Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
fessor
Topic Author
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:26 pm

helicopter crash in Leicester

Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:26 pm

just saw this on different media's
hope everyone is ok

https://news.sky.com/story/helicopter-c ... m-11537872
 
lowbank
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:36 pm

I think they died looking at the pictures
Every days a school day.
 
lowbank
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:37 pm

I think they died looking at the pictures
Every days a school day.
 
lowbank
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:37 pm

Why three times
Every days a school day.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:57 pm

Horrible news. As a football fan terrible for Leicester City - he's an owner that gave SO much to that club and by extension the people of that city.

Routinely the helicopter comes in and out before and after Foxes matches. Never been a hint of a problem that I know of previously.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:12 pm

Omg, that’s so sad, I was born and grew up in Leicester, I know that area well and have been to the King Power. That helicopter was the pride and joy of the owners and would regularly leave from the pitch after a game. If the owner was on board and died that is going to send shockwaves around the city because of what they have brought to the team and the city during their ownership.I will be watching the coverage of this with great interest and to think I had just watched them finish their game against West Ham, on TV but i digress. Like Jamie Vardy I will be sending prayers to all involved, directly or indirectly
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 4271
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:05 am

I just read that it has been confirmed, Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, owner and president of the club, was indeed on board of that helicopter. However his son and vice president of the club, Aiyawatt Srivaddhanaprabha, was not on board and neither was was director Jon Rudkin.

In Dutch: https://www.nu.nl/voetbal/5538545/eigen ... opter.html
 
User avatar
mach144
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:28 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:40 am

Last moments of people onboard AW169 ... R.I.P.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... On58NfaSXg
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 824
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:48 am

Do we know the status of anyone. Lots of reports Vichai was on board, but nothing regarding if anyone on board died/survived.
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 1652
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:09 am

LupineChemist wrote:
Do we know the status of anyone. Lots of reports Vichai was on board, but nothing regarding if anyone on board died/survived.


I just read on The Independent and BBC sites that his daughter was also on board, the two pilots and an as yet unaccounted for fifth person. Very sad news for UK football fans today...
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 824
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:46 am

We don't have any confirmation that anyone on board has died. Lots of crashes have looked bad with miraculous results, lets not declare them dead prematurely.

News sources are only confirming who was on board but nobody has actually indicated a death.
 
Fitlikemin
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:48 am

Sadly, we also don't have any confirmation that anyone is in or was taken to hospital.
 
Armodeen
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:51 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
We don't have any confirmation that anyone on board has died. Lots of crashes have looked bad with miraculous results, lets not declare them dead prematurely.

News sources are only confirming who was on board but nobody has actually indicated a death.


No notice or footage of anyone being taken to hospital or even being removed from the wreckage.

RIP to all on board it seems.

Very sad. I am surprised no footage of the actual accident hasn’t arisen given the public area it occurred in.
 
TC957
Posts: 3816
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:00 pm

I would have thought security cameras must have captured the fatal last seconds - could be vital evidence in the investigation.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 732
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:11 pm

Armodeen wrote:
Very sad. I am surprised no footage of the actual accident hasn’t arisen given the public area it occurred in.


It came down in an almost derelict fenced off area about 200 metres to the south east of the stadium. The view would have been obstructed by lots of trees to the south and a sizeable building to the north. It's apparently used for staff car parking.

The foot traffic would have mostly been well to the north, the other side of the stadium. The match day carpark is right next to the crash site, but again mostly blocked by trees.

I wonder if the industrial units? immediately adjacent to the crash site had CCTV, not that I really want to see it.
 
eicvd
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:11 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:23 pm

Mr Srivaddhanaprabha was also a prominent race horse owner. My thoughts are with those involved in this accident, their families & their friends.
COYBIB
 
eicvd
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:11 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:24 pm

Mr Srivaddhanaprabha was also a prominent race horse owner. My thoughts are with those involved in this accident, their families & their friends.
COYBIB
 
Jalap
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:43 pm

Isnt it weird that 24 hours after the crash there still is no official report about casualties, both in the craft and possibly on the ground?
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:09 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lei ... e-46013381
Just confirmed that Chairman was indeed on board and also inferred that 5 total were in the helicopter and all perished

A sad sad day in my hometown, RIP to all involved, their families and friends and all connected to Leicester City, while this is an aviation site, this accident transcends it and is deeply going to affect the city.
I hope we find how this tragedy actually occurred (although some sensible theories are out there )
Just terrible
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
User avatar
neutrino
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

~ V C

Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:40 am

eicvd wrote:
Mr Srivaddhanaprabha was also a prominent race horse owner. My thoughts are with those involved in this accident, their families & their friends.

