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ro1960
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EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:41 am

This has been rumored in various threads recently. This seems to be a confirmation.

(Sorry I can't go behind the paywall so if someone can summarize the article, that would be great).

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/71733-eurowings-brussels-to-merge-by-end-2020?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
You may like my airport photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroports
 
B747forever
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:31 am

So is the SN brand disappearing?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
oldannyboy
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:44 am

ro1960 wrote:
This has been rumored in various threads recently. This seems to be a confirmation.

(Sorry I can't go behind the paywall so if someone can summarize the article, that would be great).

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/71733-eurowings-brussels-to-merge-by-end-2020?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook


Oh well, this is bad news for aficionados...
As much as the SN Brussels name is not what SABENA once was in terms of branding, Eurowings is truly the perfect example of what a lackluster, meh/blah, cheap, disposable, meaningless, rock-bottom-price-only name conjured-up-hastily-in-a-windowless-board-meeting-room is.
At least they could have come up with a proper livery, rather than that awful greyish-bluish-purple smudge that screams city transport.
 
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zkojq
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:50 am

That's a real shame - can't be good for company morale among employees.
First to fly the 787-9
 
LUKAS10
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:27 pm

Well, we all expected that it's going to happen. Now we can all wait until EW swallows Austrian.
 
Puissance
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:33 pm

This thread had news about SN during the strike. They have started talking about the article, but no one has access to the pricey subscription either. https://www.aviation24.be/forums/viewto ... start=1240
 
drdisque
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:57 pm

Let's be honest though, EW and SN's products are very similar, the name actually makes sense "Eurowings for the Capital of Europe" and SN really never gained any traction doing anything beyond what they previously did (funnel traffic from Francophone Africa to Europe and North America)
 
LUKAS10
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:02 pm

drdisque wrote:
Let's be honest though, EW and SN's products are very similar, the name actually makes sense "Eurowings for the Capital of Europe" and SN really never gained any traction doing anything beyond what they previously did (funnel traffic from Francophone Africa to Europe and North America)


I totally agree!
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:04 pm

The initial plan was to "keep the SN brand in the short term" but that has probably gone out the window now.
 
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American 767
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:47 pm

So does that mean there will be no more Belgium based airline? Except maybe VLM in Antwerp.
Ben Soriano
 
Puissance
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:52 pm

New information on www.aviation24.be from forum leader posted on thread linked to earlier- "Subscription to ch-aviation is expensive. Aviation24 doesn't have access, hence we called Brussels Airlines, which told us there is nothing new.

Earlier this year, SN CEO Christina Foerster granted an interview to a Belgian newspaper in which she said that the organisational integration (not the merger) between Eurowings and Brussels Airlines would be completed by end-2020, beginning 2021. Journalists from more distant countries, like Switzerland, retained only the fact that the merger would be completed by end-2020.

In fact, the integration is proceeding at a normal pace, without hurry. That process takes time.

If a more detailed calendar is defined, if more recent information arises, we shall be contacted together with the mainstream press."
 
Keegan
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:56 pm

American 767 wrote:
So does that mean there will be no more Belgium based airline? Except maybe VLM in Antwerp.


VLM went under at the end of August this year. After this merger, there will no longer be a Belgian airline, so to speak.

It's a real shame, definitely. Sabena was the airline that flew me from South Africa to my new home in the north of England in 1999, so there's a bit of a sentimental connection between me and SN. It'll be a shame to see it go!
 
ahj2000
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:04 pm

So what about all the African routes? Will they be Eurowings branded? That's just weird to me...
-Andrés Juánez
 
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adamblang
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:22 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
So what about all the African routes? Will they be Eurowings branded? That's just weird to me...

As weird as their current services to Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Egypt, Jamaica, Mauritius, Mexico, Morocco, Namibia, Thailand, Tunisia, and the United States. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:30 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
So what about all the African routes? Will they be Eurowings branded? That's just weird to me...


