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DLATL
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DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:10 pm

Delta shows its commitment to DTW by making DTW-JAX mainline and 2x per day. It will be operated by 2- 737-900s Dec 22- Jan 4, then switches over to 2- MD-90s until the end of schedule. This replaces the 1x daily CRJ-900
 
kavok
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:37 pm

DL has routed most pax (sans one direct RJ) on this route through an ATL connection for years. NK responds by offering direct service, and DL responds with double daily mainline.
 
flyguy84
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:01 pm

It’s commitment? By adding service to fend of competition? Lol
SFO
 
peanuts
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:03 pm

kavok wrote:
DL has routed most pax (sans one direct RJ) on this route through an ATL connection for years. NK responds by offering direct service, and DL responds with double daily mainline.


What do you mean by "direct" service? Same plane or Nonstop?

Noticed in Enilria's weekly thread that BOS-JAX is also increasing on DL.
Last edited by peanuts on Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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FA9295
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:04 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
It’s commitment? By adding service to fend of competition? Lol

By defending off competition, they're inherently committed. They could easily just reduce the flights if they feel that competing against their competition just isn't worth it.
 
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FA9295
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:05 pm

peanuts wrote:
kavok wrote:
DL has routed most pax (sans one direct RJ) on this route through an ATL connection for years. NK responds by offering direct service, and DL responds with double daily mainline.


What do you mean by "direct" service" Same plane or Nonstop?

Noticed in Enilria's weekly threat that BOS-JAX is also increasing on DL.

Nonstop is what they mean, because they're referring to NK.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:21 pm

"Delta shows it's commitment" is pretty strong language and I would say incorrect. More like "delta is trying to run carrier off the route". Delta was fine cramming everyone in a cr9 at high fares until they hit competition. This is a defensive not offensive move!
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:31 pm

When NK leaves, so will the DL flights. Same song with B6 in ATL the first time they came to town. It's silly to have a pissing contest like this, everyone loses money that way.
 
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FA9295
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:33 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
When NK leaves, so will the DL flights. Same song with B6 in ATL the first time they came to town. It's silly to have a pissing contest like this, everyone loses money that way.

I agree. Similar situation with AA and Volaris in their upcoming CLT-GDL flights. Volaris will almost definitely end up leaving the market first at some point, and AA will soon follow after that...
 
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klm617
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:53 pm

Just proof of how Delta choked off the DTW-JAX market to feed it's ATL obsession I'd I'm sure this is not the only market where it manipulates the potential to force passengers into the routing they want you to fly.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:54 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
"Delta shows it's commitment" is pretty strong language and I would say incorrect. More like "delta is trying to run carrier off the route". Delta was fine cramming everyone in a cr9 at high fares until they hit competition. This is a defensive not offensive move!


No this is Delta being the bully that it is.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Lexy
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:22 pm

Because JAX is a bottomless pit of money that airlines neglect?
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
beerbus
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:30 pm

klm617 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
"Delta shows it's commitment" is pretty strong language and I would say incorrect. More like "delta is trying to run carrier off the route". Delta was fine cramming everyone in a cr9 at high fares until they hit competition. This is a defensive not offensive move!


No this is Delta being the bully that it is.


So am I to understand that DL or any other carrier just gives up market when someone enters their market?

Something like- "oh, a new carrier just entered our market, and I guess we are supposed to just let the new carrier take a significant portion of our market share"?

What would you do if you were running DL- just let someone walk in and take market share, revenue, and profits?

Please tell us how'd you react to someone entering your market, threatening your business if you were running the show?

In any other industry, the incumbent fights back- but in A.net world, I guess you're supposed to take it with a stiff upper lip.....

yeah.....go ahead, poach my customers and marketshare.....haha.
 
Lexy
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:38 pm

beerbus wrote:
klm617 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
"Delta shows it's commitment" is pretty strong language and I would say incorrect. More like "delta is trying to run carrier off the route". Delta was fine cramming everyone in a cr9 at high fares until they hit competition. This is a defensive not offensive move!


No this is Delta being the bully that it is.


So am I to understand that DL or any other carrier just gives up market when someone enters their market?

Something like- "oh, a new carrier just entered our market, and I guess we are supposed to just let the new carrier take a significant portion of our market share"?

What would you do if you were running DL- just let someone walk in and take market share, revenue, and profits?

Please tell us how'd you react to someone entering your market, threatening your business if you were running the show?

In any other industry, the incumbent fights back- but in A.net world, I guess you're supposed to take it with a stiff upper lip.....

yeah.....go ahead, poach my customers and marketshare.....haha.


I seriously doubt any of these folks are "DL's Customers". DL did the same thing to BNA when WN started BNA-ATL. They started actually putting equipment on the route that should've been on there before the flights started. Airlines will cap capacity and increase prices at the drop of the hat and DL and AA are KINGS in that regard.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
DLATL
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:43 pm

klm617 wrote:
Just proof of how Delta choked off the DTW-JAX market to feed it's ATL obsession I'd I'm sure this is not the only market where it manipulates the potential to force passengers into the routing they want you to fly.

So DL adding flights from Atlanta isn’t due to competition?
 
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klm617
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:12 pm

beerbus wrote:
klm617 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
"Delta shows it's commitment" is pretty strong language and I would say incorrect. More like "delta is trying to run carrier off the route". Delta was fine cramming everyone in a cr9 at high fares until they hit competition. This is a defensive not offensive move!


No this is Delta being the bully that it is.


So am I to understand that DL or any other carrier just gives up market when someone enters their market?

Something like- "oh, a new carrier just entered our market, and I guess we are supposed to just let the new carrier take a significant portion of our market share"?

What would you do if you were running DL- just let someone walk in and take market share, revenue, and profits?

