Deltabravo1123
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Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:52 pm

So we all know that airlines book hotels for crew members when they stay the night away from their home-base. But it got me thinking, instead of paying $200-$400 a night or even more depending on the city, would it be be more economical at all for airlines to lease a house or apartment for these crew members? Depending on the city here in America, I'm thinking a monthly rent could reasonably be between $1000 to $3000 a month, which surely beats $200-$400 every night. Of course, the figures are just estimates and subjective according to where we're speaking about. A lot of factors I guess can play a role in calculating this as well - how many crewmembers are there a night, frequency of the flight, etc.

Hypothetical speaking, if an airline serves a market where there would be less than 10 affiliated people spending the night, an apartment could be feasible. A 3 bedroom apartment fitted with 2 twin beds in each room bedroom and an additional one in the living area could fit 7-8 crewmembers. It might not be ideal, but I was interested in hearing others thoughts.
 
micstatic
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:56 pm

Sharing rooms seems cheap and something the workers wouldn’t accept.
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B757Forever
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:57 pm

Hotels are full service. There is transportation from the airport, the room is cleaned each day, the linens are washed and there is a restaurant. Who would do all that in said house?
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Deltabravo1123
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:57 pm

micstatic wrote:
Sharing rooms seems cheap and something the workers wouldn’t accept.


But they share hotel rooms......
 
Deltabravo1123
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:00 pm

[url][/url]
B757Forever wrote:
Hotels are full service. There is transportation from the airport, the room is cleaned each day, the linens are washed and there is a restaurant. Who would do all that in said house?


Good point, I didn't even consider that.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:01 pm

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
So we all know that airlines book hotels for crew members when they stay the night away from their home-base. But it got me thinking, instead of paying $200-$400 a night or even more depending on the city, would it be be more economical at all for airlines to lease a house or apartment for these crew members? Depending on the city here in America, I'm thinking a monthly rent could reasonably be between $1000 to $3000 a month, which surely beats $200-$400 every night. Of course, the figures are just estimates and subjective according to where we're speaking about. A lot of factors I guess can play a role in calculating this as well - how many crewmembers are there a night, frequency of the flight, etc.

Hypothetical speaking, if an airline serves a market where there would be less than 10 affiliated people spending the night, an apartment could be feasible. A 3 bedroom apartment fitted with 2 twin beds in each room bedroom and an additional one in the living area could fit 7-8 crewmembers. It might not be ideal, but I was interested in hearing others thoughts.


Could it work? Sure! What kind of issues would hinder this would be the most obvious. When factoring the union contractual agreements, all would need to be agreed upon. For example, would the pilots and flight attendants agree to it?

Also, as another poster brought up. What kinds of costs are associated with changing the bedding and cleaning the apartment be? An outside contract for cleaning would come into play.
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WPvsMW
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:04 pm

The OP proposes dormitories. Too much liability. US operators would never do it.
Employees do it all the time. The term is "crash pad".
 
SWALUV
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:05 pm

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
micstatic wrote:
Sharing rooms seems cheap and something the workers wouldn’t accept.


But they share hotel rooms......



Most airlines don't do this anymore, either for training or on layovers.
 
Deltabravo1123
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:08 pm

SWALUV wrote:
Deltabravo1123 wrote:
micstatic wrote:
Sharing rooms seems cheap and something the workers wouldn’t accept.


But they share hotel rooms......



Most airlines don't do this anymore, either for training or on layovers.


So every single crew member would have their own hotel room?
 
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FLIHGH
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:10 pm

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
micstatic wrote:
Sharing rooms seems cheap and something the workers wouldn’t accept.


But they share hotel rooms......

SkyWest puts their pilots in double occupancy rooms for training, and I think other regionals do the same for flight attendant training. But that's it- otherwise we all get our own rooms. There would be a huge uptick in fatigue callouts if that was changed. Imagine the fight between an FO and captain when one wants a 64 degree room and the other wants a 75 degree room...
 
