Dieuwer
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"Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:23 pm

Was flying out of DCA this morning and my flight to BOS was delayed by 3 hours due to "low ceiling" (weather). Looking out of the terminal windows the weather looked ok to me. Nothing scary or special. So what was going on?
Last edited by atcsundevil on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title edited for clarity
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:26 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Was flying out of DCA this morning and my flight to BOS was delayed by 3 hours due to "low ceiling" (weather). Looking out of the terminal windows the weather looked ok to me. Nothing scary or special. So what was going on?


How was BOS weather?
 
0newair0
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:29 pm

Either Boston or the airport your aircraft came from probably had low ceilings (low clouds) or visibility that required increased spacing between aircraft and that caused your flight to be delayed.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
Dieuwer
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:31 pm

Yeah, the inbound flight was delayed, although FlightAware insisted that plane should have arrived the night before. I suspect AA shenanigans.
 
LittleFokker
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:42 pm

BOS (and SFO too) have tricky runway configurations to maximize aircraft movement on. As a result, those airports depend on good weather to do visual approaches (which requires less separation) versus needing instrument approaches. When ever there is a cloud layer at 5000 ft or lower, airports are required to treat all approaches as instrument and increase the separation, resulting in a lower arrival rate. If the winds force a less than optimal runway configuration combined with the need to do instrument approaches, that will likely force the airport into a GDP, causing delays on your flight (the shorter the flight, the more likely it is to get affected by a GDP). That's what low ceilings mean in ATC speak, despite visually not looking like all that bad of a day.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
Dieuwer
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:23 pm

Delta and JetBlue aircraft were arriving and departing at DCA. So no problems there. It seemed that only AA was in operational meltdown.
 
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XAM2175
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:32 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Delta and JetBlue aircraft were arriving and departing at DCA. So no problems there. It seemed that only AA was in operational meltdown.


Sorry, we can be a bit of a simple people here and every now and again we actually directly answer the question that was originally posted. Instead, would you just like somebody to say that AA were being naughty and/or hopeless? It'll save a lot of time.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:32 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Was flying out of DCA this morning and my flight to BOS was delayed by 3 hours due to "low ceiling" (weather). Looking out of the terminal windows the weather looked ok to me. Nothing scary or special. So what was going on?

The only available approach for about two hours this morning was the RNP to Runway 19. Any aircraft that couldn't take that approach — which was most of them — had to hold until the RVR improved and other approaches were available. Many airports in the Mid Atlantic had low RVR this morning, so there was intermittent holding for several airports waiting for visibility to improve.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:36 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Delta and JetBlue aircraft were arriving and departing at DCA. So no problems there. It seemed that only AA was in operational meltdown.


Sorry, we can be a bit of a simple people here and every now and again we actually directly answer the question that was originally posted. Instead, would you just like somebody to say that AA were being naughty and/or hopeless? It'll save a lot of time.


I have become very skeptical of airlines blaming anything that goes wrong on "the weather". How often is it a scheduling mistake or equipment malfunctions that then "conveniently" are blamed on "the weather"?
 
RJNUT
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:40 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
XAM2175 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Delta and JetBlue aircraft were arriving and departing at DCA. So no problems there. It seemed that only AA was in operational meltdown.


Sorry, we can be a bit of a simple people here and every now and again we actually directly answer the question that was originally posted. Instead, would you just like somebody to say that AA were being naughty and/or hopeless? It'll save a lot of time.


I have become very skeptical of airlines blaming anything that goes wrong on "the weather". How often is it a scheduling mistake or equipment malfunctions that then "conveniently" are blamed on "the weather"?


I know it can be frustrating but the carriers dont need to resort to such tactics. The "weather" phenomenon can be quite far reaching and out of the grasp of your average traveler to comprehend. But in general I believe airlines are being honest, just not explaining the minutia of each incident.
 
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:44 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
XAM2175 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Delta and JetBlue aircraft were arriving and departing at DCA. So no problems there. It seemed that only AA was in operational meltdown.


