stlgph
Posts: 10990
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:52 pm

tphuang wrote:
stlgph wrote:
What's being forgotten about in the BOS/LHR/Europe on JetBlue discussion is the fact they're being boxed into very narrow windows for Terminal E in Boston, thanks in part, to recent actions by Delta and their partners.

Korean Air - taking up at 1030 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. window.
KLM - taking up a 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. window.

Delta's new Edinburgh and Lisbon additions? Taking up 1:00 p.m. windows.

The goal for the opening of a second major Terminal E expansion is still what ... 2 1/2 years away?


They get more than just E1 actually. They also use E3 and E4 for departures during winter season. They also operate quite a few international flights out of BOS that would require E gate access on arrival, especially during winter season. And they've had no issues adding more international flights as we've seen in their recent announcement. They will probably start off with at most 2 flights to London and 1 flight to Dublin, E1 and E3 should be sufficient for that. All those money loosing flights out of ORH aren't done out of charity. The bigger issue is getting slots at London airports.

jumbojet wrote:
please enlighten me with facts on hpw Delta is losing money by the tonne in Boston. Remember, Q3 earnings, DL 1.6 BILLION, B6 90 million. Overall, and thats what matters here, DL makes a mockery of B6 financially.


As far as gates go at JFK, again, show me where it says B6 will wind up with more gates at JFK than DL. And, even if they do, good for them. Doesnt really mean a thing. Especially when every gate, if occupied by a B6 pplane will be nothing bigger than an A321


Yes, DL is a very profitable company. It makes a lot of money in its fortress hubs which allow it to engage in market share battles at NYC/SEA/BOS/LAX.

I've posted the BOS numbers on the JetBlue thread. It should be pretty obvious that DL is making money on limited routes out of BOS (I'm guessing DTW/RDU/IND/CVG/CMH is it). I don't know why this is such a surprise. They lost a lot of money building up JFK and still loose money on a lot of routes there. Same with SEA. There is no magic formula here. Building up new station costs money. B6 is seeing a lot of leisure markets (Florida + Carribbean) out of BOS with depressed yield since DL entrance. Keep in mind that B6 is still getting higher yield than DL to these market despite operating much lower cost and higher capacity aircraft.

I don't know what DL's loss tolerance is for routes it adds during build up phase, but the numbers to SFO/PIT/BUF are just really terrible. It's not a surprise to me that there is no more D1 on SFO. I don't see how that route last another year. Their new approach is to go with high density B757 with a single daily frequency (with no sunday flights) in winter time against 5 or 6 flights a day each from UA/B6 both with much better products. And the numbers for LAX and SEA are only mildly better.



Again, *read* what I write.

Again, let me repeat myself.

You are missing the point.

Yes, Terminal E has added flights recently - but by whom - Delta and its partners.

Never JetBlue was 100% locked out - I just made mention of the fact, which is true, that right now, the remaining prime time slots at TE in Boston are being gobbled up. KLM swooped up evening primetime, Korean is taking a prime day time day time block, and Delta came in and took two 1pm-ish windows with arrivals coming in from Lisbon and Edinburgh.

Hawaiian just got creative and took a morning spot.


Again, *WHAT* does this mean? Right now, your precious JB is getting *severely* limited and boxed in on being able to operate preferential arrival and departure times if they were to launch any type of European venture, outside of a pre-clearance city such as Dublin or Shannon, unless they want to sit out by a hangar and bring everyone in by bus, which I really, really doubt they have any interest in doing, as they'd rather make a nice impression for such a service.

This is all fact. But please keep coming up with whatever you need to tell yourself in order to survive.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
stlgph
Posts: 10990
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:54 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
Fast forward to 2018, and B6 is going down and falling apart because the profit wasn't comparable to the big boys numbers. I personally think for an airline that started shortly before this nation was on its knees, survived a horrific economic collapse, and survived insane fuel prices that knocked a few big names out..... And continues to make profits..... To be a pretty successful airline. Might as well get this out of the way!!!


JetBlue is 88% owned by institutional investors, according to NASDAQ. If you think those investors will sit patiently by with some profit/below average profit you don't know how institutional investing works.


A complete left field idea - I wonder if they wouldn't see a huge benefit by going private.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
tphuang
Posts: 3489
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:28 pm

stlgph wrote:
tphuang wrote:
stlgph wrote:
What's being forgotten about in the BOS/LHR/Europe on JetBlue discussion is the fact they're being boxed into very narrow windows for Terminal E in Boston, thanks in part, to recent actions by Delta and their partners.

Korean Air - taking up at 1030 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. window.
KLM - taking up a 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. window.

Delta's new Edinburgh and Lisbon additions? Taking up 1:00 p.m. windows.

The goal for the opening of a second major Terminal E expansion is still what ... 2 1/2 years away?


They get more than just E1 actually. They also use E3 and E4 for departures during winter season. They also operate quite a few international flights out of BOS that would require E gate access on arrival, especially during winter season. And they've had no issues adding more international flights as we've seen in their recent announcement. They will probably start off with at most 2 flights to London and 1 flight to Dublin, E1 and E3 should be sufficient for that. All those money loosing flights out of ORH aren't done out of charity. The bigger issue is getting slots at London airports.

jumbojet wrote:
please enlighten me with facts on hpw Delta is losing money by the tonne in Boston. Remember, Q3 earnings, DL 1.6 BILLION, B6 90 million. Overall, and thats what matters here, DL makes a mockery of B6 financially.


As far as gates go at JFK, again, show me where it says B6 will wind up with more gates at JFK than DL. And, even if they do, good for them. Doesnt really mean a thing. Especially when every gate, if occupied by a B6 pplane will be nothing bigger than an A321


Yes, DL is a very profitable company. It makes a lot of money in its fortress hubs which allow it to engage in market share battles at NYC/SEA/BOS/LAX.

I've posted the BOS numbers on the JetBlue thread. It should be pretty obvious that DL is making money on limited routes out of BOS (I'm guessing DTW/RDU/IND/CVG/CMH is it). I don't know why this is such a surprise. They lost a lot of money building up JFK and still loose money on a lot of routes there. Same with SEA. There is no magic formula here. Building up new station costs money. B6 is seeing a lot of leisure markets (Florida + Carribbean) out of BOS with depressed yield since DL entrance. Keep in mind that B6 is still getting higher yield than DL to these market despite operating much lower cost and higher capacity aircraft.

I don't know what DL's loss tolerance is for routes it adds during build up phase, but the numbers to SFO/PIT/BUF are just really terrible. It's not a surprise to me that there is no more D1 on SFO. I don't see how that route last another year. Their new approach is to go with high density B757 with a single daily frequency (with no sunday flights) in winter time against 5 or 6 flights a day each from UA/B6 both with much better products. And the numbers for LAX and SEA are only mildly better.



