nine4nine wrote:

[
Product- Deffinately not a problem. Mint blows the doors off of any other domestic F product hands down and is very profitable for B6. They could use a softer business of Mint for the rest of the fleet. Joining the club with basic economy will help.

.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Better than expected, but that’s not saying much.

Great recap by Skift and interesting comments about Boston:

https://skift.com/2018/10/23/jetblues-b ... in-boston/

Delta, as it often does when it grows in a competitive market, has been gently tweaking JetBlue, mainly in press releases.

While JetBlue is larger in Boston, Delta has been differentiating itself by calling itself, “Boston’s No. 1 global carrier.” It has been adding long-haul flights to Europe, and by next summer will fly to London, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Amsterdam, Dublin and Paris. Delta also has been promoting its, “unmatched reliability” — JetBlue tends to be in the bottom of the pack on on-time performance — and its “renowned customer service.”

“To fly business class from JFK or New York to Heathrow is $8,000, if you went today and booked a flight,” Joanna Geraghty, JetBlue’s president, said last month at Skift Global Forum. “I don’t know about you, but I’m not paying $8,000.”

jumbojet wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Better than expected, but that’s not saying much.

Great recap by Skift and interesting comments about Boston:

https://skift.com/2018/10/23/jetblues-b ... in-boston/

Best quote from the article

Delta, as it often does when it grows in a competitive market, has been gently tweaking JetBlue, mainly in press releases.

While JetBlue is larger in Boston, Delta has been differentiating itself by calling itself, “Boston’s No. 1 global carrier.” It has been adding long-haul flights to Europe, and by next summer will fly to London, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Amsterdam, Dublin and Paris. Delta also has been promoting its, “unmatched reliability” — JetBlue tends to be in the bottom of the pack on on-time performance — and its “renowned customer service.”

Here's another quote that you gotta laugh at.

“To fly business class from JFK or New York to Heathrow is $8,000, if you went today and booked a flight,” Joanna Geraghty, JetBlue’s president, said last month at Skift Global Forum. “I don’t know about you, but I’m not paying $8,000.”

But if she 'went today' she'll pay $3,500 to fly JetBlue MINT JFK-LAX ?

fastmover wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Better than expected, but that’s not saying much.

Great recap by Skift and interesting comments about Boston:

https://skift.com/2018/10/23/jetblues-b ... in-boston/

Best quote from the article

Delta, as it often does when it grows in a competitive market, has been gently tweaking JetBlue, mainly in press releases.

While JetBlue is larger in Boston, Delta has been differentiating itself by calling itself, “Boston’s No. 1 global carrier.” It has been adding long-haul flights to Europe, and by next summer will fly to London, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Amsterdam, Dublin and Paris. Delta also has been promoting its, “unmatched reliability” — JetBlue tends to be in the bottom of the pack on on-time performance — and its “renowned customer service.”

Here's another quote that you gotta laugh at.

“To fly business class from JFK or New York to Heathrow is $8,000, if you went today and booked a flight,” Joanna Geraghty, JetBlue’s president, said last month at Skift Global Forum. “I don’t know about you, but I’m not paying $8,000.”

But if she 'went today' she'll pay $3,500 to fly JetBlue MINT JFK-LAX ?

I don’t know 8000 vs 3500 seems to be a big difference.

Also I don’t think JetBlue is bottom of the pack in customer service. But you must love this article

jumbojet wrote:

fastmover wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

Best quote from the article



Here's another quote that you gotta laugh at.



But if she 'went today' she'll pay $3,500 to fly JetBlue MINT JFK-LAX ?

I don’t know 8000 vs 3500 seems to be a big difference.

Also I don’t think JetBlue is bottom of the pack in customer service. But you must love this article

LHR and LAX are a big difference; two totally and completely different markets. But there's more.

Point being, which you missed, When B6 started MINT, them charging $3700 for a RT JFK-LAX fare was unheard of. The big boys did it but now that B6 knows they can get the same money, they are doing it. You don't think for one second that several years down the road, after B6 starts service to London, that they won't be asking something in the neighborhood of $8,000 RT for a last minute JFK-LON fare?

stlgph wrote:

OzarkD9S wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Boston is under attack from Delta. New York is hyper competitive. Long Beach is a freaking disaster that they have no answer to. Spirit just announced a huge expansion in Orlando. Fort Lauderdale is hyper competitive.

