neutronstar73
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:19 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Hahaha I see that this thread has been "cleaned up". Don't want to upset the establishment now do we?


I see it, too! Can't upset the establishment, like you said.

I stand by my previous comments: Ryanair had a duty to throw this guy off the plane. He was disruptive, and made other passengers uncomfortable. The lady should not have to move to another seat.
 
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vanguard737
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:32 pm

MassAppeal wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Why do so many video an incident instead of getting involved and ending it?



what could the passengers have done? only the fa's could have solved this issue. The flight crew should have pulled a united on him.


Yeah the only way to deal with someone who's using hurtful words is to beat them until they lose consciousness. That's way better, right?


Not to go off topic but you are completely incorrect. No one "beat" Dr. Dao until he "lost consciousness." He resisted arrest while the police attempted to remove him from his seat and then he hit his head on an armrest when the police lost their grip on him.

That said, this incident is appalling. That racist, sad excuse of an old man should have been booted from the flight - period.
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Bongodog1964
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:35 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Bongodog1964 wrote:
[...]the clearly racist and unacceptable incident occurred on the ground in Spain onboard an Irish registered aircraft, they duly reported it to Essex police after arrival at STN. What can Essex police do about an incident that occurred in another Country ?[...]

Since it happened onboard an Irish-registered aircraft, isn't it considered as happening on Irish soil?


Whilst on the ground with the door open in a Foreign Country the Foreign Country has jurisdiction.
 
Amsterdam
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:36 pm

JayBCNLON wrote:
This incident is blown totally out of proportion. Comparable scenes are common in road traffic. Just because it’s aviation and the name “Ryanair” is involved it receives this kind of attention. There were 178 other passengers on board who just wanted to the get from A to B on time. The cabin crew balanced the needs of everyone on board. I agree with SCQ83: Europe’s history and present are different from those in the Americass therefore racism takes on different forms.


This is bullshit
Because on the road you can get away.

An aircraft is a closed environment.
You are condamned to each other.
Completely different situation.
You dont seem to underatand that.
Meeting each other at the toilets again can be terrifying for that woman.
This guy even literally threatend to attack her.

An old disabled women is abused verbaly and threatend phisically in an closed space.

But you dont get it at all.
Whats wrong with you?
 
9w748capt
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:57 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
JayBCNLON wrote:
This incident is blown totally out of proportion. Comparable scenes are common in road traffic. Just because it’s aviation and the name “Ryanair” is involved it receives this kind of attention. There were 178 other passengers on board who just wanted to the get from A to B on time. The cabin crew balanced the needs of everyone on board. I agree with SCQ83: Europe’s history and present are different from those in the Americass therefore racism takes on different forms.


This is bullshit
Because on the road you can get away.

An aircraft is a closed environment.
You are condamned to each other.
Completely different situation.
You dont seem to underatand that.
Meeting each other at the toilets again can be terrifying for that woman.
This guy even literally threatend to attack her.

An old disabled women is abused verbaly and threatend phisically in an closed space.

But you dont get it at all.
Whats wrong with you?


It's insane isn't it? But that's the new world we live in. Remember though, Donald has nothing to do with it!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... kes-trump/
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:43 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Zaf wrote:
We should listen to both sides before we judge this guy or the crew. There is probably more to this than what we see in the video. Just calling someone ugly or black in an argument doesn't make him a racist.


Ok then Donald.

Disgusting what this world is coming to. Just horrific. But this is the new normal for those of us who aren't white.


Stop with that bullshit.
Whites are racially targeted as well it's just it is not news worthy.
And don't make one guys action a statement against entire race. Fu**** up and shows your racist aspirations.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:58 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Zaf wrote:
We should listen to both sides before we judge this guy or the crew. There is probably more to this than what we see in the video. Just calling someone ugly or black in an argument doesn't make him a racist.


Ok then Donald.

Disgusting what this world is coming to. Just horrific. But this is the new normal for those of us who aren't white.


Stop with that bullshit.
Whites are racially targeted as well it's just it is not news worthy.
And don't make one guys action a statement against entire race. Fu**** up and shows your racist aspirations.


Oh yeah you're right! Remember all those innocent white men killed by the cops? All those white people that had the cops called on them for entering their own apartment? It's nothing about an entire race - but let's not sit here and pretend that a black man yelling racist insults on a plane would've been treated the same.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:05 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
As far as actual racism by an airline is concerned, Air France is by far the worst. They have a policy of automatically refusing boarding to Moroccans regardless of whether they require a transit visa and not allowing them to board their flights to Istanbul, Hong Kong or Brazil. I'm still trying to get my money back from them after two months of being bounced from one incompetent department to another.


Morrocan is a nationality not a "race".
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:07 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
They screwed up, this idiot should be spending some time in a cell whilst contemplating his life choices.