Again, *read* what I write.

Again, let me repeat myself.

You are missing the point.

Yes, Terminal E has added flights recently - but by whom - Delta and its partners.

Never JetBlue was 100% locked out - I just made mention of the fact, which is true, that right now, the remaining prime time slots at TE in Boston are being gobbled up. KLM swooped up evening primetime, Korean is taking a prime day time day time block, and Delta came in and took two 1pm-ish windows with arrivals coming in from Lisbon and Edinburgh.

Hawaiian just got creative and took a morning spot.


Again, *WHAT* does this mean? Right now, your precious JB is getting *severely* limited and boxed in on being able to operate preferential arrival and departure times if they were to launch any type of European venture, outside of a pre-clearance city such as Dublin or Shannon, unless they want to sit out by a hangar and bring everyone in by bus, which I really, really doubt they have any interest in doing, as they'd rather make a nice impression for such a service.

This is all fact. But please keep coming up with whatever you need to tell yourself in order to survive.


You apparently didn’t read what I wrote. B6 has added quite a few flights to Caribbean for next year out of Boston. Unless those somehow don’t require fis, they will need terminal e access. And last I checked, those dr flights are all arriving at e1 to e4.
So b6 somehow had no problem finding gate space for their arrival. Listening to delta press releases, you would think Latin America doesn’t count as international.

And As I said, they use more than just e1. Unless you think they need more than 2 gates for 3 narrowbody flights from two destinations. So London gets e1. Dublin has pre clearance and can use any gates. What’s the problem? And if they add another destination like bhx or cdg down the road, it will be at least a couple of years after that.
 
stlgph
Posts: 10990
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:47 pm

"What's the problem?"

Jesus. Christ. Man.

For the third time -

the remaining prime time slots at TE in Boston are being gobbled up. KLM swooped up evening primetime, Korean is taking a prime day time day time block, and Delta came in and took two 1pm-ish windows with arrivals coming in from Lisbon and Edinburgh.

Hawaiian just got creative and took a morning spot.

Again, *WHAT* does this mean? Right now, your precious JB is getting *severely* limited and boxed in on being able to operate preferential arrival and departure times if they were to launch any type of European venture, outside of a pre-clearance city such as Dublin or Shannon, unless they want to sit out by a hangar and bring everyone in by bus, which I really, really doubt they have any interest in doing, as they'd rather make a nice impression for such a service.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
tphuang
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:49 pm

Do they or do they not have preferential access to e1? If they do, why can’t they use their own gate for London flights?
 
stlgph
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:55 pm

Tell me about the wonderful window of opportunity they have to operate flights of preferential times to make a London operation work.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
tphuang
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:33 pm

First of all, I carried things way off topic. And I really shouldn't dismiss what you are talking about. I apologize for that. This is last from me.

As for a schedule that will work. Doing a routine search, DL/VS has LHR flights coming in at 12:19 PM and 7:15 PM. BA has 3 flights with one coming in right after noon and 2 in the evening. They can certainly start off with 2 London flights coming in one in the 12 to 2 window and the other in the 6 to 8 window in E1. And for departures, they can leave from any gate.

Just as a comparison, they have very little real estate at LAX. Between the 2 to 3:30 PM window yesterday, they had 3 flights coming in between their 2 gates of 55A and 59. They also had 3 flights coming in between 8:55 and 10:30 AM window yesterday on 55A and 59. These are also gates that they use for departures. Even if the unloading time for an international flight is longer than a domestic flight of similar head count, it shouldn't be exponentially longer.

Just looking at their activity out of T4 at FLL yesterday, they had 10 arrivals at G1 and another 8 arrivals at G2. The time between G1 arrivals were less than an hour and half in many cases.
 
stlgph
Posts: 10990
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:44 pm

Did you want to bother to even look up their current schedule of incoming flights before just randomly saying they can just plop in per convenience?

Because, I'm going to go with no on that.

But keep going. It's hilarious.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:37 pm

Why wouldnt B6 build its own custom facility like in JFK?

Do you think Massport would deny their darling? No way.
 
B752OS
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Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:18 pm

impilot wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
B752OS wrote:
I really hope JetBlue doesn't mess with their Even More Space seats. IMO, it's one of the best values in US commercial aviation and it's worth the additional cost.
I think this virtually guarantees they will. One of the best values in commercial aviation=we should charge more for this product.


Lots of these seats go unsold. I think they need to add more value to it...something like delta’s comfort+. Better/separate snack options, maybe a free drink or two, etc.


Upgrade the TVs in the seat backs - making them larger and higher resolution would be a good thing. The snack and drink options is a good suggestion. So long as they don't raise prices significantly, I will gladly pay an additional $15-$25 a flight on top of the existing more space prices they normally charge for the seats.
 
impilot
Posts: 232
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Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:20 pm

B752OS wrote:
impilot wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I think this virtually guarantees they will. One of the best values in commercial aviation=we should charge more for this product.


Lots of these seats go unsold. I think they need to add more value to it...something like delta’s comfort+. Better/separate snack options, maybe a free drink or two, etc.


Upgrade the TVs in the seat backs - making them larger and higher resolution would be a good thing. The snack and drink options is a good suggestion. So long as they don't raise prices significantly, I will gladly pay an additional $15-$25 a flight on top of the existing more space prices they normally charge for the seats.


All seatbacks are getting larger/better IFE. But yeah. Agree. http://investor.jetblue.com/media-room/ ... -restyling
 
B752OS
Posts: 1199
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:25 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Why wouldnt B6 build its own custom facility like in JFK?

Do you think Massport would deny their darling? No way.


Where the heck would they put it? JetBlue already has cramped facilities in Boston, apart from their check in hall and TSA checkpoint.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2347
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Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:56 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Why wouldnt B6 build its own custom facility like in JFK?

Do you think Massport would deny their darling? No way.


This would be a smart move for a lot of reasons, although with the set up of C I'd wonder how and where they would be able to put it. Similar issue as DL themselves in A, plus the issue of staffing, which is already a challenge in E alone and let's remember that's only going to increase as an issue when E13-E17 come on line around the end of 2021.

B6 have already stated they are getting 30 gates from Massport 27 in the current footprint, 1 additional from the B to C connector, 1 additional from the main terminal and then preferential access to E1.

