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Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:34 pm
by 797
The first direct flights between mainland Australia and the United Kingdom have been a major success, according to a report published by Geoffrey Thomas at The West Australian.

The load factors have been splendid, with an average load of 92% per flight.

I wonder how profitable it is?

Full article here: https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/qantas- ... ectations/

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:42 pm
by DocLightning
My new favorite curse is: "May you have to sit in seat 59E on QF9."

It confuses the non-av people.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:57 pm
by FriscoHeavy
797 wrote:
The first direct flights between mainland Australia and the United Kingdom have been a major success, according to a report published by Geoffrey Thomas at The West Australian.

The load factors have been splendid, with an average load of 92% per flight.

I wonder how profitable it is?

Full article here: https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/qantas- ... ectations/



Yes, QF stated as such. Said it's a very profitable route. I believe they even said it was their most profitable (on a percentage basis, not total amount). Either way, yes, it's doing very well.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:00 pm
by Channex757
I'm surprised it is so profitable as the crew costs alone must take a ferocious bite out of the revenue. Then, at the end the hotel costs for them all. Doing ultra longhaul properly ain't cheap and QF does do things properly.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:37 pm
by notconcerned
Channex757 wrote:
I'm surprised it is so profitable as the crew costs alone must take a ferocious bite out of the revenue. Then, at the end the hotel costs for them all. Doing ultra longhaul properly ain't cheap and QF does do things properly.


Why would crew costs be more, considering they would need 2 sets of crew if they were doing SYD-SIN-LHR or SYD-DXB-LHR.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:40 pm
by vorellanaj
Incredible sight , but QF will need to upgauge aircraft on the route in a foreseeable future . But, QF has no intermediate model between 787-9 and A380.
747-400 and -ER variant have less range, less efficiency and have retirement date scheduled.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:46 pm
by ikolkyo
vorellanaj wrote:
Incredible sight , but QF will need to upgauge aircraft on the route in a foreseeable future . But, QF has no intermediate model between 787-9 and A380.
747-400 and -ER variant have less range, less efficiency and have retirement date scheduled.


Should they want to do that, Project Sunrise should suffice.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:49 pm
by Francoflier
Channex757 wrote:
I'm surprised it is so profitable as the crew costs alone must take a ferocious bite out of the revenue. Then, at the end the hotel costs for them all. Doing ultra longhaul properly ain't cheap and QF does do things properly.


You are way overblowing crew costs.

First of all, this flight would not cost them much more in crewing than any other long haul flight. On the contrary, doing the equivalent of 2 long haul flights with one set of crew while having pax paying premium for a direct flight is a big win for the airline.

Second, airlines love to over publically emphasize the cost of crewing, often leading to the impression that crewing is one of the big operating expense. Truth is, it is a small fraction of the operating cost, but they like everyone to think differently as they constantly strive to lower crew remuneration as part of a global cost cutting effort.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:50 pm
by vorellanaj
Qantas management are studying to order A350 (may be -1000) or 777-9X. Maybe could extend a bit longer 747ER life if they decided by 777X.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:53 pm
by Channex757
notconcerned wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
I'm surprised it is so profitable as the crew costs alone must take a ferocious bite out of the revenue. Then, at the end the hotel costs for them all. Doing ultra longhaul properly ain't cheap and QF does do things properly.


Why would crew costs be more, considering they would need 2 sets of crew if they were doing SYD-SIN-LHR or SYD-DXB-LHR.

I was thinking the duty costs and possibly longer layovers in London. It all depends on the basis QF is paying the crews.

There's even the issue of weight at that kind of distance. Twice the crews, twice the dead weight with luggage etc and of course duty payments. It all adds up.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:54 pm
by crazyplane1234
"But...but...it's a 9 abreast 787! The passengers should be avoiding the aircraft in droves!" (sarcasm)

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:54 pm
by EvanWSFO
There is another thread that VS is considering this same route. Can it support two carriers? VS gave up on Sydney once. Seems like a 777-8 would be needed, or maybe a 359 to make nonstop from the east coast of Australia.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:56 pm
by RWA380
Channex757 wrote:
I'm surprised it is so profitable as the crew costs alone must take a ferocious bite out of the revenue. Then, at the end the hotel costs for them all. Doing ultra longhaul properly ain't cheap and QF does do things properly.


