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Geminijets101
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Any chances of FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:14 pm

Will service ever resume because I recall Icelandair being interested in Miami or FortLauderdale. Any chances WOW will bring KEF-MIA back?
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
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Bigant0408
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:40 pm

I can picture FI starting service at either or within 2-3 years on a 4-5 day service especially with more 737 MAX 8 and 9 coming in. I doubt WW would return only because of there new plans to double up on services for the higher end markets in the USA and plus lack of aircraft available I'd assume.
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FA9295
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:49 pm

I could see FI doing FLL-KEF. Seems like the kind of market that they could reach into. MCO-KEF has been successful (from what I've heard).
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:57 pm

FA9295 wrote:
I could see FI doing FLL-KEF. Seems like the kind of market that they could reach into. MCO-KEF has been successful (from what I've heard).


They've flown MCO-KEF (SFB-KEF in 2005-2014) for over 20 years, growing from 2x weekly to daily service so you're correct it's been successful.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
MAH4546
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:06 pm

One of the issues is that the main point of these flights is to connect people over the other points with "easy 1-stop" service to cities that have more limited European service. But Miami/Fort Lauderdale have non-stops to about 25-30 cities in Europe/ME/Africa, and the prices are already competitive. Combined with the longer stage length than Northeast destinations, and it's more difficult to convince people to connect in Iceland.
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SRQKEF
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:15 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
One of the issues is that the main point of these flights is to connect people over the other points with "easy 1-stop" service to cities that have more limited European service. But Miami/Fort Lauderdale have non-stops to about 25-30 cities in Europe/ME/Africa, and the prices are already competitive. Combined with the longer stage length than Northeast destinations, and it's more difficult to convince people to connect in Iceland.


I buy that argument to a point, but I also have to mention Icelandair thrive in markets such as BOS, NYC, WAS, ORD, MCO, SFO and YYZ that all have similar or higher levels of competition than MIA. Time will tell if they see a similar opportunity in Southern Florida.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
MAH4546
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:52 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
One of the issues is that the main point of these flights is to connect people over the other points with "easy 1-stop" service to cities that have more limited European service. But Miami/Fort Lauderdale have non-stops to about 25-30 cities in Europe/ME/Africa, and the prices are already competitive. Combined with the longer stage length than Northeast destinations, and it's more difficult to convince people to connect in Iceland.


I buy that argument to a point, but I also have to mention Icelandair thrive in markets such as BOS, NYC, WAS, ORD, MCO, SFO and YYZ that all have similar or higher levels of competition than MIA. Time will tell if they see a similar opportunity in Southern Florida.


Only NYC and YYZ have similar levels of service and competition. The rest don’t come close. And not even sure why Orlando is mentioned at all, it’s in a totally different, lower league than SF, IAD, ORD in terms of service.

Miami has around 30 trans-Atlantic airlines. Icelandic pair aside, pretty sure every European airline that flies between the U.S. and Europe except Brussels Airlines and Air Serbia flies to Miami. And then you have El Al, Emirates, Qatar and now Royal Air Maroc on top of that.
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Lapplander800
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Re: Any chances of FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:20 pm

Geminijets101 wrote:
Will service ever resume because I recall Icelandair being interested in Miami or FortLauderdale. Any chances WOW will bring KEF-MIA back?


Yes, they have been so interested that they actually flew seasonally to FLL for a few years. Its been a while and their operation is of a different scale so perhaps they will try again.
 
crescent
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Re: Any chances of FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:36 pm

Remember, DY flies to a lot of European places nonstop from FLL - hard to appeal to the price crowd with a 1-stop service at a similar price.
 
727LOVER
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:44 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Miami has around 30 trans-Atlantic airlines. Icelandic pair aside, pretty sure every European airline that flies between the U.S. and Europe except Brussels Airlines and Air Serbia flies to Miami. And then you have El Al, Emirates, Qatar and now Royal Air Maroc on top of that.


Emirates flies to MiA....since when?
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Brickell305
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:49 pm

727LOVER wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Miami has around 30 trans-Atlantic airlines. Icelandic pair aside, pretty sure every European airline that flies between the U.S. and Europe except Brussels Airlines and Air Serbia flies to Miami. And then you have El Al, Emirates, Qatar and now Royal Air Maroc on top of that.