Sorry, we can be a bit of a simple people here and every now and again we actually directly answer the question that was originally posted. Instead, would you just like somebody to say that AA were being naughty and/or hopeless? It'll save a lot of time.


I have become very skeptical of airlines blaming anything that goes wrong on "the weather". How often is it a scheduling mistake or equipment malfunctions that then "conveniently" are blamed on "the weather"?

Well in today's case, I can guarantee you it was because of the weather. We were holding for DCA for quite a while. It seemed to be RJs that were most affected, because they lack the equipment to fly RNP procedures. Mainline aircraft were certainly affected too.
 
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:57 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
XAM2175 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Delta and JetBlue aircraft were arriving and departing at DCA. So no problems there. It seemed that only AA was in operational meltdown.


Sorry, we can be a bit of a simple people here and every now and again we actually directly answer the question that was originally posted. Instead, would you just like somebody to say that AA were being naughty and/or hopeless? It'll save a lot of time.


I have become very skeptical of airlines blaming anything that goes wrong on "the weather". How often is it a scheduling mistake or equipment malfunctions that then "conveniently" are blamed on "the weather"?


All delays are coded, and at my airline (not AA) have to be accounted for by a written statement by a manager or supervisor. These are all logged and audited internally as well as subject to audit by the DOT. Airlines are very honest about delays because individual people report them, and misrepresenting the airline to the government is usually a fireable offense. People want to keep food on their table, there’s no incentive to the person who inputs the delay to be dishonest.
Last edited by jetmatt777 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wxtech
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:57 pm

I didn't see any reportable RVR in the DCA obs this morning. In terms of visibility the lowest reported was 3 miles. Lowest CIG was 6 hundred.
 
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:04 am

wxtech wrote:
I didn't see any reportable RVR in the DCA obs this morning. In terms of visibility the lowest reported was 3 miles. Lowest CIG was 6 hundred.

I don't know exactly what the RVR was at DCA, but PCT said that the only available approach was the RNP to 19, and that was the case between about 7:30 and 9:30, so obviously the RVR was an issue. I do know that the RVR at RDU was less than 2000 and at GSO it was 1600, so the whole region had low vis this morning.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:10 am

The point is that people get upset when they perceive they are being lied at.
A simple explanation like: “low clouds at XYZ prevents us from departing on time” goes a long way, instead of “the weather did it”.
Also, delays should be accuratetly stated, like: “it will likely take more than an hour” instead of “shortly”.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:26 am

Dieuwer wrote:
The point is that people get upset when they perceive they are being lied at.
A simple explanation like: “low clouds at XYZ prevents us from departing on time” goes a long way, instead of “the weather did it”.
Also, delays should be accuratetly stated, like: “it will likely take more than an hour” instead of “shortly”.

But think about it from the gate agent's perspective.. If the weather at the origin and destination is favorable, but there's significant weather enroute (or if there's a cloud in the vicinity of NYC, which screws up the entire NAS), then it's easier to just say "weather". You and many others are smart enough to understand the difference, but some people don't understand that airplanes can't just fly over every storm. Or in this case, they don't understand why airplanes can't land because it's foggy. It's easier to say "weather" than try to explain something to people who won't understand.

As for your "more than an hour" vs "shortly" — that's kind of the problem with visibility. It's difficult to put a time value on something that can fluctuate fairly significantly, particularly if the numbers are hovering right around minimums. ATC doesn't force aircraft into holding for visibility, but they do have to determine what types of approaches are eligible for reduced visibility. The rest is up to the pilots and the minimums set by their company SOP, and it's based on aircraft limitations to fly the procedure. An RVR reading can fluctuate above or below those minimums every 10-15 minutes, so there's no accurate way of judging how long the delay could take. Pilots will ask ATC, and our answer usually involves a shrug and something along the lines of, "Hopefully soon?"