Please tell us how'd you react to someone entering your market, threatening your business if you were running the show?

In any other industry, the incumbent fights back- but in A.net world, I guess you're supposed to take it with a stiff upper lip.....

yeah.....go ahead, poach my customers and marketshare.....haha.



I would have enough confidence that my product is superior to any competitor entering the market that I wouldn't feel the need to retaliate but apparently that's not the case with Delta because they know their product is inferior as they route everyone over ATL. Come we are talking about the gold standard of airlines they shouldn't feel threatened by NK in any way. By the way they are choking off a lot of markets out of Detroit just to keep the passengers flowing through ATL SRQ and VPS come to mind.. No if I ran Delta I would show the same level of commitment to the customers at the other hubs as the customers have shown them over the year From North Central to Republic to Northwest not just giving all your best to the ATL based customers
Last edited by klm617 on Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:14 pm

Lexy wrote:
beerbus wrote:
klm617 wrote:

No this is Delta being the bully that it is.


So am I to understand that DL or any other carrier just gives up market when someone enters their market?

Something like- "oh, a new carrier just entered our market, and I guess we are supposed to just let the new carrier take a significant portion of our market share"?

What would you do if you were running DL- just let someone walk in and take market share, revenue, and profits?

Please tell us how'd you react to someone entering your market, threatening your business if you were running the show?

In any other industry, the incumbent fights back- but in A.net world, I guess you're supposed to take it with a stiff upper lip.....

yeah.....go ahead, poach my customers and marketshare.....haha.


I seriously doubt any of these folks are "DL's Customers". DL did the same thing to BNA when WN started BNA-ATL. They started actually putting equipment on the route that should've been on there before the flights started. Airlines will cap capacity and increase prices at the drop of the hat and DL and AA are KINGS in that regard.


Exactly thank you for bringing the voice of reason into this thread.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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FA9295
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:27 pm

Lexy wrote:
beerbus wrote:
klm617 wrote:

No this is Delta being the bully that it is.


So am I to understand that DL or any other carrier just gives up market when someone enters their market?

Something like- "oh, a new carrier just entered our market, and I guess we are supposed to just let the new carrier take a significant portion of our market share"?

What would you do if you were running DL- just let someone walk in and take market share, revenue, and profits?

Please tell us how'd you react to someone entering your market, threatening your business if you were running the show?

In any other industry, the incumbent fights back- but in A.net world, I guess you're supposed to take it with a stiff upper lip.....

yeah.....go ahead, poach my customers and marketshare.....haha.


I seriously doubt any of these folks are "DL's Customers". DL did the same thing to BNA when WN started BNA-ATL. They started actually putting equipment on the route that should've been on there before the flights started. Airlines will cap capacity and increase prices at the drop of the hat and DL and AA are KINGS in that regard.

:checkmark: Yes. DL, NK and WN all have VERY different customer bases, and it's this factor that will ultimately determine which airline gets what type of market share on any route offered. WN has their loyal flier base from their focus cities, NK has anyone looking for the lowest fare possible, and DL has the business market along with some of the local market fliers as well.

In that regard, DL and NK aren't going to "steal" very many customers/passengers from each other...
 
georgiabill
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:29 pm

This may be more about preserving JAX passenger market share than DTW or BOS
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:41 pm

I don't get the 'shows its commitment' language. That's corporate-tool speak that critical readers will dismiss immediately.

That said, Jacksonville airport statistics show DL as the #1 carrier at JAX, ahead of #2 AA by about 10%. One can't be surprised that they're defending their position, be it more flights from ATL or DTW.

http://www.flyjacksonville.com/PDFs/tra ... report.pdf

It's clear that klm617 has no grasp of cost optimization functions (bigger planes can be cheaper per seat) nor scheduling optimization (ATL has way more destinations and frequencies, and JAX-ATL far more frequency than JAX-DTW). His rants show his lack of competence on the issue.
 
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enilria
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:18 am

DLATL wrote:
Delta shows its commitment to DTW by making DTW-JAX mainline and 2x per day. It will be operated by 2- 737-900s Dec 22- Jan 4, then switches over to 2- MD-90s until the end of schedule. This replaces the 1x daily CRJ-900

This is actually pretty out of character for Delta. Usually they ignore ULCCs and save these sorts of retaliations for carriers like AS, B6, UA, and AA. I wonder why this route in particular set them off?

The very new head of network planning at NK used to be at AirTran and AirTran had a very bitter relationships with Delta. Maybe this is a personalized message?
 
beerbus
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:37 am

When I was in marketing at NW, WN entered the DTW MDW market.

We did not react.

WN ended up taking about 50% of our passengers away. The market grew- But our total enplanements in the city pair declined. We laid off staff in MDW as a result.

These are facts.

When WN started DTW IND we drew a line in the sand on any new attacks on our market share, revenue, and profits. I had to producte a plan of action to prevent leakage and sustain long term profits. What would your plan be?

We added flights, lowered fares, added frequentl flyer bonuses, and adv dollars.

We wouldn’t back down. WN howled. Claimed we were being preditory. We called BS on them. WN did the same tactics when AA added DFW service into their intra Texas markets.

They ultimately left the market. We protected our employees, profits, and market share.

The public benefited while this battle raged. What’s wrong with that?

So KLM- you never REALLY answered my question on what you would do if another carrier invaded your markets, threatening your profits and employee jobs.

Your answer about DL screwing DTW doesn’t answer the question.

It sounds like you would do nothing? If so that is a fiduciary failure to shareholders. And oh yeah- What do you tell the folks who get laid off because of the cancellation of newly money losing flights? That happened at MDW.

It didn’t happen in IND.

