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Swadian
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How to look up PDEW?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:38 pm

For the life of me I can't seem to figure out how to find PDEW for RNO-PHX. Everything I keep finding on BTS Transtats seems to including connecting traffic with AA/WN out of PHX as well. How do I find PDEW excluding connecting passengers?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:39 pm

Swadian wrote:
For the life of me I can't seem to figure out how to find PDEW for RNO-PHX. Everything I keep finding on BTS Transtats seems to including connecting traffic with AA/WN out of PHX as well. How do I find PDEW excluding connecting passengers?


https://data.transportation.gov/Aviatio ... /yj5y-b2ir

Divide by 2
Last edited by Midwestindy on Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jshank83
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:39 pm

Swadian wrote:
For the life of me I can't seem to figure out how to find PDEW for RNO-PHX. Everything I keep finding on BTS Transtats seems to including connecting traffic with AA/WN out of PHX as well. How do I find PDEW excluding connecting passengers?


https://www.transportation.gov/policy/a ... are-report

Table 6

And half the number for one way. It is both ways combined

EDIT: Indy beat me to it!
 
Swadian
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:55 pm

Thanks for the help. I'll give it a shot!
 
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ERJ170
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:41 pm

I must be really lazy because I just use faremeasure and search by airport. Not sure how current it is but it gets the job done for me.
Aiming High and going far..
 
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SANFan
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:54 pm

Hold on a second guys.

The DOT stats referenced do not exclude connections at all; they simply show how many people fly between Point A and Point B. Period. Tables 1A and 6 show the traffic that flies between 2 cities -- how they get between those 2 cities is irrelevant to the tables.

I know this because I constantly read the figures between say, SAN and ORF, to find out how many people per day fly between the 2 cities in order to determine whether a nonstop might be supported and viable.. There is no nonstop service in the market (yet) so all those pax are all either on a direct flight that stops once -- if there is any such thing in the market -- or they are connecting.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no government source that shows only nonstop pax. Maybe an airport might keep such data...

bb
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:57 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
I must be really lazy because I just use faremeasure and search by airport. Not sure how current it is but it gets the job done for me.


I don't know why you would use that website, it hasn't been updated in 5 years, literally.....

Their numbers are virtually worthless
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winginit
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:58 pm

Many who post on here are using MIDT. It is not publicly available without a subscription held by many airline employees and consultants.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:12 pm

SANFan wrote:
Hold on a second guys.

The DOT stats referenced do not exclude connections at all; they simply show how many people fly between Point A and Point B. Period. Tables 1A and 6 show the traffic that flies between 2 cities -- how they get between those 2 cities is irrelevant to the tables.

I know this because I constantly read the figures between say, SAN and ORF, to find out how many people per day fly between the 2 cities in order to determine whether a nonstop might be supported and viable.. There is no nonstop service in the market (yet) so all those pax are all either on a direct flight that stops once -- if there is any such thing in the market -- or they are connecting.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no government source that shows only nonstop pax. Maybe an airport might keep such data...

bb


I don't think they were referring to only nonstop, I thought they just wanted to know O&D/PDEW between RNO and PHX, excluding passengers who connect on to other destinations from PHX.

Anyway PDEW between RNO and PHX would be:
Q3 2018
190
Q4 2018
194
Q1 2018
230
Q2 2018
217

Nonstop passenger data can also be found in here: https://www.transtats.bts.gov/DL_SelectFields.asp
For example in July 2018 WN carried 8845 passengers from RNO to PHX (or 295 pax each day between RNO and PHX), however that includes passengers who are connecting in PHX. Therefore, my earlier source is an accurate metric to use in determining O&D/PDEW between two airports.
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RushmoreAir
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:38 am

SANFan wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, there is no government source that shows only nonstop pax. Maybe an airport might keep such data...