Have seen it myself on other carriers, there was a very similar incident I witnessed on a WizzAir flight where the crew even continued to serve a racially abusive passenger with more alcohol.


He should have been removed from the flight with no refund but unless he physically assaulted her then there's no reason for an arrest. Hurting someone's feelings isn't a crime.
 
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flyingsikh
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:15 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
They screwed up, this idiot should be spending some time in a cell whilst contemplating his life choices.

Have seen it myself on other carriers, there was a very similar incident I witnessed on a WizzAir flight where the crew even continued to serve a racially abusive passenger with more alcohol.


He should have been removed from the flight with no refund but unless he physically assaulted her then there's no reason for an arrest. Hurting someone's feelings isn't a crime.


Refusing to listen to the crew sure in hell can get you thrown in a cell.

Pretty sure the crew member in the video told him stop talking and quiet down multiple times.

Either way...had this have been an old black guy trying to verbally rough up a disabled old Caucasian women...the discusssion would have been about race/religion/culture/refusing to listen to the crew yadda yadda yadda
Today gives us a chance to love, to work, to play, and to look up at the stars.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:15 pm

Aesma wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
As far as actual racism by an airline is concerned, Air France is by far the worst. They have a policy of automatically refusing boarding to Moroccans regardless of whether they require a transit visa and not allowing them to board their flights to Istanbul, Hong Kong or Brazil. I'm still trying to get my money back from them after two months of being bounced from one incompetent department to another.


Morrocan is a nationality not a "race".


So ... does institutional anti-people-of-a-certain-nation behaviour score better or worse than anti-people-of-a-certain-race, according to you? It's the same thing in the example he's giving and you know it!
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:25 pm

9w748capt wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

Ok then Donald.

Disgusting what this world is coming to. Just horrific. But this is the new normal for those of us who aren't white.


Stop with that bullshit.
Whites are racially targeted as well it's just it is not news worthy.
And don't make one guys action a statement against entire race. Fu**** up and shows your racist aspirations.


Oh yeah you're right! Remember all those innocent white men killed by the cops? All those white people that had the cops called on them for entering their own apartment? It's nothing about an entire race - but let's not sit here and pretend that a black man yelling racist insults on a plane would've been treated the same.


Look at FBI statistics and stop race baiting.
I can only hope that no matter what race douchebags like this will be punished but it doesn't always happen and FYI keep calling entire race names and it will hit you back at some point. Why would people care if they are or not since they are called one anyway?

Judge people as nice/neutral/bad not by color/race/religion.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:38 pm

Somebody said something socially unacceptable on a plane. At the most there were some hurt feelings and the guy responsible got publicly shamed. I think people are overreacting. Air France is far more racist than Ryanair - it systematically denies boarding to Moroccan passengers, which is racism by the airline itself and nobody cares. I'd rather be able to catch my flight and have to deal with whatever idiot I end up next to rather than be left on the ground by an airline because of my nationality.
 
ubeema
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:18 am

Zaf wrote:
We should listen to both sides before we judge this guy or the crew. There is probably more to this than what we see in the video. Just calling someone ugly or black in an argument doesn't make him a racist.

Those who watched the video listened and heard a man verbally abusing an older lady, and being racially insensitive, he even reached towards the lady with his hand trying to shove her. Besides his bigoted attitude there is enough for an assault charge here. Please enlighten us what else would you like to hear. I would love to see your reaction while witnessing your parents or grand-parents being assaulted and insulted in the same circumstances.


peterinlisbon wrote:
Removing a passenger is going to require police presence and perhaps the removal of baggage, which would have inconvenienced all 180 or so passengers and delayed other flights during the day as well. No need for that unless this passenger refused to calm down and be quiet. As far as this guy is concerned he's been shamed publicly, which is an appropriate form of punishment for doing something that is socially unacceptable. He could also be liable for some kind of prosecution, I imagine.

The point is this scumbag violent outburst towards another passenger, and failure to heed the crew instructions should have been deemed a flight risk. People have been removed for far less. But like many you rationalize this pathetic behavior because it does not affect you personally. I see how outraged you feel by the way AF treated you and your family so you know how it feels when tables are turned.
 
guyanam
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:34 am

axiom wrote:
sbworcs wrote:
I wonder if the races of those involved had been reversed the situation would have been different?


What is this supposed to mean? These kinds of hypotheticals make no sense.



Black Jamaican man being abusive to a little old white lady. You know fully well how that would have ended.
 
ewt340
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:37 am

johns624 wrote:
Why do so many video an incident instead of getting involved and ending it?


Because if you don't have the proof, they would accuse the minority of playing the race card.

