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CRJ200flyer
Posts: 151
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:58 am

lightsaber wrote:
It was previously established they ordered a low MTOW and reduced fuel allowed loaded. I assume less thrust too. These are controlled by dongles. At the price DL paid, nothing more will be free.

Everything is a paper/dongle upgrade, but these things are tightly controlled.

For DL, it will allow DTW to the whole USA. Probably 2500nm still air range, down from 3,100nm. That is sufficient. Maintenance intervals will be extended, ATC fees off a lower MTOW.

There is no range limit, but Bombardier does limit fuel loaded by the dongle purchased.

Lightsaber


Thank you for this further explanation. What is a dongle exactly in this case? From my search of the internet this morning, it generically means some type of software that controls functionality. If the aircraft is built a certain way, what cost difference does it make to Bombardier to control how much fuel goes into a tank that is already there? Why would they limit?

Also, does anyone have any numbers in terms of how much thrust and weight are reduced? Is it proportional to maintain a similar thrust to weight ratio?
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:16 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
In flight entertainment... hmmm.

Would it not be cheaper to just supply in-flight internet access, USB charging ports and let the passengers use their own devices?


Cheap "Low Cost Carriers" already do that. Delta uses seatback IFE to differentiate its product, to make it more appealing and seem "premium" to passengers.
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
LupineChemist
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:54 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
In flight entertainment... hmmm.

Would it not be cheaper to just supply in-flight internet access, USB charging ports and let the passengers use their own devices?


I mean after going through the cost of wiring all that up, the cost of the tablet itself really isn't that big of a deal anymore. I'm sure at that volume they're only paying $150 or so per tablet. That's just not that much money compared to the price of the seat plus all the other installation.
 
gsg013
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:56 pm

Love the interior of the new A220 cannot wait to fly on it.

Very good news to have the seatback tablet IFE. even if you don't watch movies on it having the moving map and tracking the flight helps keep pax entertained for flights.
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 824
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:02 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
Thank you for this further explanation. What is a dongle exactly in this case? From my search of the internet this morning, it generically means some type of software that controls functionality. If the aircraft is built a certain way, what cost difference does it make to Bombardier to control how much fuel goes into a tank that is already there? Why would they limit?


This is a business and economics question, not a technical one.

Basically that way they can give a much better price to DL and have it be a different product. It basically works on the idea of price discrimination, something the airline industry is very familiar with. It's about getting different people to pay different prices for the same product.

To keep an airline analogy, what's the difference between your aisle seat and the aisle seat in front of you? Why would the airline make it so the other guy can change their ticket on a whim at no penalty or not require a return segment? it's the same product, after all. But those restrictions make it into different products with different prices.
 
airbazar
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:03 pm

The 2-3 seating is too much for my OCD :)
 
jethawk
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:42 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:27 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
In flight entertainment... hmmm.

Would it not be cheaper to just supply in-flight internet access, USB charging ports and let the passengers use their own devices?



Delta is launching complimentary WIFI. Delta isn't about being cheap. They offer a premium product, and they command a 20% domestic revenue premium over their competition at AA, UA, WN.
 
N212R
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:28 pm

LawAndOrder wrote:
These also aren't DL approved photos.


What is it that DL "approved" photos would otherwise reveal or disguise? Statements like the above are welcome grist for the cynical consumer mill.
 
B757Forever
Posts: 885
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 3:23 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:19 pm

N212R wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
These also aren't DL approved photos.


What is it that DL "approved" photos would otherwise reveal or disguise? Statements like the above are welcome grist for the cynical consumer mill.



I assume what he means is that the photos released by Delta are professionally shot clean images with perfect lighting etc.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
evank516
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:22 pm

jethawk wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
In flight entertainment... hmmm.

Would it not be cheaper to just supply in-flight internet access, USB charging ports and let the passengers use their own devices?



Delta is launching complimentary WIFI. Delta isn't about being cheap. They offer a premium product, and they command a 20% domestic revenue premium over their competition at AA, UA, WN.


And my wallet confirms this statement :rotfl:
 
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 380
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:49 pm

B757Forever wrote:
N212R wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
These also aren't DL approved photos.


What is it that DL "approved" photos would otherwise reveal or disguise? Statements like the above are welcome grist for the cynical consumer mill.



