Strato2
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:49 am

Flyingdevil737 wrote:
(Why did it HAVE TO BE A 737MAX?!)


People are dead and you are worried about an aircraft? :crazy:
 
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cougar15
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:50 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
The sudden and abrupt dive that the plane took reminds of that incident with the 747SP eons ago. Anyone happen to remember what specifically caused it to actually go into the nose dive? ... Can't remember as of this forum post.


I actually suggested that earlier in this thread...there, on a 747SR (shorter range one designed for Japan's high-density domestic routes), the vertical stabilizer broke off, the result of a maintenance error following a faulty repair not conforming to Boeing's repair manual. Boeing estimated that the repair would last 10,000 cycles at most, and they were close; 12,318 cycles happened between repair after a tail strike and crash. CI611 also crashed because of an improper repair years before. Here, the aft pressure bulkhead burst, ripping off the vertical stabilizer. This 747 managed to stay flying for 32 minutes before it finally crashed.


I think he is reffering to the Dynasty (China airlines) 747SP that took a serious nosedive off the Californian Coast and had an awful lot of bits missing when it did an emergency landing at Oakland (Dynasty 006).


ABC news Australia is also reporting, as per Indonesian officials, pilot indicated control issues & requested a return. RIP to those onboard.
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Acey
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:52 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Which do think is more likely. Boeing is incompetent and built a bad aircraft or Lion Air is a dumpster fire of an operation and this the result.

We have no idea at this point... I don't know how anybody could say either way.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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September11
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:53 am

kraz911 wrote:
Hello all,
Looking at the footage from the tug boat, it looks like the plane went in hard, with bits and appeared to be a shredded slide/raft. Condolences to the family and friends of the people lost. One thing that got me fried was somebody released a partial pax list on twitter, before relatives and friends were notified. I find that despicable that and the news buzzards looking for permission to use footage and info on their networks. I’m sure Boeing has a team in the air pointing toward Jakarta to find out why one of their work horse aircraft went in. The black boxes are going to be key to figuring this one out no matter what Scary Mary says in the morning...


Thanks for this good info
Airliners.net of the Future
 
VTCIE
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:55 am

R.I.P. to all on board. This is a massive setback for Lion Air as it was looking to improve its honestly disastrous safety record.

With the exception of the LaMia flight, no aviation disaster in recent times has had any survivors, and unfortunately this is likely to be the case.
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
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Veigar
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:57 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
I was referring to China Airlines flight 006. The plane didn't have anything break off of it, but the 30,000 foot plunge the 747SP made was a result of pilot error, according to research. Same hypothesis I have for this incident. Pilot error. Just so unfortunate that it had to have had fatalities....


Wild hypotheses are pretty uncalled for at this time - especially as related to a different era/type/environment, etc. All we know at this time is we have an unusual flight path followed by what seems to be rapid descent into the sea, and a crew that asked for a return and knew they had a problem on their hands. That's pretty much it until more is known. Media and the public find their way to a.nut - so enough with the crazy speculation.


I don't think it's really a "wild hypotheses" given the airline, accident history, and common practices within their system, my guy. I initially speculated with a few friends that this could be a rudder issue that the 737s used to have but then realized that the last rudder related 737 incident was back when USAir was a thing.
 
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SQ789
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:05 am

The identified pilots name are Captain Bhavye Suneja and FO Harvino, the captain has 6,000 flying hours and the FO has 5,000 hours flying. I'm also surprised that the captain is Indian not Indonesian!
https://makassar.terkini.id/ini-profil- ... kan-jatuh/
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Btblue
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:07 am

LUV737 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Flight path is interesting climbs to about 5400ft and bounces around between 5400ft and 4900ft and then dips down to 4500, climbs up to 5500ft then suddenly dips down and contact is lost.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... /#1e5ff318



Pitot covers missed on walk around?


Thought the same thing. Pilots definitely preoccupied with some type of crisis on board.

