jumbojet
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

nine4nine wrote:
[
Product- Deffinately not a problem. Mint blows the doors off of any other domestic F product hands down and is very profitable for B6. They could use a softer business of Mint for the rest of the fleet. Joining the club with basic economy will help.

.


Surely you cant be serious, a bit overdramatic are we? MINT is a very solid product but it does not blow the doors off of what the US3 have. MINT is new and a breathe of fresh air to compared to what the US3 have but I'll take a DL A330 on JFK-LAX any day of the week over a B6 bus narrowbody.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3296
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:32 pm

Better than expected, but that’s not saying much.

Great recap by Skift and interesting comments about Boston:

https://skift.com/2018/10/23/jetblues-b ... in-boston/
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:48 am

jetbluefan1 wrote:
Better than expected, but that’s not saying much.

Great recap by Skift and interesting comments about Boston:

https://skift.com/2018/10/23/jetblues-b ... in-boston/



Best quote from the article

Delta, as it often does when it grows in a competitive market, has been gently tweaking JetBlue, mainly in press releases.

While JetBlue is larger in Boston, Delta has been differentiating itself by calling itself, “Boston’s No. 1 global carrier.” It has been adding long-haul flights to Europe, and by next summer will fly to London, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Amsterdam, Dublin and Paris. Delta also has been promoting its, “unmatched reliability” — JetBlue tends to be in the bottom of the pack on on-time performance — and its “renowned customer service.”


Here's another quote that you gotta laugh at.

“To fly business class from JFK or New York to Heathrow is $8,000, if you went today and booked a flight,” Joanna Geraghty, JetBlue’s president, said last month at Skift Global Forum. “I don’t know about you, but I’m not paying $8,000.”


But if she 'went today' she'll pay $3,500 to fly JetBlue MINT JFK-LAX ? :roll:
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:30 am

jumbojet wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
Better than expected, but that’s not saying much.

Great recap by Skift and interesting comments about Boston:

https://skift.com/2018/10/23/jetblues-b ... in-boston/



Best quote from the article

Delta, as it often does when it grows in a competitive market, has been gently tweaking JetBlue, mainly in press releases.

While JetBlue is larger in Boston, Delta has been differentiating itself by calling itself, “Boston’s No. 1 global carrier.” It has been adding long-haul flights to Europe, and by next summer will fly to London, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Amsterdam, Dublin and Paris. Delta also has been promoting its, “unmatched reliability” — JetBlue tends to be in the bottom of the pack on on-time performance — and its “renowned customer service.”


Here's another quote that you gotta laugh at.

“To fly business class from JFK or New York to Heathrow is $8,000, if you went today and booked a flight,” Joanna Geraghty, JetBlue’s president, said last month at Skift Global Forum. “I don’t know about you, but I’m not paying $8,000.”


But if she 'went today' she'll pay $3,500 to fly JetBlue MINT JFK-LAX ? :roll:



I don’t know 8000 vs 3500 seems to be a big difference.

Also I don’t think JetBlue is bottom of the pack in customer service. But you must love this article
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:35 am

fastmover wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
Better than expected, but that’s not saying much.

Great recap by Skift and interesting comments about Boston:

https://skift.com/2018/10/23/jetblues-b ... in-boston/



Best quote from the article

Delta, as it often does when it grows in a competitive market, has been gently tweaking JetBlue, mainly in press releases.

While JetBlue is larger in Boston, Delta has been differentiating itself by calling itself, “Boston’s No. 1 global carrier.” It has been adding long-haul flights to Europe, and by next summer will fly to London, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Amsterdam, Dublin and Paris. Delta also has been promoting its, “unmatched reliability” — JetBlue tends to be in the bottom of the pack on on-time performance — and its “renowned customer service.”


Here's another quote that you gotta laugh at.

“To fly business class from JFK or New York to Heathrow is $8,000, if you went today and booked a flight,” Joanna Geraghty, JetBlue’s president, said last month at Skift Global Forum. “I don’t know about you, but I’m not paying $8,000.”


But if she 'went today' she'll pay $3,500 to fly JetBlue MINT JFK-LAX ? :roll:



I don’t know 8000 vs 3500 seems to be a big difference.

Also I don’t think JetBlue is bottom of the pack in customer service. But you must love this article


LHR and LAX are a big difference; two totally and completely different markets. But there's more.

Point being, which you missed, When B6 started MINT, them charging $3700 for a RT JFK-LAX fare was unheard of. The big boys did it but now that B6 knows they can get the same money, they are doing it. You don't think for one second that several years down the road, after B6 starts service to London, that they won't be asking something in the neighborhood of $8,000 RT for a last minute JFK-LON fare?
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:59 am

jumbojet wrote:
fastmover wrote:
jumbojet wrote:


Best quote from the article



Here's another quote that you gotta laugh at.



But if she 'went today' she'll pay $3,500 to fly JetBlue MINT JFK-LAX ? :roll:



I don’t know 8000 vs 3500 seems to be a big difference.

Also I don’t think JetBlue is bottom of the pack in customer service. But you must love this article


LHR and LAX are a big difference; two totally and completely different markets. But there's more.

Point being, which you missed, When B6 started MINT, them charging $3700 for a RT JFK-LAX fare was unheard of. The big boys did it but now that B6 knows they can get the same money, they are doing it. You don't think for one second that several years down the road, after B6 starts service to London, that they won't be asking something in the neighborhood of $8,000 RT for a last minute JFK-LON fare?



So they should charge less just because?
They are not a charity.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 649
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:59 am

I lived in Chicago when B6 decided to add flights to JFK and LGB. Had I not been working for the company that was picked to run their ground handling at ORD and ANET, I would never have known that they started any kind of service. I tried their ORD-JFK service and enjoyed it.


They have a better product and service than the legacies. They have competitive fares in markets they compete against the legacies. So what if they have large FF bases in flyover country. Didn't CO and AA have large FF groups in the cities that B6 started flying to when they opened up shop? Many people in flyover country don't have a choice and B6 could and would make money in flyover country.
WN has a competitive product against the legacies and can hold their own against B6 opening up shop.

