• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 64
 
juliuswong
Moderator
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:06 am

The weather over the South East Asia at least at Malaysia Singapore Indonesia and Brunei have been bad over the past weeks. Just last night I took a flight Kuching to KL, the B737NG shook violently over the sea. The light load didn't help either. Relieved when we landed at KL in one piece.

RIP for all passengers and crew. The pictures are eerie reminiscent of Indonesia AirAsia QZ8501. Prayers and thoughts with the family and close ones.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
Antarius
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:06 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Same flight yesterday to today

Image


Pitots? That just looks really erratic.


I dont think so, because that early in the flight the pilots wouldnt be jacking with the throttle that way no matter what the airspeed indicators say.

Seems more like a hydraulic or engine issue. But this is just my speculation.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:06 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
KICT wrote:
kanban wrote:
"Aviation consultant Gerry Soejatman told the BBC the MAX 8 had been experiencing problems since it was introduced, including problems maintaining a level flight"

When properly flown, aircraft tend to remain aloft.
Shut 'em down.


Remember the A380 that nearly fell out of the sky? Engine had an uncontained failure that was literally inches from killing everyone on that plane. How do you know that this MAX didn’t suffer something similar? These power plants are being pushed pretty hard.

Look - I get it - it’s LionAir. Let’s just not assume we know what happened at this early stage.


Which do think is more likely. Boeing is incompetent and built a bad aircraft or Lion Air is a dumpster fire of an operation and this the result.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:07 am

a320fan wrote:
Ouch sad to loose a max8 so soon after introduction. Here’s hoping there’s at least some survivors.


They should never have been operating any plane for paying passengers in the first place.

Very sad event and the overall context could not be more scary. Bone chilling operation. Not joke... RIP to victims.
 
downdata
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:38 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:07 am

Oh. Not those damn pitot covers again...

They should make a electrical / hydraulic driven cover for the pitot
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2667
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:08 am

Raw data from FR24 on this flight, if I'm reading this correctly this aircraft hit a vertical speed of over -30,000ft/minute. Absolutely out of control
.
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/flig ... eed-graph/
 
log0008
Posts: 480
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:10 am

edu2703 wrote:
Image


Last data point is a 425ft and almost 33000fpm
 
jcancel
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:35 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:10 am

What I don't understand is how the Indonesian government didn't know that AirAsia Indonesia was flying that route without permission...

The delays, lack of compensation, etc are fair game for avoiding an airline, IMO

gia777 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
gia777 wrote:
I am from Indonesia and Lion Air - Air Asia - both are on my BANNED list.

My understanding is that the AirAsua Indonesia company didn't do any willful misconduct regarding flight 8501, and in the Mayday documentary a commentator says it was a shame since the airline was well run.


Air Asia = they flew to Singapore without proper authorization. enough said. If they can do that, let alone...the safety
Air Asia = flights delay, cancellation are very frequent without any compensation.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:11 am

One things for sure: if this somehow does turn out to be an issue with the MAX and not with LionAir as you’d think... there is going to be a massive panic for Boeing to put out
 
User avatar
CLTRampRat
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:42 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:11 am

Ah damn, that was a brand new airplane.
Condolences to the passengers and crew.

I haven’t heard a lot about Lion Air but from the little I have heard (including this forum), this doesn’t shock me. Unfortunately this is what happens when problems are seemingly ignored.
 
D L X
Posts: 12483
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:12 am

log0008 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Same flight yesterday to today

Image


Pitots? That just looks really erratic.


Highly, highly unlikely they levelled of at 5000ft and struggled along for almost 8 mins, it seems very likely that this aircraft had something very wrong with it.

A pitot problem would affect the ADS-B data used by FR24, right? So we can’t assume the plane leveled off at 5000, or even fluctuated in alt or speed.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:12 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
KICT wrote:
When properly flown, aircraft tend to remain aloft.
Shut 'em down.


Remember the A380 that nearly fell out of the sky? Engine had an uncontained failure that was literally inches from killing everyone on that plane. How do you know that this MAX didn’t suffer something similar? These power plants are being pushed pretty hard.

Look - I get it - it’s LionAir. Let’s just not assume we know what happened at this early stage.


Which do think is more likely. Boeing is incompetent and built a bad aircraft or Lion Air is a dumpster fire of an operation and this the result.