So please tell me what you would do if your livelihood is threaten by new competition. Don’t spout about DL screwing DTW.

Tell me your plan of action to prevent JAX DTW leakage to NK. That is my question- and I believe it is excellent question to challenge you with.
 
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flymco753
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:40 am

Little does DL know, the margin that they still leave between themselves and NK isnt going to force NK off JAX. If anything, JAX will be fueled.

NK doesnt have to worry about DL here, the market is big enough for 2.

Now, the only way someone would trash JAX is if someone other than DL or NK jumped in, ULCC or not. I call this the "PDX effect". However, I dont think someone like Alaska or Sun Country would make the mistake of trying to fend not only themselves but NK out as well.

Moral of the story is, NK and DL will coincide fine unless DL offers one ways for $80-$90 which they cant do unless they want to lose money. For real.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
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compensateme
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:40 am

enilria wrote:
DLATL wrote:
Delta shows its commitment to DTW by making DTW-JAX mainline and 2x per day. It will be operated by 2- 737-900s Dec 22- Jan 4, then switches over to 2- MD-90s until the end of schedule. This replaces the 1x daily CRJ-900

This is actually pretty out of character for Delta. Usually they ignore ULCCs and save these sorts of retaliations for carriers like AS, B6, UA, and AA. I wonder why this route in particular set them off?

The very new head of network planning at NK used to be at AirTran and AirTran had a very bitter relationships with Delta. Maybe this is a personalized message?


From DTW, DL’s definitely selectively added capacity and lowered fares to compete with NK. A good example is MSY, a market NW had flown as 3x DC-9 or 319 for many years; DL changed service to 2xCR7 but when NK entered the market, they quickly reverted to 3x mainline. JAX is a nearly identical situation. And there’s plenty of other markets DL immediately responded to NK with capacity increases including PHL, LAX and most recently, MCO.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
kavok
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:46 am

enilria wrote:
DLATL wrote:
Delta shows its commitment to DTW by making DTW-JAX mainline and 2x per day. It will be operated by 2- 737-900s Dec 22- Jan 4, then switches over to 2- MD-90s until the end of schedule. This replaces the 1x daily CRJ-900

This is actually pretty out of character for Delta. Usually they ignore ULCCs and save these sorts of retaliations for carriers like AS, B6, UA, and AA. I wonder why this route in particular set them off?

The very new head of network planning at NK used to be at AirTran and AirTran had a very bitter relationships with Delta. Maybe this is a personalized message?



Maybe. Or maybe this is one rare instance where NK actually posed a threat to DLs customer base. In most instances, it is fly a NK jet vs. fly a DL jet, where both are tapping into different customer bases. In this case the option was going to be fly an NK jet, or fly a Delta RJ/make ATL connection.

Maybe when compared to flying that long in a RJ or having to make a connection, DL was actually worried some business pax might actually opt for NK. Yes we know most business pax avoid NK for obvious reasons, but if the other option becomes bad enough, at some point the business pax might opt for them. I don’t know, but maybe 3 hours in a RJ might qualify.
Last edited by kavok on Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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klm617
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:55 am

beerbus wrote:
When I was in marketing at NW, WN entered the DTW MDW market.

We did not react.

WN ended up taking about 50% of our passengers away. The market grew- But our total enplanements in the city pair declined. We laid off staff in MDW as a result.

These are facts.

When WN started DTW IND we drew a line in the sand on any new attacks on our market share, revenue, and profits. I had to producte a plan of action to prevent leakage and sustain long term profits. What would your plan be?

We added flights, lowered fares, added frequentl flyer bonuses, and adv dollars.

We wouldn’t back down. WN howled. Claimed we were being preditory. We called BS on them. WN did the same tactics when AA added DFW service into their intra Texas markets.

They ultimately left the market. We protected our employees, profits, and market share.

The public benefited while this battle raged. What’s wrong with that?

So KLM- you never REALLY answered my question on what you would do if another carrier invaded your markets, threatening your profits and employee jobs.

Your answer about DL screwing DTW doesn’t answer the question.

It sounds like you would do nothing? If so that is a fiduciary failure to shareholders. And oh yeah- What do you tell the folks who get laid off because of the cancellation of newly money losing flights? That happened at MDW.

It didn’t happen in IND.

So please tell me what you would do if your livelihood is threaten by new competition. Don’t spout about DL screwing DTW.

Tell me your plan of action to prevent JAX DTW leakage to NK. That is my question- and I believe it is excellent question to challenge you with.


First of all what makes this insulting is that Delta has no where close to the level of commitment to the Detroit market as Northwest did and that's what I take issue with Northwest never flew from Detroit to a larger US city with a single daily RJ and you know full well if NK drops DTW-JAX we are all screwed into connections over Atlanta again when the market easily can be flow on mainline jets as Delta is no proving. If Delta had the same level of commitment to Detroit as Northwest did I wouldn't even raise an eyebrow but business is a two way street not just a one way street were everything is slanted for the benefit of the investors.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:58 am

kavok wrote:
enilria wrote:
DLATL wrote:
Delta shows its commitment to DTW by making DTW-JAX mainline and 2x per day. It will be operated by 2- 737-900s Dec 22- Jan 4, then switches over to 2- MD-90s until the end of schedule. This replaces the 1x daily CRJ-900

This is actually pretty out of character for Delta. Usually they ignore ULCCs and save these sorts of retaliations for carriers like AS, B6, UA, and AA. I wonder why this route in particular set them off?

The very new head of network planning at NK used to be at AirTran and AirTran had a very bitter relationships with Delta. Maybe this is a personalized message?



Maybe. Or maybe this is one rare instance where NK actually posed a threat to DLs customer base. In most instances, it is fly a NK jet vs. fly a DL jet, where both are tapping into different customer bases. In this case the option was going to be fly an NK jet, or fly a Delta RJ/make ATL connection.