Long story short, instances like this aren't anyone's fault. It's nice if the gate agents would communicate more information, but you can't forget that a lot of people simply wouldn't understand anyway, so it's easy to see why it's simpler to just save their breath.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:34 am

Pilot announcement: “we are waiting for paperwork from the tower. It will only take a minute and then we’re on our way”

Now you all guess how long this “minute” really was.
 
D L X
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:03 am

Watched the flightline this morning on my way to work. VERY soupy.

I’ve experienced the three hour delay on mornings like this. It’s rare, but it does happen. DCA is remarkably efficient, except in fog. Kinda hard to do a river visual in these conditions, I suppose.
 
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:36 am

I tend to go to the FAA website to see the cause of ground delays and whether or not they’re airline specific. I’m seeing a GDP for DCA right now due to low ceilings, so wouldn’t be surprised if this morning’s isn’t related.

It’s up to the airline though which of its flights are getting in first, so that’s where RJ’s tend to be last in line.
 
jasoncrh
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:05 am

I live in DC. I followed this this morning as I had several friends at DCA and trying to arrive DCA on multiple airlines (DL, UA, AA) and they were all massively delayed. I checked the FAA web site several times and there were, at all times, either full on ground stops at DCA or delay programs limiting arrivals and departures. we had a rainy morning with low clouds. This wasn't some fun joke that AA played to annoy people, as some people here seem to imply. There was a legitimate issue and it did impact all airlines. Not just AA.
 
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:05 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Pilot announcement: “we are waiting for paperwork from the tower. It will only take a minute and then we’re on our way”

Now you all guess how long this “minute” really was.

Yeah, they were waiting for their departure clearance, which wasn't given because of the ground delay program. For obvious reasons, priority is given to arriving aircraft, so the tower has to wait on a release from the ZDC Traffic Management Unit. When visibility is around minimums and they're using RNP approaches instead of visuals, it means their acceptance rate (the number of airplanes that can land per hour) is roughly cut in half. They aren't going to sacrifice that arrival rate in favor of departures when Inbound aircraft are holding.

Just to put into perspective how many airplanes were holding for DCA, so many of them diverted to RIC that RIC was effectively shut off for diversions unless they had a gate assignment.

jasoncrh wrote:
This wasn't some fun joke that AA played to annoy people, as some people here seem to imply. There was a legitimate issue and it did impact all airlines. Not just AA.

Right, RJs in particular since many of them aren't equipped to fly RNP approaches. As I mentioned up thread, the RNP 19 was the only available option for about two hours. If I'm not mistaken, CRJs and ERJs don't have VNAV (vertical navigation) capability — they can fly RNAV SIDS/STARS by manually inputting the published altitude assignments, but that's not good enough for an RNP approach. Occasionally when the weather is poor at DCA and the ILS 1 isn't available, the only options are the RNP and LDA approaches to 19, which can't be flown by some aircraft, and creates a complete mess. It only happens a few times a year, sort of like the chaos that ensues when IAD is restricted to 12/30 ops.
 
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:26 am

[quote="atcsundevil"][/quote]

Thanks for your perspective, atcsundevil. I will be the first to admit I don't understand all the lingo and operational logistics behind navigation, approaches, etc., so I appreciate your commentary.

It makes me feel a little better. A colleague and I were scheduled to fly BNA-DCA this morning. Her WN flight (obviously a 737), scheduled at 9:55, took off at 10:30 and instead landed at 12:55, only 25 minutes late. My AA ERJ-175, scheduled for 10:14, a mere 19 minutes later, was cancelled (the inbound aircraft never left DCA), then I spent the next 5-and-a-half hours getting rolled over from flight to flight on American Eagle, with everything experiencing creeping delays. I had gone on Flight Aware, so I knew about the "low ceilings" issue, but I was at a loss to explain to fellow disgruntled passengers why WN's flights were taking off and landing with minimal delays while AA Eagle was a cluster.
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Antarius
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:26 am

People forget that delayed flights cause major issues for airlines. Crew can time out, aircraft are out of place resulting in downstream delays etc etc etc.

