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YYZLGA
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:29 pm

GSM605 wrote:
SLCUT2777 wrote:
I wouldn’t be so dismissive of any of the cities you mention specifically (or many others by inference). Many Europeans have done the usual US tourist Meccas and are looking at different destinations. Although I too was surprised when I first read this thread about CHS, in hindsight maybe not. CHS is a popular vacation spot from the Midwest and presumably the East Coast. People rave about its beauty and charm so a 2x weekly flight may not be such a stretch, particularly if you consider timing with cruises and business and cargo.

Even here in Cincinnati, we are seeing more and more Europeans visiting during summer. They are being drawn by the city, it’s brewing history and for it being the starting point for Kentucky’s Bourbon trail (not to mention the nearby thoroughbred horse industry). There’s business and industry here too with multiple ties to Europe.

I’m sure the same can be said about other so-called second tier cities. Seasonal frequencies with the right equipment can be pulled off. I’m not suggesting that service announcements are imminent for CVG, STL or others but the world is getting smaller. New more economical to operate aircraft are now available and I expect we’ll be seeing more of these sort of “surprise” destinations in the future.


Very good points. I think for international tourism, it's all about finding a niche. As I mentioned, British people are fascinated by American Southern culture, which makes CHS an attractive destination. Marketed well, I certainly think Bourbon and horses could be a strong sell for Kentucky. Music is certainly an attraction for Tennessee. I could also see some other destinations becoming significant European tourism destinations given the popular European fascination with Native American culture. Perhaps ABQ? Many Americans take these sorts of things for granted, but to Europeans they're very exotic. The problem for a city like STL is that it doesn't have an obvious unique cultural selling point.
 
incitatus
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:31 pm

Arion640 wrote:

5.20pm is one of the less busy times at Heathrow for departures (when is Heathrow not busy though?) so no surprise this flight is being sloted in around here.


There is another reason to have such a late departure. It can pile up a large number of unique 1-connection itineraries, creating more alternatives that did not exist before. It will attract a lot more passengers than a 10 am departure.
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777PHX
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:13 pm

axiom wrote:
777PHX wrote:
steeler83 wrote:
As for that chart about the largest markets without TATL service, someone in CMH can easily drive to CLE (Icelandair), PIT (WW, Condor, or soon BA), or CVG (DL) to hop on a TATL flight. Kansas City on the other hand is all by itself. The question there is whether the local economy can sustain seasonal or year-round seasonal service. My understanding is both MCI and STL are stagnant. I know we've been saying that for years about PIT, and through its universities (Pitt, Carnegie Mellon) and hospitals (UPMC et al) it has emerged as a burgeoning eds, meds, and tech hub to lure transatlantic flights.


STL gets a lot of shit, but it actually has a rather healthy local economy. Much moreso than some of the recent additions BA has made.


Indeed, what does the BA route planning team even know? :roll:


:roll:

I'm not questioning BA's route planning ability. I am pointing out that STL has a larger local economy than New Orleans, Nashville, Austin, Pittsburgh, Charleston and Indianapolis yet those cities are willing to pony up the cash, so they get the route.
 
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stl07
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:18 pm

axiom wrote:
777PHX wrote:
steeler83 wrote:
As for that chart about the largest markets without TATL service, someone in CMH can easily drive to CLE (Icelandair), PIT (WW, Condor, or soon BA), or CVG (DL) to hop on a TATL flight. Kansas City on the other hand is all by itself. The question there is whether the local economy can sustain seasonal or year-round seasonal service. My understanding is both MCI and STL are stagnant. I know we've been saying that for years about PIT, and through its universities (Pitt, Carnegie Mellon) and hospitals (UPMC et al) it has emerged as a burgeoning eds, meds, and tech hub to lure transatlantic flights.


STL gets a lot of shit, but it actually has a rather healthy local economy. Much moreso than some of the recent additions BA has made.


Indeed, what does the BA route planning team even know? :roll:

They know that STL isn't going to pay them mega-millions to subsidize their route.
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BobbyPSP
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:27 pm

tkoenig95 wrote:
Can we expect the belly cargo to do well considering Boeing and other manufacturing firms in the CHS area?


Ding ding ding. We have a winner. First thing I thought of. I can see a lot of last minute priority cargo, not to mention staff from so many suppliers.

Use the data at hand and this happens.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:02 am

DeltaRules wrote:
What's BA going to do with the airplane the rest of the week, though?