Maybe when compared to flying that long in a RJ or having to make a connection, DL was actually worried some business pax might actually opt for NK. Yes we know most business pax avoid NK for obvious reasons, but if the other option becomes bad enough, at some point the business pax might opt for them. I don’t know, but maybe 3 hours in a RJ might qualify.


Then they shouldn't have been flying the RJ in the first place. Kudos to NK for calling Delta's bluff.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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FA9295
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:59 am

flymco753 wrote:
I call this the "PDX effect". However, I dont think someone like Alaska or Sun Country would make the mistake of trying to fend not only themselves but NK out as well.

Not to go too off topic, but...
I don't think Alaska is really going to react at all to Sun Country at PDX. When Sun Country added PDX-MCO, Alaska didn't have to do anything at all. That route already failed w/o any reaction from Alaska. We'll see if it returns next year, but my gut tells me that it won't...

Sun Country's new PDX flights are only offered 2-4x weekly to destinations that are already highly served. Initially, they wanted PDX-RNO, but it was too small of a market, so they moved it to PDX-SFO instead. I'm guessing that Sun Country's goal at PDX is to steal some loyal AS fliers who are looking for a cheaper fare. I hope they're successful, because we need more than just Alaska here at PDX...

Another example would be NK's attempt at PDX-LAX and PDX-DTW. Both were low-hanging fruit for them. They tried them, and they failed... Not to mention other routes that they've tried, like PDX-SAN and PDX-DFW in the past...
Last edited by FA9295 on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
tphuang
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:01 am

Great for DTW. Detroit really needs the competition. Outside of NK, I don't know who else could really provide low fare option in that market. NK will be fine on this route. Delta isn't going to lower its fares to a level that will chase off NK. It needs to continue to milk DTW to support its market share battles elsewhere.
 
CLT704
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:13 am

FA9295 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
When NK leaves, so will the DL flights. Same song with B6 in ATL the first time they came to town. It's silly to have a pissing contest like this, everyone loses money that way.

I agree. Similar situation with AA and Volaris in their upcoming CLT-GDL flights. Volaris will almost definitely end up leaving the market first at some point, and AA will soon follow after that...


So certain of Volaris impending doom in Charlotte, already? I’m optimistic that they will do alright in Charlotte imo. I’ll gladly eat my own words if they end up leaving, can’t be right on everything. Not surprised though.....this is anet and anything CLT related is deemed a failure on here. I was harrased back in early August for calling the Volaris announcement “fantastic” news. Oh well.
 
CLT704
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:14 am

CLT704 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
When NK leaves, so will the DL flights. Same song with B6 in ATL the first time they came to town. It's silly to have a pissing contest like this, everyone loses money that way.

I agree. Similar situation with AA and Volaris in their upcoming CLT-GDL flights. Volaris will almost definitely end up leaving the market first at some point, and AA will soon follow after that...


So certain of Volaris impending doom in Charlotte, already? I’m optimistic that they will do alright in Charlotte imo. I’ll gladly eat my own words if they end up leaving, can’t be right on everything. Not surprised though.....this is anet and anything CLT related is deemed a failure on here.
 
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FA9295
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:24 am

CLT704 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
When NK leaves, so will the DL flights. Same song with B6 in ATL the first time they came to town. It's silly to have a pissing contest like this, everyone loses money that way.

I agree. Similar situation with AA and Volaris in their upcoming CLT-GDL flights. Volaris will almost definitely end up leaving the market first at some point, and AA will soon follow after that...


So certain of Volaris impending doom in Charlotte, already? I’m optimistic that they will do alright in Charlotte imo. I’ll gladly eat my own words if they end up leaving, can’t be right on everything. Not surprised though.....this is anet and anything CLT related is deemed a failure on here. I was harrased back in early August for calling the Volaris announcement “fantastic” news. Oh well.

That route is going to have a minimal O&D market, and with AA's immediate reaction to Volaris adding a flight of their own, I have a hard time believing that it'll be successful. But hey, I would be glad to see it becoming successful, I just don't think it's very realistic. The U.S.-Mexico market is already on the rapid decline due to increasing fuel costs, and many routes on the U.S.-Mexico market have recently been dropping like flies. I too, would like to see this be an exception to that, but it's highly unlikely IMO.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8472
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:33 am

beerbus wrote:
klm617 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
"Delta shows it's commitment" is pretty strong language and I would say incorrect. More like "delta is trying to run carrier off the route". Delta was fine cramming everyone in a cr9 at high fares until they hit competition. This is a defensive not offensive move!


No this is Delta being the bully that it is.


So am I to understand that DL or any other carrier just gives up market when someone enters their market?

Something like- "oh, a new carrier just entered our market, and I guess we are supposed to just let the new carrier take a significant portion of our market share"?

What would you do if you were running DL- just let someone walk in and take market share, revenue, and profits?

Please tell us how'd you react to someone entering your market, threatening your business if you were running the show?

In any other industry, the incumbent fights back- but in A.net world, I guess you're supposed to take it with a stiff upper lip.....

yeah.....go ahead, poach my customers and marketshare.....haha.


No one expecting DL to give up its market share, because the presumption is there is not enough traffic to justify even one non-stop, and the tiny niche traffic can transit thru ATL.
All posts are just opinions.
 
TW870
Posts: 1249
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:16 am

enilria wrote:
DLATL wrote:
Delta shows its commitment to DTW by making DTW-JAX mainline and 2x per day. It will be operated by 2- 737-900s Dec 22- Jan 4, then switches over to 2- MD-90s until the end of schedule. This replaces the 1x daily CRJ-900

This is actually pretty out of character for Delta. Usually they ignore ULCCs and save these sorts of retaliations for carriers like AS, B6, UA, and AA. I wonder why this route in particular set them off?