The point is, everyone still acts like there aren't anyone in flyover country, and the ones that are there, are just country bumpkins who don't fly anyway. I'm not saying they should open a hub and start flying HYS-XYZ or EKO-XYZ, but they would open new markets, new revenue and with hard work, more profit.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
stlgph
Posts: 10998
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:11 am

What's being forgotten about in the BOS/LHR/Europe on JetBlue discussion is the fact they're being boxed into very narrow windows for Terminal E in Boston, thanks in part, to recent actions by Delta and their partners.

Korean Air - taking up at 1030 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. window.
KLM - taking up a 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. window.

Delta's new Edinburgh and Lisbon additions? Taking up 1:00 p.m. windows.

The goal for the opening of a second major Terminal E expansion is still what ... 2 1/2 years away?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
6YBLUE
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:45 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:05 am

stlgph wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:

Boston is under attack from Delta. New York is hyper competitive. Long Beach is a freaking disaster that they have no answer to. Spirit just announced a huge expansion in Orlando. Fort Lauderdale is hyper competitive.


When you say New York is hyper competitive are you including AA? You have implied in the past that AA has withered on the vine in NYC and to an extent they have, but they're still a decent #2 in LGA and are not totally dead in the water in JFK. While I appreciate your insight into the NYC state of things I don't always agree with some of your opinions. Not trying to poke the bear here but is AA a competitive factor regarding your opinion of B6's current situation?


JB needs to go back to the basics and focus on what made it good in the first place - shuttling people from the northeast/NYC to Florida/Sun. It's time to get creative. There's no shortage of people up and about at all times of the day in the city that never sleeps, how about adding some 2am or 3am flights down to the sun. Spirit's made it work with their odd schedules, proved that people are willing to do it. JFK sits on a metro of how many million people? The idea - build more revenue opportunities.

Also, I'd be looking at the partnerships. Are all these partnerships worth it? Do the math - TAP, Hawaii, and Aer Lingus all take up gate space in T5 at JFK for a number of hours per day. Is it worth it? If they get sent over to T4 or T7 - is it possible to add flights at those times? Is it worth it? How does the math add up?

Start there, and do a long, hard serious comb through the personnel roster. A nice number of the people and job titles you see on a basic scroll of LinkedIn - you have to wonder what in the hell the purpose of said job is.


They need more not less partner airlines. Its cheaper than running your own metal. 12 wide body gates at T6 will be built by 2020
 
6YBLUE
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:45 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:06 am

stlgph wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:

Boston is under attack from Delta. New York is hyper competitive. Long Beach is a freaking disaster that they have no answer to. Spirit just announced a huge expansion in Orlando. Fort Lauderdale is hyper competitive.


When you say New York is hyper competitive are you including AA? You have implied in the past that AA has withered on the vine in NYC and to an extent they have, but they're still a decent #2 in LGA and are not totally dead in the water in JFK. While I appreciate your insight into the NYC state of things I don't always agree with some of your opinions. Not trying to poke the bear here but is AA a competitive factor regarding your opinion of B6's current situation?


JB needs to go back to the basics and focus on what made it good in the first place - shuttling people from the northeast/NYC to Florida/Sun. It's time to get creative. There's no shortage of people up and about at all times of the day in the city that never sleeps, how about adding some 2am or 3am flights down to the sun. Spirit's made it work with their odd schedules, proved that people are willing to do it. JFK sits on a metro of how many million people? The idea - build more revenue opportunities.

Also, I'd be looking at the partnerships. Are all these partnerships worth it? Do the math - TAP, Hawaii, and Aer Lingus all take up gate space in T5 at JFK for a number of hours per day. Is it worth it? If they get sent over to T4 or T7 - is it possible to add flights at those times? Is it worth it? How does the math add up?

Start there, and do a long, hard serious comb through the personnel roster. A nice number of the people and job titles you see on a basic scroll of LinkedIn - you have to wonder what in the hell the purpose of said job is.


They need more not less partner airlines. Its cheaper than running your own metal. 12 wide body gates at T6 will be built by 2020
 
stlgph
Posts: 10998
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:12 am

Yes, clearly having all these partner airlines has done brilliance for the bottom line, as evident by the last several years of financial reports.
They'd be much better off focusing on their own business rather than focusing on being someone else's bitch. They need to do more to dictate their own revenue stream.

And there's no way in hell 12 new gates will magically show up on the old ground of the old Terminal 6 by 2020.

Next, please.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Abeam79
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:38 am

stlgph wrote:
Yes, clearly having all these partner airlines has done brilliance for the bottom line, as evident by the last several years of financial reports.
They'd be much better off focusing on their own business rather than focusing on being someone else's bitch. They need to do more to dictate their own revenue stream.

And there's no way in hell 12 new gates will magically show up on the old ground of the old Terminal 6 by 2020.

Next, please.

Next indeed, between you and jumbo, whats your obsession by 2020? They will have more real estate at JFK than Delta can even dream of, and they will have a optional schedule to do long haul between their own and the partner airlines. Same as Boston, JetBlue has first rights on new gates that will be expanded in Boston and they can do enough between pre-clearance at UK/EU and swapping gates schedules that they have partnered out of E (IE Icelandair, TAP, Aer Lingus, Emirates, etc) They have more upper hand than your precious Delta.
jumbojet wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
Better than expected, but that’s not saying much.

Great recap by Skift and interesting comments about Boston:

https://skift.com/2018/10/23/jetblues-b ... in-boston/



Best quote from the article

Delta, as it often does when it grows in a competitive market, has been gently tweaking JetBlue, mainly in press releases.

While JetBlue is larger in Boston, Delta has been differentiating itself by calling itself, “Boston’s No. 1 global carrier.” It has been adding long-haul flights to Europe, and by next summer will fly to London, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Amsterdam, Dublin and Paris. Delta also has been promoting its, “unmatched reliability” — JetBlue tends to be in the bottom of the pack on on-time performance — and its “renowned customer service.”


Here's another quote that you gotta laugh at.

“To fly business class from JFK or New York to Heathrow is $8,000, if you went today and booked a flight,” Joanna Geraghty, JetBlue’s president, said last month at Skift Global Forum. “I don’t know about you, but I’m not paying $8,000.”


But if she 'went today' she'll pay $3,500 to fly JetBlue MINT JFK-LAX ? :roll:

The only one who getting laughed at here is you. Just get over it, you don't like how JetBlue has given Delta a run for their money, have you looked at Delta's Yields out of Boston? Delta is losing money by the tonne, so please spare us.
 