When you say New York is hyper competitive are you including AA? You have implied in the past that AA has withered on the vine in NYC and to an extent they have, but they're still a decent #2 in LGA and are not totally dead in the water in JFK. While I appreciate your insight into the NYC state of things I don't always agree with some of your opinions. Not trying to poke the bear here but is AA a competitive factor regarding your opinion of B6's current situation?

JB needs to go back to the basics and focus on what made it good in the first place - shuttling people from the northeast/NYC to Florida/Sun. It's time to get creative. There's no shortage of people up and about at all times of the day in the city that never sleeps, how about adding some 2am or 3am flights down to the sun. Spirit's made it work with their odd schedules, proved that people are willing to do it. JFK sits on a metro of how many million people? The idea - build more revenue opportunities.

Also, I'd be looking at the partnerships. Are all these partnerships worth it? Do the math - TAP, Hawaii, and Aer Lingus all take up gate space in T5 at JFK for a number of hours per day. Is it worth it? If they get sent over to T4 or T7 - is it possible to add flights at those times? Is it worth it? How does the math add up?

Start there, and do a long, hard serious comb through the personnel roster. A nice number of the people and job titles you see on a basic scroll of LinkedIn - you have to wonder what in the hell the purpose of said job is.

stlgph wrote:

OzarkD9S wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Boston is under attack from Delta. New York is hyper competitive. Long Beach is a freaking disaster that they have no answer to. Spirit just announced a huge expansion in Orlando. Fort Lauderdale is hyper competitive.

When you say New York is hyper competitive are you including AA? You have implied in the past that AA has withered on the vine in NYC and to an extent they have, but they're still a decent #2 in LGA and are not totally dead in the water in JFK. While I appreciate your insight into the NYC state of things I don't always agree with some of your opinions. Not trying to poke the bear here but is AA a competitive factor regarding your opinion of B6's current situation?

JB needs to go back to the basics and focus on what made it good in the first place - shuttling people from the northeast/NYC to Florida/Sun. It's time to get creative. There's no shortage of people up and about at all times of the day in the city that never sleeps, how about adding some 2am or 3am flights down to the sun. Spirit's made it work with their odd schedules, proved that people are willing to do it. JFK sits on a metro of how many million people? The idea - build more revenue opportunities.

Also, I'd be looking at the partnerships. Are all these partnerships worth it? Do the math - TAP, Hawaii, and Aer Lingus all take up gate space in T5 at JFK for a number of hours per day. Is it worth it? If they get sent over to T4 or T7 - is it possible to add flights at those times? Is it worth it? How does the math add up?

Start there, and do a long, hard serious comb through the personnel roster. A nice number of the people and job titles you see on a basic scroll of LinkedIn - you have to wonder what in the hell the purpose of said job is.

stlgph wrote:

Yes, clearly having all these partner airlines has done brilliance for the bottom line, as evident by the last several years of financial reports.
They'd be much better off focusing on their own business rather than focusing on being someone else's bitch. They need to do more to dictate their own revenue stream.

And there's no way in hell 12 new gates will magically show up on the old ground of the old Terminal 6 by 2020.

Next, please.

jumbojet wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Better than expected, but that’s not saying much.

Great recap by Skift and interesting comments about Boston:

https://skift.com/2018/10/23/jetblues-b ... in-boston/

Best quote from the article

Delta, as it often does when it grows in a competitive market, has been gently tweaking JetBlue, mainly in press releases.

While JetBlue is larger in Boston, Delta has been differentiating itself by calling itself, “Boston’s No. 1 global carrier.” It has been adding long-haul flights to Europe, and by next summer will fly to London, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Amsterdam, Dublin and Paris. Delta also has been promoting its, “unmatched reliability” — JetBlue tends to be in the bottom of the pack on on-time performance — and its “renowned customer service.”

Here's another quote that you gotta laugh at.

“To fly business class from JFK or New York to Heathrow is $8,000, if you went today and booked a flight,” Joanna Geraghty, JetBlue’s president, said last month at Skift Global Forum. “I don’t know about you, but I’m not paying $8,000.”

But if she 'went today' she'll pay $3,500 to fly JetBlue MINT JFK-LAX ?