If you go in the DOT DB1B coupons and scale up, you can filter by connection point (incl. just showing non-stop pax), so the data is public and theoretically exists at least for the U.S. However, cleaning/prepping this data set is extremely messy so many in the industry use a service (e.g. Diio, Sabre MI + MIDT, etc.) to clean this data up for use.
NW UA DL F9 CO WN LO QF FI AC MU CA EU LH LX DY B6 AA HA NZ MW HU U2 SK AF EK IB HX WS G4 AZ IG 4B

The views and opinions as expressed in this post are entirely my own and are not those of my employer, Hawaiian Airlines, Inc
 
stlgph
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:56 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Swadian wrote:
For the life of me I can't seem to figure out how to find PDEW for RNO-PHX. Everything I keep finding on BTS Transtats seems to including connecting traffic with AA/WN out of PHX as well. How do I find PDEW excluding connecting passengers?


https://data.transportation.gov/Aviatio ... /yj5y-b2ir

Divide by 2


How about posing the question as this: an *EASY* way to find the information you're looking for.
This wants me to scroll through 489,000 pages of stuff if I'm looking for something specific.

You know, I have things to do.
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Jshank83
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:15 am

stlgph wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Swadian wrote:
For the life of me I can't seem to figure out how to find PDEW for RNO-PHX. Everything I keep finding on BTS Transtats seems to including connecting traffic with AA/WN out of PHX as well. How do I find PDEW excluding connecting passengers?


https://data.transportation.gov/Aviatio ... /yj5y-b2ir

Divide by 2


How about posing the question as this: an *EASY* way to find the information you're looking for.
This wants me to scroll through 489,000 pages of stuff if I'm looking for something specific.

You know, I have things to do.


You can filter the columns so it shows just what you want to see.
 
stlgph
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:34 am

Tried that. The whole thing is a total mess. I got bars to visit and people to see.

I'm out.
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[email protected]
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:02 am

Download and filter. Extremely easy and quick.
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SANFan
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:22 pm

For me, I've used the DOT's Tables 1A and 6 to track pax numbers (ending up with PDEW) that I was interested in, as I stated in my earlier post. XL spread sheets for each quarter made it very easy -- I could download the two tables, and manipulate them to show only the columns I wanted. Voila, total pax carried for every city-pair in the domestic lower 48 with 10 or more pax per day.

Unfortunately, starting in 2018, the posting of the data was changed and I have yet to figure out how to find (thru filtering I guess) the information that I want. The included stats now appear to go back decades, all in the same data base. In fact, the last useable numbers I have are for 4Q17 and I'm chomping at the bit to start collecting 2018. (It looks like both 1Q and 2Q are posted.)

I agree -- I have other things to do and so far have not found the time necessary to figure out how to deal with the new, "better-than-ever" data base at the DOT.

Ahhh, progress...

bb
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3451
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:40 pm

You must be doing it different than me. If I want to see a city pair it takes about 3 minutes. Filter year to xxx, city1 to xxx city2 to xxx. And it shows what I want.
 
skedguy
Posts: 86
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:58 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
I don't think they were referring to only nonstop, I thought they just wanted to know O&D/PDEW between RNO and PHX, excluding passengers who connect on to other destinations from PHX.

Anyway PDEW between RNO and PHX would be:
Q3 2018
190
Q4 2018
194
Q1 2018
230
Q2 2018
217


Another good source of fully-adjusted DOT data is http://www.airlinedata.com, which is available with a paid subscription. The DOT restricts international PDEW information unless they grant you authorization, but domestic PDEWs and all T-100 (onboard segment traffic) are available to everyone. Based on adjustments, I show slightly higher industry numbers for RNO-PHX:

Q3 2017 - 214
Q4 2017 - 219
Q1 2018 - 249
Q2 2018 - 258
Avg: 235
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5385
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:47 pm

skedguy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I don't think they were referring to only nonstop, I thought they just wanted to know O&D/PDEW between RNO and PHX, excluding passengers who connect on to other destinations from PHX.

Anyway PDEW between RNO and PHX would be:
Q3 2018
190
Q4 2018
194
Q1 2018
230
Q2 2018
217


Another good source of fully-adjusted DOT data is http://www.airlinedata.com, which is available with a paid subscription. The DOT restricts international PDEW information unless they grant you authorization, but domestic PDEWs and all T-100 (onboard segment traffic) are available to everyone. Based on adjustments, I show slightly higher industry numbers for RNO-PHX:

Q3 2017 - 214
Q4 2017 - 219
Q1 2018 - 249
Q2 2018 - 258
Avg: 235

And again, just to be clear, this is all pax who purchased a ticket with a fare originating in RNO with a final destination of PHX (and vv of course), correct? This is not the number of people who only flew nonstop between the 2 cities? I just want to make sure we're comparing kumquats to kumquats!

bb
 
af773atmsp
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:08 pm

Since we’re on the subject, how many O&D passengers are there between MSP and Chicago’s airports? More specifically just passengers that didn’t connect from another airport to get between the two, if that’s possible to find.
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
Too many airports to fit in signature.
 
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SANFan
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:19 pm

af773atmsp wrote:
Since we’re on the subject, how many O&D passengers are there between MSP and Chicago’s airports? More specifically just passengers that didn’t connect from another airport to get between the two, if that’s possible to find.

Ummmm, we've been discussing just how to do that in this thread.

Perhaps you'd like to look it up yourself.

bb
 
DeltaRules
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:55 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Swadian wrote:
For the life of me I can't seem to figure out how to find PDEW for RNO-PHX. Everything I keep finding on BTS Transtats seems to including connecting traffic with AA/WN out of PHX as well. How do I find PDEW excluding connecting passengers?


https://data.transportation.gov/Aviatio ... /yj5y-b2ir

Divide by 2


Where exactly is the Excel file download link? I'm having trouble finding it.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
af773atmsp
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:01 am

SANFan wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
Since we’re on the subject, how many O&D passengers are there between MSP and Chicago’s airports? More specifically just passengers that didn’t connect from another airport to get between the two, if that’s possible to find.

Ummmm, we've been discussing just how to do that in this thread.

Perhaps you'd like to look it up yourself.

bb


Let me rephrase that. Does anyone either:
-have the data that I asked in my original post or;
-want to look it up for me because I don’t know if I would have the right numbers

I should mention this is for research, so I can’t exactly wing it and hope I have the right data. Thank you for understanding.
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
Too many airports to fit in signature.
 
RushmoreAir
Posts: 88
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:14 am

af773atmsp wrote:

Let me rephrase that. Does anyone either:
-have the data that I asked in my original post or;
-want to look it up for me because I don’t know if I would have the right numbers

I should mention this is for research, so I can’t exactly wing it and hope I have the right data. Thank you for understanding.


This data is mostly available within Table 6. If you have the time you should teach yourself since it is a super useful dataset, and not that hard to navigate once you know what you're doing.

For this question though, trailing 4Q average ending 2Q18, CHI-MSP averaged ~1890 PDEW total on nonstop flights. This was split almost exactly 1/3 MDW and 2/3 ORD. Fewer than 1% of passengers on this O&D connected, so this nonstop sample basically represents the total market size as well.
NW UA DL F9 CO WN LO QF FI AC MU CA EU LH LX DY B6 AA HA NZ MW HU U2 SK AF EK IB HX WS G4 AZ IG 4B

The views and opinions as expressed in this post are entirely my own and are not those of my employer, Hawaiian Airlines, Inc
 
af773atmsp
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:27 am

RushmoreAir wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:

Let me rephrase that. Does anyone either:
-have the data that I asked in my original post or;
-want to look it up for me because I don’t know if I would have the right numbers

I should mention this is for research, so I can’t exactly wing it and hope I have the right data. Thank you for understanding.


This data is mostly available within Table 6. If you have the time you should teach yourself since it is a super useful dataset, and not that hard to navigate once you know what you're doing.

For this question though, trailing 4Q average ending 2Q18, CHI-MSP averaged ~1890 PDEW total on nonstop flights. This was split almost exactly 1/3 MDW and 2/3 ORD. Fewer than 1% of passengers on this O&D connected, so this nonstop sample basically represents the total market size as well.


Thank you!

Somehow I got 3,800 between MSP and Chicago when looking at the data. I'm guessing those include connecting passengers.
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
Too many airports to fit in signature.
 
RushmoreAir
Posts: 88
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:48 am

af773atmsp wrote:
[

Thank you!

Somehow I got 3,800 between MSP and Chicago when looking at the data. I'm guessing those include connecting passengers.


If you looked in Table 6, it's bidirectional. So for PDEW you'd divide by two, which would put you at 1,900, which is within spitting distance of my number.
NW UA DL F9 CO WN LO QF FI AC MU CA EU LH LX DY B6 AA HA NZ MW HU U2 SK AF EK IB HX WS G4 AZ IG 4B

The views and opinions as expressed in this post are entirely my own and are not those of my employer, Hawaiian Airlines, Inc
 
af773atmsp
Posts: 2366
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:37 am

Re: How to look up PDEW?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:18 am

RushmoreAir wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
[

Thank you!

Somehow I got 3,800 between MSP and Chicago when looking at the data. I'm guessing those include connecting passengers.


If you looked in Table 6, it's bidirectional. So for PDEW you'd divide by two, which would put you at 1,900, which is within spitting distance of my number.


So on average 1,900 people per day originated at MSP and flew to either ORD or MDW as their destination, and vice versa?
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
Too many airports to fit in signature.
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 5136
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: How to look up PDEW?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:32 am

af773atmsp wrote:
RushmoreAir wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
[

Thank you!

Somehow I got 3,800 between MSP and Chicago when looking at the data. I'm guessing those include connecting passengers.


If you looked in Table 6, it's bidirectional. So for PDEW you'd divide by two, which would put you at 1,900, which is within spitting distance of my number.


So on average 1,900 people per day originated at MSP and flew to either ORD or MDW as their destination, and vice versa?


Yes
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flymco753
Posts: 3385
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Re: How to look up PDEW?

Thu May 09, 2019 8:35 pm

I found a few anomalies with Table 6.

First, where's Q2 2018?

Second, I looked up DTW/SRQ and it shows a measly 24/2=12 PDEW. Someone I know has a subscription and it suggests otherwise.

What gives?
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skedguy
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:47 am

Re: How to look up PDEW?

Thu May 09, 2019 9:33 pm

SANFan wrote:
skedguy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I don't think they were referring to only nonstop, I thought they just wanted to know O&D/PDEW between RNO and PHX, excluding passengers who connect on to other destinations from PHX.

Anyway PDEW between RNO and PHX would be:
Q3 2018
190
Q4 2018
194
Q1 2018
230
Q2 2018
217


Another good source of fully-adjusted DOT data is http://www.airlinedata.com, which is available with a paid subscription. The DOT restricts international PDEW information unless they grant you authorization, but domestic PDEWs and all T-100 (onboard segment traffic) are available to everyone. Based on adjustments, I show slightly higher industry numbers for RNO-PHX:

Q3 2017 - 214
Q4 2017 - 219
Q1 2018 - 249
Q2 2018 - 258
Avg: 235

And again, just to be clear, this is all pax who purchased a ticket with a fare originating in RNO with a final destination of PHX (and vv of course), correct? This is not the number of people who only flew nonstop between the 2 cities? I just want to make sure we're comparing kumquats to kumquats!

bb


You are correct. These are LOCAL PDEWs only (people who bought a ticket with an origin of RNO and a destination of PHX — and vice-versa). This includes people who flew nonstop or who flew via a connection. If you want to know total onboards on that nonstop segment, regardless whether they were local or passengers connecting elsewhere, you would need to use the domestic T-100 table.

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