Just to set the record straight, according to Thai conventions, the gentleman should be referred as Mr Vichai or Khun Vichai, using their own honorific. The given name, not the family name, comes after the courtesy title.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: ~ V C

Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:58 am

neutrino wrote:
eicvd wrote:
Mr Srivaddhanaprabha was also a prominent race horse owner. My thoughts are with those involved in this accident, their families & their friends.

Just to set the record straight, according to Thai conventions, the gentleman should be referred as Mr Vichai or Khun Vichai, using their own honorific. The given name, not the family name, comes after the courtesy title.


Kawp khun krap
 
aamd11
Posts: 916
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 11:54 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:00 am

Leicestershire police have named the other four passengers as Nursara Suknamai and Kaveporn Punpare, both members of Vichai’s staff, pilot Eric Swaffer and passenger Izabela Roza Lechowicz.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/oct/28/leicester-city-owner-dead-helicopter-crash-vichai-srivaddhanaprabha

Final confirmation of everything we feared since the news broke - five people have perished in terrible circumstances right outside the ground, and not long after the game had ended. One pilot operating, and the passenger was also a pilot (reading a Guardian article, seems that the passenger may have been the pilot's partner).

It's a heartbreaking event for the club, the fans, the city. Take a look at some of the pictures from the stadium today, the flowers, the shirts, the candles, you soon appreciate the sentiment in the city right now - fans of Leicester City and even rival clubs.

Sad day.
 
mattyfitzg
Posts: 263
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:29 pm

Hate to link the s*n here, some of you may have seen this already but here is footage of the accident.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7620935/l ... atal-spin/
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 2367
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:44 am

Wow ... that's powerful. S*n or not ... one doesn't see footage of an accident often. Poor people. :-(

Does clear up a few claims from eyewitness reports .... some witnesses claimed it went silent, and fell out of the sky; clearly it is still under at least some power.

Others say they heard a bang, then a grinding sound .... doesn't seem to be in the video, either.

The video is too grainy to see the tail rotor, so hard to know what happened there ... but the spin we see could well indicate a failure there.

What is clear is that there was a sudden, catastrophic, loss of control.

How the pilot got that thing up and over the stadium roof is simply stunning. It could easily have come down in the stadium, on the roof, etc, and resulted in a much, much worse scenario.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8986
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:19 am

Without prejudging too much, I think that it will be found that this was an accident sequence that the pilot might have been able to aviate into something survivable, although this takeoff profile both enhanced the likelihood of a tail rotor issue and dramatically-limited his options. Only someone highly-vigilant for the known aerodynamic effect that I think was at issue here would have been able to react correctly and fast enough to limit the severity of the incident. That didn't happen here.

It looks like they had well-cleared the stadium height and continued to climb. This looks more like an LTE (loss of tail rotor effectiveness) than a complete tail rotor failure. I don't want to try to give an aerodynamics lecture here (and might not be the best to do it). However, LTE occurs most often at high power settings (check) when hovering out of ground effect (check) and there is a change in prevailing wind (don't know, but makes sense as it rises above the lip of the stadium). Also, because it appeared that there was a little breeze on the field that caused the helicopter to move forward once it left ground contact, the hover/climb was conducted with the cyclic pulled slightly aft. All of this sets up the possibility of experiencing LTE. At a hover out of ground effect at a high power setting like the one that was required here, I would imagine that the spin resulting from a total tail rotor failure would have been much faster and snapped in much more violently. This one, instead, seemed to develop, which looks to me more like LTE.

The obvious response to a tail rotor failure or LTE is to chop the power, forcing the transmission to do an engine/rotor disconnect. The spin will stop immediately, but you then immediately must execute an autorotation, or at least enter into one. At hover in ground effect, you let the helicopter start to settle and cushion the landing with a smooth upwards application of collective pitch, using the kinetic energy in the rotor system to cushion the landing. At a decent altitude with some forward speed, you bottom the collective so that rotor system keeps turning and developing kinetic energy from the loss of altitude (air rushing up through it). All helicopters have an optimal unpowered forward speed for slowest rate of descent, which is a memory item. They also have an optimal unpowered forward speed to make the most distance. Lose the tail rotor completely in a hover at a decent altitude, you enter the autorotation and apply forward cyclic to develop forward speed and complete the landing like any autorotation. If you experience LTE in a hover out of ground effect at a decent altitude, you bottom the collective, enter the autorotation, and develop some forward speed. This is usually enough to suppress the LTE and permit you to make a prompt recovery under power (i.e. pull the power back in and cause the rotor system to reconnect and continue flying as you originally-intended).