Sancho99504 wrote:

I lived in Chicago when B6 decided to add flights to JFK and LGB. Had I not been working for the company that was picked to run their ground handling at ORD and ANET, I would never have known that they started any kind of service. I tried their ORD-JFK service and enjoyed it.


They have a better product and service than the legacies. They have competitive fares in markets they compete against the legacies. So what if they have large FF bases in flyover country. Didn't CO and AA have large FF groups in the cities that B6 started flying to when they opened up shop? Many people in flyover country don't have a choice and B6 could and would make money in flyover country.
WN has a competitive product against the legacies and can hold their own against B6 opening up shop.

The point is, everyone still acts like there aren't anyone in flyover country, and the ones that are there, are just country bumpkins who don't fly anyway. I'm not saying they should open a hub and start flying HYS-XYZ or EKO-XYZ, but they would open new markets, new revenue and with hard work, more profit.

Abeam79 wrote:

stlgph wrote:

Yes, clearly having all these partner airlines has done brilliance for the bottom line, as evident by the last several years of financial reports.
They'd be much better off focusing on their own business rather than focusing on being someone else's bitch. They need to do more to dictate their own revenue stream.

And there's no way in hell 12 new gates will magically show up on the old ground of the old Terminal 6 by 2020.

Next, please.

Next indeed, between you and jumbo, whats your obsession by 2020? They will have more real estate at JFK than Delta can even dream of, and they will have a optional schedule to do long haul between their own and the partner airlines. Same as Boston, JetBlue has first rights on new gates that will be expanded in Boston and they can do enough between pre-clearance at UK/EU and swapping gates schedules that they have partnered out of E (IE Icelandair, TAP, Aer Lingus, Emirates, etc) They have more upper hand than your precious Delta.

jumbojet wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Better than expected, but that’s not saying much.

Great recap by Skift and interesting comments about Boston:

https://skift.com/2018/10/23/jetblues-b ... in-boston/

Best quote from the article

Delta, as it often does when it grows in a competitive market, has been gently tweaking JetBlue, mainly in press releases.

While JetBlue is larger in Boston, Delta has been differentiating itself by calling itself, “Boston’s No. 1 global carrier.” It has been adding long-haul flights to Europe, and by next summer will fly to London, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Amsterdam, Dublin and Paris. Delta also has been promoting its, “unmatched reliability” — JetBlue tends to be in the bottom of the pack on on-time performance — and its “renowned customer service.”

Here's another quote that you gotta laugh at.

“To fly business class from JFK or New York to Heathrow is $8,000, if you went today and booked a flight,” Joanna Geraghty, JetBlue’s president, said last month at Skift Global Forum. “I don’t know about you, but I’m not paying $8,000.”

But if she 'went today' she'll pay $3,500 to fly JetBlue MINT JFK-LAX ?

The only one who getting laughed at here is you. Just get over it, you don't like how JetBlue has given Delta a run for their money, have you looked at Delta's Yields out of Boston? Delta is losing money by the tonne, so please spare us.

jfklganyc wrote:

Considering what Delta just reported...This is another mediocre quarter for B6.

They are going to be under intense pressure from wall street to do something… Soon

Abeam79 wrote:

stlgph wrote:

The only one who getting laughed at here is you. Just get over it, you don't like how JetBlue has given Delta a run for their money, have you looked at Delta's Yields out of Boston? Delta is losing money by the tonne, so please spare us.

Abeam79 wrote:

[ The only one who getting laughed at here is you. Just get over it, you don't like how JetBlue has given Delta a run for their money, have you looked at Delta's Yields out of Boston? Delta is losing money by the tonne, so please spare us.

N766UA wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Considering what Delta just reported...This is another mediocre quarter for B6.

They are going to be under intense pressure from wall street to do something… Soon

Jetblue isn’t Delta?

jumbojet wrote:

Abeam79 wrote:

[ The only one who getting laughed at here is you. Just get over it, you don't like how JetBlue has given Delta a run for their money, have you looked at Delta's Yields out of Boston? Delta is losing money by the tonne, so please spare us.

please enlighten me with facts on hpw Delta is losing money by the tonne in Boston. Remember, Q3 earnings, DL 1.6 BILLION, B6 90 million. Overall, and thats what matters here, DL makes a mockery of B6 financially.