To the points made, as we all know space in E is limited, although the demise of PF cleared the way for some adjustments in the later slots. but at 8pm life is pretty full and there will be a number of flights waiting for space, but unless DL suddenly start 6-7 new routes with an arrival time of 12pm to 2pm, there is still space available there and DL don't seem to do too badly with those timings, so they should work for B6 too. So while the box is a little tighter, it's ok for the moment, so there is space for a couple of flights to E for B6 to work with (current schedule set up for 2019 is linked below.)

So even if they started in 2019 (which is unlikely in my humble opinion) they still have some options. Should they delay until the E13 expansion comes on stream, space will be better again as the new gates are going to allow for 2 NB's per gate or 1 WB, so in theory at certain times you could have 8 NB's sitting there. If you assume 4 turns a day per gate for NB's, that's 32 potential flights, will it be that, no, because there will be some additional WB's in there, I suspect, but the point is, the relief is coming, then when the final 3 come on stream around 2024-2025, that's another 18 per day.

What I am saying, is I totally agree right now space is at a premium in E. B6 have E1 has essentially their gate when they need it. But unless they have already decided to convert some 321's to LR's, which they haven't published formally yet, they are not worried about the jaws closing, because i bet by the time they are up and running in 2021, the expansion will be pretty much complete and they will have massport's ear to get some access to maybe E2 and move the circus down a gate for everyone else.

Do I think B6 is behind the 8 ball on this. Yes, I do, you don't telegraph your intentions to the market that blatantly without expecting a response, which DL is clearly doing and may expand upon once WN depart for B next year.

For transparency, despite my username, I am a big B6 fan, and hope for their success. Do they have challenges, absolutely, and they have been well documented ad nauseam, but Rome wasn't built in a day, and they didn't have competition from 4 800lb Gorilla's, AS and some Ankle biters at the same time. It's a cut throat market and it's not something you can turn on a dime. Despite their OTP issues and their relative size compared to others, people still love to fly them and long may it continue. The problem is that you have on one hand a group of people that want them to fly everywhere (you can just see the network thread for that argument), you have another group of people that would like them to go away (either just disappear or be bought out by AS), and then you have their supporters, who want them to thrive. This thread is the clearest indication of who are in which camps. We will likely never agree.

At the end of the day. B6 are not the size of DL, they will likely never ever be that size. They do not have an ATL, DTW, MSP (plus others) operation to fall back on, so they are never going to get the economies of scale of DL or others. So its a futile exercise to do so. While the market is essentially a commodity, all players are not equal and we have to respect that. From what we are reading here, they are not generating the returns of DL, but they did roughly report in line with Wall Street expectations. so if that's what they are going after, then they have done their job, rightly or wrongly in our opinion.

PLENTY of work to be done in all sorts of areas. no doubt, but it's not all doom and gloom and while we are entitled to our differing opinions, unless the flying public starts flying away from B6, which does not appear to be happening and they hit their WS goals, then that's 1/2 the battle overall. If they fix their operational issues, they have a lot coming, that have also been discussed that are likely to be cash and revenue positive in the medium term, from seats, to aircraft, to fees, all of which will be margin positive overall.
To the point about their pricing being on par with the US3, while we may differ on whether B6 is worth the price, Economics 101 dictates that you price at what the market is willing to bear, if it won't, you reduce price, if it does, you either keep it at that level or increase it to improve yield and profits. B6 clearly believe they have a strong enough product to match the pricing and availability of their much larger competitors (regardless of what we may think), otherwise the revenue management guys would be looking down not up. They also potentially need that level of price to offset the larger impact of fuel costs to their bottom line. I do not for one minute think they are perfect, but some of the yields that have been posted suggest things are ok, fixing the lower yielding problems and trying other things, is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of figuring your net work out to maximize, something every airline should be doing..

and with that, I am off to watch the Red Sox, hopefully beat the Dodgers


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3489
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:00 am

VS4ever wrote:
This would be a smart move for a lot of reasons, although with the set up of C I'd wonder how and where they would be able to put it. Similar issue as DL themselves in A, plus the issue of staffing, which is already a challenge in E alone and let's remember that's only going to increase as an issue when E13-E17 come on line around the end of 2021.

B6 have already stated they are getting 30 gates from Massport 27 in the current footprint, 1 additional from the B to C connector, 1 additional from the main terminal and then preferential access to E1.

To the points made, as we all know space in E is limited, although the demise of PF cleared the way for some adjustments in the later slots. but at 8pm life is pretty full and there will be a number of flights waiting for space, but unless DL suddenly start 6-7 new routes with an arrival time of 12pm to 2pm, there is still space available there and DL don't seem to do too badly with those timings, so they should work for B6 too. So while the box is a little tighter, it's ok for the moment, so there is space for a couple of flights to E for B6 to work with (current schedule set up for 2019 is linked below.)

So even if they started in 2019 (which is unlikely in my humble opinion) they still have some options. Should they delay until the E13 expansion comes on stream, space will be better again as the new gates are going to allow for 2 NB's per gate or 1 WB, so in theory at certain times you could have 8 NB's sitting there. If you assume 4 turns a day per gate for NB's, that's 32 potential flights, will it be that, no, because there will be some additional WB's in there, I suspect, but the point is, the relief is coming, then when the final 3 come on stream around 2024-2025, that's another 18 per day.

What I am saying, is I totally agree right now space is at a premium in E. B6 have E1 has essentially their gate when they need it. But unless they have already decided to convert some 321's to LR's, which they haven't published formally yet, they are not worried about the jaws closing, because i bet by the time they are up and running in 2021, the expansion will be pretty much complete and they will have massport's ear to get some access to maybe E2 and move the circus down a gate for everyone else.

Do I think B6 is behind the 8 ball on this. Yes, I do, you don't telegraph your intentions to the market that blatantly without expecting a response, which DL is clearly doing and may expand upon once WN depart for B next year.

For transparency, despite my username, I am a big B6 fan, and hope for their success. Do they have challenges, absolutely, and they have been well documented ad nauseam, but Rome wasn't built in a day, and they didn't have competition from 4 800lb Gorilla's, AS and some Ankle biters at the same time. It's a cut throat market and it's not something you can turn on a dime. Despite their OTP issues and their relative size compared to others, people still love to fly them and long may it continue. The problem is that you have on one hand a group of people that want them to fly everywhere (you can just see the network thread for that argument), you have another group of people that would like them to go away (either just disappear or be bought out by AS), and then you have their supporters, who want them to thrive. This thread is the clearest indication of who are in which camps. We will likely never agree.

At the end of the day. B6 are not the size of DL, they will likely never ever be that size. They do not have an ATL, DTW, MSP (plus others) operation to fall back on, so they are never going to get the economies of scale of DL or others. So its a futile exercise to do so. While the market is essentially a commodity, all players are not equal and we have to respect that. From what we are reading here, they are not generating the returns of DL, but they did roughly report in line with Wall Street expectations. so if that's what they are going after, then they have done their job, rightly or wrongly in our opinion.