PPVRA
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:15 pm

Airlines don’t pay retail prices on hotel rooms. They get steep discounts and use services like apihotels.com to manage all that.
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ScottB
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:15 pm

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
Depending on the city here in America, I'm thinking a monthly rent could reasonably be between $1000 to $3000 a month, which surely beats $200-$400 every night. Of course, the figures are just estimates and subjective according to where we're speaking about.


I think you're overestimating what airlines generally pay for hotel rooms for their crew. Given that they're guaranteeing the rooms will be paid-for more-or-less 365 days/year, it's more likely the airline pays under $100/night per room in all but the most expensive markets. Plus the air crews are likely to be well-behaved since trashing a hotel room might lead to negative consequences for their employment. Others have pointed out the various hidden costs of an airline running its own rooming house as well -- staffing for housekeeping, maintenance, management, etc. In some jurisdictions, the airline might have to comply with local laws about hotels or rooming houses.

It's also likely that in the sort of arrangement you're suggesting, the airline would want to own the property, given that most landlords would probably be uncomfortable with a house being used as a hotel and the inconvenience of relocating a facility like this for the airline at lease end.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:19 pm

What if the airline would just pay the crew extra to stay in a leased house instead of a hotel? The extra money could be a motive for the crew to agree to this, and it would still be cheaper for the airline. If you take the difference between hotel rooms and a leased house and split it, half for the airline and half for the crew, they both win.

Of course it would mean the crew would have some tasks to do in the house. Keeping it tidy, getting food on the table, etc. All right, but they get paid for that. Money makes up for a lot of inconvenience, and there's a lot of money to be saved on hotels to pay the crews.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:23 pm

PAN AM Used to own a NYC Hotel for decades I believe, or was that BA??? But even than companies tend to find it better to not go to far afield from their core strengths. Airlines used to own Hotel Chains, Rental Cars and Tour Companies.
 
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:30 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
PAN AM Used to own a NYC Hotel for decades I believe, or was that BA??? But even than companies tend to find it better to not go to far afield from their core strengths. Airlines used to own Hotel Chains, Rental Cars and Tour Companies.


It was BA and I believe there still have exclusive use of it, however sold it a few years sort of a sale and lease back arrangement
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:32 pm

Unless its NYC, Tokyo, London, Moscow, Seoul they don't pay $200 a night. The airlines buy large numbers of rooms and get huge volume discounts. They pay a fraction of what you pay as a retail walk-up customer. If they wanted to save money they could open their own hotel like B6 has in Orlando, but i am guessing its not a huge savings as they haven't expanded that idea.
 
deebee278
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:36 pm

As I recall, one or more large USA based cargo airlines leased homes to house crews back in the 80s. Personally, I flew for a small commuter airline during that same time period where we had to 'double up'. Later, I flew for a 'big' regional that actually had a dorm style setup when in for training that was located in an airport hangar. Most maintenance is done at night...you get the picture...earplugs!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:42 pm

I for one would love it, and have tried to convince my employer to do so.
I do have certain standards though, cleaning needs to be included, only 1 pilot per room, wifi and kitchen provided. The other pilots were in favour of the idea too.

With my currently setup, I travel up to 3 months in a row, staying in hotels all the time. Most of the time, we even stay at one base for 3 or 4 weeks in a row. IMHO, hotels, even really good ones, have some glaring faults. The restaurants a dead boring and all so similar. The menus are so uninteresting! Pricey too. And sometimes, I just want to avoid interacting with any more strangers for the day. I would far prefer to cook my own food. So far, that was only possible at an Intercontinental where they booked us in the suites that came with kitchens.
 
cschleic
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:46 pm

Maybe a condo with housekeeping services but even that is limited....no food service and transportation would be harder. As an indication of crew volume at some hotels, the Doubletree at Sea-Tac has a separate check in counter just for them so you know there's volume pricing involved.