As far as gates go at JFK, again, show me where it says B6 will wind up with more gates at JFK than DL. And, even if they do, good for them. Doesnt really mean a thing. Especially when every gate, if occupied by a B6 pplane will be nothing bigger than an A321

N766UA wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Considering what Delta just reported...This is another mediocre quarter for B6.

They are going to be under intense pressure from wall street to do something… Soon

Jetblue isn’t Delta?

Prost wrote:

Sancho99504 wrote:

I lived in Chicago when B6 decided to add flights to JFK and LGB. Had I not been working for the company that was picked to run their ground handling at ORD and ANET, I would never have known that they started any kind of service. I tried their ORD-JFK service and enjoyed it.


They have a better product and service than the legacies. They have competitive fares in markets they compete against the legacies. So what if they have large FF bases in flyover country. Didn't CO and AA have large FF groups in the cities that B6 started flying to when they opened up shop? Many people in flyover country don't have a choice and B6 could and would make money in flyover country.
WN has a competitive product against the legacies and can hold their own against B6 opening up shop.

The point is, everyone still acts like there aren't anyone in flyover country, and the ones that are there, are just country bumpkins who don't fly anyway. I'm not saying they should open a hub and start flying HYS-XYZ or EKO-XYZ, but they would open new markets, new revenue and with hard work, more profit.

Myself and several people think the exact opposite that the middle of America is where B6 can make a lot of money. I don’t want to see anymore consolidation, but if B6 and AS we’re able to have a couple of shared mid continent hubs with a tight codeshare or JV like CO & NW once had, I think it could be successful. B6 running mid continent east and AS running mid continent west, and they each keep their transcon markets.

The problem is Wall Street would be apoplectic over each carriers growth running higher than GDP.

6YBLUE wrote:

stlgph wrote:

OzarkD9S wrote:

When you say New York is hyper competitive are you including AA? You have implied in the past that AA has withered on the vine in NYC and to an extent they have, but they're still a decent #2 in LGA and are not totally dead in the water in JFK. While I appreciate your insight into the NYC state of things I don't always agree with some of your opinions. Not trying to poke the bear here but is AA a competitive factor regarding your opinion of B6's current situation?

JB needs to go back to the basics and focus on what made it good in the first place - shuttling people from the northeast/NYC to Florida/Sun. It's time to get creative. There's no shortage of people up and about at all times of the day in the city that never sleeps, how about adding some 2am or 3am flights down to the sun. Spirit's made it work with their odd schedules, proved that people are willing to do it. JFK sits on a metro of how many million people? The idea - build more revenue opportunities.

Also, I'd be looking at the partnerships. Are all these partnerships worth it? Do the math - TAP, Hawaii, and Aer Lingus all take up gate space in T5 at JFK for a number of hours per day. Is it worth it? If they get sent over to T4 or T7 - is it possible to add flights at those times? Is it worth it? How does the math add up?

Start there, and do a long, hard serious comb through the personnel roster. A nice number of the people and job titles you see on a basic scroll of LinkedIn - you have to wonder what in the hell the purpose of said job is.

They need more not less partner airlines. Its cheaper than running your own metal. 12 wide body gates at T6 will be built by 2020

stlgph wrote:

What's being forgotten about in the BOS/LHR/Europe on JetBlue discussion is the fact they're being boxed into very narrow windows for Terminal E in Boston, thanks in part, to recent actions by Delta and their partners.

Korean Air - taking up at 1030 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. window.
KLM - taking up a 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. window.

Delta's new Edinburgh and Lisbon additions? Taking up 1:00 p.m. windows.

The goal for the opening of a second major Terminal E expansion is still what ... 2 1/2 years away?

jumbojet wrote:

please enlighten me with facts on hpw Delta is losing money by the tonne in Boston. Remember, Q3 earnings, DL 1.6 BILLION, B6 90 million. Overall, and thats what matters here, DL makes a mockery of B6 financially.


As far as gates go at JFK, again, show me where it says B6 will wind up with more gates at JFK than DL. And, even if they do, good for them. Doesnt really mean a thing. Especially when every gate, if occupied by a B6 pplane will be nothing bigger than an A321

jumbojet wrote:

Abeam79 wrote:

[ The only one who getting laughed at here is you. Just get over it, you don't like how JetBlue has given Delta a run for their money, have you looked at Delta's Yields out of Boston? Delta is losing money by the tonne, so please spare us.

please enlighten me with facts on hpw Delta is losing money by the tonne in Boston. Remember, Q3 earnings, DL 1.6 BILLION, B6 90 million. Overall, and thats what matters here, DL makes a mockery of B6 financially.

tphuang wrote:

stlgph wrote:

What's being forgotten about in the BOS/LHR/Europe on JetBlue discussion is the fact they're being boxed into very narrow windows for Terminal E in Boston, thanks in part, to recent actions by Delta and their partners.

Korean Air - taking up at 1030 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. window.
KLM - taking up a 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. window.

Delta's new Edinburgh and Lisbon additions? Taking up 1:00 p.m. windows.

The goal for the opening of a second major Terminal E expansion is still what ... 2 1/2 years away?

They get more than just E1 actually. They also use E3 and E4 for departures during winter season. They also operate quite a few international flights out of BOS that would require E gate access on arrival, especially during winter season. And they've had no issues adding more international flights as we've seen in their recent announcement. They will probably start off with at most 2 flights to London and 1 flight to Dublin, E1 and E3 should be sufficient for that. All those money loosing flights out of ORH aren't done out of charity. The bigger issue is getting slots at London airports.

jumbojet wrote:

please enlighten me with facts on hpw Delta is losing money by the tonne in Boston. Remember, Q3 earnings, DL 1.6 BILLION, B6 90 million. Overall, and thats what matters here, DL makes a mockery of B6 financially.


As far as gates go at JFK, again, show me where it says B6 will wind up with more gates at JFK than DL. And, even if they do, good for them. Doesnt really mean a thing. Especially when every gate, if occupied by a B6 pplane will be nothing bigger than an A321

Yes, DL is a very profitable company. It makes a lot of money in its fortress hubs which allow it to engage in market share battles at NYC/SEA/BOS/LAX.

I've posted the BOS numbers on the JetBlue thread. It should be pretty obvious that DL is making money on limited routes out of BOS (I'm guessing DTW/RDU/IND/CVG/CMH is it). I don't know why this is such a surprise. They lost a lot of money building up JFK and still loose money on a lot of routes there. Same with SEA. There is no magic formula here. Building up new station costs money. B6 is seeing a lot of leisure markets (Florida + Carribbean) out of BOS with depressed yield since DL entrance. Keep in mind that B6 is still getting higher yield than DL to these market despite operating much lower cost and higher capacity aircraft.

I don't know what DL's loss tolerance is for routes it adds during build up phase, but the numbers to SFO/PIT/BUF are just really terrible. It's not a surprise to me that there is no more D1 on SFO. I don't see how that route last another year. Their new approach is to go with high density B757 with a single daily frequency (with no sunday flights) in winter time against 5 or 6 flights a day each from UA/B6 both with much better products. And the numbers for LAX and SEA are only mildly better.

lightsaber wrote:

Basic economy is a must. Too much of the market has gone there. B6 must shrink pitch to motivate buying even more space.

avi8 wrote:

They are doing something. It seems like the E190 is anchoring them; which is why they will replace them completely. They are adding more seats to the A320 and charging more for checked bags, but things take time.

The E190 has been a disaster. However waiting on the A220s is wise.

I love flying B6, but they are amateurs in yeild management.

Lightsaber

tphuang wrote:

JetBlue on the other hand doesn’t even charge more for the mint suites when pretty everyone know they are more desirable than the side by side ones.

.

mjzair wrote:

tphuang wrote:

JetBlue on the other hand doesn’t even charge more for the mint suites when pretty everyone know they are more desirable than the side by side ones.

.

JetBlue cannot charge more for the single access seats by law, the ADA to be exact. But, since you can throw stones about revenue management being amateurs, I am sure you knew that already.

fastmover wrote:

mjzair wrote:

tphuang wrote:

JetBlue on the other hand doesn’t even charge more for the mint suites when pretty everyone know they are more desirable than the side by side ones.

.

JetBlue cannot charge more for the single access seats by law, the ADA to be exact. But, since you can throw stones about revenue management being amateurs, I am sure you knew that already.

That is correct it’s an ADA thing.

Dieuwer wrote:

fastmover wrote:

mjzair wrote:

JetBlue cannot charge more for the single access seats by law, the ADA to be exact. But, since you can throw stones about revenue management being amateurs, I am sure you knew that already.

That is correct it’s an ADA thing.

