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Nicknuzzii
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United proposes purchasing the A321LR for transatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:21 pm

According to, ainonline.com United is considering purchasing some a321lr's to take over the current 757-200 trasnatlantic flights. It is possible that they will install 16 Polaris Seats, 72 economy plus and 90 regular economy. It is to be presumed that they will be based at EWR. What are your thoughts?


Source;
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ic-service

Do you think it's credible or just another tactic to scare Boeing into an extended range Max 10?
Last edited by atcsundevil on Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited spelling in title
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:34 pm

Can they really fit 178 people in an A321 with the proposed layout?

Just going off of history, UA has been very vocal about the 797, and has a clear use for it. The A321LR has not gotten any treatment from UA publicly in the way the 797 has. Plus UA has a lot of markets (and more with potential) that are too long for a 757 but too close/small for a 767.
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N649DL
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:35 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
According to, ainonline.com United is considering purchasing some a321lr's to take over the current 757-200 trasnatlantic flights. It is possible that they will install 16 Polaris Seats, 72 economy plus and 90 regular economy. It is to be presumed that they will be based at EWR. What are your thoughts?


Source;
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ic-service

Do you think it's credible or just another tactic to scare Boeing into an extended range Max 10?


I think this is a signal (and I said it recently) that this order is for UA to return to JFK on PS with the A321LR and also operate them out of EWR on shorter TATL routes to the UK. It would allow more slack in the 757 fleet which they really need at the moment.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:37 pm

Would this be a stop gap solution between 757 and 797 or are United thinking the 797 may not happen or at least not soon enough ?
 
tpaewr
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:39 pm

It could happen, but don’t count your chicken before they hatch.

Remember this?

https://seekingalpha.com/article/322864 ... umbo-order
 
flyguy84
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:41 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
According to, ainonline.com United is considering purchasing some a321lr's to take over the current 757-200 trasnatlantic flights. It is possible that they will install 16 Polaris Seats, 72 economy plus and 90 regular economy. It is to be presumed that they will be based at EWR. What are your thoughts?


Source;
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ic-service

Do you think it's credible or just another tactic to scare Boeing into an extended range Max 10?

I don’t think United really wants to fly a 737 TATL and the NMA is likely to be too much plane for a 757 replacement. I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see United order the A321LR.
SFO
 
fun2fly
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:41 pm

JannEejit wrote:
Would this be a stop gap solution between 757 and 797 or are United thinking the 797 may not happen or at least not soon enough ?


At some point, Boeing will have waited (already past?) too long for the majors to join the 797 program and there is no program without the majors.

UA needs something for transcons and short TATL. Could be two different or the same a/c. If different, considering the age of the 757's on the PS routes, I'd bet the 321LR is for that purpose.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:46 pm

I'd think this is a replacement for 757s going to Europe and PS routes.
 
727200
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:46 pm

Hmmm....RR powered?

Cue the cancellation of the 350s in 3....2....1
 
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seabosdca
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:49 pm

I think the A321neo is a no-brainer for p.s. unless UA has something really different with the 797 up its sleeve. That's true even though UA is ordering so many MAXes.

The trickier part is TATL.

The "A321LR" is a standard A321neo with auxiliary center tanks and a higher MTOW. I'm not convinced that UA will want a dedicated fleet of A321neo frames to fly TATL. But I'm also not convinced they'll want to fly A321neos around domestically with the extra weight of center tanks. An A321neo without center tanks could do the shortest TATL routes from EWR, but not every route currently flown by sCO 757s, and wouldn't be any use from IAD.

To me this sets up pretty logically. I'd expect UA to purchase A321neos without the center tanks, and to outfit some of them in p.s. and others in a configuration more like the sCO 757s. The latter would fly primarily non-p.s. transcons but also some rotations on route between EWR and Ireland or the UK. Longer TATL routes will continue to be flown by 757s until the 797 is in service.
Last edited by seabosdca on Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:59 pm

I'm pretty sure United already has plans for the Max 10 to take over the transcontinental routes and the 321s would be more for trasnatlantic. This being because a Max 10 ps layout was leaked days ago.
 
xxcr
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:05 pm

Did i read this article correctly??? UA wants economy with a pitch of 28inchs????
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:06 pm

UA could certainly make good use out of an A321LR. They've waited a long time for the MoM to be launched, they have 757's that ain't gettin' any younger, and then there's those A350's.....
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RandWkop
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:25 pm

727200 wrote:
Hmmm....RR powered?

