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FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:46 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
There's not a lot of non-stop capacity on SEA-WAS (looking at 6/3/19):

3x UA SEA-IAD
1x AS SEA-BWI
1x AS SEA-IAD
2x AS SEA-DCA
1x DL SEA-IAD

Maybe there doesn't need to be.

AS doesn't have redeyes in the market - odd, given other eastern markets for AS. DL's sole flight is timed to compete with a UA redeye A320. Maybe the add is a daytime flight?

SEA is arguably the fastest growing airport in the U.S, and the market is currently WAY overserved. Most routes to and from there have always been a bloodbath. And looking at the steady rate that they're economy is improving, and more gate space becomes available at the airport, this will only just continue.
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 784
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:55 pm

That route still gets a ton of feed from AA through the inter line agreement that still exists between AA and QR. just like QR at ORD and EY at ORD. AA still feeds them, regardless of lack of codeshare. And even in its hey day, the free that QR got and even still continues to get at MIA is primarily from domestic cities. One of the largest feeders to the MIA QR flight now has a QR flight of its own. So maybe that feed lessened. Anyway, from Deep South America like SCL, going on Latam to gru and connecting to WR there is way more direct and with better timed connections than flying to Miami. Miami works for Mexico and some Central America.


MAH4546 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
Did a good amount of traffic connect through MIA on AA with the DOH-MIA flights? People flying SCL-MIA-DOH for example.


There's certainly some, but the route survives on MIA local traffic now as AA and QR no longer partner.
 
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KLMatSJC
Posts: 801
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:07 pm

enilria wrote:
I don't know what to make of XE. This stuff is truly new?
XE BUR-LAS DEC 0>5[3] JAN 0>5[3]
XE BUR-OAK DEC 0>4[0] JAN 0>4[3]
*XE LAS-OAK NOV 0.7>1.3[0] DEC 0>2[0] JAN 0>3[0]
*XE LAS-SNA DEC 0>3[0] JAN 0>3[0]
*XE MMH-SNA DEC 0>0.3[0] JAN 0>0.5[0]
XE OAK-RNO NOV 0.8>0[0]
*XE OAK-SNA DEC 0>0.8[0] JAN 0>0.9[0]


Airline has been around for around 2 years now. The December stuff has been out for a while (I booked OAK-LAS for the end of December over a month ago), but I think the January stuff just came out.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
whatusaid
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:03 pm

AA DFW-FAT APR 1.9>2[1.9] MAY 1.9>2[2] JUN 1.8>2[3] JUL 1.9>2[3]

That's not correct based upon the AA schedule load last night. 12:45a Redeye returns April 5 on a M/T/Fr/Sa schedule. 6:05a and 2pm continue as well. All are 738s.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1109
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:06 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
flyboy7974 wrote:
Trying to think back, when did VX/AS start PHXSFO?


I think they flew it last year for spring training.


Correct: VX/AS is the official airline partner of the San Francisco Giants, and there was an A320 with a Giants livery in addition to the seasonal SFO-PHX service to time with the team's Spring Training in Phoenix.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:20 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
There's not a lot of non-stop capacity on SEA-WAS (looking at 6/3/19):

3x UA SEA-IAD
1x AS SEA-BWI
1x AS SEA-IAD
2x AS SEA-DCA
1x DL SEA-IAD

Maybe there doesn't need to be.

AS doesn't have redeyes in the market - odd, given other eastern markets for AS. DL's sole flight is timed to compete with a UA redeye A320. Maybe the add is a daytime flight?

There are a lot of east coast flights on AS that are morning departures with the return flights arriving after 1800 in SEA, which connect to JNU, ANC, FAI, KTN, EAT, GEG, PSC, MFR, RDM, etc... PDX has a lot of redeyes eastbound, but DCA is a mid morning departure as well.
I am surprised that one of the DCA flights isn't a redeye though.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:41 pm

jplatts wrote:
enilria wrote:
*F9 CVG-SAT JAN 0.5>0.1[0] FEB 0.4>0[0] MAR 0.4>0[0] APR 0.4>0[0.3]


In addition to the discontinuation of F9 CVG-SAT nonstop service, I am also not currently seeing any F9 nonstops to ATL, AUS, DFW, JAX, LAX, MSP, LGA, PHL, RDU, and SJC out of CVG in April 2019, even though F9 has already extended its flight schedule through April 29, 2019.

There is likely going to be more demand for WN service out of CVG in Summer 2019 than was the case in the past with F9 significantly cutting back at CVG in 2019, and I think that WN will probably be announcing a few more nonstop routes out of CVG in the 11/15/18 schedule extension with demand for WN service out of CVG expected to be greater than it was in the past.



I just don't know what to think about F9 anymore. During the Potter years, they were profitable, served a niche in the Denver market, had a very loyal following in the cities they flew to. I would compare them to HP before any of the mergers. Then they started changing during the Menke/bankruptcy era, the Republic/Midwest fiasco, and now the Indigo era. They seem to operate more like G4 than NK, never operate most routes more than 6 months and have a very shitty public image.

I think they need a new management team, new strategy and a focus on making Frontier a legitimate alternative to the big 4.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3222
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:46 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
enilria wrote:
*F9 CVG-SAT JAN 0.5>0.1[0] FEB 0.4>0[0] MAR 0.4>0[0] APR 0.4>0[0.3]


In addition to the discontinuation of F9 CVG-SAT nonstop service, I am also not currently seeing any F9 nonstops to ATL, AUS, DFW, JAX, LAX, MSP, LGA, PHL, RDU, and SJC out of CVG in April 2019, even though F9 has already extended its flight schedule through April 29, 2019.

There is likely going to be more demand for WN service out of CVG in Summer 2019 than was the case in the past with F9 significantly cutting back at CVG in 2019, and I think that WN will probably be announcing a few more nonstop routes out of CVG in the 11/15/18 schedule extension with demand for WN service out of CVG expected to be greater than it was in the past.



I just don't know what to think about F9 anymore. During the Potter years, they were profitable, served a niche in the Denver market, had a very loyal following in the cities they flew to. I would compare them to HP before any of the mergers. Then they started changing during the Menke/bankruptcy era, the Republic/Midwest fiasco, and now the Indigo era. They seem to operate more like G4 than NK, never operate most routes more than 6 months and have a very shitty public image.

I think they need a new management team, new strategy and a focus on making Frontier a legitimate alternative to the big 4.

F9's strategy honestly seems to make G4 and NK look like paragons of stability. Think what you want about them, but I don't see G4 or NK pulling and shifting routes and markets as often as F9 seems to.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:52 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

In addition to the discontinuation of F9 CVG-SAT nonstop service, I am also not currently seeing any F9 nonstops to ATL, AUS, DFW, JAX, LAX, MSP, LGA, PHL, RDU, and SJC out of CVG in April 2019, even though F9 has already extended its flight schedule through April 29, 2019.