Prost
Posts: 2491
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:22 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
I lived in Chicago when B6 decided to add flights to JFK and LGB. Had I not been working for the company that was picked to run their ground handling at ORD and ANET, I would never have known that they started any kind of service. I tried their ORD-JFK service and enjoyed it.


They have a better product and service than the legacies. They have competitive fares in markets they compete against the legacies. So what if they have large FF bases in flyover country. Didn't CO and AA have large FF groups in the cities that B6 started flying to when they opened up shop? Many people in flyover country don't have a choice and B6 could and would make money in flyover country.
WN has a competitive product against the legacies and can hold their own against B6 opening up shop.

The point is, everyone still acts like there aren't anyone in flyover country, and the ones that are there, are just country bumpkins who don't fly anyway. I'm not saying they should open a hub and start flying HYS-XYZ or EKO-XYZ, but they would open new markets, new revenue and with hard work, more profit.


Myself and several people think the exact opposite that the middle of America is where B6 can make a lot of money. I don’t want to see anymore consolidation, but if B6 and AS we’re able to have a couple of shared mid continent hubs with a tight codeshare or JV like CO & NW once had, I think it could be successful. B6 running mid continent east and AS running mid continent west, and they each keep their transcon markets.

The problem is Wall Street would be apoplectic over each carriers growth running higher than GDP.
 
stlgph
Posts: 10998
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:09 am

Abeam79 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Yes, clearly having all these partner airlines has done brilliance for the bottom line, as evident by the last several years of financial reports.
They'd be much better off focusing on their own business rather than focusing on being someone else's bitch. They need to do more to dictate their own revenue stream.

And there's no way in hell 12 new gates will magically show up on the old ground of the old Terminal 6 by 2020.

Next, please.

Next indeed, between you and jumbo, whats your obsession by 2020? They will have more real estate at JFK than Delta can even dream of, and they will have a optional schedule to do long haul between their own and the partner airlines. Same as Boston, JetBlue has first rights on new gates that will be expanded in Boston and they can do enough between pre-clearance at UK/EU and swapping gates schedules that they have partnered out of E (IE Icelandair, TAP, Aer Lingus, Emirates, etc) They have more upper hand than your precious Delta.
jumbojet wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
Better than expected, but that’s not saying much.

Great recap by Skift and interesting comments about Boston:

https://skift.com/2018/10/23/jetblues-b ... in-boston/


Best quote from the article

Delta, as it often does when it grows in a competitive market, has been gently tweaking JetBlue, mainly in press releases.

While JetBlue is larger in Boston, Delta has been differentiating itself by calling itself, “Boston’s No. 1 global carrier.” It has been adding long-haul flights to Europe, and by next summer will fly to London, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Amsterdam, Dublin and Paris. Delta also has been promoting its, “unmatched reliability” — JetBlue tends to be in the bottom of the pack on on-time performance — and its “renowned customer service.”


Here's another quote that you gotta laugh at.

“To fly business class from JFK or New York to Heathrow is $8,000, if you went today and booked a flight,” Joanna Geraghty, JetBlue’s president, said last month at Skift Global Forum. “I don’t know about you, but I’m not paying $8,000.”


But if she 'went today' she'll pay $3,500 to fly JetBlue MINT JFK-LAX ? :roll:

The only one who getting laughed at here is you. Just get over it, you don't like how JetBlue has given Delta a run for their money, have you looked at Delta's Yields out of Boston? Delta is losing money by the tonne, so please spare us.


First, if you think JetBlue will magically have 12 new gates up and running at JFK by 2020, hilarious.

Second, if you think JetBlue is running away with an advantage above and beyond that of American and Delta, you are sorely mistaken. On top of that, look at all that neat stuff they're doing over at LGA. But hey, keep dreaming.

Third, in Boston, I'm referring to the much needed access to space at Terminal E. JB gets 1 preferential use gate in 2019. They'll need a lot more access than that to have any sort of substantial push on the international front. Right now, they're getting boxed out thanks to other carriers coming in, namely that of Delta and its partners.

Fourth, if Delta is losing money "by the tonne," as you say, please post specific examples of how you know this and educate us all.

Fifth, Emirates, Icelandair, TAP, Aer Lingus, etc. etc. won't be "just swapping schedules" at the convenience of JetBlue in Boston so they can have more access to Terminal E. There's a reason why these airlines come in when they come in and head out when they head out.

To even write that as a suggestion is complete ignorance.


Delta isn't "my precious" Delta. They just have it together. When it comes to the game of lead, follow, or get out of the way, Delta is leading. It's that simple.

Next.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
N766UA
Posts: 8246
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:18 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Considering what Delta just reported...This is another mediocre quarter for B6.

They are going to be under intense pressure from wall street to do something… Soon


Jetblue isn’t Delta?
 
micstatic
Posts: 734
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:02 am

Abeam79 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
The only one who getting laughed at here is you. Just get over it, you don't like how JetBlue has given Delta a run for their money, have you looked at Delta's Yields out of Boston? Delta is losing money by the tonne, so please spare us.


Are you saying you have the yields for Delta and JetBlue out of Boston? I would like to see those. Can you please post? It's clear that Boston is one area in the northeast that is bucking the trend of economic regression. That is good to see. I would agree with some that JetBlue has created an impressive operation in Boston. But if Delta is really trying to build up like it appears, in the longterm I don't see how JetBlue can have much hope in stopping them. One of the biggest problems with JetBlue is their management team. They seem to be very slow to move and afraid of risk. Yes, there are benefits that come from this approach. But when you are the smallest airline, that's not going to work. The new pilot contract only adds to their problems by raising costs. Delta (and some of the others) have other hubs where they absolutely dominate and can command a very real fare premium. This enables them to conduct experiments like they appear to be starting in Boston. This will be interesting to watch.
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:28 am

Abeam79 wrote:
[ The only one who getting laughed at here is you. Just get over it, you don't like how JetBlue has given Delta a run for their money, have you looked at Delta's Yields out of Boston? Delta is losing money by the tonne, so please spare us.


please enlighten me with facts on hpw Delta is losing money by the tonne in Boston. Remember, Q3 earnings, DL 1.6 BILLION, B6 90 million. Overall, and thats what matters here, DL makes a mockery of B6 financially.


As far as gates go at JFK, again, show me where it says B6 will wind up with more gates at JFK than DL. And, even if they do, good for them. Doesnt really mean a thing. Especially when every gate, if occupied by a B6 pplane will be nothing bigger than an A321
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5521
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:54 am

N766UA wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Considering what Delta just reported...This is another mediocre quarter for B6.