The Birgenair 757 that had one of three tubes covered reached a similar altitude then eventually stalled, entered a spin and inverted. This Lion Air 737 appears to have nose dived at a greater speed.

It would have been daylight though so the pilots would possibly have had some visual markers compared to the Berginair crew who were flying dark. Both climbing out over water though.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birgenair_Flight_301

Terrible loss of life, whatever the reason for the crash. Sincere condolences to all involved, truly heartbreaking.
 
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BayAreaLen
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:08 am

I am an American who lives most of the year in Denpasar. Although I fly Airasia when I need to get around SE Asia and not Lion, I can tell you that every Indonesian friend of mine always advises me never to fly Lion if I can avoid it. It is true that there safety record is horrendous, but of course as an aviation enthusiast, Boeing in particular, I've always wanted to fly Lion, especially with their new 737MAX. (Airasia is cheaper for the routes I fly on.) Anyhow, here are some facts I know about flying around the Indonesian archipelago.

Nearly every flight I've taken in that area has been met with sudden, abrupt and strong thunderstorms. Rough air (although I hate that euphemism for turbulence) is extremely common in the area and almost to be expected when flying the region. I've experienced a lightening strike on short final to DPS once with what felt like a moment of weightlessness as the plane suddenly dropped but then stabilized (on an Airasia A320CEO.) No big deal as you all know, and smooth landing followed. Weather however can not be ruled out here by any means, and will likely be a huge focus in the investigation. Conditions go from calm to "uh oh" very quickly in Indonesian weather over the seas between the islands. Also, I've noticed quite often for pilots on Lion or Batik to look quite young and I've heard, but don't take this as accusation or fact, as I'm not claiming anyone at fault for anything, that Indonesia has very corrupt ways of getting through a particular school or training faster for those who pay off the "system." Essentially, money talks, and thus people are promoted, not always based on performance and merit. That is a common theme in Indonesia in many sectors, not just aviation, that I've picked up on from living there for 2 years now.

For the more knowledgeable folks out there, could this have been pitot tubes covered accidentally and missed on pre-flight?

Lastly, I am truly sorry for the lives potentially lost and the families of those potentially lost. Indonesia has been through too much lately with earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, and now yet another Lion crash of a brand new aircraft. I'm truly sorry to my Indonesian brothers and sisters for this terrible incident.
 
log0008
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:08 am

SQ789 wrote:
The identified pilots name are Captain Bhavye Suneja and FO Harvino, the captain has 6,000 flying hours and the FO has 5,000 hours flying. I'm also surprised that the captain is Indian not Indonesian!
https://makassar.terkini.id/ini-profil- ... kan-jatuh/


Not surprising at all, expats especially from the subcontinent make up significant ranks at all Asian airlines
 
LAXLHR
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:14 am

I REFUSE to get on Lion Air, with their 18 year old pilots. These young Asian pilots fly planes like they are racing cars...and Lion Air is full of high schoolers.. Its insaaaaane what is happening over at that airline. I warn everyone to steer clear of them.

I flew out of CGK earlier this year and you are pretty much over the water within a couple of minutes.

VERY VERY SAD!!! We can all disagree about many things on this site, but we all share one thing in common and thats our absolute love of commercial aviation. The joy the wonder of it all.... We all get on these planes all over the world, some of us like cabs...and well its just sad.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
YYJTurk
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:18 am

RetroRoo wrote:
A little baffled at some people above who seem to be sadder about a 737Max8 being destroyed than the people who were inside it...


That's exactly what I was thinking... So sad indeed.
 
EChid
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:19 am

VTCIE wrote:
With the exception of the LaMia flight, no aviation disaster in recent times has had any survivors, and unfortunately this is likely to be the case.