PLENTY of work to be done in all sorts of areas. no doubt, but it's not all doom and gloom and while we are entitled to our differing opinions, unless the flying public starts flying away from B6, which does not appear to be happening and they hit their WS goals, then that's 1/2 the battle overall. If they fix their operational issues, they have a lot coming, that have also been discussed that are likely to be cash and revenue positive in the medium term, from seats, to aircraft, to fees, all of which will be margin positive overall.
To the point about their pricing being on par with the US3, while we may differ on whether B6 is worth the price, Economics 101 dictates that you price at what the market is willing to bear, if it won't, you reduce price, if it does, you either keep it at that level or increase it to improve yield and profits. B6 clearly believe they have a strong enough product to match the pricing and availability of their much larger competitors (regardless of what we may think), otherwise the revenue management guys would be looking down not up. They also potentially need that level of price to offset the larger impact of fuel costs to their bottom line. I do not for one minute think they are perfect, but some of the yields that have been posted suggest things are ok, fixing the lower yielding problems and trying other things, is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of figuring your net work out to maximize, something every airline should be doing..

and with that, I am off to watch the Red Sox, hopefully beat the Dodgers


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


Thanks VS4ever. I appreciate all your insight into BOS. I've noticed in their high season in March April, they also use E3 for departure. And they already use E3 and E4 for arrivals. Do you know how booked those gates are during most of the day? If I remember, they were running up to 5 flights out of E gates during some days. Although in their current schedules, I only see arrivals at E. It seems to me that they are going to take over E3 at certain point of day too as they continue to expand.

As for European flights, it seems like second half of 2020 is the earliest they will be able to start those now. Kind of a bummer to me, because I'd like to see TATL J fares collapse like they have in the transcon market. In terms of pricing, their product is good enough that they should be able to get premium over legacy carriers assuming that they are not facing too much network disadvantage. Which again is a good thing for consumers, since that means any competition will bring both JetBlue and legacy pricing down.

I think by the first half of 2021, they will reach their goal of peak 200 flights at BOS. And once that happen, they will go talk to MassPort to get more spaces. At the current pace, I think their growth will cause other carriers like WN and NK and AA to shrink their presence little bit. I think a few more gates in B will be available for more growth. Although, I'm not sure which new flight they would need to launch out of ORH to get that. They won't ever get to the size of UA at SFO let alone DL at DTW. But I think they will get large enough where they will see the benefits of a full network. And I can't see them not jumping into the London market at the very least.

B752OS wrote:
impilot wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I think this virtually guarantees they will. One of the best values in commercial aviation=we should charge more for this product.


Lots of these seats go unsold. I think they need to add more value to it...something like delta’s comfort+. Better/separate snack options, maybe a free drink or two, etc.


Upgrade the TVs in the seat backs - making them larger and higher resolution would be a good thing. The snack and drink options is a good suggestion. So long as they don't raise prices significantly, I will gladly pay an additional $15-$25 a flight on top of the existing more space prices they normally charge for the seats.


Things that I think they should add to EMS:
1) at least one complimentary item from their eat up boxes
2) 1 complimentary alcoholic beverage
3) unlimited options in their IFE including all the included movies
4) more attention from FAs
Maybe they can even install more comfortable seat with greater recline, although that might cost too much.

I don't even think they need to raise prices that much. If they just do the above, more of those seats will get sold. Right now, a lot of these seats get occupied by people buying last minute seats, don't select seating and get bumped up. Which I guess is not a bad thing, but they are leaving money on the table.

And DL with their FCM has more of a demand based pricing for upgrade into C+. Maybe this is something B6 can work on.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:22 am

tphuang wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
This would be a smart move for a lot of reasons, although with the set up of C I'd wonder how and where they would be able to put it. Similar issue as DL themselves in A, plus the issue of staffing, which is already a challenge in E alone and let's remember that's only going to increase as an issue when E13-E17 come on line around the end of 2021.

B6 have already stated they are getting 30 gates from Massport 27 in the current footprint, 1 additional from the B to C connector, 1 additional from the main terminal and then preferential access to E1.

To the points made, as we all know space in E is limited, although the demise of PF cleared the way for some adjustments in the later slots. but at 8pm life is pretty full and there will be a number of flights waiting for space, but unless DL suddenly start 6-7 new routes with an arrival time of 12pm to 2pm, there is still space available there and DL don't seem to do too badly with those timings, so they should work for B6 too. So while the box is a little tighter, it's ok for the moment, so there is space for a couple of flights to E for B6 to work with (current schedule set up for 2019 is linked below.)

So even if they started in 2019 (which is unlikely in my humble opinion) they still have some options. Should they delay until the E13 expansion comes on stream, space will be better again as the new gates are going to allow for 2 NB's per gate or 1 WB, so in theory at certain times you could have 8 NB's sitting there. If you assume 4 turns a day per gate for NB's, that's 32 potential flights, will it be that, no, because there will be some additional WB's in there, I suspect, but the point is, the relief is coming, then when the final 3 come on stream around 2024-2025, that's another 18 per day.

What I am saying, is I totally agree right now space is at a premium in E. B6 have E1 has essentially their gate when they need it. But unless they have already decided to convert some 321's to LR's, which they haven't published formally yet, they are not worried about the jaws closing, because i bet by the time they are up and running in 2021, the expansion will be pretty much complete and they will have massport's ear to get some access to maybe E2 and move the circus down a gate for everyone else.

Do I think B6 is behind the 8 ball on this. Yes, I do, you don't telegraph your intentions to the market that blatantly without expecting a response, which DL is clearly doing and may expand upon once WN depart for B next year.

For transparency, despite my username, I am a big B6 fan, and hope for their success. Do they have challenges, absolutely, and they have been well documented ad nauseam, but Rome wasn't built in a day, and they didn't have competition from 4 800lb Gorilla's, AS and some Ankle biters at the same time. It's a cut throat market and it's not something you can turn on a dime. Despite their OTP issues and their relative size compared to others, people still love to fly them and long may it continue. The problem is that you have on one hand a group of people that want them to fly everywhere (you can just see the network thread for that argument), you have another group of people that would like them to go away (either just disappear or be bought out by AS), and then you have their supporters, who want them to thrive. This thread is the clearest indication of who are in which camps. We will likely never agree.