That is exactly what I thought. Being MSP based, I am always struck by how little DL reacts to ULCC growth - especially compared to NW who was willing to risk legal sanction to protect its MSP and DTW fortresses. This is an odd move, because I am guessing the local traffic has to be pretty minimal. I guess its just basic opportunism, in that they can flow westbound connections over DTW instead of ATL while undermining a competitor.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:48 am

Haha I don't think delta did anything wrong. I would do the same. It's the OP tries to make it look like this is a big commitment to DTW it's about trying to make things difficult for spirit.
 
winginit
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:00 am

klm617 wrote:
No other airlines thinks that it's major hub has to be twice the size of it's next biggest hub because that clearly not the case at UA and AA what Delta does is the Delta way because both AA and UA stay profitable by evening out their flow over all hubs giving passengers the option of a routing that fit's their needs that's not the Delta way the Delta way is if you need to connect your going to do it in ATL whether you like it or not. Delta is the only airline that runs such a lopsided network.


And Delta is wildly more profitable than either AA or UA. So you're saying Delta should dumb themselves down to their competitors? Sounds like a smart business move...
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:15 am

TW870 wrote:
Being MSP based, I am always struck by how little DL reacts to ULCC growth - especially compared to NW who was willing to risk legal sanction to protect its MSP and DTW fortresses.


When B6 started DTW-BOS service, DL changed equipment to A320s and average prices went down from $600 RT to even $180 RT, I wouldn't say Delta didn't respond. You may argue B6 technically is a ULCC.

A quick glance at Skyscanner shows DL is charging $550 RT(anecdotal) for DTW-JAX non-stop, let us see what it would be in January '19.

DTW-JAX will do very well for both DL and Spirit and DL has to find other passengers to fill DTW-ATL seats, which it will, by forcing people to transit.

The saga continues.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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klm617
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:45 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
No other airlines thinks that it's major hub has to be twice the size of it's next biggest hub because that clearly not the case at UA and AA what Delta does is the Delta way because both AA and UA stay profitable by evening out their flow over all hubs giving passengers the option of a routing that fit's their needs that's not the Delta way the Delta way is if you need to connect your going to do it in ATL whether you like it or not. Delta is the only airline that runs such a lopsided network.


And Delta is wildly more profitable than either AA or UA. So you're saying Delta should dumb themselves down to their competitors? Sounds like a smart business move...


You give Delta way too much credit my friend. If you recall Delta went into bankruptcy focusing on basing it's operations on Atlanta the only difference between now and then is the Delta has half the competition it did back then that's how Delta get's away with what it does today that it couldn't get away with before. Even using your logic Delta only became profitable after adding MSP and DTW as hubs so should that not be where the focus is then because before relying mostly on Atlanta put them into financial trouble. Remember Delta has no real viable competition at any of it's core hubs thus being able to do what ever they want to to manipulate the market and Delta is profitable today for that reason and that reason only. If they wanted to build up DTW and MSP at the expense of Atlanta that wouldn't effect their bottom line at all as they have a virtual monopoly at these airports. No other hub carrier except AA at CLT has that big a market share. Delta is profitable for that reason only not because they are some sort of corporate powerhouse. If AA and UA had the same hubs as DL then they too would likely turn the same profits.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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flymco753
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:53 pm

I took a one way fare sample for a week in Janurary. NK's avg ticket price for the second week of January is $92.05 and DL is $206. DL is obviously trying to keep their share of passengers so that it isn't a compete steal for NK, but NK is going to obviously bring in a market where people previously haven't flown due to DL's product separation, see MSY.

They coincide fine on many routes, NK is going to have 5 daily MCO flights for a few weeks at the end of November and 4x the rest of the winter season, these flights run fine alongside DL's 7x during the week and 8x weekend MCO flights. F9 and WN even do fine on the schedules they fly, but it shows how well NK and DL can run alongside each other when DL wants to separate themselves from NK to keep their share.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
winginit
Posts: 3051
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:58 pm

klm617 wrote:
You give Delta way too much credit my friend. If you recall Delta went into bankruptcy focusing on basing it's operations on Atlanta the only difference between now and then is the Delta has half the competition it did back then that's how Delta get's away with what it does today that it couldn't get away with before.


Your sentence there doesn't make grammatical sense so it's hard to understand what you're talking about, but I think your conclusion is that Delta is profitable because there's less competition in the industry. That is true, and it's also not at all unique to Delta. It's equally applicable to AA and UA.

klm617 wrote:
Even using your logic Delta only became profitable after adding MSP and DTW as hubs so should that not be where the focus is then because before relying mostly on Atlanta put them into financial trouble.


That is a completely nonsensical statement and is not at all in line with my logic. As you surely know DL was profitable long before their bankruptcy and the merger, so no they didn't only become profitable after adding MSP and DTW as hubs.

klm617 wrote:
Remember Delta has no real viable competition at any of it's core hubs thus being able to do what ever they want to to manipulate the market and Delta is profitable today for that reason and that reason only.


... once again, I think you're arguing that consolidation has lead to industry profitability, which is true. Also again, that's not unique to Delta. Some examples below:

Dominant Carrier Market Share by Largest Hub, Seats, 2018

ATL (DL): 78%
DTW (DL): 73%
MSP (DL): 71%
DFW (AA): 84%
CLT (AA): 90%
MIA (AA): 68%
IAH (UA): 77%
EWR (UA): 65%
IAD (UA): 63%

So yes, DL has market share power and influence in their core hubs... just like AA and UA.

klm617 wrote:
If they wanted to build up DTW and MSP at the expense of Atlanta that wouldn't effect their bottom line at all as they have a virtual monopoly at these airports


But why would they? ATL's geography, facility, and scale make it ideal for a whole swath of East to West connections without having to go North to DTW or MSP

klm617 wrote:
No other hub carrier except AA at CLT has that big a market share.