Anyway, there is no way of ending it apart from the crew calling the security to remove the man from the plane.
 
guyanam
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:40 am

PixelPilot wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Zaf wrote:
We should listen to both sides before we judge this guy or the crew. There is probably more to this than what we see in the video. Just calling someone ugly or black in an argument doesn't make him a racist.


Ok then Donald.

Disgusting what this world is coming to. Just horrific. But this is the new normal for those of us who aren't white.


Stop with that bullshit.
Whites are racially targeted as well it's just it is not news worthy.
And don't make one guys action a statement against entire race. Fu**** up and shows your racist aspirations.


Can you explain why that statement was racist. FACT. And when are whites targeted in the same way as blacks are. If a little old lady was being abused by a black man you know full well that the police would have been quickly called to arrest him.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:53 am

guyanam wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

Ok then Donald.

Disgusting what this world is coming to. Just horrific. But this is the new normal for those of us who aren't white.


Stop with that bullshit.
Whites are racially targeted as well it's just it is not news worthy.
And don't make one guys action a statement against entire race. Fu**** up and shows your racist aspirations.


Can you explain why that statement was racist. FACT. And when are whites targeted in the same way as blacks are. If a little old lady was being abused by a black man you know full well that the police would have been quickly called to shoot him.


FIFY
 
JayBCNLON
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:06 am

Amsterdam wrote:
JayBCNLON wrote:
This incident is blown totally out of proportion. Comparable scenes are common in road traffic. Just because it’s aviation and the name “Ryanair” is involved it receives this kind of attention. There were 178 other passengers on board who just wanted to the get from A to B on time. The cabin crew balanced the needs of everyone on board. I agree with SCQ83: Europe’s history and present are different from those in the Americass therefore racism takes on different forms.


This is bullshit
Because on the road you can get away.

An aircraft is a closed environment.
You are condamned to each other.
Completely different situation.
You dont seem to underatand that.
Meeting each other at the toilets again can be terrifying for that woman.
This guy even literally threatend to attack her.

An old disabled women is abused verbaly and threatend phisically in an closed space.

But you dont get it at all.
Whats wrong with you?


I think you’re using very strong language. In fact by the standards applied by you here I should feel “verbally abused” by you: you’re saying that my comment is “bullshit” and alluding that I am insane - just for voicing my opinion. I should report your post as it breaches a.net rules and I wouldn’t want to meet you at the toilet :)

No, seriously, as you can see in this post situations like these happen all the time. The situation on board was handled ok, everyone arrived safe and probably on time. No need to take further action or for this to make it into the news.
 
JayBCNLON
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:26 am

ubeema wrote:
Zaf wrote:
We should listen to both sides before we judge this guy or the crew. There is probably more to this than what we see in the video. Just calling someone ugly or black in an argument doesn't make him a racist.

Those who watched the video listened and heard a man verbally abusing an older lady, and being racially insensitive, he even reached towards the lady with his hand trying to shove her. Besides his bigoted attitude there is enough for an assault charge here. Please enlighten us what else would you like to hear. I would love to see your reaction while witnessing your parents or grand-parents being assaulted and insulted in the same circumstances.


peterinlisbon wrote:
Removing a passenger is going to require police presence and perhaps the removal of baggage, which would have inconvenienced all 180 or so passengers and delayed other flights during the day as well. No need for that unless this passenger refused to calm down and be quiet. As far as this guy is concerned he's been shamed publicly, which is an appropriate form of punishment for doing something that is socially unacceptable. He could also be liable for some kind of prosecution, I imagine.

The point is this scumbag violent outburst towards another passenger, and failure to heed the crew instructions should have been deemed a flight risk. People have been removed for far less. But like many you rationalize this pathetic behavior because it does not affect you personally. I see how outraged you feel by the way AF treated you and your family so you know how it feels when tables are turned.


I don’t think anything happened here that breaches any laws here in Spain, and Spain is the country where this “incident” took place. The flight arrived safely. The crew obviously assessed flight safety correctly. A Spanish Ryanair crew which Is usually a mix of Lithuanian/Latvian/Spanish/Latin American would not have handled this case differently if it had been a “Jamaican man and an old white lady”. People don’t get shot by the Guardia Civil on the basis of race as a daily occurrence, unlike in less civilized parts of the world. What happened wasn’t nice, but was handled appropriately and in the end everyone arrived safely. Case closed.
Last edited by JayBCNLON on Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:32 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
I don’t think anything happened here that breaches any laws in Spain


If your position is that she wasn't racially abused then you're probably right. I and lots of others would say otherwise.
 
JayBCNLON
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:44 am

Virtual737 wrote:
JayBCNLON wrote:
I don’t think anything happened here that breaches any laws in Spain


If your position is that she wasn't racially abused then you're probably right. I and lots of others would say otherwise.