They are going to be under intense pressure from wall street to do something… Soon


Jetblue isn’t Delta?


I know. delta employees got $365 million in profit sharing this quarter. B6 employees $0. I am we aware B6 isnt Delta.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5521
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:58 am

jumbojet wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
[ The only one who getting laughed at here is you. Just get over it, you don't like how JetBlue has given Delta a run for their money, have you looked at Delta's Yields out of Boston? Delta is losing money by the tonne, so please spare us.


please enlighten me with facts on hpw Delta is losing money by the tonne in Boston. Remember, Q3 earnings, DL 1.6 BILLION, B6 90 million. Overall, and thats what matters here, DL makes a mockery of B6 financially.


As far as gates go at JFK, again, show me where it says B6 will wind up with more gates at JFK than DL. And, even if they do, good for them. Doesnt really mean a thing. Especially when every gate, if occupied by a B6 pplane will be nothing bigger than an A321



Of course B6 will have more gates and ramp space.

Look at an overhead shot of JFK.

B6 will have whole parcel from East of Terminal 4 A to the JFK Expressway. 30 gates now plus a new 15 or so.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1581
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:10 pm

N766UA wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Considering what Delta just reported...This is another mediocre quarter for B6.

They are going to be under intense pressure from wall street to do something… Soon


Jetblue isn’t Delta?
No, but they are a competitor to DL. They are absolutely going to be compared, at least on a percentage basis.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1581
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:21 pm

Prost wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
I lived in Chicago when B6 decided to add flights to JFK and LGB. Had I not been working for the company that was picked to run their ground handling at ORD and ANET, I would never have known that they started any kind of service. I tried their ORD-JFK service and enjoyed it.


They have a better product and service than the legacies. They have competitive fares in markets they compete against the legacies. So what if they have large FF bases in flyover country. Didn't CO and AA have large FF groups in the cities that B6 started flying to when they opened up shop? Many people in flyover country don't have a choice and B6 could and would make money in flyover country.
WN has a competitive product against the legacies and can hold their own against B6 opening up shop.

The point is, everyone still acts like there aren't anyone in flyover country, and the ones that are there, are just country bumpkins who don't fly anyway. I'm not saying they should open a hub and start flying HYS-XYZ or EKO-XYZ, but they would open new markets, new revenue and with hard work, more profit.


Myself and several people think the exact opposite that the middle of America is where B6 can make a lot of money. I don’t want to see anymore consolidation, but if B6 and AS we’re able to have a couple of shared mid continent hubs with a tight codeshare or JV like CO & NW once had, I think it could be successful. B6 running mid continent east and AS running mid continent west, and they each keep their transcon markets.

The problem is Wall Street would be apoplectic over each carriers growth running higher than GDP.
The problem B6 has in the middle of the country is the same it has had since the beginning. Its hub structure sucks for serving these destinations. Places like CMH, CVG, MKE, STL, and IND are business destinations are require a certain frequency that is hard for B6 to supply because BOS and JFK connect to virtually nothing logical in the B6 network from these cities. Throw in the fact that the competition will be flying to the preferred O&D NYC airport (LGA) and B6 is already at a disadvantage.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1581
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:22 pm

6YBLUE wrote:
stlgph wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

When you say New York is hyper competitive are you including AA? You have implied in the past that AA has withered on the vine in NYC and to an extent they have, but they're still a decent #2 in LGA and are not totally dead in the water in JFK. While I appreciate your insight into the NYC state of things I don't always agree with some of your opinions. Not trying to poke the bear here but is AA a competitive factor regarding your opinion of B6's current situation?


JB needs to go back to the basics and focus on what made it good in the first place - shuttling people from the northeast/NYC to Florida/Sun. It's time to get creative. There's no shortage of people up and about at all times of the day in the city that never sleeps, how about adding some 2am or 3am flights down to the sun. Spirit's made it work with their odd schedules, proved that people are willing to do it. JFK sits on a metro of how many million people? The idea - build more revenue opportunities.

Also, I'd be looking at the partnerships. Are all these partnerships worth it? Do the math - TAP, Hawaii, and Aer Lingus all take up gate space in T5 at JFK for a number of hours per day. Is it worth it? If they get sent over to T4 or T7 - is it possible to add flights at those times? Is it worth it? How does the math add up?

Start there, and do a long, hard serious comb through the personnel roster. A nice number of the people and job titles you see on a basic scroll of LinkedIn - you have to wonder what in the hell the purpose of said job is.


They need more not less partner airlines. Its cheaper than running your own metal. 12 wide body gates at T6 will be built by 2020
Sure, its cheaper than running your own metal, but it brings in a hell of a lot less revenue too.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3514
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:18 pm

stlgph wrote:
What's being forgotten about in the BOS/LHR/Europe on JetBlue discussion is the fact they're being boxed into very narrow windows for Terminal E in Boston, thanks in part, to recent actions by Delta and their partners.

Korean Air - taking up at 1030 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. window.
KLM - taking up a 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. window.

Delta's new Edinburgh and Lisbon additions? Taking up 1:00 p.m. windows.

The goal for the opening of a second major Terminal E expansion is still what ... 2 1/2 years away?


They get more than just E1 actually. They also use E3 and E4 for departures during winter season. They also operate quite a few international flights out of BOS that would require E gate access on arrival, especially during winter season. And they've had no issues adding more international flights as we've seen in their recent announcement. They will probably start off with at most 2 flights to London and 1 flight to Dublin, E1 and E3 should be sufficient for that. All those money loosing flights out of ORH aren't done out of charity. The bigger issue is getting slots at London airports.

jumbojet wrote:
please enlighten me with facts on hpw Delta is losing money by the tonne in Boston. Remember, Q3 earnings, DL 1.6 BILLION, B6 90 million. Overall, and thats what matters here, DL makes a mockery of B6 financially.


As far as gates go at JFK, again, show me where it says B6 will wind up with more gates at JFK than DL. And, even if they do, good for them. Doesnt really mean a thing. Especially when every gate, if occupied by a B6 pplane will be nothing bigger than an A321


Yes, DL is a very profitable company. It makes a lot of money in its fortress hubs which allow it to engage in market share battles at NYC/SEA/BOS/LAX.