Plus...houses or otherwise would require a capital outlay (and associated fixed costs) vs. hotels that are strictly variable cost. Given fluctuating flight schedules, delays, etc., they'd be planning for local hotels anyway. Probably only works if there's enough critical mass, say at the HQ location with training and other employees regularly coming and going, to support apartments or a hotel as noted above.
 
2175301
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:53 pm

I think the emotional release from getting away from work and the company is very important. Hotels allow you to do that. There then also is no liability on the Airline for anything the crew does (did the Airline serve someone too many drinks in the Housing bar?).

Have a great day,
 
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SFOA380
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:54 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Unless its NYC, Tokyo, London, Moscow, Seoul they don't pay $200 a night. The airlines buy large numbers of rooms and get huge volume discounts. They pay a fraction of what you pay as a retail walk-up customer. If they wanted to save money they could open their own hotel like B6 has in Orlando, but i am guessing its not a huge savings as they haven't expanded that idea.


You can add SF to this list. Most of what’s being talked about here would never be acceptable to a union airline. Most flag carriers are union and their contracts provide for downtown 4-star hotels on international layovers. This is not the case with every airline, but most.
 
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Door4Right
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:56 pm

I flew for a series of small-potatoes charter companies in the 80s and 90s and there were a couple that did this. 4BR 2BA setups if I remember correctly for a 3-4 crewmember airplane. It was always clean but we certainly didn't clean it ourselves. There was always a crew car available for our use too.

I know of at least one charter/sked combo company doing it in the present day.
 
johns624
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:58 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Of course it would mean the crew would have some tasks to do in the house. Keeping it tidy, getting food on the table, etc. All right, but they get paid for that. Money makes up for a lot of inconvenience, and there's a lot of money to be saved on hotels to pay the crews.
When and how are they supposed to do this? Many have short layovers with no time to do it. Also, where are they going to get the transportation to go shopping for food. Who has 2 hours to sit there and do laundry?
 
airbazar
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:17 pm

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
So we all know that airlines book hotels for crew members when they stay the night away from their home-base. But it got me thinking, instead of paying $200-$400 a night or even more depending on the city, would it be be more economical at all for airlines to lease a house or apartment for these crew members?


I don't know if it still happens but this used to be quite normal up until about 20-30 years ago. Some airlines owned or leased entire apartment buildings for their crew at foreign out-stations where they had a large presence. Think Northwest in Tokyo for example.
I couldn't find anything online but here's one old article that references NW's housing in Tokyo.
https://www.apnews.com/cd2b3b715c42c3a8c5d29144df55f6d7
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:24 pm

The ALPA Hotel Committees would laugh themselves silly over this idea. Yes, every line has a hotel committee, answerable to the MEC and membership, who works with the company and visits and approves hotels. Things like security, meal options, transport, safety and cost all go into decision.

At corporate, we had a dim bulb who thought it would be a great idea in Paris—rent an apartment. First swap-out of crews and no maid servicing—it was back to the Marriott Champs Elysee at €400 per night. It was done at the Masters tournament at one time for lack of rooms, possibly better nowadays. We’d just reposition to ATL or SAV.

GF
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:26 pm

many smaller airlines do this. One of my first rented a house in Key West with 4 bedrooms and 2x a week maid service. Employees just had to make their own bed up once they arrived, and put their used towels & bedding by the wash once done.
xx
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:26 pm

johns624 wrote:
When and how are they supposed to do this? Many have short layovers with no time to do it. Also, where are they going to get the transportation to go shopping for food. Who has 2 hours to sit there and do laundry?


On short layovers they usually don't go to a hotel either, they stay at the airport. However after a long haul flight you got a long layover, mostly 2 or 3 days or at least 24 hours. That's what this is about.