That's of course wrong, as is proven above.

klm617 wrote:
Delta is profitable for that reason only not because they are some sort of corporate powerhouse. If AA and UA had the same hubs as DL then they too would likely turn the same profits.


So what Delta just stumbled into their existing hub structure? They fell into their operational superiority and product consistency on accident? They make it work because they're the definition of a corporate powerhouse. Enough. It must be so exhausting to be so bitter.
 
tphuang
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:40 pm

winginit wrote:
Dominant Carrier Market Share by Largest Hub, Seats, 2018

ATL (DL): 78%
DTW (DL): 73%
MSP (DL): 71%
DFW (AA): 84%
CLT (AA): 90%
MIA (AA): 68%
IAH (UA): 77%
EWR (UA): 65%
IAD (UA): 63%

So yes, DL has market share power and influence in their core hubs... just like AA and UA.

This conveniently ignores the fact that DFW/MIA/IAH/EWR/IAD all face competition in catchment area from other airports. MIA is not even profitable for AA (based on their recent earnings calls) due to FLL pricing pressure. IAD is even more of a joke, since DCA is the preferred airport.
 
evank516
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:41 pm

They also went double to triple mainline on JFK-JAX (2x 717x, 3x on some days). Interesting enough I noticed a couple of mainline adds out of JFK that I didn't realize happened. Did you know that JFK-SAV has a daily 717 now too???
 
winginit
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:44 pm

tphuang wrote:
winginit wrote:
Dominant Carrier Market Share by Largest Hub, Seats, 2018

ATL (DL): 78%
DTW (DL): 73%
MSP (DL): 71%
DFW (AA): 84%
CLT (AA): 90%
MIA (AA): 68%
IAH (UA): 77%
EWR (UA): 65%
IAD (UA): 63%

So yes, DL has market share power and influence in their core hubs... just like AA and UA.

This conveniently ignores the fact that DFW/MIA/IAH/EWR/IAD all face competition in catchment area from other airports. MIA is not even profitable for AA (based on their recent earnings calls) due to FLL pricing pressure. IAD is even more of a joke, since DCA is the preferred airport.


... and that's Delta's fault? I'm not saying that DL isn't ATL heavy - it's financially prudent for them to be; but to say that hub market power is the only reason DL is more profitable than AA or UA is ridiculous. They've balanced that concentration in ATL by building up highly competitive hubs like JFK/LGA, LAX, and SEA yet they still turn better profits than their legacy competitors.
 
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klm617
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:53 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
You give Delta way too much credit my friend. If you recall Delta went into bankruptcy focusing on basing it's operations on Atlanta the only difference between now and then is the Delta has half the competition it did back then that's how Delta get's away with what it does today that it couldn't get away with before.


Your sentence there doesn't make grammatical sense so it's hard to understand what you're talking about, but I think your conclusion is that Delta is profitable because there's less competition in the industry. That is true, and it's also not at all unique to Delta. It's equally applicable to AA and UA.

klm617 wrote:
Even using your logic Delta only became profitable after adding MSP and DTW as hubs so should that not be where the focus is then because before relying mostly on Atlanta put them into financial trouble.


That is a completely nonsensical statement and is not at all in line with my logic. As you surely know DL was profitable long before their bankruptcy and the merger, so no they didn't only become profitable after adding MSP and DTW as hubs.

klm617 wrote:
Remember Delta has no real viable competition at any of it's core hubs thus being able to do what ever they want to to manipulate the market and Delta is profitable today for that reason and that reason only.


... once again, I think you're arguing that consolidation has lead to industry profitability, which is true. Also again, that's not unique to Delta. Some examples below:

Dominant Carrier Market Share by Largest Hub, Seats, 2018

ATL (DL): 78%
DTW (DL): 73%
MSP (DL): 71%
DFW (AA): 84%
CLT (AA): 90%
MIA (AA): 68%
IAH (UA): 77%
EWR (UA): 65%
IAD (UA): 63%

So yes, DL has market share power and influence in their core hubs... just like AA and UA.

klm617 wrote:
If they wanted to build up DTW and MSP at the expense of Atlanta that wouldn't effect their bottom line at all as they have a virtual monopoly at these airports


But why would they? ATL's geography, facility, and scale make it ideal for a whole swath of East to West connections without having to go North to DTW or MSP

klm617 wrote:
No other hub carrier except AA at CLT has that big a market share.


That's of course wrong, as is proven above.

klm617 wrote:
Delta is profitable for that reason only not because they are some sort of corporate powerhouse. If AA and UA had the same hubs as DL then they too would likely turn the same profits.


So what Delta just stumbled into their existing hub structure? They fell into their operational superiority and product consistency on accident? They make it work because they're the definition of a corporate powerhouse. Enough. It must be so exhausting to be so bitter.


I don't see ORD, DEN, PHX, PHL, SFO, SLC or LAX on your list. Show all the data not just the data the conflicts with my statement. No other carrier has the dominance at their hubs that Delta does.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:56 pm

winginit wrote:
tphuang wrote:
winginit wrote:
Dominant Carrier Market Share by Largest Hub, Seats, 2018

ATL (DL): 78%
DTW (DL): 73%
MSP (DL): 71%
DFW (AA): 84%
CLT (AA): 90%
MIA (AA): 68%
IAH (UA): 77%
EWR (UA): 65%
IAD (UA): 63%

So yes, DL has market share power and influence in their core hubs... just like AA and UA.

This conveniently ignores the fact that DFW/MIA/IAH/EWR/IAD all face competition in catchment area from other airports. MIA is not even profitable for AA (based on their recent earnings calls) due to FLL pricing pressure. IAD is even more of a joke, since DCA is the preferred airport.


... and that's Delta's fault? I'm not saying that DL isn't ATL heavy - it's financially prudent for them to be; but to say that hub market power is the only reason DL is more profitable than AA or UA is ridiculous. They've balanced that concentration in ATL by building up highly competitive hubs like JFK/LGA, LAX, and SEA yet they still turn better profits than their legacy competitors.


No but stop trying to make people believe that it is some sort of powerhouse forward thinking airlines. It does what it does because it can because it exploits it's hubs to the max something UA and AA can not do. Paint the true picture not just the picture you want people to see because you have some vested interest in Delta. You talk about truth but you have a very hard time presenting at times because of the selective data you use to prove your points. Half truths are the same as no truth remember that. The only reason Atlanta is financially prudent to them is because there is no real competition that they have to fend off at it's core hubs so they can operate the network the way that they do..
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
Posts: 3051
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:27 pm

klm617 wrote:
I don't see ORD, DEN, PHX, PHL, SFO, SLC or LAX on your list. Show all the data not just the data the conflicts with my statement. No other carrier has the dominance at their hubs that Delta does.


So here's the thing... you're wrong, and I'll explain why using data.

For the sake of being thorough, for this analysis we'll use the Top 7 hubs per carrier measured by annual seats for 2018. Once you go deeper than seven you start to run into hubs that the airline themselves wouldn't identify as such (ie BOS for UA). I did not cherry pick these hubs - they are cut and dry the seven largest per airline based on the quantity of seats they deploy. That being the case, the hubs I'll incorporate here are below:

AA: DFW - CLT - ORD - MIA - PHL - PHX - LAX
DL: ATL - MSP - DTW - SLC - JFK - LAX - LGA
UA: ORD - IAH - EWR - DEN - SFO - IAD - LAX

From there I'll show both the seat share by carrier by identified hub and then at the end of the day spit out a weighted average to identify hub concentration by seat share again for the full year 2018 schedule.

AA:
DFW 84%
CLT 90%
ORD 35%
MIA 68%
PHL 71%
PHX 46%
LAX 19%
Weighted Average: 54%

DL:
ATL 78%
MSP 71%
DTW 73%
SLC 69%
JFK 27%
LAX 16%
LGA 41%
Weighted Average: 51%

UA:
ORD 45%
IAH 77%
EWR 65%
DEN 43%
SFO 44%
IAD 63%
LAX 14%
Weighted Average: 45%

So there you have it. Weighted for size, AA has a higher hub 'dominance' than DL. Your statement is incorrect. While DL does indeed have some share power in their three largest hubs, they offset that by hubbing competitive airports.

It's worth pointing out that as the cutoff here is seven hubs I didn't include SEA even though DL would obviously consider that a hub. Including SEA which would drive DL's weighted average down from 51% to 48% given they only have 23% seat share in SEA. Disagree with my analysis here? Then bring your own data to the table.

klm617 wrote:
No but stop trying to make people believe that it is some sort of powerhouse forward thinking airlines.


No convincing needed from me. The industry recognizes that Delta is both a powerhouse and forward thinking airline, and that includes AA and UA executives as well as the analysts who follow the industry day in and day out. Whether or not you refuse to acknowledge what the industry has accepted is irrelevant.
Last edited by winginit on Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
eraugrad02
Posts: 720
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:40 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
I don't get the 'shows its commitment' language. That's corporate-tool speak that critical readers will dismiss immediately.

That said, Jacksonville airport statistics show DL as the #1 carrier at JAX, ahead of #2 AA by about 10%. One can't be surprised that they're defending their position, be it more flights from ATL or DTW.

http://www.flyjacksonville.com/PDFs/tra ... report.pdf

It's clear that klm617 has no grasp of cost optimization functions (bigger planes can be cheaper per seat) nor scheduling optimization (ATL has way more destinations and frequencies, and JAX-ATL far more frequency than JAX-DTW). His rants show his lack of competence on the issue.

While I was in college at Embry-Riddle, I worked for ACA in late 90s - early 2000s. Back then Delta had 767-300, L1011's, and even some MD-11. Why? JAX was the number 1 medallion city. They needed all the fc seats they could get there.

Cheers,
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5252
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Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:46 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I don't see ORD, DEN, PHX, PHL, SFO, SLC or LAX on your list. Show all the data not just the data the conflicts with my statement. No other carrier has the dominance at their hubs that Delta does.


So here's the thing... you're wrong, and I'll explain why using data.

For the sake of being thorough, for this analysis we'll use the Top 7 hubs per carrier measured by annual seats for 2018. Once you go deeper than seven you start to run into hubs that the airline themselves wouldn't identify as such (ie BOS for UA). That being the case, the hubs I'll incorporate here are below:

AA: DFW - CLT - ORD - MIA - PHL - PHX - LAX
DL: ATL - MSP - DTW - SLC - JFK - LAX - LGA
UA: ORD - IAH - EWR - DEN - SFO - IAD - LAX

From there I'll show both the seat share by carrier by identified hub and then at the end of the day spit out a weighted average to identify hub concentration by seat share again for the full year 2018 schedule.


AA:
DFW 84%
CLT 90%
ORD 35%
MIA 68%
PHL 71%
PHX 46%
LAX 19%
Weighted Average: 54%

DL:
ATL 78%
MSP 71%
DTW 73%
SLC 69%
JFK 27%
LAX 16%
LGA 41%
Weighted Average: 51%

UA:
ORD 45%
IAH 77%
EWR 65%
DEN 43%
SFO 44%
IAD 63%
LAX 14%
Weighted Average: 45%

So there you have it. Weighted for size, AA has a higher hub 'dominance' than DL. Your statement is incorrect. While DL does indeed have some share power in their three largest hubs, they offset that by hubbing competitive airports.

It's worth pointing out that as the cutoff here is seven hubs I didn't include SEA even though DL would obviously consider that a hub. Including SEA which would drive DL's weighted average down from 51% to 48% given they only have 23% seat share in SEA. Disagree with my analysis here? Then bring your own data to the table.

klm617 wrote:
No but stop trying to make people believe that it is some sort of powerhouse forward thinking airlines.


No convincing needed from me. The industry recognizes that Delta is both a powerhouse and forward thinking airline, and that includes AA and UA executives as well as the analysts who follow the industry day in and day out. Whether or not you refuse to acknowledge what the industry has accepted is irrelevant.



You're playing games with the numbers agasin LAX is not a hub for Delta.

Core hubs Delta ATL, DTW, MSP, JFK, LGA and SLC
Core hubs American CLT, PHL, MIA, ORD, DFW and PHX
Core hubs for UA DEN, SFO, ORD , IAH, IAD and EWR

And I believe your SLC numbers are wrong Delta's market share there is more than 69%
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
evank516
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:49 pm

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I don't see ORD, DEN, PHX, PHL, SFO, SLC or LAX on your list. Show all the data not just the data the conflicts with my statement. No other carrier has the dominance at their hubs that Delta does.


So here's the thing... you're wrong, and I'll explain why using data.

For the sake of being thorough, for this analysis we'll use the Top 7 hubs per carrier measured by annual seats for 2018. Once you go deeper than seven you start to run into hubs that the airline themselves wouldn't identify as such (ie BOS for UA). That being the case, the hubs I'll incorporate here are below:

AA: DFW - CLT - ORD - MIA - PHL - PHX - LAX
DL: ATL - MSP - DTW - SLC - JFK - LAX - LGA
UA: ORD - IAH - EWR - DEN - SFO - IAD - LAX

From there I'll show both the seat share by carrier by identified hub and then at the end of the day spit out a weighted average to identify hub concentration by seat share again for the full year 2018 schedule.


AA:
DFW 84%
CLT 90%
ORD 35%
MIA 68%
PHL 71%
PHX 46%
LAX 19%
Weighted Average: 54%

DL:
ATL 78%
MSP 71%
DTW 73%
SLC 69%
JFK 27%
LAX 16%
LGA 41%
Weighted Average: 51%

UA:
ORD 45%
IAH 77%
EWR 65%
DEN 43%
SFO 44%
IAD 63%
LAX 14%
Weighted Average: 45%

So there you have it. Weighted for size, AA has a higher hub 'dominance' than DL. Your statement is incorrect. While DL does indeed have some share power in their three largest hubs, they offset that by hubbing competitive airports.

It's worth pointing out that as the cutoff here is seven hubs I didn't include SEA even though DL would obviously consider that a hub. Including SEA which would drive DL's weighted average down from 51% to 48% given they only have 23% seat share in SEA. Disagree with my analysis here? Then bring your own data to the table.

klm617 wrote:
No but stop trying to make people believe that it is some sort of powerhouse forward thinking airlines.


No convincing needed from me. The industry recognizes that Delta is both a powerhouse and forward thinking airline, and that includes AA and UA executives as well as the analysts who follow the industry day in and day out. Whether or not you refuse to acknowledge what the industry has accepted is irrelevant.



You're playing games with the numbers agasin LAX is not a hub for Delta.

Core hubs Delta ATL, DTW, MSP, JFK, LGA and SLC
Core hubs American CLT, PHL, MIA, ORD, DFW and PHX
Core hubs for UA DEN, SFO, ORD , IAH, IAD and EWR

And I believe your SLC numbers are wrong Delta's market share there is more than 69%


LAX is indeed a hub for Delta as identified on Delta.com.
 
winginit
Posts: 3051
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: DL goes double daily mainline on DTW-JAX

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:50 pm

klm617 wrote:

You're playing games with the numbers agasin LAX is not a hub for Delta.

Core hubs Delta ATL, DTW, MSP, JFK, LGA and SLC
Core hubs American CLT, PHL, MIA, ORD, DFW and PHX
Core hubs for UA DEN, SFO, ORD , IAH, IAD and EWR


First and foremost, your statement is nonsensical. Delta always refers to LAX as a hub.

You don't get to say what is and isn't a Delta hub - they do, and here's a quote from their CEO:

"Nearly 10 years ago, we made a commitment to be LA's premier, premium airline. Today, LAX is one of the most important hubs in our network where we operate more than 170 daily flights and connect more passengers to our partner airlines than anywhere else in the U.S.,"

Secondly, even if I exclude LAX from all three carriers AA is still ahead. The weighted averages shakes out per the below ex-LAX

AA: 63%
DL: 61%
UA: 53%

So your point is moot, and your statement was false. I look forward to your correction.

klm617 wrote:
And I believe your SLC numbers are wrong Delta's market share there is more than 69%


Oh yeah? You think my numbers are wrong do ya? Does your vast amount of data lead you to that conclusion? Let's see it then - here's mine:

SLC, Seat Share, full year 2018 per OAG:

DL: 69%
WN: 11%
AA: 6%
UA: 5%
AS: 3%
B6: 3%
F9: 2%

Just because you 'believe' something doesn't make it true, as I think we've learned in this thread and many others. Back your inclinations with data or keep them to yourself.
Last edited by winginit on Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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