I've posted the BOS numbers on the JetBlue thread. It should be pretty obvious that DL is making money on limited routes out of BOS (I'm guessing DTW/RDU/IND/CVG/CMH is it). I don't know why this is such a surprise. They lost a lot of money building up JFK and still loose money on a lot of routes there. Same with SEA. There is no magic formula here. Building up new station costs money. B6 is seeing a lot of leisure markets (Florida + Carribbean) out of BOS with depressed yield since DL entrance. Keep in mind that B6 is still getting higher yield than DL to these market despite operating much lower cost and higher capacity aircraft.

I don't know what DL's loss tolerance is for routes it adds during build up phase, but the numbers to SFO/PIT/BUF are just really terrible. It's not a surprise to me that there is no more D1 on SFO. I don't see how that route last another year. Their new approach is to go with high density B757 with a single daily frequency (with no sunday flights) in winter time against 5 or 6 flights a day each from UA/B6 both with much better products. And the numbers for LAX and SEA are only mildly better.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:06 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
[ The only one who getting laughed at here is you. Just get over it, you don't like how JetBlue has given Delta a run for their money, have you looked at Delta's Yields out of Boston? Delta is losing money by the tonne, so please spare us.


please enlighten me with facts on hpw Delta is losing money by the tonne in Boston. Remember, Q3 earnings, DL 1.6 BILLION, B6 90 million. Overall, and thats what matters here, DL makes a mockery of B6 financially.


Comparing earnings of a carrier the size of Delta to JetBlue is like comparing the earnings of Mokulele to Sun Country. They are in complete different leagues. Even the thought comparing the numbers of the two carriers is well....just plain retarded.

But hey, whatever gets the DL cheer squad creamin’ in their undies.......
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:07 pm

tphuang wrote:
stlgph wrote:
What's being forgotten about in the BOS/LHR/Europe on JetBlue discussion is the fact they're being boxed into very narrow windows for Terminal E in Boston, thanks in part, to recent actions by Delta and their partners.

Korean Air - taking up at 1030 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. window.
KLM - taking up a 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. window.

Delta's new Edinburgh and Lisbon additions? Taking up 1:00 p.m. windows.

The goal for the opening of a second major Terminal E expansion is still what ... 2 1/2 years away?


They get more than just E1 actually. They also use E3 and E4 for departures during winter season. They also operate quite a few international flights out of BOS that would require E gate access on arrival, especially during winter season. And they've had no issues adding more international flights as we've seen in their recent announcement. They will probably start off with at most 2 flights to London and 1 flight to Dublin, E1 and E3 should be sufficient for that. All those money loosing flights out of ORH aren't done out of charity. The bigger issue is getting slots at London airports.

jumbojet wrote:
please enlighten me with facts on hpw Delta is losing money by the tonne in Boston. Remember, Q3 earnings, DL 1.6 BILLION, B6 90 million. Overall, and thats what matters here, DL makes a mockery of B6 financially.


As far as gates go at JFK, again, show me where it says B6 will wind up with more gates at JFK than DL. And, even if they do, good for them. Doesnt really mean a thing. Especially when every gate, if occupied by a B6 pplane will be nothing bigger than an A321


Yes, DL is a very profitable company. It makes a lot of money in its fortress hubs which allow it to engage in market share battles at NYC/SEA/BOS/LAX.

I've posted the BOS numbers on the JetBlue thread. It should be pretty obvious that DL is making money on limited routes out of BOS (I'm guessing DTW/RDU/IND/CVG/CMH is it). I don't know why this is such a surprise. They lost a lot of money building up JFK and still loose money on a lot of routes there. Same with SEA. There is no magic formula here. Building up new station costs money. B6 is seeing a lot of leisure markets (Florida + Carribbean) out of BOS with depressed yield since DL entrance. Keep in mind that B6 is still getting higher yield than DL to these market despite operating much lower cost and higher capacity aircraft.

I don't know what DL's loss tolerance is for routes it adds during build up phase, but the numbers to SFO/PIT/BUF are just really terrible. It's not a surprise to me that there is no more D1 on SFO. I don't see how that route last another year. Their new approach is to go with high density B757 with a single daily frequency (with no sunday flights) in winter time against 5 or 6 flights a day each from UA/B6 both with much better products. And the numbers for LAX and SEA are only mildly better.



Yup when you own ATL and a little company can’t even get gates together it’s easy to start wars in other places. Must be nice.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3514
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:12 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Basic economy is a must. Too much of the market has gone there. B6 must shrink pitch to motivate buying even more space.

avi8 wrote:
They are doing something. It seems like the E190 is anchoring them; which is why they will replace them completely. They are adding more seats to the A320 and charging more for checked bags, but things take time.

The E190 has been a disaster. However waiting on the A220s is wise.

I love flying B6, but they are amateurs in yeild management.

Lightsaber


Btw I didn’t comment on this yesterday, but I agree with everything you wrote here.

B6 revenue management are like amateurs compared to legacies. delta is so good at monetizing it’s cabins especially with the fcm program. They really seem to get every bit of revenue they can even in the economy plus cabin.

JetBlue on the other hand doesn’t even charge more for the mint suites when pretty everyone know they are more desirable than the side by side ones.

They have the most leg room with the even more space cabin but don’t package it to make it more appealing for higher yielding customers. At least add a free food And drink selection along with free movies. As is, there is no reason for people to buy up.

And with A220 coming, great time to take 2 of those EMS rows and make that first class. Include free alcohol beverage, better service standard and free meal. You only loose 1 seat per row and could get good return on the medium to longer flights. Just think of the number people willing to pay double Y fare on JFK/BOS-SJC/BUR/AUS or even to Chicago. Those AA flights on LGA-ORD aren't filling J cabin with only free upgrades. I can tell you that.
 
mjzair
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 1999 12:10 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:32 pm

tphuang wrote:

JetBlue on the other hand doesn’t even charge more for the mint suites when pretty everyone know they are more desirable than the side by side ones.

.


JetBlue cannot charge more for the single access seats by law, the ADA to be exact. But, since you can throw stones about revenue management being amateurs, I am sure you knew that already.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:44 pm

mjzair wrote:
tphuang wrote:

JetBlue on the other hand doesn’t even charge more for the mint suites when pretty everyone know they are more desirable than the side by side ones.

.