I think that that's a pretty dramatic interpretation of things and also a cyclical argument. We only ever call it a disaster if there is a loss of life, so by definition, you can't have a disaster that doesn't have a loss of life. So, implying that 'no aviation disaster in recent times has had any survivors' is a silly statement and an irrelevant form of measure. Many, many, recent aviation incidents have resulted in either no or very limited loss of life, which is a miracle considering the physics of flight. Off the top of my head, the recent crash in Mexico, the Air Niugini crash, the Pegesis crash, the Asiana incident at SFO, AF at YYZ, etc. etc. as examples. And that's just from memory.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
salttee
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:20 am

CrimsonNL wrote:
kanban wrote:
never heard of this problem or do we just have a troll looking for 30 seconds of notoriety???


I haven't heard of these problems either, but I can assure you Mister Soejatman is not a troll.

Martijn
He was the source of a great deal of misinformation and diversion in the MH370 thread. But of course some people liked that.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:25 am

salttee wrote:
CrimsonNL wrote:
kanban wrote:
never heard of this problem or do we just have a troll looking for 30 seconds of notoriety???


I haven't heard of these problems either, but I can assure you Mister Soejatman is not a troll.

Martijn
He was the source of a great deal of misinformation and diversion in the MH370 thread. But of course some people liked that.


What was his screen name?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
ajsljet45
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:27 am

Article states “pilot made a request to return to the airport”

https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-tro ... e-on-board
 
YYJTurk
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:27 am

afterburner wrote:
Flyingdevil737 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
again....they always crash the new plane


Agreed......

(Why did it HAVE TO BE A 737MAX?!)

So is it more acceptable it isn't 737Max? Disgusting!


Both sickening comments. Shame on you!
 
spacecadet
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:30 am

cougar15 wrote:
I think he is reffering to the Dynasty (China airlines) 747SP that took a serious nosedive off the Californian Coast and had an awful lot of bits missing when it did an emergency landing at Oakland (Dynasty 006).


The pilots in that accident lost situational awareness when flying through clouds. They didn't trust their artificial horizons and didn't fly the correct procedures for high altitude 3 engine operation. However, the instigating incident in that accident was the loss of an engine at high altitude, which the crew did not react to properly. That was certainly not the case in a 737 flying at 5,000 feet.

It's possible there was a loss of situational awareness here for some reason, however to suggest a relation between these two accidents is a major stretch at this point.

The fact that the airplane was apparently flying at 5,000 feet at greater than 300 knots for some period of time is strange to me. That they also reportedly complained of "control problems" is also very odd in a new aircraft, especially when it seems like they were maintaining 5,000 feet reasonably well (the couple hundred feet difference on flightaware is basically statistical noise; it's never 100% accurate).
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
salttee
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:31 am

Veigar wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
I was referring to China Airlines flight 006. The plane didn't have anything break off of it, but the 30,000 foot plunge the 747SP made was a result of pilot error, according to research. Same hypothesis I have for this incident. Pilot error. Just so unfortunate that it had to have had fatalities....
One engine failed and the PF didn't notice so the autopilot tried to maintain altitude until it stalled.

That aircraft is now sitting here: 32°32'37.54"N 116°57'56.64"W
 
salttee
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:33 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
salttee wrote:
CrimsonNL wrote:

I haven't heard of these problems either, but I can assure you Mister Soejatman is not a troll.

Martijn
He was the source of a great deal of misinformation and diversion in the MH370 thread. But of course some people liked that.


What was his screen name?
Mandala499
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:36 am

salttee wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
salttee wrote:
He was the source of a great deal of misinformation and diversion in the MH370 thread. But of course some people liked that.


What was his screen name?
Mandala499


Hmmm.... I guess I missed that part but I got sick of the posturing in that thread and seldom went back.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
gia777
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:37 am

Latest News Update:

Jakarta- Basarnas is aggressively evacuating the fall of the Lion Air JT 610 flight from Jakarta to Pangkalpinang. It has been found that parts of the body allegedly were victims of the unlucky aircraft.

From the photos sent by Basarnas on Monday (10/29/2018), it appears that Basarnas has discovered the debris of the Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft. Also seen parts of the body that have been separated from the victim's body.

The body part is inserted into a black bag. In addition to the alleged victim's body parts, Basarnas has evacuated the debris of the Lion Air JT 610 aircraft.

The plane departed from Soekarno-Hatta Airport at 06.10 WIB and was supposed to land at Depati Amir Airport in Pangkal Pinang at 07.10 WIB. NTSC said, the new Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft that joined Lion Air in 2018 carried 189 passengers.

The head of the NTSC Soerjanto Tjahjono said the plane carried 189 people. "178 adults, 1 child, 2 babies, 2 pilots, and 6 cabin crew," said Soerjanto at a press conference at Basarnas and NTSC, Jakarta, Monday (10/29).
Cheers,

GIA777 :coffee:
 
salttee
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:42 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I missed that part but I got sick of the posturing in that thread and seldom went back.

There was a major effort to keep things confusing, to devote energy to every crackpot theory or huckster that came along and especially to cast doubt on the Inmarsat data once that became known.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:43 am

This is an awful news to wake up to. RIP to all passengers and crew on board. Prayers for families and closed ones.

The photos is a reminiscent of QZ8501. Hopefully they can find the black box quick enough since the wreckage is located in shallow water.

That being said, the weather at South East Asia has been horrendous over the past few week. Last night I did KCH-KUL, moment after taking off heading to South China Sea, the B737NG shook violently (I presume any aircraft would be the same too), the seat belt sign didn't go off after 45mins after taking off. 20 mins before landing the shaking returned. Pilot has to put down the aircraft hard, slamming down the runaway with a loud thud.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
BestWestern
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:45 am

KPDX wrote:
Very sad news. How in the hell has this airline not been shut down by the government? Atrocious.



They were recently taken off the European no fly lists.

My only Lion air flight was cancelled. No email or anything from the airline.

I never flew malindo Malaysia (part of the same group) after one of my Uber drivers was a co-pilot for them. He needed the pocket money
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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SQ789
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:49 am

juliuswong wrote:
This is an awful news to wake up to. RIP to all passengers and crew on board. Prayers for families and closed ones.

The photos is a reminiscent of QZ8501. Hopefully they can find the black box quick enough since the wreckage is located in shallow water.

That being said, the weather at South East Asia has been horrendous over the past few week. Last night I did KCH-KUL, moment after taking off heading to South China Sea, the B737NG shook violently (I presume any aircraft would be the same too), the seat belt sign didn't go off after 45mins after taking off. 20 mins before landing the shaking returned. Pilot has to put down the aircraft hard, slamming down the runaway with a loud thud.

All passengers are presumed to have died according to the spokesperson. If everyone died, I think it's the time that Lion Air should go bankrupt, that's the reason. I haven't fly with this airline for 5 years already and now I am continued to do so and suggest everyone to never fly this airline. Their safety record (even before the crash) are amongst the worst. I hope other airline in Indonesia could do better than Lion does, last year a more poor safety record for being delayed are another thing.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:01 am

So sorry for the loss of life in this accident. That is the sad thing.

We will of course have to figure out the cause, but at this point there are many, many potential things that could have brought this airplane down. While speculating is fine, jumping to conclusions is not ("it must have been ..."). It could be:

* a mechanical issue
* preparation or storage problem (like pitot tube covers or insects)
* a cargo problem (center of gravity or fire)
* pilot disorientation (although if they were flying in the morning light then that is perhaps harder to see)
* something "normal" like weather or engine or other malfunction that then gets mishandled into a serious problem
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:02 am

Can we wait to see what the cause was before we call for bankruptcies and closures? Sure, it could definitely be Lion Air's fault, but you guys have no clue what happened yet so speculate all you want, but hold off on placing blame until you have facts. It's borderline disrespectful.
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juliuswong
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:03 am

SQ789 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
This is an awful news to wake up to. RIP to all passengers and crew on board. Prayers for families and closed ones.

The photos is a reminiscent of QZ8501. Hopefully they can find the black box quick enough since the wreckage is located in shallow water.

That being said, the weather at South East Asia has been horrendous over the past few week. Last night I did KCH-KUL, moment after taking off heading to South China Sea, the B737NG shook violently (I presume any aircraft would be the same too), the seat belt sign didn't go off after 45mins after taking off. 20 mins before landing the shaking returned. Pilot has to put down the aircraft hard, slamming down the runaway with a loud thud.

All passengers are presumed to have died according to the spokesperson. If everyone died, I think it's the time that Lion Air should go bankrupt, that's the reason. I haven't fly with this airline for 5 years already and now I am continued to do so and suggest everyone to never fly this airline. Their safety record (even before the crash) are amongst the worst. I hope other airline in Indonesia could do better than Lion does, last year a more poor safety record for being delayed are another thing.

The issue is they passed all necessary IOSA and IATA safety check. Thus, if Lion Air is indeed really dangerous, they won't have been granted the certification which I understand must be done periodically/ annually. What I was made understand after they crashed few aircraft they hired quite a number international safety advisers to oversee their operation. Not forgetting, EU also removed them from the list of banned/ blacklisted airline.

Personally I wouldn't want to see Lion Air going bankrupt as there are thousands of employees under their payroll, they also fly to far flung remote areas in Indonesia which other airlines tend to ignore or has no/few flights at all. They are basically providing accessibility to these areas hence generating economic activities to local folks. I am not sure if GA, QZ, SJ, QG and IN can stack up their capacity fast enough to cover the capacity loss if Lion Air Group goes under since they have approximately 45% of market share. Also, they have ordered tons of new Airbus and Boeing, which may dent both OEM balance sheet and = financial lessor for their current fleet would not be very pleased with sudden 305 orphaned aircraft.

As much as I sympathised with the departed, we have to think rationally, not emotionally (not saying you are, don't get me wrong). Adam Air case was different as they were a much smaller outfit compared to Lion Air Group..
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rbavfan
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:04 am

YellowJ wrote:
Not to take away the focus from this sad situation; but is this a record from delivery to crash for any airline and/or aircraft made?


China Air 747 took a swim off Hong Kong less than a year old as well.
 
salttee
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:09 am

rbavfan wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
Not to take away the focus from this sad situation; but is this a record from delivery to crash for any airline and/or aircraft made?


China Air 747 took a swim off Hong Kong less than a year old as well.

This has been discussed already up-thread.
 
jcancel
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:14 am

BestWestern wrote:

My only Lion air flight was cancelled. No email or anything from the airline.

I never flew malindo Malaysia (part of the same group) after one of my Uber drivers was a co-pilot for them. He needed the pocket money


1. It's sad since I never had such issues with the other LCCs I've taken (AirAsia X, HKExpress, VietJet, and Jetstar Japan). I recall HKExpress announced in advance which flights were affected by air operations issues or natural disasters.

2. It's especially sad when people in highly skilled professions have to take out second jobs since they're not being paid enough :(
 
juliuswong
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:19 am

jcancel wrote:
BestWestern wrote:

My only Lion air flight was cancelled. No email or anything from the airline.

I never flew malindo Malaysia (part of the same group) after one of my Uber drivers was a co-pilot for them. He needed the pocket money


1. It's sad since I never had such issues with the other LCCs I've taken (AirAsia X, HKExpress, VietJet, and Jetstar Japan). I recall HKExpress announced in advance which flights were affected by air operations issues or natural disasters.

2. It's especially sad when people in highly skilled professions have to take out second jobs since they're not being paid enough :(

It can well be that the co-pilot is not living within his means. Therefore to make such uninformed decision is pretty short sighted.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
many321
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:20 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I think it can be safely presumed that the 188 on board are all gone. I would hope it wasn't an actual problem with the Boeing 737 MAX itself, given how it was observed to basically just plunge into the water (vertical stabilizer failure?).


Yeah, like the USAIr and United crashes in the early 90s.
 
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Narfish641
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:29 am

YYJTurk wrote:
RetroRoo wrote:
A little baffled at some people above who seem to be sadder about a 737Max8 being destroyed than the people who were inside it...


That's exactly what I was thinking... So sad indeed.


Thinking the same way. RIP to everyone on board. This is truly sad news here.....
Flew on:
SWA 737 738
 
rheinwaldner
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:41 am

log0008 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Same flight yesterday to today

Image


Pitots? That just looks really erratic.


Highly, highly unlikely they levelled of at 5000ft and struggled along for almost 8 mins, it seems very likely that this aircraft had something very wrong with it.

I noticed, that the first altitude drop already occurred during the turn after take off. So the problem started to appear very early.
Many things are difficult, all things are possible!
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:44 am

many321 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
I think it can be safely presumed that the 188 on board are all gone. I would hope it wasn't an actual problem with the Boeing 737 MAX itself, given how it was observed to basically just plunge into the water (vertical stabilizer failure?).


Yeah, like the USAIr and United crashes in the early 90s.


There was no warning in those crashes. It pretty much occurred and was over in moments. This appears to be something different. It’d be interesting to know if they said anything specific to ATC or their own company about what the issue was.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5388
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:44 am

RIP to anyone on board.

Is this the first recent Lion Air with (potentially) catastrophic consequences?

I see in Wikipedia that Lion Air has had many incidents in the last few years, but (miraculously) none of them had fatalities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_Air# ... _accidents

As for banning the airline, according always to Wiki in 2015, Lion Air was by far the largest carrier by market share in ID:

Lion Air (41.6%)
Garuda Indonesia (23.5%)
Sriwijaya Air (10.4%)
Citilink (8.9%)
Wings Air (4.7%)
Indonesia AirAsia (4.4%)
Others (6.5%)

Maybe this has changed in recent years.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3245
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:48 am

SQ789 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
This is an awful news to wake up to. RIP to all passengers and crew on board. Prayers for families and closed ones.

The photos is a reminiscent of QZ8501. Hopefully they can find the black box quick enough since the wreckage is located in shallow water.

That being said, the weather at South East Asia has been horrendous over the past few week. Last night I did KCH-KUL, moment after taking off heading to South China Sea, the B737NG shook violently (I presume any aircraft would be the same too), the seat belt sign didn't go off after 45mins after taking off. 20 mins before landing the shaking returned. Pilot has to put down the aircraft hard, slamming down the runaway with a loud thud.

All passengers are presumed to have died according to the spokesperson. If everyone died, I think it's the time that Lion Air should go bankrupt, that's the reason. I haven't fly with this airline for 5 years already and now I am continued to do so and suggest everyone to never fly this airline. Their safety record (even before the crash) are amongst the worst. I hope other airline in Indonesia could do better than Lion does, last year a more poor safety record for being delayed are another thing.


No kidding 14 years, 14 crashes ! Opps, sorry. Uncontrolled crashes.
 
LUV737
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:56 am

http://avherald.com/h?article=4bf90724&opt=0

From comments at avherald (see link above):

For what it’s worth. Unconfirmed source - There’s an screenshot from the electronic tech log doing the rounds on the inter web. The crew operating the previous sector inbound to Jakarta made an entry that they experienced unreliable airspeed on Takeoff. They ran the NNC, deemed the CAPT instruments to be unreliable and handed over PF duties to the FO and continued for safe landing.
 
rnav2dlrey
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:10 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:00 am

from reuters on twitter:

MORE: Crashed Lion Air flight #JT610 had technical problem in previous flight, but had been resolved according to procedure - Indonesia Lion Air CEO
 
ratp101
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:00 am

rbavfan wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
Not to take away the focus from this sad situation; but is this a record from delivery to crash for any airline and/or aircraft made?


China Air 747 took a swim off Hong Kong less than a year old as well.


Air France Boeing 707 on approach to Pointe-à-Pitre in 1968 : 46 hours on the airframe
Also, Air France Boeing 707 on approach to Pointe-à-Pitre in 1962 : four months old
 
spacecadet
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:01 am

rheinwaldner wrote:
I noticed, that the first altitude drop already occurred during the turn after take off. So the problem started to appear very early.


Flightaware doesn't show that deviation. I don't know the difference in how the two sites gather their data, but in the absence of anything corroborating, and in the presence of another data source that's *not* corroborating, I'd be more likely to chalk this up to statistical noise more than anything else (as I mentioned before).
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
avier
Posts: 915
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:06 am

Just to understand this on a slightly different note;

If an airline is on the banned list for flights by EU or US-FAA, do they give travel advisories to their people wishing to travel to such places and with such info (i.e banned airlines)? Something like say what China does telling their locals which countries are safe to travel to and which are not.

It would make sense to if it isn't done so already, since they are "protecting" their citizens in a way and those airlines are anyways banned from flying to those continents/countries for safety purposes.
 
smallvoyageur
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:07 am

When I first heard about this, it reminded me of this al-Jazeera 101 East documentary on Indonesian airlines, especially Lion Air.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSZ-R5HdPQU
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5388
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:07 am

rnav2dlrey wrote:
from reuters on twitter:

MORE: Crashed Lion Air flight #JT610 had technical problem in previous flight, but had been resolved according to procedure - Indonesia Lion Air CEO


I have the feeling that Lion Air is going to try to blame Boeing for this accident. Coming from a country like Indonesia, it wouldn't be surprising.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:11 am

LionAir is a big MAX (and NG) customer. Boeing will tread carefully but obviously won’t be taking the fall willingly if it was a sensor reading that is a known possibility that is trained for.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
juliuswong
Moderator
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Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:12 am

SCQ83 wrote:
RIP to anyone on board.

Is this the first recent Lion Air with (potentially) catastrophic consequences?

I see in Wikipedia that Lion Air has had many incidents in the last few years, but (miraculously) none of them had fatalities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_Air# ... _accidents

As for banning the airline, according always to Wiki in 2015, Lion Air was by far the largest carrier by market share in ID:

Lion Air (41.6%)
Garuda Indonesia (23.5%)
Sriwijaya Air (10.4%)
Citilink (8.9%)
Wings Air (4.7%)
Indonesia AirAsia (4.4%)
Others (6.5%)

Maybe this has changed in recent years.

Last year number here:
Garuda Indonesia 20%
Citilink* 13%
Garuda Group 33%

Lion Air 34%
Wings Air 6%
Batik Air 10%
Lion Group 51%

Sriwijaya Air 10%
Nam Air 3%
Sriwijaya Group 13%

Indonesia AirAsia* 2%
Others 2%
Note: *Citilink counted under Garuda until 2012, when it transitioned from a Garuda unit to a separate airline with its own operator's certificate.
Indonesia AirAsia domestic share includes flights operated by Indonesia AirAsia X.
Batik Air and Nam Air launched in 2013.
Source: CAPA - Centre for Aviation & Indonesia DGAC.

SOURCE: https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... ies-410650
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
SYDSpotter
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:13 am

Sad day for those families impacted by this tragic accident.

Sadly that doesn't stop a few on these boards wildly speculating as to the cause or coming up with their own uneducated theories, anyway the most important thing is that their favourite manufacturer wasn't involved in the accident :sarcastic:
319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
Rudenko
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:38 am

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangal Pinang

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:18 am

Absolutely dreadful news, thoughts are with the families at this time, God bless.

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