That's a question that this flight *answers*, not asks. ;)



malev2012 wrote:
FCAFLYBOY wrote:
BA has been flying the 744 LHR-AUS all summer, I believe it ends October 26th and reverts to the 777 for the winter schedule.

Thank goodness it reverts. It was the worst TATL flight I have ever taken 10 hrs on a old 744 with crappy vents, no power, no IFE, uncomfortable seats etc.

But but but but but, it's a 744, so that means it's mega super awesome in every conceivable way for every damn person!

~signed,
99% of AvGeeks


axiom wrote:
777PHX wrote:
STL gets a lot of shit, but it actually has a rather healthy local economy. Much moreso than some of the recent additions BA has made.

Indeed, what does the BA route planning eam even know? :roll:

Right? I mean, they've only struck pure gold with every US addition they've made from LHR over the last half decade.... they're clearly just throwing darts at a board.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:16 am

How about BA consider SAF or ABQ for its next North American destination? Santa Fe has a profile similar to CHS.
 
Andy33
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:48 am

MartijnNL wrote:
malev2012 wrote:
Thank goodness it reverts. It was the worst TATL flight I have ever taken 10 hrs on a old 744 with crappy vents, no power, no IFE, uncomfortable seats etc.

Was it really airborne for ten hours? Austin - LHR is less than 5,000 miles. I have enjoyed several U.S. West Coast - Europe flights that took less time.

The KLM 747-400 that flew me from San Francisco to Amsterdam last April was 28 years old. Every seat had IFE, but there was only one powerport in the entire aircraft! It was in a 'cabin' used by the purser. Guess where my phone was charging? ;)

But no IFE on BA's 747-400's? That's not ideal. The seats on KLM were quite comfortable by the way. I enjoyed every minute of the journey.


BA's 744s have always had IFE, so this is puzzling. Maybe it wasn't working at the seat malev2012 occupied - that can happen with any airline,and even on brand new planes, but it scarcely seems credible that it wasn't working at all on the entire plane.
 
SCQ83
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:55 am

777PHX wrote:
I'm not questioning BA's route planning ability. I am pointing out that STL has a larger local economy than New Orleans, Nashville, Austin, Pittsburgh, Charleston and Indianapolis yet those cities are willing to pony up the cash, so they get the route.


Is STL's economy today larger than Austin's (specially if you are considering San Antonio - yes I know those are different metro areas - in the lot)?
 
Cubsrule
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:21 am

777PHX wrote:
axiom wrote:
777PHX wrote:

STL gets a lot of shit, but it actually has a rather healthy local economy. Much moreso than some of the recent additions BA has made.


Indeed, what does the BA route planning team even know? :roll:


:roll:

I'm not questioning BA's route planning ability. I am pointing out that STL has a larger local economy than New Orleans, Nashville, Austin, Pittsburgh, Charleston and Indianapolis yet those cities are willing to pony up the cash, so they get the route.


I dunno. Aren’t the upgrades to places like AUS and BNA at least circumstantial evidence that it isn’t about the cash?
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jfklganyc
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:42 am

I’m shocked.

And I don’t like to make predictions or be a naysayer… But this flight isn’t going to work.

I fly to Austin all the time. I fly to Charleston all the time.

Two cities are in two different categories.

Unless they have some specific commitment from Boeing or the US military (The latter is doubtful) I can’t see how this works.

But I do give them credit for being creative
 
SunsetLimited
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:48 pm

AUS was quickly upgraded to daily and with larger a/c. 744/77W is now the norm.

MSY went from 4 to 5X weekly and sees the 789 fairly regularly (twice last week, in fact).

BNA is going to daily not long after launch.

PIT...heck, it would not surprise me to see it go to at least 5X weekly.

FLL/SJC seem to be doing well enough.

The only recent flop in the U.S market has been OAK.

CHS should work out fine, seasonally. It’s a popular area with a lot to offer tourists.
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malev2012
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:42 pm

Andy33 wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
malev2012 wrote:
Thank goodness it reverts. It was the worst TATL flight I have ever taken 10 hrs on a old 744 with crappy vents, no power, no IFE, uncomfortable seats etc.

Was it really airborne for ten hours? Austin - LHR is less than 5,000 miles. I have enjoyed several U.S. West Coast - Europe flights that took less time.

The KLM 747-400 that flew me from San Francisco to Amsterdam last April was 28 years old. Every seat had IFE, but there was only one powerport in the entire aircraft! It was in a 'cabin' used by the purser. Guess where my phone was charging? ;)

But no IFE on BA's 747-400's? That's not ideal. The seats on KLM were quite comfortable by the way. I enjoyed every minute of the journey.


BA's 744s have always had IFE, so this is puzzling. Maybe it wasn't working at the seat malev2012 occupied - that can happen with any airline,and even on brand new planes, but it scarcely seems credible that it wasn't working at all on the entire plane.

We had really strong head winds and and didn't push back from gate for nearly an hour so 10 hours trapped in a plane that should be in Victorville or Roswell.

If it's a completely full flight and some seats don't have working IFE it means for some passengers no IFE. Not to mention a broken PA where passengers couldn't hear announcements. If I wanted to fly a LCC I could have flown DI for less.
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Atlwarrior
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:51 pm

I live in Myrtle Beach, and have been monitoring interest in this flight. The response is great. In fact I’m going to purchase a ticket soon. I guarantee more will flights be added because of demand before the flight start. This flight should get a lot of tourist traffic from the South for Christian tours connecting to Israel as well.
 
gunnerman
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:02 pm

The 788 will have 214 seats in these cabins:

Club World (35)
World Traveller Plus (25)
World Traveller (154)
 
Jshank83
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:26 pm

Cubsrule wrote:

I dunno. Aren’t the upgrades to places like AUS and BNA at least circumstantial evidence that it isn’t about the cash?


My argument would be that it is initially about the cash to get them to the airport. Most of the cities thrown around could support it, cash jumps the line to get you the flight first as they take delivery of 787s. I don't think anyone (well at least me) doubted AUS/BNA/etc could support the flight. I am sure if they had unlimited slots/787s to go around there are plenty of routes that would be happy to add, but they don't so they can only add them so fast. Incentives get you to the front of the line.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:06 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I dunno. Aren’t the upgrades to places like AUS and BNA at least circumstantial evidence that it isn’t about the cash?


My argument would be that it is initially about the cash to get them to the airport. Most of the cities thrown around could support it, cash jumps the line to get you the flight first as they take delivery of 787s. I don't think anyone (well at least me) doubted AUS/BNA/etc could support the flight. I am sure if they had unlimited slots/787s to go around there are plenty of routes that would be happy to add, but they don't so they can only add them so fast. Incentives get you to the front of the line.


That's fair, but BWI aside BA does not seem to be a carrier who focuses on long-term subsidies. So, it's hard for me to believe that there is significant line jumping going on. I don't have the sense that BA will take a $2MM subsidy to start City A for $5MM in profit over 10 years if City B has no subsidy but would yield $10MM profit over 10 years. I realize that math is tricky, but you get the idea.
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Jshank83
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:50 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I dunno. Aren’t the upgrades to places like AUS and BNA at least circumstantial evidence that it isn’t about the cash?


My argument would be that it is initially about the cash to get them to the airport. Most of the cities thrown around could support it, cash jumps the line to get you the flight first as they take delivery of 787s. I don't think anyone (well at least me) doubted AUS/BNA/etc could support the flight. I am sure if they had unlimited slots/787s to go around there are plenty of routes that would be happy to add, but they don't so they can only add them so fast. Incentives get you to the front of the line.


That's fair, but BWI aside BA does not seem to be a carrier who focuses on long-term subsidies. So, it's hard for me to believe that there is significant line jumping going on. I don't have the sense that BA will take a $2MM subsidy to start City A for $5MM in profit over 10 years if City B has no subsidy but would yield $10MM profit over 10 years. I realize that math is tricky, but you get the idea.


I think most of the recent adds and speculated, could be next adds, basically are in the same pot for 10 year outlook. So there isn't significant line jumping, as you say. It is just asking a few cities or so, what they have to offer to get the route started, whoever has the most gets it. Like I don't think BNA/PIT jumped 10 cities because they had a bigger subsidy. They probably were in the mix with 2 or 3 other cities and offered more than those. There is a little wiggle room, if one is ahead a bit for 10 year outlook then the one behind might have to pay a little more up front as a tie breaker, but I don't think it is a significant difference between them.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:00 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

My argument would be that it is initially about the cash to get them to the airport. Most of the cities thrown around could support it, cash jumps the line to get you the flight first as they take delivery of 787s. I don't think anyone (well at least me) doubted AUS/BNA/etc could support the flight. I am sure if they had unlimited slots/787s to go around there are plenty of routes that would be happy to add, but they don't so they can only add them so fast. Incentives get you to the front of the line.


That's fair, but BWI aside BA does not seem to be a carrier who focuses on long-term subsidies. So, it's hard for me to believe that there is significant line jumping going on. I don't have the sense that BA will take a $2MM subsidy to start City A for $5MM in profit over 10 years if City B has no subsidy but would yield $10MM profit over 10 years. I realize that math is tricky, but you get the idea.


I think most of the recent adds and speculated, could be next adds, basically are in the same pot for 10 year outlook. So there isn't significant line jumping, as you say. It is just asking a few cities or so, what they have to offer to get the route started, whoever has the most gets it. Like I don't think BNA/PIT jumped 10 cities because they had a bigger subsidy. They probably were in the mix with 2 or 3 other cities and offered more than those. There is a little wiggle room, if one is ahead a bit for 10 year outlook then the one behind might have to pay a little more up front as a tie breaker, but I don't think it is a significant difference between them.


Agreed, and I think BA’s city choices point toward a focus on future potential. I think STL was probably a stronger TATL market than AUS, BNA, and MSY five years ago. I don’t think it will be in 2030.
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neomax
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:08 pm

Why are Brits so fascinated with “Southern culture?” As somebody living in FL and thus who has frequently been through Georgia and the Carolinas, the people are nice but I wouldn’t visit just to see “southern culture” and definitely wouldn’t fly from the UK just for that. No offense to Europeans but they have pretty bad taste if that’s the best thing they can think to do. But hey, maybe it’s just my inner FL ranting.
 
gzm
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:10 pm

Sounds interesting but it will work best for Londoners and Charlestonians, I believe. For the few of us who happen to have relatives in the area, I am not so sure. For one thing it means not having to go via La Guardia,Norfolk,Charlotte,Atlanta etc. but on the other hand, the Internet is full of good deals and cheaper tickets. I would still have to go via LHR. It all depends on the price,as you know.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:36 pm

777PHX wrote:
I'm not questioning BA's route planning ability. I am pointing out that STL has a larger local economy than New Orleans, Nashville, Austin, Pittsburgh, Charleston and Indianapolis yet those cities are willing to pony up the cash, so they get the route.


The point is that the route has absolutely nothing to do with the local economy at the destination. It's about British tourists going on vacation. This isn't (in any meaningful sense) a route for business travelers.

neomax wrote:
Why are Brits so fascinated with “Southern culture?” As somebody living in FL and thus who has frequently been through Georgia and the Carolinas, the people are nice but I wouldn’t visit just to see “southern culture” and definitely wouldn’t fly from the UK just for that. No offense to Europeans but they have pretty bad taste if that’s the best thing they can think to do. But hey, maybe it’s just my inner FL ranting.


A lot of British people feel the same way about British culture. People are just excited by things that are different from what they're used to. That's especially true if they feel like they've seen it in TV or movies.
 
Silverstreak
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:00 pm

I don't mean to insult - but what attraction does St. Louis have to a European?
 
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stl07
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:34 pm

Silverstreak wrote:
I don't mean to insult - but what attraction does St. Louis have to a European?

Business (Monsanto/Bayer, Purina, Worldwide tech, RGA, etc)
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Arion640
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:45 pm

neomax wrote:
Why are Brits so fascinated with “Southern culture?” As somebody living in FL and thus who has frequently been through Georgia and the Carolinas, the people are nice but I wouldn’t visit just to see “southern culture” and definitely wouldn’t fly from the UK just for that. No offense to Europeans but they have pretty bad taste if that’s the best thing they can think to do. But hey, maybe it’s just my inner FL ranting.


This flight will get feed from Europe so it won’t just be British onboard.
 
SCQ83
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:50 pm

Silverstreak wrote:
I don't mean to insult - but what attraction does St. Louis have to a European?


The only time you hear about St Louis in Europe if when that "the most dangerous cities in the world" chart is released every year.
 
777PHX
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:48 pm

Silverstreak wrote:
I don't mean to insult - but what attraction does St. Louis have to a European?


For tourism? None. But STL fights above its weight in terms of business traffic compared to comparably sized US cities.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:40 pm

On a conference call with my sales team yesterday (non aviation related), their manager who happens to live down that way, was super excited about this new offering and that shocked me that the buzz had got that far that fast, however even he noted that this was designed more for Europe- USA rather than the other way round. But was interested in potentially trying the route next year.
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Lexy
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:51 pm

777PHX wrote:
Silverstreak wrote:
I don't mean to insult - but what attraction does St. Louis have to a European?


For tourism? None. But STL fights above its weight in terms of business traffic compared to comparably sized US cities.



That's debatable. Highly debatable actually.
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finnishway
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:48 am

I think there will be more new cities with surprises from BA.

Columbus is in the middle of Ohio within driving distance from Cleveland and Cincinnati. Flights to Columbus would basically serve the whole state of Ohio. There has been news earlier that Columbus has been on BA's list of possible new destinations.

San Antonio I could see working very well even though BA flies to Austin already. Metro area population supports this and the city itself has been growing rapidly.

Buffalo and Rochester are just a short drive away from each other, so according to the anna.aero indirect traffic data there would be over 90,000 indirect passengers to Europe from that area. That doesn’t include potential passengers from Canada. That flight could easily be operated with A321neo for example.

Another interesting would be a combination of Oklahoma City & Tulsa area which also have about 90,000 indirect passengers to Europe.
 
finnishway
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:31 pm

I wouldn't be surprised even if BA started summer seasonal flights to Maine.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:15 pm

777PHX wrote:
Silverstreak wrote:
I don't mean to insult - but what attraction does St. Louis have to a European?


For tourism? None. But STL fights above its weight in terms of business traffic compared to comparably sized US cities.


Based on what data? There just isn't that much traffic. When KC was the Bayer agribusiness HQ they didn't need a tatl flight. While it has been in Raleigh,cthey werent using the LHR flight much. When TW flew LGW & CDG there wasn't much local traffic. It really is just a mid size city, shrinking one at that, with little TATL traffic at fares that support service.
 
Jshank83
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:22 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
777PHX wrote:
Silverstreak wrote:
I don't mean to insult - but what attraction does St. Louis have to a European?


For tourism? None. But STL fights above its weight in terms of business traffic compared to comparably sized US cities.


Based on what data? There just isn't that much traffic. When KC was the Bayer agribusiness HQ they didn't need a tatl flight. While it has been in Raleigh,cthey werent using the LHR flight much. When TW flew LGW & CDG there wasn't much local traffic. It really is just a mid size city, shrinking one at that, with little TATL traffic at fares that support service.


The region isn't shrinking (like PIT/CLE, who are already smaller and have TATL flights), only the city itself is, albeit it is not growing fast, and O&D is up around 4% this year so flight demand is growing still. But I'll save everyone from really getting into this population/lets argue about our cities match that gets old fast.
 
SCQ83
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:28 pm

Regarding finnishway's ideas, I could see BA on Buffalo, Columbus and Portland, ME.

San Antonio is too close to AUS and doesn't have the millennial/tech/global allure of AUS. Oklahoma/Tulsa I can't see it either.
 
SunsetLimited
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:59 pm

Lots of speculation regarding other smaller cities that could be added - problem is, there are only so many 788’s to go around. How many more are expected to be added to the fleet? I don’t see them cutting anything in order to to add flights to BUF, SAT, ABQ, etc.
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Cunard
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:52 pm

One more B788 will delivered to British Airways next month and it will be the final B788 to be delivered to the airline.

I thought that I had read somewhere that British Airways had revised their order for the B787-10 and were going to add a further four B788 to the fleet instead.
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777PHX
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:29 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
777PHX wrote:
Silverstreak wrote:
I don't mean to insult - but what attraction does St. Louis have to a European?


For tourism? None. But STL fights above its weight in terms of business traffic compared to comparably sized US cities.


Based on what data? There just isn't that much traffic. When KC was the Bayer agribusiness HQ they didn't need a tatl flight. While it has been in Raleigh,cthey werent using the LHR flight much. When TW flew LGW & CDG there wasn't much local traffic. It really is just a mid size city, shrinking one at that, with little TATL traffic at fares that support service.


The PDEW numbers to Europe for STL someone was kicking around a couple months back showed there's more traffic to Europe than any city that has recently gotten BA service.

There's also more than one large company in the STL area so I have no clue where you're getting this nonsense about Bayer being some sort of measuring stick.
 
canyonblue17
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:29 pm

evank516 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
canyonblue17 wrote:

By far the most money is on Palm Beach Island which is almost 50 miles north of Fort Lauderdale but only three miles from PBI. And anyone who has lived in South Florida for more than a few years knows - much of the growth (and wealth) here continues to move north up the coast. BA - first goes to MIA. Growth goes north, BA goes to FLL. Growth goes north....BA goes to.......you would expect PBI. And from my experience wealthy travelers will pay quite a premium for convenience (not having to drive 50 miles) and saving time (flying non-stop).


Sorry, but no. That's ridiculous. Maybe in the 90s it was true, but the growth is evenly spread and and the wealth is heavily in Miami these days.


Have to agree with MAH on this one. I've been to that area many times. The more affluent communities are what I named before: Boca, Delray Beach, Boynton Beach, Lake Worth, Parkland, etc. While Palm Beach in and of itself is very affluent, the majority of the money is sandwiched in between PBI and FLL. Once you get to Delray Beach, PBI and FLL are roughly equidistant so there's really no need for a PBI flight.


Clearly you have never been to Palm Beach Gardens, Singer Island, Jupiter or Jupiter Island. The four towns I just named - added to the Town Of Palm Beach, make up some of the wealthiest areas in South Florida - and they are all north of PBI. Ironic also, if you check the cities with largest populations not served directly to Europe (as stated in an earlier graph) - PBI sits next in line behind CHS.
negative ghostrider the pattern is full
 
MAH4546
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:40 pm

canyonblue17 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Sorry, but no. That's ridiculous. Maybe in the 90s it was true, but the growth is evenly spread and and the wealth is heavily in Miami these days.


Have to agree with MAH on this one. I've been to that area many times. The more affluent communities are what I named before: Boca, Delray Beach, Boynton Beach, Lake Worth, Parkland, etc. While Palm Beach in and of itself is very affluent, the majority of the money is sandwiched in between PBI and FLL. Once you get to Delray Beach, PBI and FLL are roughly equidistant so there's really no need for a PBI flight.


Clearly you have never been to Palm Beach Gardens, Singer Island, Jupiter or Jupiter Island. The four towns I just named - added to the Town Of Palm Beach, make up some of the wealthiest areas in South Florida - and they are all north of PBI. Ironic also, if you check the cities with largest populations not served directly to Europe (as stated in an earlier graph) - PBI sits next in line behind CHS.


I’ve been to all of them. Very wealthy areas. None of them have the absolute number of wealthy residents that Miami does - Miami is the fourth largest urban area in the U.S.
a.
 
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TheLion
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:44 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Regarding finnishway's ideas, I could see BA on Buffalo, Columbus and Portland, ME.

San Antonio is too close to AUS and doesn't have the millennial/tech/global allure of AUS. Oklahoma/Tulsa I can't see it either.


Agree with these choices, especially if they get the A321LR. I do think San Antonio would work however, even if it would likely cannibalise Austin.

Cunard wrote:
One more B788 will delivered to British Airways next month and it will be the final B788 to be delivered to the airline.

I thought that I had read somewhere that British Airways had revised their order for the B787-10 and were going to add a further four B788 to the fleet instead.


That B787-10 revision you mention may be the four frames converted from their B787-9 order to -8s, the last one of which will be delivered next month as their 12th and final -8 for now. Or perhaps what you read is more recent?
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 955
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:26 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Regarding finnishway's ideas, I could see BA on Buffalo, Columbus and Portland, ME.

San Antonio is too close to AUS and doesn't have the millennial/tech/global allure of AUS. Oklahoma/Tulsa I can't see it either.


BA CHS will be gone in the first week of the next global recession never to return in our lifetimes. Without tourism this flight is 100% dead in the water. For some to say CHS is some growing economic mecca like AUS is just not true. The Brits have lost thier minds wasting an LHR slot on such a small US metro even with tourism there. Even DY/MT don’t bother. Good luck though!

As for Columbus, it won’t attract Cleveland because Pittsburgh is closer. That’s a pretty large population chunk of the state. Also, Columbus couldn’t even attract WW/FI. I’d like to see how PIT does first.

Buffalo? Oklahoma City? Is BA trying to make money?

When I start to see silly routes I know the next recession is near. We’re getting close.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:58 am

Jshank83 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
777PHX wrote:

For tourism? None. But STL fights above its weight in terms of business traffic compared to comparably sized US cities.


Based on what data? There just isn't that much traffic. When KC was the Bayer agribusiness HQ they didn't need a tatl flight. While it has been in Raleigh,cthey werent using the LHR flight much. When TW flew LGW & CDG there wasn't much local traffic. It really is just a mid size city, shrinking one at that, with little TATL traffic at fares that support service.


The region isn't shrinking (like PIT/CLE, who are already smaller and have TATL flights), only the city itself is, albeit it is not growing fast, and O&D is up around 4% this year so flight demand is growing still. But I'll save everyone from really getting into this population/lets argue about our cities match that gets old fast.


The fact PIT has so much TATL service yet in this decade is the fastest shrinking consolidated US metro with over 2 million people tells you population isn’t everything.
 
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stl07
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:54 am

Lexy wrote:
777PHX wrote:
Silverstreak wrote:
I don't mean to insult - but what attraction does St. Louis have to a European?


For tourism? None. But STL fights above its weight in terms of business traffic compared to comparably sized US cities.



That's debatable. Highly debatable actually.

You are right... I'd say STL offers some things for tourism like the arch. ;)
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
777PHX
Posts: 962
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:51 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:

Based on what data? There just isn't that much traffic. When KC was the Bayer agribusiness HQ they didn't need a tatl flight. While it has been in Raleigh,cthey werent using the LHR flight much. When TW flew LGW & CDG there wasn't much local traffic. It really is just a mid size city, shrinking one at that, with little TATL traffic at fares that support service.


The region isn't shrinking (like PIT/CLE, who are already smaller and have TATL flights), only the city itself is, albeit it is not growing fast, and O&D is up around 4% this year so flight demand is growing still. But I'll save everyone from really getting into this population/lets argue about our cities match that gets old fast.


The fact PIT has so much TATL service yet in this decade is the fastest shrinking consolidated US metro with over 2 million people tells you population isn’t everything.


No, it's not. PIT Is paying significant subsidies to BA and Condor. They've already chased DL out the market and WOW is more than likely gone for good.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8869
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Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:53 am

sevenair wrote:
New global links for the new global Britain. Well done BA!

Don’t bring politics into this
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:59 am

maps4ltd wrote:
BA doesn't even serve Charlotte, a major Oneworld airline hub, yet it's now going to CHS.

Honestly, I would've thought that a leisure route like this would go into LGW, alongside Orlando and Punta Canada and the like.


I too would have thought also LGW as it serves the generally more leisure routes by BA, but do any 787 operate there for BA? It may be a base/maintenance topic.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1165
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:01 pm

After the fleet reorganisation during Rod Eddington's days, the only widebodies at LGW were the 777-200ERs, I think that there are now 13 of them. Now that 10 seats across have been crammed in, a 336-seat 3-cabin 772 is far too big so the 214-seat 788 from LHR will be used for CHS.
 
Beatyair
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:01 pm

Makes sense - American and British Airways are closely aligned. BA is just flying to Americans Hubs as Virgin flys several flights to Delta’s hub in Atlanta.
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:04 pm

777PHX wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
777PHX wrote:

For tourism? None. But STL fights above its weight in terms of business traffic compared to comparably sized US cities.


Based on what data? There just isn't that much traffic. When KC was the Bayer agribusiness HQ they didn't need a tatl flight. While it has been in Raleigh,cthey werent using the LHR flight much. When TW flew LGW & CDG there wasn't much local traffic. It really is just a mid size city, shrinking one at that, with little TATL traffic at fares that support service.


The PDEW numbers to Europe for STL someone was kicking around a couple months back showed there's more traffic to Europe than any city that has recently gotten BA service.

There's also more than one large company in the STL area so I have no clue where you're getting this nonsense about Bayer being some sort of measuring stick.


I used Bayer because another post noted Monsanto. What people don't understand is that it isn't just total numbers. Sure maybe STL has more raw numbers but were they just tourists? When STL had nonstop LGW & CDG (seasonal) service, there wasn't that much local on the flights and they didn't perform that well. There just isn't that much business demand across the pond from STL. It's just a reality of the city.
 
Trololzilla
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:15 pm

^ To be fair, you're also considering the business climate from 15+ years ago. A lot can (and has) changed since then.

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