 20 Cfm powered ones from Easyjet starting in 2020

Thank you for the correction. Seems planespotters.net and airfleet got it wrong. How many in total pre-loved A319 will UA end up with once all are inducted into service? Will they do modification for ex-Easyjet aircraft since it has different door configuration?

https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... tus=future
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2101
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:17 am

SonomaFlyer wrote:
If you are the Hoss I think you are, I can't see you advocating nor the pilot group backing anything like the Kirby scenario you describe. UA pilots has the airline right where they want them and are in a position to improve QOL, hold scope and start the long process of bringing flying back to the mainline helped in part by the increasing curve of pilot retirements.

We've seen pilots jump at cash before but I think enough folks have been down that road far enough to know that concessions to allow half of domestic flying to be outsourced to regionals is an insane idea, especially with a pilot shortage.


I may not be the Hoss you think I am - I've been retired for a few years when the need and opportunity to take over the family business came. But I'm also not advocating the position that I've posted (quite the opposite, actually). Rather, I'm trying to warn the current UAL pilot group on how they're going to be sold on "just a simple revision - and improvement, really" that would change the current UAL ALPA contract. Capisce?

freeze3192 wrote:
Going around ALPA and straight to the pilot group? You're dreaming. The pilot group would be so outraged it would probably cause a riot. The pilots aren't going to give one inch of scope back.


I suspect that they will give an inch on Scope despite my wishes that they don't. How many pilots ONLY look at pay rates before voting? In my experience, it's the majority, sadly. So it will be sold to them as a higher pay improvement. So the real key will be to provide protection on fleet size and block hours and when the inevitable downturn comes, a means to force the airline to park the large RJs above today's limit once mainline starts parking planes, too.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
UA777FO
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 2:35 pm

Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:05 am

juliuswong wrote:
UA777FO wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
From various sources, they have currently 12 pre-loved A319 from CZ, two more coming to complete the initial 14-aircraft order. Another 20 coming between 2020 and 2021. Conclusively, used A319 fleet will be 34. All are leased from AerCap and ex-CZ.

Actually we are getting 7 more from CZ next year plus the the 20 Cfm powered ones from Easyjet starting in 2020

Thank you for the correction. Seems planespotters.net and airfleet got it wrong. How many in total pre-loved A319 will UA end up with once all are inducted into service? Will they do modification for ex-Easyjet aircraft since it has different door configuration?

https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... tus=future

I believe as of right now we will have 25 A319’s plus 2 A320’s from CZ and then the 20 from Easyjet. As for the door configuration I don’t know.
 
iahcsr
Posts: 4777
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:50 am

UA777FO wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
UA777FO wrote:
Actually we are getting 7 more from CZ next year plus the the 20 Cfm powered ones from Easyjet starting in 2020

Thank you for the correction. Seems planespotters.net and airfleet got it wrong. How many in total pre-loved A319 will UA end up with once all are inducted into service? Will they do modification for ex-Easyjet aircraft since it has different door configuration?

https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... tus=future

I believe as of right now we will have 25 A319’s plus 2 A320’s from CZ and then the 20 from Easyjet. As for the door configuration I don’t know.

The difference with EasyJet(U2?) is they have four overwing emergency exits vs UA two. I would presume two exits will be deactivated during conversion/induction.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
Jomar777
Posts: 571
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Future of UA's Airbus Fleet

Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:59 am

I actually think that this may really do with the MOM 797. The MOM is a B757/767 replacement to bridge between the 787 and 737. Depending on how this pans up and what we get in the end (WB or NB, performance, etc.), United might consider repositioning their fleet and actually replace their ageing A320/319s by 737s already in their fleets even though it might look like an overkill on a short term. It is not because the MOM 797 is not a direct replacement to the A320 that it may not bring an influence. The other factor is the Boeing/Embraer tie up which might produce an E2 195 on a price which United might feel it is within their expectancy. Or, who knows, a new frame to compete on this level and spread the portfolio just as Airbus did when it boight the C-Series and made them their A220.
Their A359 order (or any A350 on their books) is looking more and more dead in the water. They keep pushing back but actually bringing more 787s into the fleet. An A220 order is extremely unlikely as well as a brand new A320 family one.
So the likelyhood is either a B737-7 or either a E2-195/Embraer MOM or a down gauge of existing B737s once the B797 is ready.

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