If the leased house is in a built-up area there's usually a supermarket or something similar within walking distance, so no need for transportation.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:27 pm

Leasing a house in order to use it as a hotel is against most residential zoning. There are battles with airbnb in many neighborhoods, and that’s where the owner wants to use it as a hotel. But renting it out to a commercial entity that would then use it as a hotel? No city would allow that...
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:41 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
PAN AM Used to own a NYC Hotel for decades I believe, or was that BA??? But even than companies tend to find it better to not go to far afield from their core strengths. Airlines used to own Hotel Chains, Rental Cars and Tour Companies.


Both JAL and ANA to certain extent still own some hotels, although with a smaller global footprint nowaday. JAL still hold a minority share in Hotel Okura Nikko (Hotel Okura being the majority shareholder), and you can still find Hotel Nikko in many places (Most of them are in Japan, but there's one in San Francisco, and a few scattered all around SE Asia (i.e. Hanoi, HCMC, Bali) and mainland China. For ANA it's a joint venture between them and Intercontinental Hotels (i.e. which is why Intercontinental Hotels in Japan are "ANA Intercontinental", or Crowne Plazas being "ANA Crowne Plaza", etc.).

P.S. Maybe it's simply cheaper to have that large corporate contract for major ports? Those hotel rooms are occupied by set(s) of crew rotating in and out anyway. Plus if airline lease housing, the airline would have to be responsible for the upkeep of those properties ultimately, creating yet another separate departments within the airline (aka more overhead), along with tons of liability issues. Cheaper to simply "outsource" everything to hotels.
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Deltabravo1123
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:15 pm

Interesting to hear that some airlines used to do this. I guess it just goes to show how strict union and civil regulations have become. I'm in flight school currently, and will be starting with a regional soon, and I for one would probably enjoy a hotel over this dorm-like house setup I described. However, like others have said, if it was a house nicely kept up with a contracted cleaning service, I would not mind that at all. Thank you all for the input.
 
mikejepp
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:37 pm

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
Interesting to hear that some airlines used to do this. I guess it just goes to show how strict union and civil regulations have become. I'm in flight school currently, and will be starting with a regional soon, and I for one would probably enjoy a hotel over this dorm-like house setup I described. However, like others have said, if it was a house nicely kept up with a contracted cleaning service, I would not mind that at all. Thank you all for the input.


You're going to be a professional with dozens of lives in your hands and a decades long career that likely took years and tens of thousands of dollars to obtain and that many are not capable of doing. You need the mindset where you're treated as such. Expect more and hold yourself to a higher standard... you're not some college kid being rewarded with the opportunity to fly for an airline. You are skilled pilot providing your high level and highly sought after skills, demand to be compensated and treated as such.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:59 pm

I would actually think that this is done by at least Delta in NYC...leasing apartments along the same bus route coming from JFK. When PK flew to JFK, they likely used the Roosevelt Hotel, managed by the airline since 1979 and fully owned since 1999.
 
n6238p
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:24 pm

Crew member here, this is a terrible idea.

My first airline was a scheduled pt. 135 operator. We had a station with crew housing as opposed to hotel rooms and it was by no means anything I would want to deal with ever again. Money savings aside, everything else absolutely sucked. Walls in apartments are thin, you're not always going to get along with your fellow crew members, people smell, linens smell, food isn't always available, good luck finding a gym, good luck finding any solitude. I think non-crew members forget that although this career is exciting, its still a job. At the end of the work day you need to decompress and a lot of times need to be left alone. If someone told me I need to live in the same house as a bunch of strangers for the next 4 days, I'd start reconsidering this career. There is a reason for hotel rooms, it isn't just a cost problem. Cleaning and making up the bed? That ain't my job, it's not my stuff and I'm not getting paid to do it. How do I get to this house/apartment? Do we have transportation or do we have to figure that one out too? I'm not driving a company vehicle unless I'm getting paid to do it.

Crash pads are different. Ask anyone in them if they actually enjoy being in a crashpad. No one likes their crashpad unless they can't stand their SO.
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Deltabravo1123
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:44 pm

mikejepp wrote:
Deltabravo1123 wrote:
Interesting to hear that some airlines used to do this. I guess it just goes to show how strict union and civil regulations have become. I'm in flight school currently, and will be starting with a regional soon, and I for one would probably enjoy a hotel over this dorm-like house setup I described. However, like others have said, if it was a house nicely kept up with a contracted cleaning service, I would not mind that at all. Thank you all for the input.


You're going to be a professional with dozens of lives in your hands and a decades long career that likely took years and tens of thousands of dollars to obtain and that many are not capable of doing. You need the mindset where you're treated as such. Expect more and hold yourself to a higher standard... you're not some college kid being rewarded with the opportunity to fly for an airline. You are skilled pilot providing your high level and highly sought after skills, demand to be compensated and treated as such.


Trust me, I'll hold my career and responsibilities in extremly high regards. It's already taken me a lot to get where I am right now, and I'm simply thankful that I've been given the opportunity to do what I've always dreamed of. At the same time, I'm not becoming a pilot just to stay in a luxury hotel with amenities that I'll never use, and to act overly-privileged like some feel the need to do. I'm becoming a pilot because I love flight, I love to travel, and I'm satisfied by the little things in life. Of course, I wouldn't want to stay at a crumby motel on my layovers, but I also won't (and don't) feel the need to demand a 4-star hotel and push my accomplishments into the spotlight. I will be providing my high level of expertise to get people safely from A to B, and to improve my quality of life at home - not when I'm on the road (or air lol). I will, however, always make sure I'm treated with the due diligence and the respect I deserve.
 
YellowJ
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:48 pm

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
SWALUV wrote:
Deltabravo1123 wrote:

But they share hotel rooms......



Most airlines don't do this anymore, either for training or on layovers.


So every single crew member would have their own hotel room?


Yes usually. There is a vlogger on youtu-- who works for WN. She has her own room on every layover.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:58 pm

Not in the airline industry, but a frequent business traveler.

NO WAY.

When I'm traveling on business—which is what airline crews are doing at every layover—I'm always exhausted by the end of the "work day" (which likely includes happy hour and/or dinner in addition to the actual work day). All I want is a private room with my own bed and bathroom, and maybe an uncrowded bar to have a beer if I have the time. I don't want to deal with other people sharing my space or talk to anyone.

It's not the same at all as renting a house, which is great fun on vacation with my family, but which would be a nightmare on business travel.
 
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:05 am

UpNAWAy wrote:
PAN AM Used to own a NYC Hotel for decades I believe, or was that BA??? But even than companies tend to find it better to not go to far afield from their core strengths. Airlines used to own Hotel Chains, Rental Cars and Tour Companies.


The Roosevelt in NY is owned by Pakistan Airlines. Although I don’t know how many Pakistani flights take advantage of this at NY area airports.
 
SWALUV
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:08 am

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
SWALUV wrote:
Deltabravo1123 wrote:

But they share hotel rooms......



Most airlines don't do this anymore, either for training or on layovers.


So every single crew member would have their own hotel room?



Outside of a very airlines, most airlines already provide each crew member their own hotel room. My carrier does this through training to the line. Shared rooms really started ending (at the regionals) for training once the pilot shortage became a large issue.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:16 am

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
Interesting to hear that some airlines used to do this. I guess it just goes to show how strict union and civil regulations have become. I'm in flight school currently, and will be starting with a regional soon, and I for one would probably enjoy a hotel over this dorm-like house setup I described. However, like others have said, if it was a house nicely kept up with a contracted cleaning service, I would not mind that at all. Thank you all for the input.


And this shows exactly why the pilot shortage will never happen in the volumes predicted. You’ll fit in perfect at Skywest (Skypest). Hope you never need protection from the company there...


That said, I’m 99% sure most (if not all) labor contracts would not allow this. The only place it might work is a non-union shop (Skypest) and it would only spark a large (and needed) union drive
From my cold, dead hands
 
Virtual737
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:21 am

mikejepp wrote:
You're going to be a professional with dozens of lives in your hands and a decades long career that likely took years and tens of thousands of dollars to obtain and that many are not capable of doing. You need the mindset where you're treated as such. Expect more and hold yourself to a higher standard... you're not some college kid being rewarded with the opportunity to fly for an airline. You are skilled pilot providing your high level and highly sought after skills, demand to be compensated and treated as such.


I agree with what you say. I just wonder if you are one of those that changes the tune to "pilots are just human and we all make mistakes" when a huge error is made.

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
Trust me, I'll hold my career and responsibilities in extremly high regards. It's already taken me a lot to get where I am right now, and I'm simply thankful that I've been given the opportunity to do what I've always dreamed of. At the same time, I'm not becoming a pilot just to stay in a luxury hotel with amenities that I'll never use, and to act overly-privileged like some feel the need to do. I'm becoming a pilot because I love flight, I love to travel, and I'm satisfied by the little things in life. Of course, I wouldn't want to stay at a crumby motel on my layovers, but I also won't (and don't) feel the need to demand a 4-star hotel and push my accomplishments into the spotlight. I will be providing my high level of expertise to get people safely from A to B, and to improve my quality of life at home - not when I'm on the road (or air lol). I will, however, always make sure I'm treated with the due diligence and the respect I deserve.


Respect.
 
tonystan
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Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 am

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
mikejepp wrote:
Deltabravo1123 wrote:
Interesting to hear that some airlines used to do this. I guess it just goes to show how strict union and civil regulations have become. I'm in flight school currently, and will be starting with a regional soon, and I for one would probably enjoy a hotel over this dorm-like house setup I described. However, like others have said, if it was a house nicely kept up with a contracted cleaning service, I would not mind that at all. Thank you all for the input.


You're going to be a professional with dozens of lives in your hands and a decades long career that likely took years and tens of thousands of dollars to obtain and that many are not capable of doing. You need the mindset where you're treated as such. Expect more and hold yourself to a higher standard... you're not some college kid being rewarded with the opportunity to fly for an airline. You are skilled pilot providing your high level and highly sought after skills, demand to be compensated and treated as such.


Trust me, I'll hold my career and responsibilities in extremly high regards. It's already taken me a lot to get where I am right now, and I'm simply thankful that I've been given the opportunity to do what I've always dreamed of. At the same time, I'm not becoming a pilot just to stay in a luxury hotel with amenities that I'll never use, and to act overly-privileged like some feel the need to do. I'm becoming a pilot because I love flight, I love to travel, and I'm satisfied by the little things in life. Of course, I wouldn't want to stay at a crumby motel on my layovers, but I also won't (and don't) feel the need to demand a 4-star hotel and push my accomplishments into the spotlight. I will be providing my high level of expertise to get people safely from A to B, and to improve my quality of life at home - not when I'm on the road (or air lol). I will, however, always make sure I'm treated with the due diligence and the respect I deserve.


You may not behave “over-privileged” but you certainly sound incredibly conceited and dare I say completely naive of the industry at a whole,

It sounds like you are actually looking towards your own financial gain and how you can fill your pot by agreeing to such an arrangement away from hotels. Fact of the matter is you will work with strangers every day, you do not want to share a room or indeed any shared space with strangers for extended periods of time off an aircraft, it could result in negative CRM, difficult situations and significant headaches for management. There are also duty hour/fatigue limitations also to take into account. What if that stranger you met in your briefing earlier that morning is a heavy snorer and now you are sharing a room or a thin walled private accommodation? You won’t be fit for duty the following morning.

Are you suggesting you do a “crew shop” down the local supermarket each night you arrive in a new town too before a big house clean up the following morning before leaving? Perhaps you have to make the beds and clean the bathrooms for the next crew, that’s great even less time to sleep!

I work for one of the worlds largest global airlines, I fly to some rather iffy places (and many wonderful ones too). My airlines asset protection (security’s team) is one of the finest. They make sure we stay in the safest hotels around the world in order to protect us from other threats. We simply would not get that in private accommodations.

And finally, we’re no on holiday, it’s work, a job and it will slowly dawn on you too the longer you fly! If we stay in nice 4 or 5 star hotels it’s because we’re lucky enough that our airline recognizes that we are away from family and friends and often during holidays and significant family events. We deserve to be in nice places because let’s face it the rest of the rewards are lacking these days.

Don’t sell your worth away on some fanciful notion of your romance for flight. It will wear off and you’ll have nothing else left!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
Deltabravo1123
Topic Author
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:32 am

Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:45 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
And this shows exactly why the pilot shortage will never happen in the volumes predicted. You’ll fit in perfect at Skywest (Skypest). Hope you never need protection from the company there


Did I ever say I'll be at SkyWest? No. If all goes as planned I'll be at Piedmont. Thanks for (not) asking. You imply unions are a good thing, but sometimes all they do is build up people's ignorance and ego's until they finally reach the point such as you have - assuming and making inconsiderate responses, with no regard to the mindset others have for themselves. I won't need protection from a union-less airline because I won't put myself in that position. If only the shortage of pilots was based on attitudes like yours, then the regionals would really definitely be in deep shit. Move along.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 3931
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:48 am

Even us on the ramp (mainline airline) are guaranteed a single occupancy room when we are out of station for training or temporary assignment in another station. The only exception in our contract to allow double rooms is under an emergency situation where hotel supply is limited. I've never once shared a room with a coworker.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 3931
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:50 am

Deltabravo1123 wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
And this shows exactly why the pilot shortage will never happen in the volumes predicted. You’ll fit in perfect at Skywest (Skypest). Hope you never need protection from the company there


Did I ever say I'll be at SkyWest? No. If all goes as planned I'll be at Piedmont. Thanks for (not) asking. You imply unions are a good thing, but sometimes all they do is build up people's ignorance and ego's until they finally reach the point such as you have - assuming and making inconsiderate responses, with no regard to the mindset others have for themselves. I won't need protection from a union-less airline because I won't put myself in that position. If only the shortage of pilots was based on attitudes like yours, then the regionals would really definitely be in deep shit. Move along.


Wee one, you have a lot to learn. Once you get a good piping by these wonderful entities we call "airlines" you will appreciate the union. Don't knock it until you've been through a layoff or two.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
maverick4002
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:57 am

UpNAWAy wrote:
PAN AM Used to own a NYC Hotel for decades I believe, or was that BA??? But even than companies tend to find it better to not go to far afield from their core strengths. Airlines used to own Hotel Chains, Rental Cars and Tour Companies.


BA has/had one in Manhattan. I ended up meeting an FA out one night at a bar and we went back to the hotel. BA had the entire building if I remember correctly.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1954
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:58 am

The only time I've ever seen airlines leasing houses is at new station openings and seasonal stations. There are a handful of homes in ACK and MVY that get leased out every year for the staff on TDY.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
Brickell305
Posts: 699
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:59 am

ikramerica wrote:
Leasing a house in order to use it as a hotel is against most residential zoning. There are battles with airbnb in many neighborhoods, and that’s where the owner wants to use it as a hotel. But renting it out to a commercial entity that would then use it as a hotel? No city would allow that...


Just a point, the airline would not be using the leased house as a hotel seeing as they wouldn't be charging their own employees to stay there.
 
DeltaPrince
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:05 pm

Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:02 am

Great idea. Let's take cost-cutting even further...

How about we have all passengers share the same beverage cup? Chug your drink and then pass the cup back to the flight attendant to be refilled for the next passenger.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1966
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:19 am

AA's contract rate for hotels in Phoenix is about $30 a night. I don't think you could do much of anything for less than that.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2103
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Airlines leasing houses instead of booking hotel rooms

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:19 am

n6238p wrote:
No one likes their crashpad unless they can't stand their SO.


I've talked to crew who actually "reposition" a few days early for that reason.

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