When you consider a crew flying PER-LHR, will have 2 crews:

The old way, it costs to overnight a single crew in DXB & all expenses, then the crew over-nighting in LHR 24 hours later, Then on the return the same exact thing. 3 nights crew & expenses.

Now, you have 2 crews over-nighting in London, it saves 1 night of costs, even if the crews get 48 hours, crews are gone less time between trips, potentially saving the carrier money & garnering more service from each F/A. I am only speaking of in cabin employees. Not cockpit crews.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:06 am
by lightsaber
DocLightning wrote:
My new favorite curse is: "May you have to sit in seat 59E on QF9."

It confuses the non-av people.

ROTFL

I can only imagine such a flight, restricted recline, in front of a galley.

Lightsaber

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:11 am
by TN486
am I incorrect in suggesting all cabin crew are london based?

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:50 am
by smi0006
RWA380 wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
I'm surprised it is so profitable as the crew costs alone must take a ferocious bite out of the revenue. Then, at the end the hotel costs for them all. Doing ultra longhaul properly ain't cheap and QF does do things properly.


When you consider a crew flying PER-LHR, will have 2 crews:

The old way, it costs to overnight a single crew in DXB & all expenses, then the crew over-nighting in LHR 24 hours later, Then on the return the same exact thing. 3 nights crew & expenses.

Now, you have 2 crews over-nighting in London, it saves 1 night of costs, even if the crews get 48 hours, crews are gone less time between trips, potentially saving the carrier money & garnering more service from each F/A. I am only speaking of in cabin employees. Not cockpit crews.


I’m not sure where the idea of two sets of cabin crew comes from? I’m pretty confident it’s the normal compliment of cabin crew, all of which are QCCUK - London based, who have 36hr layover in Perth.

For tech crew - 1 captain, 1 First office, 2 second officers. Same as MEL/SYD-LAX. The 789 crew compliment would I imagine the the same PER-LHR as MEL-SFO and even maybe BNE-LAX.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:00 am
by MooLor
crazyplane1234 wrote:
"But...but...it's a 9 abreast 787! The passengers should be avoiding the aircraft in droves!" (sarcasm)


There are reports of Y-pax dissatisfaction on the route - reviews on seat-guru type websites etc. I am curious to see if this ever translates into reduced patronage.

The QF 789 is premium heavy - only 166 Y seats to fill daily. I'd be curious to know what percentage of these Australia-originating Y pax are from Western Australia (the state PER is located in), making it a true non-stop for them, and what percentage are travelling from the Eastern states making it just another one-stop option for those pax.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:35 am
by MrBretz
59E??? That indeed is an awful seat. Maybe my last UA A320 slimline economy(not +) wasn’t so bad after all. I got stuck back there once again and had to have a couple wines and a Xanax to get through it.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:59 am
by F100Flyer
MooLor wrote:
crazyplane1234 wrote:
"But...but...it's a 9 abreast 787! The passengers should be avoiding the aircraft in droves!" (sarcasm)


There are reports of Y-pax dissatisfaction on the route - reviews on seat-guru type websites etc. I am curious to see if this ever translates into reduced patronage.

The QF 789 is premium heavy - only 166 Y seats to fill daily. I'd be curious to know what percentage of these Australia-originating Y pax are from Western Australia (the state PER is located in), making it a true non-stop for them, and what percentage are travelling from the Eastern states making it just another one-stop option for those pax.


78% of passengers originate/alight in Perth/Western Australia.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:44 am
by ericm2031
MooLor wrote:
crazyplane1234 wrote:
"But...but...it's a 9 abreast 787! The passengers should be avoiding the aircraft in droves!" (sarcasm)


There are reports of Y-pax dissatisfaction on the route - reviews on seat-guru type websites etc. I am curious to see if this ever translates into reduced patronage.