Cue the cancellation of the 350s in 3....2....1

Will Trent XWBs fit under the wing of the 321? Maybe they could extend the nose gear and put wheels on the bottom of the engine cowl............
 
ikramerica
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:26 pm

Would be a smart move. A small cost increase vs the NEO to use as CO used the 752 and 762 which can always be repurposed in the future (Hawaii, transcon, south Erica) when 797s arrive.
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OA412
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:27 pm

xxcr wrote:
Did i read this article correctly??? UA wants economy with a pitch of 28inchs????

No. The article indicates that 28 in pitch would come into play if an airline chose to install a 240 seat all economy layout. I really don't see UA (or any other major carrier) going below 31 on longer haul aircraft.
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OA940
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:27 pm

xxcr wrote:
Did i read this article correctly??? UA wants economy with a pitch of 28inchs????


No you didn't. It says 28'' for a 240 seat configuration, aka the maximum the A321neo is certified for with the ACF configuration. No full service airline would go there. Plus UA's layout would allow for the standard 30-31'' legroom.
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IADCA
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:31 pm

xxcr wrote:
Did i read this article correctly??? UA wants economy with a pitch of 28inchs????


No, you didn't. That pitch was for a 240-seat 321LR, and UA's spec was apparently 178 seats (16+72+90). Plus the person who made that comment about 240-seat 321LRs doesn't work for UA, but rather a consultancy in the UK.
 
ikramerica
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:31 pm

Would be a smart move. A small cost increase vs the NEO to use as CO used the 752 and 762 which can always be repurposed in the future (Hawaii, transcon, south America) when 797s arrive.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Victorville
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:41 pm

I think this is more a message to Boeing to move forward on a 757/767 replacement than an actual intent to buy A321LR.

UA hasn't invested anything in the A320neo program yet, and eventually this may become a small narrowbody fleet at the carrier. Plus, I think they want more range than they would get with A321LR (ability to fly some Europe routes from IAD and ORD).

Equipment is not the impediment to UA getting back into the JFK transcon market.
 
catiii
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:42 pm

N649DL wrote:
It would allow more slack in the 757 fleet which they really need at the moment.


Which is smart, but "at the moment" and the 18-24 months before the airplane would be delivered if they place an order today doesn't help them.
 
xxcr
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:45 pm

OA412 wrote:
xxcr wrote:
Did i read this article correctly??? UA wants economy with a pitch of 28inchs????

No. The article indicates that 28 in pitch would come into play if an airline chose to install a 240 seat all economy layout. I really don't see UA (or any other major carrier) going below 31 on longer haul aircraft.


oh good! was going to say! im ok with 31!!
 
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adamblang
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:55 pm

That last paragraph is interesting to me – Airbus tested A321neo with simulated weights of 173 passengers and 5 crew to 4570nm...

Image
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:05 pm

How much longer do their TATL 757s have? I'm sure Boeing is hoping they can stretch those frames through 2025 and hold off on an order until after 797 launch. This could also be a negotiation tactic with Boeing.
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:09 pm

Let’s see, first, you need 6 crew, possibly 7 if third pilot. Second, substract about 450 nm for international reserves, then subtract about the same or more for westbound headwinds and high temp devs. Realistically, a 3800 nm plane. Plenty for DUB, SNN, LIS, MAD, KEF, OSL, but not BER, MUC, STR, NCE.

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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:16 pm

RandWkop wrote:
727200 wrote:
Hmmm....RR powered?

Cue the cancellation of the 350s in 3....2....1

Will Trent XWBs fit under the wing of the 321? Maybe they could extend the nose gear and put wheels on the bottom of the engine cowl............


LOL. I'm picturing something like a B-47 with a nose gear that looks like the Lockheed Constellation (i.e. really tall for the size of the fuselage).
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
by738
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:22 pm

80's frame model small narrowbody... naah... wait for MoM Boeing.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:26 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I think the A321neo is a no-brainer for p.s. unless UA has something really different with the 797 up its sleeve. That's true even though UA is ordering so many MAXes.

The trickier part is TATL.

The "A321LR" is a standard A321neo with auxiliary center tanks and a higher MTOW. I'm not convinced that UA will want a dedicated fleet of A321neo frames to fly TATL. But I'm also not convinced they'll want to fly A321neos around domestically with the extra weight of center tanks. An A321neo without center tanks could do the shortest TATL routes from EWR, but not every route currently flown by sCO 757s, and wouldn't be any use from IAD.

To me this sets up pretty logically. I'd expect UA to purchase A321neos without the center tanks, and to outfit some of them in p.s. and others in a configuration more like the sCO 757s. The latter would fly primarily non-p.s. transcons but also some rotations on route between EWR and Ireland or the UK. Longer TATL routes will continue to be flown by 757s until the 797 is in service.


What advantage does the A321LR have over the 737-10 on transcons? It would seem to me the 737-10 would have a much better CASM because the A321LR is optimized for longer journeys.

Can the 737-10 not make EWR/JFK-SFO/LAX with a premium layout?
 
airzona11
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:34 pm

Long and thin is not the game the major airlines play. They have moved upmarket with their planes and then manage to yield. Transatlantic narrowbody service is what percent of US3 traffic? 5%? 10%? JVs make it even less important to chase lower yielding P2P traffic.

Anet is amazing. If you talk transatlantic on a 757... worst thing ever. A321NEOLRX across the Atlantic... game changer, new pedigree, etc.

Will UA end up with A321s, probably. Will TransAtlantic A321s be the reason, probably not, what is that 10 frames? 15?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:36 pm

Victorville wrote:
I think this is more a message to Boeing to move forward on a 757/767 replacement than an actual intent to buy A321LR.

UA hasn't invested anything in the A320neo program yet, and eventually this may become a small narrowbody fleet at the carrier. Plus, I think they want more range than they would get with A321LR (ability to fly some Europe routes from IAD and ORD).

Equipment is not the impediment to UA getting back into the JFK transcon market.


I agree. Boeing can't afford to lose United.
 
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janders
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:39 pm

Sounds like same exact story reported over the summer

Airbus and United talk A321LR
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... cs-450083/
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keesje
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:42 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
I think the A321neo is a no-brainer for p.s. unless UA has something really different with the 797 up its sleeve. That's true even though UA is ordering so many MAXes.

The trickier part is TATL.

The "A321LR" is a standard A321neo with auxiliary center tanks and a higher MTOW. I'm not convinced that UA will want a dedicated fleet of A321neo frames to fly TATL. But I'm also not convinced they'll want to fly A321neos around domestically with the extra weight of center tanks. An A321neo without center tanks could do the shortest TATL routes from EWR, but not every route currently flown by sCO 757s, and wouldn't be any use from IAD.

To me this sets up pretty logically. I'd expect UA to purchase A321neos without the center tanks, and to outfit some of them in p.s. and others in a configuration more like the sCO 757s. The latter would fly primarily non-p.s. transcons but also some rotations on route between EWR and Ireland or the UK. Longer TATL routes will continue to be flown by 757s until the 797 is in service.


What advantage does the A321LR have over the 737-10 on transcons?


- Wider seats/ aisle
- quieter cabin
- quieter roomier cockpit
- container/pallet options
- engine choice, Leap or GTF
- higher BPR quieter, more efficient engines
- better runway performance
- rear galley/ lavatory options
- 4000NM range, Hawaii, South America
- more payload on same flights
- Airbus NB/WB FBW cockpit commonality
- proven performance, certification
- early availability via lessors
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Coalways
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:44 pm

The A321LR would fit perfect in UA fleet for the P.S. flights, transatlantic from the east coast and would be perfect for DEN to Hawaii flights
 
WorldFlier
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:51 pm

keesje wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
I think the A321neo is a no-brainer for p.s. unless UA has something really different with the 797 up its sleeve. That's true even though UA is ordering so many MAXes.