Airlines dont delay flights for fun. They do it because they have to.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR MAA KTM
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:14 am

UALFAson wrote:
Thanks for your perspective, atcsundevil. I will be the first to admit I don't understand all the lingo and operational logistics behind navigation, approaches, etc., so I appreciate your commentary.

It makes me feel a little better. A colleague and I were scheduled to fly BNA-DCA this morning. Her WN flight (obviously a 737), scheduled at 9:55, took off at 10:30 and instead landed at 12:55, only 25 minutes late. My AA ERJ-175, scheduled for 10:14, a mere 19 minutes later, was cancelled (the inbound aircraft never left DCA), then I spent the next 5-and-a-half hours getting rolled over from flight to flight on American Eagle, with everything experiencing creeping delays. I had gone on Flight Aware, so I knew about the "low ceilings" issue, but I was at a loss to explain to fellow disgruntled passengers why WN's flights were taking off and landing with minimal delays while AA Eagle was a cluster.

Yikes, sorry to hear that. Like I said, this issue is generally pretty rare, but when it happens, it makes for a real mess. DCA is so tightly scheduled in the first place that it has trouble accommodating delays from bad weather. LGA is the same.

We all knew the visibility was bad this morning, but I think it ended up being worse than what was forecasted. Had the airport been in a north operation (where an ILS is available), things would have been a little smoother since any commercial aircraft can fly an ILS. When the airport is landing south, the only "precision" approach (precision being in quotes because an RNP is actually a very precise non-precision approach) requires fancier equipment in the cockpit. That made for a little bit of a double-whammy. Runway 19 can't have an ILS since that would involve flying over things like the White House, which for fairly obvious reasons ain't happening. An RNP and an LDA (a localizer type approach) is the only option when the River Visual goes out the window.

It isn't that generally speaking some aircraft are capable of an RNP approach and others aren't, they just aren't always equipped by the customer to save costs...particularly at regional carriers. Considering Republic Airlines didn't bother installing printers on their E175s, the lack of somewhat unnecessary advanced navigation equipment shouldn't really come as a surprise. That's no reason to avoid RJs because it's rarely an issue, but unfortunately on days like today, it certainly would have been nice.

At the end of the day, this is one of those times where nobody is really at fault. It sucks to be inconvenienced, but that's a whole lot better than running an unsafe operation. All of these standards and procedures exist to make our system safe, so while it isn't fun waiting around on the ground for a departure clearance, it's better than putting airplanes already in the air at risk.
 
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:22 am

UALFAson wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:


Thanks for your perspective, atcsundevil. I will be the first to admit I don't understand all the lingo and operational logistics behind navigation, approaches, etc., so I appreciate your commentary.

It makes me feel a little better. A colleague and I were scheduled to fly BNA-DCA this morning. Her WN flight (obviously a 737), scheduled at 9:55, took off at 10:30 and instead landed at 12:55, only 25 minutes late. My AA ERJ-175, scheduled for 10:14, a mere 19 minutes later, was cancelled (the inbound aircraft never left DCA), then I spent the next 5-and-a-half hours getting rolled over from flight to flight on American Eagle, with everything experiencing creeping delays. I had gone on Flight Aware, so I knew about the "low ceilings" issue, but I was at a loss to explain to fellow disgruntled passengers why WN's flights were taking off and landing with minimal delays while AA Eagle was a cluster.


WN is able to fly the RNP approach to runway 19, and whatever regional you were flying on isn't. The minimums are a few hundred feet lower. I've seen DCA ground stop non RNP-capable aircraft before. This happens a few times a year when the ceiling is below 800 feet and the winds are too strong out of the south to allow runway 01 ops.
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benjjk
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:35 am

Dieuwer wrote:
The point is that people get upset when they perceive they are being lied at.
A simple explanation like: “low clouds at XYZ prevents us from departing on time” goes a long way, instead of “the weather did it”.
Also, delays should be accuratetly stated, like: “it will likely take more than an hour” instead of “shortly”.