The QF 789 is premium heavy - only 166 Y seats to fill daily. I'd be curious to know what percentage of these Australia-originating Y pax are from Western Australia (the state PER is located in), making it a true non-stop for them, and what percentage are travelling from the Eastern states making it just another one-stop option for those pax.


I'm not sure what people would expect on the flight. You can't really complain about a non-premium experience in a non-premium cabin.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:52 am
by Tokyo777
lightsaber wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
My new favorite curse is: "May you have to sit in seat 59E on QF9."

It confuses the non-av people.

ROTFL

I can only imagine such a flight, restricted recline, in front of a galley.

Lightsaber


FYI, especially in long haul, airlines try their darnedest to eliminate all reduced recline. Last row seats can sometimes be the better. Less crowded in the back of the plane, no 5 year old behind you constantly beating on the screen on your seatback, and in some airplanes, the last row may be one of the only double seats instead of a triple or quad.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:55 am
by RWA380
smi0006 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
I'm surprised it is so profitable as the crew costs alone must take a ferocious bite out of the revenue. Then, at the end the hotel costs for them all. Doing ultra longhaul properly ain't cheap and QF does do things properly.


When you consider a crew flying PER-LHR, will have 2 crews:

The old way, it costs to overnight a single crew in DXB & all expenses, then the crew over-nighting in LHR 24 hours later, Then on the return the same exact thing. 3 nights crew & expenses.

Now, you have 2 crews over-nighting in London, it saves 1 night of costs, even if the crews get 48 hours, crews are gone less time between trips, potentially saving the carrier money & garnering more service from each F/A. I am only speaking of in cabin employees. Not cockpit crews.


I’m not sure where the idea of two sets of cabin crew comes from? I’m pretty confident it’s the normal compliment of cabin crew, all of which are QCCUK - London based, who have 36hr layover in Perth.

For tech crew - 1 captain, 1 First office, 2 second officers. Same as MEL/SYD-LAX. The 789 crew compliment would I imagine the the same PER-LHR as MEL-SFO and even maybe BNE-LAX.


I was thinking in block hours of ten hours & ten hours being 2 duty days, sorry my head is confusing for even the best of us. I was thinking in duty hours & as the in-flight crew rotated during that 19 hour journey. Is a normal compliment of crew for that length of flight, the same as say a ten hour trip for QF? I was confused, I was unaware QF had retained a LHR base & that crews were London based.

So indeed, the n/s is a cost savings from a crewing standpoint, that was my original point. Thanks.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:01 am
by Flighty
Correct me if I am wrong, but crewing a 10,000 mile flight should be cheaper than crewing two 5,000 mile flights.

So, actually the long flight saves on crew costs? Oh never mind, we already got there.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:15 am
by LAXLHR
F100Flyer wrote:
MooLor wrote:
crazyplane1234 wrote:
"But...but...it's a 9 abreast 787! The passengers should be avoiding the aircraft in droves!" (sarcasm)


There are reports of Y-pax dissatisfaction on the route - reviews on seat-guru type websites etc. I am curious to see if this ever translates into reduced patronage.

The QF 789 is premium heavy - only 166 Y seats to fill daily. I'd be curious to know what percentage of these Australia-originating Y pax are from Western Australia (the state PER is located in), making it a true non-stop for them, and what percentage are travelling from the Eastern states making it just another one-stop option for those pax.


78% of passengers originate/alight in Perth/Western Australia.


Then it makes sense that the back is full over a plane change in HKG, SIN, KUL, CGK, or ME4 airports. Also does not mean that MANY are NOT staying away from the 3x3x3.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:23 am
by RyanairGuru
Flighty wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but crewing a 10,000 mile flight should be cheaper than crewing two 5,000 mile flights.

So, actually the long flight saves on crew costs? Oh never mind, we already got there.


Yes.

Flight attendant compliment is the same.

A 10,000 mi flight has 4 pilots, a 5,000 mi Flight has 2-3 depending on the airline. Even if you assume 2 crew one flight is still cheaper. One crew is one captain, one first officer, two second officers, as opposed to two captains and two first officers.