Emirates flies to MiA....since when?

I suspect he's using the metro area (MIA+FLL) seeing as the OP asked about FLL or MIA and because Norwegian, for example, doesn't fly to MIA either but he includes it in "every European airline...except Brussels Arilines".
 
jeffh747
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Re: Any chances of FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:56 pm

I think Icelandair coming to FLL can be possible. They codeshare with jetBlue and I’m sure that even with the heavy competition faced by DY, the extra bookings that come along with the codeshare would help offset some of the profit loss caused by Norwegian. I honestly think they could support a 4x weekly 757-200, and definitely a 6 or 7 weekly 737MAX.
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clrd4t8koff
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:19 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
One of the issues is that the main point of these flights is to connect people over the other points with "easy 1-stop" service to cities that have more limited European service. But Miami/Fort Lauderdale have non-stops to about 25-30 cities in Europe/ME/Africa, and the prices are already competitive. Combined with the longer stage length than Northeast destinations, and it's more difficult to convince people to connect in Iceland.


I buy that argument to a point, but I also have to mention Icelandair thrive in markets such as BOS, NYC, WAS, ORD, MCO, SFO and YYZ that all have similar or higher levels of competition than MIA. Time will tell if they see a similar opportunity in Southern Florida.


Only NYC and YYZ have similar levels of service and competition. The rest don’t come close. And not even sure why Orlando is mentioned at all, it’s in a totally different, lower league than SF, IAD, ORD in terms of service.

Miami has around 30 trans-Atlantic airlines. Icelandic pair aside, pretty sure every European airline that flies between the U.S. and Europe except Brussels Airlines and Air Serbia flies to Miami. And then you have El Al, Emirates, Qatar and now Royal Air Maroc on top of that.


Miami has 22 Trans-Atlantic airlines, which is around 20 not 30. If you want to include FLL then they have 23 (Norwegian).....again closer to 20 than 30:

Aer Lingus
Aeroflot
Air Europa
Air France
Air Italy
American
Alitalia
Austrian
British Airways
Eurowings
Finnair
Iberia
KLM
LOT
Lufthansa
SAS
Swiss
TAP
TUI fly
Turkish
Virgin Atlantic
XL Airways France

Boston has 19 Trans-Atlantic airlines:

Aer Lingus
Air France
Alitalia
Azores Airlines
British Airways
Delta
Iberia
Icelandair
KLM
LEVEL
Lufthansa
Norwegian
SAS
Swiss
TAP
Turkish
Thomas Cook
Virgin Atlantic
WOW

San Francisco has 19 (including OAK & SJC):

Aer Lingus
Air France
British Airways
French Bee
Iberia
Icelandair
KLM
LEVEL
Lufthansa
Norwegian
SAS
Swiss
TAP
Turkish
Thomas Cook
United
Virgin Atlantic
WOW
XL Airways France

What am I missing that MIA/FLL has a whopping 4 more TATL airlines than Boston or San Francisco and that makes them "not come close" to the level of service of your dear Miami?
 
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Re: Any chances of FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:44 pm

jeffh747 wrote:
I think Icelandair coming to FLL can be possible. They codeshare with jetBlue and I’m sure that even with the heavy competition faced by DY, the extra bookings that come along with the codeshare would help offset some of the profit loss caused by Norwegian. I honestly think they could support a 4x weekly 757-200, and definitely a 6 or 7 weekly 737MAX.



Icelandair did fly to FLL once upon a time. About twenty years ago IIRC.
 
MAH4546
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:45 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:

I buy that argument to a point, but I also have to mention Icelandair thrive in markets such as BOS, NYC, WAS, ORD, MCO, SFO and YYZ that all have similar or higher levels of competition than MIA. Time will tell if they see a similar opportunity in Southern Florida.


Only NYC and YYZ have similar levels of service and competition. The rest don’t come close. And not even sure why Orlando is mentioned at all, it’s in a totally different, lower league than SF, IAD, ORD in terms of service.