There is likely going to be more demand for WN service out of CVG in Summer 2019 than was the case in the past with F9 significantly cutting back at CVG in 2019, and I think that WN will probably be announcing a few more nonstop routes out of CVG in the 11/15/18 schedule extension with demand for WN service out of CVG expected to be greater than it was in the past.



I just don't know what to think about F9 anymore. During the Potter years, they were profitable, served a niche in the Denver market, had a very loyal following in the cities they flew to. I would compare them to HP before any of the mergers. Then they started changing during the Menke/bankruptcy era, the Republic/Midwest fiasco, and now the Indigo era. They seem to operate more like G4 than NK, never operate most routes more than 6 months and have a very shitty public image.

I think they need a new management team, new strategy and a focus on making Frontier a legitimate alternative to the big 4.

F9's strategy honestly seems to make G4 and NK look like paragons of stability. Think what you want about them, but I don't see G4 or NK pulling and shifting routes and markets as often as F9 seems to.

I agree with you. I guess my comparison was that most routes they add are less than daily, most of them are 2-4 frequencies per week.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
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enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 10373
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:30 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
Thanks for your hard work, Enilria. Look forward to this every Sunday.

:)
Rdh3e wrote:
That is indeed as you noted a totally unfair comparison. The reason your comparison doesn't work is that UA having such a large presence in IAD transcon likely discourages others from flying the routes, for instance it's probably why AS doesn't fly SAN-IAD.

The comparison is really IAD vs JFK as the supposed long-haul airport of each mega-city. IAD service is vastly inferior and less competitive.
gwrudolph wrote:
I can't imagine how much time/resource they spend setting up stations and routes, then cutting them and/or pulling out?!?!?! Securing space, securing and signing contracts with FBOs, signage/branding, securing crew hotel agreements, etc, etc, etc.

I've had the same thought.
SANFan wrote:
Just another great appreciation for the great OAG threads! These sorts of unexpected sked changes from WN would be, IMO, almost impossible to find otherwise unless they were just stumbled upon.

Thanks
SANFan wrote:
I will say that as far as SAN is concerned, we have a lot more nonstop capacity to BWI than IAD: in peak season, WN, AS & NK operate ~5 dailies to BWI, whereas only UA flies to IAD, 3x daily. Other cx, WN the most recent, have attempted IAD service but quickly dropped it. (And WN dropping SAN routes is rare.)

It has to be noted that SAN is the largest major western market (outside the perimeter) without a nonstop to DCA and who knows if or when that problem will be resolved...

I can only conclude that flyers between SAN and DC much prefer Baltimore -- so long as our choice remains either BWI or IAD. Not a huge surprise.

Yeah SAN is a great example of what I was talking about. Either UA has poisoned the well by dominating IAD, or BWI is just a better market.
tphuang wrote:
Thanks again enilria

:)
tphuang wrote:
I think this is just them going to twice daily for the peak summer season. They do add capacity in the summer time. This is just to improve their schedule on this route, I would imagine. They are certainly willing to loose plenty of money on new routes out of SEA.

I don't doubt it's for peak, but they are under a lot of capacity pressure from Wall Street and that's a lot of ASMs in what on paper is a sketchy ( one where they are not in a dominant position on either end) market.
asuflyer05 wrote:
Edit: Forgot to add my thanks to enilria for putting this together week in and week out. One of the best reads on A.net these days. Thanks again!

:)
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1552
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:21 am

F9 AUS-SJC JAN 0.3>0.0[0] FEB 0.3>0[0] MAR 0.3>0[0] APR 0.3>0[0.3]

Seasonal drop?
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:21 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
enilria wrote:
*F9 CVG-SAT JAN 0.5>0.1[0] FEB 0.4>0[0] MAR 0.4>0[0] APR 0.4>0[0.3]


In addition to the discontinuation of F9 CVG-SAT nonstop service, I am also not currently seeing any F9 nonstops to ATL, AUS, DFW, JAX, LAX, MSP, LGA, PHL, RDU, and SJC out of CVG in April 2019, even though F9 has already extended its flight schedule through April 29, 2019.

There is likely going to be more demand for WN service out of CVG in Summer 2019 than was the case in the past with F9 significantly cutting back at CVG in 2019, and I think that WN will probably be announcing a few more nonstop routes out of CVG in the 11/15/18 schedule extension with demand for WN service out of CVG expected to be greater than it was in the past.



I just don't know what to think about F9 anymore. During the Potter years, they were profitable, served a niche in the Denver market, had a very loyal following in the cities they flew to. I would compare them to HP before any of the mergers. Then they started changing during the Menke/bankruptcy era, the Republic/Midwest fiasco, and now the Indigo era. They seem to operate more like G4 than NK, never operate most routes more than 6 months and have a very shitty public image.

I think they need a new management team, new strategy and a focus on making Frontier a legitimate alternative to the big 4.


If they’re making money, what’s the problem? Does every airline have to fit into a certain mold? Honestly, what’s more questionable, shifting routes frequently or turning over mgmt that’s making money?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8757
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:47 am

FA9295 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
There's not a lot of non-stop capacity on SEA-WAS (looking at 6/3/19):

3x UA SEA-IAD
1x AS SEA-BWI
1x AS SEA-IAD
2x AS SEA-DCA
1x DL SEA-IAD

Maybe there doesn't need to be.

AS doesn't have redeyes in the market - odd, given other eastern markets for AS. DL's sole flight is timed to compete with a UA redeye A320. Maybe the add is a daytime flight?

SEA is arguably the fastest growing airport in the U.S, and the market is currently WAY overserved. Most routes to and from there have always been a bloodbath. And looking at the steady rate that they're economy is improving, and more gate space becomes available at the airport, this will only just continue.


What's the argument SEA-WAS is way overserved? Count the flights SEA-NYC, SEA-CHI, SEA-DFW. Flights between big metros often have high flight counts.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:56 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

In addition to the discontinuation of F9 CVG-SAT nonstop service, I am also not currently seeing any F9 nonstops to ATL, AUS, DFW, JAX, LAX, MSP, LGA, PHL, RDU, and SJC out of CVG in April 2019, even though F9 has already extended its flight schedule through April 29, 2019.

There is likely going to be more demand for WN service out of CVG in Summer 2019 than was the case in the past with F9 significantly cutting back at CVG in 2019, and I think that WN will probably be announcing a few more nonstop routes out of CVG in the 11/15/18 schedule extension with demand for WN service out of CVG expected to be greater than it was in the past.



I just don't know what to think about F9 anymore. During the Potter years, they were profitable, served a niche in the Denver market, had a very loyal following in the cities they flew to. I would compare them to HP before any of the mergers. Then they started changing during the Menke/bankruptcy era, the Republic/Midwest fiasco, and now the Indigo era. They seem to operate more like G4 than NK, never operate most routes more than 6 months and have a very shitty public image.

I think they need a new management team, new strategy and a focus on making Frontier a legitimate alternative to the big 4.