Can you point to the clause in the Spanish code of law that was breached? It’s not up to me to have a position. There is the law - Spanish law in this case - and then there is the assessment of the crew. Other than that there is nothing.
Last edited by JayBCNLON on Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:49 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
Can you point to the clause in the Spanish code of law that was breached?


I can't and that's why I used the word "probably". I would be interested to hear the opinion of an expert in Spanish law though.

Regardless, his punishment in the public shaming is enough for me to think he got what he deserved. No need to take it further.
 
ubeema
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:03 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
I don’t think anything happened here that breaches any laws here in Spain, and Spain is the country where this “incident” took place. The flight arrived safely. The crew obviously assessed flight safety correctly. A Spanish Ryanair crew which Is usually a mix of Lithuanian/Latvian/Spanish/Latin American would not have handled this case differently if it had been a “Jamaican man and an old white lady”. People don’t get shot by the Guardia Civil on the basis of race as a daily occurrence, unlike in less civilized parts of the world. What happened wasn’t nice, but was handled appropriately and in the end everyone arrived safely. Case closed.

You seem to live in an island my friend. You can close the case that only you believe in.

Barcelona City Hall has now decided to take the case to the prosecutor in order to clarify exactly what happened, to identify the alleged aggressor and to locate possible witnesses, given that both the council and the prosecutor have a protocol in place for alleged hate crimes. Deputy Mayor Jaume Asens has taken to Twitter to criticize the “racist” behavior of the man, as well as the response by Ryanair, which was, he said, “unacceptable.”

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/10/23/in ... 51392.html
 
JayBCNLON
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:07 am

Virtual737 wrote:
JayBCNLON wrote:
Can you point to the clause in the Spanish code of law that was breached?


I can't and that's why I used the word "probably". I would be interested to hear the opinion of an expert in Spanish law though.

Regardless, his punishment in the public shaming is enough for me to think he got what he deserved. No need to take it further.


I totally agree with you that the public shaming of the guy is harsh punishment, indeed. I just hope that applicable EU General Data Protection Rules haven’t been breached by releasing this video likely without prior permisssion of all of the individuals in it. That could actually be a law that was breached.
Last edited by JayBCNLON on Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ubeema
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Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:07 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
JayBCNLON wrote:
I don’t think anything happened here that breaches any laws in Spain


If your position is that she wasn't racially abused then you're probably right. I and lots of others would say otherwise.


Can you point to the clause in the Spanish code of law that was breached? It’s not up to me to have a position. There is the law - Spanish law in this case - and then there is the assessment of the crew. Other than that there is nothing.

The burden is on you to prove otherwise. Investigation is well underway. It’s called hate crime. Authorities in Spain and U.K. are taking this very seriously.
 
JayBCNLON
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:16 am

Being part of a minority which sees a lot of hate crime I have a clear view of what it is .... and what it isn’t :).

That’s why I am saying I didn’t see anything that struck me as being handled wrong by the crew: they separated the parties, they executed the flight on time for everyone, they reported the incident on arrival to the authorities for them to take appropriate action.

What I did see is a likely breach of EU GDPR - General Data Protection Regulation. That also needs to be followed up with. Public shaming really is bypassing the legal system and going back to the Middle Ages.

My point for this forum is: it has nothing to do with Ryanair.
Last edited by JayBCNLON on Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ubeema
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:40 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
Being part of a minority which sees a lot of hate crime I have a clear view of what it is .... and what it isn’t :).

That’s why I am saying I didn’t see anything that struck me as being handled wrong by the crew: they separated the parties, they executed the flight on time for everyone, they reported the incident on arrival to the authorities for them to take appropriate action.

What I did see is a likely breach of EU GDPR - General Data Protection Regulation. That also needs to be followed up with.

My point for this forum is: it has nothing to do with Ryanair.

My friend you are now backtracking from your earlier statements and you are trying to confuse everyone. The case has already been referred to a prosecutor in Barcelona. Now you want to talk about GDPR? Start a new thread. To refresh your memory you said:
JayBCNLON wrote:
I don’t think anything happened here that breaches any laws here in Spain, and Spain is the country where this “incident” took place. The flight arrived safely. The crew obviously assessed flight safety correctly. A Spanish Ryanair crew which Is usually a mix of Lithuanian/Latvian/Spanish/Latin American would not have handled this case differently if it had been a “Jamaican man and an old white lady”. People don’t get shot by the Guardia Civil on the basis of race as a daily occurrence, unlike in less civilized parts of the world. What happened wasn’t nice, but was handled appropriately and in the end everyone arrived safely. Case closed.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:47 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
Being part of a minority which sees a lot of hate crime I have a clear view of what it is .... and what it isn’t :).


Straight question. How do you expect the average person on the street to comprehend what is and what isn't racist?