Miami has around 30 trans-Atlantic airlines. Icelandic pair aside, pretty sure every European airline that flies between the U.S. and Europe except Brussels Airlines and Air Serbia flies to Miami. And then you have El Al, Emirates, Qatar and now Royal Air Maroc on top of that.


Miami has 22 Trans-Atlantic airlines, which is around 20 not 30. If you want to include FLL then they have 23 (Norwegian).....again closer to 20 than 30:

Aer Lingus
Aeroflot
Air Europa
Air France
Air Italy
American
Alitalia
Austrian
British Airways
Eurowings
Finnair
Iberia
KLM
LOT
Lufthansa
SAS
Swiss
TAP
TUI fly
Turkish
Virgin Atlantic
XL Airways France

Boston has 19 Trans-Atlantic airlines:

Aer Lingus
Air France
Alitalia
Azores Airlines
British Airways
Delta
Iberia
Icelandair
KLM
LEVEL
Lufthansa
Norwegian
SAS
Swiss
TAP
Turkish
Thomas Cook
Virgin Atlantic
WOW

San Francisco has 19 (including OAK & SJC):

Aer Lingus
Air France
British Airways
French Bee
Iberia
Icelandair
KLM
LEVEL
Lufthansa
Norwegian
SAS
Swiss
TAP
Turkish
Thomas Cook
United
Virgin Atlantic
WOW
XL Airways France

What am I missing that MIA/FLL has a whopping 4 more TATL airlines than Boston or San Francisco and that makes them "not come close" to the level of service of your dear Miami?


You are missing Emirates, Qatar, El Al, Royal Air Maroc, Arkefly (or whatever it’s called now). And you are missing the level of frequency for these carriers (eg BA is triple daily to MIA, LX is double daily, so is IB) is often more. MIA has better coverage tonEuripe than the rest. End of story. It is also not a four hour flight away like Boston. Plus there’s he reality that Miami, like Boston, SF, Orlando and LA, and increasingly smaller markets like Denver and Tampa, is grossly overserved to Europe. This stuff is not going to last.
Last edited by MAH4546 on Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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IADCA
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:50 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
One of the issues is that the main point of these flights is to connect people over the other points with "easy 1-stop" service to cities that have more limited European service. But Miami/Fort Lauderdale have non-stops to about 25-30 cities in Europe/ME/Africa, and the prices are already competitive. Combined with the longer stage length than Northeast destinations, and it's more difficult to convince people to connect in Iceland.


I buy that argument to a point, but I also have to mention Icelandair thrive in markets such as BOS, NYC, WAS, ORD, MCO, SFO and YYZ that all have similar or higher levels of competition than MIA. Time will tell if they see a similar opportunity in Southern Florida.


Only NYC and YYZ have similar levels of service and competition. The rest don’t come close. And not even sure why Orlando is mentioned at all, it’s in a totally different, lower league than SF, IAD, ORD in terms of service.

Miami has around 30 trans-Atlantic airlines. Icelandic pair aside, pretty sure every European airline that flies between the U.S. and Europe except Brussels Airlines and Air Serbia flies to Miami. And then you have El Al, Emirates, Qatar and now Royal Air Maroc on top of that.


Azores, Ukraine, Corsair, Condor, and Level all fly transatlantic without flying to Miami. Norwegian is of course at FLL, but not MIA. LOT isn't in MIA quite yet either. I don't think the above discussion is particularly relevant - especially as it comes to the ME and Africa, as that's just a lot of coverage that's of no interest to FI, which doesn't fly to those places.

It strikes me that there are four real points here, which strike me as a unique combination to MIA versus the comparables above: (1) MIA/FLL are outside easy 757 range; (2) the area already has a lot of N/S service to a lot of places in Europe and (3) a fair amount of that service is budget-segment (charters, Norwegian); and (4) a decent amount of that service is to secondary cities in Europe that WW/FI rely on and that don't have many nonstops on the US side (e.g., OSL, ARN, HEL, DUS).
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:32 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Only NYC and YYZ have similar levels of service and competition. The rest don’t come close. And not even sure why Orlando is mentioned at all, it’s in a totally different, lower league than SF, IAD, ORD in terms of service.

Miami has around 30 trans-Atlantic airlines. Icelandic pair aside, pretty sure every European airline that flies between the U.S. and Europe except Brussels Airlines and Air Serbia flies to Miami. And then you have El Al, Emirates, Qatar and now Royal Air Maroc on top of that.


Miami has 22 Trans-Atlantic airlines, which is around 20 not 30. If you want to include FLL then they have 23 (Norwegian).....again closer to 20 than 30:

Aer Lingus
Aeroflot
Air Europa
Air France
Air Italy
American
Alitalia
Austrian
British Airways
Eurowings
Finnair
Iberia
KLM
LOT
Lufthansa
SAS
Swiss
TAP
TUI fly
Turkish
Virgin Atlantic
XL Airways France

Boston has 19 Trans-Atlantic airlines:

Aer Lingus
Air France
Alitalia
Azores Airlines
British Airways
Delta
Iberia
Icelandair
KLM
LEVEL
Lufthansa
Norwegian
SAS
Swiss
TAP
Turkish
Thomas Cook
Virgin Atlantic
WOW

San Francisco has 19 (including OAK & SJC):

Aer Lingus
Air France
British Airways
French Bee
Iberia
Icelandair
KLM
LEVEL
Lufthansa
Norwegian
SAS
Swiss
TAP
Turkish
Thomas Cook
United
Virgin Atlantic
WOW
XL Airways France

What am I missing that MIA/FLL has a whopping 4 more TATL airlines than Boston or San Francisco and that makes them "not come close" to the level of service of your dear Miami?


You are missing Emirates, Qatar, El Al, Royal Air Maroc, Arkefly (or whatever it’s called now). And you are missing the level of frequency for these carriers (eg BA is triple daily to MIA, LX is double daily, so is IB) is often more. MIA has better coverage tonEuripe than the rest. End of story. It is also not a four hour flight away like Boston. Plus there’s he reality that Miami, like Boston, SF, Orlando and LA, and increasingly smaller markets like Denver and Tampa, is grossly overserved to Europe. This stuff is not going to last.


End of story nothing. BOS has Emirates, Qatar, El Al, TACV, 4x daily BA, LX goes double daily, EI is 2x daily to DUB and 1x to SNN, FI is 2x daily to KEF, AF/DL goes triple daily to CDG, LH goes double daily to FRA, DL/KL is 3x daily to AMS, DL also has LIS and EDI and the list goes on and on. There's not much of a difference between BOS, SFO and MIA service to Europe for you to make a grossly overstated comment that BOS & SFO don't "come close" to the level of service of MIA. It's just so absurd how you inflate MIA's service and say that only JFK & YYZ can compare. Quite frankly MIA doesn't compare to JFK or YYZ.
 
B752OS
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:20 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

What am I missing that MIA/FLL has a whopping 4 more TATL airlines than Boston or San Francisco and that makes them "not come close" to the level of service of your dear Miami?


You are missing Emirates, Qatar, El Al, Royal Air Maroc, Arkefly (or whatever it’s called now). And you are missing the level of frequency for these carriers (eg BA is triple daily to MIA, LX is double daily, so is IB) is often more. MIA has better coverage tonEuripe than the rest. End of story. It is also not a four hour flight away like Boston. Plus there’s he reality that Miami, like Boston, SF, Orlando and LA, and increasingly smaller markets like Denver and Tampa, is grossly overserved to Europe. This stuff is not going to last.


End of story nothing. BOS has Emirates, Qatar, El Al, TACV, 4x daily BA, LX goes double daily, EI is 2x daily to DUB and 1x to SNN, FI is 2x daily to KEF, AF/DL goes triple daily to CDG, LH goes double daily to FRA, DL/KL is 3x daily to AMS, DL also has LIS and EDI and the list goes on and on. There's not much of a difference between BOS, SFO and MIA service to Europe for you to make a grossly overstated comment that BOS & SFO don't "come close" to the level of service of MIA. It's just so absurd how you inflate MIA's service and say that only JFK & YYZ can compare. Quite frankly MIA doesn't compare to JFK or YYZ.


Miami and South Florida, including FLL, have more carriers and flights to Europe than Boston and San Francisco do. But the difference is not as large as the OP would have you believe. It's not nearly as large of a difference as say SFO's level of service to Asia vs MIA/FLL's level of service to Asia.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Any chances of FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:34 pm

Didn’t WW flying to MIA?
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26411
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:29 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Miami has 22 Trans-Atlantic airlines, which is around 20 not 30. If you want to include FLL then they have 23 (Norwegian).....again closer to 20 than 30:

Aer Lingus
Aeroflot
Air Europa
Air France
Air Italy
American
Alitalia
Austrian
British Airways
Eurowings
Finnair
Iberia
KLM
LOT
Lufthansa
SAS
Swiss
TAP
TUI fly
Turkish
Virgin Atlantic
XL Airways France

Boston has 19 Trans-Atlantic airlines:

Aer Lingus
Air France
Alitalia
Azores Airlines
British Airways
Delta
Iberia
Icelandair
KLM
LEVEL
Lufthansa
Norwegian
SAS
Swiss
TAP
Turkish
Thomas Cook
Virgin Atlantic
WOW

San Francisco has 19 (including OAK & SJC):

Aer Lingus
Air France
British Airways
French Bee
Iberia
Icelandair
KLM
LEVEL
Lufthansa
Norwegian
SAS
Swiss
TAP
Turkish
Thomas Cook
United
Virgin Atlantic
WOW
XL Airways France

What am I missing that MIA/FLL has a whopping 4 more TATL airlines than Boston or San Francisco and that makes them "not come close" to the level of service of your dear Miami?


You are missing Emirates, Qatar, El Al, Royal Air Maroc, Arkefly (or whatever it’s called now). And you are missing the level of frequency for these carriers (eg BA is triple daily to MIA, LX is double daily, so is IB) is often more. MIA has better coverage tonEuripe than the rest. End of story. It is also not a four hour flight away like Boston. Plus there’s he reality that Miami, like Boston, SF, Orlando and LA, and increasingly smaller markets like Denver and Tampa, is grossly overserved to Europe. This stuff is not going to last.


End of story nothing. BOS has Emirates, Qatar, El Al, TACV, 4x daily BA, LX goes double daily, EI is 2x daily to DUB and 1x to SNN, FI is 2x daily to KEF, AF/DL goes triple daily to CDG, LH goes double daily to FRA, DL/KL is 3x daily to AMS, DL also has LIS and EDI and the list goes on and on. There's not much of a difference between BOS, SFO and MIA service to Europe for you to make a grossly overstated comment that BOS & SFO don't "come close" to the level of service of MIA. It's just so absurd how you inflate MIA's service and say that only JFK & YYZ can compare. Quite frankly MIA doesn't compare to JFK or YYZ.


We’ll agree to disagree. 1 out of 10 European Travellers is destined to Miami (3 out of 10 to nyc). No other markets reach that level. Not to mention, unlike Boston and SF, the majority of Miami’s Europe service levels are constant year-round. Though Miami is grossly over served, just like Boston and all, and these service levels can’t continue. And Ukraine is coming to Miami next with flights to Kiev, already announced, adding to the overcapacity.
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B752OS
Posts: 1272
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:42 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
One of the issues is that the main point of these flights is to connect people over the other points with "easy 1-stop" service to cities that have more limited European service. But Miami/Fort Lauderdale have non-stops to about 25-30 cities in Europe/ME/Africa, and the prices are already competitive. Combined with the longer stage length than Northeast destinations, and it's more difficult to convince people to connect in Iceland.


I buy that argument to a point, but I also have to mention Icelandair thrive in markets such as BOS, NYC, WAS, ORD, MCO, SFO and YYZ that all have similar or higher levels of competition than MIA. Time will tell if they see a similar opportunity in Southern Florida.


Only NYC and YYZ have similar levels of service and competition. The rest don’t come close. And not even sure why Orlando is mentioned at all, it’s in a totally different, lower league than SF, IAD, ORD in terms of service.

Miami has around 30 trans-Atlantic airlines. Icelandic pair aside, pretty sure every European airline that flies between the U.S. and Europe except Brussels Airlines and Air Serbia flies to Miami. And then you have El Al, Emirates, Qatar and now Royal Air Maroc on top of that.


The gap between JFK/EWR and YYZ to MIA/FLL is a lot larger than the gap between MIA/FLL to SFO and BOS. YYZ alone has significantly more service to Europe than MIA does.
 
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Geminijets101
Topic Author
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:42 am

Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:48 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

You are missing Emirates, Qatar, El Al, Royal Air Maroc, Arkefly (or whatever it’s called now). And you are missing the level of frequency for these carriers (eg BA is triple daily to MIA, LX is double daily, so is IB) is often more. MIA has better coverage tonEuripe than the rest. End of story. It is also not a four hour flight away like Boston. Plus there’s he reality that Miami, like Boston, SF, Orlando and LA, and increasingly smaller markets like Denver and Tampa, is grossly overserved to Europe. This stuff is not going to last.


End of story nothing. BOS has Emirates, Qatar, El Al, TACV, 4x daily BA, LX goes double daily, EI is 2x daily to DUB and 1x to SNN, FI is 2x daily to KEF, AF/DL goes triple daily to CDG, LH goes double daily to FRA, DL/KL is 3x daily to AMS, DL also has LIS and EDI and the list goes on and on. There's not much of a difference between BOS, SFO and MIA service to Europe for you to make a grossly overstated comment that BOS & SFO don't "come close" to the level of service of MIA. It's just so absurd how you inflate MIA's service and say that only JFK & YYZ can compare. Quite frankly MIA doesn't compare to JFK or YYZ.


We’ll agree to disagree. 1 out of 10 European Travellers is destined to Miami (3 out of 10 to nyc). No other markets reach that level. Not to mention, unlike Boston and SF, the majority of Miami’s Europe service levels are constant year-round. Though Miami is grossly over served, just like Boston and all, and these service levels can’t continue. And Ukraine is coming to Miami next with flights to Kiev, already announced, adding to the overcapacity.


UIA to Miami? For real?
Cíao
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26411
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:01 pm

Geminijets101 wrote:

UIA to Miami? For real?


Yup. They've announced it. Let's see if it happens - they are growing steadily I suspect it actually will.
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SCQ83
Posts: 5828
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:01 pm

IADCA wrote:
Azores, Ukraine, Corsair, Condor, and Level all fly transatlantic without flying to Miami. Norwegian is of course at FLL, but not MIA. LOT isn't in MIA quite yet either. I don't think the above discussion is particularly relevant - especially as it comes to the ME and Africa, as that's just a lot of coverage that's of no interest to FI, which doesn't fly to those places.


LEVEL does not fly to MIA but Iberia (aka LEVEL Barcelona) flies MIA-BCN with the TATL JV.
 
IADCA
Posts: 2203
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:36 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

You are missing Emirates, Qatar, El Al, Royal Air Maroc, Arkefly (or whatever it’s called now). And you are missing the level of frequency for these carriers (eg BA is triple daily to MIA, LX is double daily, so is IB) is often more. MIA has better coverage tonEuripe than the rest. End of story. It is also not a four hour flight away like Boston. Plus there’s he reality that Miami, like Boston, SF, Orlando and LA, and increasingly smaller markets like Denver and Tampa, is grossly overserved to Europe. This stuff is not going to last.


End of story nothing. BOS has Emirates, Qatar, El Al, TACV, 4x daily BA, LX goes double daily, EI is 2x daily to DUB and 1x to SNN, FI is 2x daily to KEF, AF/DL goes triple daily to CDG, LH goes double daily to FRA, DL/KL is 3x daily to AMS, DL also has LIS and EDI and the list goes on and on. There's not much of a difference between BOS, SFO and MIA service to Europe for you to make a grossly overstated comment that BOS & SFO don't "come close" to the level of service of MIA. It's just so absurd how you inflate MIA's service and say that only JFK & YYZ can compare. Quite frankly MIA doesn't compare to JFK or YYZ.


We’ll agree to disagree. 1 out of 10 European Travellers is destined to Miami (3 out of 10 to nyc). No other markets reach that level. Not to mention, unlike Boston and SF, the majority of Miami’s Europe service levels are constant year-round. Though Miami is grossly over served, just like Boston and all, and these service levels can’t continue. And Ukraine is coming to Miami next with flights to Kiev, already announced, adding to the overcapacity.


Nothing quite like moving the goalposts when the facts don't match the strength of your assertions... :roll:

SCQ83 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
Azores, Ukraine, Corsair, Condor, and Level all fly transatlantic without flying to Miami. Norwegian is of course at FLL, but not MIA. LOT isn't in MIA quite yet either. I don't think the above discussion is particularly relevant - especially as it comes to the ME and Africa, as that's just a lot of coverage that's of no interest to FI, which doesn't fly to those places.


LEVEL does not fly to MIA but Iberia (aka LEVEL Barcelona) flies MIA-BCN with the TATL JV.


Yes, and if we want to get into JV partners, then you might as well sweep in Austrian ("Lufthansa Vienna") and Brussels ("Eurowings/Lufthansa Brussels"). But if we're going to go down the rabbit hole of airline-that-doesn't-fly-there-actually-flies-there-because-JV, we're quickly in a very different discussion in which we more or less just make up new facts because we didn't like the old ones, which is more or less what this thread has devolved into even without that push.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5828
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:47 pm

IADCA wrote:
Yes, and if we want to get into JV partners, then you might as well sweep in Austrian ("Lufthansa Vienna") and Brussels ("Eurowings/Lufthansa Brussels"). But if we're going to go down the rabbit hole of airline-that-doesn't-fly-there-actually-flies-there-because-JV, we're quickly in a very different discussion in which we more or less just make up new facts because we didn't like the old ones, which is more or less what this thread has devolved into even without that push.


It is not comparable. LEVEL at Barcelona is just a marketing brand. All those flights BCN-BOS have the "IB" code. So hieratically speaking Iberia is flying MAD-BOS and BCN-BOS. Yet with the JV TATL there are way more seats on BCN-MIA than BCN-BOS.
 
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Geminijets101
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:48 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
Azores, Ukraine, Corsair, Condor, and Level all fly transatlantic without flying to Miami. Norwegian is of course at FLL, but not MIA. LOT isn't in MIA quite yet either. I don't think the above discussion is particularly relevant - especially as it comes to the ME and Africa, as that's just a lot of coverage that's of no interest to FI, which doesn't fly to those places.


LEVEL does not fly to MIA but Iberia (aka LEVEL Barcelona) flies MIA-BCN with the TATL JV.



Only AA does MIA-BCN
Cíao
 
IADCA
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:41 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
Yes, and if we want to get into JV partners, then you might as well sweep in Austrian ("Lufthansa Vienna") and Brussels ("Eurowings/Lufthansa Brussels"). But if we're going to go down the rabbit hole of airline-that-doesn't-fly-there-actually-flies-there-because-JV, we're quickly in a very different discussion in which we more or less just make up new facts because we didn't like the old ones, which is more or less what this thread has devolved into even without that push.


It is not comparable. LEVEL at Barcelona is just a marketing brand. All those flights BCN-BOS have the "IB" code. So hieratically speaking Iberia is flying MAD-BOS and BCN-BOS. Yet with the JV TATL there are way more seats on BCN-MIA than BCN-BOS.


LEVEL is currently just a marketing brand everywhere, but it's not always IB operating it. It's more a virtual airline than anything else, and it's certainly a distinct entity from IB - IB's planes are less than half its fleet. And as mentioned by another poster, this is sorta silly as IB doesn't even fly MIA-BCN.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26411
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Re: FLL or MIA to KEF?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:17 pm

IADCA wrote:

LEVEL is currently just a marketing brand everywhere, but it's not always IB operating it. It's more a virtual airline than anything else, and it's certainly a distinct entity from IB - IB's planes are less than half its fleet. And as mentioned by another poster, this is sorta silly as IB doesn't even fly MIA-BCN.


It does not, but AA flies it daily under JV with Iberia. AA actually took the route over from Iberia back in 2011 or so. And while I think Level will make it to MIA eventually, I don't think it will happen from Barcelona will it will cannibalize AA's service. I suspect maybe Rome, if LEVEL ever starts long-haul from there. Or possibly Paris-Orly, as even though AA flies Miami-Paris, there is so little non-stop capacity in the market compared to demand, it probably won't be too much of a hurt.
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