JetBlue cannot charge more for the single access seats by law, the ADA to be exact. But, since you can throw stones about revenue management being amateurs, I am sure you knew that already.



That is correct it’s an ADA thing.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:05 pm

Comparisons between carriers is natural. It’s the over-zealous criticisms that seem a bit gratuitous and out of place. Most of us just want to have intelligent dialogue without this sort of comparative vitriol that a few bring in.

Financially, we are going to have high expectations from an investors perspective. However, how people can sit and cast stones at a carrier that is being dragged to the bottom rather than leading to the bottom is laughable. They are literally damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Look at the 18 years they’ve been in business. Not all roses but they’ve done great overall in bringing a value to the industry. 18 years ago DL was exiting the 90’s - not their best decade - and we’re heading for bankruptcy. They had Delta. They had Delta Express. They had Song. They loved Portland. They hated Portland. They joined with another BK carrier, wiped away all their mistakes and got a do-over. As Obama might say to current Delta mgmt “You didn’t build that”. Oh well. That’s not to criticize them - it’s to give a fuller picture. But for some it’s nice to cast stones when living in glass houses.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1676
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:07 pm

fastmover wrote:
mjzair wrote:
tphuang wrote:

JetBlue on the other hand doesn’t even charge more for the mint suites when pretty everyone know they are more desirable than the side by side ones.

.


JetBlue cannot charge more for the single access seats by law, the ADA to be exact. But, since you can throw stones about revenue management being amateurs, I am sure you knew that already.



That is correct it’s an ADA thing.


If it really is an "ADA thing", then why can e.g. Swiss charge extra for their "throne seats"?? ADA applies to all flights of U.S. airlines, but also to flights to or from the United States by foreign airlines.
Same goes with BA. They also charge different amounts to select different J seats.

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsu ... sabilities
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:36 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
fastmover wrote:
mjzair wrote:

JetBlue cannot charge more for the single access seats by law, the ADA to be exact. But, since you can throw stones about revenue management being amateurs, I am sure you knew that already.



That is correct it’s an ADA thing.


If it really is an "ADA thing", then why can e.g. Swiss charge extra for their "throne seats"?? ADA applies to all flights of U.S. airlines, but also to flights to or from the United States by foreign airlines.
Same goes with BA. They also charge different amounts to select different J seats.

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsu ... sabilities



I don’t know about SWISS. But the guy I talked with who helped build and manage mint said they couldn’t charge more because it would discriminate. So if you are disabled and want mint but you have to pay more for the solo seat with better acces to aisle (vs the twin mint seats) that is apparently a problem. I don’t know the exact rules but I can tell you ADA is pretty powerful. If it comes down to an issue with a disabled pax there are all kinds of guides you need to follow and you better not get it wrong. (Not saying that in a rude disrespectful way)


But if not why wouldn’t they charge more?
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:40 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Comparisons between carriers is natural. It’s the over-zealous criticisms that seem a bit gratuitous and out of place. Most of us just want to have intelligent dialogue without this sort of comparative vitriol that a few bring in.

Financially, we are going to have high expectations from an investors perspective. However, how people can sit and cast stones at a carrier that is being dragged to the bottom rather than leading to the bottom is laughable. They are literally damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Look at the 18 years they’ve been in business. Not all roses but they’ve done great overall in bringing a value to the industry. 18 years ago DL was exiting the 90’s - not their best decade - and we’re heading for bankruptcy. They had Delta. They had Delta Express. They had Song. They loved Portland. They hated Portland. They joined with another BK carrier, wiped away all their mistakes and got a do-over. As Obama might say to current Delta mgmt “You didn’t build that”. Oh well. That’s not to criticize them - it’s to give a fuller picture. But for some it’s nice to cast stones when living in glass houses.



Exactly correct. You need to look at the history and keep perspective.
Thank you for a great post.
 
impilot
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:38 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:42 pm

How is the aisle of the 2 seat mint space less accessible than the single suite? I don’t buy it. Normal coach aisle seats comply with ADA issues. Not doubting someone has said this is why they don’t charge more, or even that it’s true, but I don’t see how that can be justified. Aisle access in any aisle mint seat, especially row 1, seems about as accessible as it gets.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3514
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:48 pm

fastmover wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
fastmover wrote:


That is correct it’s an ADA thing.


If it really is an "ADA thing", then why can e.g. Swiss charge extra for their "throne seats"?? ADA applies to all flights of U.S. airlines, but also to flights to or from the United States by foreign airlines.
Same goes with BA. They also charge different amounts to select different J seats.

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsu ... sabilities



I don’t know about SWISS. But the guy I talked with who helped build and manage mint said they couldn’t charge more because it would discriminate. So if you are disabled and want mint but you have to pay more for the solo seat with better acces to aisle (vs the twin mint seats) that is apparently a problem. I don’t know the exact rules but I can tell you ADA is pretty powerful. If it comes down to an issue with a disabled pax there are all kinds of guides you need to follow and you better not get it wrong. (Not saying that in a rude disrespectful way)


But if not why wouldn’t they charge more?


This is quite interesting. Had no idea this was the reason the reason they don't charge more for the solo seats. I still think they should do more to monetize upgrade opportunities from coach to Y+ and J.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1676
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:11 pm

tphuang wrote:
fastmover wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

If it really is an "ADA thing", then why can e.g. Swiss charge extra for their "throne seats"?? ADA applies to all flights of U.S. airlines, but also to flights to or from the United States by foreign airlines.
Same goes with BA. They also charge different amounts to select different J seats.

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsu ... sabilities



I don’t know about SWISS. But the guy I talked with who helped build and manage mint said they couldn’t charge more because it would discriminate. So if you are disabled and want mint but you have to pay more for the solo seat with better acces to aisle (vs the twin mint seats) that is apparently a problem. I don’t know the exact rules but I can tell you ADA is pretty powerful. If it comes down to an issue with a disabled pax there are all kinds of guides you need to follow and you better not get it wrong. (Not saying that in a rude disrespectful way)


But if not why wouldn’t they charge more?


This is quite interesting. Had no idea this was the reason they don't charge more for the solo seats. I still think they should do more to monetize upgrade opportunities from coach to Y+ and J.


ALLEGED reason.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:55 pm

fastmover wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Comparisons between carriers is natural. It’s the over-zealous criticisms that seem a bit gratuitous and out of place. Most of us just want to have intelligent dialogue without this sort of comparative vitriol that a few bring in.