I assume what he means is that the photos released by Delta are professionally shot clean images with perfect lighting etc.


Lol means they are going to have the blue moodlighting going in the official released pics.
A:320/21, 333, 343, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772 || MD80, MD90 || E:145, 170, 175, 190, 195 || CR200, 700, 900
 
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dabpit
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:48 pm

Thanks for sharing! The interior looks really nice and I cannot wait to fly onboard one of these beautiful birds.
Carpe Diem
 
wrongwayup
Posts: 442
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:26 pm

SteelChair wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
many321 wrote:
A220 if pushed, it can fly transcons, Hope to see Delta do that one day, if not use these planes (especially if they top up with the A220-300) to add second daily flights to SAL, GUA, SJO, TGU, from ATL and LAX.


The C-Series can fly transcons without breaking a sweat


Delta got the small engines. I wonder how much that will shorten the range?


Engine thrust has nothing to do with range unless you're talking about takeoffs from short runways.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:34 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Everything is a paper/dongle upgrade, but these things are tightly controlled.


So if DL decided to upgrade these CS100s it would be both a software and hardware upgrade I'm assuming. Not sure what a dongle is

ytz wrote:
I wonder if and when the 717 replacement comes, whether they go for 221s or 223s? Will scope relief still be an issue a decade from now?


I don't think it will matter, these planes will only be flown by mainline pilots


I wonder if the CS300s will be thrust and fuel restricted as well. I hope the CS300s are not so DL can have full capability of the CS300s.
 
MaksFly
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:07 pm

Good to see another 2-3 seating option added for Delta. This is part of the reason I enjoyed flying on the Delta Mad Dogs.
 
mayhem
Posts: 157
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:44 pm

I don't get the excitement if they're replacing many of the E75 routes (except for the folks currently stuck on a CRJ2/7/9 that will get the E75). 2-2 is better than 2-3. And 2-1 is better than 2-2 in first.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:55 pm

wrongwayup wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:

The C-Series can fly transcons without breaking a sweat


Delta got the small engines. I wonder how much that will shorten the range?


Engine thrust has nothing to do with range unless you're talking about takeoffs from short runways.


Really?

You've never seen a flight taking off on a long runway limited by the climb limit weight, based upon obstacke clearance climbing out after V1 with an engine failure?
 
evank516
Posts: 2142
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:56 pm

mayhem wrote:
I don't get the excitement if they're replacing many of the E75 routes (except for the folks currently stuck on a CRJ2/7/9 that will get the E75). 2-2 is better than 2-3. And 2-1 is better than 2-2 in first.


2-3 with IFE is better than 2-2 without IFE.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5362
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:04 pm

N212R wrote:
What would be the reason(s) for Delta to choose an engine whose performance is "restricted"? Is this the same engine type that AirBaltic has needed to frequently change? What thrust version are the other A220 customers currently using?

lower thrust means longer TBOs (time between overhaul), higher on wing time and (generally) shorter TATs. (turn around time or the time it takes to do the overhaul)
wrongwayup wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:

The C-Series can fly transcons without breaking a sweat


Delta got the small engines. I wonder how much that will shorten the range?


Engine thrust has nothing to do with range unless you're talking about takeoffs from short runways.

pretty much. Delta's 220s will have lower range because of the lower MTOW option they are taking.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1272
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:10 pm

YYYAAAAAASSSSSS!

Anyway, prefer this plane compared to B737.
 
worldranger
Posts: 256
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:21 pm

Wonder does anyone have a range graphic comparing side by side the A221(3), MAX& NEO(LR)
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:36 pm

evank516 wrote:
mayhem wrote:
I don't get the excitement if they're replacing many of the E75 routes (except for the folks currently stuck on a CRJ2/7/9 that will get the E75). 2-2 is better than 2-3. And 2-1 is better than 2-2 in first.


2-3 with IFE is better than 2-2 without IFE.


That might be your choice but IFE is an airline's choice that has absolutely nothing to do with the plane.
 
wrongwayup
Posts: 442
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:04 pm

SteelChair wrote:
wrongwayup wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

Delta got the small engines. I wonder how much that will shorten the range?


Engine thrust has nothing to do with range unless you're talking about takeoffs from short runways.


Really?

You've never seen a flight taking off on a long runway limited by the climb limit weight, based upon obstacke clearance climbing out after V1 with an engine failure?


Yes - I've done my fair share of commercial aircraft performance analyses and route studies, if that's what you're asking.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4424
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:06 pm

While the start of the program has been slow, I can see a big push coming for this plane if they do well for Delta! I am pumped to fly on this beauty! Didnt B6 order these as well?

Any possibility of larger versions in the future of the 220?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4766
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:21 pm

Delta did the right thing by installing PTVs. The wi-fi and i bring my own equipment doesn't fly for infrequent flyers. Everyone i know who complains about a flight says "that was an old plane, it didn't even have TVs"
 
evank516
Posts: 2142
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:55 pm

airbazar wrote:
evank516 wrote:
mayhem wrote:
I don't get the excitement if they're replacing many of the E75 routes (except for the folks currently stuck on a CRJ2/7/9 that will get the E75). 2-2 is better than 2-3. And 2-1 is better than 2-2 in first.


2-3 with IFE is better than 2-2 without IFE.


That might be your choice but IFE is an airline's choice that has absolutely nothing to do with the plane.


And the airline's choice as to whether or not to have IFE is relevant to this conversation how? Delta's A220 has IFE, Delta Connection's E175 does not. My comment was regarding Delta specifically, not any other A220 operator.
 
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Blimpie
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:27 pm

I kinda wanna book a personal trip on the 220 just to fly on it.
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
LawAndOrder
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:56 pm

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:04 pm

N212R wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
These also aren't DL approved photos.


What is it that DL "approved" photos would otherwise reveal or disguise? Statements like the above are welcome grist for the cynical consumer mill.


Because it still has plastin on the floor, it has bright white lights. So at no time will a cabin look like that besides final approach inflight final walk through minus the plastic. Go to some of the best night clubs in the day with the lights turned completely on lights play an important part. I do not have a problem with DL interior, it alwyas appear fresh with a pop of interest, I guess my point is with seeing their other interiors what were you expecting to see?

With that being said do not like DL interior, as it is the same as any other plane.
 
SteelChair
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Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:06 am

wrongwayup wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
wrongwayup wrote:

Engine thrust has nothing to do with range unless you're talking about takeoffs from short runways.


Really?

You've never seen a flight taking off on a long runway limited by the climb limit weight, based upon obstacke clearance climbing out after V1 with an engine failure?


Yes - I've done my fair share of commercial aircraft performance analyses and route studies, if that's what you're asking.


Then you should know that your statement was factually incorrect.

I do agree with the other poster that low MTOW is often the more limiting factor. It will be interesting to see how Delta specs out their 300 WRT engine thrust and MTOW.
 
ytz
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:03 am

INFINITI329 wrote:

ytz wrote:
I wonder if and when the 717 replacement comes, whether they go for 221s or 223s? Will scope relief still be an issue a decade from now?


I don't think it will matter, these planes will only be flown by mainline pilots


Quite relevant. I am curious if only the 221 provides DL with scope relief or would the 223 do that too. I believe part of the reason they are fielding 221s is because it allows them to operate more 70/76 seaters with their regionals. Would the 223 let them do that, or would they have to replace all the 717s with 221s?

INFINITI329 wrote:
I wonder if the CS300s will be thrust and fuel restricted as well. I hope the CS300s are not so DL can have full capability of the CS300s.


It's not just the price. I actually think DL is pretty smart here. Pay less when you buy. Engines last longer. And let's face it, the likelihood of sending a 110 seater on a 6hr 2500nm trip is pretty low. Probably the same logic for the 130 seat CS300 too. 2000nm from any DL hub covers most of CONUS. 2400nm from SEA and LAX covers all of CONUS and adds Hawaii. I'll be surprised if any CS100 or even future CS300 is flying anywhere close to 2000nm.

planecane wrote:
Other than that the cabin isn't all that exciting. Seat pitch is much more important than an extra .5" to 1.5" of width for my comfort so that part isn't very exciting to me.


I really don't get what people were expecting a narrowbody upgrade to be. I think there's plenty to be excited about. Luggage bins that can fit large carry-ons. More overhead baggage space per passenger to begin with. More than any Boeing or Airbus aircraft. Large, fully accessible lavatories. Large eye-level windows. And seat widths not seen before on a narrowbody.