Additionally accommodation costs are less for both pilots and flight attendants. The duty is one flight, 36 hour slip, second flight, as opposed to first flight, 24 hours, second flight 36 hours, third flight, 24 hours, and then home.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:26 am
by DocLightning
Tokyo777 wrote:

FYI, especially in long haul, airlines try their darnedest to eliminate all reduced recline. Last row seats can sometimes be the better. Less crowded in the back of the plane, no 5 year old behind you constantly beating on the screen on your seatback, and in some airplanes, the last row may be one of the only double seats instead of a triple or quad.


AFAIK, the 789 for this route is not specially configured.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:04 am
by MooLor
F100Flyer wrote:
MooLor wrote:
crazyplane1234 wrote:
"But...but...it's a 9 abreast 787! The passengers should be avoiding the aircraft in droves!" (sarcasm)


There are reports of Y-pax dissatisfaction on the route - reviews on seat-guru type websites etc. I am curious to see if this ever translates into reduced patronage.

The QF 789 is premium heavy - only 166 Y seats to fill daily. I'd be curious to know what percentage of these Australia-originating Y pax are from Western Australia (the state PER is located in), making it a true non-stop for them, and what percentage are travelling from the Eastern states making it just another one-stop option for those pax.


78% of passengers originate/alight in Perth/Western Australia.


Curiosity satisfied. Thank you. :)

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:23 am
by dmstorm22
Tokyo777 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
My new favorite curse is: "May you have to sit in seat 59E on QF9."

It confuses the non-av people.

ROTFL

I can only imagine such a flight, restricted recline, in front of a galley.

Lightsaber


FYI, especially in long haul, airlines try their darnedest to eliminate all reduced recline. Last row seats can sometimes be the better. Less crowded in the back of the plane, no 5 year old behind you constantly beating on the screen on your seatback, and in some airplanes, the last row may be one of the only double seats instead of a triple or quad.


Honestly, I'm more stunned that there is a limikted incline seat on the B789 (or maybe just QF's version for this route). That is unconsciable for a 18 hour flight. God have mercy on their souls.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:40 am
by cedarjet
TN486 wrote:
am I incorrect in suggesting all cabin crew are london based?

Yes indeed, and the first time they’ve operated to Australia — til now they’ve only gone as far as DXB/SIN, or for the older hands, BKK/HKG. I was on the inaugural LHR to PER and a couple of the cabin crew had never been to Australia!

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:41 am
by cedarjet
dmstorm22 wrote:
Tokyo777 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
ROTFL

I can only imagine such a flight, restricted recline, in front of a galley.

Lightsaber


FYI, especially in long haul, airlines try their darnedest to eliminate all reduced recline. Last row seats can sometimes be the better. Less crowded in the back of the plane, no 5 year old behind you constantly beating on the screen on your seatback, and in some airplanes, the last row may be one of the only double seats instead of a triple or quad.


Honestly, I'm more stunned that there is a limikted incline seat on the B789 (or maybe just QF's version for this route). That is unconsciable for a 18 hour flight. God have mercy on their souls.

I was in the back row on the inaugural and I assure you I had full recline. This is Qantas, not Spirit.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:47 am
by Prost
I have an ULR question, not specifically QF. Do I remember an ULR flight that occasionally needed to be towed to the runway as the fuel burned taxiing would have put them short? My brain gets scrambled and I may be making up false memories, but at least I don’t try and pass it off as fact!

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:22 am
by DarkSnowyNight
DocLightning wrote:
My new favorite curse is: "May you have to sit in seat 59E on QF9."

It confuses the non-av people.



Still nothing like the curse of any seat, at all on AA.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:27 am
by zeke
Prost wrote:
I have an ULR question, not specifically QF. Do I remember an ULR flight that occasionally needed to be towed to the runway as the fuel burned taxiing would have put them short? My brain gets scrambled and I may be making up false memories, but at least I don’t try and pass it off as fact!


That was the 777-200LR record flight from HKG.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:15 am
by Ruscoe
Prost wrote:
I have an ULR question, not specifically QF. Do I remember an ULR flight that occasionally needed to be towed to the runway as the fuel burned taxiing would have put them short? My brain gets scrambled and I may be making up false memories, but at least I don’t try and pass it off as fact!


The taxi weight is higher than the MTOW so unless it was a very long taxi or a lot of holding, there would be no advantage in towing.

Ruscoe

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:18 am
by ClassicLover
F100Flyer wrote:
78% of passengers originate/alight in Perth/Western Australia.


You know, I really expected more people to originate in MEL, so that's a great figure really.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:19 am
by n251ay
zeke wrote:
Prost wrote:
I have an ULR question, not specifically QF. Do I remember an ULR flight that occasionally needed to be towed to the runway as the fuel burned taxiing would have put them short? My brain gets scrambled and I may be making up false memories, but at least I don’t try and pass it off as fact!


That was the 777-200LR record flight from HKG.


AFAIK it was the QF744 LHR-SYD nonstop

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:51 am
by bwwt
F100Flyer wrote:
MooLor wrote:
crazyplane1234 wrote:
"But...but...it's a 9 abreast 787! The passengers should be avoiding the aircraft in droves!" (sarcasm)


There are reports of Y-pax dissatisfaction on the route - reviews on seat-guru type websites etc. I am curious to see if this ever translates into reduced patronage.

The QF 789 is premium heavy - only 166 Y seats to fill daily. I'd be curious to know what percentage of these Australia-originating Y pax are from Western Australia (the state PER is located in), making it a true non-stop for them, and what percentage are travelling from the Eastern states making it just another one-stop option for those pax.


78% of passengers originate/alight in Perth/Western Australia.


78% do not continue onto Melbourne, not necessarily all WA passengers. Connecting SYD/BNE/ADL pax would be included in that %

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:21 am
by parapente
Numbers speak louder than words.It flies full - very full,it's profitable,very profitable and Virgin will have run their numbers very carefully before speaking so clearly they see it a profitable for them too.Perhaps BA should have considered it?
As I said on a separate thread I see these direct non stop flights bringing a tourist boom to W Australia.Its a fantastic area with loads of different things to do that will appeal to different types.2 week winter holiday? Bring it on!
I know a couple of people who have flown it ( one biz one Y) both preferred it ( I understand that's not quantitative research).
Interestingly one flight had to circle ove the U.K. For half an hour because it was far too early! ( tail winds).

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:31 am
by Gemuser
bwwt wrote:
F100Flyer wrote:
MooLor wrote:

There are reports of Y-pax dissatisfaction on the route - reviews on seat-guru type websites etc. I am curious to see if this ever translates into reduced patronage.

The QF 789 is premium heavy - only 166 Y seats to fill daily. I'd be curious to know what percentage of these Australia-originating Y pax are from Western Australia (the state PER is located in), making it a true non-stop for them, and what percentage are travelling from the Eastern states making it just another one-stop option for those pax.


78% of passengers originate/alight in Perth/Western Australia.


78% do not continue onto Melbourne, not necessarily all WA passengers. Connecting SYD/BNE/ADL pax would be included in that %


This makes a LOT more sense to me. If 22% continue on to MEL it is reasonable to assume[in the absence of hard data, based on general demography] that around 15 - 20% connect to SYD and 10 -15% connect on to BNE. Based on this [including a small percentage to ADL] about 40% of passengers originate in PER, that is a LOT more believable than 78%.

Gemuser

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:35 am
by qf789
Gemuser wrote:
bwwt wrote:
F100Flyer wrote:

78% of passengers originate/alight in Perth/Western Australia.


78% do not continue onto Melbourne, not necessarily all WA passengers. Connecting SYD/BNE/ADL pax would be included in that %


This makes a LOT more sense to me. If 22% continue on to MEL it is reasonable to assume[in the absence of hard data, based on general demography] that around 15 - 20% connect to SYD and 10 -15% connect on to BNE. Based on this [including a small percentage to ADL] about 40% of passengers originate in PER, that is a LOT more believable than 78%.

Gemuser


Actually from PER it is around 60% of the flight, QF have been on record many times that 60% were either originating or terminating in PER.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:50 am
by Gemuser
qf789 wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
bwwt wrote:

78% do not continue onto Melbourne, not necessarily all WA passengers. Connecting SYD/BNE/ADL pax would be included in that %


This makes a LOT more sense to me. If 22% continue on to MEL it is reasonable to assume[in the absence of hard data, based on general demography] that around 15 - 20% connect to SYD and 10 -15% connect on to BNE. Based on this [including a small percentage to ADL] about 40% of passengers originate in PER, that is a LOT more believable than 78%.

Gemuser


Actually from PER it is around 60% of the flight, QF have been on record many times that 60% were either originating or terminating in PER.


We will have to agree to disagree until I see some creditable actual numbers, which seeing BTRE don't break the numbers out fully this could take some time. For various reasons I do not accept QF or any other company, just "saying" that something is such and such a nice round number is statistically accurate. Now if that was on an official report to the ASX or in some official submission to government, that would be a different matter, but AFAIK, that is not the case.

Gemuser

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:12 pm
by zeke
n251ay wrote:

AFAIK it was the QF744 LHR-SYD nonstop


May have been as well. A very detailed report by one of our members who was on the 777-200LR world record flight and described how they were next to the runway when they started the engines.

viewtopic.php?t=960981

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:19 pm
by FriscoHeavy
zeke wrote:
Prost wrote:
I have an ULR question, not specifically QF. Do I remember an ULR flight that occasionally needed to be towed to the runway as the fuel burned taxiing would have put them short? My brain gets scrambled and I may be making up false memories, but at least I don’t try and pass it off as fact!


That was the 777-200LR record flight from HKG.


No, it was not the record flight from HKG. It landed with over about ~60-90 minutes of fuel left. Plenty of margin for a non-passenger flight, so no it was not this flight.

The flight in question is the United 747 flight from ORD-HKG, that at times, was towed to the runway.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:29 pm
by zeke
Did you read the report from the other thread where they said they did ?

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:30 pm
by log0008
Just in relation to crew cost, it’s very minimal in the scheme of things when you consider just the fuel cost alone is over $250,000 per flight.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:33 pm
by Galwayman
parapente wrote:
Numbers speak louder than words.It flies full - very full,it's profitable,very profitable and Virgin will have run their numbers very carefully before speaking so clearly they see it a profitable for them too.Perhaps BA should have considered it?
As I said on a separate thread I see these direct non stop flights bringing a tourist boom to W Australia.Its a fantastic area with loads of different things to do that will appeal to different types.2 week winter holiday? Bring it on!
I know a couple of people who have flown it ( one biz one Y) both preferred it ( I understand that's not quantitative research).
Interestingly one flight had to circle ove the U.K. For half an hour because it was far too early! ( tail winds).


Delta will run the numbers, it’s clear nobody at Virgin has run any numbers in decades ...

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:37 pm
by commpilot
There isn't much of a London hotel cost. The route is crewed with only a London based cabin crew.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:39 pm
by qf002
log0008 wrote:
the fuel cost alone is over $250,000 per flight.


No it's not. Fuel capacity of the 789 is about 36,000 US gallons and the global price of A1 this week is US$2.26 per gallon. That's about US$80k to fill the tanks which is about A$110k.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:18 pm
by evanb
So far it's only been operating during the Australian winter. Now that we're starting to come into summer I'm interested to see how well it continues to perform when the take-off performance might start to get more seriously challenged by higher temperatures. Keep in mind Perth's July (coldest month) average high is about 18 degrees celcius, but January and February (hottest months) have an average high of 32 degrees celcius with many days in the 40s. It they have to start leaving significant number of passengers behind this could be really problematic. Given the marketing of the flight they're going to do everything they can not to have to make a tech stop.

Re: Qantas 787-9 Exceeding Expectations on Perth-London Route

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:43 pm
by parapente
In a decades time I would not be surprised to see a 351 or a 778 flying this route.The 789 will probably be flying to Germany!