You beat me to it!

Africa is a totally different animal from the Eurowings model - Belgium has a long history of air routes to/from Africa, even though it only really "had" the-now Democratic Republic of Congo (Zaire). Africa routes don't fit the low-cost pattern the way that long-distance vacation routes like Cuba and Jamaica do. Someone will need to pick up this slack for Africa-Brussels O&D, including first class and voluminous cargo capacity. If not, other carriers will be up the slack and that market share will simply be split, with Air France taking the majority, I would imagine.
 
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OA940
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:32 pm

Is there anything SN and the Belgians can do about this? I can't imagine they'd be too happy

Also will SN adapt the EW service/seats or will they keep theirs?

Anyway it sucks to see that management at the LH Group can't seem to make any good decision lately. I hope for the best for the SN people.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
workhorse
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:40 pm

Why don't they do it to Lufthansa brand as well? Who cares anyway, right?
 
workhorse
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:42 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Eurowings is truly the perfect example of what a lackluster, meh/blah, cheap, disposable, meaningless, rock-bottom-price-only name conjured-up-hastily-in-a-windowless-board-meeting-room is.


As exciting as a condom, as a friend of mine used to say. :duck:
 
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cathay747
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:03 pm

And the anschluss continues LOL Poor SN, although contrary to the comments above about Eurowings being a dumb name, I always thought that SN Brussels and then just plain Brussels was.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Blerg
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:19 pm

Will anyone besides the employees actually care they will be gone? I can't imagine their brand being strong anywhere besides maybe BRU. Their brand was pointless, bland and uninspiring and they had no symbolism or any strong link to the country or markets they served.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:15 pm

What happens to the Africa network built by SABENA over the years will be interesting. I can’t see them abandoning routes like FIH or KGL, but Air France could push for the rest of Africa. I see LH Group reducing to 4 brands: Lufthansa, Lufthansa Cargo (separate AOC), Swiss, and Eurowings, with DUS, MUC, and VIE long-haul hubs, with a mix of D-, OE-, and OO- aircraft.
 
mict
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:07 am

Blerg wrote:
Will anyone besides the employees actually care they will be gone? I can't imagine their brand being strong anywhere besides maybe BRU. Their brand was pointless, bland and uninspiring and they had no symbolism or any strong link to the country or markets they served.


Their brand was pointless and uninspiring? People were very appreciative of the SN brand, all their special liveries made people smile when flying SN. I am sorry but SN wasn't bland and uninspiring, quite the contrary.
And yes people in Belgium (and I am sure many more outside the country as well), do care about SN.

Image
Image
Image
 
wakymike
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:50 am

It's a real shame what LH is doing, swallowing even european members' national carriers. The Brussels Airlines brand went very well lately and is very popular with passengers. For my part, I'm happy our home carrier Luxair threw LH out as a shareholder a few years ago, otherwise they would've done the same to Luxair.
 
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vhtje
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:01 am

oldannyboy wrote:
Eurowings is truly the perfect example of what a lackluster, meh/blah, cheap, disposable, meaningless, rock-bottom-price-only name conjured-up-hastily-in-a-windowless-board-meeting-room is.


See: LEVEL
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
LH779
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:12 am

wakymike wrote:
For my part, I'm happy our home carrier Luxair threw LH out as a shareholder a few years ago, otherwise they would've done the same to Luxair.


Really, they "threw them out"? All I can find is that LH wanted to sell their 13% in 2015 and they did that.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I see LH Group reducing to 4 brands: Lufthansa, Lufthansa Cargo (separate AOC), Swiss, and Eurowings, with DUS, MUC, and VIE long-haul hubs, with a mix of D-, OE-, and OO- aircraft.


LH just based 5 of their A380s and (for now) all A350s in MUC, next summer more capacity moves from FRA to MUC (A333s to FRA, A346s and new A359s to MUC). Do you really think "europe's only 5-star airline" would transfer a 100+ aircraft hub at the "best airport of europe" to EW, an airline with a bad reputation for delays and cancellations? While I agree that OS is probably the next airline to merge with / be replaced by EW, I don't see LH giving away the MUC hub to EW.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:05 am

Blerg wrote:
Will anyone besides the employees actually care they will be gone? I can't imagine their brand being strong anywhere besides maybe BRU. Their brand was pointless, bland and uninspiring and they had no symbolism or any strong link to the country or markets they served.


You either must be joking, or obviously talking about things you know nothing about. Have you ever been to Belgium? Do you know Brussels? Do you happen to know anything of the SABENA legacy that they inherited in Africa, and that they are literally 'the lifeline' to Europe for millions of people in said continent?
 
oldannyboy
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:07 am

workhorse wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Eurowings is truly the perfect example of what a lackluster, meh/blah, cheap, disposable, meaningless, rock-bottom-price-only name conjured-up-hastily-in-a-windowless-board-meeting-room is.


As exciting as a condom, as a friend of mine used to say. :duck:

Yep, as exciting as a used, discarded condom. Same colour.
 
Blerg
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:57 am

oldannyboy wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Will anyone besides the employees actually care they will be gone? I can't imagine their brand being strong anywhere besides maybe BRU. Their brand was pointless, bland and uninspiring and they had no symbolism or any strong link to the country or markets they served.


You either must be joking, or obviously talking about things you know nothing about. Have you ever been to Belgium? Do you know Brussels? Do you happen to know anything of the SABENA legacy that they inherited in Africa, and that they are literally 'the lifeline' to Europe for millions of people in said continent?


Obviously that lifeline isn't enough to keep them afloat. Their brand might be strong in a few places but overall I highly doubt it especially across Europe... that is the market that really matters for them and without which they can't remain solvent. And anyway, if their brand was that strong then LH wouldn't be the first to consider its withdrawal. After all, if brand awareness wasn't important for LH Group then Austrian Airlines would have become Eurowings long time ago.
 
vinniewinnie
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:04 am

Eurowings as a brand totally makes sense given that Brussels airport is the airport that serves the capital of Europe.

As to operations, I thought brussels airlines was taking over some of eurowings long haul operations. Thus, who is to say that Brussels airlines current staff won’t be involved in the daily running of the airline.

Finally, get over the branding thing. continental & US Airways were much bigger brands and disappeared. No one died because of that! It’s truly 20th century aviation thinking that every country needs its own uniquely branded airline!
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:04 am

LH779 wrote:
wakymike wrote:
For my part, I'm happy our home carrier Luxair threw LH out as a shareholder a few years ago, otherwise they would've done the same to Luxair.


Really, they "threw them out"? All I can find is that LH wanted to sell their 13% in 2015 and they did that.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I see LH Group reducing to 4 brands: Lufthansa, Lufthansa Cargo (separate AOC), Swiss, and Eurowings, with DUS, MUC, and VIE long-haul hubs, with a mix of D-, OE-, and OO- aircraft.


LH just based 5 of their A380s and (for now) all A350s in MUC, next summer more capacity moves from FRA to MUC (A333s to FRA, A346s and new A359s to MUC). Do you really think "europe's only 5-star airline" would transfer a 100+ aircraft hub at the "best airport of europe" to EW, an airline with a bad reputation for delays and cancellations? While I agree that OS is probably the next airline to merge with / be replaced by EW, I don't see LH giving away the MUC hub to EW.


My mistake...I meant Brussels National.
 
stylo777
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:52 am

I understand both sides: the emotionally driven pro-SN people as well as the finances-driven hardliner. At the end of the day, it's all about costs and revenues. The people in lead don't care about your emotionally driven opinion about tradition, "used'to'be like..." comments, history, etc. They decide what will earn the most money. I understand tradition and emotion, but let's be honest, nobody cares and the employees the least about Sabena if todays SN is going belly up. The company was not in good shape and still isn't. Reallity reveals that it actually has 25-30 less aircraft than LX or OS. Surviving on its own with LCC's all around the place, the own company structures and ever demanding unions, and focusing only on a handful African routes it will be a really really though challenge - again, this is reality one can't and shouldn't deny!
 
DALCE
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:05 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if LH will start basing LH branded planes in BRU somewhere down the line. ( 2025ish)

FRA,MUC,BRU for LH
ZRH for LX
DUS & VIE for EW
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
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ro1960
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:07 pm

vinniewinnie wrote:
Eurowings as a brand totally makes sense given that Brussels airport is the airport that serves the capital of Europe.


More accurately it is the de facto capital of the EU, because of the many EU institutions located there but not an official title.

Ironically, though, Eurocontrol is headquartered in Brussels.
You may like my airport photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroports
 
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leleko747
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:18 pm

Don't worry guys... in 10 years or so, we'll only have Ryanair, Wizz Air and Lufthansa Pan-Europe as the only European carriers.
Bye.
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
BA174
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:37 pm

vinniewinnie wrote:
Eurowings as a brand totally makes sense given that Brussels airport is the airport that serves the capital of Europe.

As to operations, I thought brussels airlines was taking over some of eurowings long haul operations. Thus, who is to say that Brussels airlines current staff won’t be involved in the daily running of the airline.

Finally, get over the branding thing. continental & US Airways were much bigger brands and disappeared. No one died because of that! It’s truly 20th century aviation thinking that every country needs its own uniquely branded airline!



Regardless of the current political scene I don’t think anybody really recognises BRU is the capital of Europe at all!

While SN is a small brand and isn’t a global brand by any stretch of the imagination like the likes of AF/BA/KL etc are airline branding still plays a major part in most national carriers markets and marketing strategy. CO/US/NW were smaller branded airlines in a much larger country where AA/UA/DL still exist as the multiple flag carriers if you like. Slightly different to a non US country’s carrier loosing its national identity.

Really I think SN is in a difficult spot, very small home market, saturated with competition with limited long haul routes and virtually no expansion operating some of the oldest A330s in the world.
 
LUKAS10
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:52 pm

I am afraid those who think more European careers won't exist very soon, are not that far from reality. With the increasing price of the oil, we will see more airlines disappearing from the map. The future of European aviation belongs to the big players, like LH, BA, FR,...

I would assume, LH will stick to the operation out of its two and only hubs in FRA and MUC. SN and OS are going to be swallowed by EW.
FR will be everywhere, as U2 and LEVEL are going to dominate the Western European market. W6 will be the active player in the east and will get even stronger as I think RO and JU will be gone in a couple of years. I don't even JU expect to be here any longer. When it comes to the CEE region, LO may have a chance to survive as well as OK and BT, however, they will experience a pretty hard time.

Scandinavia will be an exciting place to observe. SK or DY? Who is going to dominate the market? Or shall we expect IAG acquiring DY and turn it into LEVEL?
Regarding LEVEL, I don't believe VY will be here any longer.
Italy and France are quite unpredictable (as always). What is going to happen with AZ, IG and AF?
 
peanuts
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:28 pm

Brussels and Belgium are just kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. AF/KL, CDG/AMS, and fast train connections have this area covered extremely well. It would almost have been better for AF/KL to take control of Brussels Airlines as well, years ago, and optimize that airlines' functionality. Now with LH at the wheel traffic will be directed more eastward and less Africa minded.
 
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American 767
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:32 pm

The three major players in Europe are Air France, Lufthansa and British Airways, I don't see any of these three going away in the near future, not even in the foreseeable future. Other than the three major European players, there are now three big low cost carriers in Europe: Easy Jet, Ryanair and Norwegian, they dominate Europe. These six airlines are ones most likely to stay alive. KLM and Iberia still have chances to survive, although wholly owned by Air France and British Airways respectively. Eurowings might survive too, although it is not that big. Turkish also is still strong to survive, yes. After SN gets swallowed, the next ones that will disappear will be Swiss and Austrian, Lufthansa dominates the whole of Central Europe. I don't see Alitalia, Aer Lingus, SAS, LOT, CSA, S7, Tarom and Finnair...any of these getting big. All of these will be gone before the major players will. Scandinavia will be dominated by Norwegian. In Russia...only one major player: Aeroflot.
Ben Soriano
 
peanuts
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:49 pm

American 767 wrote:
The three major players in Europe are Air France, Lufthansa and British Airways, I don't see any of these three going away in the near future, not even in the foreseeable future. Other than the three major European players, there are now three big low cost carriers in Europe: Easy Jet, Ryanair and Norwegian, they dominate Europe. These six airlines are ones most likely to stay alive. KLM and Iberia still have chances to survive, although wholly owned by Air France and British Airways respectively. Eurowings might survive too, although it is not that big. Turkish also is still strong to survive, yes. After SN gets swallowed, the next ones that will disappear will be Swiss and Austrian, Lufthansa dominates the whole of Central Europe. I don't see Alitalia, Aer Lingus, SAS, LOT, CSA, S7, Tarom and Finnair...any of these getting big. All of these will be gone before the major players will. Scandinavia will be dominated by Norwegian. In Russia...only one major player: Aeroflot.


Europe may sound like a "unity", they are none of that. Remember most wars have started in Europe. Name mergers like we have seen in the US will be less prevalent in Europe. Air France liveries will never dominate AMS. Americans are more pragmatic in business.
The name splintering in Europe will continue just to stroke ego and pride. I can see the names Brussels Airlines, SAS, maybe Austrian disappear simply because the marketing brand is not that strong to begin with.
It's all about marketability with a healthy dose of ego and pride...
 
SonaSounds
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:54 pm

ro1960 wrote:
This has been rumored in various threads recently. This seems to be a confirmation.

(Sorry I can't go behind the paywall so if someone can summarize the article, that would be great).

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/71733-eurowings-brussels-to-merge-by-end-2020?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook


Basically the article is just reiterating what has been said before. Merger is expected to take place in 2020, but there are "technical complications which must be resolved first" before this can happen. The article cites technological infrastructure, labor agreements, etc. It doesn't really say anything new.
 
EddieDude
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:45 pm

American 767 wrote:
KLM and Iberia still have chances to survive, although wholly owned by Air France and British Airways respectively.

KL is not wholly owned by AF. There is a holding company called Air France KLM Group which owns all (?) of AF and a certain percentage of KL. KL also has other local investors.

IB is not wholly owned by BA either. There is a holding company called International Airline Group which is the majority or sole equityholder (not sure) of BA and IB.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
LJ
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:24 pm

Keegan wrote:
VLM went under at the end of August this year. After this merger, there will no longer be a Belgian airline, so to speak.


There is still Air Belgium (though as ACMI operator only) anf TUI Belgium.
 
pompos
Posts: 100
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:25 pm

Is it really set in stone that a merger/integration of Brussels and Eurowings will lead into removal of the Brussels Airlines brand? While Eurowings and Brussels might become a single organisational entity, LH might keep the Brussels brand alive. Happens in many industries; same product sold through different brands (e.g. Opel and Vauxhall)
 
santi319
Posts: 1003
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Re: EW and SN to merge by end-2020

Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:39 pm

OMG people here on a-net really are d-bags eh??
SN may need to be swallowed by LH to survive, but this can be a huge opportunity for someone to start a new Brussels-based carrier. With everyone in Europe pretty much on IAG, AF/KLM or LH, competition will be diluted and you can totally base a new airline based in BRU to compete with all the other hubs. BRU has a centric location for connections as well as excellent rail connections, not to mention their catchment area is almost 3 countries long.

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