Financially, we are going to have high expectations from an investors perspective. However, how people can sit and cast stones at a carrier that is being dragged to the bottom rather than leading to the bottom is laughable. They are literally damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Look at the 18 years they’ve been in business. Not all roses but they’ve done great overall in bringing a value to the industry. 18 years ago DL was exiting the 90’s - not their best decade - and we’re heading for bankruptcy. They had Delta. They had Delta Express. They had Song. They loved Portland. They hated Portland. They joined with another BK carrier, wiped away all their mistakes and got a do-over. As Obama might say to current Delta mgmt “You didn’t build that”. Oh well. That’s not to criticize them - it’s to give a fuller picture. But for some it’s nice to cast stones when living in glass houses.



Exactly correct. You need to look at the history and keep perspective.
Thank you for a great post.


hardly a meaningful comparison, especially when each of the big US3 have been around since the 1920's. Talk to me in another 75 years and we'll see where JetBlue is at.
 
richierich
Posts: 3601
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:06 pm

jumbojet wrote:
hardly a meaningful comparison, especially when each of the big US3 have been around since the 1920's. Talk to me in another 75 years and we'll see where JetBlue is at.


No airlines (as we know them) will be around in 75 years.
Last edited by richierich on Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
None shall pass!!!!
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:24 pm

jumbojet wrote:
fastmover wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Comparisons between carriers is natural. It’s the over-zealous criticisms that seem a bit gratuitous and out of place. Most of us just want to have intelligent dialogue without this sort of comparative vitriol that a few bring in.

Financially, we are going to have high expectations from an investors perspective. However, how people can sit and cast stones at a carrier that is being dragged to the bottom rather than leading to the bottom is laughable. They are literally damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Look at the 18 years they’ve been in business. Not all roses but they’ve done great overall in bringing a value to the industry. 18 years ago DL was exiting the 90’s - not their best decade - and we’re heading for bankruptcy. They had Delta. They had Delta Express. They had Song. They loved Portland. They hated Portland. They joined with another BK carrier, wiped away all their mistakes and got a do-over. As Obama might say to current Delta mgmt “You didn’t build that”. Oh well. That’s not to criticize them - it’s to give a fuller picture. But for some it’s nice to cast stones when living in glass houses.



Exactly correct. You need to look at the history and keep perspective.
Thank you for a great post.


hardly a meaningful comparison, especially when each of the big US3 have been around since the 1920's. Talk to me in another 75 years and we'll see where JetBlue is at.




Thank you you made my point. It’s hardly meaningful to compare a 75 year old airline to an 18 year old.
Thanks.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:25 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
fastmover wrote:


I don’t know about SWISS. But the guy I talked with who helped build and manage mint said they couldn’t charge more because it would discriminate. So if you are disabled and want mint but you have to pay more for the solo seat with better acces to aisle (vs the twin mint seats) that is apparently a problem. I don’t know the exact rules but I can tell you ADA is pretty powerful. If it comes down to an issue with a disabled pax there are all kinds of guides you need to follow and you better not get it wrong. (Not saying that in a rude disrespectful way)


But if not why wouldn’t they charge more?


This is quite interesting. Had no idea this was the reason they don't charge more for the solo seats. I still think they should do more to monetize upgrade opportunities from coach to Y+ and J.


ALLEGED reason.




Fine let’s play the game..

Why would he lie to me?

And

If not true why wouldn’t jetblue charge more?
 
WkndWanderer
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:40 pm

fastmover wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
tphuang wrote:

This is quite interesting. Had no idea this was the reason they don't charge more for the solo seats. I still think they should do more to monetize upgrade opportunities from coach to Y+ and J.


ALLEGED reason.




Fine let’s play the game..

Why would he lie to me?

And

If not true why wouldn’t jetblue charge more?


The ADA doesn't regulate air transportation. The Air Carrier Access Act lays out accessibility requirements, it doesn't allow airlines to discriminate against who can sit in any particular seat excluding safety reasons (e.g. exit row), but I'm not aware of any restrictions on how they price certain types of seats, airlines charge more for aisle access and bulkhead seats that could be deemed more easily accessible all the time.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:45 pm

All of this "the sky is falling" comments are hilarious. The airline is profitable and continues to make improvements. Seems like it wasn't too long ago, people were excited when DL/UA/AA or any of the big boys didn't post record losses. It seems like not too long ago, people got excited when their big boys finally turned a profit.

Fast forward to 2018, and B6 is going down and falling apart because the profit wasn't comparable to the big boys numbers. I personally think for an airline that started shortly before this nation was on its knees, survived a horrific economic collapse, and survived insane fuel prices that knocked a few big names out..... And continues to make profits..... To be a pretty successful airline. Might as well get this out of the way!!!

Congrats to JetBlue for once again running a profitable airline. Congrats to JetBlue for still providing a great way to fly, when most airlines are cramming their customers into a seat that a child could barely sit in. Congrats to JetBlue for still providing entertainment options to its customers. Congrats on the C-Series orders! JetBlue isnt going anywhere but up. No the airline doesnt have 700 planes, and a 70 year history. But, JetBlue sure knows how to provide service, and a well run airline.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6187
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:50 pm

F9Animal wrote:
Fast forward to 2018, and B6 is going down and falling apart because the profit wasn't comparable to the big boys numbers. I personally think for an airline that started shortly before this nation was on its knees, survived a horrific economic collapse, and survived insane fuel prices that knocked a few big names out..... And continues to make profits..... To be a pretty successful airline. Might as well get this out of the way!!!


JetBlue is 88% owned by institutional investors, according to NASDAQ. If you think those investors will sit patiently by with some profit/below average profit you don't know how institutional investing works.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:55 pm

WkndWanderer wrote:
fastmover wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

ALLEGED reason.




Fine let’s play the game..

Why would he lie to me?

And

If not true why wouldn’t jetblue charge more?


The ADA doesn't regulate air transportation. The Air Carrier Access Act lays out accessibility requirements, it doesn't allow airlines to discriminate against who can sit in any particular seat excluding safety reasons (e.g. exit row), but I'm not aware of any restrictions on how they price certain types of seats, airlines charge more for aisle access and bulkhead seats that could be deemed more easily accessible all the time.