At the end of the day. B6 are not the size of DL, they will likely never ever be that size. They do not have an ATL, DTW, MSP (plus others) operation to fall back on, so they are never going to get the economies of scale of DL or others. So its a futile exercise to do so. While the market is essentially a commodity, all players are not equal and we have to respect that. From what we are reading here, they are not generating the returns of DL, but they did roughly report in line with Wall Street expectations. so if that's what they are going after, then they have done their job, rightly or wrongly in our opinion.

PLENTY of work to be done in all sorts of areas. no doubt, but it's not all doom and gloom and while we are entitled to our differing opinions, unless the flying public starts flying away from B6, which does not appear to be happening and they hit their WS goals, then that's 1/2 the battle overall. If they fix their operational issues, they have a lot coming, that have also been discussed that are likely to be cash and revenue positive in the medium term, from seats, to aircraft, to fees, all of which will be margin positive overall.
To the point about their pricing being on par with the US3, while we may differ on whether B6 is worth the price, Economics 101 dictates that you price at what the market is willing to bear, if it won't, you reduce price, if it does, you either keep it at that level or increase it to improve yield and profits. B6 clearly believe they have a strong enough product to match the pricing and availability of their much larger competitors (regardless of what we may think), otherwise the revenue management guys would be looking down not up. They also potentially need that level of price to offset the larger impact of fuel costs to their bottom line. I do not for one minute think they are perfect, but some of the yields that have been posted suggest things are ok, fixing the lower yielding problems and trying other things, is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of figuring your net work out to maximize, something every airline should be doing..

and with that, I am off to watch the Red Sox, hopefully beat the Dodgers


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


Thanks VS4ever. I appreciate all your insight into BOS. I've noticed in their high season in March April, they also use E3 for departure. And they already use E3 and E4 for arrivals. Do you know how booked those gates are during most of the day? If I remember, they were running up to 5 flights out of E gates during some days. Although in their current schedules, I only see arrivals at E. It seems to me that they are going to take over E3 at certain point of day too as they continue to expand.

As for European flights, it seems like second half of 2020 is the earliest they will be able to start those now. Kind of a bummer to me, because I'd like to see TATL J fares collapse like they have in the transcon market. In terms of pricing, their product is good enough that they should be able to get premium over legacy carriers assuming that they are not facing too much network disadvantage. Which again is a good thing for consumers, since that means any competition will bring both JetBlue and legacy pricing down.

I think by the first half of 2021, they will reach their goal of peak 200 flights at BOS. And once that happen, they will go talk to MassPort to get more spaces. At the current pace, I think their growth will cause other carriers like WN and NK and AA to shrink their presence little bit. I think a few more gates in B will be available for more growth. Although, I'm not sure which new flight they would need to launch out of ORH to get that. They won't ever get to the size of UA at SFO let alone DL at DTW. But I think they will get large enough where they will see the benefits of a full network. And I can't see them not jumping into the London market at the very least.

B752OS wrote:
impilot wrote:

Lots of these seats go unsold. I think they need to add more value to it...something like delta’s comfort+. Better/separate snack options, maybe a free drink or two, etc.


Upgrade the TVs in the seat backs - making them larger and higher resolution would be a good thing. The snack and drink options is a good suggestion. So long as they don't raise prices significantly, I will gladly pay an additional $15-$25 a flight on top of the existing more space prices they normally charge for the seats.


Things that I think they should add to EMS:
1) at least one complimentary item from their eat up boxes
2) 1 complimentary alcoholic beverage
3) unlimited options in their IFE including all the included movies
4) more attention from FAs
Maybe they can even install more comfortable seat with greater recline, although that might cost too much.

I don't even think they need to raise prices that much. If they just do the above, more of those seats will get sold. Right now, a lot of these seats get occupied by people buying last minute seats, don't select seating and get bumped up. Which I guess is not a bad thing, but they are leaving money on the table.

And DL with their FCM has more of a demand based pricing for upgrade into C+. Maybe this is something B6 can work on.




FYI.....all movies are free now anyway.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:23 am

tphuang wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
This would be a smart move for a lot of reasons, although with the set up of C I'd wonder how and where they would be able to put it. Similar issue as DL themselves in A, plus the issue of staffing, which is already a challenge in E alone and let's remember that's only going to increase as an issue when E13-E17 come on line around the end of 2021.

B6 have already stated they are getting 30 gates from Massport 27 in the current footprint, 1 additional from the B to C connector, 1 additional from the main terminal and then preferential access to E1.

To the points made, as we all know space in E is limited, although the demise of PF cleared the way for some adjustments in the later slots. but at 8pm life is pretty full and there will be a number of flights waiting for space, but unless DL suddenly start 6-7 new routes with an arrival time of 12pm to 2pm, there is still space available there and DL don't seem to do too badly with those timings, so they should work for B6 too. So while the box is a little tighter, it's ok for the moment, so there is space for a couple of flights to E for B6 to work with (current schedule set up for 2019 is linked below.)

So even if they started in 2019 (which is unlikely in my humble opinion) they still have some options. Should they delay until the E13 expansion comes on stream, space will be better again as the new gates are going to allow for 2 NB's per gate or 1 WB, so in theory at certain times you could have 8 NB's sitting there. If you assume 4 turns a day per gate for NB's, that's 32 potential flights, will it be that, no, because there will be some additional WB's in there, I suspect, but the point is, the relief is coming, then when the final 3 come on stream around 2024-2025, that's another 18 per day.

What I am saying, is I totally agree right now space is at a premium in E. B6 have E1 has essentially their gate when they need it. But unless they have already decided to convert some 321's to LR's, which they haven't published formally yet, they are not worried about the jaws closing, because i bet by the time they are up and running in 2021, the expansion will be pretty much complete and they will have massport's ear to get some access to maybe E2 and move the circus down a gate for everyone else.

Do I think B6 is behind the 8 ball on this. Yes, I do, you don't telegraph your intentions to the market that blatantly without expecting a response, which DL is clearly doing and may expand upon once WN depart for B next year.

For transparency, despite my username, I am a big B6 fan, and hope for their success. Do they have challenges, absolutely, and they have been well documented ad nauseam, but Rome wasn't built in a day, and they didn't have competition from 4 800lb Gorilla's, AS and some Ankle biters at the same time. It's a cut throat market and it's not something you can turn on a dime. Despite their OTP issues and their relative size compared to others, people still love to fly them and long may it continue. The problem is that you have on one hand a group of people that want them to fly everywhere (you can just see the network thread for that argument), you have another group of people that would like them to go away (either just disappear or be bought out by AS), and then you have their supporters, who want them to thrive. This thread is the clearest indication of who are in which camps. We will likely never agree.