What does that question have to do with this crash? Am I supposed to just go “It’s LionAir so it must not be a mechanical issue”? Wtf. The easiest thing in the world would be to do what some are doing and cast blame on LionAir without a friggin clue of what happened yet, and as a Seattle native with family and friends currently working at Boeing the hardest thing to do is to question whether it was a mechanical issue. I’m trying to keep an open mind. But you do you, boo.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
CLTRampRat
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:42 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:12 am

log0008 wrote:
edu2703 wrote:
Image


Last data point is a 425ft and almost 33000fpm


Common folk call that a nosedive.
 
User avatar
afterburner
Posts: 1359
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:13 am

KPDX wrote:
Very sad news. How in the hell has this airline not been shut down by the government? Atrocious.

On what ground? This airline passed local and international safety audits, including IOSA (IATA Operational Safety Audit).
 
D L X
Posts: 12483
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:13 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
KICT wrote:
When properly flown, aircraft tend to remain aloft.
Shut 'em down.


Remember the A380 that nearly fell out of the sky? Engine had an uncontained failure that was literally inches from killing everyone on that plane. How do you know that this MAX didn’t suffer something similar? These power plants are being pushed pretty hard.

Look - I get it - it’s LionAir. Let’s just not assume we know what happened at this early stage.


Which do think is more likely. Boeing is incompetent and built a bad aircraft or Lion Air is a dumpster fire of an operation and this the result.

We immediately blamed ValuJet and poor maintenance before we learned that it was caused by hazardous cargo not properly stored. Food for thought.
 
User avatar
Veigar
Posts: 467
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:14 am

The sudden and abrupt dive that the plane took reminds of that incident with the 747SP eons ago. Anyone happen to remember what specifically caused it to actually go into the nose dive? ... Can't remember as of this forum post.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:14 am

hayzel777 wrote:
If there is no evidence of Gerry Soejatman's claim, Boeing needs to go and sue him for every dime he has.


Agreed. It is beyond appalling that someone who claims to be an aviation professional would claim such a thing. And that would be a slap in the face to the FAA as well since the certified the 737Max.
 
AirbusA322
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:38 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:15 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I’ve seen a few comments on it already but I just wanted to ask the question outright since I don’t know a ton about Asian carriers.

I’ve heard of lionair but I don’t know much about them. ULCC? Thoughts on their safety in general? If they are buying new planes that usually is good sign in my mind that they aren’t just buying old ones. Just some background from some of you that have flown them or know them better than me. Thanks.


New or Old Planes are irrelevant. Its the check and training systems behind flight crew which is the backbone of any safe carrier.

They have no standards. End of story.

They need to hire Aussie/Brit/US Pilots that can train the operation to required standards. They don't invest.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:16 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Remember the A380 that nearly fell out of the sky? Engine had an uncontained failure that was literally inches from killing everyone on that plane. How do you know that this MAX didn’t suffer something similar? These power plants are being pushed pretty hard.

Look - I get it - it’s LionAir. Let’s just not assume we know what happened at this early stage.


Which do think is more likely. Boeing is incompetent and built a bad aircraft or Lion Air is a dumpster fire of an operation and this the result.


What does that question have to do with this crash? Am I supposed to just go “It’s LionAir so it must not be a mechanical issue”? Wtf. The easiest thing in the world would be to do what some are doing and cast blame on LionAir without a friggin clue of what happened yet, and as a Seattle native with family and friends currently working at Boeing the hardest thing to do is to question whether it was a mechanical issue. I’m trying to keep an open mind. But you do you, boo.


It might not be pilot error but who knows what kind of circus they have running the maintenance department at Lion Air. If you misplaced one bolt everything should still hold together...
 
SkyGrunt
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:58 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:18 am

The deviations to me indicate a manual flight while trying to deal with an emergency. Complete speculation but it almost looks like something overwhelmed the crew in the end. Smoke / fire?

Also I agree with others. Thinking of those passengers and crew. The plane is inconsequential and only interest is in finding out what happened to prevent it in the future.

Sent from my BBD100-2 using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Posts: 1969
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:18 am

I read the headline on Reuters and when I saw the number of passengers I knew it was a max.
(came here for more in-depth details of course)
A side effect of cramming more seats on narrowbodies, now every incident is going to have horrific death tolls.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:19 am

afterburner wrote:
KPDX wrote:
Very sad news. How in the hell has this airline not been shut down by the government? Atrocious.

On what ground? This airline passed local and international safety audits, including IOSA (IATA Operational Safety Audit).