If they’re making money, what’s the problem? Does every airline have to fit into a certain mold? Honestly, what’s more questionable, shifting routes frequently or turning over mgmt that’s making money?

They had a net loss of $18 million for Q2 2018, profit of $20 million in Q1 2018, a loss of $1.8 Billion for all of 2017, a $373 million loss for all of 2016. They've cut $300 million in costs, mostly related to outsourcing almost everything. I'm surprised they haven't tried to outsource flight attendants and pilots. They're not making any money. They're opening routes and cutting them because they're losing money on them. Airlines don't cut profitable routes unless they're intent on going out of business.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:30 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
There's not a lot of non-stop capacity on SEA-WAS (looking at 6/3/19):

3x UA SEA-IAD
1x AS SEA-BWI
1x AS SEA-IAD
2x AS SEA-DCA
1x DL SEA-IAD

Maybe there doesn't need to be.

AS doesn't have redeyes in the market - odd, given other eastern markets for AS. DL's sole flight is timed to compete with a UA redeye A320. Maybe the add is a daytime flight?

SEA is arguably the fastest growing airport in the U.S, and the market is currently WAY overserved. Most routes to and from there have always been a bloodbath. And looking at the steady rate that they're economy is improving, and more gate space becomes available at the airport, this will only just continue.


What's the argument SEA-WAS is way overserved? Count the flights SEA-NYC, SEA-CHI, SEA-DFW. Flights between big metros often have high flight counts.

Most of the markets ex SEA are definitely not over served. SFO, LAX, JFK, ORD, DFW, SAN, LAX, ANC, ATL have a lot of frequencies, but generally have high load factors and at least on DL, generate sufficient enough yields. BNA, OKC, CHS, PHL, BOS, IAH, AUS, IND, etc all are served well, with additional flights being feasible during peak times. SEA's biggest hurdle is gate space and the backups caused by aircraft waiting for gates not really having anywhere to go, so they're often in the way of aircraft trying to taxi for departure.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
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enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 10373
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:39 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:


I just don't know what to think about F9 anymore. During the Potter years, they were profitable, served a niche in the Denver market, had a very loyal following in the cities they flew to. I would compare them to HP before any of the mergers. Then they started changing during the Menke/bankruptcy era, the Republic/Midwest fiasco, and now the Indigo era. They seem to operate more like G4 than NK, never operate most routes more than 6 months and have a very shitty public image.

I think they need a new management team, new strategy and a focus on making Frontier a legitimate alternative to the big 4.


If they’re making money, what’s the problem? Does every airline have to fit into a certain mold? Honestly, what’s more questionable, shifting routes frequently or turning over mgmt that’s making money?

They had a net loss of $18 million for Q2 2018, profit of $20 million in Q1 2018, a loss of $1.8 Billion for all of 2017, a $373 million loss for all of 2016. They've cut $300 million in costs, mostly related to outsourcing almost everything. I'm surprised they haven't tried to outsource flight attendants and pilots. They're not making any money. They're opening routes and cutting them because they're losing money on them. Airlines don't cut profitable routes unless they're intent on going out of business.

I'm not sure their financial transparity is all that great, so I'm not sure the numbers mean that much...but having said that, if they were doing well they would have IPO'd.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3931
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:14 am

enilria wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
If they’re making money, what’s the problem? Does every airline have to fit into a certain mold? Honestly, what’s more questionable, shifting routes frequently or turning over mgmt that’s making money?

They had a net loss of $18 million for Q2 2018, profit of $20 million in Q1 2018, a loss of $1.8 Billion for all of 2017, a $373 million loss for all of 2016. They've cut $300 million in costs, mostly related to outsourcing almost everything. I'm surprised they haven't tried to outsource flight attendants and pilots. They're not making any money. They're opening routes and cutting them because they're losing money on them. Airlines don't cut profitable routes unless they're intent on going out of business.

I'm not sure their financial transparity is all that great, so I'm not sure the numbers mean that much...but having said that, if they were doing well they would have IPO'd.


I think that NK could acquire F9 since an acquisition of F9 by NK would give NK access to markets that aren't currently served by NK such as AUS, CLT, CVG, DSM, IND, MEM, MKE, BNA, OMA, PNS, RDU, STL, SMF, SAT, SAV, and SYR. NK could also inherit additional Airbus A319, A320, A320neo, and A321 planes along with orders for additional Airbus A320neo and Airbus A321neo planes if it merges with F9, and both Spirit and Frontier already operate Airbus A320 family aircraft.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:31 am

jplatts wrote:
enilria wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
They had a net loss of $18 million for Q2 2018, profit of $20 million in Q1 2018, a loss of $1.8 Billion for all of 2017, a $373 million loss for all of 2016. They've cut $300 million in costs, mostly related to outsourcing almost everything. I'm surprised they haven't tried to outsource flight attendants and pilots. They're not making any money. They're opening routes and cutting them because they're losing money on them. Airlines don't cut profitable routes unless they're intent on going out of business.

I'm not sure their financial transparity is all that great, so I'm not sure the numbers mean that much...but having said that, if they were doing well they would have IPO'd.


I think that NK could acquire F9 since an acquisition of F9 by NK would give NK access to markets that aren't currently served by NK such as AUS, CLT, CVG, DSM, IND, MEM, MKE, BNA, OMA, PNS, RDU, STL, SMF, SAT, SAV, and SYR. NK could also inherit additional Airbus A319, A320, A320neo, and A321 planes along with orders for additional Airbus A320neo and Airbus A321neo planes if it merges with F9, and both Spirit and Frontier already operate Airbus A320 family aircraft.

I'm sure NK would dump some of or most of the routes as it looks like they're not much into the operating a route less than daily. NK could definitely make a good go of those routes from the west coast via LAS and the NE thru DTW or CLE.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:32 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:


I just don't know what to think about F9 anymore. During the Potter years, they were profitable, served a niche in the Denver market, had a very loyal following in the cities they flew to. I would compare them to HP before any of the mergers. Then they started changing during the Menke/bankruptcy era, the Republic/Midwest fiasco, and now the Indigo era. They seem to operate more like G4 than NK, never operate most routes more than 6 months and have a very shitty public image.

I think they need a new management team, new strategy and a focus on making Frontier a legitimate alternative to the big 4.


If they’re making money, what’s the problem? Does every airline have to fit into a certain mold? Honestly, what’s more questionable, shifting routes frequently or turning over mgmt that’s making money?

They had a net loss of $18 million for Q2 2018, profit of $20 million in Q1 2018, a loss of $1.8 Billion for all of 2017, a $373 million loss for all of 2016. They've cut $300 million in costs, mostly related to outsourcing almost everything. I'm surprised they haven't tried to outsource flight attendants and pilots. They're not making any money. They're opening routes and cutting them because they're losing money on them. Airlines don't cut profitable routes unless they're intent on going out of business.


To be clear, Frontier lost nearly $2 BILLION in 2017?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:53 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

If they’re making money, what’s the problem? Does every airline have to fit into a certain mold? Honestly, what’s more questionable, shifting routes frequently or turning over mgmt that’s making money?

They had a net loss of $18 million for Q2 2018, profit of $20 million in Q1 2018, a loss of $1.8 Billion for all of 2017, a $373 million loss for all of 2016. They've cut $300 million in costs, mostly related to outsourcing almost everything. I'm surprised they haven't tried to outsource flight attendants and pilots. They're not making any money. They're opening routes and cutting them because they're losing money on them. Airlines don't cut profitable routes unless they're intent on going out of business.


To be clear, Frontier lost nearly $2 BILLION in 2017?

According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax benefit and goodwill, but yes.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:02 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
They had a net loss of $18 million for Q2 2018, profit of $20 million in Q1 2018, a loss of $1.8 Billion for all of 2017, a $373 million loss for all of 2016. They've cut $300 million in costs, mostly related to outsourcing almost everything. I'm surprised they haven't tried to outsource flight attendants and pilots. They're not making any money. They're opening routes and cutting them because they're losing money on them. Airlines don't cut profitable routes unless they're intent on going out of business.


To be clear, Frontier lost nearly $2 BILLION in 2017?

According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax hit, but yes.


So i think we can sorta set that aside unless you think their parent company would be cool continuing with a $2B per year loss? The reality is that they are making a go of it. Why is that a problem? If people are too stupid to research the carrier they’re flying, that’s on them.

I just booked a trip to Seattle. I chose a good carrier. I chose a good hotel. I chose a good rental car company. I did it by reading reviews and using personal experience. However, I know there are a lot of motels (for example) that I probably wouldn’t stay at, probably are just scraping by, and probably have poor reviews - but somehow I get through my day without wishing they’d close, bad mouthing them, or asking them why they can’t just be like everyone else - because for some, they meet a need that no one else does, and for some people they actually are the enabler of them even traveling.

Frontier is Frontier. I’m at a loss as to why people are still shocked by their network planning or why they are bothered by it so much?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
jfidler
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 3:32 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:10 am

I think DL's IAD-SEA could be to feed trans-pac flights out of SEA. DL has a lot of capacity out of SEA, and they need to fill it. Since IAD has limited direct flights to Asia (2xPEK, 1xICN, 2xNRT,1xDEL), so maybe DL is trying to get those customers onto their direct flights like to KIX, PVG, and various cities in Hawaii?
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:31 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
SEA is arguably the fastest growing airport in the U.S, and the market is currently WAY overserved. Most routes to and from there have always been a bloodbath. And looking at the steady rate that they're economy is improving, and more gate space becomes available at the airport, this will only just continue.


What's the argument SEA-WAS is way overserved? Count the flights SEA-NYC, SEA-CHI, SEA-DFW. Flights between big metros often have high flight counts.

Most of the markets ex SEA are definitely not over served. SFO, LAX, JFK, ORD, DFW, SAN, LAX, ANC, ATL have a lot of frequencies, but generally have high load factors and at least on DL, generate sufficient enough yields. BNA, OKC, CHS, PHL, BOS, IAH, AUS, IND, etc all are served well, with additional flights being feasible during peak times. SEA's biggest hurdle is gate space and the backups caused by aircraft waiting for gates not really having anywhere to go, so they're often in the way of aircraft trying to taxi for departure.

My point was that it seems like AS and DL are adding as many flights as they can to SEA in order to utilize as much gate space that is there for them. With that being said though, on routes such as SEA-NYC, SEA-WAS and SEA-BOS, the routes have lots of daily flights because they're trying to decrease their competition's yield.

I think one of the major factors that gave AS and DL a "wake-up call" (if you will), was when JetBlue added MINT service on SEA-JFK/BOS. JetBlue's product is arguably better than their competition's products, which is very likely hurting AS and DL yields on transcon routes to/from SEA.

Sure, they probably have high load factors, and I didn't say that all SEA routes are overserved, but the vast majority of the transcon routes to/from SEA are put on in order to keep up with their competition (and potentially decreasing their yields). But that's just my take on it, and the competition from AS against DL at SEA is continuously getting more and more interesting to watch overtime. Can't wait to see what each of them will add on next to their route networks...
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3222
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:38 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

To be clear, Frontier lost nearly $2 BILLION in 2017?

According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax hit, but yes.


So i think we can sorta set that aside unless you think their parent company would be cool continuing with a $2B per year loss? The reality is that they are making a go of it. Why is that a problem? If people are too stupid to research the carrier they’re flying, that’s on them.

I just booked a trip to Seattle. I chose a good carrier. I chose a good hotel. I chose a good rental car company. I did it by reading reviews and using personal experience. However, I know there are a lot of motels (for example) that I probably wouldn’t stay at, probably are just scraping by, and probably have poor reviews - but somehow I get through my day without wishing they’d close, bad mouthing them, or asking them why they can’t just be like everyone else - because for some, they meet a need that no one else does, and for some people they actually are the enabler of them even traveling.

Frontier is Frontier. I’m at a loss as to why people are still shocked by their network planning or why they are bothered by it so much?

I'm shocked that you're shocked that people are shocked by this. In the absence of quarterly financials all we can do is speculate, but if they have indeed found a profitable, sustainable model with all this network churn it's likely they would have gone public by now. But hey, if it's indeed the case that all this turnover is a successful model for them, then I'm all for it. Having said that, in the absence of clear financials, this level of churn is typically not indicative of success. I do wish the best for them though.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:42 am

flyguy89 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax hit, but yes.


So i think we can sorta set that aside unless you think their parent company would be cool continuing with a $2B per year loss? The reality is that they are making a go of it. Why is that a problem? If people are too stupid to research the carrier they’re flying, that’s on them.

I just booked a trip to Seattle. I chose a good carrier. I chose a good hotel. I chose a good rental car company. I did it by reading reviews and using personal experience. However, I know there are a lot of motels (for example) that I probably wouldn’t stay at, probably are just scraping by, and probably have poor reviews - but somehow I get through my day without wishing they’d close, bad mouthing them, or asking them why they can’t just be like everyone else - because for some, they meet a need that no one else does, and for some people they actually are the enabler of them even traveling.

Frontier is Frontier. I’m at a loss as to why people are still shocked by their network planning or why they are bothered by it so much?

I'm shocked that you're shocked that people are shocked by this. In the absence of quarterly financials all we can do is speculate, but if they have indeed found a profitable, sustainable model with all this network churn it's likely they would have gone public by now. But hey, if it's indeed the case that all this turnover is a successful model for them, then I'm all for it. Having said that, in the absence of clear financials, this level of churn is typically not indicative of success. I do wish the best for them though.


Haha. I’ve been out shocked. :-)
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:51 am

FA9295 wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

What's the argument SEA-WAS is way overserved? Count the flights SEA-NYC, SEA-CHI, SEA-DFW. Flights between big metros often have high flight counts.

Most of the markets ex SEA are definitely not over served. SFO, LAX, JFK, ORD, DFW, SAN, LAX, ANC, ATL have a lot of frequencies, but generally have high load factors and at least on DL, generate sufficient enough yields. BNA, OKC, CHS, PHL, BOS, IAH, AUS, IND, etc all are served well, with additional flights being feasible during peak times. SEA's biggest hurdle is gate space and the backups caused by aircraft waiting for gates not really having anywhere to go, so they're often in the way of aircraft trying to taxi for departure.

My point was that it seems like AS and DL are adding as many flights as they can to SEA in order to utilize as much gate space that is there for them. With that being said though, on routes such as SEA-NYC, SEA-WAS and SEA-BOS, the routes have lots of daily flights because they're trying to decrease their competition's yield.

I think one of the major factors that gave AS and DL a "wake-up call" (if you will), was when JetBlue added MINT service on SEA-JFK/BOS. JetBlue's product is arguably better than their competition's products, which is very likely hurting AS and DL yields on transcon routes to/from SEA.

Sure, they probably have high load factors, and I didn't say that all SEA routes are overserved, but the vast majority of the transcon routes to/from SEA are put on in order to keep up with their competition (and potentially decreasing their yields). But that's just my take on it, and the competition from AS against DL at SEA is continuously getting more and more interesting to watch overtime. Can't wait to see what each of them will add on next to their route networks...



I think the company that hurts the most with MINT to JFK and BOS is AS since they can only compete on price. They've tried to use the "hometown airline" moniker to garner goodwill, but the financials don't support that that is working.
DL is still able to bring $1,500+ fares OW with Delta One to JFK and there was a rumor that D1 was coming to BOS flights, but it is looking like Q3 2019 at the earliest.

The yields are down, but most everyone flying into SEA is making at least a buck.

AS will be able to utilize half a dozen new gates next year while DL will have to wait until the new FIS is open, which opens S up for WN, B6, F9 and UA to move to while DL gets A and B. I'm excited for the future as well
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
ckfred
Posts: 5188
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:06 am

I have flown a number of times between ORD and TPA on AA. Most of the time, AA has been at 3 daily R/T, although there was a time when AA cut the route to 2 daily R/T. At the same time, I've been on a lot of flights on the route in which gate agents had to offer some decent amounts of vouchers, because of overbooking.

It seems to me that the fourth R/T has been long overdue. Just in talking to people I know, Tampa is as popular of a destination, both for tourism and for business, as Orlando. Yet, it seems that ORD-MCO has more flights, and higher fares. I actually know people who plan vacations at Disney or Universal, but fly into TPA because of the lower fares, as well as cheaper rental cars.
 
F9LASDEN
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:19 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
They had a net loss of $18 million for Q2 2018, profit of $20 million in Q1 2018, a loss of $1.8 Billion for all of 2017, a $373 million loss for all of 2016. They've cut $300 million in costs, mostly related to outsourcing almost everything. I'm surprised they haven't tried to outsource flight attendants and pilots. They're not making any money. They're opening routes and cutting them because they're losing money on them. Airlines don't cut profitable routes unless they're intent on going out of business.


To be clear, Frontier lost nearly $2 BILLION in 2017?

According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax benefit and goodwill, but yes.


Did anyone realize that that link is not discussing the financial results for Frontier Airlines, an airline based on Denver, CO, but for Frontier Communications, a telecommunications company based in Norwalk, CT? For what it’s worth, Frontier Airlines is a privately held company, and the last time they released public financial results was in 2009, 6 years before they even transitioned to ULCC.

Frontier Communciations’ website: frontier.com

Frontier Airlines’ website: flyfrontier.con
Spirit of the West...A Whole Different Animal...Low Fares Done Right
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:26 am

F9LASDEN wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

To be clear, Frontier lost nearly $2 BILLION in 2017?

According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax benefit and goodwill, but yes.


Did anyone realize that that link is not discussing the financial results for Frontier Airlines, an airline based on Denver, CO, but for Frontier Communications, a telecommunications company based in Norwalk, CT? For what it’s worth, Frontier Airlines is a privately held company, and the last time they released public financial results was in 2009, 6 years before they even transitioned to ULCC.

Frontier Communciations’ website: frontier.com

Frontier Airlines’ website: flyfrontier.con


Lol
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am

F9LASDEN wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

To be clear, Frontier lost nearly $2 BILLION in 2017?

According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax benefit and goodwill, but yes.


Did anyone realize that that link is not discussing the financial results for Frontier Airlines, an airline based on Denver, CO, but for Frontier Communications, a telecommunications company based in Norwalk, CT? For what it’s worth, Frontier Airlines is a privately held company, and the last time they released public financial results was in 2009, 6 years before they even transitioned to ULCC.

Frontier Communciations’ website: frontier.com

Frontier Airlines’ website: flyfrontier.con


According to Wiki (prob more reliable than Frontier Communications), they had a net income in 2017 of $169m. FWIW.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
F9LASDEN
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:11 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
F9LASDEN wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax benefit and goodwill, but yes.


Did anyone realize that that link is not discussing the financial results for Frontier Airlines, an airline based on Denver, CO, but for Frontier Communications, a telecommunications company based in Norwalk, CT? For what it’s worth, Frontier Airlines is a privately held company, and the last time they released public financial results was in 2009, 6 years before they even transitioned to ULCC.

Frontier Communciations’ website: frontier.com

Frontier Airlines’ website: flyfrontier.con


According to Wiki (prob more reliable than Frontier Communications), they had a net income in 2017 of $169m. FWIW.


I followed the citation for that on Wikipedia, which brought me to the Frontier's BTS page, which does include more recent data than 2009, so thank you for pointing that out.

According to said BTS page, in 2017 Frontier earned an operating profit of $282 million, and a net income of $181 million.

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/carriers.asp?pn=1
Spirit of the West...A Whole Different Animal...Low Fares Done Right
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:22 am

F9LASDEN wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

To be clear, Frontier lost nearly $2 BILLION in 2017?

According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax benefit and goodwill, but yes.


Did anyone realize that that link is not discussing the financial results for Frontier Airlines, an airline based on Denver, CO, but for Frontier Communications, a telecommunications company based in Norwalk, CT? For what it’s worth, Frontier Airlines is a privately held company, and the last time they released public financial results was in 2009, 6 years before they even transitioned to ULCC.

Frontier Communciations’ website: frontier.com

Frontier Airlines’ website: flyfrontier.con



Yes, after reading your comment. I feel like a dunce right now.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:25 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
F9LASDEN wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax benefit and goodwill, but yes.


Did anyone realize that that link is not discussing the financial results for Frontier Airlines, an airline based on Denver, CO, but for Frontier Communications, a telecommunications company based in Norwalk, CT? For what it’s worth, Frontier Airlines is a privately held company, and the last time they released public financial results was in 2009, 6 years before they even transitioned to ULCC.