However, outside the Dead Man's Curve, as it would appear that they are for most of the takeoff sequence, doing any of these things becomes a lot more difficult. Without forward speed, you're going to lose a lot of altitude very quickly trying an autorotation, but it was their only chance and the pilot didn't do it. The continued spin, and the sound of continuous power from the engine, suggests that no autorotation was attempted. Of course, when you have flown a bunch of hours as pilot of a reliable jet-engined helicopter, one is unlikely to be training and retraining and retraining autorotations. I personally think they should be done regularly to the ground by experienced pilots, so they can develop confidence in their ability to do it and not hesitate, but I'm in a minority.

One remedy for either LTE or total failure, even under power, is forward speed. Had the helicopter developed even a relatively-low forward velocity, the loss of tail rotor effectiveness would have had much opportunity to develop; it is possible that if it developed slowly they could have flown out of it by nosing over, although that is unclear. At cruise speed, even a total tail rotor failure will pitch the nose up a bit and change handling characteristics, but the thing won't spin because of the air rushing by the sides of the fuselage and the stabilizer.

In my view, choosing this kind of takeoff profile as their regular practice was a real mistake, one that ultimately proved fatal. At the least, the pilot should have been constantly-vigilant for the onset of LTE as the helicopter climbed past the lip of the stadium. Anybody who was trained in the military during Vietnam or has flown logging helicopters and lived, flies as if the engine is going to quit any second, and is mentally alert to exactly these kind of potential hazards. Sadly, like a cop who doesn't use his gun his whole career, many commercial helicopter pilots are not prepared every trip for something like this to happen -- and they pay the consequences, as do their passengers.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13971
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:26 am

I'm trying to get support for a dedicated helicopter platform on a.net.

If we concentrate helicopter VTOL topics here we can have more in dept discussions, attract more knowledgeable participants.

Helicopters / VTOL is IMO an exciting, dynamic and broad segment of aviation that deserves this, more than e.g. a new "political forum" (?!) that's now being worked on as we speak.

Also terrible accidents like this (RIP) and helicopters accidents could be discussed and concentrated here.

:arrow: Please take a few second to post a few words of support for this additional forum. Thnx!

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20823963#p20823963
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 2367
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:39 pm

wjcandee wrote:
The obvious response to a tail rotor failure or LTE is to chop the power, forcing the transmission to do an engine/rotor disconnect. The spin will stop immediately, but you then immediately must execute an autorotation, or at least enter into one. At hover in ground effect, you let the helicopter start to settle and cushion the landing with a smooth upwards application of collective pitch, using the kinetic energy in the rotor system to cushion the landing. At a decent altitude with some forward speed, you bottom the collective so that rotor system keeps turning and developing kinetic energy from the loss of altitude (air rushing up through it). All helicopters have an optimal unpowered forward speed for slowest rate of descent, which is a memory item. They also have an optimal unpowered forward speed to make the most distance. Lose the tail rotor completely in a hover at a decent altitude, you enter the autorotation and apply forward cyclic to develop forward speed and complete the landing like any autorotation. If you experience LTE in a hover out of ground effect at a decent altitude, you bottom the collective, enter the autorotation, and develop some forward speed. This is usually enough to suppress the LTE and permit you to make a prompt recovery under power (i.e. pull the power back in and cause the rotor system to reconnect and continue flying as you originally-intended).


That is a harrowing scenario you describe ... because if I'm understanding you correctly, their recovery scenario -- when applied to the location (e.g. a takeoff from inside the stadium) -- essentially would have likely resulted in a collision with the stadium stands and/or roof.
 
IADFCO
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 4:20 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:52 am

From the footage just before impact from the security camera (sorry, I can't find the link right now) it would seem that the pilot had managed to reduce the yaw rate to essentially zero, but I can't see any sign of an autorotation-type final flare. The aircraft seems to just sink at an almost constant pitch attitude toward impact with little or no forward speed.
 
cskok8
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:37 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:12 am

Taking off from the middle of a stadium, I don't see any possible flight profile other than straight up
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8986
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:19 am

IADFCO wrote:
From the footage just before impact from the security camera (sorry, I can't find the link right now) it would seem that the pilot had managed to reduce the yaw rate to essentially zero, but I can't see any sign of an autorotation-type final flare. The aircraft seems to just sink at an almost constant pitch attitude toward impact with little or no forward speed.