The trickier part is TATL.

The "A321LR" is a standard A321neo with auxiliary center tanks and a higher MTOW. I'm not convinced that UA will want a dedicated fleet of A321neo frames to fly TATL. But I'm also not convinced they'll want to fly A321neos around domestically with the extra weight of center tanks. An A321neo without center tanks could do the shortest TATL routes from EWR, but not every route currently flown by sCO 757s, and wouldn't be any use from IAD.

To me this sets up pretty logically. I'd expect UA to purchase A321neos without the center tanks, and to outfit some of them in p.s. and others in a configuration more like the sCO 757s. The latter would fly primarily non-p.s. transcons but also some rotations on route between EWR and Ireland or the UK. Longer TATL routes will continue to be flown by 757s until the 797 is in service.


What advantage does the A321LR have over the 737-10 on transcons?


- Wider seats/ aisle
- quieter cabin
- quieter roomier cockpit
- container/pallet options
- engine choice, Leap or GTF
- higher BPR quieter, more efficient engines
- better runway performance
- rear galley/ lavatory options
- 4000NM range, Hawaii, South America
- more payload on same flights
- Airbus NB/WB FBW cockpit commonality
- proven performance, certification
- early availability via lessors


- Wider seats/ aisle - the difference between a A32X and a B737 is miniscule and negligible.
- quieter cabin - depends on the engine
- quieter roomier cockpit - the people paying the bills don't care
- container/pallet options - not in an A321LR, there are extra fuel tanks (can those be taken out?)
- engine choice, Leap or GTF - fair point, +1 Airbus
- higher BPR quieter, more efficient engines - Does the engine efficiency make up for all the extra plane an A321LR (specifically the LR, not just NEO) has to haul around vs the 737-10
- better runway performance - Does this matter between New York and West Coast?
- rear galley/ lavatory options - Boeing doesn't have this?
- 4000NM range, Hawaii, South America - +1 to A321LR, but we're talking about a PS service. The A321LR would give flexibility, but you'd be paying for it with a less efficient airframe for shorter routes.
- more payload on same flights
- Airbus NB/WB FBW cockpit commonality - And the 737-10 provides it with 737NG no?
- proven performance, certification - The 737-Max is proven as well, no?
- early availability via lessors - United will get the best possible pricing from Boeing directly if they order alot of -10s instead of an A321LR, who needs a middleman when cash is so cheap?

I'm still not sold on A321LR on PS Service is an advantage over a A321NEO or B737-10.

I am 100% Sold on A321LR on EWR-Europe to replace 90%+ 757 Routes and South America too from other United Hubs.
Last edited by WorldFlier on Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:12 pm

Revelation wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
How many years have you been predicting a united A321 order?

If they order it, I will stand and do a slow clap for him. He will have fought the good fight.

If they order it, I will send him a bottle of computer screen cleaner to help deal with the aftermath of the celebration.

I'm talking about champagne, everyone get your mind out of the gutter.


It is a sale that Airbus has been trying to win for many years. I would expect many bottles of champagne to pop in Toulouse. Fewer bottles if it comes at the expense of more A350 deferrals or worse cancellations.
 
Flighty
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:28 pm

United does not "propose" to get the A321. Instead Airbus proposes that United buy some A321. United "considers" the proposal.

All in all, not really news.

Also this: " Lyons pointed out the Airbus had flown an A321neo a distance of 4,750 nm in that configuration non-stop from Mahé in the Seychelles to Toulouse with the aircraft’s weight configured for the test flight to represent 162 passengers and with 11 technicians and five crewmembers aboard."
How do you "configure the aircraft's weight to represent 162 passengers" if not with fuel? Were they carrying ballast? Could they have made it the other direction?
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:38 pm

A321neo’s seems like a good idea. No reason they couldn’t buy that plane as well as 797s.

keesje wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
I think the A321neo is a no-brainer for p.s. unless UA has something really different with the 797 up its sleeve. That's true even though UA is ordering so many MAXes.

The trickier part is TATL.

The "A321LR" is a standard A321neo with auxiliary center tanks and a higher MTOW. I'm not convinced that UA will want a dedicated fleet of A321neo frames to fly TATL. But I'm also not convinced they'll want to fly A321neos around domestically with the extra weight of center tanks. An A321neo without center tanks could do the shortest TATL routes from EWR, but not every route currently flown by sCO 757s, and wouldn't be any use from IAD.

To me this sets up pretty logically. I'd expect UA to purchase A321neos without the center tanks, and to outfit some of them in p.s. and others in a configuration more like the sCO 757s. The latter would fly primarily non-p.s. transcons but also some rotations on route between EWR and Ireland or the UK. Longer TATL routes will continue to be flown by 757s until the 797 is in service.


What advantage does the A321LR have over the 737-10 on transcons?


- Wider seats/ aisle
- quieter cabin
- quieter roomier cockpit
- container/pallet options
- engine choice, Leap or GTF
- higher BPR quieter, more efficient engines
- better runway performance
- rear galley/ lavatory options
- 4000NM range, Hawaii, South America
- more payload on same flights
- Airbus NB/WB FBW cockpit commonality
- proven performance, certification
- early availability via lessors


Other than the range, payload and availability the rest of that list doesn’t matter to United. Maybe to you personally.
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:44 pm

watch this turn into a 10+ page thread, complete with victory laps by posters.... all ignoring the fact that this article is not even newsworthy, as others have detailed above.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:46 pm

I can definitely see this happening. In fact I'd say it's more likely than not. This is a way to get out of the A350 order and avoid the risk of the 797 never coming to fruition (my belief is that it won't).
 
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scbriml
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:46 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Just going off of history, UA has been very vocal about the 797, and has a clear use for it. The A321LR has not gotten any treatment from UA publicly in the way the 797 has.


Bread and butter today rather than jam tomorrow?

727200 wrote:
Hmmm....RR powered?


Er, which RR engine is available on the A321neo?

727200 wrote:
Cue the cancellation of the 350s in 3....2....1


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DLHAM
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:49 pm

The question is if United still wants to fly ~170 seat aircraft into deeper Europe. All 757 routes - except that one seasonal flight from Newark to Stockholm - disappeared in the recent years. Just UK/Ireland and Portugal left. I am pretty sure that this can be done by the standard A321neo too, even the 737MAX9 should be capable. Stockholm then needs an 767 upgrade or cancellation.

The 797 AFAIK is going to be much larger than A321neo/757 and also larger than the 767-300.
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Newbiepilot
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:57 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
I can definitely see this happening. In fact I'd say it's more likely than not. This is a way to get out of the A350 order and avoid the risk of the 797 never coming to fruition (my belief is that it won't).


I think UA knows whether or not the NMA will get built and have a pretty good idea of its specifications. What they probably dont know is the final purchase price.
 
MIflyer12
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:57 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I think the A321neo is a no-brainer for p.s. unless UA has something really different with the 797 up its sleeve. That's true even though UA is ordering so many MAXes.

The trickier part is TATL.

The "A321LR" is a standard A321neo with auxiliary center tanks and a higher MTOW. I'm not convinced that UA will want a dedicated fleet of A321neo frames to fly TATL. But I'm also not convinced they'll want to fly A321neos around domestically with the extra weight of center tanks. An A321neo without center tanks could do the shortest TATL routes from EWR, but not every route currently flown by sCO 757s, and wouldn't be any use from IAD.

To me this sets up pretty logically. I'd expect UA to purchase A321neos without the center tanks, and to outfit some of them in p.s. and others in a configuration more like the sCO 757s. The latter would fly primarily non-p.s. transcons but also some rotations on route between EWR and Ireland or the UK. Longer TATL routes will continue to be flown by 757s until the 797 is in service.


That really begs the question: How small a narrowbody subfleet would UA operate? 25(?) frames for domestic PS w/o center tanks, and 15(?) with tanks for TATL? Would they want 321s at all if they were only buying 40?

As another poster said, I really see this as a (*&^ or get off the pot challenge to Boeing on the 797.
 
N649DL
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:57 pm

Revelation wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
How many years have you been predicting a united A321 order?

If they order it, I will stand and do a slow clap for him. He will have fought the good fight.

If they order it, I will send him a bottle of computer screen cleaner to help deal with the aftermath of the celebration.

I'm talking about champagne, everyone get your mind out of the gutter.


I think it's overdue that because they ponder so much about ordering this particular plane. The 739ER is a pig with wings and the 757s are getting really long in the tooth.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:01 pm

N649DL wrote:
Revelation wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
If they order it, I will stand and do a slow clap for him. He will have fought the good fight.

If they order it, I will send him a bottle of computer screen cleaner to help deal with the aftermath of the celebration.

I'm talking about champagne, everyone get your mind out of the gutter.


I think it's overdue that because they ponder so much about ordering this particular plane. The 739ER is a pig with wings and the 757s are getting really long in the tooth.


That pig now flies the majority of transcon routes except EWR SFO/LAX. It is a profitable pig.
 
N649DL
Posts: 1002
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:04 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Revelation wrote:
If they order it, I will send him a bottle of computer screen cleaner to help deal with the aftermath of the celebration.

I'm talking about champagne, everyone get your mind out of the gutter.


I think it's overdue that because they ponder so much about ordering this particular plane. The 739ER is a pig with wings and the 757s are getting really long in the tooth.


That pig now flies the majority of transcon routes except EWR SFO/LAX. It is a profitable pig.


I really don't care as I'll put up with it with DL as they have AVOD but between the streaming systems and hard seats there is nothing likable about that plane.
 
User avatar
Revelation
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Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:06 pm

Flighty wrote:
United does not "propose" to get the A321. Instead Airbus proposes that United buy some A321. United "considers" the proposal.

All in all, not really news.

Also this: " Lyons pointed out the Airbus had flown an A321neo a distance of 4,750 nm in that configuration non-stop from Mahé in the Seychelles to Toulouse with the aircraft’s weight configured for the test flight to represent 162 passengers and with 11 technicians and five crewmembers aboard."
How do you "configure the aircraft's weight to represent 162 passengers" if not with fuel? Were they carrying ballast? Could they have made it the other direction?

Yes, the A321neo test flight aircraft had water barrels with pumps to move water around to simulate different loads.

Presumably they filled the barrels to get to 162 pax weight.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1294
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:06 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Let’s see, first, you need 6 crew, possibly 7 if third pilot. Second, substract about 450 nm for international reserves, then subtract about the same or more for westbound headwinds and high temp devs. Realistically, a 3800 nm plane. Plenty for DUB, SNN, LIS, MAD, KEF, OSL, but not BER, MUC, STR, NCE.

GF

Then you would also need a crew rest area. Since it can't go under the floor or above the ceiling, it would have to take up part of the passenger cabin, and therefore cut capacity.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:10 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
I think UA knows whether or not the NMA will get built and have a pretty good idea of its specifications. What they probably dont know is the final purchase price.


The purchase price Boeing can garner is a major factor into whether or not it gets built. It's a circular formula that so far has missing links that only widen as time marches on.
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3642
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: United proposes purchasing the a321lr for trasnatlantic flights

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:16 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
I think UA knows whether or not the NMA will get built and have a pretty good idea of its specifications. What they probably dont know is the final purchase price.


The purchase price Boeing can garner is a major factor into whether or not it gets built. It's a circular formula that so far has missing links that only widen as time marches on.


Based on the articles with quotes from Airline leadership, i think the missing links are closing, not widening as time goes on, but that is just my opinion. I think United has the information that they need to decide between more 737s, A321s or NMAs.

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