At the end of the day. B6 are not the size of DL, they will likely never ever be that size. They do not have an ATL, DTW, MSP (plus others) operation to fall back on, so they are never going to get the economies of scale of DL or others. So its a futile exercise to do so. While the market is essentially a commodity, all players are not equal and we have to respect that. From what we are reading here, they are not generating the returns of DL, but they did roughly report in line with Wall Street expectations. so if that's what they are going after, then they have done their job, rightly or wrongly in our opinion.

PLENTY of work to be done in all sorts of areas. no doubt, but it's not all doom and gloom and while we are entitled to our differing opinions, unless the flying public starts flying away from B6, which does not appear to be happening and they hit their WS goals, then that's 1/2 the battle overall. If they fix their operational issues, they have a lot coming, that have also been discussed that are likely to be cash and revenue positive in the medium term, from seats, to aircraft, to fees, all of which will be margin positive overall.
To the point about their pricing being on par with the US3, while we may differ on whether B6 is worth the price, Economics 101 dictates that you price at what the market is willing to bear, if it won't, you reduce price, if it does, you either keep it at that level or increase it to improve yield and profits. B6 clearly believe they have a strong enough product to match the pricing and availability of their much larger competitors (regardless of what we may think), otherwise the revenue management guys would be looking down not up. They also potentially need that level of price to offset the larger impact of fuel costs to their bottom line. I do not for one minute think they are perfect, but some of the yields that have been posted suggest things are ok, fixing the lower yielding problems and trying other things, is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of figuring your net work out to maximize, something every airline should be doing..

and with that, I am off to watch the Red Sox, hopefully beat the Dodgers


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


Thanks VS4ever. I appreciate all your insight into BOS. I've noticed in their high season in March April, they also use E3 for departure. And they already use E3 and E4 for arrivals. Do you know how booked those gates are during most of the day? If I remember, they were running up to 5 flights out of E gates during some days. Although in their current schedules, I only see arrivals at E. It seems to me that they are going to take over E3 at certain point of day too as they continue to expand.

As for European flights, it seems like second half of 2020 is the earliest they will be able to start those now. Kind of a bummer to me, because I'd like to see TATL J fares collapse like they have in the transcon market. In terms of pricing, their product is good enough that they should be able to get premium over legacy carriers assuming that they are not facing too much network disadvantage. Which again is a good thing for consumers, since that means any competition will bring both JetBlue and legacy pricing down.

I think by the first half of 2021, they will reach their goal of peak 200 flights at BOS. And once that happen, they will go talk to MassPort to get more spaces. At the current pace, I think their growth will cause other carriers like WN and NK and AA to shrink their presence little bit. I think a few more gates in B will be available for more growth. Although, I'm not sure which new flight they would need to launch out of ORH to get that. They won't ever get to the size of UA at SFO let alone DL at DTW. But I think they will get large enough where they will see the benefits of a full network. And I can't see them not jumping into the London market at the very least.

B752OS wrote:
impilot wrote:

Lots of these seats go unsold. I think they need to add more value to it...something like delta’s comfort+. Better/separate snack options, maybe a free drink or two, etc.


Upgrade the TVs in the seat backs - making them larger and higher resolution would be a good thing. The snack and drink options is a good suggestion. So long as they don't raise prices significantly, I will gladly pay an additional $15-$25 a flight on top of the existing more space prices they normally charge for the seats.


Things that I think they should add to EMS:
1) at least one complimentary item from their eat up boxes
2) 1 complimentary alcoholic beverage
3) unlimited options in their IFE including all the included movies
4) more attention from FAs
Maybe they can even install more comfortable seat with greater recline, although that might cost too much.

I don't even think they need to raise prices that much. If they just do the above, more of those seats will get sold. Right now, a lot of these seats get occupied by people buying last minute seats, don't select seating and get bumped up. Which I guess is not a bad thing, but they are leaving money on the table.

And DL with their FCM has more of a demand based pricing for upgrade into C+. Maybe this is something B6 can work on.




FYI.....all movies are free now anyway.
 
flyby519
Posts: 1463
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:23 am

stlgph wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
Fast forward to 2018, and B6 is going down and falling apart because the profit wasn't comparable to the big boys numbers. I personally think for an airline that started shortly before this nation was on its knees, survived a horrific economic collapse, and survived insane fuel prices that knocked a few big names out..... And continues to make profits..... To be a pretty successful airline. Might as well get this out of the way!!!


JetBlue is 88% owned by institutional investors, according to NASDAQ. If you think those investors will sit patiently by with some profit/below average profit you don't know how institutional investing works.


A complete left field idea - I wonder if they wouldn't see a huge benefit by going private.


Anyone seen Neeleman lately? He's the only one crazy enough to orchestrate something like that.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2347
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:51 am

tphuang wrote:


Thanks VS4ever. I appreciate all your insight into BOS. I've noticed in their high season in March April, they also use E3 for departure. And they already use E3 and E4 for arrivals. Do you know how booked those gates are during most of the day? If I remember, they were running up to 5 flights out of E gates during some days. Although in their current schedules, I only see arrivals at E. It seems to me that they are going to take over E3 at certain point of day too as they continue to expand.


I don't keep track of the gate usage, because they are common use, so they could really use any. E3 and E4 are ideal for B6 because of the connector if they can't use E1. The problem is, to be fair to STL, is that there isn't room at times to allow B6 any further encroachment, 8-9pm is already overbooked, they can have all the early morning space they want for their Caribbean stuff. Right now, I can see Santa Domingo and Santiago in the am, Punta Cana, Mexico City (starts tomorrow), Port Au Prince and Cancun on the list for the afternoon and evening, which is matching the 5 + MEX you mention. but as to actual gate usage, i'd have to dive into flightstats.com to find that out but i don't have a subscription to do so, sadly,
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1199
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:55 am

Once the Terminal B expansion and consolidation project is done at the end of this year, AA will already be shrinking their footprint at BOS down to 16 dedicated gates and 2 shared gates I believe, so they'll have access to 18. Unless they start cutting frequencies year round, they will need the gates they have to service multiple daily, year round flights to MIA, CLT, DFW, LAX, PHX, PHL, ORD, JFK, LGA, ROC and DCA and single daily flights to SYR and MDT. 11 of these cities have at least 3 daily flightS year round with most having 4 or more. Today for example they ran 95 flights which is a pretty good sized operation. Of course there are some winter seasonal cut-downs coming to LAX and PHX, but nothing too drastic.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:45 am

Dieuwer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
fastmover wrote:


I don’t know about SWISS. But the guy I talked with who helped build and manage mint said they couldn’t charge more because it would discriminate. So if you are disabled and want mint but you have to pay more for the solo seat with better acces to aisle (vs the twin mint seats) that is apparently a problem. I don’t know the exact rules but I can tell you ADA is pretty powerful. If it comes down to an issue with a disabled pax there are all kinds of guides you need to follow and you better not get it wrong. (Not saying that in a rude disrespectful way)


But if not why wouldn’t they charge more?