I can guarantee you that if the airline staff know that the delay will be over an hour, then they will not be pretending it is 'shortly'.

But if there is a question of whether it will be 15 or 55 minutes (as many maintenance events are) then they will definitely lie to you for the benefit of everyone. If they even suggest a possibility of a lengthy delay you are going to have people go for a wander around the terminal, grab a coffee or even head outside for a smoke. Suddenly if the aircraft is ready to board 5 minutes later they'll have to waste time paging them, possibly offloading bags, delaying your flight. People are dumb and they must be catered for.
 
739er
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:15 am

739er wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
XAM2175 wrote:

Sorry, we can be a bit of a simple people here and every now and again we actually directly answer the question that was originally posted. Instead, would you just like somebody to say that AA were being naughty and/or hopeless? It'll save a lot of time.


I have become very skeptical of airlines blaming anything that goes wrong on "the weather". How often is it a scheduling mistake or equipment malfunctions that then "conveniently" are blamed on "the weather"?


Flow control, ground stops, metering, EDCTs, wheels ups, in trail separation,...
Guess what triggers these nasty little terms issued by your friendly FAA government agency in the busy northeast corridor?....THE WEATHER!
And you’d better believe Delta and JetBlue enjoy their fair share of that action too. Hell, I work for AA’s competition and I’ll defend them on this one. Go whine on one of those travel blogs with all the bozos that know nothing about the ins and outs of commercial aviation. You’ll be better received by them.
 
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:06 pm

wxtech wrote:
I didn't see any reportable RVR in the DCA obs this morning. In terms of visibility the lowest reported was 3 miles. Lowest CIG was 6 hundred.


And in DCA for the LDA 19, you have to have 1100 feet. The RNP is the only approach that gets you below that on 19, if you can't do the RNP, you can't get in.
 
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Re: *Low Ceiling"

Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:28 pm

RJNUT wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
XAM2175 wrote:

Sorry, we can be a bit of a simple people here and every now and again we actually directly answer the question that was originally posted. Instead, would you just like somebody to say that AA were being naughty and/or hopeless? It'll save a lot of time.


I have become very skeptical of airlines blaming anything that goes wrong on "the weather". How often is it a scheduling mistake or equipment malfunctions that then "conveniently" are blamed on "the weather"?


I know it can be frustrating but the carriers dont need to resort to such tactics. The "weather" phenomenon can be quite far reaching and out of the grasp of your average traveler to comprehend. But in general I believe airlines are being honest, just not explaining the minutia of each incident.


Well, I mean I had it happen once. My B6 flight was randomly cancelled, and when I called B6 to rebook, they mentioned weather, but when I reached out to a friend who was a dispatcher for them he told me it was a mx cancellation as B6 had to take the plane out of service for the day.
 
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:06 pm

So, in order to minimize potential DCA troubles, fly a widebody instead of a ERJ/CRJ?
 
IADCA
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:30 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
So, in order to minimize potential DCA troubles, fly a widebody instead of a ERJ/CRJ?


Good luck with that!
 
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:40 pm

IADCA wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
So, in order to minimize potential DCA troubles, fly a widebody instead of a ERJ/CRJ?


Good luck with that!


You beat me to it :)

As much as people love to blame the airlines for absolutely everything from roadway traffic getting to the airport to flight delays due to a freaking cat-5 hurricane; somethings are not the fault of the airlines. Until American manages to buy a weather control device from Ernst Stavro Blofeld, I don't think we could put much blame on AA for this one.
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qcpilotxf
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:48 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
So, in order to minimize potential DCA troubles, fly a widebody instead of a ERJ/CRJ?