You may not think the 0.5" of seat width are a big deal. But for anyone that's close to average size for North America, that's a huge deal. And the seat pitch is not changing. Airlines will not give you more unless you pay for it. So getting wider seats is a big win for economy class passengers. The A220 will literally have the most comfortable economy class narrowbody cabin around. Achieved without making F/J worse.
 
questions
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Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:11 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Delta did the right thing by installing PTVs. The wi-fi and i bring my own equipment doesn't fly for infrequent flyers. Everyone i know who complains about a flight says "that was an old plane, it didn't even have TVs"


As a frequent flyer I prefer PTVs.

1. I can watch a movie or the moving map while using my personal device to do work, read the news, etc
2. I don’t like the strain of looking down at my device when sitting vs looking straight ahead

Now if DL would install a proper hardwall divider between F and Y I’ll be happy. :)
 
Redwood839
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:26 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:23 am

Had delta shown the interior yet? If they haven't and I know this is an aviation forum, what a dick to whoever got inside the plane and took pics and leaked them. Getting a new aircraft type in your fleet and you're not the first to show case it?
 
wrongwayup
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:27 am

SteelChair wrote:
factually incorrect.


I like to think of it as "not overly pedantic". All runway performance analyses assume engine failure at V1 for a given set of airplane, airfield, and atmospheric conditions. Obstacles are inherent to the details of a particular runway end. Given the subject at hand we're unlikely to see any runway or obstacle limitations anywhere DL is flying A220s and so the thrust likely won't be needed; DL would rather see an engine maintenance cost benefit (and lower purchase price) associated with the derated engines. Back on topic...
 
max999
Posts: 1220
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:31 am

Redwood839 wrote:
Had delta shown the interior yet? If they haven't and I know this is an aviation forum, what a dick to whoever got inside the plane and took pics and leaked them. Getting a new aircraft type in your fleet and you're not the first to show case it?


If I were Delta, I wouldn't care much if these were leaked pics because the photos don't show anything we haven't seen before.

First, the A220 is not a new aircraft so there are plenty of pics of its cabin. Second, the interior fittings and seats look almost identical to the other brand new Delta narrowbodies... Just look for the cabin pics of Delta A321s and 739s.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5362
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:38 am

ytz wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:

ytz wrote:
I wonder if and when the 717 replacement comes, whether they go for 221s or 223s? Will scope relief still be an issue a decade from now?


I don't think it will matter, these planes will only be flown by mainline pilots


Quite relevant. I am curious if only the 221 provides DL with scope relief or would the 223 do that too. I believe part of the reason they are fielding 221s is because it allows them to operate more 70/76 seaters with their regionals. Would the 223 let them do that, or would they have to replace all the 717s with 221s?
.

No airplane in the world allows Delta to expand the amount of planes at DCI. DCI is stuck at the current limits.

you are confusing Delta with United. United can add ~90 E90/221/717s for 70(IIRC) more 76 seaters at UAX. Delta did this same deal when adding the 717 but currently there is no contractual provision for more 76 seaters at DCI.

the next battle ground at Delta for scope will be converting the 70 seat limit into 76 seaters. IMO this is why Delta has been ordering E75s and CR9s and only putting 70 seats in them to replace the CR7s.
 
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CARST
Posts: 1556
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:12 am

OA940 wrote:
many321 wrote:
A220 if pushed, it can fly transcons, Hope to see Delta do that one day, if not use these planes (especially if they top up with the A220-300) to add second daily flights to SAL, GUA, SJO, TGU, from ATL and LAX.


You don't have to push it to do TCON. The -100 has the range of a 738, and the -300 of a MAX 10, so it can easily do TCON


It migt be able to do Transcons, but I don't know if that will be doable year-round. JFK-LAX is over 2100nm and the range of this derated birds will be around 2500nm. See the reply by lightsaber below:

lightsaber wrote:
It was previously established they ordered a low MTOW and reduced fuel allowed loaded. I assume less thrust too. These are controlled by dongles. At the price DL paid, nothing more will be free.

Everything is a paper/dongle upgrade, but these things are tightly controlled.

For DL, it will allow DTW to the whole USA. Probably 2500nm still air range, down from 3,100nm. That is sufficient. Maintenance intervals will be extended, ATC fees off a lower MTOW.

There is no range limit, but Bombardier does limit fuel loaded by the dongle purchased.

Lightsaber

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