OK let me dig and find out.
 
evank516
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:02 pm

F9Animal wrote:
All of this "the sky is falling" comments are hilarious. The airline is profitable and continues to make improvements. Seems like it wasn't too long ago, people were excited when DL/UA/AA or any of the big boys didn't post record losses. It seems like not too long ago, people got excited when their big boys finally turned a profit.

Fast forward to 2018, and B6 is going down and falling apart because the profit wasn't comparable to the big boys numbers. I personally think for an airline that started shortly before this nation was on its knees, survived a horrific economic collapse, and survived insane fuel prices that knocked a few big names out..... And continues to make profits..... To be a pretty successful airline. Might as well get this out of the way!!!

Congrats to JetBlue for once again running a profitable airline. Congrats to JetBlue for still providing a great way to fly, when most airlines are cramming their customers into a seat that a child could barely sit in. Congrats to JetBlue for still providing entertainment options to its customers. Congrats on the C-Series orders! JetBlue isnt going anywhere but up. No the airline doesnt have 700 planes, and a 70 year history. But, JetBlue sure knows how to provide service, and a well run airline.


I'll agree, jetBlue isn't going anywhere. However I think the way jetBlue is operated is going to change. I think their product is going to change. Profits are dynamic, sometimes they're big, sometimes they're small. Smaller profits don't necessarily mean disaster, I'll agree. Having flown primarily Delta and jetBlue over the past two years I do have to compare the two:
1) Delta's Economy Product is actually on par with jetBlue now. I don't find their coach seats cramped, and Delta is quickly expanding its entertainment options on board its mainline flights. They only have 3 aircraft types that lack the same type of entertainment that jetBlue has: MD-88, MD-90, and 717. The former of which will be exiting the fleet shortly. HOWEVER, with Delta Studio available on almost all WiFi equipped aircraft, the entertainment is available again even on these aircraft types, you just need to use your own device. Delta also has power outlets on board most of its aircraft now too so that's not an issue. jetBlue's idea of PTVs on board all of its aircraft was certainly innovative and helped to reinvent the economy product for sure, but many airlines followed suit and nowadays that no longer separates them from all of their competition.
2) Unless you're flying throughout the Northeast, to a major city in Florida, Caribbean, or on a transcon to the West Coast, ya can't really get much out of jetBlue because they don't fly to all of the areas in between. In fact, everywhere I go, jetBlue doesn't fly (or will soon cease flying), and I live in NY. Yes, the A220s will hopefully be a game changer for them. I really hope this bodes well for them, and I honestly hope that it will allow them to reintroduce markets that they're cutting or have already cut. However, jetBlue's routes are still very limited IMO. I give them props for starting ATL and MSP in recent years, but they have a lot of holes and I don't think those holes can be filled with their current business model. Delta relies much more on hub and spoke which allows them access to many more markets in those in between places and helps serve the travelers' needs much better than jetBlue does. While jetBlue may come across as hub and spoke in some ways, they don't rely on it as much as the major network carriers, but maybe they should give it a whirl.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3514
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:14 pm

The thing is they cannot add more flights to jfk at the moment. If slot constraints are loosened then that could happen. But until then, they will put it in places that can generate higher profits. Those are going to be Caribbean, transcon and Florida stuff. Due to lack of slots at lga, they simply can’t be competitive to businesses travelers in middle of the country. It has nothing to do with truing to ignore that. If they had enough lga slots, they would have more flights to Chicago or Detroit or Cleveland.

They do seem to do pretty well on those twice daily schedules to places with large demand. There are always enough people willing to pay premium to go to jfk to fly JetBlue. So if they can get more slots, I can see them adding Dallas, more flights to Houston, Denver, Nashville and such. But it will never be business schedule.

If they somehow get more lga slots, they need to get in the dc and ord shuttle ASAP.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:26 pm

jumbojet wrote:
fastmover wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Comparisons between carriers is natural. It’s the over-zealous criticisms that seem a bit gratuitous and out of place. Most of us just want to have intelligent dialogue without this sort of comparative vitriol that a few bring in.

Financially, we are going to have high expectations from an investors perspective. However, how people can sit and cast stones at a carrier that is being dragged to the bottom rather than leading to the bottom is laughable. They are literally damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Look at the 18 years they’ve been in business. Not all roses but they’ve done great overall in bringing a value to the industry. 18 years ago DL was exiting the 90’s - not their best decade - and we’re heading for bankruptcy. They had Delta. They had Delta Express. They had Song. They loved Portland. They hated Portland. They joined with another BK carrier, wiped away all their mistakes and got a do-over. As Obama might say to current Delta mgmt “You didn’t build that”. Oh well. That’s not to criticize them - it’s to give a fuller picture. But for some it’s nice to cast stones when living in glass houses.



Exactly correct. You need to look at the history and keep perspective.
Thank you for a great post.


hardly a meaningful comparison, especially when each of the big US3 have been around since the 1920's. Talk to me in another 75 years and we'll see where JetBlue is at.


I think the takeaway is that it’s pointless to talk to you because you’re a predictable broken record. But here you are again, proving that some people can’t help themselves. Let’s not talk about any of DL’s skeletons - let’s now talk about which carrier is older. Lol
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1201
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:35 pm

I really hope JetBlue doesn't mess with their Even More Space seats. IMO, it's one of the best values in US commercial aviation and it's worth the additional cost.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1581
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:20 pm

B752OS wrote:
I really hope JetBlue doesn't mess with their Even More Space seats. IMO, it's one of the best values in US commercial aviation and it's worth the additional cost.
I think this virtually guarantees they will. One of the best values in commercial aviation=we should charge more for this product.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
impilot
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:38 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:27 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
B752OS wrote:
I really hope JetBlue doesn't mess with their Even More Space seats. IMO, it's one of the best values in US commercial aviation and it's worth the additional cost.
I think this virtually guarantees they will. One of the best values in commercial aviation=we should charge more for this product.


Lots of these seats go unsold. I think they need to add more value to it...something like delta’s comfort+. Better/separate snack options, maybe a free drink or two, etc.
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3487
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:29 pm

I don't really see the problem with these results. Revenue is up. Income is down but that's because variable costs outside of their control are up. Adding more seats to their planes isn't going to lower the cost of fuel.

Bottom line is they're profitable and growing. Revenue and fixed costs are the things to really worry about with any business; those are the things within a company's direct control. All airlines can really do about fuel costs and taxes are to hedge and move.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!

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