If it really is an "ADA thing", then why can e.g. Swiss charge extra for their "throne seats"?? ADA applies to all flights of U.S. airlines, but also to flights to or from the United States by foreign airlines.
Same goes with BA. They also charge different amounts to select different J seats.

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsu ... sabilities

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Comparisons between carriers is natural. It’s the over-zealous criticisms that seem a bit gratuitous and out of place. Most of us just want to have intelligent dialogue without this sort of comparative vitriol that a few bring in.

Financially, we are going to have high expectations from an investors perspective. However, how people can sit and cast stones at a carrier that is being dragged to the bottom rather than leading to the bottom is laughable. They are literally damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Look at the 18 years they’ve been in business. Not all roses but they’ve done great overall in bringing a value to the industry. 18 years ago DL was exiting the 90’s - not their best decade - and we’re heading for bankruptcy. They had Delta. They had Delta Express. They had Song. They loved Portland. They hated Portland. They joined with another BK carrier, wiped away all their mistakes and got a do-over. As Obama might say to current Delta mgmt “You didn’t build that”. Oh well. That’s not to criticize them - it’s to give a fuller picture. But for some it’s nice to cast stones when living in glass houses.

fastmover wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

fastmover wrote:

That is correct it’s an ADA thing.

If it really is an "ADA thing", then why can e.g. Swiss charge extra for their "throne seats"?? ADA applies to all flights of U.S. airlines, but also to flights to or from the United States by foreign airlines.
Same goes with BA. They also charge different amounts to select different J seats.

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsu ... sabilities

I don’t know about SWISS. But the guy I talked with who helped build and manage mint said they couldn’t charge more because it would discriminate. So if you are disabled and want mint but you have to pay more for the solo seat with better acces to aisle (vs the twin mint seats) that is apparently a problem. I don’t know the exact rules but I can tell you ADA is pretty powerful. If it comes down to an issue with a disabled pax there are all kinds of guides you need to follow and you better not get it wrong. (Not saying that in a rude disrespectful way)


But if not why wouldn’t they charge more?

tphuang wrote:

fastmover wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

If it really is an "ADA thing", then why can e.g. Swiss charge extra for their "throne seats"?? ADA applies to all flights of U.S. airlines, but also to flights to or from the United States by foreign airlines.
Same goes with BA. They also charge different amounts to select different J seats.

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsu ... sabilities

I don’t know about SWISS. But the guy I talked with who helped build and manage mint said they couldn’t charge more because it would discriminate. So if you are disabled and want mint but you have to pay more for the solo seat with better acces to aisle (vs the twin mint seats) that is apparently a problem. I don’t know the exact rules but I can tell you ADA is pretty powerful. If it comes down to an issue with a disabled pax there are all kinds of guides you need to follow and you better not get it wrong. (Not saying that in a rude disrespectful way)


But if not why wouldn’t they charge more?

This is quite interesting. Had no idea this was the reason they don't charge more for the solo seats. I still think they should do more to monetize upgrade opportunities from coach to Y+ and J.

fastmover wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Comparisons between carriers is natural. It’s the over-zealous criticisms that seem a bit gratuitous and out of place. Most of us just want to have intelligent dialogue without this sort of comparative vitriol that a few bring in.

Financially, we are going to have high expectations from an investors perspective. However, how people can sit and cast stones at a carrier that is being dragged to the bottom rather than leading to the bottom is laughable. They are literally damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Look at the 18 years they’ve been in business. Not all roses but they’ve done great overall in bringing a value to the industry. 18 years ago DL was exiting the 90’s - not their best decade - and we’re heading for bankruptcy. They had Delta. They had Delta Express. They had Song. They loved Portland. They hated Portland. They joined with another BK carrier, wiped away all their mistakes and got a do-over. As Obama might say to current Delta mgmt “You didn’t build that”. Oh well. That’s not to criticize them - it’s to give a fuller picture. But for some it’s nice to cast stones when living in glass houses.

Exactly correct. You need to look at the history and keep perspective.
Thank you for a great post.

jumbojet wrote:

hardly a meaningful comparison, especially when each of the big US3 have been around since the 1920's. Talk to me in another 75 years and we'll see where JetBlue is at.

jumbojet wrote:

fastmover wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Comparisons between carriers is natural. It’s the over-zealous criticisms that seem a bit gratuitous and out of place. Most of us just want to have intelligent dialogue without this sort of comparative vitriol that a few bring in.

Financially, we are going to have high expectations from an investors perspective. However, how people can sit and cast stones at a carrier that is being dragged to the bottom rather than leading to the bottom is laughable. They are literally damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Look at the 18 years they’ve been in business. Not all roses but they’ve done great overall in bringing a value to the industry. 18 years ago DL was exiting the 90’s - not their best decade - and we’re heading for bankruptcy. They had Delta. They had Delta Express. They had Song. They loved Portland. They hated Portland. They joined with another BK carrier, wiped away all their mistakes and got a do-over. As Obama might say to current Delta mgmt “You didn’t build that”. Oh well. That’s not to criticize them - it’s to give a fuller picture. But for some it’s nice to cast stones when living in glass houses.

Exactly correct. You need to look at the history and keep perspective.
Thank you for a great post.

hardly a meaningful comparison, especially when each of the big US3 have been around since the 1920's. Talk to me in another 75 years and we'll see where JetBlue is at.

Dieuwer wrote:

tphuang wrote:

fastmover wrote:

I don’t know about SWISS. But the guy I talked with who helped build and manage mint said they couldn’t charge more because it would discriminate. So if you are disabled and want mint but you have to pay more for the solo seat with better acces to aisle (vs the twin mint seats) that is apparently a problem. I don’t know the exact rules but I can tell you ADA is pretty powerful. If it comes down to an issue with a disabled pax there are all kinds of guides you need to follow and you better not get it wrong. (Not saying that in a rude disrespectful way)


But if not why wouldn’t they charge more?

This is quite interesting. Had no idea this was the reason they don't charge more for the solo seats. I still think they should do more to monetize upgrade opportunities from coach to Y+ and J.

ALLEGED reason.

fastmover wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

tphuang wrote:

This is quite interesting. Had no idea this was the reason they don't charge more for the solo seats. I still think they should do more to monetize upgrade opportunities from coach to Y+ and J.

ALLEGED reason.

Fine let’s play the game..

Why would he lie to me?

And

If not true why wouldn’t jetblue charge more?

WkndWanderer wrote:

fastmover wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

ALLEGED reason.

Fine let’s play the game..

Why would he lie to me?

And

If not true why wouldn’t jetblue charge more?

The ADA doesn't regulate air transportation. The Air Carrier Access Act lays out accessibility requirements, it doesn't allow airlines to discriminate against who can sit in any particular seat excluding safety reasons (e.g. exit row), but I'm not aware of any restrictions on how they price certain types of seats, airlines charge more for aisle access and bulkhead seats that could be deemed more easily accessible all the time.

jumbojet wrote:

fastmover wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Comparisons between carriers is natural. It’s the over-zealous criticisms that seem a bit gratuitous and out of place. Most of us just want to have intelligent dialogue without this sort of comparative vitriol that a few bring in.

Financially, we are going to have high expectations from an investors perspective. However, how people can sit and cast stones at a carrier that is being dragged to the bottom rather than leading to the bottom is laughable. They are literally damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Look at the 18 years they’ve been in business. Not all roses but they’ve done great overall in bringing a value to the industry. 18 years ago DL was exiting the 90’s - not their best decade - and we’re heading for bankruptcy. They had Delta. They had Delta Express. They had Song. They loved Portland. They hated Portland. They joined with another BK carrier, wiped away all their mistakes and got a do-over. As Obama might say to current Delta mgmt “You didn’t build that”. Oh well. That’s not to criticize them - it’s to give a fuller picture. But for some it’s nice to cast stones when living in glass houses.

Exactly correct. You need to look at the history and keep perspective.
Thank you for a great post.

hardly a meaningful comparison, especially when each of the big US3 have been around since the 1920's. Talk to me in another 75 years and we'll see where JetBlue is at.

B752OS wrote:

I really hope JetBlue doesn't mess with their Even More Space seats. IMO, it's one of the best values in US commercial aviation and it's worth the additional cost.

cledaybuck wrote:

B752OS wrote:

I really hope JetBlue doesn't mess with their Even More Space seats. IMO, it's one of the best values in US commercial aviation and it's worth the additional cost.

I think this virtually guarantees they will. One of the best values in commercial aviation=we should charge more for this product.