You can even run into issues with that concept. its impossible to generalize the decisions that airline management makes on who gets delayed and who doesn't during weather delays. Normally the decision is made to impact the fewest number of passengers possible but there is also crew decisions to be made and the airline must follow the contracts the crew has.

Also flying a widebody that lacks the equipment to get into the airport would put you into the same boat ;)
 
IADCA
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:06 pm

qcpilotxf wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
So, in order to minimize potential DCA troubles, fly a widebody instead of a ERJ/CRJ?



You can even run into issues with that concept. its impossible to generalize the decisions that airline management makes on who gets delayed and who doesn't during weather delays. Normally the decision is made to impact the fewest number of passengers possible but there is also crew decisions to be made and the airline must follow the contracts the crew has.

Also flying a widebody that lacks the equipment to get into the airport would put you into the same boat ;)


Even ignoring the issue of there being no regularly scheduled widebody flights at DCA, there is indeed something in this post. DCA has also experienced occasionally some high-wind conditions that essentially closed 1/19 due to crosswinds, meaning that on those days only planes that could land on a ~5,000 foot runway with a still-significant crosswind component could make it in. There were E-Jets and 73Gs making it in while larger 737s and up were heading to IAD or further afield.
 
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:33 pm

Nikki Haley chimes in:

Flight delayed yesterday morning. Flight cancelled last night. We had to take the train and didn’t get in until 2:30am. It seems like flights are getting less and less reliable. Where is the accountability for the customer? #TravelNightmares @AmericanAir

— Nikki Haley (@nikkihaley) October 16, 2018


!!!

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ardingArea
 
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Lemieux
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:43 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Nikki Haley chimes in:

Flight delayed yesterday morning. Flight cancelled last night. We had to take the train and didn’t get in until 2:30am. It seems like flights are getting less and less reliable. Where is the accountability for the customer? #TravelNightmares @AmericanAir

— Nikki Haley (@nikkihaley) October 16, 2018


!!!

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ardingArea

Just say you hate AA and look for a reason to justify your hate and move on dude
Full time internet idiot. A319/20/20NEO/21/332/333, Boeing 733/734/737/738/752/753/762/763/772/773/788/789, CR2/7/9, de Havilland DHC-8, Embraer 140/145/175/190, MD82/88.
 
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Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:35 pm

It seems like flights are getting less and less reliable.

The ignorance of this statement is truly astounding.

I guess too many people have forgotten the days when crashes happened on a regular basis. Maybe they're virtually nonexistent these days precisely because we've learned lessons from past tragedies. The system is far from perfect, but the track record of US aviation over the past two decades speaks for itself. Period. If people don't want to understand the "why" behind the way things are done, then maybe they just shouldn't complain to begin with, because it sounds pretty stupid.

There were two options yesterday: land on the ILS to Runway 1 (the direction not favored by wind conditions)/shoot visual approaches below minimums, both of which risk injuring or killing people, or restrict operations to the RNP 19 approach and inconvenience people. I'm sorry, but that's not really much of a choice.

I'm hardly an apologist for airlines since they're generally the cause of congestion and delays in the northeast corridor, but in this case? Come on...
 
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Blimpie
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:48 pm

Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:45 pm

Could you imagine wide body aircraft coming in to DCA? People bitch and moan like mad as it is in Georgetown over what comes in now as it is; and today's airliners a nowhere near loud as they were 30 years ago! The first time someone up there hears word that a B767/777/787 or Airbus A330/340/350 would be flying in to DCA will go nuts!
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1012
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:55 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
So, in order to minimize potential DCA troubles, fly a widebody instead of a ERJ/CRJ?


If you've been following the discussion, I think it's pretty obvious the OP meant a "mainline" aircraft instead of the word "widebody." One person pointing out the humor in the typo is fine, but we don't need to gangpile on him/her. There's already enough snark in this thread and on this site.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
lat41
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

Re: "Low Ceiling" at DCA this morning

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:13 pm

To the South, at PVD, AA and WN flights to DCA went off without a hitch.

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