This is quite interesting. Had no idea this was the reason they don't charge more for the solo seats. I still think they should do more to monetize upgrade opportunities from coach to Y+ and J.


ALLEGED reason.


So since I happen to work for jetblue I decided to send an email to see if what I was told was correct.
The email I got back was from someone pretty high up at the company (it was nice of him to take the time)
This is what he said (he said I could post the reason).

“Yes that is true. According to the ADA, we need seats in every class to be accessible to handicapped customers. The legal conclusion is that charging for the single seat can be represented as a different class under the act. The single seat as installed is definitely not accessible to handicapped customers. “

I asked a follow up to confirm it was the single seat that was the issue and he said.

“And the seat definitely does not count as accessible. There are standards that the DOT lays out.”

There was definitely more to it about revenue that I am not allowed to post but he said it is very frustrating for them because they would charge and would make more off of that single seat.

Take it for what’s its worth.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12651
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:25 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
Pretty much only DL, UA and AA have any midwest focus

Er, Southwest's busiest station is in the midwest....
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
N757ST
Posts: 801
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:28 am

A couple things about Bos. To STL’s credit I haven’t looked at gate utilization for E terminal, but I’d guess they can possibly cut down some dwell time for the foreign carriers by pushing aircraft to remote stands for servicing etc. I know long term they are looking to massively expand E concourse... short term maybe add a swing gate or two that would turn one class 4 gate into to class 2, albeit temporarily. I just can’t imagine Massporr wouldn’t get creative somehow to accommodate their largest tenant in the short term before the next stages of the E expansion are completed. Jetblue, like Delta wouldn’t need a gate for very long as they would both tow their aircraft into their own gates after unloading.

Second, DAL creating some kind of connecting conduate in Bos makes sense at some level, and doesn’t on others. Unless massport finally allows other terminals to have their own customs facilities, walking across the connector or taking a shuttle bus from E to A isn’t exactly convenient. I get that it’s not the end of the world but it’s not a pleasant connection IMO. Jetblue has the luxury of E and C now being connected airside.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5518
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Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:32 pm

You turn the old UA hammerhead into intl swing gates that can be used for
domestic and/or international.

Build out the lower level into a customs/immigration facility.

They should do this for all their current international flights...and future ones.

If they ever fly to Europe (a big if) it will
be a while...and slots at Terminal E are not even on the radar!

They dont have a plane, no pilot at the airline has been trained in TA operations, and, to my knowledge, there has been no update on the years-long Etops process
 
tphuang
Posts: 3489
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:10 pm

VS4ever wrote:
tphuang wrote:


Thanks VS4ever. I appreciate all your insight into BOS. I've noticed in their high season in March April, they also use E3 for departure. And they already use E3 and E4 for arrivals. Do you know how booked those gates are during most of the day? If I remember, they were running up to 5 flights out of E gates during some days. Although in their current schedules, I only see arrivals at E. It seems to me that they are going to take over E3 at certain point of day too as they continue to expand.


I don't keep track of the gate usage, because they are common use, so they could really use any. E3 and E4 are ideal for B6 because of the connector if they can't use E1. The problem is, to be fair to STL, is that there isn't room at times to allow B6 any further encroachment, 8-9pm is already overbooked, they can have all the early morning space they want for their Caribbean stuff. Right now, I can see Santa Domingo and Santiago in the am, Punta Cana, Mexico City (starts tomorrow), Port Au Prince and Cancun on the list for the afternoon and evening, which is matching the 5 + MEX you mention. but as to actual gate usage, i'd have to dive into flightstats.com to find that out but i don't have a subscription to do so, sadly,


I was referring to them using E1/E3 for departures last year. Flightstats is unfortunately not showing gate information for a lot of the international flights. bummer.

Looks like they are not using terminal E at all for departures at the moment and have about 2 or 3 flights arriving at E1/E3/E4 depending on the day. Although I presume this will go up in the winter time with MEX and more Caribbean flying.

By March, they will have a lot more of the island flying. So might be better to check then on which gates they use. I see a lot afternoon and evening arrivals especially on the weekend.

jfklganyc wrote:
You turn the old UA hammerhead into intl swing gates that can be used for
domestic and/or international.

Build out the lower level into a customs/immigration facility.

They should do this for all their current international flights...and future ones.

If they ever fly to Europe (a big if) it will
be a while...and slots at Terminal E are not even on the radar!

They dont have a plane, no pilot at the airline has been trained in TA operations, and, to my knowledge, there has been no update on the years-long Etops process


that's what I'm thinking too. Too many other issues they have to address first.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5518
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Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:27 am

So crickets from Boston?

hmmm.
 
jumbojet
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Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:48 am

tphuang wrote:
[.

JetBlue on the other hand doesn’t even charge more for the mint suites when pretty everyone know they are more desirable than the side by side ones.

They have the most leg room with the even more space cabin but don’t package it to make it more appealing for higher yielding customers. At least add a free food And drink selection along with free movies. As is, there is no reason for people to buy up.

t.


as a single flyer who buys J seats on TRANSCON flights, I would easily pay extra ($100 - $150 range) for a suite that was all by itself.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:00 pm

fastmover wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
fastmover wrote:


Exactly correct. You need to look at the history and keep perspective.
Thank you for a great post.


hardly a meaningful comparison, especially when each of the big US3 have been around since the 1920's. Talk to me in another 75 years and we'll see where JetBlue is at.




Thank you you made my point. It’s hardly meaningful to compare a 75 year old airline to an 18 year old.
Thanks.


It is meaningful because you mention how DL (and the others) went through bankruptcy some 13 years ago at a time when JetBlue was still in its infancy years so to bring up a bankruptcy on a company thats been around since the 20's is niot fair.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:03 pm

impilot wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
B752OS wrote:
I really hope JetBlue doesn't mess with their Even More Space seats. IMO, it's one of the best values in US commercial aviation and it's worth the additional cost.
I think this virtually guarantees they will. One of the best values in commercial aviation=we should charge more for this product.


Lots of these seats go unsold. I think they need to add more value to it...something like delta’s comfort+. Better/separate snack options, maybe a free drink or two, etc.


wait a minute, EMS doesnt get you a free drink or better snack options or a meal? Then whats the draw other than a little more legroom and being closer to the front of the plane?
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
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Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:24 pm

jumbojet wrote:
fastmover wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

hardly a meaningful comparison, especially when each of the big US3 have been around since the 1920's. Talk to me in another 75 years and we'll see where JetBlue is at.