It wasn’t all that long ago (relatively speaking) that crashes were much more common. Five crashes in five years for USAir back in the 90’s - remember that? AA in Rockaway. AA in Little Rock. AA in Jamaica. They weren’t shut down. I’ve never been to Indonesia and at this stage in life doubt I ever will so I won’t presume to know anything about their culture or aviation industry, but they might be where the US was 20 years ago. They’ll get there.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
CrimsonNL
Posts: 2092
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:34 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:20 am

hayzel777 wrote:
If there is no evidence of Gerry Soejatman's claim, Boeing needs to go and sue him for every dime he has.


Boeing's legal staff would be busy if they are suing everyone who's critical of their products. Have you read the Airliners forums lately?

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2891
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:20 am

Veigar wrote:
The sudden and abrupt dive that the plane took reminds of that incident with the 747SP eons ago. Anyone happen to remember what specifically caused it to actually go into the nose dive? ... Can't remember as of this forum post.


I actually suggested that earlier in this thread...there, on a 747SR (shorter range one designed for Japan's high-density domestic routes), the vertical stabilizer broke off, the result of a maintenance error following a faulty repair not conforming to Boeing's repair manual. Boeing estimated that the repair would last 10,000 cycles at most, and they were close; 12,318 cycles happened between repair after a tail strike and crash. CI611 also crashed because of an improper repair years before. Here, the aft pressure bulkhead burst, ripping off the vertical stabilizer. This 747 managed to stay flying for 32 minutes before it finally crashed.
Last edited by aemoreira1981 on Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:21 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Which do think is more likely. Boeing is incompetent and built a bad aircraft or Lion Air is a dumpster fire of an operation and this the result.


What does that question have to do with this crash? Am I supposed to just go “It’s LionAir so it must not be a mechanical issue”? Wtf. The easiest thing in the world would be to do what some are doing and cast blame on LionAir without a friggin clue of what happened yet, and as a Seattle native with family and friends currently working at Boeing the hardest thing to do is to question whether it was a mechanical issue. I’m trying to keep an open mind. But you do you, boo.


It might not be pilot error but who knows what kind of circus they have running the maintenance department at Lion Air. If you misplaced one bolt everything should still hold together...


Interesting. Maybe it was a hammer left in the tail by another circus? Perish the thought.....
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
gia777
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:21 am

Let's just wait until official investigation came out. I know it's Lion Air but again until the black box found we will never know what truly happens.
Boeing 737-MAX8 is still brand new, I am sure Boeing is closely monitoring the accident because if there is a design flaw, it will be a complete disaster for Boeing.
But again.... all recent accidents have been caused by Pilot error sadly, not the plane. Pilot training and CRM very2 crucial!
Cheers,

GIA777 :coffee:
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:23 am

CrimsonNL wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
If there is no evidence of Gerry Soejatman's claim, Boeing needs to go and sue him for every dime he has.


Boeing's legal staff would be busy if they are suing everyone who's critical of their products. Have you read the Airliners forums lately?

Martijn


Yes because seat width and lav size has what to do with anything? Ffs.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
hayzel777
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:18 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:23 am

CrimsonNL wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
If there is no evidence of Gerry Soejatman's claim, Boeing needs to go and sue him for every dime he has.


Boeing's legal staff would be busy if they are suing everyone who's critical of their products. Have you read the Airliners forums lately?

Martijn

Making false claims that spread panic amongst the public about your fleet type and criticizing the product are two very different things.
 
User avatar
Veigar
Posts: 467
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:25 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
The sudden and abrupt dive that the plane took reminds of that incident with the 747SP eons ago. Anyone happen to remember what specifically caused it to actually go into the nose dive? ... Can't remember as of this forum post.


I actually suggested that earlier in this thread...there, on a 747SR (shorter range one designed for Japan's high-density domestic routes), the vertical stabilizer broke off, the result of a maintenance error following a faulty repair not conforming to Boeing's repair manual. Boeing estimated that the repair would last 10,000 cycles at most, and they were close; 12,318 cycles happened between repair after a tail strike and crash. CI611 also crashed because of an improper repair years before. Here, the aft pressure bulkhead burst, ripping off the vertical stabilizer. This 747 managed to stay flying for 32 minutes before it finally crashed.



I was referring to China Airlines flight 006. The plane didn't have anything break off of it, but the 30,000 foot plunge the 747SP made was a result of pilot error, according to research. Same hypothesis I have for this incident. Pilot error. Just so unfortunate that it had to have had fatalities....
 
EChid
Posts: 546
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:27 am

gia777 wrote:
But again.... all recent accidents have been caused by Pilot error sadly, not the plane. Pilot training and CRM very2 crucial!