Frontier Communciations’ website: frontier.com

Frontier Airlines’ website: flyfrontier.con


Lol



I feel like a fool now. At least it's cleared up now. I was thinking to myself earlier that those were some ridiculously wide swings in their quarterly results, glad I'm not an investor lol
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:29 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
F9LASDEN wrote:

Did anyone realize that that link is not discussing the financial results for Frontier Airlines, an airline based on Denver, CO, but for Frontier Communications, a telecommunications company based in Norwalk, CT? For what it’s worth, Frontier Airlines is a privately held company, and the last time they released public financial results was in 2009, 6 years before they even transitioned to ULCC.

Frontier Communciations’ website: frontier.com

Frontier Airlines’ website: flyfrontier.con


Lol



I feel like a fool now. At least it's cleared up now. I was thinking to myself earlier that those were some ridiculously wide swings in their quarterly results, glad I'm not an investor lol


I’ve went to the Frontier Comm site a number of times over the years - it’s just confusing having two decent sized companies with similar names.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
FlyingElvii
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:31 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
F9 is notorious for abandoning routes. Many of them probably shouldn't have been started. It's not helping then win over pax who are already leery of using them.

To be fair, DL has thrown a bunch of RJ’s up against them, AND G4, especially in CVG. Three times CRJ to EWR, 1xSAT, AUS, MCI, Etc. They even threw 3x CRJ’s to BWI against WN. They added a ton of seats in Northwest Florida, to counter G4 into VPS, etc.

I think they decided the uLC’s were gaining too much market share in CVG, and DPJ is not enough to keep the big accounts on board after the dehubbing, now that the economy is on the rise again, finally.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:31 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
F9 is notorious for abandoning routes. Many of them probably shouldn't have been started. It's not helping then win over pax who are already leery of using them.

To be fair, DL has thrown a bunch of RJ’s up against them, AND G4, especially in CVG. Three times CRJ to EWR, 1xSAT, AUS, MCI, Etc. They even threw 3x CRJ’s to BWI against WN. They added a ton of seats in Northwest Florida, to counter G4 into VPS, etc.

I think they decided the uLC’s were gaining too much market share in CVG, and DPJ is not enough to keep the big accounts on board after the dehubbing, now that the economy is on the rise again, finally.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:32 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
F9 is notorious for abandoning routes. Many of them probably shouldn't have been started. It's not helping then win over pax who are already leery of using them.

To be fair, DL has thrown a bunch of RJ’s up against them, AND G4, especially in CVG. Three times CRJ to EWR, 1xSAT, AUS, MCI, Etc. They even threw 3x CRJ’s to BWI against WN. They added a ton of seats in Northwest Florida, to counter G4 into VPS, etc.

I think they decided the uLC’s were gaining too much market share in CVG, and DPJ is not enough to keep the big accounts on board after the dehubbing, now that the economy is on the rise again, finally.
 
F9LASDEN
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:23 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Lol



I feel like a fool now. At least it's cleared up now. I was thinking to myself earlier that those were some ridiculously wide swings in their quarterly results, glad I'm not an investor lol


I’ve went to the Frontier Comm site a number of times over the years - it’s just confusing having two decent sized companies with similar names.


I’ve accidentally ended up on that site a number of times myself. It certainly doesn’t help that that’s the first link that comes up when you google “frontier airlines financial performance”.
Spirit of the West...A Whole Different Animal...Low Fares Done Right
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:38 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
F9 is notorious for abandoning routes. Many of them probably shouldn't have been started. It's not helping then win over pax who are already leery of using them.

To be fair, DL has thrown a bunch of RJ’s up against them, AND G4, especially in CVG. Three times CRJ to EWR, 1xSAT, AUS, MCI, Etc. They even threw 3x CRJ’s to BWI against WN. They added a ton of seats in Northwest Florida, to counter G4 into VPS, etc.

I think they decided the uLC’s were gaining too much market share in CVG, and DPJ is not enough to keep the big accounts on board after the dehubbing, now that the economy is on the rise again, finally.

Yeah, DL has been aggressively expanding in CVG. It looks like they are finally trying to go after G4/F9/WN. DL's seats were up something like 12% this past summer YOY. G4 and WN seem to be holding their own, but F9 has cut back by about 30% for the winter. However, F9 seems to cut most of the routes at CVG every winter, only to resume most of them plus add new ones in the spring. Hopefully this is only temporary.
 
TYSflyer
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:59 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
enilria wrote:
I'm not sure their financial transparity is all that great, so I'm not sure the numbers mean that much...but having said that, if they were doing well they would have IPO'd.


I think that NK could acquire F9 since an acquisition of F9 by NK would give NK access to markets that aren't currently served by NK such as AUS, CLT, CVG, DSM, IND, MEM, MKE, BNA, OMA, PNS, RDU, STL, SMF, SAT, SAV, and SYR. NK could also inherit additional Airbus A319, A320, A320neo, and A321 planes along with orders for additional Airbus A320neo and Airbus A321neo planes if it merges with F9, and both Spirit and Frontier already operate Airbus A320 family aircraft.

I'm sure NK would dump some of or most of the routes as it looks like they're not much into the operating a route less than daily. NK could definitely make a good go of those routes from the west coast via LAS and the NE thru DTW or CLE.

NK recently opened both AVL and GSO and all of the routes out of those 2 stations are less than daily. I’m sure you are right to an extent that if NK ever acquires F9 that a bunch of routes would be dropped, but it appears from these recent adds that they are not opposed to stuff less than daily.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5688
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:27 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
I think the company that hurts the most with MINT to JFK and BOS is AS since they can only compete on price. They've tried to use the "hometown airline" moniker to garner goodwill, but the financials don't support that that is working.
DL is still able to bring $1,500+ fares OW with Delta One to JFK and there was a rumor that D1 was coming to BOS flights, but it is looking like Q3 2019 at the earliest.

The yields are down, but most everyone flying into SEA is making at least a buck.

I picked a day a little over a month on JFK-SEA
https://www.google.com/flights#flt=JFK. ... 1;t:f;tt:o
pretty tough market. There is at least one D1 flight there that's going for $549 O/W and nothing over $1000.

Just to give everything a little context, I put the numbers from Q2 here for several transcon routes out of SEA. Normally for legacies, a good non-premium transcon route will get over $300 Avg fare with 85+% LF. A good premium transcon route will get over $350 Avg fare with 85+% LF.
CityPair Dist CarrierBoard AvgNSFare% NS SeatPerFlight LF Yield PRASM
SEAJFK 2422 AA 030578 243.38 95.99% 160.1 86.84% 211.35 0.0873
SEAJFK 2422 AS 034621 239.30 95.19% 176.2 92.68% 221.78 0.0916
SEAJFK 2422 B6 041671 251.08 99.53% 158.1 89.63% 225.03 0.0929
SEAJFK 2422 DL 119441 303.02 97.65% 180.7 90.44% 274.04 0.1131
SEABOS 2496 AS 085232 254.00 98.79% 175.6 91.39% 232.13 0.0930
SEABOS 2496 B6 059459 242.51 99.41% 159.0 83.85% 203.34 0.0815
SEABOS 2496 DL 050444 247.07 92.02% 161.7 88.86% 219.55 0.0880
SEADCA 2329 AS 053500 391.40 96.27% 159.0 93.73% 366.85 0.1575
SEAIAD 2306 AS 028604 262.25 93.98% 173.6 90.52% 237.38 0.1029
SEAIAD 2306 DL 006020 273.91 87.99% 160.0 81.79% 224.04 0.0972
SEAIAD 2306 UA 081564 306.26 95.60% 165.6 93.84% 287.39 0.1246
SEAATL 2182 AS 055330 277.69 97.88% 177.1 86.33% 239.72 0.1099
SEAATL 2182 DL 211418 372.68 92.01% 193.1 91.08% 339.42 0.1556

Keep in mind a year ago on JFK-SEA, AS had $261 Avg fare with 91% LF and DL had $316 Avg fare with 93% LF. So both have experienced a drop since then. And remember, DL actually converted several flights to D1 service, so the drop in yield is really bad. The biggest drop is by AA, who I think won't be around in a year.

BOS-SEA is a huge bloodbath. DL won't put D1 on here, because the market simply can't support it. A year agom both DL and AS had average fare that ws close to $300 and now both are around $250.

On the subject, of IAD-SEA, I actually don't think the numbers are bad. The LF is a little lower for DL, but the fares are pretty good for a new route that's a red-eye. If they add a day-time flight, I would imagine yields will be acceptable. At least much better than BOS-SEA.

In general for AS, I think the vast majority of SEA transcon routes a profitable. They have pretty strong hold of SEA point of sale still.

enilria wrote:
I don't doubt it's for peak, but they are under a lot of capacity pressure from Wall Street and that's a lot of ASMs in what on paper is a sketchy ( one where they are not in a dominant position on either end) market.

Now I've changed my tune a little bit after seeing their yields on IAD-SEA. They have some routes that they do a lot worse where they added capacity to.

Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
They had a net loss of $18 million for Q2 2018, profit of $20 million in Q1 2018, a loss of $1.8 Billion for all of 2017, a $373 million loss for all of 2016. They've cut $300 million in costs, mostly related to outsourcing almost everything. I'm surprised they haven't tried to outsource flight attendants and pilots. They're not making any money. They're opening routes and cutting them because they're losing money on them. Airlines don't cut profitable routes unless they're intent on going out of business.


To be clear, Frontier lost nearly $2 BILLION in 2017?

According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax benefit and goodwill, but yes.

That's complete craziness. I don't see how they can last much longer with this kind of financial performance.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:04 pm

tphuang wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
I think the company that hurts the most with MINT to JFK and BOS is AS since they can only compete on price. They've tried to use the "hometown airline" moniker to garner goodwill, but the financials don't support that that is working.
DL is still able to bring $1,500+ fares OW with Delta One to JFK and there was a rumor that D1 was coming to BOS flights, but it is looking like Q3 2019 at the earliest.

The yields are down, but most everyone flying into SEA is making at least a buck.

I picked a day a little over a month on JFK-SEA
https://www.google.com/flights#flt=JFK. ... 1;t:f;tt:o
pretty tough market. There is at least one D1 flight there that's going for $549 O/W and nothing over $1000.

Just to give everything a little context, I put the numbers from Q2 here for several transcon routes out of SEA. Normally for legacies, a good non-premium transcon route will get over $300 Avg fare with 85+% LF. A good premium transcon route will get over $350 Avg fare with 85+% LF.
CityPair Dist CarrierBoard AvgNSFare% NS SeatPerFlight LF Yield PRASM
SEAJFK 2422 AA 030578 243.38 95.99% 160.1 86.84% 211.35 0.0873
SEAJFK 2422 AS 034621 239.30 95.19% 176.2 92.68% 221.78 0.0916
SEAJFK 2422 B6 041671 251.08 99.53% 158.1 89.63% 225.03 0.0929
SEAJFK 2422 DL 119441 303.02 97.65% 180.7 90.44% 274.04 0.1131
SEABOS 2496 AS 085232 254.00 98.79% 175.6 91.39% 232.13 0.0930
SEABOS 2496 B6 059459 242.51 99.41% 159.0 83.85% 203.34 0.0815
SEABOS 2496 DL 050444 247.07 92.02% 161.7 88.86% 219.55 0.0880
SEADCA 2329 AS 053500 391.40 96.27% 159.0 93.73% 366.85 0.1575
SEAIAD 2306 AS 028604 262.25 93.98% 173.6 90.52% 237.38 0.1029
SEAIAD 2306 DL 006020 273.91 87.99% 160.0 81.79% 224.04 0.0972
SEAIAD 2306 UA 081564 306.26 95.60% 165.6 93.84% 287.39 0.1246
SEAATL 2182 AS 055330 277.69 97.88% 177.1 86.33% 239.72 0.1099
SEAATL 2182 DL 211418 372.68 92.01% 193.1 91.08% 339.42 0.1556

Keep in mind a year ago on JFK-SEA, AS had $261 Avg fare with 91% LF and DL had $316 Avg fare with 93% LF. So both have experienced a drop since then. And remember, DL actually converted several flights to D1 service, so the drop in yield is really bad. The biggest drop is by AA, who I think won't be around in a year.

BOS-SEA is a huge bloodbath. DL won't put D1 on here, because the market simply can't support it. A year agom both DL and AS had average fare that ws close to $300 and now both are around $250.

On the subject, of IAD-SEA, I actually don't think the numbers are bad. The LF is a little lower for DL, but the fares are pretty good for a new route that's a red-eye. If they add a day-time flight, I would imagine yields will be acceptable. At least much better than BOS-SEA.

In general for AS, I think the vast majority of SEA transcon routes a profitable. They have pretty strong hold of SEA point of sale still.

enilria wrote:
I don't doubt it's for peak, but they are under a lot of capacity pressure from Wall Street and that's a lot of ASMs in what on paper is a sketchy ( one where they are not in a dominant position on either end) market.

Now I've changed my tune a little bit after seeing their yields on IAD-SEA. They have some routes that they do a lot worse where they added capacity to.

Sancho99504 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

To be clear, Frontier lost nearly $2 BILLION in 2017?

According to this:
http://investor.frontier.com/news-relea ... ull-year-0


They blamed it on a one time tax benefit and goodwill, but yes.

That's complete craziness. I don't see how they can last much longer with this kind of financial performance.


Please note: That wasn’t Frontier Airlines’ financials, that was Frontier Communications.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3432
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:09 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
F9 is notorious for abandoning routes. Many of them probably shouldn't have been started. It's not helping then win over pax who are already leery of using them.

To be fair, DL has thrown a bunch of RJ’s up against them, AND G4, especially in CVG. Three times CRJ to EWR, 1xSAT, AUS, MCI, Etc. They even threw 3x CRJ’s to BWI against WN. They added a ton of seats in Northwest Florida, to counter G4 into VPS, etc.

I think they decided the uLC’s were gaining too much market share in CVG, and DPJ is not enough to keep the big accounts on board after the dehubbing, now that the economy is on the rise again, finally.


Thrown up CRJs? DL flew to EWR, MCI and BWI long before WN or F9 entered the CVG market. Please, they've kept flying what they've been flying for years.
From my cold, dead hands
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1786
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:13 pm

tphuang wrote:
That's complete craziness. I don't see how they can last much longer with this kind of financial performance.
That's not Frontier Airlines. That's Frontier Communications as mentioned above.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:12 pm

tphuang wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
I think the company that hurts the most with MINT to JFK and BOS is AS since they can only compete on price. They've tried to use the "hometown airline" moniker to garner goodwill, but the financials don't support that that is working.
DL is still able to bring $1,500+ fares OW with Delta One to JFK and there was a rumor that D1 was coming to BOS flights, but it is looking like Q3 2019 at the earliest.

The yields are down, but most everyone flying into SEA is making at least a buck.

I picked a day a little over a month on JFK-SEA
https://www.google.com/flights#flt=JFK. ... 1;t:f;tt:o
pretty tough market. There is at least one D1 flight there that's going for $549 O/W and nothing over $1000.

Just to give everything a little context, I put the numbers from Q2 here for several transcon routes out of SEA. Normally for legacies, a good non-premium transcon route will get over $300 Avg fare with 85+% LF. A good premium transcon route will get over $350 Avg fare with 85+% LF.
CityPair Dist CarrierBoard AvgNSFare% NS SeatPerFlight LF Yield PRASM
SEAJFK 2422 AA 030578 243.38 95.99% 160.1 86.84% 211.35 0.0873
SEAJFK 2422 AS 034621 239.30 95.19% 176.2 92.68% 221.78 0.0916
SEAJFK 2422 B6 041671 251.08 99.53% 158.1 89.63% 225.03 0.0929
SEAJFK 2422 DL 119441 303.02 97.65% 180.7 90.44% 274.04 0.1131
SEABOS 2496 AS 085232 254.00 98.79% 175.6 91.39% 232.13 0.0930
SEABOS 2496 B6 059459 242.51 99.41% 159.0 83.85% 203.34 0.0815
SEABOS 2496 DL 050444 247.07 92.02% 161.7 88.86% 219.55 0.0880
SEADCA 2329 AS 053500 391.40 96.27% 159.0 93.73% 366.85 0.1575
SEAIAD 2306 AS 028604 262.25 93.98% 173.6 90.52% 237.38 0.1029
SEAIAD 2306 DL 006020 273.91 87.99% 160.0 81.79% 224.04 0.0972
SEAIAD 2306 UA 081564 306.26 95.60% 165.6 93.84% 287.39 0.1246
SEAATL 2182 AS 055330 277.69 97.88% 177.1 86.33% 239.72 0.1099
SEAATL 2182 DL 211418 372.68 92.01% 193.1 91.08% 339.42 0.1556

Keep in mind a year ago on JFK-SEA, AS had $261 Avg fare with 91% LF and DL had $316 Avg fare with 93% LF. So both have experienced a drop since then. And remember, DL actually converted several flights to D1 service, so the drop in yield is really bad. The biggest drop is by AA, who I think won't be around in a year.

BOS-SEA is a huge bloodbath. DL won't put D1 on here, because the market simply can't support it. A year agom both DL and AS had average fare that ws close to $300 and now both are around $250.

On the subject, of IAD-SEA, I actually don't think the numbers are bad. The LF is a little lower for DL, but the fares are pretty good for a new route that's a red-eye. If they add a day-time flight, I would imagine yields will be acceptable. At least much better than BOS-SEA.

In general for AS, I think the vast majority of SEA transcon routes a profitable. They have pretty strong hold of SEA point of sale still.


Like I said, almost everyone flying to/from SEA is making at least a buck. I question whether Xiamen or Hainan are making money here.
What I meant about Alaska was that DL and B6 are able to get higher average premium fares due to MINT and D1 over AS's basic first. Even with DL's basic first, they're able to command a higher average fare ex SEA. It seems that more than 50% of AS first are upgraded, while 100% of MINT is paid vs about 70% of D1 and first is paid.

AA is in an interesting position. They cut JFK to 1x daily over the winter, but seem to do well in the summer with 2x daily plus 3-5 additional flights per week.

On other transcons ex-SEA, DL gets a higher paid F % than AS. I think both airline's fill y+ mostly with upgrades, not sure who gets the win here.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
crescent
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:09 am

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:04 pm

tphuang wrote:


BOS-SEA is a huge bloodbath. DL won't put D1 on here, because the market simply can't support it. A year ago, both DL and AS had average fare that ws close to $300 and now both are around $250.

On the subject, of IAD-SEA, I actually don't think the numbers are bad. The LF is a little lower for DL, but the fares are pretty good for a new route that's a red-eye. If they add a day-time flight, I would imagine yields will be acceptable. At least much better than BOS-SEA.


I remember when there were zero nonstops BOS-SEA. I think AS only started the route in 1998. Now there are seven on some days.

DL load factor on SEA-->IAD is lower because none of the Asian flights feed that well into it. I presume DL deprioritizes the IAD flight for a daytime slot in SEA. Also, they had a hokey schedule going west to Asia. The flights to ICN & NRT were timed well around noon for an IAD (and other city) arrival at 10am, but PVG PEK HKG were not, leaving at 4pm. I am guessing this had to do with how long to leave the aircraft on the ground in the further destinations in Asia?
 
redwingspilot
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:08 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
Two biased observations b/c they affect my travels:

Looks like AA is pulling out of Vail entirely during the summer. That sucks - they had been running at least once a day thru DFW for the past decade or more. Now it’s UAX via DEN or drive.

The AA EGE cuts are only April and May. It's a still bookable nonstop in summer.


The route was year round I believe the last two years and would be downgauged to the CR7 during the low season (Fall and Spring). But now it's gone back to the seasonal suspension during the Spring as of right now.
 
SRQflyer
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: OAG Changes 10/28/2018:F9 Drops GSP-LAS/MCO,SAT-CVG/RDU,PIT-MCO/SAN,AUS-SJC,BNA-TTN,MCI-RDU;UA Adds FAI-SFO

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:25 pm

More capacity for SRQ on UA...

UA EWR-SRQ MAR 2>3[1.0]

I'm surprised at 3x daily to EWR on top of 2x to ORD. I wonder if this stays mainline for mixes some regional in? Glad to see more growth out of SRQ, and hope to see it continue!

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