Thank you you made my point. It’s hardly meaningful to compare a 75 year old airline to an 18 year old.
Thanks.


It is meaningful because you mention how DL (and the others) went through bankruptcy some 13 years ago at a time when JetBlue was still in its infancy years so to bring up a bankruptcy on a company thats been around since the 20's is niot fair.



And to compare a company that has benefited from mergers and the ability to financially ruin itself and get a redo is hardly fair.

You just can’t so how about we stop? They are two totally different airlines with different histories.

JetBlue will never be the size of Delta it just won’t it will always be different and that’s just fine. The best JetBlue comparison airline is Alaska. That would be fair. (Kind of)
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:25 pm

jumbojet wrote:
impilot wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I think this virtually guarantees they will. One of the best values in commercial aviation=we should charge more for this product.


Lots of these seats go unsold. I think they need to add more value to it...something like delta’s comfort+. Better/separate snack options, maybe a free drink or two, etc.


wait a minute, EMS doesnt get you a free drink or better snack options or a meal? Then whats the draw other than a little more legroom and being closer to the front of the plane?


https://www.jetblue.com/flying-with-us/even-more/
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
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Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:26 pm

jumbojet wrote:
impilot wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I think this virtually guarantees they will. One of the best values in commercial aviation=we should charge more for this product.


Lots of these seats go unsold. I think they need to add more value to it...something like delta’s comfort+. Better/separate snack options, maybe a free drink or two, etc.


wait a minute, EMS doesnt get you a free drink or better snack options or a meal? Then whats the draw other than a little more legroom and being closer to the front of the plane?


https://www.jetblue.com/flying-with-us/even-more/
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:28 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
So crickets from Boston?

hmmm.



Not really it was a standard pocket session. (Management/employee) meeting.

It was a rumor that there would be an announcement made up by blueknows on here. Where is he now?
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2347
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:03 pm

fastmover wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
So crickets from Boston?

hmmm.



Not really it was a standard pocket session. (Management/employee) meeting.

It was a rumor that there would be an announcement made up by blueknows on here. Where is he now?

He’s gone, gone, gone. I just went back through the thread and noticed that all his posts have disappeared from it unless that’s just me. But if not I think all our cases rest on that one.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3489
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:25 pm

I would imagine if they announce something like flying to Europe, it wouldn’t be on a day where 4 other airlines are reporting earnings.

I still think it will happen before the end of the year. It makes no sense for Joanna to be talking about it to the media every 2 weeks if they haven't made a decision.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
I would imagine if they announce something like flying to Europe, it wouldn’t be on a day where 4 other airlines are reporting earnings.

I still think it will happen before the end of the year. It makes no sense for Joanna to be talking about it to the media every 2 weeks if they haven't made a decision.



Or it makes perfect sense ;)
 
6YBLUE
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:45 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:06 am

cledaybuck wrote:
6YBLUE wrote:
stlgph wrote:

JB needs to go back to the basics and focus on what made it good in the first place - shuttling people from the northeast/NYC to Florida/Sun. It's time to get creative. There's no shortage of people up and about at all times of the day in the city that never sleeps, how about adding some 2am or 3am flights down to the sun. Spirit's made it work with their odd schedules, proved that people are willing to do it. JFK sits on a metro of how many million people? The idea - build more revenue opportunities.

Also, I'd be looking at the partnerships. Are all these partnerships worth it? Do the math - TAP, Hawaii, and Aer Lingus all take up gate space in T5 at JFK for a number of hours per day. Is it worth it? If they get sent over to T4 or T7 - is it possible to add flights at those times? Is it worth it? How does the math add up?

Start there, and do a long, hard serious comb through the personnel roster. A nice number of the people and job titles you see on a basic scroll of LinkedIn - you have to wonder what in the hell the purpose of said job is.


They need more not less partner airlines. Its cheaper than running your own metal. 12 wide body gates at T6 will be built by 2020
Sure, its cheaper than running your own metal, but it brings in a hell of a lot less revenue too.


Tell that to Delta who keeps forging more Joint ventures. Alliances are what gets an airline a foot into the most risky routes and markets. In a perfect world more airlines would pull there own metal and cooperate with each other.
 
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admanager
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:28 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:51 am

impilot wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
B752OS wrote:
I really hope JetBlue doesn't mess with their Even More Space seats. IMO, it's one of the best values in US commercial aviation and it's worth the additional cost.
I think this virtually guarantees they will. One of the best values in commercial aviation=we should charge more for this product.


Lots of these seats go unsold. I think they need to add more value to it...something like delta’s comfort+. Better/separate snack options, maybe a free drink or two, etc.

The B6 EMS seats have more in common with UA's Y+. On UA these seats don't get early boarding, don't get a free adult beverage, don't get an extra snack - so if lots of these seats on B6 are going unsold how do they compare to UA?
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:20 am

One of the issues that plays into this is the global economy. Some are saying things are cooling already, and by the time this magical year 2020 arrives the bloom may be off the rose. I’ve got more miles on B6 than DL and would love to see them broaden their footprint locally. But the whole gate availability thing might be a moot point if the economy cools considerably. Not only might B6 give up on Europe, but DL might jettison some of their own newly-announced flights by then, too.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:42 am

chrisnh wrote:
One of the issues that plays into this is the global economy. Some are saying things are cooling already, and by the time this magical year 2020 arrives the bloom may be off the rose. I’ve got more miles on B6 than DL and would love to see them broaden their footprint locally. But the whole gate availability thing might be a moot point if the economy cools considerably. Not only might B6 give up on Europe, but DL might jettison some of their own newly-announced flights by then, too.


I can't fathom how we don't have a cooling economy in the next 18 months. There's always an up and down and it's been going pretty strongly up of late here in the US. It'll soften at some point and a ton of these wonderful new services started by various airlines will go by the wayside.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:23 am

Right, but 18 months is meaningless to JetBlue. They’ll barely be ready to actually launch flights within the next 30 months...at best. Look at the delays WN is undergoing with ETOPS...and they already have their planes.
 
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glideslope
Posts: 1559
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 8:06 pm

Re: JetBlue Q3 2018 results

Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:19 pm

Always get a giggle how many still consider B6 a LCC. The numbers were ok for what one could expect. I agree that WX related issues(Hurricane) had an impact. B6 will survive. The haters will always hate. I fly on B6 monthly to KBOS, then KBOS/LGW on DY. I've never had a negative experience any other US carrier hasn't had at times.

It's really sad to see all the hate in here cheering for a carrier to go under. Sure, the front seaters will find new jobs easily in todays market but not the rest of the workforce. Too much hate in the world already for this stuff.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu

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