On one hand we have people claiming racism purely because of a withheld service and the fact that they happen to be black (several occurrences in threads on this forum.... probably locked) and on the other we have you, as a minority that sees a lot of hate crime, opining that a white man calling a black woman an ugly black bastard (isn't bastard specifically for a male?) isn't racist?

To put a stop to racism, first we all need to understand what it is. The above doesn't help.
 
JayBCNLON
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:48 am

Indeed, I have ia view of the incident itself, and i believe the case should be closed. And, again, I am saying that as a person belonging to a group that sees a lot of hate crime.

I also have a view of how the crew handled the situation, and I think they handled it correctly by referring it to authorities upon arrival, thereby focusing on the 178 other passengers.

Thirdly, I have the view that public shaming is circumventing the legal system, a return to the Middle Ages and a likely breach of EU GDPR.

And finally my principal view is that it has nothing to do with Ryanair and shaming the airline is wrong.
Last edited by JayBCNLON on Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:51 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
Thirdly, I have the view that public shaming is circumventing the legal system and a likely beach of EU GDPR.


GDPR applies to companies and their use of individuals personal data. An individual publicly naming this idiot would not be a breach of GDPR, nor would anyone posting a video of him in a public place.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8508
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:51 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
Indeed, I have ia view of the incident itself, and i believe the case should be closed. And, again, I am saying that as a person belonging to a group that sees a lot of hate crime.

I also have a view of how the crew handled the situation, and I think they handled it correctly by referring it to authorities upon arrival, thereby focusing on the 178 other passengers.

Thirdly, I have the view that public shaming is circumventing the legal system, a return to the Middle Ages and a likely breach of EU GDPR.

And finally my principal view is that it has nothing to do with Ryanair and shaming the airline is wrong.


The crew did not handle the incident correctly. It should have been reported to the Spanish police, as it happened on Spanish ground. The UK police has about nothing to do with it. That guy should have been booted of the plain there and than and put in the hands of the Spanish police.

But the main point is, the crew has the responsibility of protecting one passenger from the aggression of another passenger and they failed miserably. Passengers should not need to be defended by other passengers.

Proper public shaming of this guy is in order. I hope he has difficulties of showing his face.

I have to say that one can not make Donald responsible for this guy, I assume he is not a citizen of the USA. But there are Donald's friends in the UK, the right wing haters and brexitiers in the UK. Brexitiers seem to not understand why this "inferior foreign scum of black and brown people" have not disappeared overnight when they voted out of the EU. :sarcastic: The number of hate crimes are up in the UK and the hammer used on those people is not big enough.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1521
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:27 am

What I think is that this is a case of racism by an individual, not by the airline. Therefore it´s not the airlines fault and I think they handled it well. It´s not their job to enforce political correctness among the public. Their job is to get their passengers to their destination safely and with minimum disruption and they did that.

Air France, on the other hand, is selling tickets in Morocco and then denying boarding to Moroccan passengers even though they don't require transit visas to travel via Paris. This actually is a case of racism by an airline and it gets away with it, perhaps because Morocco doesn't have tabloids and the government cares more about tourist revenue than standing up for its own citizens.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:43 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
Air France, on the other hand, is selling tickets in Morocco and then denying boarding to Moroccan passengers even though they don't require transit visas to travel via Paris. This actually is a case of racism by an airline and it gets away with it, perhaps because Morocco doesn't have tabloids and the government cares more about tourist revenue than standing up for its own citizens.

OK, this is the 3rd time you're saying it, and I guess I'll take the bait.

This is the upmost BS: given the number of Moroccan and North African living in France, do you really believe Air France would deny them access??? That'd be excluding a good portion of customers. On top of being immoral and illegal (breach of contract).
And, do you even have any hard data to back that up? Unless (and it actually is just that), it's all made-up cause you have a grudge against Air France.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8508
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:46 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
What I think is that this is a case of racism by an individual, not by the airline. Therefore it´s not the airlines fault and I think they handled it well. It´s not their job to enforce political correctness among the public. Their job is to get their passengers to their destination safely and with minimum disruption and they did that.

Air France, on the other hand, is selling tickets in Morocco and then denying boarding to Moroccan passengers even though they don't require transit visas to travel via Paris. This actually is a case of racism by an airline and it gets away with it, perhaps because Morocco doesn't have tabloids and the government cares more about tourist revenue than standing up for its own citizens.


If you do condone racism on your airplane you are responsible. Protecting your customers against racist attacks has nothing to do with political correctness.

I do not know about Air France and Moroccan passengers, but that has absolut no bearing on this case. It is the typical defense of racist, to point to other racist actions, but each case stands on its own. RyanAir just did not make the grade.
 
gadFly
Posts: 33
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:36 pm

peterlisbon wrote: Air France, on the other hand, is selling tickets in Morocco and then denying boarding to Moroccan passengers even though they don't require transit visas to travel via Paris. This actually is a case of racism by an airline and it gets away with it, perhaps because Morocco doesn't have tabloids and the government cares more about tourist revenue than standing up for its own citizens.

Actually, your info is erroneous. No transit visa is required of Moroccan citizens. It is possible you are referring to third-country citizens. The French government is on good terms with the Moroccan government. This is quite a bit of fake news you are sharing. Any check on French consular websites will confirm that Morocco is not on the list of countries whose citizens must have a visa to get into France.
 
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Lilienthal
Posts: 142
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:38 pm

JayBCNLON wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:

This is bullshit
Because on the road you can get away.

An aircraft is a closed environment.
You are condamned to each other.
Completely different situation.
You dont seem to underatand that.
Meeting each other at the toilets again can be terrifying for that woman.
This guy even literally threatend to attack her.

An old disabled women is abused verbaly and threatend phisically in an closed space.

But you dont get it at all.
Whats wrong with you?


I think you’re using very strong language. In fact by the standards applied by you here I should feel “verbally abused” by you: you’re saying that my comment is “bullshit” and alluding that I am insane - just for voicing my opinion. I should report your post as it breaches a.net rules and I wouldn’t want to meet you at the toilet :)

No, seriously, as you can see in this post situations like these happen all the time..


Are you actually comparing his comment to a highly aggressive and abusive verbal assault by a man on his elderly female seat-neighbor in a cramped Ryanair cabin...?

You lost that argument already. Deal with it with some kind of decency, please...
 
Virtual737
Posts: 619
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:18 pm

He has now been named in mainstream British media. It was the leading story until the mailbomb story broke.
 
JayBCNLON
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:13 pm

Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:34 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
JayBCNLON wrote:
This incident is blown totally out of proportion. Comparable scenes are common in road traffic. Just because it’s aviation and the name “Ryanair” is involved it receives this kind of attention. There were 178 other passengers on board who just wanted to the get from A to B on time. The cabin crew balanced the needs of everyone on board. I agree with SCQ83: Europe’s history and present are different from those in the Americass therefore racism takes on different forms.


I strongly disagree with what you state, and stand by my statement.
It's only fair that certain behaviours are accompanied by a hefty price tag. And people need to see that this is can and will happen, and that the consequences and reverberations of said behaviours are multiple, and inconvenience more than one single person.
I don't agree with ignoring despicable actions so that everyone can merrily march off to their own little bubble with minimal hassle. I would want to see people being bothered by the inevitable that similar acts brings along consequences, including a delay if need be. What message are we giving our young ones? That you can get away with this...
Not my idea of civic society mate.


I did not comment on whether this is racism or not. It’s not for me to determine that and indeed this is not the discussion to be had on this forum or in this thread, which is titled „Ryanair accused of inaction towards racism“. I focus on whether the crew acted correctly, and I believe they did: they separated the parties, assessed the impact on flight safety, decided to execute the flight for all 180 passengers and then reported the incident and the individual in question to the appropriate authorities upon arrival. They obviously made the rights decision as the flight landed on time and safely. That’s all we can agree or disagree on in this forum in this thread. Whether it is racism or a hate crime can only be determined by the legal system and it cannot be discussed here in the civil aviation forum.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:12 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Aesma wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
As far as actual racism by an airline is concerned, Air France is by far the worst. They have a policy of automatically refusing boarding to Moroccans regardless of whether they require a transit visa and not allowing them to board their flights to Istanbul, Hong Kong or Brazil. I'm still trying to get my money back from them after two months of being bounced from one incompetent department to another.


Morrocan is a nationality not a "race".


So ... does institutional anti-people-of-a-certain-nation behaviour score better or worse than anti-people-of-a-certain-race, according to you? It's the same thing in the example he's giving and you know it!


Nonsense. If AF has such a policy (which I don't know) it's because they have had to fly people back that couldn't enter the country of destination, not because of their ethnicity ! Same ethnicity with, say, a French passport, wouldn't be an issue.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
airzona11
Posts: 1536
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:13 pm

There are millions of people flying daily. Every day more and more people have phones and social media capable of sharing this information. How would people have shared this 5 years ago? 10? 20?

Everything is captured today. The crew separated the parties and did their job to ensure a safe flight and not delay or cancel for the other 180+ people involved. In real time, what else was Ryanair or the crew to do?

9w748capt wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

Ok then Donald.

Disgusting what this world is coming to. Just horrific. But this is the new normal for those of us who aren't white.


Stop with that bullshit.
Whites are racially targeted as well it's just it is not news worthy.
And don't make one guys action a statement against entire race. Fu**** up and shows your racist aspirations.


Oh yeah you're right! Remember all those innocent white men killed by the cops? All those white people that had the cops called on them for entering their own apartment? It's nothing about an entire race - but let's not sit here and pretend that a black man yelling racist insults on a plane would've been treated the same.


The stats on cop shootings do not defend your argument. Nor does the reality of crime overall. I don't think your assumption that this was handled one way or the other based on the race of the person is valid.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8508
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:58 pm

airzona11 wrote:
There are millions of people flying daily. Every day more and more people have phones and social media capable of sharing this information. How would people have shared this 5 years ago? 10? 20?

Everything is captured today. The crew separated the parties and did their job to ensure a safe flight and not delay or cancel for the other 180+ people involved. In real time, what else was Ryanair or the crew to do?



Call the police and get that racist pig of the airplane and ban him from setting a foot on to an RyanAir airplane ever again. Passengers had to defend the old lady, the crew could not be bothered for quite a while.

It has nothing to do with millions of people flying and I hope phones and social media will catch more of those scums. Finally no he said she said, but a record.
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:05 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
Somebody said something socially unacceptable on a plane. At the most there were some hurt feelings and the guy responsible got publicly shamed. I think people are overreacting. Air France is far more racist than Ryanair - it systematically denies boarding to Moroccan passengers, which is racism by the airline itself and nobody cares. I'd rather be able to catch my flight and have to deal with whatever idiot I end up next to rather than be left on the ground by an airline because of my nationality.


Once flying BOS-CDG on AF I was seated next to a black Nigerian man (I saw his passport). Coming from Nigeria and probably living in the US, most likely he didn't speak French. Anytime the FA interacted with our row, she insisted in talking to him in French and just changed super annoyed to English when he made her know he didn't understand. Yet she would speak English directly to me (even if I speak French!). I found that quite ridiculous. Not sure if racism or dumbness.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1536
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:18 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
There are millions of people flying daily. Every day more and more people have phones and social media capable of sharing this information. How would people have shared this 5 years ago? 10? 20?

Everything is captured today. The crew separated the parties and did their job to ensure a safe flight and not delay or cancel for the other 180+ people involved. In real time, what else was Ryanair or the crew to do?



Call the police and get that racist pig of the airplane and ban him from setting a foot on to an RyanAir airplane ever again. Passengers had to defend the old lady, the crew could not be bothered for quite a while.

It has nothing to do with millions of people flying and I hope phones and social media will catch more of those scums. Finally no he said she said, but a record.


But what is the crime that he committed to have the cops come, delay the plane, etc? I am not defending him, I am just not sure that is feasible. Because that becomes a slippery slope that is a he said she said. Pursue charges after the flight, I just don't think that is feasible as you described before the flight takes off in real time observation by the crew.
 
YoungDon
Posts: 627
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:22 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
Somebody said something socially unacceptable on a plane. At the most there were some hurt feelings and the guy responsible got publicly shamed. I think people are overreacting. Air France is far more racist than Ryanair - it systematically denies boarding to Moroccan passengers, which is racism by the airline itself and nobody cares. I'd rather be able to catch my flight and have to deal with whatever idiot I end up next to rather than be left on the ground by an airline because of my nationality.


Once flying BOS-CDG on AF I was seated next to a black Nigerian man (I saw his passport). Coming from Nigeria and probably living in the US, most likely he didn't speak French. Anytime the FA interacted with our row, she insisted in talking to him in French and just changed super annoyed to English when he made her know he didn't understand. Yet she would speak English directly to me (even if I speak French!). I found that quite ridiculous. Not sure if racism or dumbness.


I've had a similar experience a couple of times in Paris (with white coworkers), but never on AF. The French don't seem to like speaking English, but in general it seems to be tolerated a bit more if you're white. Let's just say I'm not overly surprised.

As far as this incident goes, people over here talking about racial abuse as if its just a case of hurt feelings is nuts. It's harassment and shouldn't be tolerated. Additionally, as much as some would like to pretend otherwise, there was no proof or reasonable expectation of this guy acting right in the air after he had just made such a scene in the ground. The fact that Ryanair was willing to risk it and didn't remove him is appalling. Airlines have the responsibility to ensure that all passengers can get to their destinations in dignity and they failed spectacularly here. Ryanair is incredibly lucky that the man didn't physically attack that woman or another passenger inflight, and shouldn't be let off the hook just because the plane landed safely. That happened in spite of their inaction and was pure dumb luck. Someone with the gall to do what that man did can't be trusted on an airplane.
 
ubeema
Posts: 383
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Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:32 pm

airzona11 wrote:
But what is the crime that he committed to have the cops come, delay the plane, etc? I am not defending him, I am just not sure that is feasible.

Your question highlights the biggest misunderstanding shown by many in this thread. When you step in a commercial plane you are bound by the Contract of carriage not primarily by criminal/civil law. Although you may run afoul of both. See Ryanair articles 7 and 11
Because that becomes a slippery slope that is a he said she said. Pursue charges after the flight, I just don't think that is feasible as you described before the flight takes off in real time observation by the crew.
If you want to see how slippery things can be inside the tube, on your next flight direct the same epithets as this man against a flight attendant and see what happens.

ImageImage
 
airzona11
Posts: 1536
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:37 pm

ubeema wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
But what is the crime that he committed to have the cops come, delay the plane, etc? I am not defending him, I am just not sure that is feasible.

Your question highlights the biggest misunderstanding shown by many in this thread. When you step in a commercial plane you are bound by the Contract of carriage not primarily by criminal/civil law. Although you may run afoul of both. See Ryanair articles 7 and 11
Because that becomes a slippery slope that is a he said she said. Pursue charges after the flight, I just don't think that is feasible as you described before the flight takes off in real time observation by the crew.
If you want to see how slippery things can be inside the tube, on your next flight direct the same epithets as this man against a flight attendant and see what happens.

ImageImage


I am not sure the point... everything you posted shows it is up to the airline's judgment and I am stating that I don't see how in real time this was the worst decision for Ryanair to make.
 
neutronstar73
Posts: 792
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:57 pm

Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:26 pm

airzona11 wrote:
ubeema wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
But what is the crime that he committed to have the cops come, delay the plane, etc? I am not defending him, I am just not sure that is feasible.

Your question highlights the biggest misunderstanding shown by many in this thread. When you step in a commercial plane you are bound by the Contract of carriage not primarily by criminal/civil law. Although you may run afoul of both. See Ryanair articles 7 and 11
Because that becomes a slippery slope that is a he said she said. Pursue charges after the flight, I just don't think that is feasible as you described before the flight takes off in real time observation by the crew.
If you want to see how slippery things can be inside the tube, on your next flight direct the same epithets as this man against a flight attendant and see what happens.

ImageImage


I am not sure the point... everything you posted shows it is up to the airline's judgment and I am stating that I don't see how in real time this was the worst decision for Ryanair to make.


I see what you are trying to do but you are not that slick. Stop trying to deflect and defend what the guy did under the guise of "they had to get the airplane off the gate in time. Because I don't care about the racial epithets he spewed because they don't affect me, and who cares? It was just some old black lady, and her safety is not important enough to throw the abuser off the plane and 'inconvenience' people getting to their destination on time."

Stop playing games. Airlines, and I'm sure Ryanair, too, have yanked people off flights for less than what this guy did. That is not in dispute, and don't say "airlines' judgment".
 
JayBCNLON
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:13 pm

Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:56 am

airzona11 wrote:
ubeema wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
But what is the crime that he committed to have the cops come, delay the plane, etc? I am not defending him, I am just not sure that is feasible.

Your question highlights the biggest misunderstanding shown by many in this thread. When you step in a commercial plane you are bound by the Contract of carriage not primarily by criminal/civil law. Although you may run afoul of both. See Ryanair articles 7 and 11
Because that becomes a slippery slope that is a he said she said. Pursue charges after the flight, I just don't think that is feasible as you described before the flight takes off in real time observation by the crew.
If you want to see how slippery things can be inside the tube, on your next flight direct the same epithets as this man against a flight attendant and see what happens.

ImageImage


I am not sure the point... everything you posted shows it is up to the airline's judgment and I am stating that I don't see how in real time this was the worst decision for Ryanair to make.


Totally agree with you Arizona ... the airline reserves the right to refuse transportation ... but they chose not to. There was no further issue with the flight and it arrived safely on time. After landing the crew reported the incident to authorities. It indeed wasn’t the worst decision the airline could make.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1521
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Ryanair accused of inaction over racist incident on FR9015 flight from BCN to STN

Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:03 pm

Air France quoted the same article at me, although in their case it is Article 30, as justification for refusing to allow my wife to board. However they refused to state which specific part of the article they were applying, probably because they know that they actually don't have any justification for what they did. I'm sure what happened to this lady was unpleasant and probably this guy will get banned from flying Ryanair and he's been publicly shamed. At least she got to her destination. I just don't think it's such a big deal when other airlines are far worse than Ryanair and it's not the passengers but the airline itself that is discriminating against people in the case of Air France (and many others).

In the end what could Ryanair do - kick the guy off the plane, report him to the police etc. Maybe they could have handed him over to the Catalan police and they would have burnt him at the stake in Plaza Catalunya. He's famous now and pretty much everyone he knows is aware of what he did and has condemned him for it. It seems like enough - the guy has been punished. But why blame the airline? - I think airlines should be responsible for their own behavior, not that of their passengers. If there was a racism hotline to report Air France I'd love to have it, but it seems they can get away with selling tickets all over the world and then leaving passengers on the ground. If you don't live in the UK or some other western country then these companies can take your money and then treat you like trash.

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