Pilot error or improper maintenance. I would guess that the most recent accident caused by a genuine engineering failure be...BA38 or QF32? They are few and far between, thankfully.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:28 am

hayzel777 wrote:
CrimsonNL wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
If there is no evidence of Gerry Soejatman's claim, Boeing needs to go and sue him for every dime he has.


Boeing's legal staff would be busy if they are suing everyone who's critical of their products. Have you read the Airliners forums lately?

Martijn

Making false claims that spread panic amongst the public about your fleet type and criticizing the product are two very different things.


Sadly, even in a disaster like this, a few posters just can’t help themselves.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 9729
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:30 am

Veigar wrote:
I was referring to China Airlines flight 006. The plane didn't have anything break off of it, but the 30,000 foot plunge the 747SP made was a result of pilot error, according to research. Same hypothesis I have for this incident. Pilot error. Just so unfortunate that it had to have had fatalities....


Wild hypotheses are pretty uncalled for at this time - especially as related to a different era/type/environment, etc. All we know at this time is we have an unusual flight path followed by what seems to be rapid descent into the sea, and a crew that asked for a return and knew they had a problem on their hands. That's pretty much it until more is known. Media and the public find their way to a.nut - so enough with the crazy speculation.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
YellowJ
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:59 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:30 am

gia777 wrote:
I am sure Boeing is closely monitoring the accident because if there is a design flaw, it will be a complete disaster for Boeing.
But again.... all recent accidents have been caused by Pilot error sadly, not the plane. Pilot training and CRM very2 crucial!


Design flaw when the MAX has been flying for over a year and a half and the 737 fuselage for well over 50 years? Doubtful.
 
neutronstar73
Posts: 792
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:57 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:33 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
log0008 wrote:
There is something very wrong with the altitude on this flight based on FR24 they never got above 5300ft, every other aircraft departing in the same way is up around 18000ft by the point it diapered - more to this than pilot error imo


If the pilot requested to return to the airport (mentioned above), it must has some issues regarding the plane.


Or something was going on aboard the plane that required a return.
 
adriaticus
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:29 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:33 am

YellowJ wrote:
Not to take away the focus from this sad situation; but is this a record from delivery to crash for any airline and/or aircraft made?

Nah. If I recall correctly, an A340-600 was destroyed on ground by the crew receiving it brand new from Airbus at Toulouse. It was some middle eastern airline. They received the AC and slammed it against a building or something before its very first pushback. I’m sure a fellow a.nutter will shield details.
A300/18/19/20/21/30/32/88 An24 ATR42/72 B721/2 B732/3/G/8/MAX B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 B788/9 Concorde DC8/9/10 E45/70/75/90/95 IL62/86 MD10-30/11 SA340/2000 TU134/154
 
iAmAlaska49
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:06 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:34 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
The sudden and abrupt dive that the plane took reminds of that incident with the 747SP eons ago. Anyone happen to remember what specifically caused it to actually go into the nose dive? ... Can't remember as of this forum post.


I actually suggested that earlier in this thread...there, on a 747SR (shorter range one designed for Japan's high-density domestic routes), the vertical stabilizer broke off, the result of a maintenance error following a faulty repair not conforming to Boeing's repair manual. Boeing estimated that the repair would last 10,000 cycles at most, and they were close; 12,318 cycles happened between repair after a tail strike and crash. CI611 also crashed because of an improper repair years before. Here, the aft pressure bulkhead burst, ripping off the vertical stabilizer. This 747 managed to stay flying for 32 minutes before it finally crashed.

I think they were referring to CI006 that took a nose dive over the Pacific back in 1985. The aircraft had suffered an engine failure at 41,000ft and dove 30,000ft before recovering.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:35 am

YellowJ wrote:
gia777 wrote:
I am sure Boeing is closely monitoring the accident because if there is a design flaw, it will be a complete disaster for Boeing.
But again.... all recent accidents have been caused by Pilot error sadly, not the plane. Pilot training and CRM very2 crucial!


Design flaw when the MAX has been flying for over a year and a half and the 737 fuselage for well over 50 years? Doubtful.


Well if you include software and power plants in the package, I’m not sure how we can rule out a design flaw? Obviously the crew didn’t just roll it over into the sea unknowingly - they reported a problem. What that problem was remains to be seen. Fwiw, the rudder issue took years to discover. And a few crashes.
Last edited by PlanesNTrains on Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Posts: 1969
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:36 am

adriaticus wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
Not to take away the focus from this sad situation; but is this a record from delivery to crash for any airline and/or aircraft made?

Nah. If I recall correctly, an A340-600 was destroyed on ground by the crew receiving it brand new from Airbus at Toulouse. It was some middle eastern airline. They received the AC and slammed it against a building or something before its very first pushback. I’m sure a fellow a.nutter will shield details.


That was the etihad a340 already mentioned.
 
Antarius
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:37 am

YellowJ wrote:
gia777 wrote:
I am sure Boeing is closely monitoring the accident because if there is a design flaw, it will be a complete disaster for Boeing.
But again.... all recent accidents have been caused by Pilot error sadly, not the plane. Pilot training and CRM very2 crucial!


Design flaw when the MAX has been flying for over a year and a half and the 737 fuselage for well over 50 years? Doubtful.


True. But it could be a manufacturing flaw and in that case, it's the same issue for Boeing.

Luckily we have thorough investigations.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
asuflyer
Topic Author
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am

The pilot was an Indian national. He completed his pilot training in California in 2009. He earned his 737 type rating at the EK Flight Academy in 2010 and worked for Lion Air since 2011.
 
User avatar
CrimsonNL
Posts: 2092
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:34 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
CrimsonNL wrote:

Boeing's legal staff would be busy if they are suing everyone who's critical of their products. Have you read the Airliners forums lately?

Martijn

Making false claims that spread panic amongst the public about your fleet type and criticizing the product are two very different things.


Sadly, even in a disaster like this, a few posters just can’t help themselves.


You're right, I can't help myself when reading something like that. An aircraft manufacturer "suing someone for every dime he has" after reading a weird quote of two lines in a developing news story.
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8136
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:42 am

We're going to have to recover the "black boxes" and also look at weather conditions, too. The Java Sea is notorious for violent thunderstorms, and how the Lion Air flight crew reacted to possible thunderstorm conditions may have something to do with the crash.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:42 am

log0008 wrote:
There is something very wrong with the altitude on this flight based on FR24 they never got above 5300ft, every other aircraft departing in the same way is up around 18000ft by the point it diapered - more to this than pilot error imo

Control issues, or fighting the fis?
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:44 am

Antarius wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
gia777 wrote:
I am sure Boeing is closely monitoring the accident because if there is a design flaw, it will be a complete disaster for Boeing.
But again.... all recent accidents have been caused by Pilot error sadly, not the plane. Pilot training and CRM very2 crucial!


Design flaw when the MAX has been flying for over a year and a half and the 737 fuselage for well over 50 years? Doubtful.


True. But it could be a manufacturing flaw and in that case, it's the same issue for Boeing.

Luckily we have thorough investigations.


Surely Boeing will conduct their own investigation. Pride gets in the way of an investigation in some countries. For example Egypt Air never did accept the NTSB's findings for flight 990. They just couldn't face the reality that it was pilot suicide.
Last edited by TTailedTiger on Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:45 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Same flight yesterday to today

Image


Pitots? That just looks really erratic.

No stall, urgent RTB request. Control issues?
 
User avatar
Flyingdevil737
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:45 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
again....they always crash the new plane


Agreed......

(Why did it HAVE TO BE A 737MAX?!)
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the very first Fokker airplane built in the world. The Dutch call it the mother Fokker.
 
kraz911
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 5:21 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:47 am

Hello all,
Looking at the footage from the tug boat, it looks like the plane went in hard, with bits and appeared to be a shredded slide/raft. Condolences to the family and friends of the people lost. One thing that got me fried was somebody released a partial pax list on twitter, before relatives and friends were notified. I find that despicable that and the news buzzards looking for permission to use footage and info on their networks. I’m sure Boeing has a team in the air pointing toward Jakarta to find out why one of their work horse aircraft went in. The black boxes are going to be key to figuring this one out no matter what Scary Mary says in the morning...
 
User avatar
afterburner
Posts: 1359
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:47 am

Flyingdevil737 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
again....they always crash the new plane


Agreed......

(Why did it HAVE TO BE A 737MAX?!)

So is it more acceptable it isn't 737Max? Disgusting!
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:47 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Same flight yesterday to today

Image


Pitots? That just looks really erratic.

No stall, urgent RTB request. Control issues?


I shouldn’t even be speculating as I’m nothing more than an a.net junior armchair investigator. The best I can offer is recalling past incidents and making an educated guess. Obviously something was amiss from the get-go, but what that was I’m not sure.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
benjjk
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:29 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:48 am

asuflyer wrote:
The pilot was an Indian national. He completed his pilot training in California in 2009. He earned his 737 type rating at the EK Flight Academy in 2010 and worked for Lion Air since 2011.


The 737 needs two pilots, was this the captain or first officer? Also where did you get this information?
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 64

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos