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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:07 pm

tullamarine wrote:
qf789 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:

Was QF9 delayed or the returning QF10? I could understand how the return crew could time out as they were sitting around at the airport but, unless the plane was held on the ground in PER due to LHR weather, which seems weird, the crew on QF9 would've timed out and the options would've been landing with time exceeded or diverting to AMS when iit became obvious that they were going to break cap.


Both, QF9 has not departed PER, VH-ZNB has been sitting in PER for the past 22 hours which has caused a knock on effect to the departing QF10

It seems strange that they would delay a flight because of a possible weather issue 17 hours in the future. Weather forecasting is not so accurate as to determine that there is no possibility of a plane landing that far ahead. Maybe I'm a cynic but there seems to be something else behind the delay.


Qantas Source confirms it as a weather delay, they hace said that due to weather at LHR the morning QF9 was due to land long hold times and a diversion possible that the flight was deayed overnight.

http://theqantassource.com/qantas-b787- ... rth-delay/

Personally I think QF was trying to avoid an issue where they would have to divert and therefore delayed the flight 25 hours. A diversion would have been costly particularly as they would either need to send new crew to the diversion airport or allow enough time for the crew to have minimum rest not to mention costs to put passengers up in hotels if it came to that point. On top of that if the flight went ahead they would have had to leave about 40 passengers behind in PER to allow for more fuel which would have contributed to the decision to delay the flight
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ZuluAlpha
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:11 pm

qf789 wrote:
Last night’s QF9 has been delayed by 25 hours due to bad weather in London, crew timed out hence the delay, I have read elsewhere that they were going to off load 40 passengers to take on extra fuel, can anyone confirm this?

The delayed QF10 will depart LHR tomorrow at 8am for an 830am arrival into PER on Thursday


With the Weather in / around Europe, the tanks were full. As well as the 40 passengers, they were also going to have to unload all the bags as well
Flown on:_CRJ, CR7 D10 DHT DH8, DH2, DH3, DH4, EMB, E45, E75, E90, F28 J32 M80 SH6 320, 32B, 332, 333, 380, 717, 732, 733, 734, 73H, 743, 744, 752 762, 763, 772, 77W
 
Ryanair01
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:15 pm

[Please delete]
Last edited by Ryanair01 on Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
ZuluAlpha
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:16 pm

qf789 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
qf789 wrote:

Both, QF9 has not departed PER, VH-ZNB has been sitting in PER for the past 22 hours which has caused a knock on effect to the departing QF10

It seems strange that they would delay a flight because of a possible weather issue 17 hours in the future. Weather forecasting is not so accurate as to determine that there is no possibility of a plane landing that far ahead. Maybe I'm a cynic but there seems to be something else behind the delay.


Qantas Source confirms it as a weather delay, they hace said that due to weather at LHR the morning QF9 was due to land long hold times and a diversion possible that the flight was deayed overnight.

http://theqantassource.com/qantas-b787- ... rth-delay/

Personally I think QF was trying to avoid an issue where they would have to divert and therefore delayed the flight 25 hours. A diversion would have been costly particularly as they would either need to send new crew to the diversion airport or allow enough time for the crew to have minimum rest not to mention costs to put passengers up in hotels if it came to that point. On top of that if the flight went ahead they would have had to leave about 40 passengers behind in PER to allow for more fuel which would have contributed to the decision to delay the flight


At 2 hours prior to departure the decision was made, with the blessing of both the tech crew and FA's to go with 40 less pax and no bags. Then at 40 minutes prior to departure (yes just before the passengers were boarding), 4 of the flight attendants advised they were 'fatigued' which subsequently caused the 25 hour delay.
Flown on:_CRJ, CR7 D10 DHT DH8, DH2, DH3, DH4, EMB, E45, E75, E90, F28 J32 M80 SH6 320, 32B, 332, 333, 380, 717, 732, 733, 734, 73H, 743, 744, 752 762, 763, 772, 77W
 
Ryanair01
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:20 pm

ZuluAlpha wrote:
qf789 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
It seems strange that they would delay a flight because of a possible weather issue 17 hours in the future. Weather forecasting is not so accurate as to determine that there is no possibility of a plane landing that far ahead. Maybe I'm a cynic but there seems to be something else behind the delay.


Qantas Source confirms it as a weather delay, they hace said that due to weather at LHR the morning QF9 was due to land long hold times and a diversion possible that the flight was deayed overnight.

http://theqantassource.com/qantas-b787- ... rth-delay/

Personally I think QF was trying to avoid an issue where they would have to divert and therefore delayed the flight 25 hours. A diversion would have been costly particularly as they would either need to send new crew to the diversion airport or allow enough time for the crew to have minimum rest not to mention costs to put passengers up in hotels if it came to that point. On top of that if the flight went ahead they would have had to leave about 40 passengers behind in PER to allow for more fuel which would have contributed to the decision to delay the flight


At 2 hours prior to departure the decision was made, with the blessing of both the tech crew and FA's to go with 40 less pax and no bags. Then at 40 minutes prior to departure (yes just before the passengers were boarding), 4 of the flight attendants advised they were 'fatigued' which subsequently caused the 25 hour delay.


Interesting, it is said the LHR crew at QF are a difficult bunch and there are a few union issues right now.
 
vhebb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:12 pm

Surely QF will retime the QF118 HKG-SYD to an AM departure rather than leaving the aircraft on the ground in HKG for 17hrs?

Whats the chances the new SYD-NAN-SYD will be an overnight flight using s B73H that would usually be on the ground? Leaving SYD at around 9pm back at 7am would work?
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:34 pm

vhebb wrote:
Whats the chances the new SYD-NAN-SYD will be an overnight flight using s B73H that would usually be on the ground? Leaving SYD at around 9pm back at 7am would work?


I'd say very unlikely, such a schedule would be extremely brutal. A flight during the middle of the day like JQ/VA should still allow time for an early morning domestic flight into SYD from MEL/BNE and for a couple of evening flights after the aircraft gets back.
 
MooLor
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:31 pm

Reports SYD is down to one runway again due to flooding to the other two runways this morning. Many flight cancellations.

An hour-wide storm cell with extremely heavy rain went thru around three / four hours ago, so the runway situation may have been resolved by now.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:19 pm

ZuluAlpha wrote:
qf789 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
It seems strange that they would delay a flight because of a possible weather issue 17 hours in the future. Weather forecasting is not so accurate as to determine that there is no possibility of a plane landing that far ahead. Maybe I'm a cynic but there seems to be something else behind the delay.


Qantas Source confirms it as a weather delay, they hace said that due to weather at LHR the morning QF9 was due to land long hold times and a diversion possible that the flight was deayed overnight.

http://theqantassource.com/qantas-b787- ... rth-delay/

Personally I think QF was trying to avoid an issue where they would have to divert and therefore delayed the flight 25 hours. A diversion would have been costly particularly as they would either need to send new crew to the diversion airport or allow enough time for the crew to have minimum rest not to mention costs to put passengers up in hotels if it came to that point. On top of that if the flight went ahead they would have had to leave about 40 passengers behind in PER to allow for more fuel which would have contributed to the decision to delay the flight


At 2 hours prior to departure the decision was made, with the blessing of both the tech crew and FA's to go with 40 less pax and no bags. Then at 40 minutes prior to departure (yes just before the passengers were boarding), 4 of the flight attendants advised they were 'fatigued' which subsequently caused the 25 hour delay.


That is very different from a weather delay though I understand why QF wanted to manage the comms by sheeting all the blame onto London weather. There was talk when the LHR-PER service started that the LHR based crew were concerned about the rosters they were being given. Typically the crew get just over 24 hours rest in PER before returning to LHR. This is very different from the old arrangement where AU crew used to get over 48 hours in London as well as a similar rest in DXB.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:25 am

The transfer of all eight Jetconnect B738s 'back' to mainline is now complete. ZK-ZQH / VH-VZQ has entered mainline service this morning as QF798 BNE-CNS.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHVZQ/history/1280
 
flylonghaul
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:55 am

MooLor wrote:
Reports SYD is down to one runway again due to flooding to the other two runways this morning. Many flight cancellations.

An hour-wide storm cell with extremely heavy rain went thru around three / four hours ago, so the runway situation may have been resolved by now.

Just looked at FR24 and listening to ATC and was wondering what was happening.
Looks like most flights are using 07 except for eg QF11,AA72 which used 16R
Heard reports of severe turbulence and more developing storms over ATC as well.
Seems like its going to be a tough afternoon at SYD.
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csturdiv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:29 am

flylonghaul wrote:
MooLor wrote:
Reports SYD is down to one runway again due to flooding to the other two runways this morning. Many flight cancellations.

An hour-wide storm cell with extremely heavy rain went thru around three / four hours ago, so the runway situation may have been resolved by now.

Just looked at FR24 and listening to ATC and was wondering what was happening.
Looks like most flights are using 07 except for eg QF11,AA72 which used 16R
Heard reports of severe turbulence and more developing storms over ATC as well.
Seems like its going to be a tough afternoon at SYD.


It is tough not just out at SYD, but for all of the city. In about a little over 2 1/2 hours this morning, we received enough rain for the usual November average. Plus it was windy as hell ontop the rain. A little before 7am when I left, it was raining sideways. O'Riordan Street that leads out to the airport was flooded in parts and potential Darwin award winners were trying to drive through the flood waters. They are saying there is a chance for hail and a little while ago, the equivalent of over 4.5 inches of rain has already fallen. It is not a good day around here. I work in Alexandria, out near SYD, and we are going through periods of heavy rain, followed by what would normally be considered as "moderately heavy" rain then back to the heavy rain. I leave the office at 4pm and have a 20 minute or so walk to the house. Could be an interesting walk with many detours and avoiding standing water and people driving through the waters.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
flylonghaul
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:37 am

csturdiv wrote:
flylonghaul wrote:
MooLor wrote:
Reports SYD is down to one runway again due to flooding to the other two runways this morning. Many flight cancellations.

An hour-wide storm cell with extremely heavy rain went thru around three / four hours ago, so the runway situation may have been resolved by now.

Just looked at FR24 and listening to ATC and was wondering what was happening.
Looks like most flights are using 07 except for eg QF11,AA72 which used 16R
Heard reports of severe turbulence and more developing storms over ATC as well.
Seems like its going to be a tough afternoon at SYD.


It is tough not just out at SYD, but for all of the city. In about a little over 2 1/2 hours this morning, we received enough rain for the usual November average. Plus it was windy as hell ontop the rain. A little before 7am when I left, it was raining sideways. O'Riordan Street that leads out to the airport was flooded in parts and potential Darwin award winners were trying to drive through the flood waters. They are saying there is a chance for hail and a little while ago, the equivalent of over 4.5 inches of rain has already fallen. It is not a good day around here. I work in Alexandria, out near SYD, and we are going through periods of heavy rain, followed by what would normally be considered as "moderately heavy" rain then back to the heavy rain. I leave the office at 4pm and have a 20 minute or so walk to the house. Could be an interesting walk with many detours and avoiding standing water and people driving through the waters.


Ooff sounds like fun. I lived just off Botany Rd in Alexandria for a number of years and didnt see it ever get that bad. Thanks for the info. Certainly gives an idea of whats happening.
Spotting was always fun when they are using 07 or 25 though.
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brucetiki
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:42 am

Really bad day for Sydney all round, let alone SYD.

Everything's 2+ hours delayed, and I've counted around 30 domestic cancellations so far on the SYD website. I'm sure that'll only increase as the next cell hits.
The early bird catches the worm, the late bird will be featured on a You Tube video
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:50 am

qf789 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
qf789 wrote:


I have information from another source that, either in addition to or in spite of (not sure which) the info on The Qantas Source, ZNB had a pressurisation issue due to a faulty cargo door seal.

It looks like Tuesday's QF10 will depart at 0800 BST on Wednesday, and Wednesday's QF10 will depart at 1600 BST on Wednesday. I wonder if they'll be looking to bring ZNH into service this evening, or whether QF49 will be cancelled - currently showing as departing on time.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:14 am

vhebb wrote:
Surely QF will retime the QF118 HKG-SYD to an AM departure rather than leaving the aircraft on the ground in HKG for 17hrs?


It's an interesting move. A few possibilities come to mind. There may be poor loads on QF117 but not on QF118.
QF have made money by temporarily swapping the original QF117 slot. Given how thin HKG routes are at the moment, this might be sensible.
QF could also be dipping their toe into more overnight flights out of Australia
Also depending how QF crew their flights, this might also reduce crewing hours.

QF do have some slack on their A332s as the aircraft would have been parked at SYD overnight. I know the A333s are consistently doing AKL runs out of SYD/MEL/BNE at the moment.

Whats the chances the new SYD-NAN-SYD will be an overnight flight using s B73H that would usually be on the ground? Leaving SYD at around 9pm back at 7am would work?


Timings sound sensible.
I'm that bad type.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:39 am

vhebb wrote:
Surely QF will retime the QF118 HKG-SYD to an AM departure rather than leaving the aircraft on the ground in HKG for 17hrs?

Whats the chances the new SYD-NAN-SYD will be an overnight flight using s B73H that would usually be on the ground? Leaving SYD at around 9pm back at 7am would work?



Sounds a pretty unattractive schedule as the SYD-NAN flight would arrive into Fiji around 3AM. Hardly enticing if you are travelling with children. Likewise the return flight would leave NAN at about 5AM meaning you'd be checking out of your hotel at 12:30AM!!!

If QF are serious, they will pretty much match VA's schedules which means a mid- morning departure from SYD and arrival back into AU around 8:30PM.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:32 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
I have information from another source that, either in addition to or in spite of (not sure which) the info on The Qantas Source, ZNB had a pressurisation issue due to a faulty cargo door seal.

It looks like Tuesday's QF10 will depart at 0800 BST on Wednesday, and Wednesday's QF10 will depart at 1600 BST on Wednesday. I wonder if they'll be looking to bring ZNH into service this evening, or whether QF49 will be cancelled - currently showing as departing on time.

Along with ZNH, it appears whichever of ZNA/ZNG does not operate todays QF9 will also be available for QF49/50 tonight.
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:40 am

tullamarine wrote:
Sounds a pretty unattractive schedule as the SYD-NAN flight would arrive into Fiji around 3AM. Hardly enticing if you are travelling with children. Likewise the return flight would leave NAN at about 5AM meaning you'd be checking out of your hotel at 12:30AM!!!.


Unattractive to passengers yes. But if it utilises a frame that is otherwise sitting on the ground at SYD all night, then it's a low cost to Qantas and if they price it attractively enough I'm sure they will get passengers.

That said Qantas generally favours customer friendly schedule (and thus yield) over utilisation - ergo planes sitting at LAX, Haneda, previously London, and soon Hong Kong for much of the day
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:09 am

Dan23 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
I have information from another source that, either in addition to or in spite of (not sure which) the info on The Qantas Source, ZNB had a pressurisation issue due to a faulty cargo door seal.

It looks like Tuesday's QF10 will depart at 0800 BST on Wednesday, and Wednesday's QF10 will depart at 1600 BST on Wednesday. I wonder if they'll be looking to bring ZNH into service this evening, or whether QF49 will be cancelled - currently showing as departing on time.

Along with ZNH, it appears whichever of ZNA/ZNG does not operate todays QF9 will also be available for QF49/50 tonight.


You're right, I'd forgotten there were already 2 others in MEL (rather than 1). As luck would have it, it looks like ZNH will be doing QF9 today.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:58 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
Dan23 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
I have information from another source that, either in addition to or in spite of (not sure which) the info on The Qantas Source, ZNB had a pressurisation issue due to a faulty cargo door seal.

It looks like Tuesday's QF10 will depart at 0800 BST on Wednesday, and Wednesday's QF10 will depart at 1600 BST on Wednesday. I wonder if they'll be looking to bring ZNH into service this evening, or whether QF49 will be cancelled - currently showing as departing on time.

Along with ZNH, it appears whichever of ZNA/ZNG does not operate todays QF9 will also be available for QF49/50 tonight.


You're right, I'd forgotten there were already 2 others in MEL (rather than 1). As luck would have it, it looks like ZNH will be doing QF9 today.


Yes VH-ZNH has entered service today

https://www.flightradar24.com/QFA9/1eb2003f
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:07 am

brucetiki wrote:
Really bad day for Sydney all round, let alone SYD.

Everything's 2+ hours delayed, and I've counted around 30 domestic cancellations so far on the SYD website. I'm sure that'll only increase as the next cell hits.


Due to the weather QF582 PER-SYD will miss the curfew and has been delayed for a 2300 departure now operating as a redeye, looks like VA redeye to MEL will be delayed as well due to incoming aircraft being late.

On another note for the past week VA has upgraded some services to KTA from F100 to 738 equipment
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:31 am

moa999 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Sounds a pretty unattractive schedule as the SYD-NAN flight would arrive into Fiji around 3AM. Hardly enticing if you are travelling with children. Likewise the return flight would leave NAN at about 5AM meaning you'd be checking out of your hotel at 12:30AM!!!.


Unattractive to passengers yes. But if it utilises a frame that is otherwise sitting on the ground at SYD all night, then it's a low cost to Qantas and if they price it attractively enough I'm sure they will get passengers.

That said Qantas generally favours customer friendly schedule (and thus yield) over utilisation - ergo planes sitting at LAX, Haneda, previously London, and soon Hong Kong for much of the day


I do imagine like DPS, and HNL this route will be a FF redemption route making the schedule more appealing when you aren’t paying directly but using points... and makes sense from a frame usage perspective. I wonder if like DPS we could see a service ex MEL post launch, really challenge and dilute the yields of the VA international network!
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:44 am

Just noticed on FR24 VH-OEB has done a SYD-MEL-SYD rotation today
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getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:00 am

tullamarine wrote:
vhebb wrote:
Surely QF will retime the QF118 HKG-SYD to an AM departure rather than leaving the aircraft on the ground in HKG for 17hrs?

Whats the chances the new SYD-NAN-SYD will be an overnight flight using s B73H that would usually be on the ground? Leaving SYD at around 9pm back at 7am would work?



Sounds a pretty unattractive schedule as the SYD-NAN flight would arrive into Fiji around 3AM. Hardly enticing if you are travelling with children. Likewise the return flight would leave NAN at about 5AM meaning you'd be checking out of your hotel at 12:30AM!!!

If QF are serious, they will pretty much match VA's schedules which means a mid- morning departure from SYD and arrival back into AU around 8:30PM.


To allow connections on the departure side you are looking at a 9:30-10AM departure and I doubt QF are keen to utilise a prime SYD slot for a leisure route and you will not be able to make connections work on the return. This is going to be a ~10:30PM departure.
I'm that bad type.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:05 am

smi0006 wrote:
moa999 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Sounds a pretty unattractive schedule as the SYD-NAN flight would arrive into Fiji around 3AM. Hardly enticing if you are travelling with children. Likewise the return flight would leave NAN at about 5AM meaning you'd be checking out of your hotel at 12:30AM!!!.


Unattractive to passengers yes. But if it utilises a frame that is otherwise sitting on the ground at SYD all night, then it's a low cost to Qantas and if they price it attractively enough I'm sure they will get passengers.

That said Qantas generally favours customer friendly schedule (and thus yield) over utilisation - ergo planes sitting at LAX, Haneda, previously London, and soon Hong Kong for much of the day


I do imagine like DPS, and HNL this route will be a FF redemption route making the schedule more appealing when you aren’t paying directly but using points... and makes sense from a frame usage perspective. I wonder if like DPS we could see a service ex MEL post launch, really challenge and dilute the yields of the VA international network!

If you are thinking it would appeal to the FF market, then it would have greatest effect on the FJ and JQ yields. Those coming from the VA ecosphere would stay with VA.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:07 am

qf789 wrote:
Just noticed on FR24 VH-OEB has done a SYD-MEL-SYD rotation today

This is the third day in November with significant network delays due to weather, principally SYD but also a day where MEL was also affected. I imagine the on-time statistics for November will be the worst we have seen for a few years.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:16 am

tullamarine wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Just noticed on FR24 VH-OEB has done a SYD-MEL-SYD rotation today

This is the third day in November with significant network delays due to weather, principally SYD but also a day where MEL was also affected. I imagine the on-time statistics for November will be the worst we have seen for a few years.


You mean the third day in the past week. Today there have been delays out of BNE and OOL due to weather as well. Having seen the OTP for VA last week on those 2 effected days, OTP was thrown out of the window. Today's weather delays and cancellations will run into tomorrow with both QF and VA trying to catch up on the impact caused today. I guess in hindsight it is better that these weather events are happening now and hopefully we wont see them in say 3 weeks time as that could be a different story
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getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:26 am

tullamarine wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
moa999 wrote:

Unattractive to passengers yes. But if it utilises a frame that is otherwise sitting on the ground at SYD all night, then it's a low cost to Qantas and if they price it attractively enough I'm sure they will get passengers.

That said Qantas generally favours customer friendly schedule (and thus yield) over utilisation - ergo planes sitting at LAX, Haneda, previously London, and soon Hong Kong for much of the day


I do imagine like DPS, and HNL this route will be a FF redemption route making the schedule more appealing when you aren’t paying directly but using points... and makes sense from a frame usage perspective. I wonder if like DPS we could see a service ex MEL post launch, really challenge and dilute the yields of the VA international network!

If you are thinking it would appeal to the FF market, then it would have greatest effect on the FJ and JQ yields. Those coming from the VA ecosphere would stay with VA.


Still it will attract a lot of indifferent flyers who would only prefer to choose between QF or VA. I doubt everyone on a VA flight is that fanatical about VA.
I'm that bad type.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2589
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:47 am

getluv wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

I do imagine like DPS, and HNL this route will be a FF redemption route making the schedule more appealing when you aren’t paying directly but using points... and makes sense from a frame usage perspective. I wonder if like DPS we could see a service ex MEL post launch, really challenge and dilute the yields of the VA international network!

If you are thinking it would appeal to the FF market, then it would have greatest effect on the FJ and JQ yields. Those coming from the VA ecosphere would stay with VA.


Still it will attract a lot of indifferent flyers who would only prefer to choose between QF or VA. I doubt everyone on a VA flight is that fanatical about VA.

You're right. There is a huge sector of the market that will just chase price. I don't think that is the market QF would necessarily be chasing for mainline. JQ is a much better vehicle for low yield and FF redemptions.

QF must have identified a market exists for mainline which will principally be on the back of premium flyers who currently all go to FJ or VA. I think they'll do alright particularly as Fiji tourism continues to rebound but a back of clock schedule will not attract anyone unless the price is super-low so makes no sense for QF itself.
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getluv
Posts: 594
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:55 am

tullamarine wrote:
getluv wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
If you are thinking it would appeal to the FF market, then it would have greatest effect on the FJ and JQ yields. Those coming from the VA ecosphere would stay with VA.


Still it will attract a lot of indifferent flyers who would only prefer to choose between QF or VA. I doubt everyone on a VA flight is that fanatical about VA.

You're right. There is a huge sector of the market that will just chase price. I don't think that is the market QF would necessarily be chasing for mainline. JQ is a much better vehicle for low yield and FF redemptions.

QF must have identified a market exists for mainline which will principally be on the back of premium flyers who currently all go to FJ or VA. I think they'll do alright particularly as Fiji tourism continues to rebound but a back of clock schedule will not attract anyone unless the price is super-low so makes no sense for QF itself.

Fiji has some of the most exclusive resorts in the world. It’s actually a very premium market. I think DPS showed that JQ and QF can operate side by side.

Also there seems to be a renewed focus over the past few years on leisure routes by QF, with customers willing to pay more and there’s lee competition.
I'm that bad type.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2793
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:20 am

getluv wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

I do imagine like DPS, and HNL this route will be a FF redemption route making the schedule more appealing when you aren’t paying directly but using points... and makes sense from a frame usage perspective. I wonder if like DPS we could see a service ex MEL post launch, really challenge and dilute the yields of the VA international network!

If you are thinking it would appeal to the FF market, then it would have greatest effect on the FJ and JQ yields. Those coming from the VA ecosphere would stay with VA.


Still it will attract a lot of indifferent flyers who would only prefer to choose between QF or VA. I doubt everyone on a VA flight is that fanatical about VA.


I'm not sure anyone here gets the Fiji market. If you were on the mainland, you'd be paying an extra night's accomodation for not much of a night, checking out at, what 2am to get to the airport? And you're arrival time.. again, as pointed out. How do you manage a 4am arrival? You're there to holiday, not sit bleary eyed in an airport terminal wondrring why you didn't pony up a little more for a better schedule. And the kids!

And if you're on an island resort, well good luck with that. Fiji isn't cheap and it's not 24 hours, like a Bali.

Who would do this? If it is price sensitive pax, hand it to JQ. I'm pretty sure if VA were doing this we'd be hearing ad nauseum about what a bonehead move it is so I'll go out on a limb... if the QF schedule is as mooted here, bonehead move to the roo.

But I don't think QF are that dumb. I'd say a mid morning departure after the rush with an evening return.
 
VHZNE
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:43 am

qf789 wrote:
Just noticed on FR24 VH-OEB has done a SYD-MEL-SYD rotation today


OEH is also due in to MEL around 2300L from KIX presumably carrying Bon Jovi as he just had a concert there, followed by Melbourne on Saturday.
 
getluv
Posts: 594
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:49 am

aerokiwi wrote:
getluv wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
If you are thinking it would appeal to the FF market, then it would have greatest effect on the FJ and JQ yields. Those coming from the VA ecosphere would stay with VA.


Still it will attract a lot of indifferent flyers who would only prefer to choose between QF or VA. I doubt everyone on a VA flight is that fanatical about VA.


I'm not sure anyone here gets the Fiji market. If you were on the mainland, you'd be paying an extra night's accomodation for not much of a night, checking out at, what 2am to get to the airport? And you're arrival time.. again, as pointed out. How do you manage a 4am arrival? You're there to holiday, not sit bleary eyed in an airport terminal wondrring why you didn't pony up a little more for a better schedule. And the kids!

And if you're on an island resort, well good luck with that. Fiji isn't cheap and it's not 24 hours, like a Bali.

Who would do this? If it is price sensitive pax, hand it to JQ. I'm pretty sure if VA were doing this we'd be hearing ad nauseum about what a bonehead move it is so I'll go out on a limb... if the QF schedule is as mooted here, bonehead move to the roo.

But I don't think QF are that dumb. I'd say a mid morning departure after the rush with an evening return.


How is this any different from getting off a flight after 17 hours at 5am when you probably can’t get into your hotel room for another 10 hours or having to check out 14 hours before your flight home?
I'm that bad type.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:59 am

getluv wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

I do imagine like DPS, and HNL this route will be a FF redemption route making the schedule more appealing when you aren’t paying directly but using points... and makes sense from a frame usage perspective. I wonder if like DPS we could see a service ex MEL post launch, really challenge and dilute the yields of the VA international network!

If you are thinking it would appeal to the FF market, then it would have greatest effect on the FJ and JQ yields. Those coming from the VA ecosphere would stay with VA.


Still it will attract a lot of indifferent flyers who would only prefer to choose between QF or VA. I doubt everyone on a VA flight is that fanatical about VA.


I doubt that. The baked on Frequent Flyers will be flying FJ, and earning status credits while they do so.

Anyone who is sufficiently narrow minded to fly VA just because they don't want to on a fly foreign airline should probably not bother with the rigours of overseas travel and stay home.

I flew FJ SYD-NAN-BNE a few months ago, both flights on A330s, and they were undoubtedly the two best 3 hour flights of my life. I was blown away how good the service was on a relatively short flight. This Qantas Gold Frequent Flyer will not be flying QF to Fiji so long as FJ continues to earn status credits.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
getluv
Posts: 594
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:04 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
getluv wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
If you are thinking it would appeal to the FF market, then it would have greatest effect on the FJ and JQ yields. Those coming from the VA ecosphere would stay with VA.


Still it will attract a lot of indifferent flyers who would only prefer to choose between QF or VA. I doubt everyone on a VA flight is that fanatical about VA.


I doubt that. The baked on Frequent Flyers will be flying FJ, and earning status credits while they do so.

Anyone who is sufficiently narrow minded to fly VA just because they don't want to on a fly foreign airline should probably not bother with the rigours of overseas travel and stay home.

I flew FJ SYD-NAN-BNE a few months ago, both flights on A330s, and they were undoubtedly the two best 3 hour flights of my life. I was blown away how good the service was on a relatively short flight. This Qantas Gold Frequent Flyer will not be flying QF to Fiji so long as FJ continues to earn status credits.

Choice is also good. Having three/four flights a day to choose from will be great and it will be great for connections, and also getting to fly QF will appeal to some. In saying that, FJ have maxed out their capacity and QF is filling a void.
I'm that bad type.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2589
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:35 am

getluv wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
getluv wrote:

Still it will attract a lot of indifferent flyers who would only prefer to choose between QF or VA. I doubt everyone on a VA flight is that fanatical about VA.


I'm not sure anyone here gets the Fiji market. If you were on the mainland, you'd be paying an extra night's accomodation for not much of a night, checking out at, what 2am to get to the airport? And you're arrival time.. again, as pointed out. How do you manage a 4am arrival? You're there to holiday, not sit bleary eyed in an airport terminal wondrring why you didn't pony up a little more for a better schedule. And the kids!

And if you're on an island resort, well good luck with that. Fiji isn't cheap and it's not 24 hours, like a Bali.

Who would do this? If it is price sensitive pax, hand it to JQ. I'm pretty sure if VA were doing this we'd be hearing ad nauseum about what a bonehead move it is so I'll go out on a limb... if the QF schedule is as mooted here, bonehead move to the roo.

But I don't think QF are that dumb. I'd say a mid morning departure after the rush with an evening return.


How is this any different from getting off a flight after 17 hours at 5am when you probably can’t get into your hotel room for another 10 hours or having to check out 14 hours before your flight home?


When you are flying 15 hours from Europe or US, you have no option but to fly through the night and probably arrive or depart at an unsociable hour.

Fiji resorts are quite good at letting you check in early or out late but the question is do you really want to start and end your holiday by sitting up all night especially when for the same money you can fly on a very similar product and fly at a very family friendly time?
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:36 am

Interesting the article also mentions FJ may send another 330 to AU. I hope we see it in Melbourne

Their 11:30 departure arriving 06:30 could do with lie flat beds in business! Similar schedule to suggest QF, only QF will accommodate SYD curfew.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:49 am

12 minutes before curfew and JQ610 from AVV still just passing Wollongong. I assume they are asking for dispensation.
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getluv
Posts: 594
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:01 pm

tullamarine wrote:
getluv wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:

I'm not sure anyone here gets the Fiji market. If you were on the mainland, you'd be paying an extra night's accomodation for not much of a night, checking out at, what 2am to get to the airport? And you're arrival time.. again, as pointed out. How do you manage a 4am arrival? You're there to holiday, not sit bleary eyed in an airport terminal wondrring why you didn't pony up a little more for a better schedule. And the kids!

And if you're on an island resort, well good luck with that. Fiji isn't cheap and it's not 24 hours, like a Bali.

Who would do this? If it is price sensitive pax, hand it to JQ. I'm pretty sure if VA were doing this we'd be hearing ad nauseum about what a bonehead move it is so I'll go out on a limb... if the QF schedule is as mooted here, bonehead move to the roo.

But I don't think QF are that dumb. I'd say a mid morning departure after the rush with an evening return.


How is this any different from getting off a flight after 17 hours at 5am when you probably can’t get into your hotel room for another 10 hours or having to check out 14 hours before your flight home?


When you are flying 15 hours from Europe or US, you have no option but to fly through the night and probably arrive or depart at an unsociable hour.

Fiji resorts are quite good at letting you check in early or out late but the question is do you really want to start and end your holiday by sitting up all night especially when for the same money you can fly on a very similar product and fly at a very family friendly time?


People do this all the time. This is why red eyes exist. For an airline this uses a plane that would be sitting on the ground for 10 hours.

Not everyone wants to fly with children or can fly at family friendly times.
I'm that bad type.
 
ben175
Posts: 807
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:48 pm

Having been for Fiji I remember it was a bit of a struggle getting to the airport for a 7am flight, especially when your resort is 90 minutes away. A 3:45am wake up call was not ideal for the end of a holiday!

QF will operate this service as a day flight, I put money on it. If anything, use the slot JQ currently utilised and make the JQ service a ghastly redeye!
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:20 pm

ANA tipped to announce PER-TKO flights within weeks. The service could start as early as April, operating on a daily basis using 787-9 equipment.

https://thewest.com.au/news/travel/all- ... 881034190z
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:21 pm

smi0006 wrote:
Interesting the article also mentions FJ may send another 330 to AU. I hope we see it in Melbourne

Their 11:30 departure arriving 06:30 could do with lie flat beds in business! Similar schedule to suggest QF, only QF will accommodate SYD curfew.


It's unlikely to be FJ930/931 as the timings do not easily integrate with the A330 schedule and the current schedule does not facilitate onward connections to anywhere other than a couple of islands. The flight is therefore almost exclusively focussed on NAN-MEL O&D which is a smaller market than SYD and BNE.

The first priority is surely going to be to increase FJ921/920 to an A330 year round.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:31 pm

Qantas to codeshare on JQ Thailand routes

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/qan ... agreement/
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:35 pm

Jetstar Japan will take delivery of 3 A321neoLR's from 2020, these frames are on top of the 18 A321neoLR's JQ will be taking and are also likely from the 99 A320neo family order book under the QF Group

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 20-453960/
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:37 pm

qf789 wrote:
ANA tipped to announce PER-TKO flights within weeks, sounds like it will be HND. The service could start as early as April, operating on a daily basis using 787-9 equipment.

https://thewest.com.au/news/travel/all- ... 881034190z


It definitely won't be Haneda unless they plan on dropping SYD-HND. The bilateral has not been amended so it is not possible.

The article you linked does not make any mention of which airport it will be in Tokyo, so is it your own speculation that it would be HND?
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
kriskim
Posts: 422
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:37 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Interesting the article also mentions FJ may send another 330 to AU. I hope we see it in Melbourne

Their 11:30 departure arriving 06:30 could do with lie flat beds in business! Similar schedule to suggest QF, only QF will accommodate SYD curfew.


It's unlikely to be FJ930/931 as the timings do not easily integrate with the A330 schedule and the current schedule does not facilitate onward connections to anywhere other than a couple of islands. The flight is therefore almost exclusively focussed on NAN-MEL O&D which is a smaller market than SYD and BNE.

The first priority is surely going to be to increase FJ921/920 to an A330 year round.


From April FJ will be introducing new morning flights from MEL:

FJ934 MEL 11:50 - 06:40 NAN 737 46
FJ935 NAN 07:00 - 10:50 MEL 737 46
A world built upon connectivity.
 
waoz1
Posts: 580
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:39 pm

i hope NH does start Perth it is a link needed for WA economy
Bet WA threw kitchen sink at them
 
a19901213
Posts: 179
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:06 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
qf789 wrote:
ANA tipped to announce PER-TKO flights within weeks, sounds like it will be HND. The service could start as early as April, operating on a daily basis using 787-9 equipment.

https://thewest.com.au/news/travel/all- ... 881034190z


It definitely won't be Haneda unless they plan on dropping SYD-HND. The bilateral has not been amended so it is not possible.

The article you linked does not make any mention of which airport it will be in Tokyo, so is it your own speculation that it would be HND?


This, also please don’t forget that HND has strict slot take off/landing requirements. Unless they gain a pair of daytime slot otherwise they probably don’t want to sit their plane in Perth whole day.
 
aerohottie
Posts: 828
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:06 pm

kriskim wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Interesting the article also mentions FJ may send another 330 to AU. I hope we see it in Melbourne

Their 11:30 departure arriving 06:30 could do with lie flat beds in business! Similar schedule to suggest QF, only QF will accommodate SYD curfew.


It's unlikely to be FJ930/931 as the timings do not easily integrate with the A330 schedule and the current schedule does not facilitate onward connections to anywhere other than a couple of islands. The flight is therefore almost exclusively focussed on NAN-MEL O&D which is a smaller market than SYD and BNE.

The first priority is surely going to be to increase FJ921/920 to an A330 year round.


From April FJ will be introducing new morning flights from MEL:

FJ934 MEL 11:50 - 06:40 NAN 737 46
FJ935 NAN 07:00 - 10:50 MEL 737 46

Those timings can't be right, are they?

Maybe they're
FJ934 MEL 11:50 - 18:40 NAN 737 46
FJ935 NAN 07:00 - 10:50 MEL 737 46
What?
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