Interesting because the Twitter footage I saw, which was very good, the thing disappears out of the frame while in a slow spin. But of course I didn't see it all the way down. He lost a lot of altitude before the transmission disconnect, if it occurred, so that's too bad. He may have had trouble causing the disconnect, for a variety of reasons, including realizing that that's what he had to do. I'm not surprised that he couldn't/didn't have a steep flare if he didn't have forward speed. All he could do is try to cushion the landing with the collective which, believe you me, it is hard psychologically to bottom (push down) when you're really craving altitude (vis. AF447 for similar psychological issue). But that's the only way to build up enough kinetic energy to cushion the landing, especially if you're falling essentially straight down from a hover. There also could have been other aerodynamic forces working on the thing at that point to make it difficult to develop forward speed (something that happens sometimes, for example, in vortex ring state). I don't claim to be aware of all the peculiarities of this model, but I do know that each model has its own potentially-dangerous idiosyncrasies (like the Huey Tuck, etc.).

I'm sure that in one of the many military pilot or logging pilot forums out there, someone knowledgeable has analyzed the video better than I can. (I mention military only because, when in action, those guys get a lot of time and a lot of squirrly situations arising from non-optimal flight conditions.) I would be curious to read it if it exists.

On the other hand, there was the allegedly-former Puma pilot who told the BBC that "if you lose your tail rotor, it's almost impossible to get out of". Huh? Did he not have the same training I did in the first 10 hours of instruction? Or have they stopped doing tail-rotor-failure simulations in low hover now like they have to-the-ground autorotations from altitude? Scary the first time, but completely-invaluable learning to chop the engine and do an immediate autorotation to the ground. You never forget how fast the spin stops when the transmission disconnects (and how fast the thing spins before you do).
 
User avatar
AirlineCritic
Posts: 1766
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:33 pm

Wjcandee, thank you for your in-depth explanations. Scary stuff, and something that apparently needs very fast reactions. Sadly they were unable to recover in this accident.
 
User avatar
CARST
Posts: 1556
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:46 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Interesting because the Twitter footage I saw, which was very good, the thing disappears out of the frame while in a slow spin. But of course I didn't see it all the way down. He lost a lot of altitude before the transmission disconnect, if it occurred, so that's too bad. He may have had trouble causing the disconnect, for a variety of reasons, including realizing that that's what he had to do. I'm not surprised that he couldn't/didn't have a steep flare if he didn't have forward speed. All he could do is try to cushion the landing with the collective which, believe you me, it is hard psychologically to bottom (push down) when you're really craving altitude (vis. AF447 for similar psychological issue). But that's the only way to build up enough kinetic energy to cushion the landing, especially if you're falling essentially straight down from a hover. There also could have been other aerodynamic forces working on the thing at that point to make it difficult to develop forward speed (something that happens sometimes, for example, in vortex ring state). I don't claim to be aware of all the peculiarities of this model, but I do know that each model has its own potentially-dangerous idiosyncrasies (like the Huey Tuck, etc.).

I'm sure that in one of the many military pilot or logging pilot forums out there, someone knowledgeable has analyzed the video better than I can. (I mention military only because, when in action, those guys get a lot of time and a lot of squirrly situations arising from non-optimal flight conditions.) I would be curious to read it if it exists.

On the other hand, there was the allegedly-former Puma pilot who told the BBC that "if you lose your tail rotor, it's almost impossible to get out of". Huh? Did he not have the same training I did in the first 10 hours of instruction? Or have they stopped doing tail-rotor-failure simulations in low hover now like they have to-the-ground autorotations from altitude? Scary the first time, but completely-invaluable learning to chop the engine and do an immediate autorotation to the ground. You never forget how fast the spin stops when the transmission disconnects (and how fast the thing spins before you do).


Hey mate, great posts! Very valuable and interesting stuff. Nice to see people for once again bring some real knowledge into a.net, something that has gotten rare in the past two, three years...
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13172
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:10 pm

Thanks wjcandee.

Since they were low and had power, what about trying to just descend by lowering power and collective ?

I didn't know about loss of tail rotor effectiveness, one more reason for me to not be a big fan of helos ha ha. Or give me a Kamov with coaxial rotors.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
asdf
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:03 am

Re: helicopter crash in Leicester

Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:05 am

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos